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A92612 Some papers given in by the Commissioners of the Parliament of Scotland, to the Honourable Houses of the Parliament of England in answer to their votes of the 24. of September 1646. Concerning the disposing of His Majesties person.; Proceedings. 1646-9 Scotland. Convention of Estates.; England and Wales. Parliament. 1646 (1646) Wing S1344; ESTC R232198 15,712 31

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appear by the severall Papers about that purpose yet extant The Kingdom of Scotland did foresee and consider how prejudiciall it was to forsake their own Peace and what infinite troubles losses and unavoidable danger their engagement with the Parliament of England against so powerfull and prevailing an Enemy would bring upon the Kingdom of Scotland And as they regarded not the large offers nor the threats of the other side for all their prosperity so there was no offer of pay or other worldly advantage whatsoever from the Houses of Parliament which could have induced them to undertake so hazardous and desperate a War It was the good of Religion King and Kingdomes they set before their eyes in order to which end they accounted nothing too dear unto them And having resolved to engage in this Cause for assistance of their Brethren therein they did not stand upon conditions But without respect to the season of the yeer the great strength of the Enemy and other discouragements They did in a short time leavy an Army at their own charge And because of the many burdens then lying upon this Kingdom were content for the present to accept of a sum toward the Monethly entertainment of that Army amounting to little more then half pay and to supersede all further recommence till the War should be at an end And seeing the Kingdom of Scotland was to quite their own Peace and equally with England to undergo the hazard of the War it was found reasonable that the prosecution thereof and the making of the conditions of Peace after the Warre should be with joynt advice and consent of both Kingdoms And according to these grounds a Covenant was agreed upon for the Reformation of Religion and for preservation of the Liberties of the Kingdoms and of the Kings Person and Authority together with a Treaty wherein it is declared that the Scottish Army shall be commanded by a Generall appointed by the Estates of Scotland and shall be subject to such resolutions and directions as are and shall be mutually agreed upon and concluded between the Kingdoms or their Committees in that behalf appointed for pursuance of the ends of the Covenant of which one is to defend and preserve his Majesties Person Object 2. That the King is in England and therefore to be disposed of by both Houses of Parliament and cannot be disposed of by the Scottish Army And though the Kingdome of Scotland may pretend to an interest and power in the disposing of the King yet they can have no exercise of that power in England And albeit the Scottish Army according to the Treaty between the Kingdomes be only subject to such resolutions as are mutually agreed upon by both Kingdomes or their Committees appointed in that behalf yet this is only to be understood in ordering and regulating of the Scottish Forces for prosecuting the warre and the Treaty extends no further Answ Although His Majesties riding one dayes journey might wholly subvert the grounds of this objection Yet wee shall not insist upon this answer because we conceive it toucheth not the true state of the question It hath been already cleered what is not and what is the state of the question which being remembred wee doe assert that the King comming voluntarily to the Scottish Army they cannot in duety deliver him against his will to the Houses of Parliament without consent of the Kingdome of Scotland For the being in England takes not away the relation between the King and His Subjects of the Kingdome of Scotland nor ought it to impede the performance of the mutuall dueties founded upon that relation For alledgeance hath no limitation of place being grounded upon the Law of Nature aswell as the law Municipall and so is rather universall then locall The difference of plate takes not away the relation and mutuall dueties between parents and children And it is not the place but the relation which gives interest to the disposing of the Person of the King As his being in England takes not away the relation between him and his Subjects of Scotland so it doth not infringe the mutuall obligations and solemn engagements between the Kingdomes for joynt counsells in prosecution of the War and settling of the peace The Kings coming to the Scottish Army being an emergency of our joynt warre and the right disposall of his Person the onely meane for the present of our joynt security and peace Neither can the Kings being in England prejudge any right or priviledge of either Kingdome It is the fundamentall right and priviledge of the Parliament of Scotland and the liberty of that Kingdome as wee acknowledge it to be the right and priviledge of the Kingdome of England that the person of their King ought not to be disposed of but with their advice and consent The place of the Kings residence as was answered to us when in the large Treaty it was desired His Majesty might sometimes reside in Scotland is at his own election in either of the Kingdomes as the exigence of affairs shall require and he shall think fit Or else must be determined by the mutuall advice and consent of both Kingdomes From all which grounds it is apparent that the Kingdom where he resides for the time may doe no Act which may hinder His Majesty to performe the office and duety of a King to the Kingdom from which he is absent in Person Nor impede him to repair to that Kingdome when the affairs thereof shall necessarily require it Otherwise if the Kingdome where His Majestie resides hath the sole interest and right to dispose of His Person the Estates of the Parliament of Scotland might upon former occasions and may now in case the King and