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A38571 Twenty-two select colloquies out of Erasmus Roterodamus pleasantly representing several superstitious levities that were crept into the Church of Rome in his days.; Colloquia. Selections. English Erasmus, Desiderius, d. 1536.; L'Estrange, Roger, Sir, 1616-1704. 1689 (1689) Wing E3213; ESTC R6620 185,131 300

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the Reason that the Good works of Monks caeteris Paribus are more acceptable to God than those of Other People because they spring from that Root Ph. We shall not make it a question in This place the Merit of a mans Dedicating himself wholly to God when he is no longer in his own Power Every Christian as I take it delivers himself up wholly to God in his Baptism when he Renounces the Devil and all his Works the Pomps and Vanities of the Wicked World and all the Sinful Lusts of the Flesh and lists himself a Souldier to fight under Christ's Banner to his Lives End. And St. Paul speaking of those that Die with Christ that they may live no longer to Themselves but to Him that is Dead for them does not mean This of Monks only but of all Christians Th. You have minded me seasonably of our Baptism but in times past if they were but Sprinkled at the last Gasp there was hope yet promis'd them of Salvation Ph. 'T is no great matter what the Bishops promise but it is a matter of great uncertainty what God will vouchsafe to Do For if there went no more to Salvation than the Sprinkling of a little Water what a Gap were there open'd to all sorts of Carnal Appetites and License When men had spent their lives and their strength in Wickedness till they could sin no longer two or three drops of Water would set all Right again Now if the same Rule holds in your Profession and This Baptism it would make well for the Security of the Wicked if they might Live to Satan and Die to Christ. Th. Nay if a man may speak what he hears of the Seraphique Mystery the professing of a Franciscan is more Efficacious than his Baptism Ph. What is 't ye say Th. Only our Sins are wash'd away in Baptism but the Soul tho' it be purg'd is left naked But he that is invested with This Profession is presently endow'd with the Merits and Sanctimony of the whole Order as being Grafted into the Body of the most Holy Sodality Ph. And what do ye think of him that is by Baptism ingrafted into the Body of Christ Is he never the better neither for the Head nor for the Body Th. He 's nothing at all the better for this Seraphique Body unless he entitle himself to it by some special Bounty or Favour Ph. From what Angel I beseech ye had they this Revelation Th. From what Angel do ye say Why St. Francis had This and a great deal more Face to Face from Christ himself Ph. Now as thou hast any kindness for me in the World tell me for the Love of God what were those Discourses Th. Alas those Holy and Profound Secrets are not for Profane Ears Ph. Why Profane I pre'thee For I have ever been a Friend to this Seraphique Order as much as to any other Th. But for all That you give 'em shrewd Wipes sometimes Ph. That 's a sign of Love Theotimus The great Enemies of the Order are the Professors of it Themselves that by Ill Lives bring a scandal upon the Habit. And That man does not love it that is not offended with the Corruptors of it Th. But I 'm afraid St Francis will take it ill if I should blab any of his Secrets Ph. And why should ye fear That from so Innocent a Person Th. Well well But what if I should lose my Eyes or run Mad upon t As I am told m●ny have done only for denying the Print of the Five Wounds Ph. Why then the Saints are worse natur'd in Heaven than they were upon Earth We are told that St. Francis was of so meek a Disposition that when the Boys in the streets would be playing the Rogues with his Cowl as it hung down at his Back and throwing Milk Cheese Dirt Stones at it the Saint walkt on Cheerfull and Pleasant without any Concern at all And shall we believe him Now then to be Chollerique and Revengefull One of his Companions once call'd him Thief Sacrilegious a Murtherer an Incestuous Sot and all the Villains in the world His Reply was only that he gave him thanks and confess'd himself Guilty But one of the Company wondering at such an Acknowledgment I had done worse than all this says St. Francis if God's Grace had not Restrained me How comes St Francis now then to be Vindictive Th. So it is for tho' the Saints will bear any thing upon Earth they 'l take no Affronts in Heaven Was ever any man Gentler than Cornelius Milder than Anthony or more Patient than Iohn the Baptist when they liv'd upon Earth but now they are in Heaven if we do not worship them as we ought what Diseases do they send among us Ph. For my own Part I am of Opinion that they rather Cure our Diseases than Cause them But however assure your self that what ye say to me is spoken to a man that 's neither Profane nor a Blab Th. Go to then I will tell ye in Confidence what I have heard as to this Matter Be it spoken without offence to St. Francis or the Society St. Paul ye know was endu'd with a Profound and Hidden Wisdom