of it but wil expect a syllogisme to bee made of it for the proofe of Purgatorie and then I shall further consider what to say vnto it Wee do beleeue that they onely be members of that bodie whereof Christ Iesus Coloss 12. ◠is the head which bee either triumphing with him in heauen or be fighting for him against Sathan sinne and the world here vpon earth Saint Paul saith that Christ came to make peace by the bloud of his crosse and to reconcile the things which are in earth and the things which are in heauen That is to say his whole vniuersall Church whereof part was alreadie in heauen and part remained behinde vpon the earth They therefore that bee in Purgarorie bee no members of his bodie nor are to bee deliuered by him but being the Popes creatures are either by him who can at his pleasure emptie and scoure Purgatorie to bee deliuered or else still in that fained fire to be tormented Neither hath true Christian charitie so much as the cursed couetousnesse of Priests beene the bellowes to blow that forged fire for the heating of their kitchens Now that I haue answered your reasonlesse reasons of our denying this article of Christian faith the communion of Saints I will briefly shew what is our beleefe of it Wee beleeue that all the Saints of God and members of the holie Catholike Church haue communion and fellowshippe with Iesus Christ and are partakers of all his benefits Of this communion Christ speaketh I am the vine yee are the Joh. 15. 5 branches hee that abideth in me and I in him the same bringeth forth much fruite Of this speaketh S. Paul God is faithful 1. Cor. 1. 9. by whom yee are called vnto the fellowship of his sonne Iesus Christ our Lord. This communion or fellowship is wrought by faith by the which Christ dwelleth in the hearts of all Ephes 3. 17. his elect and faithfull people and by which wee be graffed into him to receiue all grace and goodnes from him as the branch doth from the vine or stocke And we beleeue that all the faithfull and Godly bee knit togither in loue as the Coloss 2. 2 Apostle speaketh whereby they are to communicate those graces and gifts which God hath bestowed vpon them to the edifying and helping of others in such sort as GOD hath appointed Yea wee beleeue that all the faithfull haue communion and fellowship together in that they haue all one heauenly father one Iesus Christ their redeemer and mediator one holy Ghost their sanctifier are iustified by one faith common to all the elect dedicated to GOD by one baptisme called by one Gospell to bee partakers of one kingdome of glory This is the summe of our beleefe concerning this article wherein wee would know what fault you can finde But your communion and vnion consisteth in being vnder one Pope of Rome vnder whose obedince whosoeuer is not you thinke he cannot be saued as is before shewed neither will you haue communion with him And therefore whereas Christianity hath continued as I said before in Greece Russia Aethiopia Armenia and other countries amongst whome no doubt but God hath had and now hath his elect and chosen people yet you haue no communion or felloship with them because they be not vnder your one Pope And much lesse haue you communion with the Saints in heauen because you haue not the faith of Gods elect For did the faithfull Patriakes Prophets Apostles and others beleeue to bee deliuered from the fire of hell by the merits of Nicholas Titus 1. 1. or to ascend into heauen by the blood of Thomas Becket Nay Iesus Christ is the onely mercy seate into the which the two Cherubins did looke that is as I take it both the faithfull before his comming in the flesh and they that be after doe looke only vpon Christ in him onely to seeke and finde mercy Now let vs see the third article of our Creed which you say we deny which is Remission of sinnes Here I beseech the Christian reader to consider who they bee that deny this article containing a principall point of Christian religion and saluation whether we or this accuser with his partners Wee beleeue that whereas we be children of wrath vnprofitable seruants and prodigall children that haue sinned against heauen and our heauenly father and are so deepely indebted to God that we be neuer able to make payment for the which he might iustly throw vs into the dungeon of damnation for euer wee I say beleeue that he hath giuen his onely begotten sonne that whosoeuer Job 3. 16. Ephes 17. beleeueth in him should not perish but haue euerlasting life by whome wee haue redemption through his blood euen the Coloss 2. 14. 1. Ioh. 2. 12. forgiuenes of sinnes according to his rich grace and that our sinnes are forgiuen vs for his names sake And we beleeue that God of his great mercy in Iesus Christ doth forgiue vs not onely our sinnes but also the punishment due vnto them and which we haue deserued by them accepting vs for vessels of his mercy and heires of his glory Now this accuser of vs and his companions doe first beleeue that they doe make satisfaction to Gods iustice for their sinnes For whereas our sinnes be called debts and satisfaction is a payment it followeth that if we doe make satisfaction for them then we neither need nor can haue forgiuenesse of them For our satisfaction and Gods forgiuenesse cannot stand together For euen as if I owe a man a hundreth pounds and I pay him he doth not forgiue it and if he forgiue it I do not pay it So if we by satisfaction make paiment to GOD for our sinnes then hee doth not forgiue them if he forgiue them then wee doe not make satisfaction for them Now let vs see what is the doctrine of these men concerning this their satisfaction whereby they make paiment themselues to God for their debts Bishoppe Fisher whome I suppose the Pope hath fainted for standing so John Fisher in Psa 1. poenitent stifly in his cause writeth hereof thus Thirdly some there be which by grace in this life haue so punished them-selues for their offences that they haue made a sufficient recompence for Jbidem them Againe So doth hearty weeping for sinne expell sinne is a sufficient iust recompence for it And againe But wheras In Psa 2. poenitent any creature hath made due satisfaction in this life he neuer after that shall suffer more paine and also is cleane out of debt and nothing after that shall euer bee claimed of him Againe They bee called recti corde that haue made satisfaction so Jbidem plentifully that God can aske no more of them And in his Latine booke against Luther he hath these words Secundo supponimus quod quanquam nemo sit cui non cumulatius praemium in coelis Deus largiatur quà m hic in
in our writings auoyding all curious questions and intricate and needlesse distinctions we appeale to the consciences of al that reade and heare vs. As touching your method concerning errours in doctrine and inordinate affections in manners if you can proue that our wits be inueigled with them and our liues stained with these more then wee can prooue euen your holy Fathers the Popes forsooth Peters successors and Christes vicars haue beene you shall winne the victorie You seeme to attribute too much to our very naturall faculties to the iudging and discerning of truth proposed not considering the corruption of our naturall faculties by sinne how both the minde is blinded and the will peruerted Our Sauiour Christ saith The light shineth in darkenesse and the darkenesse Iohn 1. 5. 1. Cor. 2. 14. comprehendeth it not Saitn Paul saith that animalis homo the naturall man perceiueth not the things of the spirit of GOD for they are foolishnes vnto him neither can hee know them because they are spiritually discerned But of this I forbeare to speake any more and also will leaue the other wast words in your letter and doe come vnto your articles of faith The Pamphlet The first article concerning knowledge and faith The Protestants haue no faith nor Religion THe Protestants haue no faith no hope no charitie no repentance no iustification no Church no alter no sacrifice no Priest no Religion no Christ the reason is for if they haue then the world was without them for a thousand yeeres as they themselues must needes confesse videlicet all the time their Church was eclipsed and 1500. as we will prooue by all records of antiquitie as Histories Councels monuments of ancient Fathers Whereby it plainely appeareth that the synagogue of the Iewes was more constant in continuance more ample for place then the Church of Christ For the haue had their sinagogue visible in diuers countries euer since Christs death and passion euen vntill this day which is the very path to lead men into Atheisme as though Christ were not as yet come into the world a Isa 60. 11. whose admirable promises are not accomplished b Math 16 18. whose assistance hath failed in preseruing his Church vnto the worlds end whose presence was absent many hundred yeeres before â— cap 28 20. the finall consumation and consequenetly they open the gap to all Machiuillians who say that our Sauiour was one of the deceiuers of the world promising so much concerning his Church and performing so little Answer LOoking in this first article to haue found a syllogisme which this worthy writer vseth in some articles following but heere for want of a good medium as it may seeme to frame one by hath omitted I found a false assertion and a foolish probation The assertion that we haue no faith Haue we no faith The Deuils haue some faith Saint Iames saith The Deuills beleeue tremble and haue wee no faith wee are much beholden Iaâ— 2 19. vnto you for your charitable opinion of vs. You are by the doctrine of Saint Paule not to thinke so euill but to 1 Cor. 13. 7. hope the best of them that professe Iesus Christ and his holy Gospell But to this your false and slaunderous assertion I will oppose a true affirmation and confession Wee beleeue all that God hath deliuered to vs by Moses the Faith Prophets and Apostles in the old and new Testament yea we beleeue the contents of the Creeds of the Apostles Nicene Athanasius and yet haue we no faith Wee hope Hope to passe hereafter from death vnto life and to bee partakers of that kingdome of glory which God hath promised and Iesus Christ hath purchased for all those that truly beleeue in him We trust that we haue Charitie loue both towards God and man although wee confesse not in such Charitâ—e full and perfect measure as wee ought to haue Wee with Saint Iohn say Hee that loueth not his brother abideth in 1. Iohn 3 14. death Wee acknowledge repentance to bee one of those Repentance chiefe heads wherein the summe of Christianity is comprised Saint Marke setting forth the summe and substance of Christes doctrine comprehendeth it in these two Repent Marke 1 16. Acts 20 21. and beleeue the Gospell so did saint Paule witnes sing both to the Iewes and to the Grecians the repentance towards GGD and faith towards our Lord Iesus Christ We beleeue to be iustified not by our owne works of righteousnes which wee vnprofitable seruants and prodigall Iustification Luke 17. 10. 15. 21. children haue done nor by the merits of any Saints in heauen or in earth but by the mercies of God purchased vnto vs by the blessed and bloudy merits of Iesus Christ and applied vnto our soules by the band of faith by the John 3. 36. Rom. 3. 25. 4. 5. Ephes 2. 8. Ephes 3. 17. Church which Christ doth dwell in our hearts and is made ours We beleeue that wee are true members of that holy Catholike Church which is Christes misticall body and whereof hee is the head which is the spouse and hee the bridegroome which is his flocke and he the shepeard which is the heauenly Hierusalem the Mother of vs all Galath 4. 26 finally which is the number of Gods elect and chosen people that shall rest with Abraham Isaac and Iacob in the Math. 8. 11 Kingdome of Heauen And wee know that wee haue perticular and visible Churches wherein Gods word is more truly preached the Sacraments seales of the word are more purely ministred and Gods name more faithfully inuocated and called vpon then in any or all the Romish Synagogues Indeed wee haue no Idolatrous Alters to offer either carnall or externall sacrifices vpon as though Altars Christs sweet smelling sacrifice were not yet offered but wee haue Mensam Domini the Lords Table where-vpon we minister the Supper of Christ which is a holy Sacrament 1. Cor. 10. 21. of Christs body and bloud giuen for vs a memoriall of his death and passion and a pledge of our redemption and saluation purchased thereby Wee haue that sweete smelling and sufficient Sacrifice which Iesus Christ by his eternall spirit offered without fault vnto GOD to purge Sacrifice Hebre. 9. 14. our consciences from dead workes to serue the liuing GOD. As for the sacrifice of the Masse as being iniurious to the said sacrifice of Iesus Christ which he once for all and for euer offered vpon the Altar of the Crosse wee deny and defie We haue no shauen nor greased Priests to offer the Priests said false and forged sacrifice of the Masse but wee haue priests pastours or ministers how-so-euer wee terme them according to the ordinance of Christ to preach his holy Gospell and to administer his sacraments to his Church We haue and vse that religion which hath the testimonie of Religion Rom. 3. the law and prophets