Prince shall repair to Scotland lawfully detain them there and make it the place of the ordinary residence of them and their posterity without the consent of the Kingdome of England Which we acknowledge could not be done without a manifest prejudice and injury to this Kingdome Wherefore we cannot but conclude that wheresoever the King be in Scotland or England he being the King of both ought to be disposed of for the good and with the consent of both Kingdomes And if it be considered that the Scottish Army was invited and called into this Kingdome by both Houses in a Treaty for prosecuting the ends of a solemne League and Covenant whereof one is to preserve and defend His Majesties Person there can remaine no doubt concerning the exercise of that right and interest in this Kingdome And therefore it seems very strange that when upon invitation they are come into England as for other ends So to defend His Majesties Person their being in England should be made use of as an argument why they should deliver up the Person of their King to be disposed of as both Houses shall think fit Whereas it is alledged that the Treaty extends no further then to the ordering and regulating of the Scottish Forces
in relation to the warre Although this be really answered from the nature of the thing the Kings coming to the Scottish Army being an emergency of the warre and so the delivering of His Person comes under the regulation and direction of both Kingdomes or their Committees as an Act of the Scottish Army Yet that all doubt may be removed wee further adde that it is cleere from the third Article of the Treaty that the Scottish Army is to receive the Directions of both Kingdoms or of their Committees in all things which may concern the pursuance of the ends of the Covenant and Treaty whether in relation to Peace or Warre In the 8th Article of the Treaty no Cessation Pacification or agreement for Peace whatsoever is to be made by either Kingdom or the Army of either Kingdom without the advice and consent of both Kingdoms And in the 9th Article all differences arising between the Subjects of the two Nations are to be resolved and determined by the mutuall advice and consent of both Kingdoms Object 3. That the Scottish Armie did carry away the King from the Leaguer before Newark when there was a Committee of both Houses there without seeking their consent and that they have since disposed of him without consent of the Houses of Parliament whereas by the Treatie they ought to do nothing without a joynt resolution of both Kingdoms or their Committees Answ No sooner did the King come into the Scottish Army but the very same day the Committee of Estates of Scotland residing with that Army did acquaint the Commissioners of both Houses therewith And not satisfying themselves with this the day following they wrote a Letter to the Committee of Scotland residing at Edinburgh and another to the Committee of both Kingdoms here which was communicated to both Houses desiring the advice of this Kingdome as in a matter of common interest and declaring they would obey the joynt resolutions of both Kingdoms Yet no answer or advice was returned unto them either from the Houses or their Commissioners But immediatly after the surrender of Newark they received information that five thousand Horse and Dragoons from Sir Thomas Fairfax his Army were upon their March towards them Northward which the honourable House of Peers was pleased to give order to stop there being no Enemy in those parts to be opposed Upon consideration whereof the Quarters wherein they had stayed during the siege of Newark being extreamly exhausted and the Service for which they came thither being performed for preventing mistakes or new troubles between the Kingdoms They removed into Tork shire and the King as he came unto them of his owne accord did voluntarily March along with them Upon severall occasions afterwards They and we did earnestly desire the honourable Houses to send a Committee to joyn and co-operate with the Committee of Estates there upon the place in all things according to the Treaty But no answer was returned And from time to time the Houses were acquainted with the proceedings in that Army which were according to the Covenant and the known resolutions of both Kingdoms to debarre all such of both or either Kingdoms as had been in Arms against the Parliament from coming into their Quarters or to the Court or to the Kings Person according to the desire of the House of Peers And whereas it is affirmed That by the Treaty the Scottish Army ought to do nothing without a joynt resolution of both Kingdoms or their Committees There is no such Clause in the Treaty but they are to be subject to such resolutions as are and shall be agreed upon and concluded mutually between the Kingdoms or their Committees as by Ordinance of Parliament the Army under the command of the Earle of Essex or of Sir Thomas Fairfax was to receive and observe the Directions of the Committee of both Kingdoms sitting at Westminster But in case no new Directions were sent unto them they were left to former Orders if any were or otherwise to their own judgement and discrection There was never any such resolution agreed upon between the Kingdoms or their Committees as that the Scottish Army should not receive the King if he came unto them but it is an agreement between the Kingdoms in the Covenant that they should preserve and defend his Majesties person And in the Declarations of both Kingdoms to rescue him from the common Enemy So that the Scottish Armie having often desired to know the direction and advice of the Houses of Parliament concerning the King and no new Directions being signified unto them According to the Treaty they were to observe the Directions and Resolutions formerly agreed upon between the Kingdoms And as the Scottish Army do and will ever acknowledge that they claim no power to dispose of the Kings Person but are subject to and shall be ready to follow low whatsoever both Kingdoms shall agree upon as best for the King and Kingdoms