Selected quad for the lemma: england_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
england_n	book_n	church_n	rome_n	3,625	5	7.0618	4	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A93887	Zerubbabel to Sanballat and Tobiah: or, The first part of the duply to M.S. alias Two brethren. By Adam Steuart. Whereunto is added, the judgement of the reformed churches of France, Switzerland, Geneva, &c. concerning independants, who condemne them with an unanimous consent. Published by David Steuart. March 17. 1644. Imprimatur Ja: Cranford.; Duply to M.S. alias Two brethren. Part 1	Steuart, Adam.; Steuart, David, fl. 1644.	1645 (1645)	Wing S5494; Thomason E274_14; ESTC R209896	100,836	110

Evangelisé il nous soit Anatheme Gal. 1. Jusques La que Sainct Jehan la douceur la charitè mesme ne veut point que nous recevions en nos maisons n'y que nous saluions seulement ceux qui ne nous apportent la Sancte Doctrine de l'Evangile 7. Quant a ce qu'ils ne font aucun cas du Jugement n'y du Consentement des autres Eglises Reformées ayns le rejettent comme un Argument Humain je trouvc qu'ils ont fort peu profite en l'Escbole de Sainct Paul qui veut que nous nous submettions les uns aux aulrres en la crainte de Dieu que nous nous prevenions les uns les aultres par honneur que les esprits des Prophetes soient subjects aux Prophetes A Dieu ne plaise que nous metions en un mesrus rang les Ordonances de Dieu et les constitutions Ecclesiastiques 〈◊〉 ce que Dieu nous dit nous est une Ley invialable 〈◊〉 aux bommes Nous esprouvons toutes choses retenons ce qui est bon Pour le fonds et l'Essence de la Religion il n'y a que Dieu seul qui en puisse Orda●ner Mais quant a l'ordre Exterieur a la police de l'Eglise ce sage pere de famille se contrute de nous dere en general que tout se face en sa maison honnestement par ordre il laisse le detail a la saincte Prudence de ceux quil appelle a conduire son peuple c'est a eux lors quils sont Assembles au nom du Seigneur de le supplier ardenment de presider au milieu d'eux et de leur mettre un coeur les choses qui seront les plus expedientes pour s● gloire l'edification de ses Enfants la conduite des autres Eglises Reformees ne nous impose pas un jong necessaire ne nous peut estre proposee comme une loy infallible mais elle nous doibt servir d'Exemple que nous devons imiter si nous ny recognoissons des repugnances manifestes a la parole de Dien que s'il y a quel qu'un qui ponse estre contentieux nous a avens pas une telle constume ny aussi les Eglises de Dieu 1 Cor. 11.16 6. Nous tenons pour constant qu'il n'y a n'y doibt avoir auoune charge pour paistre conduire l'Eglise qui ne soit fondé en la parale de Dieu ainsy les charges du Ministre Pasteur Evesque Ancien Diacre sont fondèe simmediatement for mellement expressement dans la parole de Dien bien que quelques nus venlent que la charge d'Ancien telle qu'elle anjour dhuy dans les Eglises reformées n'est fondee dans l'Escriture que par analogie tirèe par consequence necessaire comme ils parleut qui au fond est un de mesme car ce qui est tiré par consequence necessaire de la St. Escriteure y est autand comme ce qui est en te●●es expres Tout cecy est conforme aux articles 29 30. de confession de Foy au il est dict que nostre Seigneur a establic'este police governement dans l'Eglise par Pasteurs Sur veillants ou Anciens diacres que les urays Pasteurs en quelque lieu qu'ils soient ont le ●esme authoritè esgale puissance s●ubs nostre Seigneur l'Archi-pasteur grand Evesque des nos ames Act. 6.4 Ephes 4.11 1 Tim. 3.1 Tit. 1.5 Math. 20.26 18 2. 2 Cor. 1.27 1 Pet. 5.3 The Iudgement of the Church of France concerning Episcapacy and Independency extracted out of Letters written to Master Buchanan by some French Ministers 1. OUr Churches have ever believed and constantly taught that the Order of Bishops it not at any hand of Divine Right 2. If some Protestant Doctors have used this terme Divine it is with the same impropriety and abuse of Language that some of the Ancients called those Canons which their Fathers had made and which themselves could at any time change and abrogate Divine Canens 3. According to the Scripture Priest and Bishop point out but one and the same Christ howsoever in divers respects one of those names which seemes to be derived from their age or yeares denotes such a gravity as befits Christs Ministers and the other expresseth their Office that is to watch over the Flock which is common to them both 4 It is as cleare as the day that in Scripture Priest and Bishop mark out one and the same Charge for there were many Bishops in the same Town Phil. 1. and the very same persons are qualified indifferently both Priest and Bishop Acts 20.1 5. So as we take it to be the surest way to hold our selves close to that Apostolique simplicity that the Church of God be governed by Pastors Antients and Deacons 6. But we understand on all hands and the Writings of the Bishops themselves make it good that they have hither-to made a Body a part distinguished from other Postors likewise that they take an Authority upon