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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A78447	The censures of the church revived. In the defence of a short paper published by the first classis within the province of Lancaster ... but since printed without their privity or consent, after it had been assaulted by some gentlemen and others within their bounds ... under the title of Ex-communicatio excommunicata, or a Censure of the presbyterian censures and proceedings, in the classis at Manchester. Wherein 1. The dangerousness of admitting moderate episcopacy is shewed. ... 6. The presbyterian government vindicated from severall aspersions cast upon it, ... In three full answers ... Together with a full narrative, of the occasion and grounds, of publishing in the congregations, the above mentioned short paper, and of the whole proceedings since, from first to last.	Harrison, John, 1613?-1670.; Allen, Isaac, 17th cent.	1659 (1659)	Wing C1669; Thomason E980_22; ESTC R207784	289,546	380

God in his Word for the information of the ignorant but in what way of Catechizing as is expressed in our Paper the ignorant in our Congregations who never offered themselves unto the Sacrament were most like to be brought to some measure of knowledge and which is not a matter of Doctrine but of Order onely Neither was it by us submitted to that Assembly whether the censures of the Church were the meanes appointed by Christ for the reforming of the scandalous But whether it might not be meet pro hic nunc and as the present case stood to apply the censures and so put in practice at this time that which in the General we were sufficiently assured from the word of Truth was the way for their reformation and with which we were both by God and Man intrusted to dispense unto those that were openly scandalous in our Congregations However they contented themselves to live in the want of the Lords Supper nor ever presented themselves to the Eldership to be admitted to it And this because meerly circumstantial as to the dispensing of the Censures at this time and to such Persons we think herein we owed the Provincial Assembly unto whose Authority we professe our selves to be subject so much respect and duty as to submit our apprehensions in a case of this nature which they had propounded unto us to be seriously weighed as they had done to the rest of the Classes within this Province unto their Judgement and to take their concurrent approval along with us before we proceeded to practise in a matter of this weight And yet we have declared before That however we are not so wavering and unsettled in matters of faith as to resolve our belief into the determination of Synods or Councils believing no more nor no otherwise then as they determine Yet that it is not out of the compasse of the authority of a Synod to examine try and authoritatively to censure Doctrines as well as matters of Discipline And we think how confident soever you may be of the soundnesse and orthodoxnesse of what in your Paper you propound in way of exception against any thing in ours you have not such clear and unquestionable grounds from Scripture for the same that you were to be accused of wavering or unsettledness if you had submitted the same to have been examined and tried by a Provincial Assembly and much lesse if you could have had the opportunity of submitting it to the Censure of a General Council But whereas mentioning our Provincial Assembly at Preston you call it a new termed Provincial Assembly If your meaning be that the terming it a Provincial Assembly instead of a Provincial Synod is a new term then this is but onely a Logomachia and not much to be insisted on Although we frequently call it a Provincial Synod as well as a Provincial Assembly But if your meaning be That it is a new termed Provincial Assembly at Preston Because Provinciall Synods or Assemblies have been held but lately at Preston we see not if Provincial Assemblies be warrantable and have been of ancient use in the Church that having been long in dis-use they began of late to be held at Preston that can justly incurre your censure But if the Antiquity of such Assemblies be that you question Then we referre you to what Doctor Bernard in the Book of his above quoted shews was the Judgement of Doctor Vsher who is acknowledged by all that knew him or are acquainted with his works to have been a great Antiquary however we alleadge him not that you should build your faith upon his Testimony and which we think may be sufficient to vindicate Provincial Assemblies in your thoughts from all suspition of novelty In that Book you have in the close of it proposals touching the Reduction of Episcopacy unto the form of Synodical Government received in the ancient Church And it thus begins By the Order of the Church of England all Presbyters are charged to administer the Doctrine and Sacraments and the Discipline of Christ as the Lord hath commanded and as this Realm hath received And that they might the better understand what the Lord hath commanded herein The exhortation of Paul to the Elders of Ephesus Acts 20. 28. is appointed to be read unto them at the time of their Ordination A little after it is aknowledged That Ignatius by Presbytery mentioned by Paul 1 Tim. 4. 