so their keeping and p●eserving his Majesties Person as they would do to any person of his eminency and relation in an Army or Garrison Town without the least thought of hindering his voluntary return to his Parliament cannot be reputed or called a disposing of his person Object 4. If any Peere of England go to the Scottish Armie and desire their Protection can he not be disposed of without the consent of the Committee of Estates of the Kingdom of Scotland residing with that Army Answ There is a wide and manifest difference betwixt the relation the Scottish Armie hath to any Subject of England and the relation they have to their King which are sufficiently distinguished in the third and fourth Articles of the Covenant for by the one they are mutually obliged to preserve and defend his Majesties Person and by the other they are mutually obliged to endeavour that all Incendiaries and dividers betwixt the King and his people or betwixt the Kingdoms be brought to tryall and condigne punishment before the supream Judicatories of the Kingdoms respectively And the Kingdom of Scotland hath equall right and interest with the Kingdom of England in the disposal of the Person of the King which they cannot pretend unto concerning the Person of any Subject of England Object 5. That seeing it is alleadged by us that the disposing of the Kings Person comes in place of a Peace then the receiving of the King into the Scottish Armie without consent of the Houses is aequivalent to the making of a Peace without consent of the Kingdome of England contrary to the eighth Article of the Treatie Answ It hath been sufficiently answered before that the Scottish Army neither hath nor will take upon them to dispose of the King He came unto them without Capitulation or Treaty his residence with them is voluntary and free and they do nothing which may hinder him to come to his Houses of Parliament But if the kingdom of Scotland should consent to the desire of the Houses that they may
have the sole disposall of the Person of the King It being that which comes in the place of the Peace and security of both kingdoms They will really quite the right and interest they have by the eighth Article of the Treaty concerning the making of a Peace for which soever of the kingdoms is acknowledged to have the sole disposall of the King may without the other make Peace with him when how and in what terms they please Object 6. That England is a free Nation and in former times it was in the power of the Parliament of England to dispose of their Kings And if one Kingdome pretend to a joynt right of disposing of the King while he is in the other it is to entrench upon the former liberty of that Kingdome That the Kingdome of Scotland have no reason to distrust the Houses of Parliament who when the King shall be in their power will not dispose of him otherwise then may consist with their duety according to the Covenant and Treaty between the Kingdoms Answ We will not dispute what power the Houses of Parliament formerly had to dispose of the Person of their King but whatsoever power or right they have the like is due to the Parliament of Scotland And so the Person of the King being common to both and indivisible cannot be disposed of but by consent of both kingdoms It were another question indeed if it were as in former times if we had different Kings if there were not an Union of the kingdoms under one head and Monarch if there were neither Covenant nor Treaty between the kingdoms But since all these are and that the peace and security of both kingdomes is so much concerned in the disposall of the King not any one of them without the other can justly pretend to the sole judgement and right to determine what is best and most expedient for the safety and security of both Nor can it in reason be made an argument that the one Kingdome distrusts the other because the one will not renounce and resigne all right and interest they have in the person of the King and matter of their own security and peace to the judgement and determination of the other otherwise according to this Argument where there is any trust there should be no contract between person and person nor Treaty between Nations Or if there be any Treaty or agreement the performance or not performance of it is to be left to arbitrement But we cannot see that this doth argue any diffidence or distrust trust more then when private persons lending money to the Publike desire security and will not depend upon pleasure And therefore though it is not to be questioned but the houses of Parliament would dispose of the Person of the King so as might consist with their dutie in performing the Covenant and Treaty Yet this can be no argument why the Scottish Armie should neglect their dutie or the kingdome of Scotland quite the interest and right they have in the person of the King Object 7. That the King is in the possession of the Scottish Armie and though a joint advice and consent of both Kingdoms be urged for his disposall Yet if the Houses of Parliament agree not to what Scotland shall desire the King doth still remain in the power of the Scotts Armie and so the Parliament of England hath no consent Answ If this argument were turned over the strength or weaknesse of it may the more easily appear Suppose the King were here at Westminster it may be upon the same grounds urged that the kingdom of Scotland would have no consent in his disposall And so much the more that the Houses claime the sole interest and judgement to dispose upon the Kings Person which we desire may be done joyntly as may be best for the security and safety of both kingdoms And we see no reason why it may not now be determined when he is in the Scottish Armie who are intrusted by both and subject to the resolution of both kingdoms as well as heereafter since he came thither of his own accord and his residence there is voluntary And if his Majestie shall think fit to repair hither to his Houses of Parliament they shall do no act which may either hinder or disswade him but cannot constrain