them and a superiority over the other Pastors of the Church which they will needs have to be of Divine Right Likewise that they beleeve that they alone are the Representative Church of the Nation that they challenge to themselves the cognizance and absolute disposall of all the Affaires of importance that they exercise a dominion over their Brethren whom the Forme of their Discipline hath put in a kind of subjection unto them and treate the Pastors not as their Brethren and equalls by Divine Right but as Subjects and servants which being granted it cannot be avoided but they must be accounted as those that have exercised a kind of Tyranny in the House of God and maintained the arts of Antichristianisme 7. Wherefore many of our men considering the state of the Church of England which God had delivered from the Errours and the Idolatries of the Church of Rome how notwithstanding she still retained the Pompe of Hierarchy and Ceremonies had just cause to say that the Body of the great Whore was indeed taken away but that her Vestments and Apparrell still remained with her 8. We were much joyed when we understood that things were so well fitted and disposed toward an holy Reformation in England being well assured that the power which the Bishops had usurped and which till this present was given them ought to be entirely suppressed and abolished 9. But we are much afflicted that among them that put their hand to so holy and necessary a work there there are some that passe from one Extream to another willing that every particular Church be so absolute and soveraign that it depend not upon any other for its direction nor be obliged to give an account to other Churches of its Government 10. We conceive that this is not

yet promiseth an Answer M.S. his first Answer is that the Five Ministers ayme at no separation but as their Brethren the Scots did from Prelaticall coaction A.S. If it be only from Prelaticall coaction wherefore separate they themselves from their Brethren the Scots their Sacramentall Communion and the Scots from theirs if they separate not themselves from us wherefore are they suitors for a Toleration or approbation of their Religion since ours is already tolerated and approved as appeareth in the French Italian and Spanish Churches in this Kingdome Neither are you compelled to be Actors in any thing against your Consciences as your Brethren were by Bishops M.S. He saith the Church from which the five Ministers would separate testifies a great desire to reforme Defects yet saith he those Defects are but pretended A.S. Our meaning is to reforme Defects if any there be such as we acknowledge to be in manners as amongst you also or in the administration of Discipline as may be amongst us all But as for any Defects in the principall parts of our Ecclesiasticall Discipline we see none as yet that we travell not to reforme but believe such as hee objects us in them to be rather pretended then Reall Neither can we or shall we judge them to be any other thing but pretended till he make it appeare that they are Reall Will He that we beleeve them to be Reall because that he only sayes so but it is not the first untruth has falne from his pen. M.S. He would have the Five Ministers quit the Assembly A.S. This M.S. supposes that this last Proposition crosseth my Supposition But they may stay in the Church to reforme Abuses if there be any really as it is pretended by the Independents and live out of the Assembly as many others who are no wayes their Inferiours Neither said I that I wished them to be out of the Assembly only I propounded a question whether in consequence of the publishing of their Apologie they should not resolve themselves to quit the Assembly Now courtcous and conscientious Reader be thou judge I pray thee whether this man hath answered any of my Questions yea or not which are all the main points here to be debated Quest I. Whether it had not been honester and fairer dealing to have added the Author and Licencer's Name to M.S. his Booke then to have omitted them I Affirme it 1. because it testifieth a greater sincerity especially in these Times 2. Because it makes it appear more probably to the world that it is not a Libel 3. And that it conteineth nothing against the Law 4. Because the Name of the Author giveth authority to the Book if he be either learned or honest and the omission thereof may cut off the Authority of it and bring discredit unto it especially when the Law for this effect ordaineth it to be added 5. Because when it is suppressed and the Book a Libell it giveth too much adoe to the Magistrate to find out the Author to censure and punish him condignly according to his demerits 6. Because the Holy Writers did so and if their Names be omitted in some Books we know not whether it was with their consent or whether they did not put to their names howbeit not in quality of Canonicall Scripture or peradventure it was because they were not the Authors but as it were Gods Secretaries or Scribes for the Holy Ghost dictated them what they had to write 7. Because