Persecutors much more for mercy and favor unto their friends and brethren for they are more inflam'd with charity then with an eager thirst after revenge Theoph. I perceive most of the Arguments are probable diductions from Analogie and proportion but we expect divine Autority to establish such a principle part of Worship which you make the Invocation of Saints Phil. We are not yet arriv'd at that point but preparing the way unto it shewing the Saints in Heaven do understand our affairs and pray for us and with your patience I will give other Texts to prove it Theoph. More pertinent I beseech you Phil. That passage of S t Peter is full to the point 2 d of Pet. 1. 15. I will endeavor after my decease that ye may be able to have these things alwaies in remembrance Where the Apostle shews that after his departure he will endeavor for them Theoph. This feat Argument is Bellarmines and not S t Peters he hath chang'd the order of the words and so by consequence their meaning The Original Text manifests how the words should be read not as you transport them I will endeavor after my decease that you may be able to keep in remembrance c. But Thus a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. I will endeavor that every one of you may be able after my decease to have those things alwaies in remembrance And this endeavor he did use in the daies of his flesh in preaching the Gospel until his death and leaving these Epistles as remembrancers Bellarmine indeed hath the confidence to add to the Text his Paraphrase that it might serve his turn b Dabo operam habere vos commendatos sive in Animo post obitum I will endeavor to have you recommended or in mind after my death And yet it is observeable how he concludes this Text after all his patching c Quam vis non sit evidens est tamen probabile argumentum to be no evident but a probable Argument Whereas as he hath shapt it it is cleer and demonstrative to his purpose but his conscience checkt him for his additions and transmutations and so he would not lay any great stress upon it Phil. You will never leave your sinister Construction of his fair dealing but I hope his next Argument has evidence enough That if Dives in Hell was solicitous for his Brethren upon earth and pray'd Abraham to send Lazarus to warn them least they should come into the same place of Condemnation much more are the Saints in Heaven sollicitous for their Brethren the Church Militant and pray for their protection and assistance Theoph. Your Arguments a majori will not hold without some Autority to support them This of the rich glutton is but a feeble Crutch d Justin Eucherius Cyril Chrysost many Intepreters take the whole passage to be a parable not an History and e 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. Theophylact upon the place reckons the other that it is an History a foolish conceit Now you know the maxim f Parabolae non sunt argumentativae parables are no Argumentative Topick neither are they Narratives of things done but similitudinary representations to fix some Doctrines more sensibly and effectually in mens minds Again if it were an Historical relation of matter of fact it would not prove the point That Dives beindead and in Torment knew the affairs of this world Only he was sensible that he had given an example of voluptuousness and uncharitableness unto his brethren and that their sins would contribute unto his Torment and therefore he was solicitous to have them reclaim'd When he shall urge his example for the Invocation of Saints I will answer That you bring an ill president to confirm a Doctrine of the Church and withal when Abraham or any of the Saints in Heaven shall undoubtedly appear and commune with you you may desire their assistance Phil. Bellarmine hath one material proof that the Saints in Heaven do pray for the faithful upon earth because the Church militant and triumphant do make one mystical body whereof Christ is the head And so there g Ibid. Communio illa exigit necessario ut membra pro invicem sint sollicita mutuo se juvent must be a Communion between the members making them solicitous mutually to help one another Theoph. He might have spar'd to urge the necessary mutual assistance for we do not pray for the Saints in Heaven neither are we solicitous for them who are immutably blessed and of their affection towards us their fellow members militant upon earth we do not doubt neither of their praiers for the Church in general That she may be victorious over all her Enemies as also for the filling up the number of the Elect and their Consummation in bliss but this will not infer their distinct knowledg of things here below or make for your Doctrine of Invocation For you know the Saints militant over all the world are fellow members and mutually solicitous for one another and yet one National Church doth not invocate another in her public offices Phil. I pray give me leave to make the Inference when I have sufficiently fortified the premises you run away with the argument before it is perfect and so conclude it is invalid For you shall find that our Doctors do not only prove how the Saints in Heaven pray in general for the Church militant and for the Saints on earth but that they pray particularly for them for that is Betlarmines next position a Ibid. Sancti qui regnant in coele crant pro nobis etiam in particulari The Saints in Heaven pray for us in particular Theoph. Be pleas'd to let us here his Arguments Phil. He proves the Angels have a special charge over us in particular and pray for us and therefore much more the Saints in Heaven do so Theoph. How doth he prove his much more I doubt it will prove at length much less and the whole Argument a non sequitur Phil. His reasons seem demonstrative our Saviour saith the Saints in Heavin are as the Angels Luk. 20. vers 36. They alwaies stand in the presence of God and most affectionately love us and therefore want neither understanding or will to be assistant unto their brethren upon earth And in one regard they may surpass the Angels in a promtitude to succor us in that they have a nearer relation to us as their flesh and blood and have had experience of our dangers and sorrows and so are the rather qualified to compassionate our infirmities Theoph. Our blessed Savior shews how the Saints in Glory are like unto the Angels and equal to them in respect of their Immortality for they can dy no more and in that they neither marry nor are given in Marriage as you may observe the place but there is no demonstration the comparison should hold in all things and doubtless before the Resurrection
and the joyful union between the Spirits of just Men and their glorified bodies they are in some state of imperfection their appetite of Union being not fulfill'd and therefore you may observe our Savior spake of the Saints in the Resurrection expressly as to their likeness and Equality with the Angels and concludes not any thing before They which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world and the Resurrection from the Dead neither Marry nor are given in Marriage Neitheir can they dy any more for they are equall unto the Angels Luk. 20. vers 35. 36. That they want neither knowledg nor affection to assist us and take a charge of us altho we should grant to avoid disputes yet we do not read they have such a Commission from God to attend us as have the Angels It is written Ps 34. 7. The Angel of the Lord tarries round about them that fear him and delivereth them Again Ps 39. 11 He has given his Angels charge over thee It is written Matt. 18. 10. In Heaven their Angels do alwaies behold the face of my Father which is in Heaven Again Heb. 1. 14. Are they not all Ministring Spirits sent forth to Minister for them who shall be heirs of Salvation Produce such Autorities for the glorious Saints ministery and assistance and we will yield your consequence that because the Angels of Heaven have charge over the people of God upon earth the Saints have likewise It is written 1 Thes 4. 16. That at the voice of the Archangel and the sound of the trump the dead shall rise That the Son of Man shall send his Angels at the last day to gather the elect and sever the wicked from the just the chaff from the corne Matt. 13. Dare you ascribe this office likewise unto the Saints in glory And therefore your Argument from the Angels to the Saints is groundless a meer invention of man without any warrant from Gods word Wherein it appears that the Angels are Gods messengers and Ministers between Heaven and earth but not so the Saints departed Now as God Almighty imploies the Angels so he imparts unto them the knowledg and understanding of affaires below so far as concerns their business and as they attend the Saints upon earth so they know much of their condition And so they rejoice at the conversion of a sinner But we read not a syllable of the Saints in Heaven of their knowledg or their Joy and therefore you can draw no good consequence from one to the other Phil. You conclude well upon your own suppositions but take our Doctors along with you and you will find That God hath committed the charge of the Church militant and the Saints upon earth as well to the Saints as to the Angels of Heaven c Bell. Ibid. A spiritibus beatorum regi gubernard fideles c. and that the faithful are govern'd and conducted by the Spirits of the Blessed Theoph. Shew their substantial proofs and not their confident assertions Phil. You read how the Son of God makes a faithful promise Revel 2. vers 26. 27. He that overcometh and keepeth my words unto the end to him will I give power over the Nations and he shall rule them with a rod of Iron as the vessel of a potter shall they be broken in peices Again Rev. 3. 12. Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the Temple of God to uphold his Church and I will grant to him to sit with me on my throne to rule and govern with Christ his Church and to preside over the world now Bellarmine proceeds to shew how these promises are made to the Saints after this life because they are made to him that overcometh all the Temptations of life and keepeth Christs word until death And that this government belongs to them before the general Resurrection appears from that expression He shall cule them with a rod of Iron and shall brake them as a potters vessel These words imply a pastoral regiment the original is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 he shall feed them as a Shepherd his sheep and it is call'd an Iron rod because inflexible from the rule of justice and therewith the refractory shall be broken in pieces the same expressions are given of Christ Rev. 12. 5. She brought forth a man child who was to rule all nations with a rod of Iron Theoph. Methinks your Doctors in there deep Theologie fetch their proofs most from the Revelations of S t John Your Doctrine of the Saints in Heaven governing the World and the faithful upon earth knowing our state and hearing our praiers is a great mysterie I had almost said of Iniquity and you cheifly confirm it from some mysterious passages in the Revelation an Argument you want plain and positive proofs and therefore fly unto obscure and figurative and mystical expressions All these promises you have mention'd made to the Saints persevering unto the end serve to shew their state of transcendent blessedness and glory above their fellows who in this life were inferior to them in their sufferings and in their graces Like those in the parable who according to the improvement of their Talents had autority given them over many Cities Luk. 19. Or like the blessed servant whom the Lord at his coming shall find so doing Verily I say unto you That he shall make him ruler over all his goods Mat. 24. 47. He shall place him in great honor saith Euthimius upon the place and he gives a caution that we should not enquire too far and with too much curiosity into these things nor collect any thing from such parabolical expressions but what they necessarily imply After the like manner Theophylact upon the place He a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. shall share in the more Honourable recompences to wit in the Kingdom of Heaven for the Saints are Heirs of all that appertain to God And so run the general Interpretations upon the ten Cities c. Among the Ancients we find no mention of this conceit That Christ communicates the charge of his Church and people and the government of the world before the day of judgment unto the Saints in glory Phil. However his proofs out of scripture may sail him Bellarmine abundantly shews from the Testimony of the Fathers that the Saints in Heaven do govern and take charge of the Saints on earth and are therefore in this regard likewise equal with the Angels Theoph. I will take the Testimony of the Antient in due season but I first desire to hear all the Arguments together out of the Holy Scripture proving That the Saints do particularly pray for us and that we must pray to Them for I suppose the foundation of this Doctrine must be sure laid in the word of God or else all will fall to the ground Phil. The Doctrines of our Church are very consonant unto the Scripture and out of them you will find sufficient proof of our duty to call
