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earth_n	let_v	lord_n	see_v	5,607	5	3.6795	3	true

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A17036	An ansvvere to Master Cartvvright his letter for ioyning with the English Churches: whereunto the true copie of his sayde letter is annexed.	Browne, Robert, ca. 1550-1633.; Cartwright, Thomas, 1535-1603.; Harrison, Robert, d. 1585?, attributed name.	1585 (1585)	STC 3909; ESTC S109433	77,571	102

the name of God figured the visible Church of god so that this matter toucheth M. C. very neerely For if it be true that as all sacrifices then so all sacraments now are rebellion against the Lord being ministred without the visible Church of God then that sinne which he calleth a fault shalbe found to be more then a fault euen rebellion falling away from the Lord. And this is a sinne of execration euen abomination in the eies of the Lord to measure the visible church of god by a compasse of ground by a nūber of housholdes by slint of tythes tenthes as we see in our parishes For the place maketh not the church neither is the church or true religiō to be measured by the place as Christ him selfe teacheth vs for neither in the mountaine where the father worshipped neither yet at Ierusale the citie of god was God any more to be worshipped but the true worshippers shall worship the father in spirit truth By which words Christ meaneth thus much first that the spirit trueth being shewed by the outward good profession declare the outwarde Church of God and not the places neither temples nor cities nor parishes For in whome we see the spirit that is the graces of the spitit by their outward good works and the trueth that is the lawes and word of Christ which is true to be kept obserued them only we must call the Church of God And therefore in Isaiah it was shewed before● that with those only which turne from iniquitie in Iacob will the Lord make his couenant euen his spirite which is vpon them and his words which he hath put in their mouth Secondly by those wordes Christ teacheth that al the Iewish ceremonies shuld be abolished because the chiefest euen Ierusalem and the Temple should be no more For the temple at Ierusalem circumcision were the chiefest How great the citie and the Temple were it appeareth by that prayer of Salomon 1. Kinges 8. 29. And by sundry other places Deuteronom 12. 11. Ierem. 3. 17. Ezek. 43. 7. c. And of circumcision Paul reasoneth with the Galatians That if they be circumcised they are bounde to keepe the whole ceremoniall lawe for it being one of the chiefest ceremonies if they still obserued it they should also obserue all the rest but if they reiected the chiefest they should also reiect all the rest And to that ende Christ reasoneth that seeing all things are nowe to be verified in spirit and trueth therefore all ceremoniall and superstitious worship shoulde cease As also Paul reasoneth That if they be led by the spirit they are not vnder the ceremonies of the lawe So then it appeareth that tithings because they were ceremonies belong not to the Church And because such abomination is committed by them namely the due planting and gathering of the church is hindred and the libertie of the Church for remouing euil ministers stopped they are euen the execrable things which Achan did steale For if the common wealth as it ought had long agoe taken from the ministerie those tenthes and Popish liuings then Iericho being once destroyed I meane the Antichristian churches once put downe had not so soone bene built againe but nowe such tythings benefices and Bishoprickes remaining they haue builded by them an other Iericho in steade of the first in deede somewhat differing from the first but as contrary to Gods church and holy citie as was the first yea and Master Cartwright also wil iustifie that execrable stealth of Achan and call Iericho I meane those woefull assemblies and Parishes the visible church and citie of God But cursed be the man before the Lord saith Ioshua that riseth vp and buildeth againe this citie Iericho he shall lay the foundation thereof in his eldest sonne in his yongest sonne shall he set vp the gates of it Satan is that enuious and malitious man which hath builded againe this citie his eldest sonnes were the first beginners of this lamentable state whome God did afterwarde scourge and cal to repentance in the time of Queene Marie and brake their enterprise and his youngest sonnes are these latter reformers whome God also will certainely plague except they repēt But to come againe to Master Cartwrights proofe let him not say that we count any assembly whether they haue a dumbe minister o● haue none to be the outwarde Churches of God except they keepe the couenant by the outwarde discipline and gouernement of the Church Further Master Cartwright saith that in such assemblyes the dumbe minister is not chiefe but Christ and that wee make nothing of the dumbe minister and yet will needes haue him to be the head of those Churches Indeede we make nothing of him concerning any goodnes that is by him for he helpeth nothing thereto but concerning the mischiefe and hurt which he doeth or the sinne that is by him let him not say wee make nothing of it For if they be beastes as it is written so that by their want of vnderstanding and conscience the flockes of the pastour be scattered and perish shall we say it is nothing If they be those foolish shepheardes whome the Lorde saith by Zecharie he will raise vp in iudgement to sell and to slay the sheepe to eate the flesh of the fat and to teare them in pieces which also shall not looke for them that are lost nor seeke the tender lambes nor heale that is hurt nor feede them but rather feede them selues vpon their flesh shall we make nothing of such ministers But go to he sayeth that Christ is the head of those assemblyes and not the dumbe ministers That Christ is their head or foūdation he can not prooue as was shewed before wherefore for any thing he can prooue the dumbe ministers in the absence of the Bishops and their officers are the chiefe and heades ouer them That they are alwayes chiefe we saide it not for when the Bishoppes which are greater vsurpers are present then they are heades and both the dumbe ministers and hireling preachers may serue well ynough to bee the tayle For Satan hath all wayes by such as by the taile of the dragon drawing the third part of the starres of heauen and cast them to the earth What shall we vnderstande by heauen but the shewe of the church as it were set in heauen by the starres but the children of the church falling to wickednes and loosing their light Such are the people of those assemblies whom Satan hath cast vpon the earth as starres ●out light He bringeth another proofe by Corah and his company For they saith he were not cast foorth of the lords host by Moses therefore should not these assemblyes also which haue a dumbe minister thrust vpon them be reputed for runnegates from the Lorde well let vs see was not in deede Corah with those that claue to him put apart from the hoste

