THE DIALOGUE Between the Pope and a Fanatick CONCERNING AFFAIRS IN ENGLAND REVIVED LONDON Printed for John Kidgell at the Atlas in Cornhill MDCLXXXI Advertisement to the Reader THe Dialogue between the Pope and a Phanatick c. is a Pamphlet of such a pernicious design that I am sure all honest men will have the last aversion for it and certainly the Author of it whoever he be must be a Man of the most hardened effrontery in the World It is a perfect resolution to attempt the change of the present Government by putting the whole Nation into a Flame and to be sure nothing less than a Romish Constitution will serve his turn that durst to write so impudent a Book and so scandalously reflecting upon the King the Parliament the Church and the People of England This is to lay open to you the grossness of it and to shew you the subtle artifices he makes use of whereby to insinuate himself into the minds of the Easie and Credulous and to gain over Proselytes to him But though all his aims are to raise heats and divisions among us yet I hope we shall be so wise as to Counterplot his Stratagems and defeat him in his Politicks and the more He and such Turbulent Spirits that are like himself shall indeavour to irritate and provoke us by all the ways they can invent to Clashings and mutinies within our selves so by degrees to bring us up to a Civil-VVar again as in forty one I say the more these things shall be indeavoured by men of such ill and destructive Principles to the good of the State the more we shall make it our chief business and Study to live in peace and in Brotherly Love and kindness one towards another This is the readiest way to dash all their designs in pieces and to keep our selves secure from the effect of their wicked and industrious malice against us let us then take up unanimously the saying of the Poet Nulla salus Bello Pacem te poscimus omnes and be quiet in spight of all their vigorous attempts to make us otherwise holding fast our Faith in the Established Religion and maintaining a steady Loyal and constant obedience to the King whom God Almighty long preserve to rule over us I am to inform you that there have been two Impressions of this Dialogue one of three sheets and a half the other of two sheets and a half and that none may be deceived and think I have injured him by misquoting I must tell you I only saw the latter of them and I have follow'd those figures in directing you to him And here according to Mr. Hobbes's train of thoughts I cannot but take notice how fast and how many of such a base Pamphlet as this shall be bought up when perhaps several others that are writ with truth and honesty and a generous design to do the Nation publick service shall scarce ever be inquired after Methinks it is but an ill omen and that the Generality of mens minds want a good Establishment But if we were but once well settled and firmly resolved junctis viribus to oppose our Common Enemy we should quickly see the plotting Jesuit would fly away from us like a wild Colt in a pasture at the sight of a Bridle or a Halter An Answer to the Dialogue between the Pope and a Phanatick c. Hodg. RAlph How is' t The Greeting How goe all squares in this world Ralph ' Troth not well I think the Devil 's in the shuffling of the Cards Hodg. What because you can get ne're a Court one to turn up trump yet Ralph Thou say'st right I can see ne're a good Face in the whole pack for me Hodg. O ho Ralph thou must wait thy time I warrant thee promotion before thou dy'st if thou wilt observe my method Ralph Why Ay That 's it I would be at indeed but I want your pregnant parts and that reaching diving head-piece of yours Thou hast got a trouling fancy Ah Hodge what a Prince should I be and I thy Abilities thy pate is just like an old Womans Leather Chaps that have lost their grinders and is troubled with the Palsie so far that it never lies still but is perpetually working and there 's always some good coming on 't too Hodg. Why ye Rogue you how dost think that is reading What an eâ—cellent thâ—â—â— reading is reading reading man has gain'd it since this damnable Popish Plot has been discovered there have come out so many notable good and bad Books on all sides that I vow to thee I am become sublime like a Philosopher can hold out pro and con with the best of them and if I pleas'd could make this pass for a meer sham plot on the Papists part and effectually turn it over and cast it upon the Presbyterians Ah Ralph The world should see with half an eye i'faith they were all in 't for Cakes and Ale had I but once a mind to it Ralph Why hark you hark you Hodge is not the Popish Plot over yet I thought only the Presbyterian was now on foot we have had no talk of the other in our parts this I know not how long â—â—ey'd fain â—ssess our â—â—ads with 〈◊〉 years of 〈◊〉 c. to â—â—ake us forâ—â— these of â—â— 80 c. All our Fears and Jealousies of late have been lest we were running post to the years of Forty one and those times and I 'm sure that has seem'd to be the design of most our Pamphlets for these two Months at least Hodg. Nay then I perceive thou understand'st nothing