It shall be but as some of you haue done before vs. Let the Recordes be searched Secondly when the particulars shal be by you or any your side produced we shall giue in a reasonable answere Mal-con Nay sir which is more M. Henrie Barrow drawing a Description of the true Church when he comes to deliuer the Canons of discipline he in that sheete of Paper doth after the Excommunication place that Canon of the Apostle in 2. Thess. 3.15 Yet count him not as an enimie but admonish him as a brother because he beleeued that excommunication was a power to edification not to destruction Your Congregation then some yeares after his death do reprint it putting to it the olde date corrupting his method falsifying his Will by placing the sayd Canon before Excommunication because after the casting out you would rid your handes of all tendernes and compassion as delighting in nothing more then in bitternesse against the soule distressed The Apostle can say Though it be but a mans Couenant or Will when it is confirmed no man doth abrogate it or addeth any thing thereto But you haue done that which No man that is no honest man would doe in so causing his Will to speake contrary to his meaning Flyer Mal-content I cannot beleeue that thou sayest Mal-con But I beleeue it and the Copies will prooue it Besides that I know him which reprooued that euill at the comming foorth of the second Aedition at A. at the charges of Arthur Bâ—llet Whereas the first was printed at D. where other Writings also of the same man were then printed But in a word M. Flyer there be diuers of vs are minded eare long to leaue the Church of England but with these prouisoes First to ioyne with your congregation we dare not and that because of the many bloody vnrepentant censures lying vpon the neck of your Church as M. G. Io. hath layde downe plainely in his Booke against your Societie Secondly in departing the Church of England We are minded notwithstanding to hold many of them Disciples to the true Christ and so doubtlesse wee shall finde some succour from them Flyer I thought Mal-content thou wouldst discouer thine hypocrisie Thy flying from Babel shal be yet with applauding some in Babel that so out of Babel thou mayst haue some maintenaunce I see that thou art in the gall of bitternesse and in the band of iniquitie Either hold the Church of England as the sayd Protestant doth for a true Church with some wantes for which notwithstanding the Church is not to be forsaken or hold with vs. A true Church it was neuer or if some time it were it now is no more a true Church then y e Church of Rome Halt not therefore betweene two opinions If Iehouah be y e Lord follow him but if Baal be the Lord then follow him Mal-con Maister Flyer I neither hold your side for Iehouah nor the Church of England for Baal But for your side I hold it as an Errour on the right hand and the other side as an Errour on the left hand In mâ—dio quorum consistâ—â— virtus In midst whereof I stand and betweene which I meane to walke Flyer Mal-content thou wouldst faine â—alke betweene the barke and tree and â—ot be pincht Thou wouldst be one â—ith vs as afore if the King would â—iue thee leaue and now we are as an â—rrour on the right hand Againe thou 〈◊〉 one of these dayes without the â—inges leaue take leaue of the Popish Antichristian gouernement and yet iustifie many bearing that marke of the Beast in hand forehead for Disciples of the true Christ. Iwis thou holdes thou knowes not what and they be seduced that swallow thy doctrine But be thou and some as yee shall I haue no small hope that thousands in England that now stand on the tiptoe will ere long fall flatly on our side Heare you not of Teachers and people in the farthest partes of Lincolne-shire and Nottingham-shire c. who are flatly already seperated Mal-con I heard of it th' other day by a London-Preacher who sorroweth much for a Gentlewoman of place who is sayd to be absolutely gone from the Church But as I know some of them Teachers and specially him that is sayd there to haue baptized one of their Children in a Barne so my hope is that their Seperation is not so far as yours but one with that which I purpose Flyer You purpose you know not what Besides that moe and new â—indes of Seperation will cause the 〈◊〉 Protestant to be more stiffe in his standing and the Time-seruer will thereby take occasion to stout at vs all Mal-con Then come