and although the true Church doth geue a notable testimonie thereunto yet doth not our faith depend vpon their witnesse testimonie or allowance Secondly the true visible Church is certainly knowen by the preaching of the word and the right vse of the Sacramēts so that we doubt not but there is the true Church where we finde these markes neither is it needfull to know the estate of euery particular member thereof for so long as all actions in the Church are directed and ordered by the rule of Gods word we neede not to doubt to commit our selues to that Church howsoeuer otherwise men do stand before God and yet so much as is necessarie the faithfull may be iudged knowen by their fruites Thirdly though we admit that wicked men are mēbers yet the vncertainty remaineth still for they them selues hold that neither men not Baptised or persons excommunicate or heretikes can be of the Church but many may liue in the Church whom we know not to be Baptised which may be ipso facto by the deed doing excommunicate without publike sentence and heretikes also wherefore euen amongest themselues they are vncertaine who are members of the Church The Protestantes WE hold that the Catholike Church consisteth onely of the predestinate and comprehendeth the vniuersall number of all those which shal be saued not onely those now liuing on earth but all that haue bene since the beginning of the world of this Church S. Paule was euen being a persecuter for he was neuer a member of the deuill nor reprobate as Iohn Husse saith articul 2. Of this Church Iudas the traytor neuer was though he were reputed for a Disciple of Christ for a while Huss articul 7. Therefore the wicked and reprobate though they liue in the outward assembly of Christians are no more the true members of Christ then the tares in the field may be counted wheat or good corne 1 The true members of Christ are also his sheepe the wicked are not the sheepe of Christ Ergo neither his members The sheepe of Christ heare his voyce they do not heare his voyce Ergo if they shall aunswere that hypocrites and wicked men do heare Christes voyce so long as they continue in the outward profession of Christians we thus improue it Christes sheepe do folow him in life and example Iohn 15.4 but so doe not they If it shal be yet aunswered that they may also a while walke in Christes steps this is not enough for all Christes shal be saued ver 9. wherfore the Gospell vnderstandeth such folowers as continue to the end 2 Christ is the head of his Church and all the partes thereof but he is not the head of the wicked reprobate Ergo. The Iesuite graunteth that he is the head euen of those partes that shall perish Bellarmin cap. 7. We thus answere Christ is the head onely of those for whom he gaue him selfe Ephe. 5.23.25 but he gaue not him selfe for the wicked Ergo. If this be denied we thus proceede Christ dyed onely for those whom he sanctifieth and cleanseth to make them a glorious Church without spot and wrincle Ephe. 5.26.27 But this can not agree any wise to the wicked Ergo. 3 The Church of God is the whole familie of the children of God in heauen and earth Ephe. 3.15 they both make but one Church the wicked are not of this familie for who would say that the Saintes in heauen and wicked and reprobate men vpon the earth are felow seruaunts and of one houshold Ergo they are not of the Catholike Church 4 Of all other that is a most euident place 1. Iohn 2.19 they went out of vs but were not of vs Ergo heretikes and reprobates are not of the church Bellarmine aunswereth though they were not of vs that is of the Church animis voluntate in soule and minde and purpose of hart yet they were of vs externa professione in externall profession Thus they are not ashamed such is there great boldnesse to contradict the scriptures for the Apostle saith non erāt ex nobis they were not of vs they say yes forsoth after a sort erāt ex nobis they were of vs the Apostle saith nay they say yea he saith indeed exierunt ex nobis they went out of vs which soundeth nothing like as erant ex nobis they were of vs as the Iesuite subtillie would conclude 5 Let Augustine speake for vs both Illa columba vnica pudica casta sponsa sine macula ruga non intelligitur nisi in bonis iustis sanctis That louely doue saith he the chast vndefiled and vnspotted spouse that is the Church of God is onely vnderstood of those that are righteous faithfull holy Ergo the wicked are not of the Church which is the spouse of Christ. THE SECOND PART OF THE QVESTION whether the Catholike Church be inuisible The Papistes THey do affirme that the Catholike Church is and hath bene alwayes visible error 15 not so visible because it might be seene but that it hath bene alwayes actually visible not seene onely vnto the mēbers of the church but notoriously knowē to the whole world Rhemens annot in Math. cap. 5. Sect. 3. Neither do they meane any particular Church so to haue bene visible but the vniuersall catholike church which they define to be a visible cōgregatiō of all faithfull men Canisius cap. de fide Symbol articul 18. Bellarmin lib. 3. de Eccles. cap. 12. ration 7. 1 The foundation of the Church is visible therefore the Church is visible the proportion they proue thus for whether we affirme Christ or Peter to be the foundatiō of the Church both of them are now visible in him which is the Vicare of Christ and Peters successor We answere First we vtterly denie either Peter to be the foundation of the Church or els the Pope to be his lawfull successor for Peter is no more the foundation of the Church then all the Prophetes and Apostles Ephe. 2.20 whose doctrine is the foundation not their persons And as for the Pope we care not so much for outward successiō in place which notwithstanding they can not proue to haue bene perpetuall without interruption as we do require a succession of faith and doctrine Secondly we affirme that Christ is the foundation but not the visible beholding of Christ with the carnall eyes but beleeuing in his name for when Peter had vttered that notable confession of Christ he said that flesh and bloud had not reuealed it but his father in heauen but if the beholding of Christ had geuen Peter a sight of the foundation thē flesh had reuealed it vnto him his carnall eyes had brought him to Christ. Thirdly we may much better returne this argument vpon them selues that because the foundation of the Church which is faith in Christ is inuisible therefore the Church is inuisible 2 They heape vp many places of Scriptures but to small purpose as Math. 18. tell the
the Iewish ceremonies this is great presumption to thinke it is lawfull for the Church to doe whatsoeuer Christ and his Apostles did Fulk 1. Tim. 4. sect 18. The Protestants ALthough there be great moderation to bee vsed in the ceremonies of the Church and there is also some limitation for them yet hath the Church greater libertie in the rites and ceremonies which are appoynted for order and comelinesse sake then in the doctrine of fayth and religion The doctrine of saluation is alwayes the same and cannot be changed and toucheth the conscience But rites and ceremonies are externall and commanded for order sake and neither are they vniuersall the same in euery Church nor perpetuall but are changed according to times and as there is occasion Againe the precepts of Christianitie are either directly expressed or necessarilie concluded out of the scriptures but externall rites and ceremonies are not particularlie declared in the word there are onely certaine generall rules set downe according to the which all ceremonies brought into the Church are to bee examined as for the Sacraments of the Church they cannot bee altered hauing a perpetuall commandement from Christ Therefore the Church cannot appoynt what how many ceremonies soeuer she shall thinke good but according to these foure rules and conditions which followe here in order 1 All things ought to bee done to the glorie of God euen in ciuill actions much more in things appertayning to the seruice of God 1. Cor. 10.31 Our aduersaries offend agaynst this rule applying and annexing remission of sinnes to their owne inuentions and superstitious ceremonies as vnto penance and extreame vnction which they also make Sacraments for this is greatly derogatorie to Christs institution who hath only appoynted the hearing of his word and vse of the Sacraments for the begetting and encreasing of faith and by this faith only is the death of Christ applied vnto vs for the remission of sinnes 2 All things ought to be done orderly and decently 1. Cor. 14.40 Wherefore al ridiculous light vnprofitable ceremonies are to be abolished such our aduersaries haue many as knocking kneeling creeping to the Crosse lighting candles at noone day turning ouer of beades and many phantasticall gestures they haue in their idolatrous Masse as turning returning looking to the East to the West crossing lifting quaffing and shewing the emptie cup with many such toyes 3 All things ought to bee done without offence 1. Corinth 10.32 But to whom that hath but a little feeling of religion is not the abhominable sacrifice of the Masse offensiue What good conscience doth it not grieue that the Priest should create his maker as they say should offer vp the bodie of Christ in sacrifice and be an intercessor as it were for his mediatour desiring God to accept the sacrifice of his sonnes bodie As also to make it a propitiatorie sacrifice for the quicke and the dead But of these matters we shall haue fitter occasion to entreate afterward when we come to the seuerall controuersies 4 All things ought to bee done to edifying 1. Corinth 14. vers 12. But the popish ceremonies are so farre from edifying that by reason of their infinite rabble and number they are a clogge vnto Christians and more burdensome then were the obseruations of the Iewes They haue hallowed fire water bread ashes oyle waxe flowers braunches clay spittle salt incense balme chalices paxes pixes altars corporals superaltars altarclothes rings swords and an infinite companie besides doe these tend thinke you to the edification of the minde Nay they doe cleane destroy and extinguish all spirituall and internall motions drawing the heart from the spiritual worship of God to externall beggerlie and ragged reliques and ceremonies Fulk 1. Timoth. 4. sect 1. Beza lib. confess de eccles articul 18.19.20 The fift question whether the Church of Rome be the true Church THis question hath two parts First whether the Romane Church be the Catholike Church or not Secondly whether the Church of Rome be a true visible Church THE FIRST PART WHETHER THE ROMANE Church be the Catholike Church The Papists BEllarmine defining the Church maketh this one part of the definition to be error 27 subiect vnto the Bishop of Romes iurisdiction Lib. 3. de eccles cap. 2. And therefore they conclude that they are out of the Church and no better then heretikes that doe not acknowledge the Pope to be their chiefe Pastor Canis de praecept eccles cap. 9. So they make the Romane faith and Catholike to bee all one Rhemist annot in 1. Rom. sect 5. Their reasons are none other then we haue seene before taken from vniuersalitie antiquitie vnitie vnto the which wee haue alreadie answered quaest 3. of this controuersie Not. 1 2 3. The Protestants WHile the Church of Rome continued in the doctrine of the Apostles it was a notable and famous visible Church and a principall part and member of the vniuersall Catholike but now since it is degenerate and fallen away from the Apostolike faith from being the house of God to be a synagogue for Antichrist we take it not to be so much as a true visible Church But neuer was it to be counted the Catholike Church as though all other Churches were parts and members of it but it selfe onely was a part as others and Catholike too while it continued in the right faith but not Catholike as hauing iurisdiction ouer the rest and all to receiue this name of her 1 The vniuersall Catholike Church is so called because it conteyneth the whole number of the elect and first borne of God Heb. 12.23 Whereof manie are now saints in heauen many liuing in the earth many yet vnborne But all these were not neither are of the Romane faith the holie men departed knewe not of these superstitious and prodigious vsages which now doe raigne in the Church of Rome nay many of them neuer heard in their life so much as of the name of Rome Ergo. 2 It is called Catholike and vniuersall because they that are to be saued must belong vnto this companie and be of this Church for without the Church there is no saluation for Christ onely gaue himselfe for his Church to sanctifie it and cleanse it Ephes. 5.25 But all that dye out of the faith of the Romane Church do not perish Nay verely we doubt not to say but that all which depart this life in the communion thereof without repentance are barred from saluation and dye out of grace We are in the right faith neither will we be our owne iudges the scriptures shall iudge vs Euery spirit that confesseth that Iesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God 1. Iohn 4.2 We beleeue aright in both the natures and all the offices of Christ which you doe not which doe greatly deface his prophetical office in not reuerencing his word but making it imperfect his kingdom in appointing him a Vicar and Vicegerent vpon earth as though he of himselfe were not sufficient to gouerne
better argument can we haue against this Popish decree then the great vncleannes and foule enormities that haue been brought by the meanes thereof into the Church In the time of Gregorie the first who enioyned his Clergie to liue single commaunding on a time his seruants to catch him some fish out of his Motes and Ponds in stead of fish they brought vnto him sixe thousand heads of yong children whereupon he fetching a great sigh with himselfe commended then the saying of the Apostle It is better to marrie then to burne Bellarmine hath no better answere then to denie the storie which notwithstanding is found in the Epistle of Huldericus Bishop of Augusta which he sent to Pope Nicholas Fox pag. 1155. In Anselmes time after the restraint of Ministers marriage great rumors and complaint was brought to him of the execrable vice of Sodomitrie which began to raigne in the Clergie Pope Pius the second saide hee sawe manie waightie causes why wiues should bee taken away from Priests but he saw more why they should be restored to them againe Bishop Iewell Apol. cap. 8. diuis 3. Bernard saith Tolle de Ecclesia honorabile coniugium c. Take from the Church honorable Matrimonie shall you not replenish it with incestuous persons concubinaries Sodomiticall vices Hereupon the popish Catholikes seeing their owne infirmitie began thus to salue vp the matter Si non castè tamen cautè if thou deale not chastly yet deale charily Yea they are not ashamed thus to write If any of the Priests should bee found imbracing of a woman it must bee expounded and presupposed that hee doth it to blesse her I but saith Bellarmine these are the abuses of single life will you condemne a good thing because of the abuse by the same reason saith he coelum terra tollenda sunt Heauen and earth must be taken away because they were abused of the heathen and taken for Gods cap. 21. Answere First wee say not that these bee the fruites of single life which Saint Paul commendeth in all those that haue the gift but of this co-acted and constrained Popish Virginitie which is imposed indifferently vpon all and cannot haue any good vse secondlie when you can proue that restraining of Ministers marriage is of Gods ordinance as it is certaine Heauen and earth are of his making then wee will grant vnto you that it may haue a right vse and for the abuse ought not vtterly to be abolished 4 Lastly Augustine saith Quae nubere volunt ideo non nubunt quia impunè non possunt melius nuberent quà m vrerentur id est quà m occulta flamma concupiscentiae in ipsa conscientia vastarentur Those Virgins which would marrie but cannot because of restraint and reproch might better marrie then burne that is to say then with the secret flame of concupiscence to be wasted and consumed in their conscience Wherefore it followeth that all they both Ministers votaries Virgines that haue not power to absteine should doe better for all their profession and vow to marrie then to burne THE SECOND PART WHETHER any ought to bee admitted to the Ministerie after second marriage The Papists THey denie not but that Bishops and Ministers hauing been once married error 78 are rightly ordeyned so that afterward they doe not companie with their wiues but they which haue been either themselues twice married or haue married a widdow which had a husband before are vtterlie vncapable of holy orders Bellarmine cap. 23. Rhemist Timoth. 3. sect 4. and this they call Bigamie 1 They reason thus out of Saint Pauls words 1. Timoth. 4.2 A Bishop must be the husband of one wife that is say they that no kinde a way was Bigamus or had two wiues either at once or one after another And they proue their interpretation thus First as Saint Paul describeth a widow of the Church 1. Timoth. 5.9 that hath been the wife of one husband so here hee saith of a Bishop that he should be the husband of one wife but that is meant successiuè of one husband after another for it was neuer seene that one woman should haue more husbands then one at once nor neuer suffered either amongst the Iewes or Gentiles therefore it must be so taken here a husband of one wife that is who hath been but once married as it is taken there a wife of one husband that neuer had more not onely simul at once but not successiuè not successiuely one after another Bellarmine cap. 23. Ans. First there were many women both among the Iewes and Gentiles that had forsaken their first husbands and were vnlawfully coupled to others and so had moe husbands at once and likewise many men that had done the like to their wiues but afterward repented and were conuerted to the Christian faith but yet were not admitted to any publike office in the Church because of their former infamous life Of such the Apostle speaketh in both these places and not of those that married one wife or one husband after another It is therefore great boldnes and a greater vntruth to say that there were none such heard of in those dayes for although it were neither lawfull then nor now yet both many such were heard of in those dayes and it were no hard matter to finde out some now among the papists that haue had more then one wife at once Secondly he is not to be counted Bigamus or Digamus that is coupled and ioyned to one wife after another lawfullie but he that vnlawfully at once enioyeth more then one Fulk Annot. Timoth. 5. sect 6. cap. 3. sect 4. 2 Againe say they the high Priest in the lawe was not permitted to marrie a widow Leuit. 21.13 Which lawe being obserued in the high Priest ought much more to be kept now Rhemist Answere That lawe concerning the high Priest did onely appertaine to himselfe who was a figure of Christ neither can it be extended to the Ministers of the Gospell no more then any other partes of his office that were peculiar to that state and calling Fulk Annot. 1. Timoth. 3. sect 4. The Protestants THat it is not by the word of God forbidden that any man should marrie the second yea the third time after the decease of his wife neither that hee is to be counted vnchast or giuen to wantonnes in so doing much lesse hee that in his first marriage taketh a widow neither that to haue been twise married ought to be a barre or a stop from entring into the state and calling of the Ministerie if otherwise the man be qualified and furnished with sufficient graces for that calling thus it is proued 1 They that cut off such as haue been twise married from behauing any calling in the Church doe sauour of the heresie of Montanus into the which also Tertulliane fell who condemned second marriage for if once marriage be no impediment nor preiudice to him that is to bee ordained but