why so things should be carryed you Fool you if ever people mean to have their Designs take effect VVhat would you have them plot and tell too Ralph No but as I would not have them such Fools if they were plotting as to tell so neither ought they on the other hand to be such Villains such Devils Incarnate as to hatch and hatch on and in the mean time by such confounded lying Anticipations to make us believe they are innocent and that those who really are so are most notoriously guilty Hodg. VVhoo that 's nothing with the Papists that man deserves a thousand Gibbets and the Eternal Torments of a Spanish Inquisition that won't lye and swear Ay and damn himself too if he should be put to 't for the promotion of any good Roman Catholick Cause â—â—ousands 〈◊〉 rather â—â—sent to â—â—nn themâ—â—â—es than â—â—ay their â—â—se Ralph O Lord bless us all you scare me why will any man knowingly be willing to damn his Soul for the triflle of any earthly Cause in this World Hodg. Ay Ay there be thousands that will rather than have their Cause betray'd what a goodly piece of business is' t for a man designedly upon a publick account and for the sake of Religion For it is nothing the Pope can release them when he pleases to run his Soul into Hell-sire when he
's sure to be catalogued for a Martyr and Saint here immediately and after a little frying with the Devil and so not worth the speaking of shall with the least whistle imaginable of his holy and merciful Father the POPE be releast out of those Torments and sent to rights up to Heaven and made a seven-fold more glorious Star in Paradise O Ralph this is the way to gain well in both Worlds Ralph Much good may do 'em with their penny-worths I will never envy them their imaginary Felicity my good Genius make me plain honest and simple I say and let them be crafty intriguing and be damn'd if they will Hodg. Thou say'st well and like a Christian Ralph Down-right honesty very unfashionable now a-days and though it be an unfashionable thing now a-days this down-right-honesty yet I had rather undecently go to Court without my Perriwig than I would appear there brave and gallant and be forced to play the doublets of a Jonathan and a Judas Ralph I think so o' my Conscience but prythee now why dost use that Unmanly Expression can no body be a Friend there unless they are Treacherous too and supplanting Hodg. Troth hardly that design greatness and as the word is to make any considerable figure in White-Hall Ralph Oh strange Hodg. They live by tripping up one anothers heels He that has the largest and most mysterious Politick fetches in him that can Countermine smoothly and manage his own private designs with the slyest and most insinuating Artifice and Address is most likely to be THE man at Court How Courtiers are like meer Peggs Ralph Then Courtiers are just like meer Peggs Hodg. For all the World The One is driven out by the Greater Force of the other and he 's fast in for a while till a stronger comes and bolts at him and thrusts him out of his place Ralph Good lack but well as we were talking before must not we believe the Books that are every day coming out and proving it to us as plain as the Nose on our Faces that the Presbyterians at the least have two Hands and a Foot in This that they call the horrid Popish Plot Hodg. I know not Somewhat ticklish to speak any thing well of Phanaticks for it 's a ticklish thing to speak the least word that may seem incling to favour them They say they have suck'd all their poison from the Jesuits and are now grown up to be such Masters in improvement that they out-shoot their Fathers in their own principles two Barrs and a half Ralph Indeed so they are look'd upon to be most pestilent Enemies both to Church and State But how far they are concern'd in this Plot methinks I can't yet discover and I tell you but so if they are in 't they are the Devil and all at managing their designs That they should n't be yet once trapped all this time Hodg. Come I know not it may be I may be counted one of their Flock in having so charitable an Opinion of them as to this matter but I can't help it and I must say Not sufficient yet prov'd to make Persons believe they are in this Plot. that nothing has been proved upon 'em yet sufficient to make me believe any such thing against them and to tell you truly my thoughts of them at this present I do believe they never generally speaking for you know there are some bad people of all perswasions and let them that are so whoever they be If they be may they all suffer that deserve it suffer in Gods name as they shall be detected I say they never carried themselves more peaceably and with greater guard and circumspection over all their words than now since the Noise of this most Hellish Plot But if any of them can be justly accused for covert evil Actions in the least tending to the disturbance of the peace and quiet of the State fiat Justitia currat lex I wish with all my heart so impartial am I not one of the really guilty may escape their deserved punishment Ralph Why then mark me Thou art either very obstinate and hardened in thy Unbelief