Selected quad for the lemma: england_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
england_n	book_n	church_n	rome_n	3,625	5	7.0618	4	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A02200	M. Some laid open in his coulers VVherein the indifferent reader may easily see, hovve vvretchedly and loosely he hath handeled the cause against M. Penri. Done by an Oxford man, to his friend in Cambridge.	Throckmorton, Job, 1545-1601.; Greenwood, John, d. 1593, attributed name.; Penry, John, 1559-1593, attributed name.	1589 (1589)	STC 12342; ESTC S118462	88,170	130

then our very Church and state it selfe whose doctrine practise is flat contrary to this maxima and rule of his And that you may see into what distresse your doctor hath brought himselfe by this meanes marke howe syllogisticasly I can come vpon him for need and yet you know my Atithmaticke hath bene as good as my Logicke in my dayes 1 The Churche of England maintaineth nothing in her doctrine or regiment whereof she cannot reader a sounde reason and a sufficient proofe from the foundation of Gods word to maintain it with a good conscience 2 But the Churche of England alloweth of those whom she knoweth confesseth to be vnbaptized to come ordinarily to the Lords table 3 Ergo it is agreeable to Gods word and to conscience and so falleth to the grounde that assertion of M. Somes vz. That none vnbaptized must be admitted to the supper How say you now haue not I cut the throat of this geare if you vrge me now to proue my maior I know I shall no sooner name the man vnto you from whom I had it but you will put of your cappe straight and I presume so much of his curtesie that if you and I had him in a corner to spurre him the question he woulde answere vs as he doth elsewhere full sweetly Forsooth brethren that did even I for it is the kindest gentleman if you were acquainted with him that euer well I will not say now what I know but if you will needs haue my maior prooued doe but turne I praye you to the 5. page of the learned preface of that greeke Lexicon in 40. which was printed by Charde to his cost I feare I befoole his fingers that was the cause of it if you aske mee what time it was published though I should misse of the moneth yet me thinkes I shoulde not misse much of the yere because it came forth just at the same time that many proper fooleries came out without priuiledge Euen there I say and in the very same page shall you finde my maior prooued sufficiently and I hope M. Some will not be so hard hearted to denie th'authoritie of M. Bridges for then there is no deiling with him My minor you see is manifest by the daily practise of our Church in admitting such to the Lords table as haue none other baptism then that of women and that I am sure M. Some will confesse to be none Neither is there nor neuer was since her majesties raigne anye tryall or examination had of the matter nor any article injunction or commandement so to enquire no nor any Homily or other private or publike admonition that euer I heard of to charge men to examine themselues in that point whether they haue true baptism or no but as if it were a thing nothing materiall they are as wee see without further scruple receiued to the Lords table in peace And the like is of those that are our ministers preachers of the gospell as well Bb. as others For among al the Bb. articles and vrgings to subscription was there ever any stay made I pray you in the admission of any to that publike function of the ministerie onely vpon that point whether they were baptized by women or no I thinke not and yet it may be that manye of them haue had none other baptisme then that O but you will saye that was not knowne and at the time of their admission it was supposed they were sufficiently baptized But I say againe if the matter be so materiall as M. Some would haue it that ought especially to haue bene knowne and no hande giuen to their allowance before it had bene perfectly knowne And if we should stay till then I thinke it would go neere to craze the license of some of the graundfathers and make a foule scoure amongest th'oldest of our preachers And so peraduenture father Iohn Elmar should kisse Cate no more in the pulpit while he liued and what a shrewd losse were that Well I conclude therfore sithence The Churche of England maintaineth nothing in doctrine or regiment but she may well do with a good conscience as from the foundation of godsword For I tell you wee poore parishioners hang much on that maior of M. Bridges his and that all this while she neuer called this matter in question but admitteth both to the Communion and to the publik teaching in the Church such as haue bin onely baptized by women and neuer stoppeth nor stayeth at it nor maketh any enquirie after it I conclude I say for so it must needs fall out that M. Some was greatly ouerseene thus in a kinde of singularitie to controlle his betters without cause What I beleeue we shall haue one of these puritanes of him shortly for they are alwayes taking exceptions to something or other in Churche or state No more of that I woulde advise him if hee loue his health or his wealth either for those fellowes be so elvish that they had rather begge then haue two benefices Now for farther confirmation and authorising of this practise of our Church because M. Some seemeth to carrie so reverent a minde to his superiors that he will submit himselfe and all his writings to their censure I will here to cut of al cauils set down the judgment of one of the grauest Prelates of the land concerning that point of womens baptisme For these as I am informed are my L. of Winchesters owne words with his graue preamble and all and I thinke himselfe will not denie them Although I be perswaded that the most obiestions made by some persons against the booke of commen prayer are in trueth of no waight but rather captious vnprofitable as concerning the Church of England in publike prayer and the vse of the Sacraments to maintaine those things that be directly against the worde of God yet for the quieting better directing of some moderate minds which by occasion haue bin drawn into some scruple about these things I haue layed downe mine opinion about the true interpretation of the same in this wise First as touching the baptisme by Midwiues I can assure you that the Church of England or any that I knowe in place of gouerment therein doth not maintaine either the baptisme of midwiues as a thing tollerable in the Church or else the condemnation of those children that depart this worlde vnbaptized but doth accounte them both eronius not according to the word of God For in the Conuocation the matter was debated amongst vs wherin some of those persons were present to whome the drawing of the booke was committed whoe protested that neither the order of the booke did alowe any such thing neither that it was any part of their meaning to approue the same But for soe much as baptizing by women hath bin a sore time commonly vsed and nowe also of rashnesse by some is done the booke only taketh order prouideth that if the childe be baptized by the