it hindreth men from being deceived in their moneys for sundry times men because of specious Titles put before Books buy them and afterward find nothing worth their money 8. The adding of the name of the Author and of the Licencer with the Licence will hinder the common people to be deceived in reading of hereticall and unsound in stead of Orthodox and sound Books So that this being confidered this Author should have done better that he had added his name and the Licence to his Book Quest II. Whether Mr. Cranford might not justly Licence A.S. his Consid and Answer to the Libell c. I Susteine the first part of the Question and deny the second As for the first it is evident 1. Because it is conformed to Gods word as we shall see hereafter 2. Because that Answer is nothing else but an Apologie for the Discipline of the Reformed Churches 3. Because it containeth nothing contrary to the Doctrine of the Church of England or any other true Reformed Churches only it hath some new Sectaries for Enemies 4. Because the Church of England evermore entertained Union with the Reformed Churches that were ruled by that Discipline and they refused not one another to the Communion of the Sacraments 5. Because that a Bishop and the rest of the Commissioners from England at the Synod of Dordrecht approved that Discipline in the name of the Church of England 6. Because in England it selfe it hath been evermore approved by the King and Parliament who granted the Exercise thereof unto the French Dutch Italian and Spanish Churches in this very City of London and sundry other parts of this Kingdome 7. At this present Episcopall Government being put down it standeth by Law approved both by State and Church as conforme unto Gods word 8. The Kings Majesty likewise by consent of Parliament Licenced it in Scotland The second part of the Question may be proved by the contrary Arguments 1. Because it maintaineth a Discipline that is not conforme to Gods word which hath not one word of particular Churches Independent one from another of particular Church-Covenants distinct from that of Grace of not Baptizing Christians Children of not admission of Faithfull men and women who are without Scandall unto the Lords Table c. 2. Because the Discipline it maintaineth is repugnant to all other Disciplines of all other reformed yea of all Christian Churches 3. It containeth many things contrary to the Doctrine of the Church of England as they confesse themselves 4. Because the Church of England never entertained any Union or Communion with any Church ruled by that Discipline 5. No Commissioners from England ever approved it 6. It hath never been received in England by King or Parliament 7. It hath never been put up here nor standeth here Legally as the other And therefore the first Legally might have been Licenced and the other could not be Licenced QUEST 3. Whether any man may not state and determine Questions agitated in Synods before the Synods Determination M. S. BLames me mightily for stating some Questions now in agitation in the Synod To the contrary I conceive that herein I have done nothing amisse But for the better stating and determining of this Question we must observe 1. That there are two sorts of Questions some that are already determined in Gods Word and his Church also Others that are not 2. That there are some Determinations by publick Authority as Lawes Statutes Ecclesiasticall Canons c. and others particular proceeding

of their opinions 5. Put the case it were so yet was it not so seasonable for them then to write as before M. S. Answereth 1. That many of these mists and not all 2 That they did but begin to scatter A. S. Iust but it was not so seasonable to write when any of them as when none of them begun to scatter or after as before they begun to scatter so to speake Morally that Apology was not seasonable since it was lesse seasonable then it would have been formerly M. S. Their motions were like the lowrings of an unconstant morning in which the mists ascend and anon descend and by and by ascend and turne into a Scottish mist that will wet an English man to the skin as our usuall Proverb is A. S. 1. This is but a Simile Quod nil probat 2. It is to be noted here how he noteth this Proverbiall jeer of a Scottish mist in a different sort of letter as conteyning some particular mystery and consequently worthy of the Readers particular observation 3. Yet I may say that the Independent mist is more able to drown all England Scotland and Ireland then a Scottish mist the outward part of an English mans cloathes and so will all true English and Christian hearts judge If any thing have befallen you since the change of the time of your Exile more imaginary then reall it was your owne fault in seducing the people in a clanculary way and in making of clandestine Assemblies and Conventicles which good Ministers could not endure seeing that nothing could content you unlesse that all should stoop under you Neither hath your Apology any waies diminished any ill but rather taken away the good opinion they had of you