notwithstanding for popish inuocation of Angels for the Angel here coÌ„mendeth not the prayers of the Saints by his merit but by the much incense giuen vnto him to ad to the prayers of the Saints to make them acceptable which is the sweete smell and sauour of the precious dâ—ath and merites of Christ. Fulk in hunc locum Augustine indeede sometime ascribeth such an office vnto the Angelles to carry vp our prayers to Heauen as their charge is to carry vp our soules not as mediatours or intercessors but as the Lords messengers and agents here vpon earth to reporte vnto him our affaires dicuntur Angeli preces nostras vota Deo offerre non vt deum doceant qui omnia antequam fiant nouit sed vt super his dei voluntatem consulant The Angelles are said to offer vp our prayers and vowes vnto God not to informe or instruct the Lord but onely to consult and know his pleasure tom 9. de dilection Cap. 3. in Psalm 74. for the Angels haue two offices the one to execute the commaundement of God in the world and to attend vpon him to receiue their charge Math. 18.10 the other to returne vnto God as faithfull messengers the successe of their busines in the worlde Zechar. 1.10 Now whether the Angelles be appointed of God to report vnto him our sayings and doings as other affaires of our life the scripture no where euidently sheweth Neither if it were graunted would it any thing helpe their popish inuocation of Angelles Rhemist alleadge Tob. 12.12 to proue the offering of our prayers by Angelles Answer It is neither canonicall Scripture nor agreeable vnto it Fulk annot Coloss. 2. sect 3. The Protestants THe scripture alwayes maketh Christ our onely Mediator neither Angelles nor Saints by whome our prayers and all other spirituall sacrifices are offered vnto God Fulk ibid. 1 Hebrew 13.15 Let vs by him offer the sacrifice of praise alwayes to God 1. Peter 2.5 You are an holy priesthoode to offer vp spirituall sacrifices acceptable to God by Iesus Christ. Ergo Christ Iesus is our onely Mediator Secondly Galatian 3.19 The Lawe was ordayned by Angelles in the hand of a Mediator Ergo the Angelles are one office and the Mediator another Augustine sayeth Quòd non aliquem ex Angelis dicit Mediatorem sed ipsum Dominum nostrum Iesum Christum habes alio loco vnus inquit Deus vnus mediator Dei hominum homo Christus Iesus That the Apostle calleth not any of the Angels but only Iesus Christ our Lord Mediator we haue in another place There is one God saith he and one Mediator of God and man the Man Iesus Christ. AN APPENDIX OR THIRD PART of this question whether Angelles or Saints know our heartes The Papists THe Angelles and other Celestiall spirites doe knowe our heartes and inwarde repentance And betweene the Angelles and the blessed soules of Saintes there is no difference in this case the one being as highly exalted and neere God as the other in whome and by whome only they see and know our affaires Luke 15.10 There is ioy in heauen in the presence of the Angelles ouer one sinner that repenteth Ergo they know our repentaunce Rhemist Lu. 15. Sect. 2. Ans. 1 Our heartes and inward repentance are not knowen to the Angelles but by the fruites and true effectes thereof 2 Although the elect after the resurrection shal be like in glorie to the Angelles yet it followeth not that they shall be like in all thinges much lesse that their soules now in heauen be in all thinges like vnto the Angelles whose presence and Ministerie God vseth in the preseruation of his chosen 3 That all thinges done in the worlde may be seene in God as in a glasse is but a prophane speculation and the deuise of an ydle braine Fulk ibid. Argum. 2 Abraham had knowledge of things in earth which were not in his time as that they had Moyses and the Prophetes bookes which hee neuer sawe Luk. 16. ver 29. Rhemist Answere First In this narration many thinges are spoken parabolically out of the which we must not ground any doctrine not taught els where in scripture for you may aswell say that soules haue fingers and tounges and that elementall water wil quench hell fire as that Abraham knew what books were written after his death Secondly Albeit that the doctrine of the Church comprehended in the scriptures might be reuealed to Abraham after his death yet it followeth not that he knew all thinges as you affirme the saintes doe by beholding the Maiestie of God Fulk annot ibid. The saintes therefore in heauen knowe so much as the Lord thinketh good to reueale vnto them they knowe not all things The Protestants WE deny not but that as Prophetes and holy men in this life may knowe many secret thinges reuealed vnto them by the spirit of God as Peter found out the secret fraude of Ananias Sapphirae Eliseus being absent found out Gehezi his corruption yea hee could tell what was doone in the King of Syria his chamber so the Lord may reueale vnto the saintes in heauen at his pleasure some thinges done vpon earth But that they receiued any such gift of God to know all thinges done vpon earth it is a great vntrueth and cleane contrary to the scriptures 1. Salomon sayeth in his prayer vnto God Heare thou in heauen in thy dwelling place and giue vnto euery man according to his wayes as thou knowest his heart for thou onely knowest the hearts of all the children of men 1. King 8.39 Out of this place we thus reason he only knoweth the heart that is the Iudge of all men and a rewarder of them according to their wayes But the Lord onely is iudge Ergo. Againe the wordes themselues be plaine that God onely knoweth the heart so that what knowledge of secrets the Saintes haue it is by reuelation not by searching the heart Againe S. Paul saith No man knoweth the thinges of man saue the spirit of man which is in him so the thinges of God knoweth no man but the spirite of God 1. Corinth 1.11 the Rhemist aunswer that no man knoweth the secrets of the heart naturally but by extraordinary gift he may as the Prophets did Ans. No man euer had or can haue a generall gift to know the heart but when God seeth it good to reueale it for otherwise the comparison holdeth not The spirit of God onely knoweth the things of God which also is giuen to men to know but not by receiuing any gift to search and looke into the nature and heart as it were of God for then should they knowe all the secrets of God which neuer any did but onely by reuelation of the spirite which openeth Gods secrets vnto them so farre as it is conuenient and needfull Euen after the same manner the spirite of God may reueale the secrets of the heart of man not by giuing them a generall gift
them selues to looke into the heart as into a glasse but by reuealing such thinges when the Lord seeth it expedient Neither had the prophets an inherent gift and dwelling in them to know secrets but the worde of God was inspired into them at times as they had neede as we see in Nathan 2. Sam. 7.3.4 in Elisha 2. King 2.15 in Isaiah 2. Kin. 20.4 And though Paul was taken vp into heauen and sawe many secrets yet he knew not all for thus he saith of him selfe If I knew all secretes 1. Corinth 13.2 Ergo no man euer receiued this gift to search the heart but it is proper vnto God who will not giue his honour to another 2. Augustine saith Nescire mortuos quid hic agatur dum hic agitur that the dead know not what is done here while it is in doing But they vnderstand either by relation of those that departe this worlde or els by the Angels Non quidem omnia sed quae sinuntur indicare sicut Prophetae nec hic omnia cognoscebant sed quae illis essereuelanda dei prouidentia iudicarat de cura pro mortuis cap. 15. Neither do they know all things but what God suffereth to be knowen as neither did the Prophets knowe al things while they liued but what God in his diuine prouidence thought good to reueale vnto them I note out of this saying of Augustine three thinges FIRST What great vncertaintie of opinion heere is Howe the dead should come by the knowledge of humane affaires the Papists think they haue it by Gods gift otherwhile they say they see all thinges in God as in a cleare glasse Augustine sayeth they knowe them by the Angelles or by men newly departed this lyfe so that it appeareth to bee but a meer conceit and imagination that they haue any such knowledge whereof there is no surer ground Secondly Augustine saith they know not things presently done but afterward contrarie to the Papists Thirdly they know not all things as the Prophets also did not but what the Lord reuealeth vnto them wherein also he is contrarie to our aduersaries THE THIRD QVESTION CONCERNING THE worship of Angels first in generall then in particular of inuocation The Papists THey say that the diuine honour and adoration due vnto God alone is not to be giuen to Angels But there is a religious reuerence honour and adoration which is not to be denyed to Angels and Saints Rhemist annot Apocalyps 19. sect 4. 1 Iosua fell downe before the Angel and worshipped Iosua 5. Rhemist Ans. He worshipped not an Angel but the Lord Christ himselfe the captaine of the Lords armie for it was a diuine worship He is bid to put off his shooes as Moses was when God appeared out of the fierie bush Exod. 3. But a diuine worship by your owne confession is due onely to God Fulk annot Coloss. 2.3 2. 1. Timoth. 2.21 I charge thee before God and the Lord Iesus Christ and his elect Angels that thou obserue these things Ergo Angels may be adored and reuerenced Rhemist Ans. Saint Paul maketh here the Angels witnesses of his waightie charge so Moses calleth heauen and earth to witnesse Deut. 30.19 may we therefore conclude that he yeelded any religious worship to heauen and earth Fulk ibid. The Protestants AS for due reuerence which is of loue not of any seruice there is no question but we ought to yeeld it vnto the Angels But all religious seruice or worship is due onely to God and whosoeuer man or Angel requireth or receiueth any religious worship or seruice vsurpeth that which is due vnto God Fulk Apocal. 19. sect 4. 1 Apocal. 19.10 and 22.9 Iohn fell downe to worship the Angel but the Angel suffered him not See thou doe it not saith he for I am thy fellowe seruant and of thy brethren worship God Ergo Angels are not to be adored with any religious worship Rhemist First he forbiddeth him onely to worship him with diuine adoration Ans. The words are generall he sayth not worship God with this kind of seruice but worship God Rhemist Secondly you say that Iohn so worthie an Apostle was not ignorant of that poynt that Angels were not to be worshipped as God we may replye also that if Iohn had knowne that this other kind of seruice was vnlawfull he would not haue done it Ans. Iohn sinned not of ignorance but of forgetfulnes in this extasie of his mind while he beheld the glorie of the Angel as likewise through his frailenes and forgetfulnes he committeth the like againe cap. 22. which Iohn would not haue done being once before admonished had he not presently forgotten himselfe But the other error of worshipping the creature for the Creator was too grosse an error for the Apostle Rhemist Thirdly he was deceiued in the person taking the Angel for Christ and therefore was not culpable at all in this fact in giuing diuine honour to the Angel for he sinned onely materially not formally Ans. First Iohn was not ignorant that he was an Angel and not Christ for he sayth he was one of the seuen Angels that had the seuen vials Secondly though he sinned of ignorance yet was it a sinne for the Prophet which beleeued the olde Prophet sinned grieuously as it appeared by his punishment though he did it ignorantly 1. King 13. Wherefore it is a grosse error of your Schoolemen that say a man sinneth not if he worship the diuell in the shape of an Angel ignorantly Rhemist Fourthly the Angel would not receiue this worship at Iohns hand whom he knew to be in great fauour with God and greater then some Angel Ans. First though hereafter the childrē of God shal be made equall to the Angels in glorie yet in this mortall life they must needes be inferiour seeing Christ himself in respect of his passion was inferiour to the Angels Heb. 2.9 Secondly the Angel would not haue taken this homage at any other mans hands beside Iohn for he giueth a reason that he is not only his fellow seruant but also of his brethren So for al their shifts and cauils we strongly conclude by this example that no religious honour ought to be giuen to Angels 2 Honoramus Angelos charitate non seruitute sayth Augustine nec eis templa construimus We honour Angels with the duetie of loue not of seruice neither doe we build temples vnto them Quod ergo colit summus Angelus id colendum etiam est ab homine vltimo That therefore which is worshipped of the highest Angel the man of lowest degree ought also to worship De vera religion cap. 55. Ergo no worship due vnto Angels but all vnto God THE SECOND PART OF THE INVOcation of Angels The Papists THey hold that it is lawfull to direct our praiers vnto Angels Rhemist Coloss 2. sect 3. Yea and because they pray for vs and deale with God to procure mercie for vs they may iustly be called our aduocates Angels are deputed for our protection
fidei testimonium This Christian duetie bestowed in burying the dead bodies which shall notwithstanding rise againe is a liuely testimonie in vs of the same faith That is we doe carefully commit the bodies of Christians to the ground knowing that they are not lost but shall rise againe but as for the dead themselues they receiue no benefite at all Curatio funeris pompae exequiarum viuorum sunt solatia magis quà m subsidia mortuorum This great prouision for funerals this great pompe of burials they are comforts for the liuing not helpes to the dead Impleant ergo homines ista erga suos postremi muneris officia sui leuamenta moeroris Let men therefore performe this last duetie to their friends which is also a great lightening of their griefe Ergo funerals profite not the dead but comfort the liuing yea it is called the last duetie which is performed at burials If it be the last then there is no duetie afterward to be done therefore prayers also are superfluous for if it were needfull to pray for the dead then the last duetie should not be in the buriall another comming afterward And thus much also concerning the manner and order of funerals THE SECOND PART OF THIS CONTROuersie of the Saints departed that are in ioye and blisse THis controuersie standeth of these seuerall questions 1. Of the blessed estate of the Saints in heauen and of the Canonizing of them vpon earth 2. Of the adoration of Saints First whether they be to be adored or not and whether it be lawfull to sweare by them Secondly of the diuers kinds of worship Thirdly of the worship of Saints vpon earth 3. Of the inuocation of Saints whether they pray for vs and vnderstand our praiers 4. Of the adoration translation keeping of reliques and of the miracles wrought by them 5. Of Images and the signe of the Crosse other matters thereto belonging more particularly handled 6 Of Churches the forme vse ornaments dedication of them and such like 7 Of Pilgrimages and Processions 8 Of holy and festiuall daies the Lords day Saints daies and of Lent 9 Of the Virgin Mary her conception vowes assumption worship merites Of these now in order THE FIRST QVESTION CONCERNING THE blessed and happie estate of the Saints departed THis question hath two parts First of their blessednes which they haue before God in heauen Secondly of the publishing or making knowne their blessednes before men which they call the canonizing of Saints THE FIRST PART OF THE BLESSED estate of the Saints before God in heauen The Papists BEllarmine taketh great paynes Lib. 1. De Sanctis in sixe long chapters together to proue that the Saints departed doe presently enioy the sight of God and doe enter into blisse and that their soules forthwith are receiued into heauen and are not kept in any secret by-places till the day of iudgement But all this while he sighteth with his owne shadowe for we grant as much as he proueth that the righteous are with Christ so soone as they are loosed from their bodies as Christ sayd to the theefe vpon the Crosse This day thou shalt be with me in Paradise Luk. 23.42 See also to this purpose Philipp 1.23 2. Corinth 5.1 Heb. 12.22 All these places doe euidently proue that presently after their departure the soules of the faithfull doe enioy the presence of Christ and the celestiall companie of the Angels in heauen Yet our aduersaries stay not heere neither are contented with this that the Saints are blessed but proceede further and giue them a full possession of blessednesse making no difference betweene error 22 them and the Angels in glorie but affirme that they are as highly exalted as the Angels are Rhemist annot Luk. 15. sect 2. And Bellarmine therefore taketh vp Caluine because he saith the Saints are yet in hope and expectation of the perfect fruition of glorie Cap. 1. lib. 1. De Sanctis The Protestants WE confesse that the Saints in heauen are alreadie blessed yet they looke for the full accomplishment and perfection of their glorie when as their bodies shall be glorified in the resurrection Then it is sayd they shall be like the Angels and yet not in all things much lesse are their soules now equall to the Angels in glorie Fulk ibid. annot Luk. 15. sect 2. Argum. 1. The Saints shall be as the Angels but not before the resurrection Math. 22.30 Neither can it be proued out of that text that they shall then be equall to the Angels in all things for it is not all one to say they shall be as the Angels because they shall then neede no marriage as to say they shall be equal to the Angels in all things Apocalyps 6.10 The soules vnder the altar doe crie Lord how long Ergo they are in expectation of greater glorie And reason also giueth as much that the bodie and the soule being ioyned together in the kingdome of God shall make a fuller weight and measure of ioye Argum. 2. The wicked spirits and damned soules haue not yet their full and perfect torment Ergo neither the Saints their perfect ioye The diuels are now tormented and kept in chaines of darknesse 2. Pet. 2.4 Iud. 6. But their full damnation is reserued for the day of the Lord Math. 25.41 They are not yet tormented in such measure as they shall be and themselues make account for Math. 8.29 Luk. 8.31 Lastly if now the Saints are equall to the Angels in ioye their soules onely being in heauen it then followeth that in the resurrection when their bodies shall be restored to their soules their happines shall farre exceede the Angels which no where the scripture teacheth vs vnles they will thus reason Christ tooke not the Angels but the seede of Abraham Hebr. 2.16 Ergo wee are better then the Angels But to this Augustine answereth very well Some perhaps will say that wee are better then the Angels because Christ dyed for vs and not for the Angels Quale est sayth he ideo se velle aegrotum laudari quia vitio suo tam detestabiliter aegrotauit vt non posset aliter quam medic◠morte sanari As if a sicke man deserued commendation because by his owne fault he was so dangerously sicke that he could not be healed but by the death of the Phisition Quid hoc aliud est quà m de impietate gloriari Christus enim pro impijs mortuus est What is this els but for man to boast of his wickednes Christ dyed not for angels but for men because they were wicked THE SECOND PART OF THE Canonizing of Saints The Papists error 23 THe Canonizing of Saints is nothing els but the publike determination and sentence of the Church whereby men that are dead are iudged to be Saints and worthie of honour and worship as to be prayed vnto temples and altars to be set vp in their names holy daies to be appoynted for them and their reliques to