deliuering to the Corinthians the supper of our Sauiour Christ according to the institution which he had receiued of Christ deliuered not onely the bread but also the Cup to the whole Church of Corinth which I suppose you will not say were all Priests 1. Cor. 11. 25 26. 27. This Cup is the new Testament in my bloud As often as yee shall eate this bread and drinke this Cup yee shew the Lords death till hee come Wherefore whosoeuer shall eate this bread and drinke the Cup of the Lord vnworthily shall bee guilty of the body and bloud of the Lord. Paschasius expoundeth these words thus Bibite ex hoc omnes hoc est tam ministri quam reliqui credentes Drinke ye all of this that is to say both ministers and the rest that beleeue The glosse as it is alledged Cassan de vtraque specie by Cassander thus Bibite ex hoc omnes scilicet sine personarum acceptione Drinke yee all of this that is all without respect of persons So doth Chrysostom Omnibus vnum corpus Chrysost in 2 Cor. hom 18 Theoph in 1. Cor. 11. proponitur poculum vnum One body and one Cup is propounded to all So saith Theophilactus Tremendus calix pari cunctis conditione traditus est The fearefull Cup is in like sort deliuered vnto all Yea this absurd exposition of theirs is contrary to the practise of the Primitiue Church and to all antiquitie as might bee shewed and of some Papists is confessed But to proceede and to shew how they handle other places I will ioyne two places togither because they doe often alleage them together to prooue the Popes supremacie ouer the whole Church of God dispersed ouer the whole world The one Hosea 1. 11. Then shall the Children of Iudah and the Children of Israel be gathered together and appoint themselues one head The other place is Iohn 10. 16. There shall be one fold and one shepheard These places bee alleaged Ioan. de Paris de potest regia Papali ca 3. by Pope Pius the second Epist 288. by Iohannes de Parisijs by D. Harding c. expounding the same not of D. Hard. confut Apolog. cap. 3. dâ—â—s 2. Christ but of the Pope to be this one head and one shephard The which what a priuat and false exposition it is I neede not greatly to shew it is so plaine and apparent The Hieron in Oseam cap. 1. first place of Hosea Saint Hierome expoundeth thus Haec omnia fient quia magnus est dies seminis Dei qui interpretatur Christus i. All these things shall come to passe because it is the great day of the seede of God which is expounded not the Pope but Christ so also doth Frier Lira Congregabuntur filij Iudae idest Apostoli c. There shall assemble Nicol Lira in Oscam cap. 1. together the Children of Iuda that is to say the Apostles and the Children of Israel that is to say the heathen conuerted together that is to say in one Church and shall appoynt vno them-selues one head that is to say one Christ So doth S. Augustine de ciuitate Dei lib. 8. cap. 28. Whose words for shortnes sake I omit The other place is so plaine that a Cobler by hearing or reading of it may perceiue that our Sauiour Christ spake it of himselfe and not of the Pope He saith I am the good shepheard and knowe Ioh the 10. 14. mine and am knowne of mine I lay downe my life for my sheepe Other sheepe I haue also which are not of this fold them also must I bring and they shall heare my voyce and there shall be one sheepefolde and one shepheard Therefore doth my father loue me because I lay downe my life that I might take it againe Who is so blind as seeth not these words to be spoken of our Sauiour Christ him-selfe and not of the Pope Yet that doughty or rather doltish Doctor Iohannes de Parisâ—â—s is not ashamed to say that it is not to bee vnderstoode of Christ but of some other Minister which should rule in his place His words be these Congregabuntur filii Iuda filii Vbi supra Israel vt ponant sibi caput vnum Ioan. 10. fiet vnum ouile vnâ—s pastor Quod quidem de Christo intelliginon potest sed de alio aliquo ministro qui praesit loco eius i. The Children of Iuda and the Children of Israel shal be gathered together and shall appoynt them-selues one head and Ioh. 10. There shall bee one fold and one shephard which cannot bee vnderstood of Christ but of some other minister that must rule in his place Behold the absurdity of this saying and exposition and let this cauiller who in his questions and challenge so disdainefully despiseth our learning consider what a blind ignorant and vnlcarned Doctor and writer this was that so absurdly expoundeth this place and contrarily to the plaine words denieth them to be vnderstood of our Sauiour Christ and blasphemously attributeth that vnto the Pope which is onely proper and peculiar to Nic. Lirâ— in Ioha cap. 10. Iesus Christ Frier Lira was of better iudgement who writeth thus Fiet vnus pastor idest Christus i. There shall be one pastor that is to say Christ I will shew another place or two in like manner expounded for the proofe of the same matter In the booke of the ceremonies of the Church of Rome the which I wish were in English that our English Catholikes might see the goodly ceremonies and orders of the Church it is thus written Papa in nocte Lib. 1. Caerem titul 7. natiuitatis domini benedicet ensem quem postea donat â—â—cui principi in signum infini â— potentiae pontifici collatae iuxta illud data est mihi omnis potestas in coelo in terra Item dominabitur à mari vsque ad mare à flumine vsque ad terminos orbis terrarum i. The Pope in the night of the feast of Christs Natiuitie blesseth a sword for a signe of the infinit power giuen to him which hee afterward bestoweth vpon some Prince according to that saying All power is giuen to me both in heauen and in earth also He shall rule from the sea vnto theÌ„ sea and from the flood vnto the ends of the world Are not these sayings thinke you finely expounded of the Pope whereof the one our Sauiour Christ himsefe spake In Concil Lâ—teron sub Leâ— 1â— pag. 671. and the other the Prophet Dauid prohesied of Iesus Christ him-selfe And the former of these places Stephen the Archbishop of Patraca applied vnto Pope Leo the 10. in the Councell of Lateran in the audience of the Pope him-selfe who thankefully accepted it and suffered it to be published and printed and so to this day was neuer by any Papist disliked By these places any man may discerne and iudge whether this Romish prelate be not that
downe in holy writ what there is deliuered that they beleeue what there is cōcealed lieth without the circumference of their beliefe Alas poore ignorance What heretike beleeueth not so much certainly few or none so that by this means al damned hereticks which beleeue the scriptures beleeue alike and they beleeue as much as our Protestants and ours no more then they But the Protestant will replie that hee beleeueth the Scripture in a true sense truely expounded and all other heretikes in an erronious sense and falsely interpreted And they will say as much of their Religion and beleefe and hold you◠exposition hereticall and theirs orthodoxall Againe are you not bound to beleeue the canticles or song of Salomon as a part of your faith and where finde you in the scriptures deliuered that such a booke is Gods word and as such an one ought by faith to bee beleeued That Sunday should bee kept holy-daie and Saterdaie the Iewes Saboth prophained in Gods word is not reuealed and yet by Protestants beleeued Moreouer to beleeue whatsoeuer is contained in the scripture is a generall confused folded implicitie faith when wee demaund what a man is bound to beleeue wee aske what hee is obliged to beleeue expresly distinctlie explicitlie To beleeue all the scripture distinctly explicitly cannot bee preformed by all Protestants since it supposeth a perfect and distinct knowledge of all the scripture wherevnto neuer mortall man attained the Apostles perhaps excepted Some will limit their beleefe to their creed saying that nothing ought to be beleeued which is not in the Apostles creed But then I would demaund of them whether that wee ought to beleeue that the scripture is the word of God that baptisme is a sacrament that in the Eucharist is the bodie of Christ by faith to what article should these be reduced seeing they are not contained in the creed or how shall we know infallibly how these be matters of faith since they are not contained in the creed others denie some articles of their creed also for the Protestants denie three articles of our creed and the puritans fiue The first is the Catholike Church Credo ecclesiam sanctam Catholicam I beleeue the holie Catholike Church the which in very Math. 26. Isa 60. deede they doe not beleeue because Catholike is vniuersall and so the Church of Christ which wee are bound to beleeue must bee vniuersall for all time comprehending all ages and vniuersall for place comprehending all nations but that Church which the Protestants beleeue was interrupted all the ages betwixt the Apostles and Luther which was 1400. yeares or in verie deed was neuer seene before Luthers daies therefore that Church they beleeue cannot bee Catholike Neither is it vniuersali in place beeing contained within the narrow bounds of England which is accompted but as a corner of the world for the Lutherans in Germanie the Hugonotes in France and the Gues in Flanders detest their Religion as much as the Catholikes neither will they ioyne issue with them in diuers essentiall points And therefore the Protestants Church which they beleeue can no more be called Catholike or vniuersall then England the vniuersall world or Kent the Kingdome of England or apruned bough a whole tree or a dead singer a man or a rotten tooth the whole head The second article is the communion of Saints the which they many waies deny First by not beleeuing that Christ hath instituted seauen Sacraments wherein the Saints of the Church communicate and especiallie the true and real presence of our Sauiour Christ in the Eucharist by which all the faithfull receiuers participating of 1. Cor. 01. 