14. did understand the Community of the rest of the Presbyters or Elders who then had a hand not onely in the delivery of the Doctrine and Sacraments but also in the administration of the Discipline of Christ And for further proof Tertullian is alleadged in his Generall Apologie for Christians Where he saith that in the Church are used exhortations chastisements and divine censure For Judgement is given with great advice as among those who are certain they are in the sight of God And it is the chiefest foreshewing of the Judgement to come if any man have so offended that he be banished from the Communion of Prayer and of the Assembly and of all holy Fellowship The Presidents that bear rule therein are certain approved Elders who have obtained this honour not by reward but by good report There also is further shewed That in matters of Ecclesiastical judicature Cornelius Bishop of Rome used the received form of gathering together the Presbytery And that Cyprian sufficiently declares of what Persons that consisted When he wisheth him to read his Letter to the flourishing Clergy which there did preside or rule with him And further That in the fourth Council of Carthage it was concluded That the Bishop might hear no mans cause without the presence of the Clergy And that otherwise the Bishops sentence should be void unlesse it were confirmed by the Clergy And yet further That this is found inserted into the Canons of Egbert who was Archbishop of York in the Saxon times and afterwards into the body of the Canon law it self It is here also acknowledged That in our Church this kind of Presbyterian Government hath been much disused Yet that it did professe that every Pastor hath a right to rule the Church from whence also the name of Rector was at first given to him and administer the Discipline of Christ as well as to dispense the Doctrine and Sacraments c. By all which it is acknowledged and also proved That the form of Government by the united suffrages of the Clergy is ancient and which is there in express termes asse●ted as it might be demonstrated by many more Testimonies but that we conceive these already mentioned are sufficient and being alleadged by the aforementioned Author As also evidencing what his own Judgement was in this point may be more likely to sway with you if in that there should be a dissent betwixt you and us then any thing that we could our selves produce But in this reduction of Episcopacy to the form of Synodical Government

though we do not deny But that if upon the first exhortation they do not present themselves to the Eldership it being in order to their regular and orderly Admission to the Lords Supper the Minister may exhort and exhort them again because they continue in the neglect of that which is their duty yet there was no such thing said by us But then to make the ground of your charge something more colourable you added another word which was not at all used by us We said the Minister was to exhort and that was all But you adde and say He shall exhort and admonish But we have told you before to exhort and admonish are different things And we leave it to indifferent Judges to consider whether this be a candid and fair wa● of arguing even in the Schools much lesse should it have been made use of when it is brought in to bear up the weight of so heavy a charge as you here put up against us And this is the main foundation whereupon all the rest is built But your ground work being so unsure what you built thereon must needs fall Yet you go on to make it good as far as you can and therefore do further add and say But what if they still refuse Their names say you shall be published c. But what 's your proof for this That 's say you the fifth Order But here you quite mistake your mark and therefore when you have considered it your selves will not wonder you should shoot so wide For the fifth Order speaks only of Persons that have been privately admonished and also admonished by the Eldership Of which the former branch of the fourth order speaks And what sort of Persons that refers to is manifest from our Paper and hath been by us shewed before that it cannot by any good Rules of construction be referred to the Persons that the Minister is to exhort and which is the latter branch of the fourth Order And this link of your chain being thus broken the rest of it which follows must needs of it self fall in sunder So that we need to add no more And so we have done with the examination of what you have presented to us in your Paper But we do not finde that you have discovered to us any thing in ours that is not sound and orthodox and for which therefore there is any just reason why any thing in it should lye sadly on your spirits and consciences But do hope after you have seriously weighed what is here presented you may receive so much satisfaction as to see you have no just cause to forbear joyning with us upon any grounds you have here made known We have been willing to put our selves upon some pains in this our large Answer And if it attain the desired end we shall not account it ill bestowed If yet you should rest unsatisfied we desire you to let us know what it is you stumble at And though in regard of sundry other imployments that lye upon us it cannot be expected that we who meet but once a moneth in ordinary and about other matters should hold on a course of Answering you still by writing Yet we shall be ready to appoint some other way that may be far more speedy and we trust as effectual to give you that further satisfaction that is meet and just And now we shall intreat that as our only aime in this Anser hath not been victory but the clearing up of the Truth the satisfying your scruples and giving you a right understanding in what you were mistaken and the vindication of the Government and our selves and hereby the setling of Peace and Unity in our Congregations to the glory of God and edification of the Church So you would shew forth that Candor as not to put any other construction upon what is here offered to you And as you subscribe your selves our brethren desirous of Truth Unity and Peace in the Church So we shall heartily begge of the God of Truth and Peace that both you and we may all of us in all our transactions make it to appear that we are cordial and real in our professions of such desires and that he would bless these and all other our sincere endevours that they may be effectual for the attaining those ends Subscribed in the Name and by the appointment of the Class by John Angier Moderator THE GENTLEMENS Second Paper To the first Classis at Manchester within the Province of Lancaster These Dear Friends nay more Brethren dearly beloved