backe vnto vs. Flyer Nay come you forwarde vnto vs and so become more perfect But stay is not this Grauesend hard by Mal-con It is Flyer Then be we husht for feare some ouer-heare vs that may giue intelligence to the crabbed Searchers For the trueth is I am with the next wind to goe to Sea and I feare none beere so much as that kind of cattle and busy-body prying into this and peering into that that a man can hardly haue a Swordes scabberd lined with French-crownes bowed as D. Arthur Billet had or an olde clumperton paire of Shooes whose soles be lyned with Angels as my brother George Clayton the Brick-layer had but they will either by a priuie search finde them or the feare a man shal be put vnto while they be about these will be so terrible as a sicknesse worse then the Sea-sicknesse will sodainely surprize him Mal-con Were it not at the first you denied coÌ„munion with me in Prayer which makes me suspect you disdaine all fellowship with me at Table I would willingly inuite you to a ioynt of Meate and a pint of Wine before our parting Flyer For that sir it is but felowship Ciuill whereas the other is Spirituall We may eate drinke with a Turke but not pray with a Turke Mal-con Will it please you then sir to take a Dinner with me Flyer I will and I thanke God for it who will haue Elias fed if but by the ministerie of an vncleane Rauen. Mal-con Doe you then hold me vncleane and yet the Rauen I take it was not vncleane till he was dead Flyer In your present standing you are dead in sinne and you and all your actions vncleane Mal-con Are we so Then doubtlesse the Cooke is vncleane and the Victuals vncleane and you by eating them should be vncleane and therefore go shake your eares for your Dinner And if you doe further prouoke mee it is like I shall make the Searchers acquainted with you and your cleane Nobles And yet they being coyned by men vncleane they shal be vncleane also Packe and be quiet for feare I prouoke some to shaue you of all your vncleannesse THE SECOND DIALOGVE Betweene Flyer and Anabaptist Anabapt HOW farre do you trauaile sir Flyer No further then Middleburghe to night Anabapt You come newly from Sea doe you
not Flyer Uerily I doe And happy it was for the Shippe as a Marchants factour could lately say that I was in it for had not I longed earnestly after Zion and according to Gods decree were predestinated before all worldes to come safely vnto the true Church planted in these partes as the Factor could say all the Ship had been cast away Anabapt What true Church is it sir which you meane is planted in these partes Flyer Certaine Englishmen separated from the Whore of Babilon I meane the Church in England Anabapt FroÌ„ the Protestants Church meane you Flyer The very same My heart leapes to thinke how farre I am got from the skirtes of that proude bloody Fornicatrix Are you a Duch-man that you can parlie so in English Anabap. I am and sometimes was a member of the Dutch-church that is in Norwich But God opening mine eyes to see the falsehoode of that Church I forsooke it and came so into these partes to liue with a Congregation purely christian Flyer What with our people I pray you Anabapt There be certaine English people of vs that came out from the Brownistes Flyer From the Brownistes Whya they be the people that I come to But I pray you let me admonish you of one thing Leaue that tearme of Brownist for they despise Brownes standing I tell you Anabapt Yea they despise his present standing for that he is returned to the Church of England but meane time they haue slapt vp his Vomite and maintaine the blind Schisme he made from that Church Flyer Call you it a blind Schisme Blind they be not that see the Holy thinges they see Nor Schisme is it but a faythfull departure from Babel Anabapt Babel You know not what â—abel meanes for they be a people ouer head and eares in Babel so farre from being fled from it Flyer Prooue that and I le leaue my Religion Anabapt You leaue it You may say if God will giue you the Grace to leaue it For it is a peculiar Grace to leaue Sodome and Aegipt spiritually so called Flyer It is trueth you say But I pray you Of what Religion may you be Anabapt Of the true Christian Religion commonly tearmed Anabaptisme TroÌ„ our baptizing of people againe comming from the false Church whereof your Congregation is a maine arrogant member Flyer I tremble to thinke that you should dare so to blaspheme