17. one the self same body are made one bodie as all the partes of a mans bodie are made one liuing thing by participating one soule Secondly they deny the communion of the Church militant Gen. 48. v. 16. Apoca. 1. v. 4. and triumphant by exclaiming against inuocation of Saints by which holy exercise the blessed Saints in heauen and wee in earth communicate we by prayer glorifying them and they by meditation obtaining our request Thirdly they deny the communion of the Church militant and the soules in purgatory bereauing them of that Christian charitie which charitable compassion and merciful pitty requireth and by natural affection the members of one body helpe one another The third article is remission of sinnes for they acknowledge no such effect in the Sacrament of Baptisme but onely count it as an external signe or seale of a prereceiued grace or fauor of God Ad Tit. 3. by his external predestination against the expresse word of God which therefore calleth this Sacrament the lauer of regeneration Ioh. 20. for that in it the soule dead by sinne is newly regenerate by grace Moreouer they allow not the Sacrament of pennance wherein all actuall sinnes committed after Baptisme are cancelled that which exceedeth all in absurditie is to deny that our sinnes are all perfectly forgiuen but onely not imputed and as it were veiled or couered with the passion of Christ all the botches and biles the filth and abhomination of sinne still remaining and as it were exhaling a most pestiferous sent in the sight of God for let them shift themselues as they list and scarfe their sores according to their fancies yet no veile nor mantell can couer their deformitie of sinne from the piercing eyes of Jo◠8. ver 24. Ioh. 16. v. 13. And D. Bu◠ley contendeth to proue it in his answer to this article albeit he vnderstandeth not the reason here alledged for if he did hee were to absurd to deny it Isa 66. ver 24. Gods perfect vnderstanding from which nothing can be concealed Fourthly the Puritanes in effect deny that Christ is the Sonne of God for they peremptorily affirme that Christ is God of himselfe and not God of God So that he receiued not his diuinitie from his father The which position flatly taketh away the nature of a sonne for the nature of a sonne is to receiue his substance of his Father and it implyeth contradiction that the Sonne receiueth his person of his Father and not his substance and essence for the substance of God is essentiall to euery person in trinitie Fiftly finally they deny the descension of Christ into hell and desperately defend that he suffered the Paines of hell vpon the Crosse wherby they blaspheme most horribly that sacred humanitie as if Christ had dispaired of his saluation as if God had hated him and he had hated God Marke 9. 48. Math. 25. 41. as if he had bene afflicted and tormented with anguish of mind for his offences for which he was depriued of the sight of God and eternally to be depriued all which horrible punishments are especially included in the paines of Hell and whosoeuer ascribeth them to Christ blasphemeth more horribly then Arius who denied him to God for lesse absurditie it were to deny him to be God then to make
sola sacrameÌ„ta in EuaÌ„gelio manifestè tradita legimus i We read that these only 2. sacraments are plainely deliuered to vs in the Gospell yet did hee not deny this article of faith Your owne doctor Alexander de Hales flatly affirmeth yâ— neither Christ nor his Apostles did Alexand. de Halis par quest â—4 men 1. institute ordain the Sacrament of Confirmation but yâ— it was afterward ordained in the councel called Meldense yet he denied not this article And therfore you ouershot your self in saying that they which beleeue not yâ— Chtist did institue 7. sacraments deny this article of faith The coÌ„munion of Saints But to proceed with you concerning the true reall presence of Christ in the Eucharist we deny the same not to the faith of the godly worthy receiuer but to the mouth teeth of the carnal eater We beleeue say that Christs body bloud in as much as they were offred vpon the crosse for our redeÌ„ption are the spiritual food of our soules without which wee can neither liue vnto God heare nor liue with God hereafter and that the same is offred to vs partly in the promises of the Gospel partly in the sacrameÌ„ts of Baptisme Christs supper is in both appreheÌ„ded of vs by faith without which neither the word nor Sacraments can profit vs. But here I must put you in mind that you corruptly alleage a place of S. Paul 1. Cor. 10. 17. foisting in this word Body for Bread S. Paules words be thus we that are many are one bread and one body because we are partakers of one bread This shifting of the words of the holy Ghost is too vsual with your companions Bounderius a Louaine Frier alleaging Compend concept titul 21. act the words of Saint Paul in the next chapter verse 27. Quicunque manducauerit panem hunc c. Hee that eateth this bread c. putteth out the word panem and foisteth in the word carnem flesh alleaging it thus Qui manducat carnem bibet calicem Domini indigne c. He that eateth the flesh drinketh the cup of the Lord vnworthily c. D. Harding in his confutation of the Apology intreating Confut. Apolo cap. 16. diuis 1 of Purgatory alleaging the words of S. Paul 2. Cor. 7. 1. to proue satisfaction for sinnes by that fained fire putteth out Sanctification and in place thereof putteth Satisfâ—tation alleaging it thus making perfect satisfaction in the feare of God Cardinall Hosius changeth the words of Saint Paul alleaging them thus Neque ferre possunt vt per verbum Deisigno Consâ— Petri 10 cap. 13. crucis vlla creatura sanctificetur They cannot abide that any creature should bee sanctified by the word of God and signe of the crosse Hee putteth out prayer and putteth in the signe of the Crosse as a more holy thing The foresaid Bunderius doth most shamefully alleage a Ibid titul 3. 0. arti 5. place of the Apostlein this sort Nam si cinis vâ—tâ—lae conspersas populum sanctificauit atque mundauit quantò magis aqua sale conspersa diuinis precibus sacrata poulum sanctificat atque mundat If the ashes of an heifer sprinkled haue sanctified and cleansed the people how much more shall water sprinkled with salt being hallowed with diuine prayers sanctifie and cleanse the people c. The words of the Apostle bee these If the bloud of bulles and goats and Heb. 9. 13. the ashes of an heifer sprinkling them that are vncleane sanctifieth as touching the purifying of the flesh how much more shall the bloud of Christ which through the eternal spirit offered himselfe without fault to God purge your conscience from dead workes to serue the liuing God Is not this horrible handling of Gods word and blasphemous attributing that to their salt water which is proper and peculiar to the bloud of Christ I could shew in like manner how they haue clipped the coine of Gods word in leauing out words of purpose which serue not their turne but I will omit them only this I say yâ— if they which counterfet clip the kings coine deserue haÌ„ging what do they deserue yâ— counterfeit clip the word of the eternall God king of all kings but corrupt doctrine caÌ„not be maintained without corruptioÌ„ of Gods word But to returne to S. Pauls place he there disswadeth the Christians of Corinth from going to Idolatours feasts by a reason taken from the supper of our Sauiour Christ shewing that as the faithfull by eating that bread which there is broken and drinking that Cup are made partakers of Christ Iesus so they that did eate those feasts ordained to the honoring of Idols were partakers of Idolatrie there committed or rather of the Diuell that was there serued And as the faithfull by being partakers of that bread haue communion togither and bee made one body to wit the mysticall body of Christ so they that receiue those Idol bankets haue communion together and shew themselues to be of one bodie videl of the Diuil Now as there needed no transubstantiation of the one no more there doth for the other Also this bread which Saint Paul calleth the coÌ„munion of the body of Christ is broken yet I trust they wil not say that Christs body is broken although Pope Nicholas De consecra distinct 2. Eâ—o Berenga caused that excellent man Berengarius so to confesse But of the grosse and absurd doctrine of transubstantiation I will speake no more at this present You say moreouer that wee deny the communion of the Chuch militant and triumphant by exclaming against inuocation of Saintes by which holie exercise those blessed Saints in Heauen and wee in earth communicate wee by praier glorifying them and they by meditation I thinke it should bee mediation obtayning our requests Herevnto I answere first that this inuocation of Saints is vnlawfull and cannot bee prooued by the holie Scriptures And this offer I do make you that if you can bring one plaine place out of all the holy scriptures wherein it was euer commaunded or of any faithfull man or woman vsed I will yeeld vnto you not onely in this but also in matters of Religion You quote in your margent Genes 48. 16. and Apoca. 1. 4. which make asmuch for proouing inuocation of Saintes as Tityre tu patule doth The words of the place of Genesis be these The Angell which hath deliuered mee from all euill blesse the children and let my name bee called or named vpon them and the name of my fathers Abraham Isaac that they may grow as fish into a multitude in the midst of the earth Out of this place the Papists take two arguments to proue praier to Angels and to Saints The first out of these words The Angell which hath deliuered me c. The other out of those let my name be called vpon them c. But yet let the reader note this that of the Papists some doe finde
it most euidently appeareth that blessing and thankesgiuing is all one thing And yet this is more manifest For whereas Saint Matthew and Saint Marke say as is before declared that our Sauiour when hee tooke bread blessed Saint Luke Luke â—2 19. 1 Cor. 10 24. â— Cor. 14. 16. and Saint Paul say hee gaue thankes Hereunto also pertaineth that plaine place of Saint Paul When thâ—â— blessest in the spiâ—it how shall hee that occupieth the place of the vnlearned say Amen to thy giuing of thankes seeing hee knoweth not what thou sayest Who is so blinde and so ignorant that heere seeth not blessing and thankesgiuing to be all one thing And therefore againe I say that by blessing is not here meant a secret whispering of fiue words to the conuerting of the substance of bread and wine into Christs body and blood as Priests foolishly vse and falsly teach but a thankesgiuing to GOD for so louing vs that hee hath giuen his onely begotten Iohn 3. 