That the Saints departed have as much charity to pray for us and that their Praiers are as prevalent with God But alas Death hath intercepted former commerce And his third Particular must be well prov'd or all will fall to the ground namely That the Saints in Heaven do hear our Praiers and know our particular needs otherwise it will be in vain to call for their assistance And this main Point your Cardinal doth but slightly touch and gives a short and fallible proof of it That because the Angels know the conversion of a sinner and rejoice thereat according to the saying of our Blessed Savior therefore likewise the blessed Saints do know our state and all our concerns Now we have already shew'd how the Consequence is weakly drawn from the knowledg of the Angels to the knowledg of the Saints in Heaven because the Angels are Gods Messengers ministring unto the heirs of Salvation they are imploi'd about us and know much of our concerns but of the Saints departed no such things are recorded And moreover doubtless the Angels themselves know not all the affairs of particular persons only of those about whom they are emploied and so far as God shall impart to them in their Embassage and Emploiments Phil. As they know the Conversion of every Sinner that repenteth and rejoice so do they know and hear the Praiers of all the Faithful especially such as do concern them and are particularly directed to them Theoph. We are much in the dark as to the measure and extent of their knowledg and must not in these things so much above us set one foot forward without the light and conduct and revelation of Gods Word Now we read in Holy Writ That the Angels have charge over us according as God has committed us unto them but how far and in what particulars is not revel'd We read They rejoice at the Conversion of a Sinner which way soever or whensoever for the improvement of their joy God is pleased to manifest it unto them perhaps by the relation of those Angels who were instrumental in the Conversion But from those Promises we cannot infer their universal Knowledg of Affairs here below and much less the universal Knowledg of the Saints in Heaven Methinks the Learned Cardinal should not so peremtorily have handled this grand Point upon which depends the Invocation of Saints for if they hear us not in vain certainly do we make our Praiers to them If they understand not our condition they cannot recommend it unto God If S t Peter knows not of any such Person as Philodoxus in being to no effect shall we beg his assistance Phil. Not so neither d Ibid. c. 20. Non frustra Sanctos à nobis Invocari etiamsi nec audiant nec agnosâ—ant preces nostras aliquis alius eorum vice fungitur Bellarmin expresly affirms That we do not pray for them in vain altho we shall grant they know not neither hear our Praiers for saith he some other may perform their office and we obtain the favor For many miraculous Instances are given in Church Records of many that have obtained their Requests whil'st they have applied themselves unto the Intercession of some Saint and therefore so we obtain our desires whil'st we pray unto them it is not material whether they hear or not it will concern us to call upon them Theoph. He had done well to point out this Aliquis alius Who is this Delegate of the Saints in Heaven to do their work whil'st themselves hear not our Prayers Whil'st we Invocate the Saints do the Angels help us The surest way then would be to apply our selves to them Doth God help us when we pray to the Saints altho it is high presumtion to make God the Saints Delegate qui eorum vice fungitur however if God helps such as pray to the Saints the most compendious course would be to call directly upon him and so did Christians in the Primitive and purest Times Ad memorias Martyrum at the Shrines and Monuments of Martyrs they did pray to God who was pleas'd to work many miraculous Cures at their Tombs in Testimony of the Faith which those Martyrs sealed with their Blood And this is the just account of the Miracles wrought by the Saints and Martyrs in Heaven at their Shrines here on Earth The Miracles were wrought by Almighty God before the Monuments of the Saints themselves not knowing of it as we shall shew hereafter out of S t Augustine his Book De cura pro Mortuis And yet from this Assertion of Bellarmin wherein I suppose he stands single That we pray not to the Saints in vain altho they do not hear us From this Assertion we must conclude him very inconsiderable and forgetful when immediatly after he approves this Consequence e Sancti recte in vocantur ergo sciunt quod petimus The Saints are immediatly call'd upon therefore they know what we ask One Supposition destroies the other If we may prudently and successfully pray to them altho they hear us not it cannot follow That if we rightly call upon them they do hear us Phil. The first Assertion of Bellarmin was by way of supposition not granted altho they hear us not yet we may profitably pray to them but he positively maintains That the Saints know humane affairs and do hear our Praiers f Quae solo cordis assectu proferuntur even such as are made only in the Heart altho there may be some dispute how they know and hear c. and he gives you the several Opinions of the Doctors Theoph. His former Supposition as we call it was ill put because it directly overthrows the Consequence which he immediatly after approves That because the Saints in Heaven are rightly Invocated therefore they do hear us But I pray proceed to shew how the Saints attain unto the knowledg of things beneath and even of our mental Praiers Phil. g Ibid. c. 20. Bellarmin proposeth four Opinions of the Doctors about the manner how the Saints in Heaven know Affairs beneath and hear the Praiers that are made unto them The first That they know them by the relation of Angels who are Messengers between Heaven and Earth The second That both Angels and Saints are in a sort every where present by the celerity and agility of their natures and so they understand the Affairs of the world and hear our Prayers And he cites S t Augustin for the first Opinion and Jerome for the second Theoph. He cites them very faintly Innuit Augustinus saith he S t Augustin intimates so much in his Book De cura pro Mortuis and there indeed the Father tells us The dead may hear of Affairs on Earth by the relation of Angels but he affirms not they do so and then they may hear some things related h Non quidem omnia sed quae sinuntur indicare but not all things And afterwards he declares Fatendum
unto the Image it self putting us in mind of our Savior you have high reason to yield all civil honor and obeisance to your Prinoe but will you bow the Knee or put of your Hat unto his Image in your Coin or to his Picture in your Closet Phil. Let me ask you also one Question If any should stab the Image of the King or of your Ancestors and shew great indignation against them would you not be higtly offended Theoph. If the Circumstances declare that he did it out of despight and malice to the person represented by the Picture there is reason to take it as an high affront Phil. By insensible degrees I shall bring you to acknowledge as much as we desire If you should see any Man give honor and respect unto the Princes Picture for his sake would you not approve it Theoph. Yes giving such regard as a pious Prince expects from us not to put a studied affront upon it not to set it up in a contemtible place we likewise shew a dutiful affection in highly valuing the Picture that resembles the King Phil. Why should you except against honor and respect given to an Image of your Savior or of his blessed Mother and the Saints Theoph. We do not set aside the Religious Worship of an Image which may lawfully be made and we will not except against any respect you will give to it for his sake whom it represents you must prove it lawful to worship Images Phil. To a Prince civil Worship and Honor is due and so much you give likewise to his Picture by the same rule seeing unto Christ as Man in union with the Divine Nature is due Religious Worship and Adoration you must give Religious Worship to his Image Theoph. We never said the same honor is due to the Picture of a Prince as to his Person Do you all stand bare in the Parlor because your Princes Picture hangs there or the Pictures of any of his Predecessors And secondly from a civil Worship given unto a Creature to a Religious Worship given unto a Creature there is no consequence to be drawn and the reason is this God hath forbid one and not the other Now the Pictures of Christ and of his Cross and of the Saints are Creatures even the work of Mens hands and therefore to them no Religious Worship to be given Phil. There is a receiv'd Maxim in the Church first taken from Basil the Great a Vid. Damascen Orthod Fid. lib. 4. c. 17. 11 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. The honor done to the Image passeth unto him whom it represents and therefore honoring their Images you honor Christ and his Saints Theoph. 'T is truth what respect is given to a Picture is only with regard unto the thing or person represented by it and therefore it is call'd relative Honor We prize the Picture of a Friend and much more of our Blessed Savior and his Saints if they be drawn to the Life but however to the Picture itself no adoration can in reason be given and honor because it is far inferior to the meanest Man who is the living Image of God and a Picture suppose of Christ but an inanimate Image b Honor est agnitio praecellâ—ntis Now Honor is given to things more excellent Will you say the Picture of a King excels in dignity the person of a Subject or that a liveless Picture of our Blessed Savior is more honorable then a living Disciple of our Blessed Savior Phil. Not in itself but as it is the Image of Christ Theoph. I speak of it as his Image and yet I do suppose you dare not maintain That the Picture of Christ in the consideration as his Picture is more to be esteemed then a Disciple of Christ for suppose one of them were to be destroi'd Would you save the Picture and leave the Man to perish Again for worshipping the Images of Saints it may be of S t Peter Is more honor to be given to his Image now then was to his person in the days of his Flesh When Cornelius fell at his Feet and worship'd him he receiv'd it not but said Stand up I my self also am a Man Acts 10 26 instructing him that no such worship was due to a Man Phil. He would not receive such adoration as was due to God Theoph. Who told you good Cornelius a devout Man intended such worship as was due to God Dare you say Cornelius in that act committed I dolatry giving the worship due only to God unto his Servant Peter he only design'd to give to him such high expressions of Honor and Worship as to a Saint and Servant of God upon Earth and yet Peter would not accept of it and intimates because he was a Man he ought not So we read S t John fell down to Worship before the Feet of the Angel and the Angel said See thou do it not for I am thy fellow-servant and of thy Brethren the Prophets and of them which keep the sayings of this Book worship God Now it is to be conceiv'd John design'd not to commit Idolarry and give Divine Worship to the Angel but only some inferior Religious Worship as your Doctors use to speak and yet the Angel would not receive it being jealous of his Creators Honor and directs the Apostle to worship God Now if we must not worship Saints in their own Persons much less in their Images If Angels will not accept worship from us neither will the Saints Triumphant both instruct us to worship God and not them altho we should intend to give them only inferior worship Phil. The second Council of Nice being the seventh Oecumenical Council hath well stated this Point and establish'd the Worship proper to God call'd Latria to be incommunicable to a Creature But a second sort of inferior Worship and Adoration they determin must be given to the Images of Christ and the Saints Theoph. I wish they had first satisfied you or me why they should determine inferior Worship and Adoration to be given to the Saints in Heaven and to their Images on Earth seeing the Angel expresly forbids it and directs us only to worship God But seeing you have appeal'd to that Council of Nice thither we will go as being indeed the first Foundation of Image worship and if you please I will give you a preliminary account and history of that Council Phil. I pray do so for it will suit with our present Discourse and shew the rashness of those Enemies of Christ and his Saints who brake down their Images and cast them out of Churches as Heathen Idols unto the Dung-hill whil'st the holy Popes of Rome successively wrote Epistles and sent Legats and gave warning to the Emperors whose Zeal without knowledge gave countenance and autority to such Sacrilegious Outrages Theoph. About the year of Christ 720. Leo Isaurus the 69 th Emperor of Rome from Augustus observing the growth of Superstition and Idolatry
Images And I do not find in the second Council of Nice the term of Dulia opposite to Latria but Salutation and Adoration 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 However at present we dispute not the terms but desire to know the importance of the known distinction That God only is worship'd with the worship call'd Latria and the Saints with the worship call'd Dulia In the first place therefore What is Latria a Lib. 9. Instit Moralium c. 5. Cultus soli Deo c. Azorius a Jesuit and Casuist tells us It is Service or Worship due to God alone whereby we subject our selves to him as to the supreme Lord putting our trust and confidence in him In the second place What is Dulia b Veneratio quae civibus Coeli tribuitur That Veneration saith he which is given unto the Citizens of Heaven This sheweth to whom it is given but why doth he not tell us what that Worship is and wherein it differeth from Latria And withal seeing Dulia signifieth servitude in the judgment of c Tom. 1. l. de vera Relig. c. 55. Honoramus eos charitate non servitate Augustin we ought not to give it to the Saints in Heaven We honor them saith he with love and not with servitude No distinct peculiar Service or Worship is due to the Saints in Glory for herein lies the difference between the Fathers and the School-men These appropriate a Service and Worship to the Saints in Heaven and call it Dulia to the Blessed Virgin and call it Hyperdulia But Augustin makes no difference between the Service and Worship due to the Saints in Heaven and the Saints on Earth d Lib. 20. Contra Faust. Manich. c. 21. Colimus Martyres eo cultu delect c. We honor Martyrs with that worship of love and friendship wherewith we honor holy Men of God in this life and we worship God alone with Latria When the Manichees objected That Christians made Idols of their Martyrs honoring their Tombs and erecting Altars before them e Quos etiam votis similibus colitis and making Vows unto them f Altaria erigimus Deo Martyrum quod offertur Deo offertur c. Augustin answers We erect the Altars to the God of those Martyrs and the Oblations are given to God who crowned the Martyrs A Christian with Religious Solemnity celebrates the memories of Martyrs to excite Imitation and that he may share in their merits and be assisted by their Praiers Phil. This passage of S t Augustin shews a Religious Solemnity to be kept in honor of the Saints departed and that the living may share in their Merits and be assisted by their Praiers these are Truths which you will not freely acknowledg Theoph. We do acknowledg them for by a Religious Solemnity we understand the Festivals which the Holy Church observes in commemoration of the Saints and Martyrs By the society of their Merits we understand that by imitation of the Saints we have a Fellowship in their Labors and in their Crowns And for the last Clause the assistance of their Prayers we doubt not but that the Saints in Heaven do pray for the Church of God and his Servants here on Earth but as for any knowledge of particulars when we come to that Point I can shew how S t Augustin doubts a Lib. de cura pro Mort. c. 15. Fatendum nescire quidem mortuos quid hic agatur Whether the Blessed Saints and Martyrs do hear the Prayers which are offered up at their Shrines nay he confesseth that they do not know what is done here below and that when by the power of God and Ministry of Angels Miracles were