one for another is commaunded and requyred of God as the other is not Wherefore to run vnto saints and not vnto Christ is to doubt either of his readines or ability to helpe vs. 3 Iohn 16.26 Christ saith that after he hath by his mediation and intercession brought vs into the fauour of God In that day shall you aske the Father in my name and I say not that I will pray to the Father for you for the Father himselfe loueth you If then the prayer of Christ to God his Father shall not then be needfull what vse is there of the prayer of other creatures Fulk 1. Tim. 2. sect 4. Augustine saith Pro quo nullus interpellat ipse pro omnib hic vnus verusque Mediator est lib. 2. cont Parmenian cap. 8. He for whome no man prayeth but him selfe entreateth for all men he is the onely true Mediator Ergo saintes no mediators and therefore not to be prayed vnto THE SECOND PART WHETHER THE Saints departed do pray for vs. The Papists error 29 THat the saints in heauen do not onely pray in general but particularly for vs ready in all our needs by their prayer and mediation to assist vs thus they would proue it Argum. 1. 2. Pet. 1.15 I wil endeuour saith the Apostle that you may haue remembrance of these thinges after my departure Peter promiseth to be careful of them and to pray for them after his departure Rhemist ibid. Bellarm. cap. 18. Ans. This which here the Apostle promiseth he performeth in writing this Epistle whereby they might be put in remembrance when hee was gone And therefore he saith ver 13. I think it meete so long as I am in this Tabernacle to stir you vp by putting you in remembrance he acknowledgeth now only to be the time wherein he may do them good and therefore deferreth it not There is no sillable which soundeth that way that he would pray for them after his dissolution Argum. 2 Apocal. 5.8 The 24. Elders are said to haue golden vialles ful of odors which are the prayers of the saints Rhemist in hunc locum Ergo the Saints in heauen do pray for vs. Ans. The 24 Elders do represent the Church Militant vpon earth whose conuersation is in heauen and they do continually offer vp their prayers And that the place is so to be vnderstoode it appeareth verse 10. Thou hast made vs Kinges and priests and we shall raigne vpon the earth that is their kingdome is spirituall in fighting against and ouercomming the concupiscence of the flesh and all carnall desires The Protestants THat the blessed Saintes doe sing vnto the praise of God in heauen and doe magnifie the Lord and praise him with a new song of thankesgiuing which is a kinde of prayer we deny not Apocal. 5.9 and that they haue a general desire and longing both for vs for themselues and all the elect of God that the day of our refreshing were come and that all the people of God were ioyned in one and their enemies vanquished and destroyed we learne also out of the scripture Apocal. 6.9 But that they should offer vp our speciall prayers make particular request for vs to God it no where in the scripture is found but rather the contrary Argum. 1. The scripture no where testifieth that the Saints in such manner do pray for vs Ergo we may safely be ignorant of it nay it were great presumption without scripture to beleeue it Argum. 2 The Saints departed know not our wants nor what is done in the earth The liuing know that they shall die but the dead knowe nothing at all Eccles. 9.5 But of this more shall be said in the next part See Augustine of this matter contro 8. quaest 2. part 3. THE THIRD PART WHETHER THE Saints vnderstand our prayers and be alwaies at hand to helpe vs. The Papists THey affirme 3. things which they are driuē to graunt by necessity of Argument while they stifly mantaine inuocation of Saints For first they graunt error 30 that they know our hearts and our inward repentaunce and secret thoughtes for otherwise it would not auaile to pray vnto them yet not of themselues but by the reuelation of God Bellarm. cap. 20. Ans. We deny not but that God may reueale vnto them some things at his pleasure but heereof it followeth not that they know all our affaires and heare all our prayers Againe what a preposterous order is this and superfluous God first reuealeth vnto them our prayers and then they solicite God in our behalfe I praye you what neede this seeing God knoweth our prayers First why is he not as ready of himselfe to graunt our requestes as to staye till he be entreated Secondly seeing it were in vaine to pray to Saints if they had not power to help vs they also are vrged to confesse that the saints are patrones of men and haue the gouernment of the worlde committed to them yea that they may receiue others into the kingdome of heauen Argum. 1. Apocal. 2.26 To him that ouercommeth wil I giue power ouer nations and he shall rule ouer them with a rod of Iron Ergo the saints haue the gouernment of men committed vnto them Rhemist ibid. Bellarm. cap. 18. Ans. The power which our Sauiour heere promiseth is the participation of his kingly inheritance first spiritually to ouercome the world by faith in this life and after this life they shall be set in ful possession of his royall inheritance The Rod of Iron is the worde of God which is also called a two edged sword whereby they execute vengeance vpon the heathen Psal. 149.7 It is the sword of the spirite whereby the wicked shall be destroyed Augustin expoundeth it to be the rod of Iustice whereby the good are corrected and the wicked broken in peeces Homil. 2. in Apocal. Argum. 2 Luke 16.9 Make you friends of the vnrighteous Mammon that when they need they may receiue you into euerlasting habitations see the saints may receiue their friends and benefactours into their eternal mansions Rhemist ibid. Ans. 1 Almes bestowed vpon the poore do procure their prayers but not their patronage 2 The wordes are thus parabolically to bee vnderstoode They shall receiue you that is shall giue testimony of you and your almes shall be a testimony of your charity and proceeding from a liuely faith shall euerlastingly be rewarded 3 That it is not meant of the persons but of the worke it is plaine because almes which issue from a true faith shall be rewarded at the Lords hand though bestowed vpon an hypocrite Fulk ibid. Thirdly They also hold that the saints at their pleasure can be present with their bodies and be amongst vs and so heare our praiers Bellarm. cap. 20. Argum. 1 Otherwise the saints should be fettered as it were in heauen if they remaine and be kept all in one place Ans. They are not fettered when they are limited by the Lord to a place see also what
lier Augustine sayth of Christ Secundum corporalem praesentiam simul in sole luna cruce esse non potest Christ according to his corporall presence cannot be in the Sunne the Moone and vpon the Crosse all at one time And concerning the other poynt he writeth thus Spatia locorum tolle corporibus nusquam erunt quia nusquam erunt nec erunt Take away space of place from bodies and they shall be no where and if they be in no place then are they not at all Argum. 2. The reall and carnall presence of Christ in the Sacrament is a thing superfluous needles and vnprofitable First the fauour of God in the remission of sinnes through Christ is as well sealed vnto vs in Baptisme as in the Lords Supper what neede then the carnal presence in the one more then in the other Secondly that Christ is in bodie present in the Sacrament is not perceiued by any sense for they neither tast him see him nor feele him it must be then a worke of faith but by faith Christ is as well apprehended being absent as being supposed in this manner to be present Ergo this kind of presence is needles Argum. 3. It is an inglorious vnworthie and vnseemely thing that the glorious and impassible bodie of Christ should be inclosed in the formes of bread and wine deuoured and chawed eaten and gnawed of mice subiect to mould and rottennes to be spilt vpon the ground burnt in the fire for all these inconueniences must needes follow vpon the carnall presence Bellarm. It is no more inglorious or impossible for these things now to happen to the bodie of Christ thē it was for him to be carried in his mothers womb to be swathed in swadling bands and to be subiect to iniuries which were done to his bodie vpon earth Ans. First as though there be the like reason of the passible bodie of Christ while he liued in the world which was buffeted whipped pearced with nayles crucified and of his glorious and impassible bodie now that it may in like manner be rent and diuided Secondly neither was it possible that Christs passible bodie should be subiect to the like infirmities as to rottennes corruption consumption in the fire as his bodie is now in the Sacrament If it were then verified in Christ Thou shalt not suffer thy holy one to see corruption for his bodie did not putrifie or corrupt in the graue much more is it true in the glorious bodie of Christ that it cannot suffer any such things How then are you not ashamed to affirme that the bread and wine are made in the Sacrament the very bodie and blood of Christ seeing those elements if they be kept long will waxe sower and mouldie and fall to corruption which things once to thinke of the glorious bodie of Christ were great impietie Leaue off for shame then these your grosse opinions so much derogatorie to the glorie and honour of Christ. THE SECOND QVESTION CONCERNING Transubstantiation The Papists IF any man shall say that there remaineth the substance of bread and wine in the Sacrament after the words of consecration or shall denye that the whole error 115 substance of bread is changed and conuerted into the bodie of Christ and the whole substance of wine into the blood of Christ the formes and shewes onely of bread and wine remaining which singular and miraculous conuersion the Church calleth Transubstantiation let him be accursed Concil Tridentin sess 13. can 2. Bellarm. lib. 3. de sacra euchar cap. 19. Rhemist Matth. 17. sect 1. Argum. 1. Christ transfigured his bodie marueilously in the Mount as wee reade Math. 17. sect 1. Ergo he is able to exhibite his bodie vnder the formes of bread and wine Rhemist Ans. First your argument followeth not Christ could giue a glorious forme to his passible bodie Ergo he can take away the essentiall properties of his naturall bodie and yet keepe a true bodie stil. Or thus Christ could glorifie his bodie not yet glorified Ergo he can or will dishonour his glorious impassible bodie by enclosing it vnder the formes of base creatures to be deuoured of dogs and mice which is honoured and worshipped of the Angels and Saints in heauen Secondly the question is not so much of Christs power as of his will therefore you conclude not aright Christ is able to doe it Ergo he will Argum. 2. He that seeth water turned into wine by the power of Christ need not to doubt how he changeth bread into his bodie Rhemist Ioh. 2. sect 2. Ans. First when you can bring any warrant out of scripture for your imagined conuersion as we haue for this miracle we will giue eare vnto you Secondly and when it shall appeare to the senses that the bread is changed into flesh as the water was knowne to be turned into the wine by the colour and tast we shall then no more doubt of this conuersion of the bread then they did of the other of water Thirdly if Christ could alter and change the substances of creatures what reason haue you to giue such an omnipotent power to euery priest with a fewe words to doe as much as Christ himselfe could when he was present Fourthly all this proueth but an abilitie and power in Christ not a will or purpose to worke any such change or conuersion Argum. 3. Though the substance of bread and wine be chaunged yet the formes remaine still for these causes First because if the formes also should be changed there should be no sensible signe left and so no Sacrament Secondly the faith of the receiuer is the better tried this way who beleeueth the flesh of Christ to be present though he see it not Thirdly Christ would not haue the formes altered because man abhorreth to eate humane flesh in the proper shape Bellarm. cap. 22. Ans. First your first reason is insufficient for neither doe the bare and naked signes or accidents of the elements make a Sacrament but the substance of thē for betweene the Sacrament and the thing thereby represented there ought to be some conueniencie and agreement namely as the bodie is nourished by bread and wine so doth the soule feed vpon the bodie and bloud of Christ. But they are not the accidents of bread and wine that nourish vs but the substance Ergo not the accidents but the substance is the visible signe Likewise in Baptisme it is not the forme or outward accident of water that is the signe but the substance of water that washeth 2. It is a more liuely operation of faith to beleeue in Christ absent in heauen then present in earth although he appeare not to the senses And Christ is indeed properly the obiect of faith as he is now in heauen Hope saith the Apostle entreth into that which is within the vaile whither our forerunner Iesus is entred for vs Heb. 6.19 Faith and hope therefore doe leade vs to things within the vaile that is things
my God which wordes must needs declare an inward confideÌ„ce and assured trust in God The Protestants WE holde it was necessary for our redemption that Christ should not onely suffer bodily paines but also feele the very anguish and horror of soule that as by his death we are redeemed both body and soule so he should pay the ransome for both in his body and soule 1. That our Sauiour suffered great anguish in soule the scripture testifieth for before his suffring in his body vpon the crosse being in the garden he saith of himselfe My soule is heauy vnto death at the same time being grieuously troubled he sweat water and blood and last of all hanging vpon the crosse he cryed out By those effectes it is euidently proued that there was a greater feare in him then of the death of the body for many holy Martyrs haue without any shew of such griefe endured horrible torments in the flesh and therefore consequently it followeth that those things proceeded from the griefe of his soule as the Apostle sheweth Heb. 5.7 He offered vp praiers with strong crying and teares to him that was able to saue him from death and was heard in that which he feared If it had beene onely feare of bodily death what need such strong cries with teares And the text is plaine that he was heard that is saued froÌ„ the death which he feared but he was not saued from the bodily death for he died and gaue vp the ghost wherefore it was the great horror of soule that caused him to feare Bellarm. answereth for all this that it was the bodily death which he feared but not of necessitie because he could not otherwise choose but willingly he would abide this brunt also of the feare and sorrow of death Voluit poenam maeroris timoris subire vt redemptio esset copiosae And heerein he exceedeth all other men that haue suffered for they are ridde from feare because God giueth them greater comfort and they regarde not the present torment but Christ willingly and of his owne accord drew himselfe into this agonie of feare Ans. 1. That Christ as he was God had determined and set it downe to dye for the world it is not to be doubted of but that as he was man he had not a desire to escape death as being ignorant of Gods determination it is contrary to the Scriptures which make mention of his earnest praier that he made thrice that the cup might passe Math. 26. Therefore Christ willingly entred not into that agony of feare in his humane desire but as submitting himselfe and his will in obedience to his fathers will 2. He is contrary to him selfe in saying that Christs bodily sufferings were sufficient for our redemption and yet graunteth that Christ vt redemptio esset copiosa That our redemption might be more full would abide also the smart of the feare of death If he feared but the bodily death as he saith yet was he troubled in soule and therefore besides bodily paine he suffered anguish in his soule Argum. 2. Act. 2.24 Whom God hath raised vp saith S. Peter and loosed the sorrowes of death for it was impossible that he should be holden of it Ergo Christ suffered the sorrowes of death and felt the wrath of God which caused those sorrowes The vulgare Latine hath the sorrowe of hell solutis dolorib infernâ— which pincheth the Papists very sore for how could Christ be loosed from the sorrowes of hell if first he had not beene helde of them That which Bellarmine answereth that Christ loosed the sorrowes of hell for others which were to be deliuered is but a poore shift for the text is plaine It was impossible that he that is Christ himselfe should be stil holden of it it is spoken of the holding of Christ and not of any other Argu. 3. The prophet Esay saith He was wounded for our sins and broken for our iniquities the chastisement of our peace was vpon him and with his stripes are we healed Esay 53.5 But we could haue no peace with God vnlesse all the punishment due vnto vs for our sinne had beene vndertaken by Christ wherefore seeing we by our sinne had deserued to be punished both in body soule it was necessary that our redeemer should be wounded and broken wholly for vs for how els by his stripes should we wholly be healed Augustine thus reasoneth against Felicianus the Arrian and proueth that Christ tooke not onely humane flesh but an humane soule Si totus homo periâ—â— c. If man wholly were lost saith he he had wholly need of a Sauiour and if he wholly needed a Sauiour Christ by his comming wholly redeemed him therefore Christ tooke vpon him the whole nature of man both body soule for if since the whole man hath sinned Christ onely had taken our flesh the soule of man should still remaine guiltie of punishment haec Augustine cont Felician cap. 13. By the same reason we proue it was necessary that Christ should suffer both in body and soule by the which Augustine inferreth that Christ tooke both body and soule he did assume them both to redeeme both But he redeemed vs not in being borne for vs or walking or preaching heere vpon earth although these were preparations to his sacrifice but by dying and suffering for vs Ergo he suffered both in body soule the punishmeÌ„t due vnto sinners They grauÌ„t that Christ suffered anguish in soule yet not properly in the soule but onely for the bodily death which was no part of the punishmeÌ„t of the soule which consisted in the very sense and feeling of Gods wrath and the torments of hell due vnto mankinde for their sinnes This punishment of the soule ought also necessarily to haue beene vndertaken by Christ being the redeemer both of body and soule THE FOVRTH PART WHETHER CHRIST descended in soule into hell to deliuer the Patriarkes The Papists THey doe beleeue that Christ according to his soule went downe to hell to error 101 deliuer the Patriarkes and all iust men there holden in bondage til his death Rhemist Act. 2. sect 12. Argum. 2. He that ascended is he that descended first into the lowest parts of the earth Ephes. 4.9 that is into hell the which is the lowest place in the earth Bellarm. cap. 12. Ans. 1. The earth it selfe is in respect of the world the lowest part so that here one parte of the earth is not to be compared with another but the whole earth in respect of the high heauens hath the name of the lower partes so is it taken Psal. 139. ver 15. Thou hast fashioned me beneath or in the lower partes of the earth But Dauid I trust they will not say was borne in hell because he speaketh of the lower partes of the earth consul Bez. in hunc locum So that by the descending of Christ into the lowest partes of the earth is meant nothing els but the lowest and extreamest degree
be in the hart of the earth is nothing els but to be within the earth according to the Hebrew phrase as Exod. 15.8 The hart of the Sea that is within the Sea So Christs body was in the earth it lay hid as it were in the bowels of the earth 3. This exposition is against themselues for if Christ went downe to the very hart and midst of the earth which is the center then he descended to the place of the damned for neither Limbus Patrum nor Purgatory are in the center or lowest part of the earth by their opinion but they themselues holde the coÌ„trary for they say that Christ by descending deliuered soules out of the two vppermost hels Limbus and Purgatory but not out of the nethermost hell which is the place of the damned Rhemist Luke 16. sect 8. Also it should follow of this their interpretation that the soule of Christ was as long in hell as his body in the graue which is against the opinion of many Papists Argum. 2. Luke 8.31 The Deuils desired Christ that he would not send them into the deepe what is that els but the lowest region of the earth where hell is which Saint Paul calleth the lowest partes of the earth Bellarmine Ans. We deny not but that God hath prepared and that there is a place of vnspeakable torments ordeined for the deuill and his angels and all damned soules but that this place should be in the center of the earth the places alleadged proue not for the word Abyssus translated the deepe is sometime taken figuratiuely in a metaphore as Rom. 11.33 O the deepenes of the wisedome of God the word is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 not much varying in signification from abyssus so the place of their punishment is saide to be a great depth that is a place of vnsearchable and vnspeakable miserie and horror Neither must this word abyssus of necessitie be referred to the earth for there are abyssi maris the depths of the Sea Exod. 15.8 as well as of the earth The lower places which S. Paul speaketh of Eph. 4. may be either vnderstood generally of the whole earth which is pars mundi infima the lowest part of the world or els of the great abasing of Christ from heauen to earth being God to become a seruant as also the graue of Christ was that lowest part of the earth for the Apostle saith in the comparatiue 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the lower not the lowest and so your vulgare Latine translateth inferiora not infima terrae but hel is the lowest part the graue is saide to be the lower The Protestants THat there is a locall place of torment prepared for the deuill and his angels we doubt not being so taught in the Scripture Math. 25.41 A place of darkenes 2. Pet. 2.4 Farre distant from the heauenly mansions of the blessed Luke 16.26 Neither doe we deny but that it may be in the earth or wheresoeuer els it pleaseth God but wheresoeuer hel is there is but one that deuision of hell into three or foure regions we vtterly condemne as a meere deuise of man without Scripture and this we say that the place of hell causeth not the torment but the wrath and curse of God for euen out of hel God may make a man to feele the torments of hell as we doubt not but our Sauiour Christ did for vs and our redemption vpon the crosse Argum. 1. It is possible to feele the paine of hell in the soule although not â—n the proper and appointed place of hell as Iob complaineth The arrowes of the Almightie are in me the venime thereof doth drinke vp my spirit and the terrors of God fight against me And therefore he saith his griefe was heauier then the sand of the Sea Iob. 6.4.14 Iob felt euen the hell of conscience in himselfe for the time yea our Sauiour bare the burthen of his fathers wrath vpon the Crosse as we haue shewed before Ergo it is not the place that maketh hell Argu. 2. Hell is nothing els as the Scripture defineth it but to be cast into vtter darkenes There shal be weeping and gnashing of teeth Math. 25.30.22.13 The darkenes causeth weeping horrible gnashing of teeth the vnspeakable punishment both of body and soule this darkenes is not the absence of the light of the sunne for neither shall the Saints in heauen haue that light because they neede it not Apoc. 22.5 And it shal be a place of darkenes to the damned angels which haue no vse of the Sunne light they also are reserued in chaines of darkenes Iude 6. as they are no materiall chaines so neither is it an outward darkenes but the absence of Gods fauour and the light of his countenance as the people are saide to haue sit in darkenes before the light of the gospell by the preaching of Iesus Christ did shine vnto them Math. 4.16 But they much more shal be and are kept in darkenes that are condemned to hell where they feele nothing but the horror of Gods wrath his eternall and endlesse curse with vnspeakable torments now in soule and afterward both in body soule without all comfort or hope of refreshing vtterly excluded from the presence of God wherefore it is not the place but the wrath of God and absence of his spirite that causeth such endlesse and vnspeakable punishment Argu. 3. As for your distinction of hell the brim whereof you say is Limbus patrum the middle parte Purgatory the lowest and nethermost hel it selfe the place of the damned in Augustines time it was not knowne for first that the bosome of Abraham was part of hell he vtterly denyeth Apparet non esse membruÌ„ inferorum tantae illius foelicitatis â—inum That bosome of so great blisse can be no meÌ„ber or part of hel Epist. 99. Again Purgatory he vtterly refuseth acknowledging but two places heauen for the faithfull hell for the damned and vnbeleeuers Tertium locum penitus ignoramus imo nec esse in scripturis sanctis inuenimus A third place we are vtterly ignorant of yea we finde in holy Scriptures that it is not August hypognost THE NINETEENTH CONTROVERSIE OF MATTERS WHICH ARE IN QVESTION concerning the diuine nature of Christ. THis controuersie containeth three Questions First whether Christ be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 God of him selfe Secondly whether he be mediator as God or man or as both Thirdly whether he haue by his desertes purchased any thing for himselfe THE FIRST PART WHETHER CHRIST be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 God of him selfe The Papistes error 103 THey deny that Christ is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 God of himselfe and affirme that he had not onely his person but his substance of his Father whereupon they are bolde to charge Caluine with blasphemy for saying that Christ is God of himselfe as well as the Father Rhemist Ioh. 1. sect 3. Argum. The word was with God to wit the sonne is with