26. Sonne for vs that as many as beleeue in him shall not perish but haue euerlasting life For the which cause this Sacrament is of the ancient fathers called Eucharistia that is to say thankesgiuing As touching the breaking of bread which mâ—y resemble to vs the breaking of Christs body vpon the Crosse wee doe follow our Sauiour Christ therein and doe breake it when we distribâ—â—e it vnto the people the which the Papistes doe not but thrust in a whole vnbroken wafer into their mouthes Indeed I know that the Priest himselfe doth in his Masse breake his hoste into three parts One to signifie the Saints in heauen another the faithfull vpon the earth the third the soules in Purgatory But this deep diuâ—nity they haue found vpon the back side of the Bible But because this Gentlewoman or author of this scrole vrgeth eagerly the breaking of bread I would faine know what the Priest doth breake when he breaketh his Hosâ—e as they call it into three parts First hee breaketh not by their doctrine the substance of bread for they say there is none remaining to say that they breake Christs body wre blasphemy although it pleased that holy Pope Nicholas with his Councell to prescribe that godly and learned man Berengarius in his De consecra dist 2 â—go Berengariuâ— recantation to affirme the body of Christ Manibus Sacerdotum tractari frangi fidelium denâ—â—bus atterâ— i. To be handled with the Priests hands to be broken and torne with the teeth of the faithfull And to say they breake accidents without a substance were folly or rather madnesse These things before being considered let the indifferent reader vprightly consider how truely this Catholike Gentlewoman saith that we obserue none of these Now it followeth in the sayd paper The truth of the Catholike religion and of euery part thereof is proued euidently by the testimony and consent of all writers in all ages since Christ and his Apostles As for example the Real presence of Christ in the Sacrament the Sacrifice of the masse Purgatorie Prayer for the dead Prayers to Saints the vse of Images the signe of the Crosse Pilgrimage to holy Places and the rest now in controuersie Answere HEere bee things as boldly affirmed as they bee barely proued or rather cleane omitted and therefore they might without further proofe as well bee denied of mee as they bee affirmed of them And although I minde not long to stand vpon these particular poynts yet I will not let them goe so nakedly as they do but will somewhat touch them But heere let the Christian reader consider and marke that whereas this Catholike Gentlewoman saith that the truth of their Catholike religion and euery part thereof is prooued euidently by the testimonies of all writers in all ages since Christ and his Apostles they seeme to exclude from this proofe the Law and the Prophets the Gospell of our Sauiour Christ and the writings of the Apostles contained in the canonicall Scriptures For if they had meant otherwise they would haue sayd that the truth of the Catholike religion and euery part thereof is proued euidently by the testimony of the holy Scriptures and of all writers in all ages since Christ and his Apostles Therefore if their meaning bee as their words seeme to import to exclude from this proofe the canonicall Scriptures then they exclude the onely true triall of Christian religion for if the holy Scriptures Caâ—s 8. quest Nec suffâ— â—erâ— bee the onely rule of our faith and life as Beda saith in these words before alledged Nobis sacris literis vnica est credendi pariter viuendi regula praescripta i. The onely rule both of faith and life is prescribed vnto vs in the holy Scriptures then in the proofe of Christian religion we ought not to exclude them but chiefely yea onely to admit them And if Saint Aug. de natu â— grat cap. 60. Augustine doe truely say that wee ought without refusâ—ll to giue our consent onely to the Canonicall Scriptures then surely wee ought to trie and examine all matters by them Therefore I may say vnto you with the same Saint Augustine Auferantur ergo De vâ—itat Eccle cap. 2. c. Let these things bee taken away which wee recite and bring one against another not out of the holy Canonicall bookes but from else where And so let vs trie these points of your Catholike Religion by the holy Canonicall Scriptures the testimony whereof is sufficient and all other testimonies without the same bee of no force so saith the same Saint Agustine Qui diuina testimonia non sequuntur c. Arg. Epist 50. i. They that follow not the diuine testimonies haue lost the waight of mans testimonie Therefore I conclude this point with the same Saint Augustine Non audiâ—mus c. i. Let vs not heare This say I This sayest thou but Aug. de vnitat Eccles cap. 3. let vs heare This saith the Lord. There bee the Lords books whose authority we both consent vnto we both beleeue and wee both obey there let vs seeâ—ke the Church there let vs discusse our cause Bring then plaine proofes out of the holy Canonicall Scriptures for those your catholike points of Religion and I will yeeld And without them whatsoeuer testimonies you bring else where you shall nothing preuaile Well saith Saint Ierome Omne quod loquimur debemus affirmare Hier. in Psalm 98. de Scripturis sacris i. Whatsoeuer wee speake wee ought to affirme or proue it out of the holy Scriptures Idem ad Titum And againe Sine authoritate Scripturarum garrulitas non habet fidem i. Without the authority of the Scriptures pratling hath no credit Now to come to your particular points As touching your Real presence of Christ in the Sacrament if you meane thereby not a Real presence of Christ to the faith of the godly and worthy receiuer whereby wee affirme and beleeue that hee doth
heresie to whom you seeke to liken vs first I answere generally that neither whatsoeuer an heretike hath holden is to be counted heresie for there hath beene no heretike but he hath held some truth nor whatsoeuer a Godly father of the church hath maintained is to be esteemed for truth and verity for it is not vnknowne that the ancient Godly fathers had their infirmities and were subiect to some errors The which although by particuler examples might be declared yet at this present I will spare them Therefore a doctrine is not simply either to be reiected because an Heritike held it nor to bee imbraced because a Godly father maintained it But if it be agreeable to the word of God it is to be receiued if it dissent from it though an Angell from heauen deliuer it wee are to refuse it But Epiph heress 75. Augu. de her cap. 53. perticulerly to come to those persons here named I doe confesse that Aerius was an Heretike in maintayning the horrible heresie of Arius wherewith Epiphanius and Augustine do charge him But whereas they did obiect vnto him the denying of praier for the dead first I say that they doe not conuince and confute him by the scriptures And therefore let this Gentlewoman or some of her fauorers performe that which they haue ommitted and plainely proue this doctrine of praying for the dead by the holie canonicall scriptures and then wee will grant the deniall of it to be an herisie and Aerius for the same to haue beene an Heritike Secondly I say that that praier for the dead which Epiphanius and Augustine do meane neither doth prooue purgatorie nor is the same which the Papists doe Heres 75. now vse Epiphanius rendring a reason of their praiets for the dead doth not say that they praied for them that they might haue remission of such sinnes as were not here forgiuen them nor to make satisfaction for their sinnes and to release them out of the paines of purgatory for the Greeke Church whereof Epiphanius was neuer to this daie beleeued purgatorie but hee giueth this reason thereof that they which bee aliue should thinke and hope that they which bee departed 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Conses lib. de cap. 12 c. hence do liue and are not perished but bee and liue with God but they that bee and liue with God be in heauen and not in purgatory So Saint Augustine praied for his mother and yet beleeued that shee was in heauen so Saint Ambrose praied for Theodosius the Emperor and yet assured himselfe of his saluation For these be his words of him Absolutus certamime fruitur nunc Theodosius luce perpetua c. Theodosius beeing now freed from fight enioyeth eternall light continuall tranquility and glory in assemblie of the Saints Then Theodosius was not in purgatory The ancient Church also praied for the Virgine Lituâ—g Christ Mary for the Patriarkes Prophets Apostles and Martirs whom I hope this Catholike gentlewoman will not beleeue to haue beene in purgatory And therefore that kinde of praier for the dead which in the ancient Church was vsed was rather a commemoration of them and thanksgiuing for them then a petition to deliuer them from the fained fire of purgatory and so prooueth neither pick purse purgatorie nor that popish praier for the dead which is now vsed and maintained And thus much touching Aerius You also say that you haue beene told that Vigilantius was aboue a thousand yeares past condemned for an Hetike for denying praier vnto Saints But take heede you bee not ouer oredulous lightly to beleeue whatsoeuer a prating Priest or iugling Iesuite doth tell you lest you be deceiued as Eua was You should haue demanded how and where it doth appeare that Vigilantius was condemned for an Heritike for denying praier vnto Saintes Neither Epiphanius nor Augustine in their bookes of heresies doe condemne him or make mention of him Indeede Saint Hierome did write a bitter booke against him which I haue twise read ouer Yet cannot I perceiue that hee chargeth him with denying praier vnto Saintes neither doth Hierome make any defence thereof but seemeth rather to maintaine the contrary Affirming in these word that Martires are not to be worshipped Quis O insanum Hier. Contra. Vilgilani caput Mâ—rtires aliquando adorauit 1. For who oh thou foolish head at any time hath worshipped Mâ—rtires Indeede I confesse that Vigilantius denied that the Saints in heauen praied for vs one earth the which Saint Hierome aloweth But it is one thing for the Saints in heauen to pray for vs and another for vs to pray vnto them Though the former could bee prooued as by the holy scriptures it cannot yet the other is not there vpon to be inferred or graunted Lastly I say that if Vigilantius whom many Bishoppes of his time did fauour did deny praier to Saints yet vntill you haue effectually both confuted my reasons afore set downe and proued your doctrine by the scriptures wee will neither condemne it for Heresie nor count him therefore an Heretike As touching the Nouatian heretikes who denied repentance to them that after baptisme did fall wee abhorre their heresie and wish that the papists were as free from the poyson of them as we be The Nouatians gloried in their merites and so doe the Papists The Nouatians condemned second marriages and so doe Papistes in some in that one may not bee a priest that hath beene twise married The Nouatians re-baptised those that after Baptisme did fall and publikely offend and so doe papists in corners baptise such as haue beene baptized in our Churches which is an error condemned aboue a thousand yeares agoe You would haue vs to bee like Eustathius in denying pilgrimages to holy places But it will appeare that wee bee as vnlike as the papists bee like vnto him and in sundrie points doe ioyne hand in hand with him Sozomenus writeth of him that he was Monasticae Conuersationis Lib. 3 cap. 14. author 1. An author of Monastical life that is of Monkery And both there in an Epistle or preface before the CouÌ„sel called Gangrense in the which Eustathius and his doings Tom. 1. cons were condemned hee is charged with these things First that he had caused wiues to leaue their husbands and professe chastity wherevpon husbands and wiues sometimes fell into whoredome Secondly that dispising common vsuall garments he tooke new and strange habits Thirdly he caused seruants vnder a pretence of religion to forsake their Maisters and children their parents And women vppon the same pretence to sheare and cut of their haire Lastly that Priestes which were married were to bee despised and the Sacraments which they ministred were not to be touched Against this last error the fore-said Councell thus decreed Si quis cernit presbiterum coniugatum c. i. If Concil Gang. cap. 4. Tom. 1. Consil any make difference of a Priest that is married as though by