or else hast never met with those Pamphlets that I have read within these few days Hodg. I think I am as easie of belief as thou art of things that may rationally be believed And to make it out to thee that I am so You shall see if any body can but half so clearly prove upon the Presbyterians the third part of what has been fairly and undenyably proved upon the Papists witness their own confessions after tryal of a most Treasonable and bloudy design against the Kings most Sacred Person and to alter the Religion established by Law and to Subvert the Government I say if any of all this can be proved upon them you shall see I will as readily believe them as villainous Traytors as the blackest yet that e're have suffer'd But do y' think I 'll pin my Faith upon the Sleeve of every scandalous idle Pamphlet that is writ by some of their kept hirelings for that purpose only to amuse the World and if it be possible to set us altogether by the Ears Ralph Is that their design to divide us among our selves The main drift of the Dialogue between the Pope and a Phanatick concerning the affairs in England Hodg. Yes yes that so we might do their drudgery for them cut our own throats out of a complying respect to 'em because we won't put them to the trouble on 't This must needs be the very drift and end of that most pernicious Pamphlet that came out lately intituled a Dialogue between the Pope and a Phanatick concerning the Affairs in England Ralph The very same Book I was going to speak of to you I read it Saturday night last and it made almost my hair stand an end to see the abominable things the Phanaticks were there guilty of Hodg. The Phanaticks 'T is an aspersing of the whole Church of England Why it is a perfect aspersing of all the Church of England man And though it seems to complement her yet in truth it is only the more foully to bespatter her with greater fineness and subtlety In my Judgment 't is one of the most abominable pieces I ever yet read Ralph How can all this be At the bottom of the Ti-Page since it is writ as he says by a hearty Lover of his Prince and Country Hodg. Ay ay the Title-page of a Book may now a dayes say any thing that 's only to make it pass more plausibly what Origen sayes to Celsus speaking of the Egyptian's sacred places of Worship may be very well applied here Mr. Blounts Anima mundi pag. 6. When you approach their sacred places saith he ye shall meet with stately groves Chapels and Temples with magnificent Gates also with variety of mysterious Ceremonies But when once you are entred and got within their Temples
ever and if they find that none of their Designs will take who can tell what dispair and rage may push 'em on to Ralph But If they should Kill the King at last wo be to them Hodg. I know where you are To get the King cut off they 'd venture a Massacre but alas they value not the Parliaments threats a Rush No no if they could but by any means get the King once assassinated they 'd think it worth the adventure of a Massacre And though they turn it to the Phanaticks yet how daringly and impudently do they talk of another High-Court of Justice and quote the late sad and dreadfull president for an Instance and because we have had some of the Traitors legally try'd cast condemn'd and executed therefore forsooth they would fain insinuate we should not need to fear any want of Lawyers to plead for the Commons Who knows for whom the Scaffolds in Westminster-hall wait and to arraign the King Horrid The Scaffolds stand still at Westminster-Hall and who knows for whom they wait and so he goes on in such bloody Parallels that for my part This Dialogue very near to Treason if not down right Treason I dare not repeat 'em but will say this that if what he speaks there be not Treason one may go to a very insolent height before a man shall reach it Ral. Thou do'st very well Hodge for you know though it 's a Common yet it 's a true Saying That some Men can better actually steal a Horse than others may venture so much as to look on I should as soon dare to take a Leap from off the Monument as be the Author of that damn'd Book Hodg. Then he goes on and says though he may remark the hints of Providence Eag 5. or the signs of the times yet he fears the event will not prove according to his fatal suggestions and how there does he lash upon our Present Parliament Ibid. as being of the same Genius with that of forty one One would think were not he cock-sure that the Parliament should never meet again or rather that there never should be one more he durst as well have set himself at the mouth of a mounted Cannon as have discharged those base reflecting words upon 'em when how is' t possible their tempers should be known when they have not once sate yet Ral. I find Hodge thou' rt a shrew'd Dogg grown Hod. Oh h' has abus'd the Parliament in I know not how many places of his Book he calls them in page 8. the un-Educated Commons of England and it talks at a strange rate of this and the last Parliament Sayes he pag. 9. The very Burre of Popery will conjure up a Presbyterian Parliament And in pag. 13. We are secur'd of a House of Commons of our own temper for we have baffled the Gentry and Clergy and are become the grand Electors of England Vid. pag. 4. How does he laugh at our last Parliament for setting up that pittiful scare-Crow of a Vote that If the King should happen to come to any untimely death they would immediately Revenge his Blood upon all the Papists in England let me be hang'd if I don't stand like a Statue when e're I think of his superlative boldness Ral. 