which he never publish'd but only whisper'd it in Private to those Christians that were perfected So have these Seraphiques certain Mysteries also that they do not make Common but only communicate them in private to Rich Widows and other Choice and Godly People that are well-willers to the Society Ph. How do I long for the Opening of this Holy Revelation Ph. It was at first foretold by the Lord to the Seraphique Patriarch that the more the Society increased the more Provision he would make for them Ph. So that at first dash Here 's that Complaint answer'd that their Growing so Numerous is a Grievance of the People Th. And then he revealed this further too that upon his Anniversary Festival all the Souls of That Fraternity and not only Those that were of the Clothing but the Souls of their Friends also should be deliver'd from the Fire of Purgatory Ph. But was Christ so familiar with St. Francis Th He was as Free with him as one Friend or Companion is with another As God the Father in former times Communed with Moses Moses receiv'd the Law first from God himself and then deliver'd it to the People Our Saviour published the Gospel and St. Francis had two Copies of his Peculiar Law under the Hands of an Angel which he deliver'd to That S●raphique Fraternity Ph. Now do I look for a Third Revelation Th. That famous Patriarch fearing now that when the Good Seed was sown the Enemy should come while men slept and sowing Tares among the Wheat they should both be pluckt up together St. Francis was eas'd of This Scruple by a Promise from the Lord that he would take Care that this Tribe of Half-shodd and Rope-girt People should never fail so long as the World endur'd Ph. Why what a Merciful
the Neighbourhood so that I must take my Nagg and be gone Ti. Mony perhaps Eu. I should be loath to leave such Friends for Money Ti. Perhaps you are call'd a Hunting Eu. A kind of Hunting indeed but not for Bores or Stags Ti. What then Eu. I 'le tell ye I have a Friend in a Village hard by that lies dangerously sick The Physitian fears his Life but I 'm in more fear of his Soul for he is not so well compos'd for his end as a Christian should be I 'le go give him some Counsel that he may be the better for live or dye In another Village there are two men bitterly at Odds and no ill men neither but obstinate to the highest degree If the difference be exasperated I 'm afraid it may run into a Feud they 're both my Kinsmen and I 'le do all I can in the world to reconcile ' em This is my Hunting and if I succeed in 't we 'l drink their Healths Ti. A Christian Employment Heaven prosper ye in it Eu. I had rather have them Friends than two thousand Duckets Ti. We shall see you again by and by Eu. Not till I have made all Tryals so that I cannot set an hour In the Interim enjoy one another and be Happy Ti. God be with you forward and backward THE MARRIAGE HATER COL VII A Girl takes a Phansie to a Cloyster Her Parents Violently against it and she her self in great Affliction for want of their Consent A Friend Disswades her and lays before her the Snare and Danger of that Course of Life the Cheats Artifices and Abuses of the Monks Preaches Obedience to her Parents and advises her rather to Work out her Salvation in her Fathers House then in a Convent EUBULUS CATHARINA Eu. I Am e'en so glad Supper 's over that we may go walk 't is so delicate an Evening Ca. And I was so Dog-weary of sitting too Eu. How Heaven and Earth smile upon one another The Spring of the year makes the World look young again Ca. So it does Eu. ●ut why is it not Spring with you too Ca. What 's your meaning Eu. Because methinks you are a little off the hooks Ca. Why sure I look as I use to do Eu. Shall I tell ye now how 't is with ye Ca. With all my Heart Eu. Do ye see this Rose how it droops and contracts it self now towards night Ca. Well I se●'t and what then 'T is your very Picture Ca. A gay Resemblance Eu. If you will not believe me look only into this Fountain What was the matter with you to sit Sighing and Thinking all Supper Ca. Pray'e let 's have no more Questions for the thing does not at all concern you Eu. But by your favour I am very much concern'd when I cannot be merry my self unless you be so too What a Sigh was there now enough to break your heart Ca. Nay there is somewhat that presses me but 't is not a thing to be told Eu. Out with it I prithee and what ever it be upon my Soul thou' rt safe My own Sister is not so dear to me as thou art Ca. Nay I dare swear you would not betray me but the mischief of it is you can do me no good Eu. That 's more then you know As to the Thing it self perhaps I cannot but in the matter of Advice or Consolation 't is possible I may serve ye Ca. It will not come out Eu. What should this be Dost thou not hate me Ca. Less then I do my own dear Brother And yet my heart will not serve me to speak it Eu. Shall I guess at it And will you tell me if I 'm right Nay give me your word or you shall never be quiet and we 'll have no shifting neither Ca. Agreed then I do promise it Eu. Upon the whole matter I cannot so much as imagine why you should not be perfectly happy Ca. I