to us in the Lord WE return you hearty thanks for your Answer wherein we finde your much Civility towards us but with too much prolixity We deny not but there may be some errours and mistakes and some sharp reflections upon you and your Government in our Paper which you charge upon us In yours also and that not improbably in one of that bulk might be discovered so me Impertinencies errours and mistakes which we forbear to minde you of but silently pass over hoping all will be buried or covered in that true love and Charity of Brethren of one and the same Church and fellowship In that true love we say which covereth a multitude of faults We shall make no further Replication to the several particulars in your Paper at this time but only to one Branch wherein you refer us to Dr. Bernard In the close of whose Book we meet with one intituled The Reduction of Episcopacy unto the form of Synodical Government received in the Ancient Church By the most Reverend and Learned Father of our Church Dr. James Vsher late Archbishop of Armagh and Primate of all Ireland proposed in the year 1641. as an expedient for the prevention of those troubles which afterwards did arise about the matter of Church Government which you say is the same in substance with yours Your words are these But if the Antiquity of such Assemblies be that you Question Then we refer you to what Dr. Bernard in the Book of his above quoted shews was the judgement of Dr. Usher who is acknowledged by all that knew him or are acquainted with his works to have been a great Antiquary however we alleadge him not that you should build your faith on his Testimony And which we think may be sufficient to vindicate Provinciall Assemblies in your thoughts from the Suspicion of Novelty In that Book you have in the close of it proposals touching the Reduction of Episcopacy unto the form of Synodical Government received in the Ancient Church And it thus begins By the order of the Church of England c. And so you go on quoting several Testimonies of Fathers and Councils there alleadged In which you further proceed and say There are Proposals of Assemblies of Pastors within certain limited bounds which saving that they are somewhat larger then ours which is but a circumstantial difference do hold proportion with the Classical Provincial and National Assemblies mentioned

Brethren of one and the same Church and Fellowship And we know not what other Church you mean but the Church of England some of you that are the Subscribers of this Paper not being Members of the particular Church at Manchester nor any of you acknowledging or owning our Presbyterian Classicall Church or Association And therefore you here take us to be of the same Church of England with your selves and confess that we are in fellowship with it notwithstanding Episcopacy be taken away and which is that which we our selves do constantly profess 2. That that Episcopacy that was submitted to by the Ministers of this Land of later times was burthensome and grievous It spoyled the Pastors of that power which of right did belong unto them and which they did not onely anciently exercise as Doctor Vsher shews in his Reduction of Episcopacy to the form of Synodicall Government received in the ancient Church Pag. 3 4 5. but which also by the order of the Church of England as the same Author out of the Book of Ordination shews did belong unto them For he there saith By the Order of the Church of England all Presbyters are charged to administer the Doctrine and Sacraments and the Discipline of Christ as the Lord hath commanded and as this Realm hath received and that they might better understand what the Lord hath commanded them the Exhortation of St. Paul to the Elders of the Church of Ephesus is appointed to be read unto them at the time of their Ordination Take heed unto your selves and to all the Flock among whom the Holy-ghost hath made you Overseers to rule the Congregation of God which he hath purchased with his blood All which power the Pastors were deprived of during the prevalency of Episcopacy the Keys of the Kingdome of Heaven being taken out of their hands they having neither power to cast out of the Church the vilest of Offenders that were often kept in against their minds nor any power to restore into the Churches Communion such as had been never so unjustly excommunicated though of the best of their Flock And so that Episcopacy that formerly was submitted unto was a plain and manifest usurpation upon the Pastors Office and Authority was very oppressive and grievous unto the Church and injurious to her Communion and whereupon it will follow that there is no breach of that Union which ought to be maintained in the Church by not admitting of it again but rather the Churches peace the power that of right belongs unto the Pastors and the Priviledges of the Members are all better secured in the absence then in the presence of it 3. That however both godly Conformists as well as Nonconformists did groan under the burthensomness of it yet in licitis honest is they submitted and yielded Obedience to it whilst it continued established by the Laws of the Land And that out of respect to the peace of the Church although they did not thereby take themselves obliged to forbeare the use of any lawfull means for their deliverance from that bondage as opportunity was offered And hereupon they petitioned the Parliament of late for an abolition of it as had been formerly desired in the Reign of Queen Elizabeth and King James as when other Laws have been found to be inconvenient and mischievous it was never accounted any disturbance of the civil peace to remonstrate the grievousness of such Laws to the Parliament that they might be abolished 4. Let it also be further weighed that that Episcopacy to which you would perswade us by this Argument to return is now abolished and taken away by the Authority of Parliament as appears by the Acts and Ordinances for that purpose See them cited in our