'T is an Audacious fellow but so they are all indeed for no doubt he 's a Jesuit or at best the spawn and breed of One but we shall unkennel the Fox afore we have done and to all discreet and understanding men make him as odious as he really deserves to be Hodg. I wish some persons Ralph would but believe what I could plainly demonstrate to them concerning them Ral. But you must never expect to convert all But proceed Hodg. Well I say this Book is all of an Entire Piece from one end to the other wherein the Author makes it his main business to take the Charge off from the POPE as much as he can the more thunderingly to Clap it upon the PHANATICK Ral. What this PLOT Hodg. Ay of Killing the King Cancelling the Laws altering the Religion and overthrowing the Government Alas The Pope a very harmless old Gentleman the Phanatick is the Devil he makes the Great God at Rome to be as poor a little harmless Devil as a Whelp new puppied But the Geneva Night-cap is the Roaring Lyon with him the Apocryphal Spawn of Bell and the Dragon the shame of humanity the scandal of Christendome the Plague of Governments the Beast and the false Prophet and his Numbers are the Locusts that came out of the bottomless Pit the perfection of Impudence Impiety and Hypocrisy p. 16. And so indeed he makes him speak all throughout just according to this Character Ral. But is not this damn'd Knavery to rail and bespatter so Hod. No no Policy to lessen the Reputation of an Enemy he that can't abuse and lye for his Cause never deserves the honour to be concerned in one A Cause Ralph is a man's Mistriss and what wouldn't you have a man bestir himself bravely for the Conquest but beside you know who says it is a lawful Policy to lessen the Reputation of an Enemy by any way in the world Stratagem is accounted one of the most commendable Excellencies belonging to War Ral. But to write so notoriously false Hod. He knows there are Easy believing Fools enow let him say what he will Ral. But prethee Hodge let me ask you what do'st think of that cruel Killing of the Archbishop in Scotland The Death of the Archbishop in Scotland discours'd on I could ne're well tell what to make on 't but 't was hush'd up methought a little too soon And here the Rogue for ought as I know speaks the truth when he says He sees a Phanatick may Murther with less Noise and greater Priviledg than a Jesuit p. 5. Hodg. Who the Case between that Archbishop and their murther of Sir Edmund-bury-God-frey here Not comparable to the killing of Sir E. B. G. is no more to be compared than Chalk is to Cheese But I don't love to revive old stories or rake in the Ashes of the Dead or I could tell you what I have heard of the Former The former was as 't is thought some private grudg but however he was kill'd by some private grudg for some Injury that they conceiv'd he had done 'em heretofore Ral. Ha was it so Hodg. 'T is thus credibly reported but I won't assert the truth on 't But the murdering of that Worthy Knight was such a piece of Villainous Treachery This to carry on the Popish plot Scarce Matchable in story that it can scarce be matched in story again and so all the Judges and indeed all England have said on 't And that was done to carry on the more securely this Hellish Plot and they shew'd us by him how they would have serv'd us all from the King to the Cobler They 'd serve us all so if
repeat it the King 's bold Proroguing and dissolving of Parliaments and again pag. 14. he says The King perversly retains that Reprobating Power of Prorogation and Dissolution and begins to learn how and when to use it Well when he has said this of the King on purpose to insinuate into him as if this was the general Clamour and voice of the People and so to stir him up against them then he comes to the people well Gentlemen here 's like to be an end of all Parliaments now for they won't do as the King would have 'em and he is sorely displeased with 'em and therefore you 'd as good ne're expect their sitting more unless you could find out some new contrivance or other and I know not what that must be for my part There 's no course to be taken as I can think of except you can distress the King and bring him into Necessities Pag. 14. That way perhaps may recover us our Parliaments for he can have no money without 'em Ibid. and this is to urge the people into an Insurrection and so into a Rebellion against their Prince and then they have us at Forty One again Ral. I am sensible now they have planted their Batteries with all the Artifice and Cunning they could devise but yet they see nothing can make us take Fire Hodg. No the Nation is resolved to be quiet let 'em Plot on to the Devil an they will