done at their Shrines themselves might not know it no not when they did appear to some upon Earth as Saul saw in a Vision one Ananias coming to him and putting his hands upon him that he might receive his sight but Ananias himself knew nothing of that appearance to Saul until the Lord declared it to him Acts 9 12 God might please to act great things at the Monuments of Martyrs b Cap. 17. Illis in summa quiete positis whil'st themselves were in perfect rest as he speaks But this by the way it belongs to another Controversie in due time to be assum'd However you have heard Augustin after all that he had said concluding We honor Martyrs with that worship of Love and Friendship wherewith we honor Holy Men of God in this Life and if you will require no more Veneration to be given to them we will grant it But then you must remember That Paul when living did forbid Cornelius to worship him and so did the Angel prohibit the Apostle John and so would all the glorious Saints in Heaven prohibit your Adoration before their Images if they could communicate in speech or any other way with you Religious Worship we deny to the Saints and their Images civil honor and respect we give Phil. Because the Saints and Angels of God are like him in their natural Powers and Qualities moral and civil honor is due to them for honor is the acknowledgment of some Excellency But then in regard unto their supernatural Gifts and Spiritual and Religious Qualities we must allow them Religious and Spiritual Honor and Veneration Theoph. c De vera Relig. c. 55. Vni Deo religamus animas nostras unde Religio dicta creditur S t Augustin observes how the very name of Religion strictly binds us to God and therefore all Religious Acts and Services are due only to him Had not Peter and Paul and the other Saints in bliss while they were living in the Flesh supernatural Gifts and Excellencies and would you have worship'd them with Religious Worship Cornelius attemted it and was forbidden Phil. There is a great disproportion between the Saints in Glory and the Saints militant here on Earth Theoph. In regard of their Happiness and Fruition they are excellent beyond compare but this is their reward the Honor we give them is in commemoration of their Works and Excellencies in this Life for our example and imitation And withal Cornelius worshipping Peter in the Flesh was sure Peter was sensible of that Honor then given and you know the Apostle refus'd it but if you worship him now being in Heaven you may rationally doubt as S t Augustin did of the Saints in geneneral whether he is sensible of that Honor more then his Image before which you fall down and worship Phil. However God accepts the Honor done to his Saints as to himself Theoph. Yes when done according to his rule But where hath God given any command or direction to worship them you bring no proofs of your Practice out of Holy Scripture we urge many Texts against it Your Arguments run altogether upon Analogy and Proportion that much more honor is due to the Saints now in Heaven then when they liv'd in the Flesh because they are much more excellent
hold That the Souls of the Faithful departed before Christs Resurrection did not enter into Heaven neither see the Face of God nor know the State of things here above them and therefore it was not usual in the Church to call upon them and say Holy Abraham pray for us Your Doctors hold a Bell. ib. c. 19. Notandum ante adventum Christi qui moriebantur non intrabant in Coelum non Deum videbant nec ordinarie poterant cognese preces sapplicantium That the Spirits of the Patriarchs and Prophets and People of God were shut up in Limbo Patrum as they call it in a subterraneous place the uppermost verge of Hell beneath us without pain and without joy in the Vision of God waiting for their redemtion out of that Prison by the coming of Christ who descended into Hell to set them at liberty and to conduct them triumphantly into Heaven When we urge that Text Isa 63. ver 16. Doubtless thou art our Father tho Abraham be ignorant of us and Israel acknowledgeth us not to shew how the Saints departed know not the Affairs and Transactions here below You answer So it was before Christs Ascension the Saints departed were not in Heaven until Christ opened the Kingdom to them but they were shut up from the Vision of God and from all knowledge of the concerns of this World and yet contrary to this their own Hypothesis you see how they give Instances of Moses and Samuel and Onias and Jeremiah praying for their People the Jews and sollicitous for them in their distress Phil. You may therefore observe the limitation of Bellarmine Non poterant ordinarie preces cognoscere c. In that state they understood not ordinarily the Affairs upon Earth nor heard the Prayers of the People but God might reveal them and so excite them to pray for the People upon which account some of our Doctors hold a Azorius Instit. Moral lib. 9. c. 9. Medina de Orat. Quaest 4. That Prayers might be made to the Fathers in Lymbo yea even to the Souls in Purgatory because they are in a state of Grace and Charity and by the gift of God or by the Ministery of Angels they may hear our Praiers Theoph. Upon the same ground we may daily implore the Assistance and Prayers of our Friends that are absent living at a great distance from us for God may reveal our Desires and Petitions to them but alas these are weak props and suppositions to uphold a feeble cause and hitherto your Learned Cardinal hath not bin demonstrative in the point Phil. Before we conclude I do not doubt but you shall change your note In the New Testament we read Rev. 5. 8. How the 24 Elders fall down before the Lamb having golden Viols full of Odors which are the Praiers of the Saints Theoph. What Argument can Bellarmin or you frame out of this Text I understand not his design Phil. Bellarmin shews how Interpreters understand by the Praiers of the Saints Intercessions made by the Saints in Heaven for the confirmation and support of their weak Brethren upon Earth Theoph. It seems then even the Saints in Glory make use of Mediators of the four Beasts and the twenty four Elders to present their Prayers to the Lamb. The more general Interpretation of that place is That these Odors filling the golden Vials are the Praiers of the Faithful upon Earth which are represented in the Psalm To ascend like the Incense Psal 141. ver 2. Phil. This gives as full testimony to our purpose as the other for thereby it appears the Praiers of the Saints on Earth are presented unto God and to the Lamb by the Saints and Angels in Heaven And to this effect we read Rev. 8. ver 3 4. how an Angel came and stood at the Altar having a golden Censer and there was given unto him much Incense that he should offer it with the Praiers of all Saints upon the golden Altar which was before the Throne And the smoke of the Incense which came with the Praiers of the Saints ascended up before God out of the Angels hand Now this Incense offered up with the Praiers of the Saints on Earth we may suppose are the Merits and Intercession of the Saints in Glory Theoph. And we may suppose they are the Merits and Intercession of Christ whom Primasius understands by the Angel in this place we know it is said expresly Heb. 9. 24. That Christ is entred into the Holiest of all into Heaven it self to appear in the presence of God for us and that by him we offer up to God continually our Sacrifices of Praise Heb. 13. 15. and without all peradventure he is most properly said to add Incense and sweet Odours to our Praiers and Praises because for his sake only they are acceptable to the Father However I cannot but observe what a leap your Cardinal hath taken over all the New Testament to produce his first and cheifest Arguments out of the Revelations of S t John for the Saints hearing and presenting our Prayers unto God purposely to involve himself and others in mysteries and visions which can admit no clear Interpretation neither become useful to lay the Foundation of a Doctrine which takes up the greatest part of the peoples devotions in the Church viz. of the Invocation of Saints In a like case S t Augustine cried out to the Donatists a A Ferte aliquid quod non egeat Interpret Bring forth such proofs as want no Interpretation Suppose I should undertake to prove That the Souls of the just departed are not in Heaven neither do enjoy a perfect state in bliss Rev. 6. vers 9. c. because when the fift seal was opened S t John saw under the Altar the Souls of the Martyrs of them that were slain for the word of God and for the Testimony which they held and they cried with a loud voice saying How long O Lord Holy and true dost thou not judg and avenge our blood upon them that dwell on the earth and white robes were given unto every one of them that they should rest yet for a little season until their fellow servants and their Brethren that should be killed as they were should be fulfilled Suppose I should from the same Text urge that the Martyrs do expressly pray for Divine vengeance upon their enemies but no mention is made of any intercession for their Freinds you would not well approve Arguments drawn from such mysterious visions and Revelations and therefore do not your self make use of them b Tom. 30. in Epistolis ad Paulinum ad Marcellam S t Jerom tells us That the book of the Revelations hath as many mysteries as words and that the whole is to be understood in a spiritual sense and not literal Phil. These things were certainly written for our Instruction and Bellarmine very well argues That if the Saints in Heaven and Martyrs do pray for jugdment upon their
upon the Saints in Heaven Theoph. Make that good and I shall undoubtedly become your convert Phil. Remember this when we draw towards a conclusion mean while I will not spare to give the premises and proofs Bellarmine undertakes to prove expressly b Quod Sancti sive Angeli sive homines piè ac utiliter à viventibus invocantur That the Saints in Heaven whether Angels or men are piously and profitably call'd upon by us who are Living Theoph. Can you tell the reason why he puts his proposition in such unusual terms the common distinction is of the Angels and Saints in Heaven but he calls them Angels and men and both by the name of Saints Phil. You cannot deny but that Angels are Holy Persons and by consequence that they are Saints Theoph. It is not material what they are by consequence but you know the Angels are not commonly call'd Saints when you propose to speak of the Saints in Heaven none will understand you of the Angels and then for the other member of the distinction c Sive Angeli sive homines Men the Souls of just Men departed are not men The man is dead his immortal Spirit lives and upon this Account when you call upon Peter and Paul to pray for you alas Peter is dead and Paul is dead their blessed Spirits are with God but not their Persons before the general Resurrection Phil. These are but frivolous exceptions do not betray your fears by diverting me from the Cardinals proofs First he alledgeth that plain Text for the Invocation of Angels Gen. 48. 16. The Angel which redeemed me from all evil bless the Lads You see the Holy Patriarch Jacob invocates the Angels blessing upon Josephs two Sons Ephraim and Manasseh Theoph. It is Jacobs Option not a formal Invocation his desire not his praier we may suppose rather that Jacob sends up his hearts desire to God that the Angel which did alwaies deliver him might be a Guardian to these Lads when Isaac blessing Jacob said Gen. 27. vers 29. Let the people serve Thee and Nations bow down to Thee doth he therefore invocate Nations and People or rather pray to God that he would bring it to pass This answer sufficeth if Jacob by the Angel understood a created Spirit but the context makes it evident That the Angel stands for Christ the second person of the Sacred Trinity because he is join'd in this Benedicton with the God of Abraham God before whom my Fathers Abraham and Isaac did walk the God that fed me all my life long until this day the Angel which redeemed me from all evil bless the Lads Observe I pray what great d Oratione quarta contra Arrianos Athanasius saith to this place having prov'd the unity of the Father and the Son because they are join'd in the same prayer 1 Thess 3. 11. Now God himself and our Father and our Lord Jesus Christ direct our way unto you He proceeds to declare That no man can pray to receive any thing from the Father and from an Angel or any other creature no man will say let God and the Angels give Thee and then directly answers this Benediction of the Patriarch That he did not joine a created Angel with God that made him in the blessing neither forsaking him that nurisht him doth he seek for an Angels blessing upon the children but stiling him the Angel that deliver'd him out of all his troubles he manifests that he did not understand any created spirit but Christ the word whom he joines with God the Father in the blessing knowing that he is called The Angel of his great Councel 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 according to the Septuagint Herunto agrees a Thes l. 30. cap. 10. Cyrill of Alexandria The Patriarch of God means the Father and by the Angel the word of the Father whose name is the Angel of his councel b Hemil. 66. in Gen. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. Chrysostom makes God and the Angel to be the same whose benediction Jacob implores A graceful Soul to God saith He how doth he retain the memory of his favors fixt in his heart He that nurisht me from my youth hitherto he that deliver'd me out of all evil bless these Lads 'T is much the Learned Cardinalshould take no notice of these signal Autorities but bring a Text in two regards impertinent to his purpose as you have heard to prove the Invocation of Angels which would not however infer the Invocation of Saints departed Because Angels are Gods ministring Spirits and more constant in the affaires here below then are the Saints in Heaven of whose Ministerie upon earth we have no account given in the Holy Scripture only that they sing and Bless God and worship him incessantly in Heaven Phil. Give me leave to proceed and shew how our Doctors prove the Invocation of Angels and then I will manifest likewise how it confirms the Invocation of Saints Bellarmine brings three Texts out of the book of Job to shew the early usage of praying to the Angels Job 5. 1. Call now if there be any to answer thee and to which of the Saints wilt thou turn Job 19. 21. Have pity upon me have pity upon me O my freinds for the Hand of the Lord hath touched me Job 33. 23. If there be a Messenger with him an Interpreter one of a thousand to shew unto man his uprightness Then he is gratious unto him and saith Deliver him from going down to the pit for I have found a ransom Theoph. If these be proofs nothing can miss the mark if calling be invocating and Saints be Angels then the first Text may stand the Cardinal in some stead and Eliphaz his Autority must uphold it But the context shews the meaning of the words Eliphaz would have Job enquire and call any one that fears God to witness whether any perished being Innocent Chap. 4. vers 7. or whether a man can be more pure then his Maker Vers 17. Job had complain'd sadly of his affliction and his friends design'd to put him upon the search whether these severe Judgments did not fall upon him for some secret sins The second proof is as wide from the mark as Heaven from the earth his three friends did persecute his Innocency with their grand error and mistake That God never afflicts but for sin and Job intreateth them to spare and pity him For why do ye persecute me as God and are not satisfied with my flesh as it follows in the next vers 22. Phil. Bellarmine shews how S t Augustin in his Commentary upon Job refers both these Texts unto the Angels Theoph. Read S t Augustin in his second book of Retract c. 13. and you will find him doubtful whether he should call it his book Liber cui titulus Annotationes in Job utrum meus habendus est haud facile dixerim Or rather his who collected his imperfect notes he tells us his