vnitate ecclesie Adulterari non potest sponsa Christi incorrupta est puaica vnam domum nouit vnius cubiculi sanctitatem casto pudore custodit Haec nos Deo seruat haec filios regno quos generauit assignat The spouse cannot bee defiled shee is vncorrupt and chast shee knoweth one house and keepeth with chast shamefastnesse the holinesse of one chamber she keepeth vs to God she assigneth the children whome shee hath borne vnto this kingdome Saint Hierome saith Ipsa Hieron in Iob cap. 28. ecclesiae quae est Sanctorum omnium congregatio pro aeterna sibi in Domino stabilitate columna fundamentum dicitur veritatis The Church which is the congregation of all Saints by reason of her eternall stedfastnes in God is called Chrysost in Ps Hom. 114. the pillar and ground of truth Chrysostome saith Ecclesia est tabernaculum à Deo fixum non ab homine ab vno lcco in alium fugit sed non à pietate ad impietatem fugit The Church is the tabernacle which God hath pight and not man shee flieth from one place to another but she neuer flieth from Ambros in Ephes cap. 1 Godlines to impietie and wickednes Ambrose Apostolus omnem ecclesiam dicens summatim totum comprehendit quod in coelo est in terra The Apostle meaning all the Church briefly comprehendeth the whole which is both in heauen Bern. in Cant. serm 78. Clem Alexand. Strom. lib. 7. pag. 35. Bedain Cant. 6. and in earth Ternaâ—d saith Electi Dei sunt ecclesia Dei The elect of God be the Church of GOD. So saith Clemens Alexandrinus Non nunc locum sed electorum congregationem appello ecclesiam I call not now the place the Church but the congregation of the elect So saith Beda vna est columba perfecta mea vna est inquit catholica elâ—ctorum omnium multitudo peromnia et mundi Loca et tempora seculorum deo patri subiecta 1. my perfect doue is one hee saith that there is one Catholike multitude of all the elect by all both places of the world and ages of times subiect to God the father Yea Friar Lyra saith Lyra in Mat. 16. Ex quo patet quod ecclesia non consistat in hominibus ratione potestatis vell dignitatis ecclesiasticae vel secularis quia multi principaes summi pontifices alii inferiores inuenti sunt apostatasse à fide propter quod ecclesia consistit in illis personis in quibus est notitia vera et confessio fidei et veritatis Whereby it appeareth that the Church consisteth not in men in respect of their ecclesiasticall or secular power or dignitie for many Princes and Popes and others of lower Popes Apostates degree haue bene found to haue bene Apostates and to haue fallen away from the faith Wherefore the Church consisteth in those persons in whome is true knowledge and the confession of faith and truth So saith the Fryar Alphonsus de castro Ecclesia ex omnibus fidelibus constat Aduers Hares lib. 1. cap. 5. fol. 11. non solum presentibus verumetiam preteritis et in posterum futuris 1. The Church consisteth of al the faithful not onely them that bee now present but also heretofore haue bene and hereafter shall be This is that holy Catholike Church which wee in the Creed confesse and beleeue euen the whole number of them whom God hath elected and chosen to eternall life whom God hath had in all ages and of all nations Of which Church euery true and faithfull man and woman must beleeue him-selfe to bee a true and liuely member whereof hee may bee assured if hee finde and feele that GOD hath lightened his minde with the knowledge of his truth hath wrought in his heart an vnfained faith to trust in his mercies and to beleeue that his sinnes be forgiuen him for Christes names sake and that God hath sanctified his soule and body to hate sinne and to haue a care and conscience to serue him in true holines righteousnes all the eaies of his life This being our confession and bâ— liefe with what conscience truth can this man say that the Church which the Protestants beleeue hath been interrupted al the ages betwixt the Apostles and Luther and in very deed was neuer seene before Luthers daies or that we imagine the same to bee comprehended within the narrow bounds of England I can say no more but that a false witnes shall Prouerbe 19. 5. not be vnpunished and he that speaketh lyes shall not escape But now lette vs see what this man and his fellowes hold beleeue and call the Catholike Church forsooth the companie of all them that receiue and professe the religion and doctrine of the Church of Rome submit themselues to be ruled and gouerned by the Bishop Pope of Rome They that do not this be Heretikes Schismatikes out of Noahs Arke and out of the Catholike Church And herevpon it followeth that the Christians in Graecia Muscouia Armenia Ethiopia c. where Christianitie hath continued vnto this day and among whom no doubt but some haue been of Gods elect and chosen people yet bee they no Catholikes nor of the Catholike Church nor in the state of saluation and why because they neither haue been nor be subiect to the Pope of Rome For so it is with many words sollemnely defined determined by that holy Pope Bonniface the 8. Subesse Roman opontifici omni humanae creaeturae Extra de maior obedien unaÌ„ sanctam declaramus dicimus definimus pronuntiamus omnino esse de necessitate salutis that is We declare say define and pronounce that it is altogither of necessitie of saluation to be subiect to the Pope of Rome Where the Glosse helpeth out the matter with these wordes Quicquid saluatur est sub Gloss ibidem summo ponitfice Whatsoeuer is saued is vnder the Pope And on the other side All they that professe the religion of Rome and submit them-selues to the Bishop thereof bee Catholikes and of the Catholike Church how prophane wicked or vngodly soeuer they be Pope Iohn the 8. the whore Iohn the 12. or as some reckon him the 13. who was an adulterer and of two Cardinals did cut out the tongue of the one the hand of the other and at dice-play would call vppon the Diuell and made the Pallace of Laterane a stewes of strumpets as Luithprand lib. 6. cap. 7. Luithprandus Ticinensis writeth Syluester the second a coniurer who gaue himselfe to the Diuell to be made Pope Gregorie the 7. a coniurer and monster Bonniface the 7. Platina in Syluest 2. who robbed Saint Peters Church and put out the eyes of Iohn a Cardinal Bonniface the 8. who entred into his Popedome like a foxe raigned like a wolfe and died like a dog Jdem Alexander the sixt Iulius the second and al they whome
the canonicall Scriptures from the which if they bee found to decline and swarue their iudgements are not to be followed But your meaning is that the Pope with his Councell is the supreme vmpire and iudge in matters of controuersie and the infallible interpreter thereof How they haue most falsly interpreted the Scriptures I haue in some part shewed before and that hee who is a partie and whom a great part of Christendome doth accuse to bee Antichrist and guilty of most grieuous crimes as of impietie idolatrie tyrannie ouer the Church sacriledge treason c. should bee iudge in this his owne cause is against all law and reason It is written in your owne Canon lawe Si Vide Brutum Fulmen 16. quâ—st consuctudo in glossa Distinct 40. Si Papa in gloss Papa cum aliquo causam hâ—bet non debit ipse esse iudex i. If the Pope haue matter with any other he ought not himselfe to be iudge And againe Quando Papa est in statu qui plerisque est offendiculo scandalizat EcclesiaÌ„ nec est corrigibilis tunc non potest esse iudex quia videtur malè sentire de fide i. When the Pope is in that state that he is an offence to many and scandalizeth the Church and is incorrigible then he cannot bee iudge because he seemeth to be of an euill faith And euen so not onely we do but also many of his owne fauourers haue iustly accused the Pope to be You vainly and falsly exaggerate controuersies and irreconciliable iarres as you terme them among vs in essentiall points of faith But why doe you not particularly expresse some of those essentiall points of faith Surely because you cannot I confesse there hath bin in our Church some controuersie concerning externall ceremonies and forme of gouernment as there hath beene heretofore betweene good men as betweene Peter and Paul betweene Paul and Barnabas betweene Anicetus Bishop of Rome Galat. 2. and Polycarpus betweene Chrysostome and Epiphanius and many others who all were godly men agreeing in vnity of faith and knowledge of the Sonne of God But you that are so eager in traducing our iarres cannot see your owne manifold and vnreconciliable iarres and controuersies among your selues As betweene your Schoolemen namely your Thomists and Scotists differing in sundrie matters of moment as not onely Erasmus hath declared but also Iohn Bishop of Rochester hath affirmed Also betweene Assert Luth. art 36. pag. 339. your Dominican and Franciscan Friers about the conception of the virgin Mary debated not onely by words but also by blowes which controuersie was neuer yet decided but in the Councell of Basil which the Papists count a schismaticall Councell and in the same was the false doctrine approoued to wit that the Virgin Mary was conceiued without sinne You cannot see your iarres betweene your great Maister of Sentences Peter Lumbard who iustled Saint Paul out of the schooles and your Sorbonist Doctors of Paris which found and condemned 26. errors in him nor the iarres betweene Ambrosius Catharinus Archbishop of Minorien and Dominicus de Soto confessor to Charles the fift concerning assurance of Gods grace predestination originall sinne freewill and induration of a sinner as in their bitter bookes one against another about these matters appeareth nor the iarres betweene the said Catharinus and Cardinall Caietane whome Catharinus chargeth with 200. errors of which he writeth thus Quae vt non solum euidenter falsa meritò culpari possent veruÌ„ etiam vâ— Christianâ— religioni perniciosa c. Which may be worthily reproued not onely as euidently false but also as pernicious to Christian religion I might mention many mo iarres among the Papists and namely betweene the secular Priests and Iesuits as appeareth by their bitter bookes one against another and particularly that of Willam Watson a secular Priest lately published in print against the Iesuits which this cauilling exclamor cannot espy who can see a moate in our eyes but cannot behold great beames in their owne but for shortnes sake I omit them at this present onely the learned may see how that great Rabbi Rob. Bellarmine iarreth with all other his pewfellowes and in very many essentiall points of doctrine dissenteth from them and controuleth them Whereof also Iohannes Pappus hath made a large collection Here in your later edition and addition you make a particular declaration of our iarres in matters of religion but all grounded vpon your owne baâ—e words without any allegation of places and testimonies whereby they should be confirmed and the reader perswaded and satisfied But you thinke your bare assertion will be sufficient for that your fauourers whome you haue with a strong delusion bewitched will take your naked asseuerations for sound probations You say that wee goe about to bleare the peoples braines with I know not what vnity and conformity in matters of faith c. But who haue not onely bleared but also starke blinded the braynes of the people heauen and earth can witnes euen they that haue taken away the key of knowledge haue kept the light of Gods word vnder the busshell of a strange tongue and haue taught ignorance to be the mother of deuotion as before is declared But let vs come to the particular iars which you say are amongst vs. The 1. is the kings supremacy the which you say all sound Puritans in the world deny and defie The which is a most false slander for there is neither Protestant nor such as it pleaseth you to call Puritans so farre-forth as I know and beleeue but as they deny and defie the Popes wicked supremacy which he hath vsurped and wherby he hath tyranized ouer the Church of God and Soueraigne Princes so they doe vnfeynedly confesse and acknowledge the kings Supreme power and authority in his kingdomes and dominions in all causes and ouer al persons both ecclesiasticall and temporall or politicall They all say with Saint Paule that euery soule ought to bee subiect to the higher powers whether they be as Saint Chrisostome saith Apostle or Euangelist or Prophet or whatsoeuer he be for this subiection doth not ouer-throwe God-linesse They all confesse that it belongeth to his royall dignity to see and procure not onely iustice to bee executed and peace mayntained but also that God bee truely and sincerly serued according to his will reuealed in his word And that he ought to suppresse and punish the transgressions not only of the first table of Gods commandements but also of the second in abolishing all Idolatrie superstition and wicked worshippinges and in remouing and punishing those that doe commit them They all confesse that he is next and immediatly vnder God subiect to the censure of none vpon earth If you know any Protestant or Puritaine that teacheth or writeth otherwaies alleage their wordes and produce the places But you say that Caluine whome it pleaseth you to call the Puritanicall Patriarke thought not well of King Henry the eights supremacy I answere