lawfull for any to inuent allegories of scripture as it seemeth good to them selues THE SECOND PART OF THE SIXTH QVEtion to whom the chief authoritie to expound Scripture is committed The Papistes error 9 IT was decreed in the Councell of Trent that scripture should be expoūded as the Church expoundeth it and according to the common and consonant cōsent of the fathers Sect. 4. The Rhemistes say that the sense of the scriptures must be learned of the fathers and pastors of the Church Praefat. Sect. 18. If the fathers agree not the matter is referred to a generall Councell if there it be not determined we must haue recourse to the Pope and his Cardinals The Iesuite dare not referre the matter to the Pope alone to expound scripture but ioyneth the Colledge of Cardinals with him Bellarm. lib. 3. de script cap. 3. 1 They obiect that place Deut. 17.9 where the people are commaunded to resorte vnto the Priest or Iudge in doubtfull matters Ergo there ought to be a chief and supreme iudge in Ecclesiasticall matters Bellarm. We aunswere First here the ciuill Magistrate and the Iudge are ioyned together as ver 12. Wherefore if they will gather hereby that the Pope must be supreme Iudge in all Ecclesiasticall matters then the Emperour ought to be as well in ciuill Secōdly the text saith they shal come to the Priests ver 9. assigning many not to one onely Priest Thirdly they must iudge according to the law v. 11. not as they list thē selues Fourthly here is no mentiō made of doubts in interpreting scripture but of controuersies that may fall out betweene man and man either Ecclesiasticall to be decided by the Priest or ciuill by the Magistrate Fiftly we graunt that in euery country there ought be a supreme and high seate of iudgement for determining of controuersiall matters betweene men but it foloweth not that there should be a supreme iudge ouer the whole Church especially in such matters as this concerning the sense of the scriptures which i◠not commited to the iudgement of men neither is any such controuersie named in that palce ver 8. 2 Ecclesiastes 12.11 The wisemā cōpareth the wordes of the wise to nayles which are fastned geuen by one pastor Ergo the Pope is supreme iudge We aunswere the wise men are here vnderstood to be the Pastors and Ministers of Gods word but this one pastor signifieth neither the high Priest in the old law nor the Pope in the new but Iesus Christ the high shepheard for our soules What great boldnesse is this to attribute that to the Pope which is onely proper to Christ 3 They also picke out some places in the new Testament as Math. 16.19 to thee will I geue the keyes of the kingdome of heauen Christ saith so to Peter Ergo the Pope hath authoritie to expound scripture We aunswere First by the keyes here is meant commission to preach the Gospell not onely to expound doubtes Secōdly they were geuen to all the Apostles not to Peter onely Math. 28. v. 18.19 Thirdly the Pope is not successor of Peter no more then any other godly Bishop nor so much vnlesse he folow Peters steps So they abuse that place Math. 18.17 he that will not heare the Church c. Ergo the Bishops and chief pastors must expound the doubt in scriptures Aunswere First our Sauiour speaketh here of the discipline of the Church of correctiōs and admonitions not of interpreting scripture which dependeth not vpō the will fantacie of Pope Cardinals or Popish Councels but must be tryed by the scriptures them selues Secondly we must geue eare to the Church but with a double condition we must be sure it is the Church of God secōdly we must not heare them cōtrary to the scriptures but so long as they do teach the doctrine of Christ. The Protestants WE haue a more compendious way to come to the vnderstanding of the scripture It were to lōg whē we doubt of any place to stay till we haue the generall consent of the pastors of the Church or to expect a generall Councell or go vp to Rome And it were to much to trouble the Popes grauitie with euery questiō The Lord hath shewed vs a more easie and ready way see that we neede not ascend to heauen or cōpasse the earth or passe the Alpes but the word of God is amongest vs the scriptures them selues and the spirite of God opening our harts do teach vs how to vnderstand them the interpretation of Scripture is not assigned to any succession of pastors or tryed to any place or persons Our arguments folow some few of them 1 That onely hath power to geue the sense of Scripture which doth beget vs faith the spirite onely by the Scriptures begetteth faith Rom. 10.17 faith commeth of hearing the word Ergo the spirit of God is the onely interpreter of scripture The proposition also is cleare for seeing the Scripture is the true sense and meaning therof if any should geue the sense of the scripture but that which worketh faith then vpon him should our faith be grounded If the Pope therefore geue the sense of Scripture and our faith ariseth of the Scripture vnderstood then our faith is builded vpon the Popes sense argum Whitach 2. 9. 2 The Scriptures cā not be interpreted but by the same spirit wherewith they were writtē but that spirite is found no where but in the Scriptures Ergo. The first part the Papistes them selues graunt the second is thus proued the spirite of the Apostles is not geuen by secret inspiration that sauoureth of Anabaptisme where is it thē to be found whether is it like that S. Peters spirite should be found in the Popes chaire or in his Epistles or if they haue S. Peters spirite where is S. Paules found but in his writings Yet it is all one spirite appeareth not els where but in the Scriptures where euery man may finde it as wel as the Pope the spirituall man iudgeth all things 1. Cor. 2.15 you haue an oyntment from him that is holy and you haue knowen all things and ver 27. you need not that any mā teach you By these places it is euident that euery faithfull man by the spirite of God may vnderstand the scriptures 3 The doctrine of the Church must be examined by the Scriptures Ergo the scriptures are not to stand to the iudgement of the Church The former part is proued by the example of the Berrheans Act. 17.11 If they did well in examining Paules doctrine much more may the decrees of the Pope Church Coūcels be examined by the scriptures But they knew not whether Paule was an Apostle or not therefore they might examine his doctrine saith the Iesuite Answere it is no matter for the person of Paule they examined his doctrine which dependeth not vpon the person Secondly they could not be ignoraunt of his Apostleship who was famous throughout the Churches Thirdly they doubted onely whether Paul was an
Church Actes 15. when they came to Ierusalem they were receiued of the Church Philip. 3.6 Paule persecuted the Church how could the church be persecuted how could it receiue the Apostles if it were not visible Bellarmin cap. 12. We answere what goodly reasons here be a particular church such as was at Ierusalem may be seene Ergo the catholike and vniuersall Secondly a particular church may be sometime visible Ergo alwayes Thirdly the church is visible vnto the faithfull as in time of persecution for to Paule it was not knowen when he persecuted it but onely to the brethren Ergo it is visible to the world For these three points they must proue that the catholike church not a particular is visible that the Church is not sometime but alway visible yea and to the world or else they say nothing for shame masters make better arguments 3 He hath set his tabernacle in the sunne Psal. 19. The Church is as a Citie vpon an hill Math. 5. Ergo it is alwayes visible Bellarmin ibid. Rhemist Math. 5. Sect. 3. We answere First the Apostles them selues euen at this time when Christ spake these wordes vnto them were not so in sole or in monte in the sunne or vpon the hill that they were seene of the world nay they were not seene nor acknowledged of the Scribes and Pharisies in Iewrie the Church is seene of the faithfull it is visible to them that search for her out of the Scriptures they that caÌ„ see the mountaine shal see the Citie the mountaine is Christ the Citie is the Church No marueile if the Church be not alwayes visible to the world for they see not neither do they know Christ. Secondly the church is said to be on a hill because the truth seeketh no corners heretikes and false tâ—achers flye into the desert and into secret places Math. 24. ver 26. But the truth is not ashamed the Apostles confessed Christ eueÌ„ before Kings and Princes Marke 13.19 so Augustine expoundeth it Cont. Faustum lib. 13. cap. 13. The Protestantes COncerning the catholike church we hold that because it is an article of our faith it is alwayes vnto the world inuisible and not to be espyed but by the eyes of faith Fulk Math. 5. Sect. 5. Concerning particular churches if by visible they vnderstand that which may be seene so we graunt they are alwayes visible Fulk Act. 11. v. 24. If for that which is actually visible we say it is not so alwayes visible to the world nay it may sometimes be so hid and secret that the members know not one another Fulk in Math. 5. Sect. 3. 1 To the Hebrues it is thus written cap. 13. v. 18.23.24 you are not come to the mouÌ„taine which might be touched but to the Citie of the liuing God the celestiall Ierusalem c. Ergo the church is inuisible and here opposed to the visible hill of Sinay Bellarmine answereth that this is vnderstood of the triumphant church in heauen not of the militant vpon earth To this we make answere the Apostle vnderstandeth the whole vniuersall church in heauen and earth which both make but one familie Ephe. 3.15 for here he nameth not onely the spirites of iust men which are in heauen but the faithfull vpon earth whose names are written in heauen the congregatioÌ„ saith he of the first borne the wordes are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a gathering together collection or coÌ„gregation which must needes be vnderstood of men vpon earth Againe saith he ye are come not ye shall come they had now left the smoking mountaine Sinay and were come to Sion the church vnder the Gospell Wherefore this is a most firme and inuincible argument the catholike church is the vniuersall number of Gods chosen in heauen and in earth Ergo inuisible 2 We will giue an instance In the dayes of Elias the church was not visible for he camplaineth and saith that he was onely left alone 1. King 19.10 Ergo the church is not alway visible The Rhemistes answere First at that time the church was visible in Iudaea the souldiers were numbred to 1000. thousand 2. Chron. 17. We aunswere againe First belike they haue taken a more exact account of them then the Lord him selfe for he saith he had reserued 7000 1. King 19.18 that had not bowed their knees to Baall they say there were ten huÌ„dred thousand Againe Elias if he had knowen such a number could not haue bene left so comfortlesse as in grief of hart to desire to dye But be it graunted that the church was visible in Iudaea at this time though it were not so to Elias yet where was that visible church in the dayes of Achaz and Manasseh when Iudaea fell also to Idolatrie Thirdly to beleeue that there is an holy catholike church is an article of our faith Ergo it is inuisible Bellarmin answereth First the holinesse of the church is inuisible We reply so the church is partly visible partly inuisible by his confession First why theÌ„ do ye define the catholike church to be a visible coÌ„gregatioÌ„ if it be not wholly altogether visible they know that difinitio must coÌ„uenire definito the definitioÌ„ must agree wholly to that which is defined but now it is not for they say the catholike holy church is partly visible as it is a church partly inuisible as it is holy Secondly do we not say in the Creede Credo Catholicam as well as Credo Sanctam I beleeue a catholike church as well as I beleeue the holy church then it is also inuisible as it is catholike because this also is part of the article see I pray you what shifting is here Secondly he answereth that some thing is seene in the church some thing beleeued for we see that visible companie of men which make the church but whether that companie be the true church we do not see it but beleeue it We reply againe First the Iesuite hath not yet proued that some thing is seene in the church some thing beleeued but one thing is seene namely the congregation as they are men another thing is beleeued that they are the church the sight and beliefe now by his owne confession are not both in the church Secondly we denie that the vniuersall coÌ„panie of the catholike church which is the number of the predestinate can be seene therefore all is beleeued and nothing seene Thirdly he saith that by faith we know which is the true church Ergo by faith we know which are the members of the church Ergo by faith the meÌ„bers do know them selues to be of the Church therefore faith is requisite in the true members of the church theÌ„ vnfaithfull men can not be true members of the church which point the Iesuite strongly before maintained against vs. Mendacem oportet esse memorem a lyar had need haue a good memorie lest he tell contrarie tales and so hath the Iesuite here for before he denied
that faith was requisite to make a true member of the church here he saith that without faith a mēber cā not be knowen much lesse therfore made 3 The Rhemistes confesse in these very words that in the raigne of their imagined and supposed Antichrist the externall state of the Romane church and publike entercourse of the faithfull with the same shall cease and that there shal be onely a communion in hart with it and practise in secret Annot. in 2. Thess. 2. Sect. 10. Where then I pray you shal be your tabernaculum in sole ciuitas in monte candela splendens in domo your tabernacle in the sunne your Citie in a mountaine your candle shining in the house that is say you in the world Math. 5. Sect. 3. Ergo out of their owne wordes we conclude that the church shall not alwayes be visible and notoriously knowen in the world Lastly we will conclude with Augustine Aliquando in sola domo Noah Ecclesia erat in solo Abraham Ecclesia erat in solo Loth domo eius Ecclesia erat in solo Henoch Ecclesia erat Sometime the church was onely in Henochs house sometime onely in Noah some time in Abraham alone in Loth his house How then hath the church bene alwayes so visible and notoriously knowē to the world when it hath layen hidden some time in one house yea in one man THE SECOND QVESTION whether the Church may erre THis questiō is deuided into two parts First whether the catholike church may erre at all or not Secondly whether the visible church vpon earth may fall away from God into Idolatrie and apostasie THE FIRST PART WHETHER THE Catholike Church may erre in doctrine The Papistes THey do teach that the catholike church can not possiblie erre not onely in matters absolutely necessarie to saluation but not in any thing which error 16 it imposeth and commaundeth whether it be conteined in the word of God or not yea that it can not erre in these things which beside the word of God are commaunded And by the church here they do meane not onely the Pastors and Bishops but the whole companie of the faithfull so that neither that which all the pastors of the church do teach can be erronious nor what is receiued generally of the whole church Bellarm. de Eccles. lib. 3. cap. 14. Rhemist annot an Iohan. 14. ver 16. 1 The church say they is the pillar of truth 1. Tim. 3. Ergo it can not erre We answere First it is no otherwise the pillar of truth then a virgin without spot and wrincle Ephe. 5.27 As that place doth not priuiledge the church frō all sinne and imperfection of life so neither doth this place exempt her from all error in doctrine Secondly she is called the pillar of truth in respect of vs because the truth is preserued in the true church and is not els where to be found not because the truth dependeth vpon the church for S. Paule sendeth not Timothie in this place to learne of the church as though it could not possiblie be deceiued but saith he these things haue I written that thou mayst know how to behaue thy selfe in the house of God ver 14.15 Ergo the word of God is the rule of truth and the church hath no warrant to be kept from error but as she is lead and gouerned by the word of God Thirdly the argument foloweth not for Peter was a pillar and yet erred Gallat 2.9.11 2 They heape many arguments together The church hath the spirite of God to lead it into all truth the gates of hell shall not preuaile against it Math. 16. God hath geuen it Apostles teachers Euangelistes to keepe it in the truth Ephe. 4. Christ hath prayed for the church that it may be sanctified in the veritie Iohn 17. Christ prayed that Peters faith should not faile Ergo the church can not erre Rhemens annot 1. Timoth. 3.15 We answere euery one of the elect hath the spirite of God neither shall the gates of hell preuaile against the faith of any one of the elect to ouerthrow it Christ prayeth for euery one of his Disciples that they may be sanctified in the truth Iohn 17.20 wherefore it foloweth as well by these arguments that no one faithfull man can fall into error The pastors and teachers so long as they folow the Apostles doctrine may keepe the church from error but it is not gathered out of that place Ephe. 4. that the pastors if they swarue from Gods word can not erre Concerning Peter Christ prayed for him that his faith should not faile in that greeuous tentation which he fell into Secondly he prayed not for him as gouernour of the church but as he prayeth for euery faithfull man Iohn 17.23 Thirdly for all this prayer Peter erred Gallat 2. 3 This argument was vsed in the Councell of Basill the Church is without spot and wrincle Ephe. 5.27 Ergo without error We aunswere First S. Paule speaketh there of a glorious church such as it shal be in the kingdome of heauen not of the church as it is vpon earth so Reuel 7.14 The elders which sat round about the throne which are the Saintes in heauen were seene in long white robes which they had washed white in the bloud of the Lambe 2 It foloweth out of this place that the church is as well without sinne as free from error which the diuines in the Councell did also graunt But seeing by their owne confession euery member of the church being clothed in this mortall flesh sinneth how can the church be without sinne If the church consist of men and all men are sinners how is the church free If all the partes and members be sinnefull how is not the whole also polluted with sinne If all the partes of the body be sicke and diseased how can the whole be sound The church also is not ashamed to confesse her selfe to be blacke Cant. 1.5 she shal be made bewtifull and glorious without all spot blemish in the kingdome of God and euen now also is made righteous and iust before God through Christ not because she hath no sinne but because it is remitted and although some errors and imperfections remaine yet shall they be no hinderaunce to her saluation The Protestantes WE doubt not to say that the church of God may erre in some points not necessarie to saluation but can not fall cleane away from God into any dānable error Fulk annot in Ephe. 5. ver 29. That the church may erre as we say we do shew it thus and by the Church we vnderstand the whole companie and congregation the pastors with the people 1 When our Sauiour Christ suffred the church erred in faith Ergo it may erre the proposition is thus proued The church was either in the Scribes and Pharisies or els in the Apostles but both of them erred they in putting Christ to death the other in their incredulitie not beleeuing rightlie in the