own copy was so faulty ut emendare non possim nec editum à me dici vellem And withal he asserts nothing but only saith here Job seems to call upon the Angels or the Saints that they would pray for him being penitent Angelos postulare videtur aut certè Sanctos ut pro paenitente orent Now Bellarmine himself will not grant the Saints deceased in those daies should be invocated besides the literal sense which I have given is cleer and therefore we look not further to the Allusions of Interpretors The third proof is a Text full of obscurity fit for the Cardinall to amuze his reader with out of the Original we read A Messenger or Interpreter one among a thousand who should shew unto Man his Duty and bring him to repentance and pray for him that the Lord may spare him As Isaiah praied for Hezekiah being sick saith Jerom. Gregorie the Great found no advantage or proof out of this Text for the Invocation of Saints or Angels altho he favour'd the opinion but interprets that of Christs Intercession The Septuagint mention a thousand Angels but not to your Cardinalls purpose but against it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. If there were a thousand destroying Angels yet not one of them shall wound him if he seriously purposeth in heart to return unto the Lord. And thus you see what blind arguments your Doctors urge to maintain their delusions if you are not better provided to prove the Invocation of Saints then you have been of Angels I could wish you to study our case and the reputation of your Doctors by conceling them Phil. You are very pleasant but I shall make you change your note you read how Moses did beseech God to spare his people for the sake and merits of their forefathers Remember Abraham and Isaac and Israel thy Servants to whom thou swearest by thine own self and saidst unto them I will multiplie your seed as the Stars of Heaven c. Theoph. In this Text Moses praies to God not to Patriarchs and therefore it doth not confirm your Doctrine of Saints Invocation Phil. It shews that they did allege the merits of the Saints departed as an help and advantage unto their prayers as Theodoret upon the place when Moses thought himself insufficient to appease the wrath of God he takes in the patronage of the Holy Patriarchs Therefore if they had not the benefit of their praiers as not being in the presence of God they did reap the fruits of their merits Theoph. There is a great mistake in this argument Moses doth not urge the merits of their forefathers but the Covenant God was pleas'd to make with them that he would multiply their seed and give them possession of the promised Land Of this promise he puts the Lord in remembrance that he would please to spare his people and perform the promise made to their forefathers So God promiseth unto the righteous that he will bless their seed unto many Generations Exod. 20. 6. Yet their children do not urge their Fathers merits but the gracious covenant of God As for the Testimony of Theodoret Bellarmine hath made it to his purpose by interposing Patrocinium a Faciens Patriarcharum mentionem Patriarcharum the patronage of the Patriachs instead of making mention of the Patriarchs and of the Covenant with them made beseeching God not to break the Covenant for these are Theodorets words Phil. The Cardinal shews this general answer touching Gods Covenant with the Patriarchs to be insufficient b Pactum Dei justitia Sanctorum simul commemorantur because we shall find express mention made of their righteousness together with the Covenant Lord remember David and all his meekness Psal 132. 1. and ver 10. For thy servant Davids sake turn not away the presence of thine Anointed saith Solomon For Davids sake and not only for the Covenant made with David Theoph. Express mention of that Covenant immediatly follows The Lord hath made a faithful oath unto David Of the Fruit of thy Body shall I set upon thy seat As tho he should have said Lord seeing thou were graciously pleased to make a Covenant with my Father David be pleased upon the same Motives to make good that Promise As for the first part Remember David and all his mansuetude and virtue so your vulgar Translation reads it But according to the Original it is thus rendred Remember David and all his troubles And then immediatly follows Davids vow to build an House unto the Lord and Gods Promise That one of his Sons should build him an House in remembrance whereof Solomon puts up his Supplication And after all you may consider how these Texts are impertinently urg'd making nothing for the Invocation of Saints the consideration of their Merits may fall in more seasonably hereafter Phil. c Ib. c. 19. Hoc Argumentum Adversarii nunquam solvere potuerunt Bellarmin hath one Argument more for the Invocation of Saints grounded upon the Word of God which he accounts unanswerable It is this We read the Faithful have requested the Praiers of the Saints living God himself sends Jobs three Friends to him to intercede for them Job 42. St. Paul beseecheth the Saints at Rome to help him with their Praiers Rom. 15. 30. and the like in many of his Epistles Therefore saith the Learned Cardinal it is lawful even now to call upon the same Saints reigning with Christ For if it be not as lawful to call upon them for the assistance of their Praiers now they are with God in Heaven as when they were living upon Earth It is either because First they are not willing or 2 ly are not able to pray for us or that because 3 dly They cannot hear and receive our Praiers or 4 thly Because their Intercession would be injurious to the Intercession of Christ The two first cannot be suppos'd because their Charity in Heaven is intended and enlarged and their Praiers more effectual neither the third Because as the Angels in Heaven know our state and can hear our Praiers so likewise the Blessed Saints nor the fourth Because as the Intercession and Praiers of the living for their Brethren and for all men are not injurious unto Christs Intercession so neither are the Praiers of the Saints departed Theoph. Alas This Achilles will prove a very Dwarf Your Cardinals unanswerable Argument is of no force First To answer it in general we must tell you That we have no warrant in Holy Scripture either of President or Precept to recommend our selves unto the Praiers of the dead as we have of the living and therefore the consequence holds not good from one to the other Bellarmine knew this well and was so wise to take no notice of it yet it is the main hinge whereupon our regular Devotions must turn even the rule of Holy Scripture wherein God hath reveal'd how and to whom we must direct our Praiers His Argument of four
and Practice the Autority of Man and Custom will prove too feeble to support it And where I formerly produc'd the Autority of the Ancients in any Point I first had laid the sure Foundation in the Word of God However it is not my purpose to interrupt your course fortifie your Doctrine as well you can and I will attac it Phil. I believe so you have resolv'd right or worng But I shall startle you and your Reader when you shall find the general Current of Antiquity allowing and practicing the Invocation of Saints and therefore it cannot be a damnable Doctrine Theoph. Hitherto I have not so called it but when I shall descend to a more particular consideration of those horrible Blasphemies we shall discover in the practice of this Doctrine you wall give me leave to say it hath prov'd distructive unto millions of Souls mean while let it pass for a Doctrine full of Superstition and Will-worship Phil. How easily do you make Councils and Fathers criminals who have avowed the Doctrine For Bellarmin first shews how in the fourth General Council that of Calcedon the Holy Fathers unanimously cried out u Flavianus post mortem vivit Martyr pro nobis oret Flavian lives after death I et the blessed Martyr pray for us Theoph. This Council was held above 400 Years after Christ and yet I did not expect to find so early a Testimony of the Bishops in such a General Council for your purpose Give me leave therefore to search the 11 th Session of that Council from whence Bellarmin brings the Testimony In the third Tome of Tinius his Edition we shall find it and now I pray let your own Eyes be Judges In the Original Greek Copy there are no such words only general Acclamations of the Council unto the pious memory of Flavian x 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. Let his memory be eternal the memory of Flavian the Orthodox c. But the words which Bellarmin quotes are by a Parenthesis inserted in the Latin and nothing answers them in the Greek This is a detestable Forgery and I cannot conceive the Learned Cardinal was not aware of it however you see what need there is we should examin your Doctors Quotations and here you find he is extreamly ◠Bin. Tom. 1. Concil Carth. 3. p. 182. deficient Phil. It seems the Latin Translator deceived him and it is strange such a Clause should be put in when there was nothing answerable in the Greek Theoph. Such leger de main is usual with some Zealots of your Church to uphold her Innovations Phil. Upon the least occasion given you are very severe and uncharitable in your Censures But what say you to his next Quotation of the Bishops of Europe to the Emperor Leo We have rank'd most holy Proterius in the Order and Quire of the Holy Martyrs and we desire God by his Intercession to be merciful and propitious unto us a Now you may understand that Proterius was Patriarch of Alexandria and injuriously thrust out by Timotheus and afterwards murthered by his Accomplices whil'st he did himself in the sacred Font of the Temple Complaint was made hereof by the Egyptian Bishops and the Clergy of Alexandria to the Emperor who communicated their Letters to the Bishops thro-out his Empire desiring them to give their Judgment of the Council of Chalcedon against which Timotheus and his Faction had protested and of the matter of Fact concerning Proterius his death and Timotheus his Intrusion into the See of Alexandria and among other things the European Bishops in their Answer to the Emperor give this account of Proterius That his death was Martyrdom and they desired the assistance of his Praiers Theoph. After this ingenious account given your Testimony comes not home to your purpose Observe the words They import no Invocation of the Martyr Proterius but a desire That God would be merciful unto them for his sake and Intercession Phil. They suppos'd therefore That the Saints in Heaven do make Intercession and pray for us Theoph. But why do you hereupon suppose That we must pray to them we deny not That they generally pray for the Saints militant on Earth for their Victory over all their Adversaries Heretics and Infidels and Persecutors and that every true Believer thro the goodness of God may reap the benefit of their Praiers but that we should pray to them when we cannot be assur'd that they hear us and when we have no warrant out of Gods Word to do so we dare not consent And withal in this Quotation I pray observe another Artifice of your Doctor he would have us believe this was an Epistle to the Emperor of all the European Bishops whereas it was only of four Bishops whose Subscription we find in Binius thus John Bishop of Heraclea Theophronius of Aphrodiasis Theotecnus Episcopus Cyclensis and Babulas Bishop of Theodosipolis The other Bishops of Europe give their account to the Emperor in other Epistles and so this Testimony which Bellarmin pretends to be of a Council and entitles it to the European Bishops sinks into a private Testimony of four Bishops of inconsiderable Diocesses joining Bin. Tem. 3. part 3. Concilin Calcedon in one Epistle to the Emperor and comes not up to the Point neither of Saints Invocation as you have heard Phil. You lie at catch for some exception or other But in the next place Bellarmin brings an express Canon of the sixth general Council a Can. 7. Solo Deo Creat adorato c. Requiring us to call upon the Saints that they would vouchsase to intercede for us with the Divine Majesty Theoph. It is evident That the fifth and sixth general Councils made no Canons and the Learned generally acknowledg it and therefore some Years after the sixth general Council at Constantinople was held and concluded under the Emperor Constantine Pogonatus and Pope Agatho against the Heresie of the Monothelites Jusinian the yonger summons a Council in the Registery of his Sacred Palace which because of its famous capacious Arch was called Trullus and the Council Concilium Trullanum the Council of Trullo in the time of Pope Sergius Anno Dom. 692. consisting of four Patriarchs and 215 Bishops wherein were made 104 Canons as a Supplement unto the former Councils which made none and the Council was called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 b Bin. Tom 5. p. 419. In notis ad consilium Ouini-sextum the fifth-sixth Synod because it supplied what was wanting to them both Phil. This was indeed generally receiv'd but some time after there were found nine Canons ascrib'd unto the sixth general Council whereof this which Bellarmin quotes is the seventh Theoph. Yes Surius tells us They were found in an old Manuscript of a Monastery in Gaunt but he also declares That they are falsly ascrib'd to the sixth general Council as Binius shews Tom 5. pag. 360. And here we may justly stand amaz'd to find your Learned Cardinal cite