Ral. Ay ay and though he sayes he has already prepared the people for Rebellion by Fears and Jealousies of Arbitary Power Pag. 12. yet he 'll find himself cursedly mistaken Hod. In the next place Next is the Chapter of Petitions he falls upon the Chapter of Petitions and there he sayes though I would not have the Nation agree in One Common Form of Prayer to God Almighty Pag. 14. for that would establish Unity and that is Hell and Damnation to him If he can to make half the Nation for 'em and half against 'em still to divide as and defeats his Stratagems indeed yet I will perswade all the Countyes of England to Combine in One Petition to the King for the Session of a Parliament And wherefore is he so Zealous for this which would very much content many of the people of England but only because he sees as yet the King does not think it fit and he 's the best Judg sure in this Case for them to meet So that he would have them be in the mean time Tumultuary and Mutinous Petitioning and Noisy disturbing the Peace of his Sacred Majesty whom like Hail fellow well met with him he terms Pag. 15. the Gentleman at White-Hall in hopes that if the King may I have his Pardon if I use another of this Authors bold Words only to shew his Impudent Irreverence shall affront the leading Petitioners the whole Association will be Obliged to take the Field in Defence of Liberty Property Pag. 15. and Petitions Ral. Ay ther 's the Point he drives at bring it but once up to another standing Army and he 'll be your most humble Servant or what you will Hodg. Well to equipoise this he sets up another Party and they Damn all Petitions to the Pit of Hell for the sitting of the Parliament and I pray what 's the Reason Why he tells you because that unless the Supream Wisdom of the King Pag. 17. contrive some more quiet or safer Method of Elections He must suffer the Eternal Affronts of Ill-humour'd Parliaments He sayes The King will never have a Parliament but what shall be affrontive ill humoured to him The plain English on't is this with submission to better Judgments That if this be not all the other Future will be Affrontive Ill-humoured Parliaments to the King and he must eternally suffer their Affronts if he can't find out a way to take the priviledg of Electting from those people to whom it hereditarily belongs and invest himself with it and make it become a peculiar Prerogative to him Whether this be not a perswading of the King to an Invasion on One of the Fundamental Rights of his People I will not peremptorily Determine Therefore were his Advice to be follow'd the people should no longer injoy their right to elect Members but it should wholly rest in the King But I do think if the King should in his supream Wisdom take this Method the House of Commons could never be right called the Peoples Representative and when ever they should go up to offer him any Bill of Supply their Speaker could not say The whole Commons of England present Your Majesty with so much Money The Consequence of that c. as Now it is generally said upon such an Occasion Ral. Why all this is spoke by an honest Cavalier Pag. 16. Man One that as the Pope Damns for a Heretick his Brother Phanatick Blasphemes for a Papist but though the next Successor to the Crown should come from Rome or Leyden he would never be a Rebel nor should all the Power or Prerogative upon Earth ever Oblidge him to be either Papist or Presbyterian He is a friend to Bishop and Liturgies decent Rites and Ceremonies in publick Worship Hodg. Ay but he is a Friend to all this of the Author's Make and Constitution I believe a Right honest Cavalier such as he would fain have him Represent would never have mentioned such an Oration vvhich he sayes vvas made by Mecaenas to Augustus Caesar wherein he advised him to Assume the Monarchy The Oration of Mecaenas to Augustus Caesar cited for this purpose but wisely suggested to him That he should not make his sudden Passions and single Will Pag. 17. the Laws and Edicts of his Empire but to provide a Graver Senate Pag. 18. that should be his Grand Council in the Important Affairs of Government a Consulting with whom would add Weight and Solemnity to his Imperial Sanctions but then he added this Politick Caution and this he principally intends and hints at by this Story That he should never grant the People that dangerous Favour to Elect the Members of this Senate and it seems our People of England have had this dangerous Favour a very long time and I believe would be very loath to have it taken away from them Now vvithout some good substantial Reasons for it For then sayes he Your Empire will be exposed to popular Factions and Tumults every Election will ferment the Humours of the Populacy The Government of Rome and Ours not all one But that Government and ours I hope were not both alike and occasion such Convulsions in the State that you will never be secure of any Safety at home or Glory abroad The Application I shall not concern my self with Ral. No it is easy enough for any one to make without your further Expository Comments But hark ye Hodge Do'st mind his Closing Touch Hodg. Yes He