resurrection of Christ. Bellarmine aunswereth first that the Pharisies were priuiledged not to erre onely till the cōming of Christ. We replie againe First after Christ was come they sate in Moses chaire and Christ biddeth they should be heard Math. 23.2 if they erred not afore neither could they now for they were not displaced out of Moses chaire but the truth is they neuer had any such priuiledge not to erre Secondly if the Pharisies were now prone to error then by our aduersaries owne confession they ceased to be the church Ergo the church was not now visible for in them it was not and the Apostles fled from Christ and shifted for them selues how could then the church be visible to the world Secondly the Iesuite aunswereth concerning the Apostles First the Apostles were not yet entred into their office and Bishoprike but onely appointed to it and therefore they might erre We replie againe First they were not onely appointed Apostles but partly already they had exercised their Apostleship for they were sent forth to preach the Gospell and had power and commission to worke miracles and heale diseases Math. 10 how then is not the Iesuite ashamed to say that they were not yet Pastors nor Apostles Secondly if the Pharisies erred and the Apostles erred then all the world was in error Ergo by their saying at this instant there was no church vpon the earth which is a great absurditie for the church erreth not they say Secondly saith the Iesuite the Apostles erred not in faith they were reproued for not beleeuing the resurrection which beliefe because they had not yet receiued they could not loose it We reply First though they had not erred in any materiall point yet if there were any error at all in them it is sufficient for our purpose that they erred it is manifest for they fled away from Christ. Secondly he excuseth them for their infidelitie concerning the resurrection because this faith they had not yet receiued But had not Christ I pray you often instructed them of this matter and if this were no such error in them then Christ was to sharpe in reprouing them for their infidelitie Thirdly it appeareth that they wholly were deceiued concerning the Messiah Luke 24.21 the two Disciples say they trusted that it had bene he that should haue deliuered Israell see then what weake aunswers these are did these felowes thinke that their gloses should not be examined or that their dreames should be taken for oracles 2 The church of the Iewes erred before our Sauiour Christes comming Ergo the true church may erre The proposition is proued In the time of the raigne of good kings they did offer sacrifice vpon hill altars but onely to the Lord which was an error 2. Kings 12.3.14.4 The feast of the Passeouer was not kept so precisely according to Gods word at any time before no not in the raigne of the best kings as it was in the 18. yeare of Iosias raigne 2. King 23.22 The feast of Tabernacles had not bene so solemnly and truly kept from the dayes of Iosua as it was in Nehemiahs time Nehem. 8.18 Ergo all this while the church of the Iewes erred somewhat in the externall worship of God Fulk Ephes. cap. 5. Sect. 4. 3 Augustine saith Quomodo erit Ecclesia in isto tempore perfecta sine macula ruga cuius mēbra non mendaciter confitentur se habere peccata How can the church be perfect in this life without spot or wrincle whose members do truly confesse that they are not without sinne Ergo the church sinneth and is imperfect and why not subiect to error But in the Councell of Basill it was denied as ye heard that the church could sinne THE SECOND PART WHETHER THE visible Church may fayle vpon the earth The Papistes error 17 THey hold that it is impossible that the visible church should vtterly fayle vpon the earth and fall from God but that there shall alwayes be a visible and knowen church vpon the earth hauing a perpetuall succession of Pastors and Doctors where the true worship of God shal be preserued and kept Bellarmin lib. 3. de Eccles. cap. 13. 1 These and such places of Scripture they stand vpon Math. 16. the gates of hell shall not preuaile against it Math. 28. I wil be with you to the end of the world Psal. 88. his throne shal be as the Sunne and endure as the Moone Ergo the visible church shall not fayle vpon earth Bellarmin We aunswere that these places must be vnderstood of the catholike and vniuersall church whereof we denie not but euery true particular church is a part This church is the spouse of Christ this church shall not perish this is the kingdome of Christ with this church will he alway be present to the end of the world we denie not but that the inuisible church shall continue vpon the earth so long as the world endureth Secondly those places are vnproperly vnderstood of the visible church for therein are both good and bad how thē can that be the spouse of Christ where there are many infidels and wicked ones which haue not espoused themselues vnto him how can it be called his kingdome whereas it is not of all acknowledged But in the true catholike church all and euery one are espoused to Christ all and euery one haue the kingdome of God within them as it is Luke 17. ver 21. 2 They do abuse that place of S. Paule Ephe. 4.11 he gaue some to be Apostles some Euangelistes some pastors and teachers for the gathering together of the Saints Ergo the church shall alwayes be visible till all the Saintes are gathered together Bellarmin cap. 13. Rhemistes Ephes. 4. Sect. 5. We aunswere this place proueth that the church hath neuer wanted pastors and teachers for the continuance of the truth neither shall euer be without them as the Lord said by the Prophet Isay. 59. ver 21. My spirite which is vpō thee my words which I haue put into thy mouth shall not depart out of thy mouth nor the mouth of thy seede for euer We therfore denie not but that in all ages yea in the most ignoraunt times of Poperie God raised vp faithfull teachers vnto his church although they were not mitred and croziard Bishops neither could shew any outward pompe or boast of any glorious successiō Such were Gulielmus de S. Amore Arnoldus de noua villa an 1240. Berengarius Ioachim Abbas in the time of Innocentius 3. Wikclef Bruto Swinderby Badby and others about anno 1400. with many which were not knowen to the world for the truth neuer in any age wanted witnesses By the continuance of the truth and right faith we gather that there haue bene alwayes faithfull teachers though not notorious to the world and shal be but who they were and where they liued what pompe what authoritie they were of it is not materiall to know wherefore an outward visible succession
scripture 1. Deut. 17.12 He that harkeneth not vnto the priest that man shal die But mark I pray you what goeth before v. 11. according to the law which they shal teach thee according to the iudgement which they shall tell thee shalt thou do see then here is no absolute iudicial power giuen to the priest but according to the law of God 2. The example of the Apostles Act. 15. is as fōdly alleadged where it was decreed saith the Iesuite that the Gētiles shuld not be burthened with ceremonies which saith hee was not determined by the scriptures but by the absolute suffrages of the Apostles Again their decrees were absolutely imposed vpon the Churches without any further examination of the Disciples Ergo we are now also absolutely bound to obey all decrees of Councels Bellar. de concil 1.18 We answere first it is false that this matter was determined without scripture for Iames alleadgeth scripture Peter thus reasoneth we beleeue through the grace of God to be saued as wel as they v. 11. therfore what need this yoke of ceremonies 2. Though there had been no scripture who seeth not that the spirit of God so ruled the Apostles that their writings and holy actions should serue for scripture vnto the ages following Thirdly the Disciples needed not to examine their decrees knowing that they were gouerned by the spirit as they themselues write It seemed good to vs and the holy Ghost yet we see the brethren of Bereae searched the scripture for the trueth of those things which the Apostles preached Act. 17.11 When they can proue such a plenarie power fulnes of the spirit in their pastors and Councels as was in the Apostles we wil also beleeue them The Protestantes WE doe firmly beleeue that neither the Church nor Councels haue any such absolute power to determine without the holy scriptures either beside or agaynst them or to binde other men to obey such decrees Neither that the true Church of God dare or will arrogate such power vnto it self But that Councels are ordayned for the discussing deciding of doubtful matters according to the scriptures and word written 1. If the Apostles preachings might bee examined according to scripture much more the acts of all other Bishops and pastors But that was lawful in the Disciples of Berea Act. 17.11 which are commended for it therefore called noble couragious Christians because of this their promptnes diligence in searching out of the truth Ergo. 2. All things necessarie to saluation to be beleeued are articles of our fayth but al such articles must be grounded vpon the word of God therfore nothing can be imposed as necessary to saluation without the word of God Wherefore it is a blasphemous saying of the papists that the Church may make new articles of fayth Rhemens annot in 1. Tim. 3. sect 9. and Eckius maintained the same poynt agaynst Luther in the disputation at Lipsia and brought forth a new article of faith agreed of in the Councel of Constance that it is de necessitate salutis of the necessitie of saluation to beleeue that the Pope is the head of the Church The fathers of Basile more modest then so concluding that it was an article of fayth to beleeue that Councels were aboue the Pope doe vse this reason those things say they which we alleadge for the superioritie of general Councels are gathered out of the sayings of our Sauiour Christ. Ergo we are al bound to obey them Therefore we conclude that the word of God only written is the rule of fayth and al things necessary to be beleeued Rom. 10.10 Fayth commeth by hearing and hearing by the word Councels are to explane and declare articles of faith not to establish new 3 Lastly we will heare Augustine speake Nec tu debes Ariminense neque ego Nicaenū tanquā praeiudicaturus proferre concilium scripturarum authoritatibus c. Neither must I alleadge the Nicen Councel nor you the Arimine I am neither bound to the one nor you to the other let the matter be tried by Scripture cont Maximu Arrianum lib. 3. cap. 14. By this fathers sentence therefore no man is bound of necessitie to be tyed to Councels but the Scripture onely is absolutely to be beleeued THE SEAVENTH QVESTION WHETHER Councels be aboue the Pope or not The Papists THis is a matter yet not fully determined amongst the Papists Neither are error 35 they all of one opinion In the Councell of Constance and Basile it was fully concluded that the Councell is aboue the Pope Gerson of Paris that was also present in the Councell of Constance and a great dooer against Iohn Hus stifly maintaineth the authoritie of Councels aboue the Pope Other Papists more fauorable to their new God amight say that the Pope is by right aboue the Councell but he may if he wil submit himselfe to the Councell But now commeth in the stoute Iesuite and saith with the rest of the schoolemen that the Pope hath such a soueraigntie aboue the Councell that he cannot be subiect to their sentence though hee would Bellar. de concil lib. 2.14 Yet hee is in a mammering with himselfe for saith he in periculo schismatis when there is a schisme and it is not knowne who is the true Pope in such a case the Councell is aboue the Pope Let vs examine some of his best reasons 1 Now commeth in a great blasphemie All the names saith the Iesuite that are giuen to Christ in the Scriptures as head of the Church are ascribed to the Pope as he is called fidelis dispensator Luc. 12. a faithfull steward in the Lords house pastor gregis Iohn 10. the shepheard of the flocke Caput corporis ecclesiae Ephes. 4. the head of his bodie the Church vir seu sponsus Ephes. 5. the husband or spouse of the Church all these titles saith he are due to the Pope Ergo he is aboue the Church and so consequently aboue generall Councels Bellar. de concil lib. 2.17 O Lord what great blasphemie is here to appropriate the titles of Christ to a mortall man But goe to Bellarmine and the rest of that packe fil vp the measure of iniquitie of your forefathers say with Pope Athanasius that the people of the world are the partes of his bodie with Cornelius the Bishop in the Councell of Trent the Pope being the light came into the world and men loued darkenes rather then light with Pope Calixtus in the Councell of Rhemes who when hee saw the Councell would not consent to excommunicate the Emperour impiously cried out that they had forsaken him as Christ was left of his Disciples with Innocentius the third that all things in Heauen and earth and vnder the earth doe bowe the knee vnto him with Otho no Pope but a Cardinall that sitting amongst his Bishops blasphemously applied to himselfe the vision of Ezechiel cap. 1. resembling the Bishops to the sower faced beasts himselfe vnto God that approched to the
sometime in Rome also tribuni plebis the officers for the people had the chiefe authoritie Now of all these in common-wealth matters the first kinde is the best and safest the Monarchical or princely gouernement The question now is whether the same forme ought to bee reteyned in Church-gouernement and in this question certaine things are to bee obserued First that wee haue not to deale in this place with that part of Ecclesiasticall regiment wherein the prince hath interest as in ordayning Ecclesiasticall Lawes and seeing to the execution thereof but the question is onely of that regiment Ecclesiasticall which is proper to the gouernors of the Church which consisteth in the ministerie of the word and Sacraments in ordaining and electing of Church-ministers in the dispensing of the keyes of the Church in the Ecclesiasticall censures and discipline and such like whether in the Church there ought to bee one chiefe Bishop from whom all other receiue this power in the premisses Secondly the question is not of the spirituall gouernement of Christ who is the chiefe Monarch and King of his Church but of the outward and externall regiment vpon earth Thirdly wee speake not of the state of any particular Church either nationall prouinciall or oppidall but of the generall state of the Church whether ouer all Churches there ought to be one chiefe Bishop These things premised wee come now to the question The Papists THat there ought to bee one chiefe Monarch and high Bishop ouer all the Church in all Ecclesiasticall matters for the deciding of controuersies preseruing the vnitie of the Church from whom all other Ecclesiasticall Ministers doe receiue their power and authoritie they thus would proue 1 The militant Church is in all things answerable and correspondent to the triumphant companie in Heauen as Heb. 8.5 Moses was bid to make all things according to the paterne shewed in the Mount But in heauen there is beside God himselfe a Monarch and chiefe commaunder of the Angels euen Michael the Archangel Reuel 12.7 Michael and his Angels fought Ergo it ought to be so vpon earth We answer First the Church vpon earth neither is nor can be altogether like to the celestiall congregation for there is no temple Reuel 21.22 There shall enter no vncleane thing and many such like differences there are We are bid to follow them in holines and obedience so farre wee must imitate the Angels as in the Lords prayer 3. Petit. As for imitation and conformitie in other things we haue no such commaundement we are promised hereafter to be like them but that is not yet Neither doth that place proue any such thing Heb. 8. For how followeth it Moses was shewed a paterne to make the Tabernacle by Ergo the Church hath a paterne of her gouernement from Heauen When they can shew any such paterne reuealed in the word for their dreames and phantasies we wil not beleeue for the Church as Moses had for the Tabernacle then they shall say somewhat 2 It is a vaine controuersie so to descant of the Angels as to appoynt them a Captaine and commaunder and to make nine orders or bands of them as our Rhemist annot 1. Ephes. vers 21. These are but their dreames they haue not a worde in Scripture for it And concerning Michael they are much deceiued for in that place Apocal. 12.7 Christ is called Michael Michael and his Angels fought against the Dragon And who I pray you is the chiefe Captaine of the Church against the diuell and his hoast but Christ And so is it expounded verse 10. Now is saluation in Heauen and the strength and Kingdome of our God and the power of his Christ Here hee is called Christ who before is Michael In other places also Michael is vnderstood to be Christ as Dan. 10.21 there is none that holdeth with mee but Michael your Prince here Michael is the prince of the Church and not of the Angels And that Michael is not the prince of the Angels as our aduersaries meane taking Michael for an Angell it is proued out of the 13. verse Michael one of the chiefe princes the Angels are all called princes and not one to bee prince aboue them Likewise the nature and signification of the word Michael agreeth hereunto for it is compounded of three hebrue particles as much as to say one that is equall vnto GOD which name in that sense cannot bee giuen vnto any creature Further Epistle Iud. 9. there is mention made of Michael the Archangell who stroue against the diuell and saide the Lord rebuke thee Sathan where the Apostle alludeth to that place of Zacher 3.2 where the very same words are found but there the prophet calleth him Iehouah that spake those words and here the Apostle calleth him Michael so that in this place it must needes bee vnderstoode for Christ. But to conclude we denie not but that Michael may bee the name of some glorious Angell but out of these places it cannot bee proued And againe we will not stand with them but that there may be degrees of excellencie amongst the Angels as there shall be amongst the Saints but that any one hath any such soueraigne and commaunding authoritie ouer the rest it is a curious and presumptuous surmise 2 The Church of the olde Testament was a figure of the Church vnder the New but they had a high Priest aboue the rest Ergo there ought to be now We answere First we graunt the high Priest was a figure but neither of Peter nor Pope but onely of Christ for in two things did the high Priest resemble Christ in offering of sacrifice so hath Christ offered vp himselfe Heb. 7.27 and in entring into the sanctuarie to make attonement for the people so Christ is entred into the Heauens to appeare in sight for vs before God as the apostle saith Heb. 9.24 I trow in neither of these the high priest could be a type either of Peter or Pope 2 Neither doth it follow because there was an high priest in one countrey therefore there ought to bee one ouer the Churches in al countries as the Iesuite frameth an other argument by a comparison because a bishop is ouer his diocesse a Metropolitane ouer his prouince there may bee as well a Pope ouer the whole Church For by the same reason because a Lorde may bee the chiefe in his seignorie a Duke in his prouince a Prince in his Kingdome therefore there ought to bee an Emperour ouer all the world or as Master Caluine saith because one fielde is committed to one Husbandman to dresse and to till therefore the whole Worlde may which were a thing impossible The Protestants THat there ought not to be any one chiefe Bishop Pope or prelate to exercise iurisdiction ouer the whole Church wee doe thus make it good 1 We acknowledge no head of the Church but Christ neither doth the Scripture attribute this title of Maiestie ouer the whole Church but onely to Christ. If