a Qui proprio sanguine laverunt si qua habuerunt peccata The Martyrs if they had any sins have washt them away with their own Blood The Blessed Apostle tells us 1 Joh. 1. The Blood of Jesus Christ cleanseth from all unrighteousness Immediatly before these words which Bellarmin quotes S. Ambrose hath this passage b Infirma est caro mens aegra ad Medici sedem non potest debile explicare vestigium The flesh is weak the mind sick and feter'd with the chains of sin and so we cannot creep to the Physician but must call upon the Angels and Martyrs c. Where do you read in H. Scripture that the sick to wit the sinner cannot come to Christ the Physitian did he not come to call sinners to invite the weary and heavy laden to come to him and find rest you shall hear other Fathers generally contradicting this Doctrine of Ambrose and the Holy Scripture much more yet this is the usual pretence for Saints Invocation and Intercession That we are unworthy of our selves to draw neer to an Holy God to put up our supplications to him of which more hereafter herein S. Ambrose contradicts what he hath piously commented upon the first chap. of the Epistle to the Rom. in the 4 chap. of his Commentary c Solent miserâ uti excusatione per istos posse ire ad Deum ut per Comites ad Reg. This is the miserable excuse saith he that by Angels and Saints we may have access to God being unworthy of our selves to come unto him as we go to the King by his Courtiers For which he answers d Ideo per Tribunos Comites itur ad Regem quia homo est c. Ad Deum a. promerendum qui omnium novit merita suffragatore opus non est sed mente devotâ Therefore we come to the King by his Tribunes and Officers because the King is a man and must receive information from others but to obtain the favor of God who knoweth all mens deserts we need no suffragants but a devout mind whensoever such a one calls upon Him he will answer him Nothing could be more directly oppos'd to your usuall plea for the Invocation of Saints The same Father in his book de Isaac Anima cap. 5 tells us from the third chap. of Canticles and the third vers e Anima quae Deum quaerit transit custodes enim sunt mysteria quae etiam Ang. concupiscunt videre That a Soul seeking God passeth by the keepers for there are mysteries which the Angels them selves desire to looke into Phil. Do you then follow S. Ambrose's direction in one place and I will take his advise in the other Bellarmin brings the testimony of many other Fathers of the later Ages of the Church and I must confess I am almost tired in following him especially seeing you so dextriously shift him off Gregory Nyssen speaks home to the point in the latter end of his Oration opon Theodorus a Martyr thus We want many benefits doe thou become our Legat with the King of Heaven Thou art not ignorant of humane necessities procure peace for us That we have bin safe and sound hitherto we ascribe it to thee If you want more assistance take in the quire of your Brethren the Martyrs The praiers of many Saints wash away the sins of Nations and People In the like manner he speaks in his Panegyricks of another Martyr Theoph. This is sufficient to your purpose you need look no further But I pray tell me do you take him for an Orator or Divine in these passages Is it possible he should in earnest ascribe the preservation of the Faithfull all along unto this Martyr hope for security from him for the future and never take into consideration the divine protection Is it good Divinity to say That the praiers of the Just wash away the guilt of Nations and People and never mention the Blood of Christ and his effectuall Intercession Phil. That is to be suppos'd as the principall the Blessed Saints may be instrumentall in these Blessings Theoph. What you suppose is one thing and what he expresseth another But it is neither good Philosophie nor Divinity to intitle the effect unto the Instruments and leave out the principall Agent Should I make such an harangue to an Artists Tooles give them all the honor of the excellent work he would reckon me besides my wits and himself put besides his due commendation praise Phil. You ask Questions instead of giving Answers But I have now concluded to favor you and not overlade you with innumerable testimonies The Authority of the later Fathers perhaps you will except against in this point Such as Bede and Anselme Bernard Damascene the Elder I have hitherto produc'd and yet there remaine two of the Greek Church and two of the Latin Church whose Authorities I will urge out of Bellarmin in confirmation of this point then I shall give you respite The Greek Fathers are Chrysostome and Theodoret the Latin Jerom and Augustin Theoph. You have made a noble choise herein you much oblige me whilst your wisdom and your zeal do prompt you to urge the most effectuall testimonies on your side that you determine to let the others passe which cheifly serve to fill up a number Phil. Bellarmin quotes an eminent passage out of a Homil. 66 ad pop Antioch Chrysostom but we easier find it in his 26 Homilie upon the second Epistle to the Corinthians from whence we suppose the Homilie was collected it is in the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of that Homilie The words out of Chrysostom are these He that weareth purple goes and salutes the sacred bodies and laying aside his state b 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. stands praying unto the Saints that they would appear before God in his behalf He that weareth the Diadem beesecheth the Tent-maker and Fisherman being dead to become his Advocates Theoph. This is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a passage whereunto we find not a second like it in all the works of Chrysostom Bellarmine refers to other pâ—â—ces of this Father but according to his accoustum'd manner without truth and reason It is strange therefore if he were of the opinion the practice in his daies was usual to pray to the Saints before their shrines that any where else he should not speak of it and therefore I must tell you that the originall Greek doth not altogether warrant Bellarmin's translation but equally admits another which will fall short of his proof For 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as well signifies standing in need of the Saints Intercession as praying for it and so 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 He wants their protection Now we may stand in need and may reap the benefit of the Saints supplications in Heaven for the people of God here on earth yet have no warrant to call upon
against any desire That the Faithfull living should assist us with their praiers Theoph. You should not join together the Mediation Intercession of Christ and of the Saints whether in Heaven or Earth And you may observe the Father speaks of k 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Intercessors in the plural as of many Implying That one is our Mediator between God and men even the Man Christ Jesus 1 Tim. 2. 5. And withall the Testimony is sufficient against that fond conceit That we are unworthy to draw neer to God in our own persons but by others Intercession Phil. You will draw out your discourse in infinitum by your rejoinders and remarks but I hast to an end The second Greek Father I propos'd was Theodoret a Learned Bishop of Cyprus who in his History of the Lives of Holy Fathers concludes each Life after this manner l Huic narrationi finem imponens rogo ut per horum intercess div cons cuxil I putting a period to this relation and history do pray and beseech that by the Intercession of these Saints I may obtaine Divine assistance Theoph. It is not here exprest that he did pray unto these Saints but we rather suppose to God upon the opinion of their Intercession That he might reap the benefit therof withall he was infected with the hereâ—y of Nestorius and wrote bitterly against Cyrill of Alexanria his twelve Theses and that work of his was condemn'd in the fift general Council and himself thro the violence of oppositions was compell'd against his judgment to pronounce Nestorius accurs'd yet we honor his great Learning and let his memory be precious Phil. I am glad to discover your moderation for there is another most considerable testimony out of him full to the point of Saints Invocation m Libro 8. De curandis Graec affectibus The Temples of the Martyrs are magnificent beautifull in them we often keep festivals such as enjoy health pray to the Martyrs to preserve it such as are sick desire health of them Men and Women who are unfruitfull ask of them Children Such as go a journey desire their conduct and after their safe return they pay their thanks to them owing their security to their favour Now saies he they do not pray to these Martyrs as to God but as unto Holy men whose Intercession they desire and that they often obtain'd their requests the numerous gifts devoted to these Martyrs do testify hanging up in the Martyrs Temples the pictures of theirs eyes and hands and legs in gold which their votaries recover'd by their merits and praiers and Intercession Theoph. These are high things and great assignments unto the Martyrs Methinks there should of right have bin som reflexions upon God in these deliverances and cures sure there was somthing in the wind that Bellarmin only refers to this passage and doth not set it down in full length being so full to his purpose in the 18 th chap. he hath part of this quotations but not the whole Perhaps the Cardinal was not fully satisfied with the person of Theodoret or rather with the book it self which n Niceph. l. 44 c. 54. Nicephorus doth not reckon up among Theodoret's Works when he gives an account of all his books these 8 books De curandis Graecorum affectibus are not mentioned o 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. Those which he wrote are these c. And withall your Learned Cardinal knew well That what Theodoret if this book were his did build with one hand he pull'd down with another as to this point of Invocation of Saints or Angels For in his Commentary upon the 2 d chap. of S t Paul to the Colossians vers 18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of Angels I say Theodoret in his Commentary upon this place cuts off the sinews and foundation of Saints and Angels Invocation He shews how some Jewish Christians in Phrygia and Pisidia being zelous of the Laws did worship Angels by whom the Law was given and build Temples to S t Michael and others and that this course continued long among them p Bin. Concil Lacd Tom. 1. can 35. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. And therfore that in the 4 th Century a Council of Bishops in Laodicea the Metropolis of Phrygia neer neighbor to Colosse did expresly forbid the worship of Angels calling it Idolatrie That Christians ought not to leave the Church of God and depart and call upon the Angels and make assemblies and if any be found to be conversant in this hidden Idolatrie let him be accursed Now this voluntary humility which S t Paul mentions refers to that humble pretence That sinners are not worthy to draw neer to God themselves but by the Intercession of Saints Angels Intruding into those things which he hath not seen vainly puft up in his fleshly mind saith the Apostle That is saith Theodoret a Propriis utens rationibus cogitationibus using his own reason and imaginations c. now saith he the b Synodus volens veteri illi morbo mederi cavit ne precarentur Angelos Synod of Laodicea desiring to cure this old dicease forbids them to pray unto Angels And you will grant if we must not pray to Angels neither to the Saints For you have deriv'd cheifly the Invocation of Saints from that of Angels Phil. c Ibid. cap. 20. Bellarmin hath answer'd this passage of Theodoret and of the Council of Laodicea and the Text of the Apostle together Namely d Apostolum damnare haeresin Simenis Magi qui decuit Angelos quasi minres c. That the Apostle condemns the heresie of Simon Magus who taught like Plato that the Angels should be worships as lesser Deities and that none could please the invisible God but by the Angels And he tells us That the Council e Concilium non damnat quamvis venerationem Ang. sed quae Deo propria did not condemn all worship of Angels but only such veneration as is proper to God Theoph. Observe the incongruity of this Answer as to several particulars He saith the Council condemns not all Veneration of Angels but only such as is proper to God the supreme Deity and yet according to his own relation Simon Magas and the Jewish Christians that worshipt Angels did not worship them as the Supreme Deity but only as subordinate Intercessors And S t Paul and the Councel of Laoduea condemns this That in voluntary humility they should deprive them selves of that priviledg to come to God themselves and so make way unto him by the Intercession of Angels The Apostle therefore and the Council sorbid this inferior worship as Theodoret observes f Ne precarentur Angelos That they should not pray to the Angels to make way for them unto the Great God And in the next chap. of S. Paul to the Colossians vers 17. the Apostle