him or deliver him to the Houses to be disposed of as they shall think fit It may now abundantly appear from the grounds and considerations before expressed that the Scottish Armie may not deliver up his Majesties Person to be disposed of by the one Kingdom without the consent of the other Upon supposition whereof we shall in the next place without presuming to prescribe wayes or impose conditions expresse our selves concerning some expedients which in reference to his Majestie deserve to be looked upon considered of and compared together where we shall onely premise this much That whatever way shall be taken if the right end be looked at his Majesties Person ought to be so disposed of as may serve most for the safety and happinesse of the King himself and for the common Peace and security of the Kingdoms United in this Cause by the solemn League and Covenant And as may best agree with their dutie Covenant and Treaties These ends being before our eyes although it be most eligible and best of all that His Majestie should without further delay forthwith give satisfaction in the Propositions of Peace which hath been with all instancy pressed not only by us but by all the judicatories of the Kingdom of Scotland and so returne fully reconciled to His Houses of Parliament Yet since to our unspeakable grief this this hath not been as yet obtained Wee doe propose that His Majesties coming to London or to some of his houses neer London with safety freedome and honour which is desired by himself that hee may be heard And that upon the cleering of his doubts he may knowingly give a satisfactory answer to the Propositions is much better then the other wayes which may be expected in case this His Majesties desire be not agreed unto As for His Majesties going to Ireland or other-where beyond Sea It could not be the way to a present peace now so much desired but would certainly prognosticate new troubles Lastly His Majesties coming hither or neer this place is a more probable and hopefull way to preserve the Union of the Kingdomes because the Enemy being still in Armes in Scotland and expecting supplies from Ireland and the Kingdome disabled by their great sufferings to intertaine an Army for suppressing the malignant party It were much more easie to raise new Forces there to the disturbance of the peace of this Kingdome then it could be here where by the blessing of God all the Forces and Garrisons of the Enemy are subdued and where it will not be so difficult to hinder delinquents from accesse to His Majesty The dangers and inconveniencies of any of these other wayes
do so much preponderate and the present condition of affairs doth so much differ from that time when both Houses with our concurrence did disagree from His Majesties desire of comming to London at which time he had both Garrisons and field Forces unreduced that it may be conceived not only safe but as things stand most convenient to agree to His Majesties coming to London or neer it upon such conditions and assurances from him as shall be by joynt resolution found necessary for preventing the accesse of delinquents to His Majestie or any intestine commotion or forraine invasion to the disturbance of the peace of either Kingdome We trust it might accelerate a happy peace bring the present differences to an end and be no grief of heart afterwards if upon such terms and conditions both Houses should be pleased to revive and renew such an invitation and assurance upon their part as was contained in their answer to His Majesties Message of the 11. of Septemb. 1642. where after mention made of their chief grievance it was added All this notwithstanding as we never gave your Majesty any just cause of withdrawing your selfe from your great Councell So it hath ever been and shall ever be farre from us to give any impediment to your returne or to neglect any proper means of curing the distempers of the Kingdom and closing the dangerous breaches betwixt your Majesty and your Parliament according to the great trust which lies upon us And if your Majestie shall now be pleased to come back to your Parliament without your Forces we shall be ready to secure your royall Person Crown and dignity with out lives and fortunes Your presence in this great Councell being the only means of any Treaty betwixt your Majesty and them with hope of successe Divers such passages there are in the Declarations of both Houses which we shall not need to mention But if the Houses of Parliament shall not agree to His Majesties desire of coming hither with safety freedome and honour We offer to be considered in the next place whether it be not expedient that once again Commissioners be sent to His Majesty in name of both Kingdomes with power to hear his desires and to endeavour the satisfaction of doubts and scruples with intimation also That if His Majestie shall not give satisfaction in the Propositions both Kingdomes will without any more such applications consult and joyntly resolve upon other wayes of their safety and security And upon the other part that if His Majesty will be now at last graciously pleased to satisfie the desires of both Kingdoms His Majesties Throne with his just power and greatnesse shall be established aswel as the peace and security of his Subjects All which we doe propound in a brotherly freedome not being peremtorily wedded or addicted to any expedient that we have offered but if the honourable Houses in their wisdome shall be pleased to think of any other expedient which shall bee for the good safety and honour of the King and Kingdomes We shall be most willing and ready to agree unto it when it shall be made known unto us not doubting but that in the faithfull and conscionable use of all good and possible means which may prevent differences between the Kingdomes there will be at last a sweet and brotherly agreement in such a conclusion as shall be good in Gods eyes and wherein both Kingdomes shall finde greatest comfort and happinesse By command of the Commissioners for the Parliament of Scotland Jo. Cheislie FINIS