the Tabernacle pight of God and not of man Anabapt Pight of the Diuell and the Antichristian Man Let mee spurre you one question Are you Baptized Flyer That I am I thanke God Anabapt Who Baptized you Flyer A Minister of the English Church And I thanke God it was done with a Sermon and without the Crosse in the forehead Anabap. Are the Ministers of England true Ministers Flyer No they be slaues to Antichrist in all his inuentions Anabapt Marke what a foole you be neither call I you foole Vnaduisedly You seperate from Babel and yet iustifies the ministeriall action of the Ministers of Babel Can they be Antichristian Ministers and their essentiall ministeriall actions Christian Hath Christ appoynted any limme of the Beast to keepe his Signet and to seale his people with Baptisme Hath Christ giuen power vnto any to Baptize to whom he sayth not first Goe and teach Will the Ministers of Antichrist seale vnto the true Christ Flyer Though they and their places be Antichristian yet the Baptisme may be Christian. Anabap. Once againe if happily God may bring you out of that misterie of iniquitie Was the Minister him selfe first a true Christian before he entred into that function Flyer No for he was a lim of that Beastes body Anabap. Did his ministerie then make him a true Christian Flyer At no hand being a Minister in the body of the same Beast Anabap. He being neither a true Minister nor so much as a true Christian and your selfe also a member of the same Antichrist How could you by his Baptisme become a true Christian Out of a bitter Fountaine can there come any sweete Water As the first fruites are are not also the branches Flyer I was no true Christian then nor it any true Baptisme but now being separated from them as these of the Ten Tribes which came vnto Iuda My Baptisme is good as their Circumcision then became good Anabapt English-man the Comparison is not alike They of Israel were commaunded to circumcise but no Minister of Antichrist is commaunded to Baptize The Israelites were a people that had been a true constituted Church but as your selues say England was neuer constituted of or to the Lord. Thirdly any Israelite might circumcise his Childe but in your opinion a Preacher of the word may onely doe that Till therefore you can prooue that the English Minister did but the commaundement of God in Baptising as the Israelite did it in Circumcising you may goe with the Beastes marke in your forehead as old and young in your Church carry it But come wee to another poynt â—â—e you hold that Christ which your â—â—iptian Priestes did teach you Flyer Yes verily and by Gods helpe so I will Anabap. And yet you are come out of Babel Can they that teach people dayly the true Christ be Ministers of Antichrist Are they not true ministers that teach and seale to the true Christ Or if they 〈◊〉 false Ministers which you graunt must not their principall felsehood â—â—en lie first in teaching a false Christ and secondly in sealing to the false Christ That is the Ministers can not be Antichristian but they must direct â—â—d signe the people vnto Antichrist vnder a cullour of Christ and that onely can be the mysterie of iniquitie But another question By what â—eanes seeke ye to be one with your Christ Flyerâ— By Fayth onely which is wrought 〈◊〉 my heart by the outward ministerie 〈◊〉 the word and the inward operation 〈◊〉 Gods spirit Anabap. Silly silly Can you call these Ministers of Antichrist whom you defende for such as haue not onely aâ— you say taught you the true Christ but also lead you by the true meanes vnto that true Christ. Thus the blinde hath led the blinde and both tumble in the ditch Either make the Treâ— good and his fruite good or make it bad and his fruite bad O friend I muse not though you stand amazed I my selfe was sometimes in such 〈◊〉 strait but he that gaue me simplicitiâ— of heart gaue mee to wind out of thaâ— Laborinth Iohn could not see the mysterie of that Beast in the Apocalips till he went out into the Desart God might for your lynsi-wolsie Fayth haue cast you away in the Sea but in mercie he hath reserued you vnto a better hower He did not cast me into your way for nothing I hope foâ— a blessing though otherwise in your perishing I should become a good fauour vnto God Thou in the Heauens take the Scales away from his eyes that he may see into the end of thinges that are to be abolished