Animadversions on your next Paper Sect. 4. And therefore both the Bishops as such and that Superiority which they challenged and exercised over the Ministers in this Land are dead in Law and so there can be no guilt of Schisme lying on the Ministers in this Land for not returning to that Canonicall Obedience that is not hereupon any longer due or for not submitting themselves to that power and jurisdiction that is extinct There is the greater strength in this consideration if it be observed 1. That whatever Jurisdiction the Diocesan Bishops did exercise over Presbyters they did obtain onely by the Law of the Land and Canon of the Church 2. That the Parliament did lawfully take away that Jurisdiction from them and had therein the concurrence of a reverend and learned Assembly of Divines The first of these Propositions is clear upon this consideration that the Scripture makes a Bishop and a Presbyter all one This is clear from Titus 1. Ver. 5. compared with the seventh whence it appears that those whom the Apostle had called Elders or Presbyters Ver. 5. he calls Bishops Ver. 7. And indeed otherwise he had reasoned very inconsequently when laying down the qualifications of Elders Ver. 6. he saith Ver. 7. For a Bishop c. For a Bishop must be blameless Whereunto may be added that other known place Act. 20. 17. compared with Ver. 28. For the Apostle saith to those Elders that the Holy-ghost had made them Bishops or Overseers of the Church Besides what Office the Bishops had that the Elders had Both are charged to feed the Flock of Christ Act. 20. 28. 1 Pet. 5. 12. and which is both by Doctrine and Government The Keys of the Kingdome of Heaven were committed to them Mat. 16. 19. both the Key of Doctrine and the Key of Discipline The former is not denyed and for the other it is proved from 1 Thes 5. 12. 1 Tim. 5. 17. Heb. 13. 7 17 24. where we see they are called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 those that are over them 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 those that rule well 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 those that rule And for power to Ordain we may see its plain from 1 Tim. 4. 14. where Timothy is charged not to neglect the Gift that was in him which was given him by Prophesie with the laying on of the hands of the Presbytery This Text you your selves tell us in your next Paper Sect. 5. is understood by the Greek Fathers as Ignatius Chrysostome Theodoret Theophylact Oecumenius and others and some few of the Latines also Of the company of Presbyters i. e. Bishops who lay hands on the new made Bishops or Priests But from these several Texts thus urged it is very manifest that the Scripture makes a Bishop and a Presbyter both one or one and the same order of Ministry And hereupon it follows that whatever Jurisdiction the Diocesan Bishops exercised over Presbyters they had it not by Divine Right but obtained it onely by the Law of the Land and Canon of the Church And thus the first Proposition is clear We now come to make good the second And that the Parliament did lawfully take away the Jurisdiction and whole Office of Diocesan Bishops

end of the World in a succession of a lawfull ordained Ministry And in your next Paper you falling foule upon us and charging us with a rent indeed a Schisme in the highest you add which is not satisfied but with the utter overthrow of the Church from whom they rent Here you lay a great stress upon Episcopacy and such an one as none of our true Protestant Divines that defend the truth of our own and other reformed Churches against the Papists would ever have layd upon it But here two things are hinted which we shall severally examine 1. You intimate that by the taking away of Episcopacy the Church is overthrowne it cannot be continued amongst us from Age to Age to the end of the World except Episcopacy be restored 2. But yet there is a further Implication sc That there cannot be a Succession of a lawfull ordained Ministry which Succession yet you intimate to be necessary to the being of the Church if we have not Bishops againe that may Ordain 1. Unto the first of these we shall answer after we have premised a distinction touching the word Church For either the Church of God amongst us which you here speak of is taken essentially for that part of the Catholick visible Church which in regard of the place of its abode in this Land is called the Church of England as the severall parts of the Sea which yet is but one receive their Denomination from the Shoares they wash Or else you take the word Church for a Ministeriall Church or for the Church represensative as it is taken Matth. 18. 27. This premised we answer If you take the word Church in the former sense your Position is very gross no other then this that for want of Bishops the whole Church of England is at present overthrowne and that there is no way of recovery of it but by the restoring of them and so in the mean season it is no Church with whom we may safely hold Communion which layes a Foundation for separation from it and of Apostasie unto Rome where Bishops may be had We shall therefore to this say no more but onely mind you of what is well observed by Mr. Baxter out of B. Jewell in the defence of the Agreement of the Worcestershire Ministers Page 58. where he hath these words B. Jewell in his defence of the Apology Authorised to be kept in all Churches Part 2. Page 131. Neither doth the Church of England depend on them whom you so often call Apostates as if our Church were no Church without them They are no Apostates Mr. H c. Notwithstanding if there were not one neither of them nor of us left alive yet would not the whole Church of England flee to Lovaine Tertullian saith Nonne Laici sacerdotes sumus Scriptum est regnum quoque s●cerdotes Deo patri suo nos fecit differentiam inter ordinem plebem constituit ecclesiae authoritas honos per ordinis concessum sanctificatus a Deo Vbi ecclesiastici ordinis non est concessus offert tingit sacerdos qui