Afterwards M. S. accuseth not only the people but also Mr. Rutherford and Mr. Herle and sundry other Ministers A. S. his second reason is They who are called by the Parliament and admitted by the Assembly of Divines into the Assembly howsoever that calling was to finde them good and not to make them so are supposed by them to be innocent and not culpable and especially after that they have sate long in the Assembly of Divines with honour and good respect and consequently they are sufficiently vindicated from all false Accusations and have no need to Apologize for themselves that being farre away more sufficient to justifie them before the world then any Apology whatsoever that they can write for themselves But the Apologists were so called c. Ergo. This is the sense and forme by me intended of my Argument in the fourth Observation and not that that M. S. putteth upon it As for his instance of the Bishops against the first Proposition that they were called by the Parliament to the Assembly and yet they were not for all that supposed to be innocent or vindicated I Answer 1. That the Bishops were not admitted into the Assembly of Divines as they were 2. If they had been admitted and continued as long as they without reproach how can any doubt but that their sitting there should have served them for a sufficient justification and vindification of their honour in foro externo before men since it is not morally to be presumed that such a grave Senate will call or such a holy Assembly of such Learned and Reverend Divines will admit and retaine so long together any scandalous persons in their Assembly So this being testimonium alienum non proprium and publicum non privatum without all doubt it was sufficient to justifie them and more then any thing they can say in their owne behalfe since they cannot speake as Iudges but as Parties who are evermore justly suspected A. S. 3. Reason He or they who are sent by authority of Parliament into Scotland with the Parliaments Commissioners to treat of an extraordinary great Reformation of Religion in England and Ireland for the preservation of the Religion in Scotland in bringing them all to uniformity according to Gods Word and the Example of the best Reformed Churches and have ended the businesse with them are not morally to be presumed to be culpable but sufficiently freed from all filthy aspersions in matter of Religion that can have been laid upon them at least in foro externo wherein only they can be justified by men in this life for it is not Morally to be presumed that the Parliament would have imployed any but Orthodox men and good men in a matter of so high a concernment and consequently they needed not to Apologize for themselves or if they doe so it was unseasonably done But the Apologizers are such men If it be said only one of them was such a man Answ It is all one 1. For in matter of Religion they lye all under one and the same notion 2. At least that one needed not to Apologize as he did 4. Because being minded to make an Apology they should either not have made it at all being Members ' of the Assembly or have done it before their Admittance thereunto or after the Dissolving of the Assembly This had been a great deale more seasonable for it is not fit for a man to Apologize for himself in a cause wherein he sitteth as Iudge or when he sitteth as Iudge 5. We can finde no ordinary Example of such proceedings either in Scripture or Ecclesiasticall History 6. Because they did it in a season when the Church State stood in need of the Brotherly assistance of all the best reformed Churches and in that very nick of time they under-valued them all as not having the power of Piety as they themselves censured their Ecclesiasticall Discipline as not agreeable unto Gods Word and called them Calvinians whereof we have a sufficient proofe in a Letter sent to the Assembly from the Synod of Walachria wherein it complaineth much against this Booke because of the offence that the Reformed Churches received thereby 7. Because it was published against the Scots Discipline in that very nick of time most unseasonable when they were invited to come into England and when they came to hazard their lives for the Church and State of England and for the lives and states of these very men who in the meane while were writing against their Discipline QUEST 5. Whether the Quixqu ' Ecclesian Ministers should not have done better to have published their Opinions by way of Thoses or in some other Didactick way rather then by an Apologeticall Narration IMaintaine the Affirmative part 1. Because that of all other is the most accurate and easiest way to manifest cleerly their Opinions by both to the learned and ignorant 2. Because all other waies of teaching beget confusion for in them we cannot discerne that which is Substantiall from that which is Circumstantiall as we may see in Comedies Tragedies all sort of Verses long Speeches Prayers Dialogues c. 3. Because in this Apologeticall Narration it selfe many things are inserted which touch not the Businesse at all 4.