our Arguments against your Doctrine We have already shew'd that your Doctors can make no proof or give any assurance that the Saints in Heaven do hear our Praiers and therefore that we should call upon them in vain But yet further as to our thoughts and mental Praiers the Saints cannot discerne them and therefore are not meet Objects of our Invocation Phil. Yes in the glass of the Trinity even mens thoughts may be represented to them Theoph. Never tell me what may be but do you believe they do discerne our though's you know in Scripture to search the hearts and know the thoughts of men is made an incommunicable property of the divine Nature Thou even thou only knowest the hearts of men saith Solomon 1 Kings 8. 39. Phil. To this Bellarmin answers that God only naturally and by hiw own vertue know's mens thoughts but the Saints by Revelation and the beatific Vision Theoph. These are meer Dictates without proof Devices to shift of unanswerable Arguments How can your great Doctor prove that God reveles the thoughts of Men and Women and Children and their mental Praiers to the Saints in Heaven or that they behold them in the Beatifical Vision whereas he is foret to acknowledg that other things are conceled from them for instance neither Angels nor Saints know the day of Judgment Phil. This wise discourse signifies but little For if the Saints in glory cannot difcern nor hear mental Praier let us put up vocal Supplications unto them Theoph. If you cry aloud and they cannot hear you what then however there is more in this consideration then so Would you have the blessed Virgin as soon interceed for Hypocrites as for sincere Christians shall Peter admit you all promiscuously into Heaven such Mediators as you make the Saints ought to be qualified for their high office with a discerning faculty of the sincerity of men's hearts who call upon them and withal when men are speechless upon their death-beds and most need the help of their Fraiers by your last supposition they must go without them Phil. Why is this Argument of not discerning the thoughts of mens hearts of force against the Saints Intercession in Heaven more then against the Intercession and praiers of Saints upon Earth for one another Theoph. Your selves make the wide difference between the Intercession of the Saints in heaven and of the faithful here upon Earth And that shall be the ground of our next Argument against your Invocation of Saints and their Intercession because you make their Mediation much to derogate from the Meditation and Intercession of Christ Phil. That indeed is a material Objection but how do ye prove it a Ibid. Cap. 20. Bellarmin saith expresly We do not call upon the Saints to perform the Offioe of Christ but only that they would assist us with their Praiers the more easily for us to obtain our requests from God thro Christ He acknowledges Christ to be the one only Mediator between God and man by way of Redemption and satisfying the debt and by Nature as being God and man and because he only stands in need of no other Mediator whatsoever others obtain of God either for themselves or others they obtain it thro Christ. Now altho the Saints and Angels do not satisfie for our sins and pay the debt yet they may beseech God for Christs fake to forgive them Theop. If this were all we would not much contend with them about the Saints Intercession as prejudiciall to the Mediation and Intercession of Christ But the Doctrine of your Schools goes further That the Saints intercede for us not only by their Praiers but also by their merits b Sent. l. 4. dist 45. ad finem so Peter Lombard the Mr. of the Sentences Interprets the Act of Intercession We pray to the Saints to Intercede for us i. e. That their merits may become our assistance and Immediately before he saith c Intercedunt merito affectu The Saints interceed with God for us by their Merits whilst their Merits plead for us and by their Love desiring to have our requests granted Bonaventure explains him Altho first he the Saints in glory Non sunt in statu merendi are not in a state of Meriting and are sufficiently recompenc'd for their Merits in this life d In 4. Sent. dist 45. yet because they did supererogate much They have obtain'd such honor by there Merits not only to deserve beatitude and glory for themselves but also to prove suffragans for others so that he who was before unworthy by Praying to the Saints thro their Patronage becomes worthy Now we say that thro the Merits of Christ we who are otherwise altogether unworthy have access with boldness unto the Father and therefore we implore his Patronage and Advocation and Intercession and take him as the only Mediator between God and man and for all this we have the full and express Authority of Gods word Thro Him we have access by one Spirit unto the Father In whom we have boldness and access with confidence thro faith in Him Ephe 2. 18. and 3. 12. Again If any Man Sin we have an Advocate with the Father Jesus Christ the righteous e Quia multa supererog suis meritis adepti sunt locum c. and he is the Propitiation for our sins and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world 1 John 1. 2. Again There is one God and one Mediator between God and Man the Man Christ Jesus who gave himselfe a Ransom for us 1 Tim. 2. v. 5. 6. Phil. I have shew'd above how Bellarmin acknowledgeth Christ to be the one only Mediator by way of Redemtion and solution of the debt but the Saints may be Mediators by way of Intercession Theoph. If you meant only the Intercession of Praiers it were tolerable but your Doctors bring in the intercession of their Merits and that implies satisfaction of the debt at least in some part their Superogation supplying our defect Phil. This refers unto another Point to be discust hereafter touching the Saints Merits and Superogation and therefore we will not now determine it Theoph. Mean while upon your own grosse suppositions you make the Saints so to Interpose with God for us as to Intrench upon the Intercession of Christ who is therefore represented to be our Advocate because He is a propitiation for Sin 1 John 2. 1 2. As our Mediator because He gave himself a Ransom for all 1 Tim. 2. 6. Phil. You may take our Blessed Saviour as the principal in Intercession and satisfaction and the Blessed Saints may come in as Inferiour Advocates and Patrons Theoph. This is the Rock against which your Schole-men generally Ship-wrack Concience First They take all things taught or practis'd in the Church of Rome as infallibly true and then when any thing is objected out of Gods word or the Testimony of the Ancients against them they salve themselves by a
Council had determin'd Latriam or that worship due to the Blessed Trinity should be given to Images and they likewise did suppose the Pope had not confirm'd that Council Theoph. Any thing to bear up the reputation and Grandeur of the Pope of Rome But I pray judg how incredible this is that the Council of Francford should mistake the Council of Nice when Adrian had sent a true Copy of that Council by his Legats Theophilus and Stephanus who were present in the Council of Francford and could rectifie any such mistakes c Vid. Bin. Tom. 6. in Notis in Concil Francford pag. 185. And upon these Motives Binius tho unwillingly declares his dissent from Baronius and Bellarmine and professeth himself to be of the Opinion That the Council of Francford never rejected the Council of Nice or declared against Image worship and labor in vain to shift off the numerous Testimonies of Writers of those Times and of that Council And so you may observe how much the Doctors of your Church are put to shifts and fencing about to ward the blow given in the Western Churches unto Image worship by the Councils of Francford and Paris Phil. How do you then believe the Council of Francford could proceed upon a mistake That the Council of Nice had establish'd the same worship to be given to Images as to the Holy Trinity seeing it hath declared so expresly against it Theoph. I have observ'd many passages in the Council which fairly tend to that Doctrine notwithstanding sometime they mince the matter Phil. For the other supposal likewise That the Council of Francford should conceive that Pope Hadvian did not confirm the Nicene Council it is improbable seeing his Legats were present in that Council and could easily have inform'd them better Theoph. I am not concern'd to vindicate and reconcile your Doctors But the Popes Legats perhaps seeing the stream and zeal of the Council of Francford consisting of 300 Bishops against the establishment of Image worship by the Council of Nice prudently conceal'd and were willing to let them believe That the Pope did not confirm that Council least upon that account they should fall fowl upon the Pope as afterwards the Council of Paris under Ludovicus did And so I am willing to conclude this matter and toil no longer in the Labyrinth of these Councils either for Images or against them Phil. I am willing you should take notice of one Consideration more of Bellarmin a Lib. 2. de Imag. c. 12. Argument 9. 10. That the Emperors who were against Images were desperatly wicked and had signal Evidences of Divine Wrath and Vengeance in the times wherein they liv'd The first Founders of the Heresie being Jews and Samaritans and Mahumetans and Necromancers as he proves out of Historians And then he shews how in the Reign of Leo Isaurus the great Image breaker there was a great Pestilence in Constantinople whereof died near three hundred thousand persons Theoph. Leo reigned 24 Years and in those parts great Plagues are frequent and therefore no evident demonstration of Wrath in such a fatal Concurrence Phil. Bellarmin observes how Leo and his Successors upon this occasion lost the Empire of Italy and the West and it was never recovered Theoph. He may thank Pope Gregory the second for it who finding the Emperors Power in Italy inconsiderable applied himself to the Kings of France and made use of their Power both against the Lombards and against the Emperor upon this account he Excommunicated the Emperor and forbad his usual Revenues out of Italy to be paid unto him And this was an Art of high Injustice and Usurpation and Rebellion for the Pope of Rome was the Emperors Subject Phil. Bellarmin proceeds to observe how in the Reign of Constantinus Copronymus there were great Plagues and Earth-quakes and an horrid Frost wherewith Pontus was congel'd 100 Miles and likewise such great Droughts that many Rivers and Fountains and Wells were dried up by which Judgments God did restifie against them for their detestable Sacrilege and in one Prodigy most visibly because the Sign of the Cross upon a time was miraculously imprinted upon Mens garments either in their Houses or walking in the Streets and upon the Vestments of Priests as tho God Almighty would in spight of Image-breakers restore the Cross Theoph. If you rely so much with Bellarmin upon this Argument of Providence I may refer you to the several Apologies made for Christians for an Answer In the Primitive times the Heathen imputed all public Calamities to the growth of Christianity among them that for the sake of Christians the Gods did plague the World As Tertullian shews in his most excellent Apology b If Tiber sxells and flows even to the Walls Cap ' 40. Si Tiberis ascendit in moenia si Nilus non ascendit in arv◠c. of Rome if the River Nile do not over-flow the Fields if the Heavens stand and give no Rain or the Earth move if there be any Famine or any Pestilence they cry out presently Bring forth the Christians to the Lions Methinks Bellarmin should be asham'd to make use of the old Heathen Argument and withal the intelligent Reader will find That Bellarmin fail'd much in his Observation because the Emperors who abolish'd Images and their Worship prosper'd in the World and setled the Empire for some time upon their Posterity whereas before and after them we read of slaughters of Emperors and sudden changes He that had the greatest influence upon the Armies rebelling against his Prince and assuming the Empire But Leo Isaurus having cast Theodosius out of the Empire and caus'd him and his Son to become Priests possest the Empire in great security 24 years died in Peace and left the Government to his Son Constantinus Copronymus who Reigned 34 years in a flourishing State insomuch that Baronius shewing how in the 28 year of his Empire in great Triumph and Solemnity he Crown'd his Wife Eudoxia Empress and his two Sons Christophorus and Nicephorus Caesars breaks out into admiration saying a Quis consid de foel scelestiss principis Anno 768. Who considering the Felicity of this most wicked Prince would not stand amaz'd To Constantine Leo his Son was Successor in the Empire and Reigning five years deceas'd leaving his Son Constantine ten years old who with his Mother Irene ruling the Empire call'd the Council of Nice and restor'd Images You see therefore how long these Image breakers hold the Empire but Constantine the Restorer of Images soon lost it His Mother Irene put out her Sons Eyes and he died and she rul'd alone for a season until she was thrust into a Monastary by Nicephorus who succeeded her in the Empire of Constantinople But Pope Leo the third took from her the Empire of Rome before well rewarding her for her good Service in restoring Images For we read b Abbas Vspergensis Anno 801. Carol◠Augusto à Deo coronato magno
horns hath little strength but could he have added to them this fifth Horn That the Word of God approveth the Invocation of the dead as of the living we must have fled before it But alas all the attemts to confirm this Doctrine of your Church out of Holy Writ have prov'd so unsuccessful that some of your own Doctors have had so much Ingenuity as to acknowledg That it is not expresly delivered in Holy Scripture So a Invocatio Sanctorum non expresse traditur in Script Eccius in his Enchiridion of Catholic Confession and therefore it must pass for an unwritten Tradition whereof Martin Peresius confesseth we have b De Trad. p. 3. consid 7. Ne vestigium ante divum Cyprianum no footsteps before Cyprian Phil. Peresius gives a rational account together with others why the Holy Apostles did not lay the foundation of this Doctrine It was say they c Causa erat humilitas mod Apostolorum nese Deos facerent out of their great humility and modesty least they should appear to establish in the Church their own Apotheosis make themselves as Gods by directing the People of God to put up their Supplications after their decease to them Theoph. Methinks That which prevail'd with the Apostles not to deliver this Doctrine of the Invocation of Saints should likewise have prevail'd with the Church never to have establish'd it and without doubt had it bin according to the will of God and profitable to the Church the Holy Apostles would never have concel'd it out of modesty and humility S t Paul declares expresly to the Church of Ephesus Acts 20. 