est ibi solus Sed ubi tres sunt Ecclesia est licet Laici But if you take the word Church for a Ministeriall or Organized Church we oppose your Position with these following Arguments 1. That which we have already proved sc That a Bishop and a Presbyter are all one in Scripture acceptation will necessarily inferre that the being of a Ministeriall or Organized Church doth not depend on the continuance or restauration of Bishops taking them for such as are superiour to Presbyters either in regard of Order or Jurisdiction For though these be never restored yet Presbyters being continued that yet are Bishops in Scripture sense the Organized and Ministeriall Church of Christ is fufficiently secured against the danger of perishing 2. But by the Tenent you here hold forth you do very uncharitably unchurch the best reformed Churches throughout the World The Protestant Churches of France Scotland the Low countries and Geneva must all be p●t out of the number of free Organized and Ministeriall Churches and their Ministers must because they admit not the Bishops that you are for be accounted no lawfull Ministers Yea you here againe very undutifully unchurch your Mother the Church of England if she restore not Episcopacy and herein gratifie the Papists no little that vilifie her and other reformed Churches as no true Churches and ●ry out against their Ministers as no lawfull Ministers But blessed be God both the Church of England and other reformed Churches and their Ministers have had and still have better Advocates and more dutifull Sonnes then you herein approve your selves to be to plead their Cause 3. By this Tenent also it will follow That all the Ordinances that are dispensed in these Churches are null and void Their Baptisme is no Baptisme The Sacrament of the Lords Supper Administred amongst them is no Sacrament and the like must be said of all the Ordinances that are dispensed in our Church by such as were not ordained by Bishops and so it makes them as to outward Church-Priviledges no better then meer Heathens and hereupon it ministers occasion of endless Doubts and Scruples unto the Members of those Churches of questioning the validity of their Baptisme and whether they ought not to be rebaptized which doubts also by your Tenent are occasioned also to all those among your selves that were baptized by such Ministers as were not Ordained by Bishops Thus you see how you lay the Foundation of Anabaptisme which yet you would seem to be zealous Opposers of 4. Add hereunto that hence it will unavoidably follow That you must not hold any Communion with these Churches nor such Congregations in the Church of England where these Ordinances are dispensed by such as were not Ordained by Bishops their Ministers according to your Doctrine being not lawfull Ministers and for the Ordinance dispensed by them null and void And here is a Rent indeed a rent in the highest to use your owne expressions from which our old Episcopall Divines that were sound Protestants would never have excused you no nor Doctor Vsher with whom in some things you profess to close For however he is represented by Doctor Bernard to have held that a Bishop had Superiority in degree above a Presbyter by Apostolicall Institution and had expressed himselfe sharply enough in his Letter to Doctor Bernard Touching the Ordination made by such Presbyters as had severed themselves from Bishops yet a little after speaking of the Churches of the Low-Countries * he sayth For the testifying his Communion with these Churches which he professeth to love and honour as true Members of the Church Universall he should with like affection receive the blessed Sacrament at the hands of the Dutch Ministers if he were in Holland as he should at the hands of the French Ministers if he were in Charenton By which you may perceive however he held those Churches

Presbyterian Government were still in force and that those rules laid down in them awarranted all our actings and particularly what we had published in our several Congregations in our Paper and which whosoever doth not so start at because they are Ordinances of Parliament but that he keeps in his right mind he will see to be different things But you do still go on with your flowts and will needs have it to be that we went about to prove which is your own phrase and not ours our Government to be established by civill authority the first work we took in hand and that we are no further yet but going about to prove your own phrase again as if the matter must needs be as you say it is or therefore true because you represent it to be so after a scoffing manner Fifthly And when you have thus pleased your selves with your taunting expressions you now would profess to do us a kindness being willing to conduct us if possible into the good old way again by taking off our Government from the establishment of authority upon the proof whereof as you say so great a part of our answer doth insist But seeing the way you herein go as will appear anon doth quite overthrow all other Ordinances of Parliament as well as those that are for the establishment of the Presbyterian Government you must excuse us though upon your most earnest entreaty we dare not follow you in this your way being w●ll assured we should be then indeed out of our way quite Sixthly But now you come to answer to the Orders and Ordinances of Parliament by u●recited and so to the Ordinance of the Lords and Commons assembled in Parliament Aug 29. 