would I were so Eu. Not above seventeen years of Age as I take it the very Flower of your Life Ca. That 's true Eu. So that the fear of Old Age can be no part of your Trouble Ca. Nothing less I assure ye Eu. Every way lovely which is a singular Gift of Heaven Ca. Of my Person such as it is I can neither Glory nor Complain Eu. And then the very habit of your Body and your complexion speak ye in perfect health So that your grief must certainly be some trouble of mind Ca. I have my health very well I thank God. Eu. And then your Credits fair Ca. I should be sorry else Eu. Your Understanding suitable to the Perfections of your Body and as capable of the Blessings of Wisdom as any mortal can wish Ca. Whatever it be it is still the Gift of God Eu. And again for the Graces of your Manners and Conversation a thing rarely met with they are all answerable to the Beauties of your Person Ca. I could wish they were what you are pleas'd to term them Eu. Many people are troubl'd for the meaness of their Extraction but your Parents are both of them well Descended and Virtuous of Plentiful Fortunes and infinitely kind to you Ca. And I have no ground of Affliction here neither Eu. In one word you are the Woman of the World if I were in a condition to pretend to 't that I would wish to make my Wife Ca. And if I would marry any man you are he that I would make my Husband Eu. This Anxiety of Mind must have some extraordinary Foundation Ca. No slight one believe it Eu Will you not take it ill if I guess at it Ca. You have my word that I will not Eu. I know by Experiment the Torments of Love. Confess now is That it Ca. There is Love in the Case but not of that sort you imagine Eu. What kind is it then Ca. Can't you Divine Eu. I have spent all my Divining Faculties But yet I 'll never let go this hand till I have drawn it from ye Ca. You are too Violent Eu. Lay it up in my Breast whatever ' t is Ca. Since there 's no denying of ye I will From my very Infancy I have had a strange kind of Inclination Eu. To what I beseech ye Ca. To put my self into a Cloyster Eu. And turn Nun Ca. That 's the very thing Eu. 'T is well I have digg'd for Silver and I have found Coals Ca. What 's that ye say Eu. Nothing nothing my dear Mol My Cough troubles me Ca. This was my Inclination and my Parents most desperately against it Eu. I hear ye Ca. On the other side I strove as passionately by Entreaties fair Words and Tears to overcome that Pious Aversion Eu. Most wonderful Ca. At length when they saw that I would take no Denial they were prevail'd upon by Importunities Submissions and Lamentations to promise if I continu'd in the same mind till I were seventeen years of age they would leave me to my self
look as if they had not been so long laid 'T is very right Sir says he and what do you think said I of those Cross Beams and Rafters they cannot be near so old He confest they were not At last when I had questioned him to every part of this poor Cottage How do you know said I that this is the House that was brought so far in the Air so many Ages ago Me. Prithee how did he come off there Og. Without any more to do he shew'd us an old Bear-skin that was tackt there to a piece of Timber and almost laught at us to our very teeth as people under an invincible Ignorance Upon seeming better satisfy'd and excusing our heaviness of app●ehension we came then to the Virgins Milk. Me. It is with the Virgins Milk as with her Sons Bloud they have both of them 〈◊〉 more behind them than ever they had in their Bodies Og. And so they tell us of the Cross which is shew'd up and down both in publick and in private in so many Reliques that if all the Fragments were laid together they would load an East-India-ship and yet our Saviour carry'd the whole Cross upon his Shoulders Me. And is not this a wonderful thing too Og. It is extraordinary I must confess but nothing is wonderful to an Almighty Power that can encrease every thing according to his own pleasure Me. 'T is well done however to make the best on 't but I 'm afraid that we have many a Trick put upon us under the Masque of Piety and Religion Og. I cannot think that God himself would suffer such Mockeries to pass unpunisht Me. And yet what 's more common than for the Sacrilegious themselves such is the Tenderness of God to scape in this World without so much as the least Check for their Impieties Og. This is all true but hear me on The Milk that I was speaking of is kept upon the High Altar Christ in the Middle and his Mother for respects sake at his Right hand The Milk you must know represents his Mother Me. Can you see it then Og. Yes for 't is preserv'd in a Chrystal Glass Me. And is it liquid too Og. What do you talk to me of Liquid when 't was drawn above Fifteen hundred year ago It is now come to a Concretion and looks just like pounded Chalk with the White of an Egg. Me. But will they not let a man see it open Og. Not upon any terms Men would be kissing of it and profane it Me. You say very well for all Lips are not fit to approach it Og. So soon as the Officer sees us he runs presently and puts on his Surplice and a Stole about his Neck falls down and