19 20. That serving God with all humility of mind he had kept back nothing that was profitable unto them And doubtless it was presumtion and pride which introduc'd this Error tho under shew of voluntary humility for if the Apostles were afraid to recommend themselves as Gods unto the People by giving them directions to pray to them after their decease the Pope who undertakes to Canonize Saints and to encourage the People of God to pray to them in spight of the Apostles humility and fear takes the boldness upon him to make them as God Phil. You make so many Excursions that you come not to the Point How do you answer the four Particulars of Bellarmins Argument Theoph. I have already cut off the four Horns with one blow He saith That if we may not pray to the Saints departed as well as desire their Praiers when living it must be for one of those four causes fore-mentioned either they are not willing or are not able to pray for us or they cannot hear our Praiers or their Intercession would be injurious unto Christs Intercession but I say is enumeration is lame and imperfect for I have shew'd a fifth reason why not because the Word of God obligeth not to one as to the other It requires that we should desire the mutual assistance of one anothers Praiers living but not after our decease all civil commerce being intercepted by the will of God between the living and the dead Phil. Do you reckon our Invocation of the Saints departed a part of civil commerce I thought it had bin a Religious act and duty Theoph. I grant Praier to be such and therefore a part of Divine Worship to be given only to God But that Invocation of Holy Men living as you call it or as I term it That pious desire and request which one Christian makes unto another that he may enjoy the benefit of his Praiers from whence you draw an Argument for Invocation after their decease that doubtless is a civil Request wherewith Christians mutually call upon and oblige one another to remember them in their Praiers So likewise the honor which Subjects yield unto their Prince presenting their Petitions with bended knees is civil And so Children begging the Blessing of their Parents these are formally Civil not Religious Acts. A good Christian indeed gives honor to his Prince and to his Parents not only upon a civil account but also Religious it being a duty requir'd in the Word of God yet the honor it self is civil the motive unto us wherefore we give it is Religious the will and command of God Phil. You are willing to involve the Discourse with subtle Notions and nice Distinctions Such honor as you give to Princes and Parents vouchsafe to the Saints in Glory begging the assistance of their Praiers upon your knees and it shall suffice Theoph. Your self caus'd this Digression You suppos'd the Invocation of Saints departed to be a Religious act and so in truth you generally make it a great part of your Religion I have shewed how the desire and request which Christians make to one another whilst they are in the Flesh mutually to be remembred in their Praiers is a civil request and therefore no sufficient ground for your Religious Invocation of the Saints in glory But at length you are content we should make the same civil Requests to the Saints in Heaven for their Praiers as to the Faithful who are living You may observe it generally such as are in the wrong will accept of any composition But we cannot grant it for this reason because Death intercepts all civil Obligations and Commerce between Persons Parents when they are dead cease to be provident for their deer Children and these expect it not from them The rich Man departed cannot relieve the poor nor lend him Money at his need You formerly did urge there was a communion between the Church Militant and Triumphant but that is mystical as Fellow-members of Christs Body But the civil communion between Brethren and Neighbors and the relation of Parents and Children Masters and Servants Princes and Subjects Husband and Wife is interrupted altogether by death and so by consequence all those acts which depend upon or flow from that communion That Children should ask their Fathers Blessing after his decease I never yet did read your Doctors have asserted Phil. I am well confirm'd by these your Digressions That notwithstanding you would appear to slight Bellarmins Argument and pretend to cut off all the four Horns at one blow by giving a general answer yet in truth you do warily decline the force of it and are not willing to come to the four Particulars whereupon he hath insisted That seeing the Saints departed are as willing and as able to help us now with their Praiers as when they were living amongst us and seeing they know our state and can hear and receive our Addresses to them and seeing their Intercession now for us is not injurious to the Intercession of Christ therefore we have as much and more reason to Invocate them now in Heaven then when they were conversant with us upon Earth Theoph. Not excluding the confutation already given I will now take these four Particulars into consideration The two first may easily be granted if there could be mutual communion between them and us
est c. We must acknowledg that the dead do not know the things that are don upon Earth I shall give you a full account of this Book hereafter Next for S t Jerome Bellarmin saith he seems to say as much in his Book against Vigilantius where in truth the Father doth assert of the evil Angels That they wander far and wide thro-out the World and by their celerity are every where present But we must of necessity understand him only in a comparative sense their agility and swiftness makes them instantly to pass from place to place whereas gross Bodies required a slow and successive motion but Ubiquity and Omnipresence is an Attribute of God Incommunicable to a Creature Again These evil Angels may be conceiv'd present in all places by their numbers and multitude not by their individual persons Phil. But i Si Agnus est ubique ergo hi qui cum to sunt ubique sunt S t Jerome in that Book argues fully for the ubiquity of the Saints in Heaven because it is written of them That they follow the Lamb whither soever be goeth Rev. 14. 4. And if the Lamb be every where present therefore they that are with him Theoph. This Argument cannot hold for then much more the human Nature and Body of Christ united unto the Divine Nature should be omnipresent which I know none to assert and therefore S t Augustins Interpretation of that place is this k Lib. de Sancta Virginit c. 27. Quid est eum sequi nisi imitari To follow him is to imitate him not as he is the only Son of God by whom all things were made but as he is the Son of Man giving us an example of all things necessary to be sollowed Bellarmin knew well the Invalidity of S t Jeromes consequence and therefore did not urge it for an Argument Phil. But that you love to contradict and spin out your Discourse you need not have perplex'd your self and me with these Answers For you know Bellarmine approves of neither of these two ways of the Saints knowledg in Heaven Because saith he celerity cannot suffice but true ubiquity is requir'd to hear all the Praiers that shall be made to a Saint perhaps in all places of the World at the same time And again he saith That neither Angels nor Saints in Heaven altho they were present with us can naturally know our mental Praiers Theoph. We account these to be substantial Arguments against the Invocation of Saints and Angels because they cannot be every where present to hear Praiers made from all parts and because they know not our thoughts and mental Praiers Phil. But these are answer'd by the the two next ways he proposeth and approveth of the Saints comprehension and knowledg One is l Sanctos in Deo omnia videre quae ad ipsos aliquo modo tertinent That the Saints do sec all things in God that concerns them even from the first instant of their blessedness Theoph. I pray tell me why doth the Cardinal following Aquinas and other School-men put in that tearm of Limitation In the Face of God they see and know all things that concern them We know all things are in God and in him represented as in a Glass and Mirror and therefore Pope Gregory the Great asks the Question m Quid est quod ibi nesciant ubi scientem omnia sciunt What can they be ignorant of who know him that knoweth all things And therefore In speculo Trinitatis as the Schools speak in the Beatifical Vision one would think all things should be manifest to the Saints and Angels and not only such things as concern them Phil. The reason is plain God is Speculum voluntarium such a Glass as represents according to his good pleasure and what he thinks meet unto those who have the happiness to see his Face And therefore the Angels who alwaies behold the Face of God yet know not all things not the day of Judgment not the Mystery of Christs Incarnation and Mans Redemtion not the calling of the Gentiles c. until they learn'd these things by the Preaching of the Gospel amidst the Congregation of the Faithful so saith S t Paul Ephes 3. 10. To the end that now unto Principalities and Powers in Heavenly places might be known by the Church the manifold Wisdom of God Theoph. Your Answer is rational and excellently serves my purpose Such as see the Face of God do not in that Beatifical Vision see and know all things but only such things as pleaseth him to revele unto them And therefore the fourth Opinion which Bellarmin mentions was That God doth revele unto the Saints in every instant such Particulars as concern them and so when Praiers are made unto them the Lord makes the Blessed Saints to know and hear their Praiers by particular Revelation Hereupon I demand how this is prov'd That it is the good pleasure of God constantly to revele unto the Saints whatsoever doth concern them or all the Praiers that are made unto them Phil. I do not find the Cardinal attemts to prove this because he had reason to take it for granted Theoph. Or rather because he had no proof to offer and in truth he doth not so well approve this way of particular Revelation from God to the Saints because as he argues well n Si indigerent Sancti novâ revelatione Ecclesia non diceret omnibus Sanctis Orate pro nobis sed peteret aliquando à Deo ut eis revelaret preces nostras If the Saints know our Praiers which we make to them by Revelation from God we should not so constantly say to them Pray for us but rather somtimes beseech Almighty God that he would please to revele our Praiers to those Saints we Invocate Phil. He prefers that Opinion as most profitable That the Saints in Glory alwaies standing in the presence of God and beholding his Face do in that Beatificall Vision behold all things which relaâ—e unto them and need no particular Revelation and therefore in the Vision of God they know and hear the Praiers that are made unto them even from the first instant of their Beatitude Theoph. And so three waies Bellarmin doth not approve whereby the Saints and Angels are concern'd to know our state and hear our Praiers Now the fourth which he sticks too That from the first instant of their happiness all things which concern them are manifest and revel'd unto them This cannot be true for then the Saints must know when they shall reassume their Bodies which certainly concerns them and so by consequence They must know the Day of the general Resurrection and of Judgment which we deny They must also know all the Praiers that shall be made to them unto the Worlds end and so by consequence the end of the World So must the Angels from the beginning know the Praiers that shall be made to them the laps'd state of
in these words h Oratione in Athanasium Do thou graciously look down upon us out of Heaven and direct this Holy People and feed and cherish us in peace and in our conflicts guide and supportus and bring us unto the same state of Glory with thy Self and such Blessed Spirits as are like Thee Theoph. Nazianzen was a great Orator and makes such Apostrophe's severally to the Saints upon whom he made his Panegyrics and yet this will not infer That he did believe they heard him or that he made this Application to them by way of Invocation no more then he did to Julian the Apostate after his decease unto whom he directs his Speech for a whole Leaf together in the close of his second Invective Nay you shall find this Orator somtimes to correct himself by an Epanor thosis in the midst of his Rhetorical Apostrophes in his first Invective against Julian in the words of the Prophet Isaiah he calls upon the Heaven and Earth to hear him a Ibid. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. Hear O Heaven and give ear O Earth And then it follows Hear O Soul of Constantius the Great if there be any sense in thee of these inferior things In his Fathers Funeral Oration he saith Now he advantages the Church of God more by his Praiers then before by his Doctrine and Preaching if it be not presumtion to say so And in the Funeral Oration of his Sister Gorgonia he is more expresly doubtful Whether this honor is given to the Saints departed as to be sensible of those things that are spoken of them Phil. b Illudsi non est dubitantis sed affirmant Bellarmin takes notice of such Passages and saith Those ifs are not of one doubting but asserting as when S t Paul said to Philemon If thou count me a Partner receive him as my self ver 17. he did not doubt of Philemons affection Theoph. The Circumstances shew the contrary and Bellarmin offers no proof of his consident Assertion but only because It may be so taken in one place it must be in these If your Doctors groundless Shifts and Answers must go for Oracles you may carry all before you For instance in the first If of Nazianzen in his Apostrophe to Constantius after his decease Hear O thou Blessed Soul of great Constantius If thou hast any knowledg of these things I speak c. Dares Bellarmin suppose that Constantius did hear Nazianzen Or that he was a Blessed Soul in Heaven who was so great a Persecuter of the Orthodox Christians in his life time and Protector of the Arrians and upon this account I much wonder how this Holy Father could make such honorable mention of an Arrian Emperor as to stile him c The most famous of Princes that ever were encreasing the heritage of Christ to his power For his zeal of the Orthodox Faith he is generally stiled Gregory the Divine But here we must reckon him to be a vehement Orator and many of his Sentences must be made good only by some Figures of Rhetoric Hyperbolies Apostrophes and the like Phil. Is this your way to answer the Fathers You formerly severely censur'd this way in Bellarmin when he said Chrysostom in many places spoke like an Orator and do you now fall under the same condemnations Theoph. I have given an answer unto Bellarmins Arguments out of Nazianzen and now I make this necessary Observation to the Reader for greater caution Phil. S t Hilary liv'd in this fourth Century an eminent Bishop in France who in his Commentary upon the 129 Psalm tells us That the Angels are Presidents of Churches Theoph. He brings a strange proof of the Assertion Rev. 2. 3. from the Angels of the Churches of Asia which are generally taken by Interpretors for the Bishops of those Churches and they cannot possibly stand for the Heavenly Powers and Spirits because some Infirmities are imputed to them Rev. 2 ver 4. That the Angel of the Church of Ephesus had left his first love that he should repent and do his first works That the Angel of the Church of Laodicea was luke-warm cap. 3. 16. Phil. I pray give me leave to urge the whole Testimony of this Father he saith We may in a probable sense call the Angels The Eyes of the Lord and his Ears his Hands and his Feet for they are his Ministring Spirits And altho the Divine Nature who knoweth all things need not their information yet our infirmity in Praing to God and deserving his savor needs their Spiritual Intercession Theoph. I pray How doth the Ministery and Intercession of Angels prove the Invocation of Saints Such impertinent Quotations are only brought to fill up the number and weary the Reader Phil. Bellarmin shews how the same Holy Father in Psal 124. speaks alike of the Intercession of the Holy Apostles and Prophets Theoph. True he doth Allegorize the Mountains which stand round about Jerusalem a Nec leve praesidium in Apostolis vel Patriarchis Prophetis vel potius in Ang. to be The guard of Saints or rather saith he of Angels about Gods People But leaving S t Hilaries Allegories I pray observe what the Prophet David adds immediatly As the Mountains stand about Jerusalem so the Lord is round about his People from hence-forth even for ever And Hilary thereupon declares b Benum quidem praesidium Angeli sed melius Dei The safe-guard of the Angels is good but of God much better Mean while here is not one syllable of our Invocation of Saints or Angels but only of their Intercession and Protection And by the way you may take this note along with you That Hilary was as bitter in his Invectives and had as great an Indignation against the Emperor Constantius as you but now heard Gregory Nazianzen did extol him Phil. It is not my work to commit the Fathers I proceed in Bellarmins proofs his next out of S t Ambrose is full and without Exception We must pray unto the Angels who are our Guards and to the Saints and Martyrs whose Patronage we may challenge as being of our own Substance they can intreat for our sins who have washt away their own if any they had with their Blood These are Gods Martyrs and our Bishops Over-seers of our Life and Actions let us not c Lib. de Viduis ultra medium Obsecrandi sunt Ang. c. Obs sunt Martyres Corporis pignora blush to admit these as Intercessors for our infirmities because They when they did overcome were yet sensible of the infirmity of the body Theoph. Saint Ambrose was but a young Divine a novice and Cathechumen when he was chosen Bishop of Millam he was train'd up in Civill affairs pleading Causes as a Deputy of the Country administring justice therfore we have no teason to ground our Faith upon his dictates He speaks often piously but not alwaies Orthodoxly do you allow that passage of his in this very proof