1648 establishing the forme of Church Government to be used in the Church of England and Ireland and which remaines as we said unrepealed to this day and receives strength by the humble Advice assented to by his late Highness and which Ordinance was by us more especially insisted on But what is it that you alleadge to take away the strength of any Ordinance of Parliament that we made mention of in our answer In the first place you tell us that when we speak of a Government established by Law you hope we mean such as hath the strength and force of a Law to bind the free born people of this Nation and thereupon you question whether our Ordinance of the Lords and Commons though unrepealed to this day be of that force and touching this you referre us to the judgement and resolution of the Sages of the Law affirming that nothing can have the force of a Law to bind the people without the concurrent consent of the three estates in Parliament and you instance particularly in the Lord Cook and several passages in his Institutes In answer unto all which we must needs in the first place as we did in our answer to your first Paper apologize for our selves that being no Lawyers we shall not take upon us to determine any Law case and that our cause in this particular were fitter to be pleaded by the learned in the Law that have farre better abilities for it then we have only till some of these undertake in this particular to plead for us we hope we may be allowed freely to speak for our selves And here we shall not say all that we could much less what persons better able to deal in an argument of this nature might But that which we shall say is first something in the general then we shall proceed to answer more particularly In the generall we say two things 1. That if the Ordinances of Parliament for Church Government be of no force because there was not the concurent consent of three Estates to the making of them then all Ordinances of Parliament without exception of any are null and void and of no force to binde the people as well as those that concern Church Government and so it concerns all Committees that have been throughout the Land and those that have acted under them or do yet act and all Judges and Justices that have acted or do act upon any Ordinance of Parliament to consider what they have to say to what you do here alledge against their proceedings as well as against ours Nay then the Act made Anno 1650 for Relief of Religious and peaceable People that yet is afterwards much insisted on by you is of no force for to that questionless there was not the concurrent consent of three Estates in Parliament 2. That the Parliament themselves who made these Ordinances declared That the King having not onely withdrawn himself from the Parliament but leavied war against it salus populi was suprema Lex and thereupon by Ordinance of Parliamēt they proceeded to settle the affairs both of Church and State without his consent yea and to repeal some former acts and as they did expresly when they passed the Ordinance for the Directory for Worship repealing the Acts of Parliament that had been passed formerly for the Book of Common Prayer as appears by their Ordinance for that purpose of Jan. 3d 1644. And also when they passed another Ordinance Octob. 9. 1646. for the abolishing of Arch-Bishops and Bishops within the Kingdom of England and Dominion of W●les by which they are expresly dis●nabled to use or put in ure any Archiepiscopall or Episcopall jurisdiction or authority by force of any Letters Pattents from the Crown made or to be made or by any other authority whatsoever any Law Statute usage or custome to the contrary notwithstanding as appears from the very words of that Ordinance And if we forget not it was by them in those times further declared That however the King had withdrawn his Person from the Parliament yet his Royall Authority could not be withdrawn But we know that what the Parliament in those dayes acted in the passing those and such like Ordinances was approved by the Sages of the Law that in those times adhered to the Parliament And this will now lead us to return our more particular answer to what you present for to take away the obliging force of Ordinances of Parliament And therefore 1. We say That that long Parliament as you call it who did so much honour the Lord Cook as to publish his Works by their special appointment did so well understand him that they were well assured there was not any thing in them that condemned their proceedings as illegal as on the contrary we do thereupon conceive that if he had been alive in those times he would have justified them And further we say under correction that all youalledg out of him was and is to be understood in cases ordinary not as it was in the times when the Ordinances for Church Government and other Ordinances for the setling the affairs of the Nation were passed when the King had withdrawn himself from the Parliament and levyed war against it 2. But to add some further confirmation

to what we here assert be pleased to take notice that we meet with a Book printed in this very year 1658. Entituled A collection of Acts and Ordinances of general use made in the Parliament begun and held at Westminster the third day of November 1640. and since unto the adjournment of the Parliament begun and holden the 17th of Septem Anno 1656. and formerly published in print which are here printed at large with marginall notes or abreviated being a continuation of that Work from the end of Mr. Poltons Collection by Henry Scobell Esq Clerk of the Parliament examined by the Original Records and now printed by speciall Order of Parliament In this book as we finde the Ordinance for the Directory of Worship recited at large and likewise the Ordinance above mentioned for the abolishing of Archbishops and Bishops within the Kingdom of England and Dominion of Wales so likewise we meet with the Ordinance of Aug. 29. 