names of some other Apostles as Iames and Iohn were called Boanerges the sonnes of thunder Mark 3. Therefore this was no such preeminence to Peter neither is it true that Peter was almost called by no other name for he is oftē in the Gospel after this called by his old name Simon Mat. 16.17 17 25. Fulk Annot. in Ioh. 1. sec. 7. Secondly againe saith Bellarmine the text is aedificabo I will build my Church but if Christ be here taken for the rocke his Church was built alreadie for many beleeued in him But Peter was not made the foundation of his Church till afterward after his resurrection and therefore hee saith I will build Wee answere First it is a corrupt glosse to say the Church of Christ was not builded till after the resurrection for seeing that many beleeued before in Christ and made a Church either they must graunt that the Church was without a foundation or else that the foundation was changed from Christ to Peter Secondlie it is taken therefore for the enlarging and increasing of the Church of GOD. It followeth not because Christ saith I will build and his Church was begun to bee built alreadie that therefore another kinde of building must bee excogitate no more then because Christ gaue his spirite to the Apostles Matth. 10.1 and againe Iohn 20.22 and yet biddeth them stay at Ierusalem till they should receiue the holie Ghost Acts. 1.7 that therefore they should looke for another holy Ghost or as though they had not receiued the holy Ghost before But as the sending of the holy Ghost is meant for the increase and more plentifull measure thereof so is the building of the Church here taken for the increase of the building Wee yet further answere with Augustine super hanc petram quam confessus es aedificabo ecclesiam vppon this rocke which thou hast confessed will I build my Church so that in this place is meant not Peter to bee the rocke but either Christ whome he confessed or his saith whereby he confessed him which commeth all to one effect There is no great difference whether wee say the Church is builded vppon Christ or faith is the foundation of the Church for faith is an apprehension of Christ but of the person of Peter it can no more bee vnderstoode then of the rest of the Apostles who in some sence are called the foundation of the Church namely in respect of their holy Apostolick doctrine vpon the which the Church is built Ephes. 2.20 Bellarmine and the Iesuites denie not but here is relation also to the faith of Peter but faith considered in his person We answere if they meane Peters particular faith which was a proper adiunct to himselfe the vniuersall Church cannot be built vpon that faith seeing when Peter dyed his faith also as a proper accident to his person ceased if they vnderstand that generall faith whereby Peter in the name of all the rest made this confession then they all are as well made pillars and foundations of the Church as he because it was their generall confession Fulk annot in 16. Matth. sect 8. 3 Another place which our aduersaries mightely vrge are those words which follow verse 19. I will giue vnto thee the keyes of the Kingdome of Heauen whatsoeuer thou shalt binde in earth shal be bound in Heauen Ergo Peter had especiall iurisdiction giuen him more then any of the rest Bellarmine cap. 12. Wee answere First as Peter confessed in the name of all the rest so this power is geuen him not onelie for the rest as the Rhemists falslie charge vs that we make Peter a proctor for others but together with the rest Peters person must be excluded for immediately after he deserued for a certaine slip of his person to bee called Sathan it were an vnfit match the same person at the same time to be honoured with the glorious title of the rock of Christ and to sustaine so great a rebuke as to bee called Sathan Secondlie here is no more promised to Peter then vnto all the rest of the Apostles Matth. 18.18 They likewise haue authoritie giuen them to binde and loose and it is performed to them all alike Iohn 20.23 2 By the keyes here cannot be vnderstoode that large iurisdiction which the Papists dreame of as not onely the authoritie and chaire of doctrine iudgement knoweledge discretion betweene true and false doctrine all which we graunt together with Peter to haue been giuen to al the Apostles besides But say they hereby is signified the height of gouernement the power of making lawes of calling Councels and confirming them of ordeyning Bishops and Pastors finally to dispense the goods of the Church spirituall and temporall all this is added without ground neither had either Peter or any of the Apostles this ample authoritie no nor the Bishops of Rome for many hundred yeares after Christ. For this plenarie power of the keyes when they signifie a soueraigne and chiefe and surpassing power are so onely giuen vnto Christ and to no mortall creature He is saide to haue the keye of Dauid who openeth and no man shutteth who shutteth and no man openeth Apocalip 3.7 Fulk Annot. 16. Matth. sect 13. Lastly I will oppose the iudgement of the Fathers of the Church who alleadge out of Augustine that Peter receiued the keyes for the whole Church and out of Ambrose that when Christ said to Peter pasce oues the blessed Apostle toke not charge of them alone saith he but together with vs and we together with him Fax pag. 675. 4 Other arguments they alleadge for the primacie and preeminence of Peter as Matthew 10. Hee is named in the first place Bellarmine cap. 18. Wee answere this mought bee because Peter was the most auncient in yeeres or one of the first that was called But howsoeuer it was it is no great matter for this order is not alwaie kept as Galath 2. Paul nameth Iames first Iames Cephas Iohn saith hee verse 9. the Iesuits best shift is heere to denie the text saying it should bee read Cephas Iames Iohn vnlesse Iames bee named first because he was Bishop of Ierusalem Marke I pray you Ergo at Ierusalem Peter was not before Iames but next vnto him therfore not prince of the Apostles Bellarm. cap. 18. Againe say they Peter standeth vp in the election of Matthias Acts 1. preacheth the first Sermon Acts 2. Acts. 15. Peter speaketh first Wee answere to the first Wee denie not a primacie of order to haue been in Peter but it followeth not that hee which speaketh first or giueth the first voyce should bee the head and commaunder of the rest to the second wee also graunt that Peter in zeale promptnes and forwardnes was not behinde any of the Apostles but euen with the first for in him was that saying of Christ verified vppon the woman Shee loued much because much was forgiuen her Luk 7 So was it with Peter to whome Christ forgaue much
would keepe the common and knowne name of the place that it might be out of doubt what Church he ment as for the name of Babylon to be ascribed to Rome though it were so mysticallie yet was it not so called for why might not Paule as well haue written his Epistle to the Romanes vnder that name the Church of Babylon as Peter wrote from thence 2 Agayne they alleadge that storie how Peter ouercame Simon Magus at Rome when he would haue taken his flight into the ayre hauing made himselfe wings and by the prayer of Peter was brought downe agayne and brake his legges and so dyed whereupon Nero being offended with Peter would haue apprehended him who being counsailed by the Church would haue fled from Rome but meeting Christ at one of the gates and saying vnto him whether goest thou Lord And he answered I come agayne to be crucified Peter vpon those words returned backe agayne and was crucified for the testimonie of Iesus Bellarm. cap. 2.3 We answere First we denye not that Peter was at Rome but shewe only the insufficiencie of their arguments and agayne we moue such doubts as by them are yet vnanswered as afterward shall be shewed Secondly concerning this storie of the victorie ouer Simon Magus they that doubt of Peters being at Rome may also doubt of this neither of them being necessarie to be beleeued as articles of faith but probable and coniecturall as matters of storie For some part of the storie is denyed by Augustine as how Peter fasted vpon the Saturday the combat betweene him and Simon Magus following vpon the Lords day after and thereupon rose the custome of the Saturday fast among the Romanes Est quidem saith he haec opinio plurimorum quamuis eam perhibeant esse falsam plerique Romani This is saith he a probable opinion of many concerning Peters fast yet the Romanes themselues thinke it to be false 3 That concerning Christs apparition to Peter seemeth to bee most vnlike of all and sauoureth somewhat of the Popish Legends Like vnto this are the tales of S. Christopher how he caried Christ and how S. Gregorie had him for one of his ghests at his table of hospitalitie such visions and apparitions of Christ are contrarie to the scriptures which say that the heauens must conteyne him till his comming agayne Bellarmine answereth first by this meanes wee doe compedes Christo inijcere wee fetter Christ in heauen We answere belike then heauen is a prison with the Iesuite God send all that are his such a prison at the length Agayne Christ is no otherwise concluded and shut vp in heauen then as it pleaseth himselfe and as he hath appoynted so to be 2 He obiecteth that Christ appeared neere vnto the earth to Paule We answere First there is no such thing proued out of the text but rather the contrarie that the voyce was heard from heauen not neere the earth but aboue Act. 22.6 Secondly Paule heard a voyce onely he sawe no man neither he nor the companie with him Act. 9.7 8. But onely a great light they sawe shining from heauen Act. 22.6 9. Therefore out of this place they cannot prooue any such real apparition of Christ. 3 Peter dyed at Rome his sepulchre is to be seene there to this day Ergo he was at Rome Bellarm. cap. 3. We answere First it followeth not if Peter were buried at Rome that therefore he dyed there for the translation of the bones and bodies of Martyrs is no vnusuall thing in your Church As it followeth not because Iohn Baptists head as you say is to be seene at S. Siluesters at Rome that therefore he dyed there so neither doth it followe of S. Peter 2 Agayne how shall wee beleeue you that it is S. Peters Sepulchre which is shewed at Rome seeing you haue made so many mockeries alreadie making the world beleeue that Peters bodie is sometime in one place sometime in an other Half his bodie you say is at S. Peters in Rome halfe at S. Paules his head at S. Iohn Laterane his neather iawe with the beard at Poicters in France many of his bones at Trieirs at Geneua part of his brayne You see that we may as well doubt whether Peters bodie bee at Rome as in any of these places And such as you see are our aduersaries arguments for Peters being at Rome The Protestants COncerning Peters being at Rome First wee doe not vtterly denye it but onely affirme that he could not come thither so soone as in the second yeare of Claudius and sit there so long namely fiue and twentie yeares as they hold Secondly it may bee graunted that he was there as a matter of storie not an article of faith Thirdly wee haue certayne doubts and arguments about some circumstances of his being there which our aduersaries are not able to answere 1 There is great disagreeing amongst the writers concerning the time of Peters comming to Rome Orosius sayth hee came thither in the beginning of Claudius raigne Hierome saith the 2. yeare of his raigne other say the fourth yeare other the thirteenth yeare Damasus would haue him come thither in Nero his raigne This dissention of writers sheweth that the matter may be iustly doubted of Fulk in Rom. 16. sect 4. Bellarmine and the Iesuites answere No more doe all agree concerning the time when the world was created nor for the storie of Christs life in what time euery thing was done when he suffered and such like yet it followeth not that those things were not true because there is some diuersitie about the time Rhemist 1. Pet. 5.13 Wee replie First most of these things concerning the chronologie of scripture though it be not necessarie to saluation yet by diligent search may be found in scripture Secondly if they can shewe any scripture for Peters being at Rome as we haue for the other stories we will beleeue it though the time perfectly be not knowne but seeing the scripture maketh no mention at all of his being there and the time is vncertayne we may worthilie doubt of it much lesse are bound necessarilie to beleeue it 2 The storie of Peters comming to Rome in the second yeare of Claudius his abiding at Rome fiue twentie yeres his death and martyrdome in the 14. yere of Nero and the 37. yeare after Christs ascension we proue out of the scriptures to bee false For Peter was at Ierusalem and in those quarters round about till 18. yeares after Christ for Paul sawe him there 3. yeares after his calling and agayne 14. yeares after that Galath 2. there is 17. yeares and one yeare was past before Pauls conuersion in all 18. yeares adde vnto these the 25. yeares of Peters being at Rome that maketh 43. yeares and so Peter should suffer in Vespasianus raigne and not in the time of Nero. Bellarmine and the Iesuites answere that Peter was at Rome seauen yeares before the Councel held at Ierusalem Act. 15. which was in the 18.
shewe of reason can our aduersaries haue to make them proper to the Bishop of Rome 2 The second name is prince of Priests or high and chiefe Bishop which title if it be taken for a chiefe power dominion and soueraigntie is proper only to Christ the chiefe shepheard 1. Pet. 5.4 and cannot in that sense agree to any man If it bee vsed onely as a title of excellencie and commendation so was it in times past ascribed to other excellent and famous Bishops as Ruffinus lib. 2. cap. 26. calleth Athanasius Pontificem maximum chiefe Bishop yea it was in common giuen to all Bishops as Anacletus Bishop of Rome in his second Epistle writeth thus Summi sacerdotes id est Episcopi a deo iudicandi sunt The high Priests that is Bishops saith he are to bee iudged of God If it be taken further for the excellencie of the ministerie of the Gospell and the worthie calling of Christians in this sense the title of summum sacerdotium of the high Priesthood is attributed to all ministers Ecclesiasticall both Bishops and others so Fabianus Bishop of Rome vseth this name Yea the holy Apostle calleth all the people of God 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a princely royall or chiefe priesthood Ergo the Bishop of Rome hath no especiall or proper interest in this name 3 The third name is to bee called the Vicar of Christ vpon earth Where we are to vnderstand that in respect of the spirituall regiment and kingdome of Christ he needeth no Vicegerent vpon earth for I am with you saith he to the end of the world he himselfe is alway present in power and needeth not in that respect that any man should supplie his roume Petrus scriba martyr Fox pag. 906. If we doe take it for a word of office and publike administration so the Magistrate may bee called the Vicar of Christ in gouerning the people according to the word of God In which sense Eleutherius Bishop of Rome writing to Lucius King of the Britaines calleth him the Vicar of Christ and therfore in his owne kingdome had power out of the word of God to establish lawes for the gouernment of the people So all Bishops Pastors and Ministers in ancient time were called the Vicars of Christ in preaching praying binding and loosing in the name and power of Christ. So Augustine saith or whose worke els it is that Omnis antistes est Christi vicarius Euery pastor and prelate and not the Pope onely is the Vicar of Christ. And this is confessed by our Rhemists annot in 2. Cor. 5.18 that the Bishops and priests of the Church are for Christ and as his ministers that is his Vicars Nay Augustine maketh yet a more generall vse of this word he saith that Homo imperium Dei habens quasi vicarius eius est That man by creation being made Lord of the creatures doth therein represent God and is as his Vicar vpon earth So then all ministers are the Vicars of Christ the ciuill Magistrate likewise in some good sense may bee so called yea in respect of the creatures man generallie is vpon earth in Gods steade Ergo this name cannot be appropriate to the Pope of Rome 4 It is also too huge a name for the Pope or any mortall man to beare to be called the head of the vniuersall Church this is a name only due vnto Christ neither doe the scriptures acknowledge any other head but him Ephes. 1.22.4.15 But say they wee doe not make the Pope such an head as Christ is but only a ministeriall head ouer the militant Church vpon earth We answere First Ergo the Pope by your owne confession is not head of the vniuersall Church whereof the triumphant Church in heauen is a part Secondly the Rhemists confesse that the Church in no sense can bee called the bodie of the Pope Ergo the Pope cannot be any wayes the head of the vniuersall Church Annot. in 1. Ephes. 22. Thirdly the Fathers of Basile vsed this argument The head of the bodie being dead the whole bodie also dyeth but the whole Church doth not perish with the Pope Ergo he is not properly the head of the Church Fox pag. 675. If it shall bee further obiected that the Bishop of Rome hath been called in times past caput Episcoporum the head of all other Bishops we answere that it was but a title of excellencie and commendation not of dominion and power as London is called the head or chiefe citie of England yet are not other cities of the land subiect vnto it or vnder the iurisdiction thereof But we shall haue occasion more fully to discusse this matter afterward 5 They would haue the Pope called the Prelate of the Apostolike See the Rhemists say further that the Papall dignitie is a continuall Apostleship Annot. 4. Ephes. sect 4. We answere First if they call those Churches Apostolicall whose first founders were the Apostles then the See of Antioch Alexandria Constantinople are as well Apostolicall as Rome and this the Iesuite denyeth not Lib. 2. de pontific cap. 31. Secondly those Churches are Apostolicall which hold the Apostolike faith so is not the See of Rome Apostolicall being departed and gone backe from the ancient Catholike faith but those Churches where the Gospell of Iesus Christ is truely preached are indeede Apostolike Thirdly how can the Pope be an Apostle or haue Apostolike authoritie seeing hee preacheth not at all much lesse to the whole world wherein consisted the office of an Apostle Neither can he shewe his immediate calling from Christ as all the Apostles could for seeing he challengeth the Apostolike office by tradition from S. Peter and not by commandement from Christ he can in no wise be counted an Apostle or his office an Apostleship for the Apostles ordayned onely Euangelists and Pastors they had not authoritie to consecrate and constitute new Apostles Our aduersaries for this their Apostleship can finde nothing in scripture nor for a thousand yeeres after Christ in the ancient writers Fulk annot in Ephes. 4. sect 4. 6 Concerning the title of vniuersall Bishop it was thus decreed in the sixt Councel of Carthage as it is alleadged by Gratian Vniuersalis autem nec Romanus pontifex appelletur No not the Bishop of Rome is to be called vniuersall In Gregorie the first his time Iohn Patriarke of Constantinople obtayned of the Emperour Mauritius to be called vniuersall Patriarke but Gregorie would not agree thereunto calling him the forerunner of Antichrist that would challenge so proude a name Bellarmine and other of that sect doe answere that Gregorie found fault with this title because Iohn of Constantinople would haue been Bishop alone and none other to bee beside him but all other onely to bee his deputies and vicars To this wee replie First Iohn did onely challenge a superioritie ouer other Bishops not to be Bishop alone for this had been a thing impossible Secondly if Iohn had sought any such thing