Worships and by and by gives us the Holy Milk to kiss and we prostrated our selves too in the first place bowing to Christ and then applying to the Virgin in the following prayer which I had in readiness for this purpose VIrgin Mother That hast deservedly given suck to the Lord of Heaven and Earth thy Son Jesus at thy Virgins Breasts We pray thee that we being purified by his Bloud may our selves arrive at the Happy Infant State of the Simplicity and Innocence of Doves and that being Void of Malice Fraud and Deceit we may daily thirst after the Milk of Evangelical Doctrine until it grows up to be perfect Man and to the Measure of the Fulness of Christ whose blessed Society thou shalt enjoy for ever and ever with the Father and the Holy Ghost Amen Me. Truly a very devout Prayer but what Return Og. If my eyes did not deceive me they were both pleased for the Holy Milk seem'd to leap and sparkle and the Eucharist of a sudden lookt brighter than usual In the mean while the Verger came to us and without a word speaking held out such a kind of Table as they use in Germany upon their Bridges when they take Toll Me. I remember those Tables very well and have curst them many a time in my Travels that way Og. We laid down some pieces of Mony which he presented to the Virgin. After this by our Interpreter one Robert Aldridge as I remember a well spoken young man and a great Master of the English Tongue I askt as civilly as I could what assurance they had that this was the Milk of the Virgin which I did with a pious intention that I might stop the Mouths of all Scoffers and Gainsayers The Officer at first contracted his Brow without a word speaking and thereupon I prest the Interpreter to put the same question to him again but in the fairest manner imaginable which he did in so obliging a fashion that if the Address had been to the Mother her self when she had been newly laid it could not have been taken amiss But the Officer as if he had been inspir'd with some Enthusiasm expressing in his Countenance the horrour and detestation he had for so blasphemous a question What need is there says he of these Enquiries when you have so Authentick a Record for the truth of the matter And we had undoubtedly been turn'd out for Heretiques if we had not sweetn'd the angry Man with a few Pence Me. But how did you behave your selves in the interim Og. Just as if we had been stunded with a Cudgel or struck with Thunder We did most humbly beg his Pardon as in holy matters a man ought to do and so went our way from thence to the little Chappel which is the peculiar Receptacle of the Holy Virgin. In our way thither comes one of the under Officers to us staring us in the face as if he knew us and after him a second and a third all gaping upon us after the same manner Me. Who knows but they might have a mind to draw your Picture Og. But my thoughts lookt quite another way Me. Why what did you imagine then Og. That some body had robbed the Virgins Chappel and that I had been suspected for the Sacrilege and therefore I enter'd the Holy place with this Prayer to the Virgin-Mother in my Mouth OH Thou alone who among Women art a Mother and a Virgin the Happiest of Mothers and the Purest of Virgins We that are impure do now present our selves before thee that art Pure humbly saluting and paying reverence unto thee with our small Offerings such as they are O that thy Son would enable us to imitate thy most holy Life and that we might deserve by the Grace of the Holy Spirit spiritually to conceive the Lord Jesus in our Souls and having once received him never to lose him Amen And so I kist the Altar laid down my Offring and departed Me. What did the Virgin here Did she give you no token that your Prayer was heard Og. It was as I told you but an uncertain Light and she stood in the dark upon the Right hand of the Altar but in fine my courage was so taken down by the Cheque the former
that was White and Shining like Damask and a very pretty Boy behind him with Wings which I took for his good Genius Po. Then he had no evil Genius with him Br. Yes the Franciscan told me he thought he had for there followed him a good way off certain Birds that were Black all over saving that when they spread their Wings they seemed to have a mixture of Feathers that were betwixt White and Carnation By their Colour and Cry one might have taken them for Pyes but that they were sixteen times as big and about the Size of Vultures They had Combs upon their Heads and a kind of Gorbelly'd Kites with Crooked Beaks and Tallons If there had been but three of them I should have taken them for Harpyes Po. And what did these Devils do Br. They kept their distance Chattering and Squalling at the Heroick Reuchlin and would certainly have set upon him if they durst Po. Why what hinder'd ' em Br. Reuchlin's turning upon 'em and making the Sign of the Cross at ' em Be gone says he ye cursed Fiends to a place that 's fitter for you You have work enough to do among Mortals but you have no Commission to meddle with me that am now listed in the Roll of Immortality The words were no sooner out of his Mouth says my Franciscan but