the outward Church when there is a wicked profession contrary to the doctrine of faith Againe a man may beleeue be wonne to faith by meanes of some godly brother and that before he haue outwardly ioyned him selfe to the Church so in gods secret election he is of the church yet because he hath not the outwarde profession can not be sayde to be the outwarde Church But here Master Cartwright though he dare not iustifie the blind reading Ministers yet he doeth praise them as doing some good But of this matter also it followeth afterwarde to intreate as whether he that doeth so much hurt and mischiefe can be saide to doe any good at all Likewise it is a trifling to no purpose that he sayth the Church ceaseth not when a minister faileth or wanteth for we knowe that euen two or three agreeing together in the trueth separate from wickednesse if none other will ioyne with them euen they are an outwarde and visible Church and haue this power of Christ euen to binde men on earth and to loose them on earth that they may be bound or loosed in heauen For though by persecution they be driuen into corners yet their good profession is outward and visible in it selfe and yet hidden from their enemies which are vnworthy to see it for the church may increase into thousandes and decrease also in this worlde euen to a litle householde and to foure or fiue persons For Ierusalem fell away and became as Sodome and Egypt and the Lorde did blot out the whole name and church of the Iewes and called his people by another name as it is written Isay 65. Actes 11. But in these latter dayes it is prophecied that the Church shoulde be small hidden and driuen into corners So that as in Noas time eight persons onely escaped euen so when the sonne of man shall come he shall not finde faith on the earth those dayes before his comming shall be so hard that scarce any flesh shall be saued Indeed one person will not make a church for the Church must needes be a number but where two or three are gathered together in the name of Christ there is he in the middes of them And the housholde of Philemon is named a Church Likewise the housholde of Olymphis of Aquila Priscilla and others For if they haue the power which Paul calleth the power of our Lorde Iesus Christ and doe meete together fewe or moe in the Name of Christ they are surely the Church of Christ. Therefore this doctryne is still agaynst Master Cartwright for neyther the word in the preachers mouth nor the Sacraments can make an outwarde Church except they haue the power of Christ to separate the vnworthye For Master C. confesseth that the name of a Church shall remayne though the preacher and his preaching doe cease and is wanting for a tyme. But without this power of binding that is of declaring mens wickednes and forsaking their fellowshippe to leaue them vnto Satan being open and grieuous offendours there is no name nor shewe of the church of Christ remaining If he demaunde proofe hereof the scriptures are manifest For God hath giuen this power not onely to the preachers but to all the saintes of god as appeareth by that Psalme namely By the worde of god in their mouthes to binde euen the Kings and nobles of the earth and to execute vpon them his spirituall iudgement the text followeth that this honour shall be to all the Saintes Wherefore it is not peculiar to some one or to ●ome fewe alone but it belongeth to all yea this is the heritage of all the Lordes seruants as Isaiah testifieth In deede it is true that we ought ioyntly to execute this power but if others will not or bee in bondage that they can not ioyne with vs therein then they are not the Church but the bondslaues of men For this power belongeth to euery one seuerally to forsake wicked fellowship and there is a cōmandement giuen to euery one to forsake the vnfruitfull workes of darkenesse to be no companions with such to haue no fellowshippe with them to withdraw our selues from euery brother that walketh inordinately yea and to turne away from all which hauing a shew of godlinesse doe deny the power thereof For if we walke in darknes and say we haue fellowship with god we lye sayth S. Iohn and doe not truely But if we walke in the light we haue fellowship one with another otherwise that fellowship holdeth not And in Hosea commandement is giuen vnto all euen to pleade against the mother church if it fal away that as god doth forsake it so euery one also should stand against it if it become abhominable And so also all are commanded to saue them selues from a froward generation But it may be here obiected howe we answere to the place in Matth. 18 that we must complaine to the Church and then if the offender heare not the Church we must take him for a heathen and publican I grant that if the offence be priuate he must be first priuately dealt with But this proueth not that either for priuate or open offences we must waite on them for redresse which are enemies of the Church and which haue no power to binde and lose as hath the church Wherefore let not Master Cartwright accompt so much of the assemblyes he speaketh of for what is a Church without this power we spake of yea what are those assemblies which in steade of it do holde that Antichristian power of the spirituall courtes or rather are helde in bondage by it But Master Cartwright alloweth not onely those assemblies but also those vile courtes and officers and Bishoppes set ouer them to be all the Church of God For he sayeth afterwarde namely in the sixt page that the calling of the dumbe ministers whichis by them is a calling of the church and sufficient to make them ministers yea and he seemeth to allowe also their suspendings of preachers as if it were done by the Church so that both for complaint and for redresse of defaults for establishing and gathering the churches hee alloweth or tollerateth those officers and courtes to haue the power and authoritie of the church But God hath appointed no such kinde of complaintes in the Church neither such kinde of redresse nor ordering of matters First because they redresse and order matters by money Brybes Fees Ciuill penaltyes c. wherein the Church discipline ought not to meddle For the weapons of our warefare sayeth Paul are not carnall He meaneth that the Church maye not deale in matters of reformation as doeth the common wealth and this present worlde The Church can deale no further then onely by rebuke warning and exhortation out of gods worde and by forsaking casting of fellowship in grosser sinnes And therefore rightly may the word and his