to giue him the blush that shal denie it For the Minor if you shal tel me that on may be a papist in this point as in Crossing kneeling oyling sasling Pilgrimages praier for the dead c. and so continewe yet be a member of Gods Church you answere nothing For these and such like slight instances though they may be otherwise offensiue to god be not yet the things a quibus dennoiantur tales though I confesse that these be in deed of the dregs and ossales of popery and a very shrewd signe that they that are wholly drenched herein are scarce sounde at the hart yet can they not rightly be called papists only for these As an Arrian what other errors soeuer he hould yet is he called an Arrian hath his name only for the deniall of the Godhead of Christ nothing els which detestable heresie whensoeuer he renounceth though he be wide in some other smaller points he is no more an Arrian but may wel be reckoned as a member of the Church In like sort Papistry consisting of these 3. Pillers 1. The denial of the true only Headship of Christ by placing Antichrist in his rome 2. The denial of the Sole sufficient sacrafice of Christ by the vse of their blasphemous Idolatrous Masse 3. The deniall of our iustification in the bloude of Christ by saith alone by thrusting in rags and merits of their owne This being as I say the whole frame and groundworke of popery whensoeuer any man renounceth and a bandoneth this he is no more say I a Papist though not withstanding in some other smaller respects he may peraduenture justly be called Popish and so may a protestant to in some sorte as if a woman for the great loue she bare to hir husbande woulde by noe meanes be perswaded but to pray for his soule when he is gone or if a man in some scruple of conscience would in noe sort be drawen to tast any meare on good friday as they cal it This man or woman though otherwise sound in the grounds of religion may in this regard truely be called popish and yet none of the papists neither for all that In which sence if M. Some should vnderstand popishe he must needes make a verye warme conclusion of it for so might the protestantes Churche be called a popishe church Therefore vnderstanding popery in that sence that al the godly learned for the most part vnderstand it that is for a profession that holdeth of these three heads I spake of before vz. That Antichrist of Rome Th' idolatrous Masse and the deniall of our iustification in the blood of Christ. In this sence I take it my minor proposition is in it selfe sufficiently rampered against the strongest battery of the best lerned pen vnder heuen For who dare say that anye man holding any of these three so continuing can be a visible member of the Church And if a man may aske it what was that I pray you that cut of the Iewes from being the people of God Was it not Insidelitie For I take it th' Apostle doth not meane in that place that vnbelese made them a stayned or a corrupted Church but that it quite broke them of from being any Church at all I meane any vizible church otherwise from the everlasting covenant I knowe there can be no breaking of neither can infidelitie lay holde of those that are once enrolled in the bocke of life wel then if it be an aparant truth that infidelitie cut of the Iewes not onlye from being a sounde Churche but from being anye Churche at all I woulde gladly knowe what Charter of priuiledge the Church of Rome hath but that the very same defection which was the breaking of of the Iewes must needs also and that by Gods just judgment be the cuttinge of of them But will you heare any more of my arguments For I begin nowe to be of M. Somes humor that is to haue a prety good lik●ng of my selfe 1 The church of Infidels can in no sort be the Church of God 2 But the Popish Church is the church of infidells Ergo. Remember I pray you that I speake 〈◊〉 here of a Church of insidels not that among insidels there is or may be a church for that is nothing to the matter no more is that That vnder the Papacie there is a Church as M. Some tells vs of that poore Church that is there held vnder captiuitie and that many of them in th' agonies and conflictes of death did wholly cleaue to the crosse of Christ that numbers of them forsooth held the foundation that is Iesus Christ. c. which as they be misteries that noe man doubts of so wee answere your D. that looke howe many of them did so indeede looke howe many of them claue wholly and thoroughly as he saith to the Crosse of Christ without wauering so many of them say we were noe longer papists as a Iewe by profession in what moment of hower soeuer he forsakes his Iudaisme and cleaues to the Messias at the same very moment is he no longer a Iewe but a christian otherwise it is not possible that either a papist continuing a papist or a Iewe continuing a Iewe shoulde holde the foundation Therefore the Maior is cleare that The Church of Insidells continuing Insidels can in noe sort be the Church of God The minor is D. Fulks whose lerned judgment hauing so notably deserued of this Church of England if we should nowe for once vse it not set against the bare authoritie of Calvin or Beza in this case I doe not see that it woulde be any greate prejudice or disparagement to any These be his words The catholike Church of Christ whereof the Church of England is a part is an invizible Church c. Contrariwise the Popish Church which is vizible is the church of Insidels Rome which is vppon earth is the mother of all Antichristians Nay but for spending of time it should manifestly appeare vnto you that there were nothing more easie then to dash this assertion of M. Somes in peeces and to proue against all the worlde that The Popish Church is not as he and some others woulde haue it a stained corrupted an vnsound Church but flatly noe Church of God at al For howe if a man shoulde reason thus 1 That Church that denieth the foundation of our saluation can in no sort be the church of God at al 2. But the popish Church denieth the foundation of our salvation Ergo. Taking the Maior to be so cleare that noe man of judgmente can denie it without some checke to his owne hart and conscience I would easily for neede neuer goe farther confirme my Minor by the sacred inviolable authority of M. Bridges Scilicet si sanum haberet Sinciput that is if his braine were in temper or his judgment were woorth a marginal note For he setts downe plainly in one place That the Church of