there could be no more a true Esse of the Church till from God some myraculous Ministerie should breath new life into the people as of Stones raysing vp Children vnto Abraham Anabapt A true Esse What is that I hold my life it is somewhat of the Romane beastes language Legat. arr I despise the seauen headed Monster more then you Neither care I a straw for Hebrew Greeke or Latine for thankes to his diuine Maiestie I neuer was an Uniuersity-man much lesse an Academicall Diuine or Theologue nor haue I troubled my selfe about the Beastes tongue Only as in reasoning I haue bin pressed with such a word I haue obserued it for slaying another time the Medianite with his owne sword Anabapt Fowle Heretike I would thou knew it I hate this prophane learning and language so well as thou I am a Prophet of the true Church and yet get my lyuing by making of Swordes the first calling I was trayned in Legat. ar Whia sir foole you hold the Magistrate to be onely an Ordinaunce since Christes time without the Church and that the vse of the Sword is vnlawfull You therefore in making Swordes doe vphold Bloodshed and Warres which otherwise you hold vnlawfull And so a raucke hypocrite Anabap. Sawcie princocks the Apostle hath charged vs to walke in the same calling wherein we were called to be Christians but when I was called to be a Christian I was a Sword-maker therefore in that called I ought to continue Legat. ar Gray head and greene minde by like proportion I reason thus The Apâ—stle commaundes a man to walke in the same calling a man was of when he was called to Christianitie But when I was called vnto Christianitie my calling was to keepe an Whore-house therefore being now called to be a Christian I ought yet to keepe an Whore-house Country-man take heede of him for vnder his pâ—aine habite voyde of Silke Ueluet and Pearse and yet I warrant thee of as softly English cloth as his Purse could purchase there lurketh all counterfaite dealing He would be thought most aduerse to the Romanistes and yet in the doctrines of Predestination Freewill Iustification mayne fundamentall poyntes he iumpeth one with them besides that execrable Heresie that Christ had a Corporall nature from Heauen not from vs wherevpon must necessarily follow that then he could neuer satisfie Gods iustice for vs. Anabapt Heauens-power how great is thy lenitie in bearing with such blasphemie Faythfull Proselite hanke in thine eare come to me there to night or tomorrow morning and thou shalt be inspired from aboue with power to resist all the deuises of such Charmers charme they neuer so wittily Farewell deare Proselite for I will trudge before least my eares become receptacles of his vnhallowed breathinges THE FOVRTH DIALOGVE betweene the Flyer and Legatine-arrian Legatine-arrian DEare Countryman may I be so bold as to inquire wherefore you came into these parts Flyer Good sir to speake the truth I came from the Separistes in London with full purpose to ioyne with that Church of them which is in these partes But meeting with this man as I came from Flushen where I landed and discoursing with him about Religion I verily resolued to ioyne with him and his Congregation But perceiuing by your Dialoguizing with him that all is meere foolerie to beleeue that either Hee or Brownist or Mal-content is of any true Church yea that there can be no Christian communion till a myraculous Ministerie be stirred vp of God for baptising people and calling them into Christian communion I herevpon haue giuen him the bagge Fish where he shall he shall haue no Fish of mee And therefore good sir seeing it pleased the Almightie to saue mee myraculously from seas and I perceiue it was for keeping mee to be instructed of you my humble desire is to vnderstande of you what a soule is to doe in this case there being not onely no true visible Church on the earth but also no true visible Christian I beseech you pray for mee or else I know not what shall become of mee Legat. ar Pray for you I may but pray with you I may not Prayer with one is an action of communion as for example if I should say Our Father Giue Vs this day our bread Forgiue Vs our sinnes Lead not Vs into temptation this should imply that you and I were in communion or christian fellowship But before that myraculous Ministerie as afore shall come and gather the Gentiles into such communion and Elias come for calling the Iewes there can be no such fellowship and therefore