that thou didst neuer see him nor know him yea I nothing doubt but that thou wast scarcely borne wheÌ„ he died And how dost thou know yâ— he was subiect to such filthy sinne where was hee euer accused or conuicted of such a matter In that Cittie adulteries be punished by death and would Sodomie haue bin winked at in the Preacher And if it were not knowne there how doest thou know it But I will not insist any longer in coÌ„futing this shamelesse slaunder For most true it is which Tully saith Nonne vt ignis in aquam coniectus continuo restinguitur Cicero pâ—o Rosâ—â—o Com. refrigeratur sic referuens falsum crimen in purissimam castissimamque vitam collatum statim concidit extinguitur As fire being cast into water is straight waies quenched so a feruent false crime and slaunder being cast into a most pure and chast life such as Caluines was forth with falleth downe and is extinguished And euen so let this 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 i. slanderer Bolsec the Apostata and all other raile and slaunder what they can yet Caluines memorie with God and all good men wil be blessed for euer And this raiser herein sheweth himselfe like not onely to the Arians but also to that ancient enemie to Christianitiâ— Porphyrius who as Eusebius saith going about to reprehend find fault with the Scriptures and Preachers of the Word not being able to reproue their doctrine 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 â—useh Eccles Histor lib. 6. cap. 19. wanting reasons he fell a railing and slaundering the Preachers But to returne to my matter let the reader also with indifferencie consider who bee like to the Donatists Pelalagians Nestorians Eutychians we or the Papâ—sts The Donatists affirmed the Church to haue perished from the rest of the world and to haue remained onely with them in Africa doe not the Papists in like manner affirme only them to be the Church of God which in a part of Europe be vnder the obedience of the Bishop of Rome vnlesse now they will adde the West Indians of whome as the Spaniards haue murthered many millions so peraduenture a few be either perswaded or coacted to professe Poperie and submit themselues to the Pope of Rome But the Christian Churches in Grecia Aethiopia Armenia Muscouia and other countries they acknowledge not for the Church of God because they doe not subiect themselues vnto the Church of Rome we acknowledge al them to be of the Church of God which in all the world hold the truth in the chiefe and sundamentall points of Christian religion The Pelagians held first that the grace of God whereby we be deliuered is giuen according to our merits Secondly that the law of God may be fulfilled of vs. Thirdly that wee haue free-will the Papists herein be so like to them that as they maintaine in effect the same matters so for the defence of them that alleadge the same places of Scriptures now as the Pelagians of old time did as appeareth by the writings of S. Augustine and S. Hierome Theodo lib. 4. Haeret. â—abul against them Nestorius did as Theodoretus writeth of him trouble and intangle the simple and plaine doctrine of Christian faith with Greekish Sophistications How the Papists haue herein ioyned with him and by their curious questions and vaine Sophistications haue troubled and peruerted the pure simple and plaine faith of Christ by their Schoolemen it doth euidently appeare Eutyches confounded the two natures in Christ and the properties peculiar to them So doe the Papists in making the body of Iesus Christ to be at one instant in heauen and earth and infinite places of the earth which is only proper to the Deity This shall suffice to shew that the Papists bee liker to these olde heretikes then wee are whose doctrine we abhorre and be farre further from it then they be Yea I may not onely truly say but can also plainly proue Poperâ—e to be an hotchpotch of old heresies long ago condemned in the Church of God The which as I did once in publike place shew so I may if it be the will At Paules Crosse Anno 1590. of God heareafter more plainly and plentifully proue Now this worthy writer or rather lewd libeller will proue and that by a Syllogisme out of the principles of our religion that S. Paul exhorteth vs to infidelitie This subtile Syllogisme is thus framed Whosoeuer exhorteth vs to doubt of that which we are bound to beleeue by faith exhorteth to infidelitie But S. Paul doth exhort vs to doubt of our saluation which we are bound to beleeue by faith according to the Protestants religion Ergo. S. Paul exhorteth vs to infidelitie As the assumption or second proposition of this sillogisme as it now standeth is false so by a small alteration both it and all the rest may be very true that is by putting out the name of S. Paul and putting Papists in place thereof in this sort Whosoeuer exhoâ—teth vs to doubt of that which we are bound to beleeue by faith exhort vs to infidelity The Papists exhort or at least-wise teach us to doubt of our saluation Ergo the Papist exhort vs to infidelity The first proposition of this sillogisme is affirmed by Sess 6. pag. 29. this writer to be plaine The second is the doctrine of the Papists concluded determined in that Tridentine Conuenticle where it is said that they which be truly iustified cannot without all doubt account them-selâ—es to be iustified And againe that no man can know by certainty of faith which is not subiect to error and falsehood that he hath obtained the grace of God And againe Sâ— quis dixerit omni homini c. If any shall say that it is necessary for euery man to the obtaining â—â—id can 73. of remission of sinnes to beleeue certainly and without doubt of their one infirmity and indisposition that their sins be forgiuen them be he accursed But more plainly and pregnantly doe the Doctors of Louaine lay downe this doctrine of doubting Fides qua quis firmiter In articul aduers Luther artic 9. credit certò statuit per Christum sibi remissa esse peccata seque possessurum vitam aeternam nullum habet in Scripuris testimonium imo eisdem aduersatur The faith whereby a man doth firmely beleeue is certainly assured that his sinnes by Christ bee forgiuen him and that hee shall possesse eternall life hath no testimony in the Scripture yea is contrary vnto them Here-vpon I conclude by this writers owne reason that the Papists in mainteining this doctrine of doubting teach infidelity But whereas these Louainian Doctors say that this doctrine of the certainty of forgiuenes of our sinnes by Christ and of our possession of eternall life is not testified in the Scriptures but contrary to them how false this is I referre it to bee tried by these places here following They that trust in the LORD shall bee as mount Sâ—on
truely receiue Iesus Christ and doth eate his flesh and drinke his blood to the feeding and nourishing of his soule to eternall life but an euacuating of the substance of the bread and wine and the turning and transubstantiating of the same into the very naturall body and bloud of Christ contained vnder the outward accidents of bread and wine concerning this false grosse and carnall doctrine I haue said sufficiently in a printed sermon published twentie yeares past and as yet not confuted wherein I haue shewed that this doctrine is contrary to the holy Scriptures which call it bread after it is consecrated and when it 1 Cor. 10 16. 17. 2. 26. 27. 28. is receiued and that it is contrary to the nature of a Sacrament which must haue a substantiall element or else it can bee no Sacrament that it is contrary to the Articles of faith and holy Scripâ—ures which teach vs that Christ in respect of his humanitie is ascended into heauen and there is to bee sought and not vpon the earth and that this doctrine draweth with it many absurdities as that Christs body is at one moment in heauen and earth and in infinite places of the earth without either quantity or quality of a body and that wicked and vnfaithfull men doe eate the very body and blood of Christ and such other absurdities which are more largely layde downe in my sayd Sermon whereunto I remit the reader where also I haue set downe sundrie testimonies of the ancient godly learned Fathers against this grosse and false doctrine of transubstantiation As touching their Sacrifice of the Masse wherein they falsly faine that they offer vp Iesus Christ for a propitiatory sacrifice for the sinnes of the liuing and of the dead I say that this doctrine hath neither warrant of the word of GOD nor of the ancient godly and learned Fathers but is contrary to them both First no man euer did or can offer vp Iesus Christ for a propitiatorie Sacrifice Iudâ—â— betraved him the Priests accused him Pilate condemned him the Iewes crucified him but none did offer him for a sacrifice for our sinnes but himselfe Who Heb. 9. 14 through the eternall spirit offred himselfe without spot to GOD. So saith Saint Paul that Christ gaue Ephes 5. 2. himselfe for vâ—to bee an offering and a sacrifice of a sweet smelling sauour to God And if a man could offer vp Iesus Christ vnto his Father for a Sacrifice then see what an absurditie would follow that Iesus CHRIST should bee accepted of his heauenly Father for the mans sake that doth offer him for in all Sacrifices the man is not excepted for the sacrifice sake but the Sacrifice for the mans sake that doth offer it As for example Caine and Abel offered either of them a Sacrifice the one of the fruit of his field the other of the increase of his cattell there was no difference before God in the outward sacrifice yet the one was accepted and the other was reiected because the one was a godly and faithfull man that did offer it and the other a wicked Hypocrite and therefore the Apostle saith that by faith Abel offered a greater sacrifice Heb. 2. 4. then Caine did The Sacrifices of Noah Abraham and other faithfull Fathers pleased GOD and it is said that hee smelled a sweet â—auour of rest and this was because they Gen. 8. 