these filthy Birds took their Flight and left such a Stink behind them that a Close-stool would have been Orange-flower-water to it and he swore that he would rather go to Hell than even snuff up such a Perfume again Po. A Curse upon these Pests Br. But hear what the Franciscan told me more While I was musing upon this St. Ierome says he was gotten close to the Bridge and saluted Reuchlin in these very Words God save thee my most Holy Companion I am commanded to conduct thee to the blessed Souls above as a Reward from the Divine Bounty of thy most pious Labours With that he took out a Garment and put it upon Reuchlin Tell me then said I in what Habit or Shape St. Ierome appear'd Was he so old as they Paint him Did he wear a Cowl or a Hat and the Dress of a Cardinal Or had he a Lyon for his Companion Nothing of all this said he but his Person was Comely and his Age was only such as carried Dignity with it without the Offence of any sort of Sluttery But what need had he there of a Lyon by his side as he is commonly Painted His Gown came down to his Heels as Transparent as Christal and of the same Fashion with that he gave to Reuchlin It was painted over with Tongues of three several Colours in imitation of the Ruby the Emerald and the Saphyre And beside the clearness of it the Order made it exceeding graceful Po. An intimation I suppose of the three Tongues that they profess'd Br. No doubt on 't for upon the very Borders of his Garments were the Characters of these three Languages in many Colours Po. Had Ierome no Company with him Br. No Company do ye say The whole Field swarm'd with Myriads of Angels that flew in the Air as thick as Atomes Pardon the meanness of the Comparison If they had not been as clear as the Glass there would have been no Heaven nor Earth to be seen Po. How glad am I now for poor Reuchlin But what followed Br. Ierome says he for Respects sake giving Reuchlin the Right hand and embracing him carry'd him into the Meadow and so up to the top of a Hill that was in the middle of it where they kiss'd and hugg'd one another again And now the Heavens open'd to a prodigious wideness and there appear'd a Glory so unutterable as made every thing else that pass'd for wonderful before to look Mean and Sordid Po. Cannot you give us some Representation of it Br. No How should I without seeing it But he that did see it assures me that the Tongue of Man is not able to express the very Dream of it And further that he would dye a thousand Deaths to see it over again tho it were but for one moment Po. Very good And how then Br. Out of this Overture there was let down a great Pillar of Fire which was both Transparent and very agreeable By the means of this Pillar Two Holy Souls embraced one another ascended to Heaven a Quire of Angels all the while accompanying them with so charming a Melody that the Franciscan says he is not able to think of the Delight of it without weeping And after this there followed an incomparable Perfume His Sleep or rather the Vision was no sooner over but he started up like a Mad-man and call'd for his Bridge and his Meadow without either speaking or thinking of any thing else and there was no perswading of him to believe that he was any longer in his Cell The Seniors of the Convent when they found the Story to be no Fable for 't is clear that Reuchlin dy'd at the very instant of this appearance to the Holy Man they unanimously gave Thanks to God that abundantly rewards good Men for their good Deeds Po. What have we more to do then but to enter this Holy Man's Name in the Kalender of our Saints Br. I should have taken care for that tho the Franciscan had seen nothing of all this And in Golden Letters too I 'll assure ye next to St. Ierome himself Po. And let me dye if I don't put him in my Book so too Br. And then I 'll set him in Gold in my little Chappel among the choicest of my Saints Po. If I had a Fortune to my Mind I 'd have him in Diamonds Br. He shall ●stand in my Library the very next to St. Ierome Po. And I 'll have him so in mine too Br. We live in an ungrateful World or else all People would do the same thing too that love Learning and Languages especially the Holy Tongues Po. Truly it is no more than he deserves But does it not a little stick in your Stomach that he 's not yet Canoniz'd by the Authority of the Bishop of Rome Br. I pray'e who Canoniz'd for that 's the word who Canoniz'd St. Ierome Paul the Virgin Mother Tell me whose Memory is more Sacred among all good Men those that by their eminent Piety and the Monuments of their Learning and good Life have entituled themselves to the Veneration of Posterity or Catherina Senensis for the purpose that was Sainted by Pius 2. in favour of the Order and City Po. You say true That 's the right Worship that 's paid voluntarily to the Merits of the Dead whose benefits will never be forgotten Br. And can you then deplore the Death of this Man If long Life be a Blessing he enjoy'd it he left immortal Monuments of his Virtue and by his good Works consecrated himself to Eternity He 's now in Heaven above the reach of misfortune and conversing with St. Ierome Po. But he