from heauen Sic Bullinger serm 60. in Apocalips Thirdly the Dragon is sayd Apocalips 12.4 with his tayle to drawe many starres from heauen that is many excellent men as starres in giftes and knowledge shall bee deceiued by the Pope and be wonne vnto him yea the Pope himselfe is a Starre fallen from heauen to the earth from heauenly doctrine to earthly tradition Apocalips 9.1 thus Antichrist also may be sayd to fetch fire from heauen 2. The second miracle hee shall cause the Image of the beast to speake which the Iesuite vnderstandeth literally that is grossely Answere First Bellarmine and our Iesuites doe not here agree for Bellarmine sayth that these two miracles shall be wrought by Antichrist himselfe to fetch fire from heauen and to cause the Image to speake But the Rhemists saye this other beast is another false Prophet inferiour to Antichrist which shall also worke wonders such an one as Caluine say they where they shew their malice more then learning for Caluine they know tooke not vpon him to worke myracles annot Apocal. 13. sect 3. 2 This causing the image to speake hath a better meaning The image of the beast is the shadow of the olde stately Empire of Rome which was erected by the Pope for the west partes wanted an Emperour the space of three hundred yeeres from Augustulus time till Pope Leo the third who made Charles the great king of France Emperour And at this day is there nothing in the Empire but onely a name title and image for neither hath the Emperour the Imperiall authoritie which is in the Pope nor the Imperiall kingdomes vnlesse he haue them of his owne And the Pope onely maketh this Image to speake for vnlesse he doe confirme the election of the king of the Romanes he is not thought worthy the name of Emperour Bullinger ibid. 3 And yet we denie not but that they both haue and may make images speake either by the helpe of the diuell as Dunstane caused a roode to speake or by iugling as the Roode of grace by gimmals was made to roule the eyes mooue the lippes and such like in king Henries dayes 3 The third myracle that Antichrist shall work is to fayne himselfe dead and to rise againe Apocalyps 13.3 Answere There can bee no such thing gathered out of the text First the wordes will not beare it the text is that one of the heads was wounded to death and the wound was healed which cannot be so meant as though hee fayned himselfe dead but he receiued a wound indeede 2 The sence is mysticall as thorough the whole chapter First it is sayd that the seuenth head was wounded to death but reuiued agayne that is the seuenth gouernement of the Romanes in the Popedome for the papacie had many times deadly blowes and yet was healed agayne especially when there were three Popes together at Rome in France and the third in Spaine but this wound was cunningly healed vp in Pope Martin the fift in the Councell of Constance the other three beeing deposed Sic Bullinger Serm. 59. Secondly it is said vers 14. that the beast whose image remained had the wound of a sworde and yet liued which is vnderstoode of the Romane Empire reuiued and quickned by the Pope The Protestants IT is true that Antichrist shall worke signes and wonders by the power of Sathan 2. Thessal 2. but lying signes both because they shall bee done to confirme lyes neither shall they bee such as the Prophets wrought but many of them but cunning and cousening sleights of iuglers And for such wonders wee neede not to search farre the Popish Church is full of them Where else then should wee looke for Antichrist 1 There haue beene of the Popes themselues Sorcerers and Coniurers such an one Antichrist shall bee sayth Bellarmine Siluester the second came vp to the papacie by the helpe of the diuell as wee haue before shewed Gregorie the seuenth was condemned in the Councell of Brixia for a Coniurer And Benno a Cardinall in those dayes thus writeth of him that on a time hee sending two of his seruants for a certaine Sathanicall booke charging them not to looke into it they notwithstanding looked into it and presently a great multitude of diuelish spirites were round about them who were instant vpon them to knowe why they were called for the seruants beeing at the first astonished yet comming to themselues enioyned them to plucke downe certayne high walles neere to Rome and so they came to their master Fox page 176. What other Antichrist now neede wee looke for If hee must bee a Coniurer wee may heere make our choyce 2 Wee are not ignorant what lyes and fables are reported by the papists of the myraculous actes of their popish Saints of the which wee haue spoken before As howe Dunstane appeared to a cripple that came to his Tombe to bee helped of his lamenesse How Plegildus a priest sawe and handled the shape of a childe vpon the altaâ— which after hee had kissed returned agayne to the likenesse of bread How a certaine Iewes boy tolde his father that hee saw a childe broken in peeces vpon the altar and distributed among the Christians and the boy for that was cast into a furnace of fire and was preserued from the fire by the Virgin Marie which appeared to him and spred her garment ouer him Many such either lyes and fables or workes of diuels the popish Church hath many What neede wee therefore doubt but that it is the Antichristian Church 3 Augustine sayth Saint Paul calleth them lying wonders either because Antichrist shall deceiue men per phantasmata with iugling sleights or because ad mendacia per trahet credituros by his wonders he shall make them beleeue lies But in which sense they are so called it shall appeare when Antichrist is come sayth hee and indeede it is now apparant for our aduersaries haue plenty of both kindes both myracles wrought indeede by the diuell and many prety iugling feates beside THE EIGHTH PARTE OF THE QVEstion concerning the warres and kingdome of Antichrist The Papists BEllarmine sayth that Antichrist shall make great battayles agaynst the error 64 Saynts and shall conquere the whole worlde first by crafte he shall aspire to the kingdome of the Iewes secondly he shall fight with three kings of Lybia Aegypt Aethiopia Thirdly with a great armie he shall persecute the Christians throughout the world and this shall be the battaile of Gog and Magog Bellarm. cap. 16. 1 That he shall craftily aspire to the kingdome he proueth it out of Daniel 11.21 where it is prophecied of one that he shall obtayne the kingdome by flatteries Ans. This prophecie of Daniel as likewise the whole chapter was historically accomplished in Antiochus Epiphanes who defrauded Seleucus his brothers sonne of the kingdome and circumuented his elder brother Demetrius so that it being once fulfilled it cannot be wrested to any other sense of Antichrist it cannot be
world part 8. Which cannot agree to the Pope Ergo he is not Antichrist Answere To these eight arguments we haue before answered seuerally shewing how fabulous ridiculous and impossible our aduersaries assertions are without ground of scripture shewe of reason or colour of argument Wherefore we will not trouble the reader with needlesse repetitions desiring him to haue recourse to that which hath been alreadie sayd The Protestants THat the Pope of Rome is very Antichrist and that all the qualities and properties which the scripture describeth Antichrist by doe fitly agree vnto his person and that we are not therefore to expect or looke for any other Antichrist Thus by testimonie of scripture and sufficient reasons deduced out of the same we trust it shall appeare to all men 1 The first place of scripture is Daniel 11. where many notes and markes are declared proper to Antichrist yet especiallie set foorth to describe Antiochus Epiphanes who might be very well a type and figure of Antichrist who was then to come 1 vers 36. It is sayd He shall doe what him listeth This is most true of the Pope his will must stande for reason Distinct. 96. cap. satis If the Pope should drawe infinite soules to hell no man is to say vnto him Sir why doe you so Distinct. 40 Heere Bellarmine hath but this poore shift to say that it is meant onely of publike iudgement that no man is by authoritie to call the Pope to account but yet a brotherly admonition may bee vsed But who seeth not that the words are generall Nemo debet ei dicere No man ought to say vnto him neither Iudge nor other 2 Hee shall magnifie himselfe agaynst GOD and speake blasphemous things agaynst GOD hath not the Pope done so Of him it is sayd that GOD and the Pope haue but one Consistorie I am able to doe almost all that GOD can doe Fox pag. 785. articl 192. I am aboue all and in all Hostiens Nay that Dominion and Lordship which Christ had in earth but habitu in habite the Pope hath actu in act and in deede Agayne as we reade the earth is the Lordes and the fulnesse thereof and as Christ sayth all power is giuen mee in heauen and in earth so is it to bee affirmed that the Vicar of Christ hath power on things celestiall terrestriall infernall apud Fox pag. 791. col 1. Now let the discreet reader iudge whether this fellowe doe not magnifie himselfe and speake blasphemously agaynst God 3 Hee shall prosper till the wrath bee accomplished So hath the Pope had but too good successe hee hath subdued Emperours and made them his seruants trode vpon their neckes made them serue at his table crowned them with his feete made them hold his stirrup and leade his horse by the bridle But wee doe hope that his date is out and that hee shall prosper no longer 4 vers 37. He shall not care for the God of his fathers No more doth the Pope for he hath inuented and erected a newe breaden god which he worshippeth hangeth vp in Churches carrieth about in procession being but a peece of bread This breaden god a might his forefathers neuer knew 5 Hee shall not care for the desires of women So hee prohibiteth lawfull marriage permitteth adulteries and the vnnaturall lust of Sodomites Bellarmine first denyeth the text which is faithfully translated according to the Hebrew Secondly he sayth the place is meant literally and properly of Antiochus who was giuen to the pleasures of women Answere First if it be meant literallie of Antiochus then can it not be meant literallie of your Antichrist If Antiochus be but a type of Antichrist then can you not necessarilie conclude out of this place for types prooue not vnlesse they be diuine that is appoynted of God to be types which you can not shewe for this place see then the best arguments that you haue for your Antichrist out of the prophecies of Daniel and Ezechiel are proued nothing worth Secondly as Antiochus was giuen to vnlawfull desires of women so is the Pope yet might he be an enemie to chast and holy marriage and so is the Pope And by the way let it bee noted that the Iesuite picketh quarrels with scripture and maketh it false for the text sayth He that is Antiochus shall not care for the desires of women Yes sayth the Iesuite he shall be giuen to the pleasures of women cleane contrarie to the text Bellarm. cap. 21. 6 vers 38. He shall honor his god Mauzzim that is a god of power and riches with gold siluer precious stones Both of these are most true of the popish religion for their god hath brought them great riches lands treasure possession by their idolatrous Masses they haue greatly enriched themselues wherein their breaden god playeth the chiefe part and therefore they doe worship him agayne with gold siluer precious stones what rich Corporals and Altar-clothes Copes Vestiments of veluet silke wrought with gold are seene in their Churches what gilding of Roodes and Roodlofts garnishing of Idols what rich Crucifixes of siluer of gold beset with pearle and precious stones This description therefore of Daniel as you see doth in euery respect agree with the conditions and properties of Antichrist of Rome Argument Illyrici Secondly Saint Paules description in euery poynt also is verified in the Pope First He shall exalt himselfe aboue God and all that is called God 2. Thess. 2.4 So the Pope challengeth the full authoritie of Christ as wee haue shewed before and exalteth himselfe aboue Emperours which are called gods vpon earth yea they haue taken the iust proportion of inequalitie betweene the Pope and Emperour for the Pope is 47. degrees aboue the Emperour as the Sunne is 47. degrees bigger then the Moone Innocent 3. in decretalib 2 He shall sit in the temple that is in the Church so the Pope nameth himselfe head of the Church and hath the keyes as he braggeth both of heauen and hell Therefore the Turke cannot bee that Antichrist because he is out of the Church and so in truth is the Pope but yet he challengeth to him and his the name of the Church 3 The mysterie wrought in Paules time and afterward encreased so not long after the Apostles time the Bishops of Rome began to lift vp their heads aboue other Churches as Zozimus falsified the Councel of Nice and sent to the 6. Councel of Carthage to haue it there confirmed that it might be lawfull to send vp appeales to Rome 4 Antichrist shall come with lying signes So hath the Pope done as experience proueth and we haue shewed before 5 vers 11. God shall send strong delusions that they shall beleeue lyes And in time of Poperie men indeede were so strongly deluded that the father persecuted the sonne the sonnes set fire to their father yea the husband was made a witnesse agaynst the wife the wife agaynst her husband and seruants accused their masters These things are
so well knowne in stories that I neede not come to particulars 6 Antichrist is called a wicked man and a man of sinne vers 3.8 And where shall you finde more wicked men then among the Popes Siluester the 2. gaue his soule to the diuell to obtayne the Papacie Fox pag. 167. Benno reporteth of Hildebrand that he poysoned sixe Popes to come to the Popedome Pope Stephen and Sergius tooke vp the bodie of Formosus and mangled it cutting off his head and fingers and so cast it into Tibris Fox pag. 120. We haue heard before what a holy Father Pope Iohn the 13. was he lay with his owne sister and with his fathers Concubines playing at dice called for the diuell was slayne in adulterie And was it not I pray you a common prouerbe in England He that goeth to Rome once seeth a wicked man he that goeth twise learneth to know him he that goeth the third time bringeth him home with him Fox pag. 841. argument Illyrici The third place we doe take out of the Apocalyps chap. 9. where is a playne storie set downe of the Pope 1 vers 1. He is a starre fallen from heauen he is departed from the ancient faith of Rome to superstition and idolatrie 2 He hath the key of the bottomlesse pit who giueth the crosse keyes in his armes but the Pope who sayth hee may euacuate all Purgatorie at once if hee will but he Who sayth he may Pleno iure currus animarum plenos secum ad tartara detrudere by full right carrie downe to hell with him charriots Ioden with soules cap. si Papa distinct 42. Is not this the Pope who then more fitly may be sayd to haue the key of the bottomlesse pit 3 There arise out of the bottomlesse pit a great flocke of Locusts that is the innumerable sort of begging Friers for they are in euery respect described First compared to Locusts for their number vers 3. There were an 100. diuers sorts of Friers Fox pag. 260. Secondly they had power giuen them for fiue moneths that is as Walter Brute expoundeth it taking a moneth for thirtie dayes a day for a yeere as it is prophetically taken an 150. yeeres for so long it was from the beginning of the Friers vnder Innocent the 3. anno 1212. to the time of Armachanus who preached disputed and wrote agaynst the Friers about anno 1360. Fox pag. 414. Thirdly they shall sting like Scorpions not slay all at once but venome and poyson the conscience with the sting of their pestilent doctrine Fourthly other parts also of the description agree as vers 7. They are as horses prepared to battaile that is stoute ambitious their haire as the haire of women that is they shall be effeminate and giuen to the lusts of the flesh their teeth as the teeth of Lions they by valiant begging shall deuoure the portions of the poore as it was well proued in King Henry the 8. dayes in the Supplication of beggars that the summe of the Friers almes came to a great summe in the yeere for the fiue orders of Friers had a penie a quarter for euery one of euery housholder throughout England that is for them all twentie pence by the yeere suppose that there be but ten housholds in euery towne and let there be twentie thousand parishes and townes in England it will not want much of twentie thousand pound Thus had they Lions teeth that is consuming and deuouring Lastly they haue a King vers 11. whose name is Abaddon a destroyer for the Pope their chiefe prince and patron hath by his Antichristian doctrine layd wast the Church of God Argument Chytraei The fourth place of scripture wee will take out of the 17. of the Apocalyps there the seate of Antichrist is described First vers 5. It is called Babylon the citie which raigneth ouer the Kings of the earth vers 18. This can be no other but Rome which then had the Empire of the whole world Secondly It is the citie built vpon seuen hils or mountaynes vers 9. that is no other but Rome Thirdly the whore which is Antichrist shall sit vpon the beast with seuen heads and ten hornes that is shall succeede in the Empire and haue the authoritie thereof so hath the Pope Fourthly the ten hornes that is the Kings of the earth shal giue their authoritie to the beast but afterward shall deuoure her flesh Euen so the Kings of the earth by their sword maintayned the authoritie of the Pope But now being taught by the Gospell they are made the Lords free men and begin to subdue their neckes from his yoke The fift place is 1. Iohn 2.22 Who is a lyar but he that denyeth that Iesus is Christ the same is Antichrist that denyeth the father and the sonne Euen so the Pope of Rome though not openly and apertly yet closely and subtilly is an enemie vnto the whole trinitie He exalteth himselfe aboue God the father because he taketh vpon him to dispense not onely agaynst the lawe of nature but agaynst the lawe of God the morall law and agaynst the precepts both of the old and new testament but a lawe cannot be dispensed withall but by the same authoritie or greater Agaynst Iesus Christ he exalteth himselfe and all his offices he denyeth him to be the onely Prophet saying the scriptures are vnperfect and that their traditions are also necessarie to saluation Agayne he maketh other bookes scripture then those which are Canonicall His kingly office he doth arrogate to himselfe in making lawes to binde the conscience in ordayning other Sacraments in granting Indulgences and Pardons saying that he is the head of the Church His Priesthood he is an enemie vnto constituting another priesthood after the order of Melchisedech then that of our Sauiour Christ which begun vpon the Crosse and remayneth still in his person being incommunicable to any other creature yet they make euery sacrificing Priest to bee of the order of Melchisedech He impugneth the office of the holy spirit counting that prophane which the holy Ghost hath sanctified as marriage and meates arrogateth in all things the spirit of truth not to erre applieth the merites of Christs passion after his owne pleasure by Pardons Indulgences by ceremonies and Sacraments of his owne inuention Fulk 2. Thess. 2. sect 10. Ergo we conclude out of S. Iohn that seeing he denieth Iesus to be Christ he is Antichrist Sixtly S. Paul sayth that Antichrist shal be an aduersarie 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 2. Thess. 2.4 An aduersarie in doctrine teaching cleane contrarie to the Gospell of Christ so doth the Pope 1 The scripture sayth wee ought to put our trust onely in God and not in man Ierem. 17.7 and to call vpon God onely in the day of trouble Psal. 50.15 and to worship him in spirit and truth Iohn 4.24 The Papists say cleane contrarie that we must call vpon Saints and beleeue they can helpe vs and they teach vs to fall downe before
Spirit was not giuen him by measure Ioh. 3.34 and that the holy Ghost dwelleth in him bodily but it were great blasphemie so to say of any man Apostle or Minister beside which haue receiued of the same grace but not in the like measure that Christ hath but the spirit is giuen to euery one in measure as they haue neede in their seuerall places and callings Secondly though we should grant that the Apostles had the full authoritie of Christ actually to remit sinnes which they shall neuer proue yet it may be doubted whether al Ministers whom they call Priests which name we refuse not if it be taken according to the sense of the originall word Presbyter and not for a sacrificing priesthood haue as full power in this case as the Apostles had nay it is plaine they haue not for the Apostles and other in the Primitiue Church had power to discerne spirits 1. Cor. 12.10 and to giue actually the bodies of the excommunicate to bee vexed and possessed of the diuell 1. Cor. 5.5 and after a strange manner to exercise power ouer their bodily life as Peter did vpon Ananias and Sapphira Act. 5 Yet we rather stand vpon this poynt that neither the Apostles nor any other Ministers haue power actually to remit sinnes then onely as dispensers and stewards in the name of Christ. The Protestants AL the power of binding and loosing committed to the Apostles and to the Ministers of the word and Sacraments is by declaring the will and pleasure of God out of his word both to pronounce forgiuenes of sinnes to all that are truely penitent the reteining of them to the obstinate and impenitent Fulk annot Iohn 20. sect 3. So that Ministers are not made iudges in this case but only as the Lords ambassadors to declare the will of God out of his word 1 There is a notable place for this purpose 2. Corinth 5.18 God hath reconciled vs vnto himselfe through Iesus Christ and hath giuen vs the ministerie of reconciliation So then Christ is the onely author of reconciliation the Apostles are but ministers how then say the Rhemists that Christ himselfe is but a minister also of our reconciliation yet a chiefe minister whereas the Apostle maketh him the author God was in Christ reconciling the world to himselfe vers 19. Wee are but ambassadors for Christ and pray you in Christs stead to bee reconciled vnto God this then is the office of Ministers not to reconcile men vnto God but to pray them to bee reconciled through Christ Christ onely is the reconciler they but ministers of reconciliation They are but messengers and ambassadors onely to declare their Princes pleasure their commission is certaine beyond that they cannot goe Wherefore that is a blasphemous decretal and cleane contrarie to the scripture which is ascribed but falsely to Pontianus Bishop of Rome which sayth that God hath Priests so familiar that by them he forgiueth the sinnes of others and reconcileth them vnto him Fox pag. 59. But S. Paul sayth that God onely by Christ reconcileth vs vnto himselfe 2 Augustine doth very freely vtter his minde concerning this matter who putteth this obiection If men doe not forgiue sinnes then it should seeme to be false which Christ sayth Whatsoeuer you bind in earth is bound in heauen He answereth Daturus erat dominus hominibus spiritum sanctum c. God was to giue vnto men the holy Ghost by whom their sinnes should be forgiuen them Spiritus dimittit non vos spiritus autem Deus est Deus ergo dimittit non vos the spirit therefore remitteth sinne and not you the spirit is God God forgiueth sinnes and not you Here is one argument God onely forgiueth sinnes Ergo not man Againe Quides homo nisi aeger sanandus vis mihi esse medicus mecum quaere medicum O man what art thou that takest away my sinnes but a sicke man thy selfe wouldest thou be my phisition nay let vs both together goe seeke a phisition that may heale vs. Lo another argument He cannot be a phisition to others that needeth a phisition himselfe he cannot reconcile others to God who hath himselfe neede of a reconciler Further he sayth Qui dimittit per hominem potest dimittere praeter hominem non enim minus est idoneus per se dare qui potest per alium dare He that can forgiue sinnes by man can forgiue also without man for he may as well forgiue by himselfe as he can doe it by another Here is then the third argument If man doe actually forgiue sinnes then Christ should not forgiue sinnes without man for the whole power is committed to man Yea the Rhemists affirme the same that it is necessarie we should submit our selues to the iudgement of the Priest for release of our sinnes if it bee necessarie then sinnes cannot be remitted without the Priest then is Christs power limited he cannot forgiue without man which is contrarie to that Augustine affirmeth here THE FOVRTH PART WHETHER STRAIGHT waies whatsoeuer be loosed or bound by the ministerie of men vpon earth be so in heauen The Papists AN expresse power say they is giuen vnto Priests to remit and reteyne error 76 sinnes And Christ promiseth that whose sinnes soeuer they forgiue they are forgiuen of God and whose sinnes soeuer they retaine they are retained of God Rhemist annot Iohn 20. sect 5. Whereby it appeareth it is their opinion which is manifest also by the practise of their Church that at the will and pleasure of euerie priest exercising the keyes vpon earth men are bound and loosed in heauen They ground this their opinion vpon the generalitie of the wordes Whosoeuers sinnes you remit they are remitted Iohn 20.23 and Math. 18.18 Whatsoeuer you binde in earth shall be bound in heauen Answere These places are not so to be vnderstood as though God were bound to ratifie euery decree of men vpon earth for first this power is giuen to all lawfull pastors which doe holde the Apostolike fayth not to Idolatrous ignorant and blasphemous priests such as most if not all of the popish sorte are Secondly they must decree in the earth according to Gods wil Wherefore Iohn 20.22 first Christ breatheth his spirite vpon his Apostles and then giueth them their commission signifiyng hereby that they must execute this power as they shall be directed by Gods spirite and Matth. 18.20 it followeth that they must be assembled in the name of Christ that is according to Christs rule and the direction of his word they must binde and loose and not at their owne discretion The Protestants THat no sentence or decree of men bindeth or looseth before God in heauen but that which is pronounced according to the will and pleasure of GOD and by the warrant of his worde the scripture euery where teacheth vs. 1 Prouer. 26.2 As the sparrow by flying escapeth so the curse that is causelesse shall not come Isay 5.20 Woe vnto them that speake good