1648. establishing the form of Church Government to be used in the Church of England and Ireland after advice had with the Assembly of Divines and this recited at large as will appear to any that will peruse that book And being the design of that book was to make a continuation of a Collection of Acts and Ordinances of generall use from the end of Mr. Poltons Collection as appears by the Title of it the Parliament that appointed this book to be printed by their speciall Order and Mr. Scobell the Clerk of the Parliament who collected these Acts and Ordinances and examined them by the originall Records were much mistaken in the putting forth this book that is also printed in a large black Character after the manner of the Statutes if no Ordinances of Parliament have in them any force to oblige the people of this Nation 3. We have onely one thing more to add sc that in the 16th Section of the Humble Advice and whereof we minded you in our Answer it is expresly provided that the Acts and Ordinances not contrary thereunto shall continue and remain in force Now that there is nothing in the form of Church Government contrary to any thing contained in the humble Advice we shall make out anon But thus we hope we have said that which may be sufficient for answer to your first exception against the Ordinances of Parliament for Church Government as not having the concurrent consent of the three Estates and to what you alledge out of the Lord Cooke As touching what you urge out of Judg Jenkins saying an Ordinance of both Houses is no Law of the Land by their own confession meaning the Parliament 1. part Coll. of Ordinances fol. 728 we cannot give that credit to his representation of the Parliament he having been an opposer of it as to conclude thence there is no force in any Ordinance of Parliament to oblige the people of this Nation considering that in some of their Ordinances they do as we have said expresly repeal former Acts of Parliament made by the concurrent consent of the three Estates and considering that if they have any where any expressions to that purpose they may be understood either of Ordinances of Parliament made in cases ordinary when the King had not withdrawn himfelf from it or concerning such as were of no long continuance but for the present emergency or of such as were but temporary and long since expired and which sort of Ordinances Mr. Scobell in his Preface to the Book above mentioned saith he collected not but onely such whereof there is or may be daily use as he there speaks We have now donewith your first exception against the Ordinances by us recited for the establishing Church Government and come to your second for admitting Ordinances of Parliament to have an obligatory force in them yet those that concern the establishment of the Presbyterian Government you would have to be repealed Indeed here you said something if you could bring forth any of those subsequent Acts that you speak of granting liberty to pious people in the Land that did repeal the Ordinances for Church Government either implicitly or expresly For we shall not deny that Leges posteriores priores contrarias abrogant but in this you fall short as in the former There is not any subsequent Act or Ordinance that we have seen or that you mention that grants any liberty to any which is denied in the form of Church Government The Act made 1650 for relief of Religious and peaceable people from the rigour of former Acts of Parliament in matters of Religion and which you will have to be an express repeal doth not make void the Ordinance which we act●on It onely repeals the poenall Statutes that imposed mulcts and punishments on the offenders against those Laws in their bodies or estates It doth not at all refer to the Ecclesiasticall censures nor so much as mention them as will be clear to him that will peruse it And so the Ordinance establishing the form of Church Government stands whole and entire and untoucht at all by this Act. But here we desire two things might be observed 1. That if this Act stood good against our proceedings repealing the Ordinances establishing the Presbyterian Government so as that the persons mentioned in it were thereby exempt from all Ecclesiasticall censure then it must needs much more stand good against all other sorts of persons that have no such Ordinance awarranting their proceedings and would be a barr in their way that they could not censure with Church censures any of their members 2. That being you in your Papers do fully declare your selves for Episcopacy and that the Acts granting some indulgence to some persons yet do still provide that the liberty granted by them should not be extended to Popery and Prelacy neither this nor any other Act for the relief of any pious or concientious Christians can with any colour be alledged by you to the purpose for which you urge them As touching the eleventh Section of the humble Advice to which you referre us we had throughly perused it and seriously weighed it before you minded us of it but we never did neither do we as yet see any contrariety betwixt it and the forme of Church Government established by Ordinance of Parliament We finde still as we told you in our answer though you here neither take notice thereof nor make any reply thereto that it seems clearly to own the Directory for worship and the forme of Church Government as the publique profession of the Nation for worship and Government as we also said in our answer there were the like expressions in the Government of the Commonwealth of England Scotland and Ireland as it was publikely declared at Westminster Decemb. 16. 1653. pag. 43. Sect. 37. And if you had pleased you might have found that whatever indulgence is granted to any in this Sect it is there expresly provided that that liberty be not extended to Popery and Prelacy And