21. were godly and faithfull which did offer them Afterward the same Sacrfices offred by the wicked Iewes which were a sinfull nation a people laden with iniquitie the seede of the wicked corrupt children which Isa 1. had forsaken the Lord and prouoked the holy one of Israel to anger whose hands were full of blood 15 were so odious and abominable to GOD that he saith of them What haue I to doe with the multitude 2 of your sacrifices saith the Lord I am full of the burnt offerings of Rammes and the fat of fedde beastes And a little after Bring no more oblations in vaine incense is an obhomination vnto mee Yea GOD saith of those sacrifices in another place Hee that killeth a Bullocke is as if hee slewe a man hee that sacrificeth a sheepe is as if hee cut off a dogges necke hee that offereth an oblation is as if hee had offered Isa 66. 3. swines blood he that remembreth incense is as if he had blessed an idoll c. Why did God thus abhor these sacrifices which he himselfe had commanded to bee offered euen because they were wicked men voide of true faith and repentance which did offer them And to come nearer to the purpose why was the sacrifice of Iesus Christ vpon the Crosse a sweete smelling sacrifice to God to pacifice his wrath to satisfie his iustice and to purchase his mercy vnto vs surely because Iesus Christ the Sonne of God did offer it as before is declared And therefore it must in like manner follow that if a miserable man could offer Iesus Christ for a sacrifice to his Father then Christ should bee accepted for the mans sake the which if it be false and blasphemous then can no man offer vp Iesus Christ for a propitiatory sacrifice to his Father Moreouer this sacrifice of our Sauiour Christ vpon the Heb. 7 27 Crosse for our redemption was but once offered and can neuer bee repeated So saith the Apostle that Christ needed not dayly as those high priests did offer vp sacrifice first for their owne sinnes and then for the people for that did hee once when hee offered vppe himselfe Againe neither by Heb. 9 12 the bloud of Gâ—ates and Calues but by his owne entred hee once into the holie place and obtained eternall redemption Againe not that hee should offer himselfe often as the high priest 9. 25. entered into the holy place euery yeare with other bloud for then must hee often haue suffered since the foundation of the world but now in the end of the world hath he appeared once to put away sinne by the offering of himselfe And as it is 10. 19. appointed to all men once to die and then commeth iudgement So Christ was once offered to take away the sinnes of man c. Againe By the which will wee bee sanctified euen by the offering of the body of Iesus Christ once made Againe but this Vsc 12. man after hee had offered one sacrifice for sinne sitteth for euer at the right hand of God Thus wee see that the holy scripture teacheth vs that our Sauiour Christ once offered himselfe once entred into the holy place with one oblation once made hath sanctified vs and so can neuer bee repeated And if this sacrifice should bee repeated and our Sauiour Christ should daily be offered in the Masse see what absurdities would follow First that the sacrifice of our Sauiour Christ vpon the Crosse were weake imperfect and insufficient to take away sinne for so the Apostle doth reason doth proue
and his Apostles and it derogateth from the purging and cleansing of our sinnes which wee haue in the bloud of Iesus Christ whereof I wil only set downe a few places with one offering hath he made perfect them which are Hâ—â— 10. 14. 1. 3. Heb 9. 14. 1 Iohn 1. 7. sanctified hauing by himselfe purged our sinnes sitteth on the right hand on the Maiestie on high how much more shall the bloud of Christ which through the eternall spirit offered himselfe without spot to God purge your consciences from dead workes to serue the liuing God The bloud of Iesus Christ his Sonne cleanseth vs from all sin If we confesse our sins God is faithful and righteous to forgiue our sins and to cleanse vs Apoc. 1. 5. 7. 14. from all our iniquities Christ hath loued washed vs from our sins in his owne bloud and makes vs Kings and Priestes vnto God c. The Saints wash their long Robes make Ioh. 1. 29. Psal 51. 7. Isa 2. 18. Rom 5. 10. them white in the blood of the Lamb that is Christ Iesus who is the Lamb of God that taketh away the sins of the world Purge me with Isope I shall be cleane wash me I shal be whiter then snow Though your sins were as Crimson they shall be made as white as snow If when we were enemies wee were reconciled to God by the death of his son much more being reconsiled we shall be saued by his life How these and such like places of Scripture will agree with the Popish Purgatory in the which they imagine sinnes to bee punished soules to be purged and Gods iustice to bee satisfied let the Christian Reader consider and so marke what the word of God sheweth to be our true Purgatory euen the bloud of Iesus Christ Saint Paul saith that wee bâ—ing Rom. 5. 1. Apoc. 14. 13. iustified by faith haue peace with God through our Lord Iesus Christ And Saint Iohn saith Blessed are the dead which hereafter die in the Lord. Euen so saith the spirit that they rest from their labors and their workes follow them How the faithfull haue peace with God and rest from their labours and yet be tormented in the terrible paines of Purgatory I would saine vnderstand But of this popish purgatory and praier for the dead which depend on it I will write no more at this present expecting that this Catholike Gentlewoman which can propound such profound and vnanswerable questions will profoundly and pithily proue them by the Scriptures which when shee doth she shal by the grace of God heare further from me As concerning praier to Saints departed out of this life I say and here-vppon doe stand that in all the holy Scriptures there is not one commandement of God that wee should pray vnto them nor one promise made to such prayer nor one example of any Patriarke Prophet Apostle or godly man that euer prayed vnto them And although this may sufficiently satisfie a Christian conscience which ought to bee grounded vppon the word of GGD and thereby directed and may moue it to hate and abhorre this false doctrine which hath no warrant in Gods word yet the more to perswade this Gentlewoman and others of her crew to the truth I will sette downe a few arguments grounded vpon the Scriptures to confute this their doctrine of praying vnto Saints My first reason shal be vpon these words of the Apostle Rom 10. 14. How shall they call on him in whome they haue not beleeued Where-vpon I make this argument we are to pray only to him in whome we beleeue but wee beleeue onely in God therefore we are to pray onely to God and so consequently not vnto Saints The first proposition is the word of Apostle the second if they deny I wil hereafter proue it My second Argument shall bee this They are not to be praied vnto yâ— heare not our praiers but the Saints departed heare not our praiers therefore we are not to pray vnto them The first proposition is euident If they shal deny the second I wil hereafter proue it in the meane time lette them consider these places of Scripture Isa 63 16. 2. Reg. 22. 20 Psal 27. 10. My third Argument is this They are not to bee praied vnto which know not our hearts and know not whether our praiers proceed from our hearts or not but the Saints know not our hearts Ergo we ought not to pray vnto them My last argument shall be this wee are to offer sacrifizes Hosea 14. 2. Hâ—b 13 15. Psal 50. 23. to none but onely God Exod. 22. 20. but our praiers bee sacrifices therefore we are to offer them onely to God and so consequently not vnto Saints When this Gentlewoman and her friends shall directly and plainely answer these reasons and set downe as many or mo grounded vpon the Scriptures to proue their assertion then they heare more from me As touching Images if they can proue them by the Scriptures and by the testimonies of all writers since Christ and his Apostles they shall worke wonders the which vntill they doe I will set downe a few places out of the holy Scriptures and ancient Fathers which I would wish them well and deepely to consider and either to answer them or to yeeld vnto the truth of them I will begin with the commandement of GOD. Thou shalt Isa 20 4 Deut. 5. â— make thee no grauen Image neither any similitude of things that are in heauen aboue neither that are in the earth beneath nor that are in the waters vnder the earth thow shalt not bow downe to them nor worship them For I am the Lord thy GOD c. Take good heed vnto your selues for Deut. 4. 15 you saw no Image in the day that the LORD spake vnto you in the Mount Horeb out of the middest of the fire that you corrupt not your selues make you agrauen Image or representation of aâ—y figure whether it be male or female c. Cursed be the man that shall make any caruen or molten 27. 15. Image which is an abhominatioÌ„ vnto the Lord the worke of the handes of the crafts man and putteth it in a secret place al the people shal answer say Amen To whom theÌ„ Isa 40. 18. wil you likeÌ„ God or what similitude wil you set vp to him the workeman melteth an Image or the Goldsmith beateth it out in gold c. Al they that make an Image are vanity their 44. 9. delectable things shall nothing profit and they are their owne witnesses that they see not nor know not therefore they shal be Hab. 2. 18. confounded who haue made a God or molten Image that is profitable for nothing Read the rest that doth there follow Habacuke saith what profiteth the Image for the maker therof hath made it an Image a teacher of lies though he that made it trust therein when hee maketh dumbe Idols
occasion of his marriage hee ought not to offer and therefore doe abstaine from his offering bee hee accursed Now these things well waied and considered let euen this Catholike Gentlewoman her selfe iudge whether wee or her counterfeyt Catholikes bee likest vnto Eustathius As touching such gadding a Pilgrimage vnto Idols and Images as is vsed in Popery that either such was then vsed or by Eustaâ—bius condemned you shall neuer bee able to proue this is that the Councell in that point decreeth Si quis superbiam c. i. If any through Cap. 20. pride as thinking himselfe perfect doe either accuse the assemblies which are made at the Churches and places of the holy Martirs or also beleeueth that the oblations which there be celebrated are to bee dispised and the memories of Saintes to bee condemned be hee accursed but this is far from Popish pilgrimage That Simon Magus denied free will I cannot finde but Vide Calu. contra Pighium p. 205. Lamb. daneus in August lib. de heres cap. 1. Euseâ—i lib. 2. cap 13. Act. 8. by that which I haue read it may rather be gathered that hee maintained it for it is written of him that he affirmed the soule not to bee defiled with vices but onely the flesh And if the soule be not defiled with vices then hath it freewil But this I finde written and receiued of him yâ— he brought againe the suspition of Images from the which the Christians seemed to haue bene deliuered and that he would sell the giuing of the holy Ghost and his graces giftes for money Wherein whether the Pope in selling pardons for sinne and making of Saiâ—â—es for money bee liker to him or Simon Peter lette wise men consider Lastly you would faine match vs with Iouinian who you saie affirmed the marriage of Priestes but herein you mistake the matter for Iouinians opinion was not directly concerning the marriage of Priestes or Ministers but that he made marriage equall vnto virginitie and virginitie of no great worthines or as some terme it merit more then matrimony Saint Hierome writing against Iouinian acknowledgeth Lib. 1. contra Iouini the marriage of Priests Si autem Samuell c. i If Samuell beeing nourished in the Tabernacle married a wife is this to the preiudice of virginitie as though euen now also many Priests were not married And the Apostle describeth 1. Sozom lib. 1. cap 2. 