your Churches praier to Her b Tunos ab hoste protege That She would defend ut from our ghostly Enemy Because as Eve was overcome by him so Mary should be victorious and bruise his head and so the recompence should be made unto mankind by the same Sex which had transgress'd Phil. I still must mind you of leaving these excursions and shew wherein the Church of Rome offends in this point of the Invocation of Saints Theoph. I shew you how she offends in owning the vulgar translation and giving occasion unto those usual blasphemies concerning the Virgin Mary However I will proceed and shew how in her general Councils as she esteem them in her Popes in her Liturgies she hath given great Offence and scandal unto the Israel of God In that great Lateran Council begun an o 1512 Julius the second being Pope and ended 5 years after under Pope Leo the tenth consisting of 114 Bishops we shall read in c Bin. Tom. 9. in Conc. Lateran Binius his Edition of the Councils the 9 th tome how in the opening of the several sessions of that Council for the greater solemnity Homilies were made by men of great fame and Learning among them Caietanus begins the 2 d session with his Oration or Sermon and premiseth this address to the Virgin Mary d Quoniam nihil est quod homo sine divino quxilio possit pollicori ad gloriasam ipsant Viâ—ginem Dei Matrem primo convertam Orationem meam Aâ—t Maria. Because man can promisse to himself nothing without divine assistance therefore in the first place I will address my praier unto the glorious Virgin Mother of God Hail Mary c. So Balthasar Del Rio in the opening of the seventh session begins his Sermon a Vt non inprata audire atque audita exequi possitis Deiparae Virg. Maria praesidium imploremus Ave Maria c. That ye may hear acceptable things spoken and perform them let us implore the protection of the Virgin Mary Mother of God Hail Mary full of grace c. Phil. These are instances of no direful consequence In the Solemn performance of those holy exercises they implore the assistance of the Blessed Virgin you may suppose the assistance of her praiers Theoph. We in our Homilies and Sermons apply our selves to the blessing of Gods assistance and you in the first place seek to the divine assistance of the Blessed Virgin for so Caietanus appears to call it however you see it is the mode and form even in the presence of so great Council That the Invocation of the Blessed Virgin should justle out all supplication to God in their Sermons for otherwise they would not alwaies have kept to this way For so in the ninth session Antonius Puccius a Bishop and Clerk of the Apostolical Chamber having propos'd great things to speak of b Antequà m haec aggredior per Angelicam salutat beatiss Virg. opem suppliciter implorabo Ave Maria c. Before I enter saith he upon these things I will humbly implore help from the most Blessed Virgin in the Angelical Salutation Hail Mary c. But the last instance I will give in the tenth session is observable the Homily was made by a Venerable Archbishop named Stephen 70 years old and having design'd to insist upon considerable points out of the 48 Psalme he praies in these words c Ipsa Virgo beata Angelorum Domina fens omnium gratiarum quae omnes haereses interemit cujus eperá magna Reform Principum concord veâ—t centra Infid expeditie feri debet May the Blessed Virgin Lady of Angels the fountain of all graces afford her help who hath slain all heresies and by whose assistance the great reformation in hand the unity of Princes the expedition against Infidels must be carried on And because this was not enough the good old man improves his youthful Muse to compose an Ode unto the Virgin to implore her assistance as well in Meeter as in Prose He goes on in this mode of supplication Thou art the splendor ornament Everlasting light of all Virgins the Mother of the most high the glory of Mankind Blessed Mary Thou alone ô Virgin dost rule the Stars Thou art the light of Heaven and Earth and the Sea we beseech Thee to favor our attemts That I may unlock the sacred senses whichâ—ly hid in these severe writings And Scale the high places of the Earth Thou being our Captain Omnium splendor decus perenne Virginum lumen genetrix superni Gloria humani generis Maria Unica nostri Sola tu Virgo dominaris astris Sola tu terrae Maris atque Coeli Lumen inceptis faveas rogamus Inclyta nostris Vt queam sacros reserare sensus Qui latent chartis nimiùm severis Ingredi celsae duce Te benignâ Moenia Terrae You see the Authentick practise of your Church before so solemn an Assembly These Applications made to the Blessed Virgin in solemn forms of Praier and in such Terms are inconsistent with the rules of Piety and Religion Phil. You may let this pass upon the score of a Poetical Licence Theoph. In our Praiers we should be devout and modest not licentious and bold but alas if you look back upon his supplication in Prose you will find it more extravagant his Luxuriant Fancy was not there confin'd to measures But from these instances you may take the measures of their Licenc'd and most authentic impiety such Hymnes made the best Melody and were most acceptable unto your Fathers of the Church and all her Children in the Antichristian times Phil. Your indiscreet Zeal transports you beyond the rule of Charity which might instruct you to put a fair gloss upon some harsh Expressions Theoph. I dare not call evil good neither have I learn'd the Art of your Doctors to undertake the defence of great Impieties and Blasphemies and make them plausible by a distinction The next general Council as you reckon was that of Trent where we have the Doctrine of the Invocation of Saints establisht and all those declared Impious who think otherwise And altho the Council pen'd the decree in most cautious terms being awakened with the exceptions of reformed Churches a Concil Trid. sess 25. yet we may plainly there discover That it is not their Praiers only which we must sue for but also the help and succor of the Saints in Heaven It is good and profitable humbly to call upon them and to fly to their Praiers and aid and help If the council had intended only the Assistance of their Praiers they would not have multiplied terms without cause in their decree But in these words they have left open a Gap for the Saints votaries to justify their Praiers to the Saints for their aid and protection to expect effectual favours from them not only by their Praiers but also by their Active powers These things will easily fall under this clause of
that stand raise them that fall Correct our Manners Actions and Life and guide us in the way of peace In their Hymne for that day they declare Wonders All things obey and veild to Thomas Plague Diseases Death and Divels Fire Water Earth and Seas Thomas hath fil'd the World with glory The world to Thomas yields obeysance Thomas shines with new Miracles He restores the Members to the Gelt He adornes the Blind with sight Cleanseth the Lepers and their spots And free 's the dead from hands of death Thomae cedunt parent omna Pestes morbi mors daemonia Ignis Aer Tellus Maria Thomas mundum replevit gloriâ Thomae Mundus prestat Obsequia Novis sulget Thomas Miraculis Membr is donat Castratos masculis Ornat uisu privatos oculis Mundat Leprae conspersos maculis Solvis Mortis ligatos vinculis Opem nobis O Thoma poâ—rige Rege stantes c. There is a farther account how a Country Man going to visit the Martyrs Tomb was just led into the River by a Waggon on the Bridge And rising and sinking five times he was at last cast upon the Shore safe For having call'd upon the Martyr for his aid and that he would not suffer his 〈◊〉 Pilgrim to perish a grave Bishop aâ—pear'd upholding and conducting him to land This is the Legend of S t Thomas of Becket which your Church hath adopted into the Service and Office for the Feast And I have bin the more particular that you may observe well the gross Fables and Absurdities therein that your Church should impose such Stories of Miracles upon the credulous People And is it possible you should be reduc'd to such a low esteem of the pretious Blood of Christ that you must Petition our Blessed Savior to bring you to Heaven by the Blood of his Martyr Thomas And for a Conclusion I pray seriously consider this pretended Martyr He died in the defence of the Popes Usurpations among us and the Pope hath requited him with a Saintship whereas he had great success to go to Heaven so immediatly with such Qualifications of a turbulent and haughty Spirit And this usâ—ers in another grievance and just Exception we take against your Invocation of Saints because you pray to some Saints of whom you have no assurance that they are in Heaven nay of whom you cannot prove that ever they were in being what think you of the Beggars Saint S t Lazarus a Part. 3. Tom. 4. Tract 2. Salmeron assures us That he is every where esteemed a Saint and Protector of the poor Canoniz'd by the Church b Baronius Tom. 1. Anno 33. N. 44. Multis locis in memoriam Lazari c. worship'd with Altars and Images and Praiers made unto him And I have read an Argument some of your Doctors have urg'd to prove it an History of Dives and Lazarus in the Gospel and not a Parable because Lazarus is a Canoniz'd Saint and therefore doubtless such a Person there was of whom our Savior in the Gospel gives an Historical account But I have shewed above from the judgment of divers Fathers that it is a Parable Theophilact calls him fool who thinks otherwise and that by Dives and Lazarus only were represented the Rich and Poor by a Fiction of Persons suited to a Parable and so your Jesuit Maldonate affirms Now for your Church to make a real Saint of this Parabolical Representation to whom you make your Addresses in Praier somthing resembles your other kind of Devotion Praying unto or worshipping the Image instead of the Saint Your Church might as well have made the Prodigal Son returning a Saint So for S t George you cannot make any Historical Demonstration that such a Holy Person and Martyr there was George of Capâ—adox was a fierce Arrian mightily opposing Athanasius but he was slain for being a Christian b 〈…〉 an â—eathen Prince and so by his Heretical Faction esteemed a Martyr whom they represented for a great Champion and Captain under Christ fighting against the great Magician of Alexandria as they impiously stiled Holy Athanasius otherwise we rather account Saint George as he is constantly represented in his Image flaying a Dragon in rescue of a Virgin to be an Emblem of our Blessed Savior overcoming the Red Dragon our great Enemy the Devil and rescuing his Church as a chast Virgin from his temtations and force a Martyrol Rom. Apr. 23. Symboli potius quam Historiae alicujus c. Baronius acknowledgeth the Picture of S t George on Horse-back armed cap-a-pe and flaying a Dragon to be a Symbolical Image rather then a true History And that Jacobus de Voragine He that made the Golden Legend made it an History An Emblem saith b Hyperius de 〈◊〉 Stud. Theol. l. 3. c. 7. Hyperius of Christian Magistrates Who defend the Church of Christ as a pure Virgin from the snare of the Devil and his accursed Instruments interposing their power against the pernicious attemts of Heretics and so by the Blessing of God S t George shall be the Emblem of our most Noble Order of the Garter even unto the end of the World What shall I say of the Gyant S t Christopher from the Etymology of whose name you have deriv'd a Fable That being of a vast height at least 12 Cubits in length he carried our Blessed Savior over a deep and dangerous River guiding himself by a Staff like a Weavers beam c Hyperius citate Villavincent us makes him an Emblem of a Preacher of the Gospel who holding forth Christ in his word visible unto the People is encompass'd with Waves and Tempests and Waters of Affliction and Persecution but supports himself and wades thro with the staff of his Christian hope the expectation of the exceeding recompence of reward After this sort to fill up your Kalendar of Saints your Doctors might do well to go down into Egypt and bring their ancient Hieroglyphics to be Canonized and Worship'd Phil. You may do better to forbare scossing and study the Defence which our Doctors make against all the Exceptions your side have produc'd concerning these and other Saints Theoph. I have search'd and find them so impertinent that I lost my labor and shall not until I be urg'd farther to it trouble you and the Reader with the discovery Phil. I thank you for sparing your self and your Friend together for I begin to be weary of this Discourse which hath bin drawn out beyond expectation and me-thinks gives but little satisfaction Theoph. My serious endeavors to open your Eyes unto a discovery of the Errors of your Church are abundantly satisfactory unto my Conscience altho the success should fail and you still stop your Ears against the voice of the Charmer And yet I must trespass upon your patience in one more consideration touching the Canonizing of Saints If an Error should be committed therein it would be diffusive and spread all over your Church Praiers may be