in the form of our Church Government As also the times propounded there for their meetings the power of these Assemblies c. and are the same in substance as with us And all these were propounded as the way of Government in the Ancient Church and as an Expedient c. as abovesad And therefore for so you conclude in the Judgement of this learned and Reverend Antiquary our Provincial Assembly at Preston where the Pastors of the Church are members as he acknowledgeth of right they ought to be in such Assemblies would not have been accounted a new Termed Provincial Assembly Touching all which we shall close and joyn issue with you we willingly submit our selves to that order aud rule therein Expressed which being that which was received in the Ancient Church In the Judgement of that Reverend and learned Antiquary Dr. Vsher who was so acknowledged by all that knew him or are acquainted with his works And also the Assemblies there expressed holding proportion with yours set down in the form of your Church Government and being the same with yours in substance and being proposed as an Expedient for prevention of further troubles c. We fully expect you should also submit your selves unto for Peace and Unities sake and so we close and meet together as in the middle And this the rather in regard of those full and free expressions of yours to that purpose saying We reverence Dr. Bernard for his moderation and profession of his desires for peace wishing That such as do consent in Substantials for matter of Doctrine would consider of some Conjunction in point of Discipline That private Interests and Circumstantials might not keep themselves so far asunder In which wish as we do cordially joyn our selves so we heartily desire that all godly and moderate spirited men throughout the Land would also close And in another place you say However we dare not admit of a moderate Episcopacy for fear of encroachings upon the Pastors right c. Yet we do here professe we should so far as will consist with our principles and the peace of our own Consciences be ready to abate or tolerate much for peace sake That so at the length all parties throughout the Land that have any soundness in them in matters of faith and that are sober and godly though of different judgements in lesser matters being weary of their divisions might fall into the necks of one another with mutual embraces and kisses and so at last through the tender mercy of our God there might be an happy closure of breaches and restoring of peace and union in this poor unsetled rent and distracted Church to the glory of God throughout all Churches Now who are they that disturbe this our happy closure and conjunction We wish not with the Apostle that they were cut off but that they were taken away that trouble us for only they let that will let untill they be taken out of the way and those are the Ruling Elders as you call them We suppofe you mean those whom you have chosen out of the Laity and admitted without further entring into holy Orders into the whole execise of Ecclesiastical jurisdiction in equal right with the Ministers of the Gospel in which respect your Assemblies and so your Provincial at Preston would be accounted in the judgement of Dr. Vsher a new termed Provincial assembly and stand yet uncleared of suspition of novelty whom you say You cannot consent to part with unlesse you should betray the Truth of Christ as you judge quoting Rom. 12. 1 Cor. 12. 1 Tim. 5. and for further Testimony refer us to some Modern Authors all of yesterday Now whereas you say you cannot part with them unless you betray the Truth of Christ as you judge By this Parenthesis we gather that you are not so wedded to that opinion but you can and will submit to better reason when offered to you And we do again profess to you that we will not willfully and pertinaciously hold a contrary Tenent And in this confidence we proceed to shew to you that Lay-Elders are not meant nor mentioned in those Texts by you alledged Briefly thus but more largely hereafter if what is comprehended in this paper be not judged satisfactory Run over all the Expositers of holy writ whether the Fathers in general or more particular Councils And Calvin saith there can be no better nor surer remedy for deciding ofcontroversies no better sense nor Interpretation of Scripture then what is given by them in such Councils or whether the Fathers apart And first for that Text Rom. 12. here what Dr. Andrews saith and at your leisure examine the Fathers There is no Epistle saith he on which so many of the Fathers have writ Six only I will name Origen Chrysostome Theodoret Ambrose Jerom Oecumenius All which have treated of it Let their Commentaries be looked on upon that place not one of them applyeth it to the Church Government which by all likelihood could not be imagined but they would if that had been the main place for it nor finde those Offices in those words which they in good earnest tell us of c. As much may be said for the other two Texts Not one Father in their Comments upon them giveth such a sense Finde one Exposition for you and which is much we will yield you all Many there are that apply them to the Bishops And so one for those many of our Modern Doctors we could give you to answer those modern you quote in behalf of your Elders of our English Church Dr. Fulk by name we instance in applying these Texts to the Bishops only whom we quote in regard of the moderate judgement he was supposed to be of in point of Church-government and therefore more likely to sway with you than any other we could produce His words are these Amongst the Clergy for Order and Government there was alwayes one principal to whom by long use of the Church the name of Bishop or Super-intendent hath been applyed which in Scripture is called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 quoting these Texts Rom. 12. 8. 1 Tim. 5. 17. and Heb. 13. 17. And therefore it can be no betraying of the Truth of Christ if you will seriously weigh it in the ballance of impartial and unprejudicate reason to part with them and to take in the other but a strengthening and a backing of it Wherefore in the name of God and in the tender bowels of Christ we beg again and again beseeching you not to stand upon circumstantials or private interests But to apply your selves to this happy conjuncture and reconcilement of so many poor Christian Souls in truth love and peace in this our English Church in these our days The blessing that may redound to all parties thus reconciled is unconceiveable The lives and manners of dissolute persons and how many there are amongst our selves of that sort we are but too too conscious