2. Niceph. lib. 2. cap. 19. 3 Greg. Naziâ— in oration funeb de patre et â—antu lib. 1. fastor 5. Euseb lib. 6. Cap. 42. 6. Eusâ—b lib. 8. cap. 9. 7. Euseb lib. 5. cap. 25. â—t tom Conc. p. 8. Polidor Virgil cap 9. de Iuuent erum lib. 5. cap. 9. Fabian part 7. sol 151. Math. Parrish 1. in Galiel Conquest 9. Heb 13. a Bishop to bee the husband of one wife hauing children with all chastitie c. Eliguntur mariti in sacerdotium non nego c. i. That married men bee chosen to be Priestes I doe not deny c. Therefore if Iouinians opinion had beene about the marriage of Ecclesiasticall persons Saint Hierome who writ bitterly against him had yeelded the cause vnto him But if Iouinian were an Heretike for affirming Priestes marriage then were the Priests of the old law Heretikes So were sundry godly Bishops in Christs Church long after his ascention as first Spiridion second Gregorius Nisines third Gregory NazianzeÌ„s father fourth Prosper Aquitanicus fifth Cheremon sixth Phileas seauenth Policrates c. Which were married Bishoppes Yea it may bee proued that in England and other countries Priestes were married a thousand and moe yeares after Christ But to conclude this matter lette the Papistes barke as much as they list against the marriage of Ecclesiastical persons we say with the Apostle Marriage is honourable among all and the bed vndefiled but whoremongers adulterers God wil iudge theÌ„ of with sort most popish priests haue bin for in the Popes decree a Q. is asked whither a Priest for fornication is to bee depriued the glose answereth it seemeth not His reason is quia pauci sine illovitio Dâ—stinct â— 1. inueniuntur First because few are found voyd of that vice Now whereas this Catholike Gentlewoman saith shee heard that these aforenamed where a thousand yeares agoe condemned for such heresies which are now as she saith preached for Gods word Although I haue sufficiently I suppose answered the same yet will I shew her what â— haue heard of other heretiques condemned a thousand yeares agoe and what doctrine they haue maintained I haue heard beside Simon Magus before named of Irenâ—us lib. 1. cap. 14. â—pâ—phan heres 27. certaine Heretikes called Gnostici Caâ—pocratitae which had Images painted in gold and siluer and other matter which they said were the Images of Iesus and were made vnder Pontius Pilate when Christ was among men which they decked with Gyrlands and did sette thâ—m forth c. I haue heard beside that yâ— Monster Marcion was charged Epiphan heres 42. Tertul. lib. 2. Contrâ—a Marcion besides other matters with these three things First that he permitted women to baptize Secondly that hee thought fish a more holy meat then flesh and thirdly that hee denied the truth of Christs body and thought that it was a Phantasma or Ghost such a body as the Romish Catholikes seeme to attribute vnto him which they say is in heauen earth and infinite places of the earth at one instant and is in the sacrament without any quallitie or quantitie of a body without length breadth or thickenes forme or figure c I haue heard of an Heretike called Montanus charged Euseb ex Apolonio Ecclesi Hist lib. 5. cap. 18. Tertul. aduers Praxâ—am et Rhenan ibid. aboue a thousand yeares past with these things First that he taught to dissolue marriages Secondly that hee prescribed lawes of fasting And thirdly that vnder precence of oblations hee craftily deuised a getting of gifts And that hee brought in sundry vnwritten traditions wherof it is thought some haue continued in the Church vntill this time and the rather for that in Tertullian and Beatus Rhenanus a Papist do affirme I haue heard of certaine Angu Epist 74 Heritikes of which some were called Tatianâ— some Eucratitae some Originiani some Manicheâ— of those some generally condemned marriage some prohibited it onely to their Priests as namely the Maniches And as touching the other I haue heard that some write thus of Epiphan heres 47. them â—actant pudicitiam fallaciter omnia faâ—ientes c. i. They bragge of continency doing all things deceitfully for both they be found among women and they euery where deceiue women they take iournies with women they liue togither with them they admit the seruices of them so that they bee farre from the truth hauing a shew of Godlinesse but haue denied the power thereof c. I haue heard of certaine Heretikes called Pelagians which were charged with three opinions
tom 2 and not able to proceed further in grace and that they neede neither praier nor fast nor bee subiect to law and carnall act no sinne hauing a desire thereto with other such like opinions Concilium viennense yet Martirs Iewell defence Apol. part 1. cap. 7. Diuision 3. speaking of the Albingenses saith of them we haue no skill they are none of ours But Maister Buckley doth say and hold that they were the true Church of God with much more pag. vt supra Therefore what godlines or goodnes maister Buckley hath red of them more then Iewell or Bishop Couper faine would I know vale in Christo I meane of the Albigenses and the rest Also D. Willet in his Trast pag. 113. of the latter editiâ—n calleth them heretikes I meane Begardy and D. Fulke answere to the Remis Rom. cap. 11. Sect. 3. commâ—ndeth the Waldenses c. Hitherto the words of the said paper which I receiued proceeding as it may seeme from some morrow masse-priest of more skill in his Portuise and masse-booke and better studied in Eliots and Coupers Dictonary then in other good authors The drift and scope thereof seemeth to be to shew a difference contradiction betwixt me and those reuerend and learned Bishops D. Couper and â—ewel for that I doe commend the Albigenses for faithfull and Godly men and holy Martiers and they in the opinion of this ignorant papist do seeme to mislike them I will first render â— reason of my good opinion conceiued of them and then I will indeuour to wipe away that fancie of contradiction which this man imagineth to bee be-twixt me and the forenamed reuerend and learned fathers I am mooued to thinke reuerently of that people called Albingenses and to commend them as witnesses of Gods truth First because the Pope of Rome whom wee Rad. Gualt Hom 5. de Antichri Lamb. Danaeus de Anticâ—ri Rob Abbot demonst de Antichristo D. Downam of Antichrist Gabr. Powel de Antichri Aduers haeres lib. 2. de commu here 's 7 Rob. Gaguin Hâ—sto lâ—b 6 Fascicul Temp fol. 77. Lib. 5. p. 458 charge to be the great Artichrist prophecied of by Saint Paule 2. Thess 2. and Saint Iohn in the Apocaplips of which imputation his followers and fauourers the Iebusites neither haue nor can discharge him did so cruellie persecute them and raise such bloudy warre against them Secondly for that it is certaine that these Albingenses so called of the countrie Albingens nere Tholosa where they inhabited as the Spanish frier Alphonsus de Castro writeth of them were the same which otherwise and els where were called Waldenses and Pauperes de Lugduno who were dispersed into sundrie countries as diuers Popish writers do confesse and hold the same doctrines that they did This is also confessed by that reuerend and learned maÌ„ Iacobus Aug. Thuanus praesident of the parliament of Paris in the first part of his excellent history And what their doctrines were none doth more effectually shew then doth Pope Pius the second in his History Aenaeas Siluy Histor Bohem. cap. 35. p. 103. of Bohemia attributing in these words these opinions vnto them That the Bishoppe of Rome is equall to other Bishops and Vide quoque Albert Krantii vandalia lib. 10. cap. 2. that there is no difference among Priests that not dignity but good life maketh a prasbiter or Priest the better that soules as soone as they depart out of the bodies be forthwith either cast into perpetuall paine or obtaine eternall ioy That no purgatory can be found that it is a vaine thing to pray for the dead and an inuention of couetous Priestes That the images of God and Saintes are to bee destroyed That the blessinge of water and palmes is to be derided That the orders of begging Freers were inuented by the diuell that Priests ought to be poore and be content onely with almes That the preaching of the word of God ought freely to be open to all That no capitall on great sinne ought to bee suffered for the auoyding of a greater euill That he which is guilty of deadly sin ought not to enioy either secullar or Ecclesiasticall dignity nor to be obeied That confirmation with oile extreame Vnction are not to be counted amongst the Sacraments of the Church That auricular confession is friuolous and that it is sufficient for men to confesse their sinnes vnto God in their chamber That baptisme is to be vsed in water without mixture of hollowed oile That the vse of Church-yardes was vaine and brought in for couetousnee sake and that it maketh noe matter with what earth mens bodies be couered That the world is the temple of God who is in al places that doe they restraine his maiesty which build Churches Monasteries and oratories as though his diuine goodnes and mercy were to be found sooner in them then in other places That the robes of Priests ornamentes of Altars palles Corporasses Chalices Patens and other vessels are of no valew That a Priest may in any place and at all times consecrat the holy body of Christ and minister it to them that doe require it that it is sufficient for him only to vse the sacrameÌ„tal words That the praiers of Saints raigning with Christ in heauen are in vaine prayed for and cannot helpe vs. That the time is euill spent in singing or saying Canonicall seruice or praiers That men ought to cease from their labours vpon no day but vpon that which is now called the Lords day and that the feastes of Saintes are to be reiected That there is no merit or goodnesse in the fastes which be appointed by the Church These be the doctrines which the Pope imputeth to the Waldenses Now when any of you shall effectually proue by the word of GOD the most and chiefe of these doctrines for some seeme to bee more hardly set downe by this their aduersary then they did meane them to be errours and heresies then I will confesse my selfe to haue beene deceiued and both the Waldenses and Albingenses to haue beene iustly reputed for heretikes And that the Albingenses ioyned with the Waldenses in these doctrines although it bee the harder to shew because it appeareth that the Pope and his followers were very carefull to suppresse their doctrines and to keepe them from the knowledge of the people as Robert Gaguine In Philip August Lib. 6. fol. â—04 the French historiographer sheweth in that no writer before his time which hee did know had committed them to writing for whereas saith he they call them haeretikes and doe declare that for that offence they were destroyed yet they haue lette passe to shew the kinde of their haeresie By this their polliticke concealing of their doctrines it seemeth that they did to neerely touch the Popes triple Crowne and too much did shake the cuppe of his abhominations where-with hee hath made Kinges and nations drunken Notwithstanding by some writers it appeareth what their doctrines