no such prayer When I come at my Chamber I will pray for you Flyer I pray you sir let me next Sabaoth day haue accesse vnto your Congregation for I doubt not but you haue some Congregation heere in Zeland Legat. ar How sillily you speake I haue all this while taught you that there is no Church nor visible Christian in the world as yet seeing no myraculous Apostles haue yet been sent to Baptize people and call them into communion and you talke of a Church Besides it is a notable badge of Antichrist for any christian Congregation vpon the Sabaoths conuention or any other time of the Churches meeting to admit of any vnbeleeuer or stranger to the fayth vnto the Pastorall exercise For is it not written in 1. Cor. 14.22 Prophecie serueth not for them that beleeue not but for them which beleeue Flyer Then I perceiue that all such as I haue left behinde me haue serued Antichrist in hypocrisie for they suffer any Infidell to come vnto their exercise of Prophecie or Preaching But my Countrimen the Flyers haue herein sinned aboue all for they permit infidelious Marchantes and others to come on the Thurseday vnto their exercise of Prophecie when ten to one by reason of some brabling canse then to be pleaded the Congregation meeteth â—ayeth and departeth without any Prayer at all or exercise of their propheticall guiâ—tes Legat. arr Propheticall guiftes Propheticall fooleries Tom Lace-seller and Abraham Pin-seller so I thinke M. Henry Barrow spoke in the Fleete must come out and spatter their meaninges and this must be called the exercise of Prophecie Flyer O excellent man of God I am sory that we be come notâ— into the tayle of Midleburghe for that will brake off our Discourse Legat. arr O prophane speach you should haue sayd into the Suburbs of Midleburghe Flyer The word Suburbs I tooke to be â— word of Latine and so of the Beastes language which made me to auoyde it Legat. ar Therein I commende your zeale For in their Translations they cannot be contented to say My God my God why hast thou forsaken me but before it they must put downe their prophane Latine Elj Elj lamasabâ—thenj Nor can be contented to say God hath sent the spirit of his Sonne to cry Father but they must turne it Abba father At Amsterdam I once checked a Preacher that is now in England for such fooleries
and he sayd that it was so in the Origenall but I will neuer beleeue it Flyer No sir these limmes of Antichrist are not to be beleeued Legat. ar Hold you there and I will assure you to become an excellent Diuine in short time But we are come vnto the Citie Where meane you to lodge Flyer I haue Letters to deliuer vnto some English-factors and they be to supply mee with necessaries But tell mee where I may find you to morrow morning and I will be early with you Legat. ar Harken then come thither early and there you shall haue me But by eight of the clocke I purpose to set towards Camphere a league of that is some three English myles and so I will teach you a Mysterie touching Christ which you neuer learned Flyer I thanke you sir and I will willingly attende THE FIFT DIALOGVE First betweene the Flyer and the Legatine-arrian secondly betweene the Legatine-arrian and the Familist Flyer GOod morrow sir are you setting on your iorney Legat. ar I am But I want meanes yet for conueying a Bundle of Listes Flyer Doe you then deale in Cloth-listes I haue heard that it is a very good Marchandize Well sir if they be no moe then these I can easily carry them vnder my Cloake Legat. ar I thanke you for it you shall so saue me a few Styphers Flyer I haue coucht them vnder my arme very well Let vs now set on our way And I pray you sir now discourse of the Christ as you last night promised Legat. ar I will If you marke all the limmes of Antichrist whether Papist or Protestant or Anabaptist you shall find them ignoraunt euery of them of the true Christ. The Papist and Protestant doe hold him God and Man So doth the Anabaptist but with a difference The first hold that he is very God essentially and very Man of man essentially Yet seeing the word Essentially seemeth to be deriued of the Beastes language I will rather vse the word Substantially Flyer And I thinke sir that that word sauours somewhat of Romulus for I remember that in their Latine Grammer there is Substantinum hic hâ—â—c hoc Legat. ar O you begin to abounde with the true Spirit that will lead you into all trueth But Country-man as the Apostle could not sayle thorow the Seas but in the Shippe whose badge was the prophaine Castor and Pollux so neither can wee sayle thorow these Discourses but in wordes stamped with the Image of the Beast Flyer O most excellent Theologue I neuer obserued that comparison Legat. ar You shall heare more excellent thinges then these How the Protestant and Papist doe hold Christ wee haue learned at home Now for the Dowper that is the Anabaptist he holdeth him very God passing through the Virgins wombe as Wind through a pipe taking nothing of our nature because then he should be a sinner but bringing a bodily substance with him from Heauen whether fetcht out of the Fathers diuine substaunce or out of the Angels spirituall substaunce or out of the Heauens substaunce they know not But the very trueth is Hee is to be held a meere Man as was Peter Paul or I Onely whereas we haue the Spirit in measure and were borne in sinne hee had the Spirit beyond measure and was borne free from sinne As for the Scriptures tâ—arming him sometimes GOD it intendeth not his Essence but his office and you know that in such respect the Magistrate is called God And herewith all let me tell you how lately in England I gaue a Magistrate the bagge I being conuented before him he beginnes to puffe he strokes vp his forehead and then sotted out this question Syrrha doe you hold that Iesus Christ is but meere man as I or an other man is To whom I answered They abuse mee and haue abused your eares that haue reported any such thing of mee Then quoth he againe doe you deny Christ to be God To whom I answered No sir I do verily beleeue that he is God Doe you so That doe I quoth I. Then quoth he thou art of mine owne Religion Fare-fall thy heart for so satisfying mee and my learned Brother here Goe thy wayes thou art an honest-man I warrant thee And so was I quickly dispatched The foolish Flat-cap thought that by my graunting Christ to be God I had meant as he meant namely God by Nature whereas I meant God by Office Flyer O notable learning rare learning Legat. ar Now sir it being meere Man that sinned it must be meere Man that must satisfie Gods iustice and therefore at first preached That the Womans seed should breake the Serpents head As also that Hee should be a Seed deriued from Abram from Dauiâ— from the Fathers which accordingly in his time came to passe and accordingly by suffring the ignominious death of the Crosse he satisfied for man the righteous dying for the vnrighteous Buâ— stay is he not some English-man that runneth after vs Flyer I thinke sir it is one of the Hydutch that passed in our Shippe An odde fellow I weene if so one could found out his Religion Legat. ar Lay your Fardle downe and that shall seeme cause of our staying But what causeth you to thinke he is of some odde Religion Flyer For that in some discourse betweene him another he seemed to conclude that the Serpent which tempted Eue was but some creeping crookednesse of mÃnde wynding from God As also that Christ and Antichrists were no reall persons but fashions of minde Legat. ar Au au I know then what he is he is a plaine Familist They teach all their rudiments to their Children by a familiar kind of Play which they tearme The Interlude of Mindes It was penned by one H. N. an Hy-dutchman who also hath left in wryting very many Bookes of that abstruse kind of learning Some of our late Brownistes are entred into that Familie I know a Weauer in Lâ—ndon he was sometimes a Clothier of Somerset-shire and after that first a Brownist then an Anabaptist now a Familist he will say that now in one quarter of an hower whilst he is in his Loome he can comprehend farre greater Reuelations of the spirit then whilst he was out of that Family he could in his whole life But say you nothing I will seeme ignorant what he is Familist Sacrament a Godt how weary I am in running after you M. Flyer Flyer I thought it was you Hans Legat. ar And you be not out of breath sir I would we might talke of Religion Familist Marry best of all and the spirit of Loue be our direction Legat. arr What Religion I pray you be you of Familist Seeing you manifest your selues to be religiously affected and secondly seeing we are out of the shot of the Magistrate I shall freely tell you what I am I am of the Holy family of Loue a Family in God and in whom God is for God is Loue. And out of this Loue there is no beeing