condemned to death men that were bestraught of their wits as Collins and Cowbridge were burned beeing both franticke see their storie page 1131. Where is now that lenitie and compassion which ought to be in the Ministers of the Gospell Such crueltie was not heard of no not amongst the heathen Yea they breake their owne law which suffereth a man once to abiure his heresie but if afterwarde he be detected he dieth without mercie Fox Anno. 1511. William Carder Agnes Grebil were condemned though they submitted theÌ„selues and promised to be conformable to their religion page 1277. Yet this law of theirs is most vniust and contrary to the gospell which faieth that if thy brother sinne against thee 7. times in a day and 7. times in a day turne againe and say It repenteth me thou shalt forgiue him Luke 17.4 Yet these men will forgiue but once and not that neither But S. Paul saith An heretike after once or twise admonition reiect Bellarm. his best answer is by denying the text saying that it was not so red in former times but thus after once admonition de laicis cap. 22. There was more clemencie vsed in Augustines time for then Bishops did not prouoke the Magistrate to execute whom they had condemned but did entreat the Magistrate to shew compassion vnto Heretikes not straight wayes to punish them with death Ne sic vitam istam finiant saith Augustine per supplicium vt ea finita non possint finire supplicium Least they should so end this life by punishment that the life being ended they should neuer end their punishment Epist. 54. And in another place sic eorum peceata compesce vt sint quos poeniteat peccasse Epist. 159. So restraine their sinnes that they may yet remaine to repent them of their sinnes In those daies therefore men were not by and by punished with death to preuent their repentance as in time of poperie but their repentance was expected to deliuer them from the sentence of death Thus much of this question as likewise of the whole controuersie and thus far also concerning such controuersies as are moued about the Church militant heere vpon earth which wee haue hitherto prosequuted by the Lords gracious assistaunce In the next place we are to deale in those controuersies which concerne the other part of the Church triumphant in heauen 1. Timoth. 6.16 Soli Deo immortali Patri Filio cum spiritu sancto sit honor imperium sempiternum THE SECOND BOOKE OR CENTVRIE CONTAINING AN OTHER LARGE HVNDRETH OF POPISH errors and many of them foule heresies deuided into six seuerall Controuersies CONCERNING THE ESTATE OF THE CHVRCH TRIVMPHANT IN Heauen and the Sacraments of the Church Militant vpon earth Jmprinted at London by Thomas Orwin for Thomas Man 1592. ILLVSTRISSIMO ET INclytissimo Domino Comiti Essexio non tam generis claritate quam virtute sua nobili de re literaria studiosisque omnibus semper optimè merito Dominoque mihi multis nominibus colendissimo SCite illud Nobilissime Comes ab Epicharmo olim dictum perhibetur 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Qua sententia monet neruos atque artus esse sapientiae noÌ„ temere credere Idque pulchrè depingi solet oculatae manus effigie vt ne vel manu contrectare vel pugillo premere id est mentis consensu iudicio approbare audeamus quod noÌ„ prius penitus exploratuÌ„ habuerimus Hoc sequi coÌ„siliuÌ„ si nostrates voluissent papicolas volo et pontificiae haereseâ—s sectatores Anglos si singula ad trutinam expeÌ„dissent prius ad quae postea admouerunt manus non tam temere imprudenter callidis doctoribus aurem praebuissent nec tam facile cito a sana doctrina desciuissent Multi enim apud nos sunt imperiti homunciones indoctae mulierculae quanquam doctos etiam aliquos et satis cordatos viros ex isto genere agnouerim qui nec scientia armati nec animi proposito stabiles nescientes lethale non minutim guttatim sorbillarunt sed plenò gutture hauserunt venenum dum nihil probantes vel examinantes se papisticae superstitionis astutijs illaqueari passi sunt Haec dum meeum seriò cogito altiùs tanquam ex animi spècula prospiciens contueor non ex alijs initijs quaÌ„ temeritatis ignorantiae hoc taÌ„ magnum malum enatum exortum video Jgnorantiae est quòd veritate spreta neglecta errores sponte liberè imbiberuÌ„t amplexati sunt temeritatis verò quòd se nullo delectu habito seditiosis impijs magistris in disciplinam tradere voluerunt Qui non Epicharmi philosophi humanum sed Pauli Apostoli diuinum consilium respuunt qui sic monet Omnia probate quod bonum est tenete Contra istos etiam satis nos cautos dedit dominus Christus sic praemonens Cauete a Prophetis mendacibus qui veniunt ad vos in vestimentis ouium sed intrinsecus sunt lupi rapaces Cum igitur multos quoruÌ„daÌ„ insidijs deceptos in fraudem illici in errores toto impetu praecipitari cernerem idque non alij principio quaÌ„ ipsorum ignorantiae tribuendum esse operae precium facturum duxi si quis papisticae superstitionis capita in synopsin quandam coÌ„ijcere studeret et passim verae fidei ex scripturis adhibens antidotum vniuersam doctrinam pontificiam vno intuitu conspiciendam proponeret Hoc opus tam necessarium cum diu expectassem dum aggrederentur alij cum neminem huc animum applicasse aut id in animo habere perspexeram Ego tandem prodij è multis millibus ad hoc onus sustinendum minimè omnium idoneus Qui me operam meam non perditurum sed aliquid Ecclesiae commodi allaturam mihi persuaseram si in isto opere desudareÌ„ vt haberent nostrates quo aduersus haeresin pontificiam instructiores esse possint NumeruÌ„ si quis quaerat haereseâ—n quas Romana ecclesia orbi nostro propinauit mensuram omnem modum superant ad immensam molem excrescunt Trecentos ego plures hoc opere percurri errores pontificios nec omnes tamen complexus sum Varro scriptor ille copiosus vir multae lectionis vt scribit August philosophorum sectas vsque ad ducentas octoginta octo numerauit et receÌ„suit Sed a papistis huius seculi erroruÌ„ varietate multitudine veteres illi superantur Scripsit non multis abhinc annis libellum Tilemannus quidaÌ„ Heshusius qui sic inscribitur Sexcenti errores pontificij Geminauit ille duplum effecit numeruÌ„ hunc quem nos secuti sumus Trecentos nos malumus quam sexcentos ponere Non quòd non putem tot vitijs corruptelis superstitionem pontificiam scatere vel non posse tot colligi illius synagogae errores Sed id feci iaÌ„ partim quia praecipua capita maximè proseâ—ui
power for he was not quickned or restored to life by his humane soule but by his diuine power his soule was ioyned againe to his bodie Augustine also giueth another reason why he cannot be said to be quickned or made aliue in spirit that is in his soule for then he must haue died before in soule But Mors animae peccatum est à quo ille immunis fuit But the death of the soule is sinne from the which Christ was free 2 The Apostle speaketh onely of those which were incredulous and disobedient not of the faithfull such as the Patriarkes were and Prophets Yea sayth Bellarm. they might be vnbeleeuers at the first but after repented before they dyed Ans. Then the Apostles comparison could not hold if any were saued without the Arke for as then eight persons onely were saued all without the Arke perished so now without baptisme and faith of the Church for by baptisme he vnderstandeth not the washing of water but the inward grace of the spirit none can be saued If then any were saued out of the Arke there may now also be saluation out of the Church Augustine also sayth Ii modò qui non crediderunt Euangelio illis intelligantur esse similes qui tunc non crediderunt cum fabricaretur arca They which now beleeue not the Gospell are like to them which beleeued not then while the Arke was in making And they which doe now beleeue and are baptized are like to those which then were saued in the Arke Augustine thinketh therefore that they were incredulous persons and vtterly perished both bodie and soule And so is our opinion 3 The text saith not he went and deliuered but went and preached for Augustine calleth it an absurd thing to thinke that the Gospell was preached to them that were dead which in their life time were incredulous for if the Gospell bee preached in Hell sayth he it would followe that it is not necessarie it should be preached here in the world if men when they are dead may heare it and be conuerted And againe it would ensue sayth he that there should bee a Church in hell for where the word is preached there is a Church Wherefore he concludeth that it must needes be vnderstood of Noah his preaching in the spirit and power of Christ Arcae fabricatio praedicatio quaedam fuit The building of the Arke was a kinde of preaching Epistol 99. So also he expoundeth that 1. Pet. 4.6 The Gospell was preached to the dead Ex circumstantia loci apparet eum intelligere eos qui nunc mortui sunt sed olim in vita Euangelium audiuerunt Commentar in epistol ad Roman 4 The text is not that were in prison but doth better beare this sense that are So the Apostles meaning is this that they which were incredulous and disobedient in time past when Noah in the spirit of Christ or Christ by his spirit in Noah preached to the world were then destroyed in the flood now for their increduliti◠are punished in the prison of hell The Protestants THat the holy Patriarkes Fathers and Prophets dyed in the same faith before the comming of Christ which all true Christians doe now hold and were presently receiued into the ioyes of heauen and not kept in any infernall place or dungeon of darknes thus it is proued 1 They had all faith and beleeued in Christ yea the same faith that is now preached as it is defined by the Apostle Heb. 11.1 They also by this faith obtained remission of sinnes Rom. 4.7 Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiuen as it is alleadged out of the Psalme Ergo they were blessed but out of the kingdome of God there was no blessednesse to be found therefore they also went to heauen 2 If the heauens were not opened before Christs ascension as the Rhemists affirme then none went to heauen before Christ ascended But that is false Henoch and Elias by their owne confession were taken vp into Paradise so was the soule of the theefe vpon the Crosse. But Paradise is heauen yea the third and the highest heauen as S. Paul calleth it 2. Corinth 12.4 And so Augustine expoundeth that place Voluit Deus Apostolo demonstrare vitam in qua post hanc vitam viuendum est in aeternū The Lord would shew vnto the Apostle that life wherein after this life we shall liue and remaine for euer De Gene. lib. 12.28 These three therefore went to Paradise which is no infernall or place of darknesse but a Celestiall habitation of ioy light and felicitie They were not then in Limbo Patrum in the dungeon of the Fathers Wherefore we conclude there was accesse to heauen before the ascension of Christ. 3 The Fathers and Patriarkes before Christs comming were in Abrahams bosome but that was no infernall place or prison such as they imagine Limbus Patrum to be Augustine proueth that it could not be membrum or pars inferorum a member or part of Hell or any infernall place as the Iesuits hold First the text saith there is magnum chaos a great gulfe a great distance betweene Luk. 16.26 and vers 23. The rich man sawe Abraham a farre off wherefore it is not like that both those places should be infernall Secondly Abrahams bosome was quietis habitatio faelicitatis sinus a place of rest and blisse but so is not any infernall place where there is horror and darknesse Thirdly the place where the rich man was is called Hell or infernall there is no such thing sayd of Lazarus that he was in any lower place but aboue in some high and farre distant place for the rich man is sayd to lift vp his eyes Augustine then concludeth Ne ipsos quidem inferos vspiam scripturarum locis in bono appellatos reperire potui Epistol 99. I doe not finde that this word infernall is taken any where in the scriptures in the good part And therefore the bosome of Abraham being a place of rest sayth he cannot be any infernall place AN APPENDIX OR APPERTINANCE OF THIS question concerning the apparition of Samuel The Papists THey hold opinion that it was the very soule of Samuel that appeared at the error 10 witches house at Endor vnto Saul and vse it as an argument to proue that the soules of the Patriarkes were not in heauen but in some infernall place before Christs comming because Samuel ascended out of the earth Bellarm. De Christ. anim lib. 411. Argum. 1. Because he that appeared to Saul is called Samuel in the text Augustine answereth that the Images of things are called by the names of the things themselues as Genes 41. Pharao sayd he sawe eares of corne and fat and leane kine in his dreame when they were but the images of such things So the diuell because he appeared in the shape of Samuel Samuel himselfe is sayd to be seene Ad Simplicianum lib. 2. quaest 3. Argum. 2. Ecclesiastic 46 It is set downe as a commendation of Samuel
it may be enquired and it may either be safely found out or remaine hid and vnknowne to the faithfull Enchirid. 69. Augustine saith A faithfull man may safely be ignorant of Purgatorie The Papists error 12 2. THey say they onely goe to Purgatorie that dye in their veniall and light transgressions or which haue their sinnes remitted but not satisfied for the punishment Bellarm. lib. 2. de Purgat cap. 1. The Protestants FIrst we denye that any sinnes are of their owne nature veniall as they affirme for the wages of al sinne without the mercie of God is death Ro. 6.23 Secondly what equitie should there be in this that veniall sinnes should be punished with the hellish fire of Purgatorie that exceedeth al the afflictions of this life yea and a longer time then any man liueth vpon earth for the Pope taketh vpon him to pardon for thousands of yeeres and yet mortall and deadly sinnes as they call them may be satisfied for here where neither the penance can be so grieuous nor so long Thirdly the sinne once remitted there remaineth no punishment Mark 2.5 Christ saith to the sick of the palsie Thy sinnes are forgiuen thee and vers 10. That ye may knowe that the Sonne of man hath authoritie on earth to forgiue sinnes I say vnto thee arise take vp thy bed and walke The releasing him of the punishment of his bodie was a signe that his sinnes also were forgiuen and the sinne being remitted the punishment also ceaseth Wherefore who so leaueth the world without sinne is no more guiltie of any punishment The Papists 3. THe soules in Purgatorie doe neither sinne any more neither can they merite error 13 Ecclesiastes 9.5 The dead knowe nothing at all vers 10. there is neither worke knowledge nor wisedome in the graue Bellarm. cap. 2. The Protestants WE say that if there were any such place as Purgatorie the soules there tormented must needes both increase in charitie and righteousnes because the more they are purged the more pure they are and the lesse drosse is in them and being in vnspeakable torments they cannot choose but tremble and feare yea and also be disquieted in their soules as the Saints were sometime in their afflictions here vpon earth and therefore cannot be without sinne for feare hath painfulnes as the Apostle saith and he that feareth is not perfect in loue 1. Iohn 4.18 Ergo a seruile or slauish feare is sinne That place alleadged doth not onely take away meriting or working from the dead but all knowledge and vnderstanding And it is spoken in the person of the Epicure and sensuall man that thinketh that the dead knowe nothing The Papists 4. THey affirme that the soules in Purgatorie are certaine of their saluation in error 14 the midst of their torments for euery soule departed straight after death receiueth sentence of life or death Bellarm. cap. 4. The Protestants Ans. FIrst that euery soule is iudged presently after death we grant and it maketh strongly against your Purgatorie for the sentence giuen is either of death or life and the sentence being giuen is accordingly executed so that they which receiue sentence of life goe presently to heauen the other to hell For to what purpose els should the sentence be giuen if it be not straightwaies in force So S. Paul saith that they which looke to be clothed with their house from heauen shall not be left naked or vnclothed 2. Cor. 5.2 3 4. But if some soules ordained to life eternall should pause a while in Purgatorie being vnclothed of their flesh they should be left altogether naked hauing not yet receiued their clothing from heauen Secondly where there is securitie of saluation there is the greatest comfort ioy that can be how then can the soules in Purgatorie be so grieuouslie tormented which cannot be els where then in their conscience for as for the whipping scalding freezing of soules in Purgatorie they are but old wiues fables the ioy then of the soule is in the conscience so is the sorowe how then can both these be matched in the soule together to haue vnspeakable ioy as also to feele most horrible paine 5 In these poynts alreadie set downe our aduersaries we see are bold to define certainly of Purgatorie but there are as many poynts and somewhat more which they leaue in doubt and vncertaine First where Purgatorie should bee Bellarmine gesseth it is in the bowels of the earth next to hell cap. 6. so doe the Rhemists Luk. 16. sect 8. But they doe not all agree neither hath their Church defined it Secondly they cannot tell how many yeeres Purgatorie endureth whether an hundred or two hundred or thousands of yeeres Thirdly they can not tell certainly whether it be materiall fire which burneth in Purgatorie but they say it is probable Fourthly neither cā they shew how corporall fire should worke vpon the soules in Purgatorie being spirituall and incorporall Bellarmine cap. 12. Fiftly they are vncertaine whether the diuels or angels be the tormentors in Purgatorie cap. 13. Sixtly whether the paine of Purgatorie be at all time alike or by little and little slaked toward the end and whether it doe exceede all the paines and sorowes of this life they yet remaine vncertaine and are not able to determine Bellarm. lib. 2. de purgat cap. 14. Let vs leaue them therefore with their vncertainties and brainsicke phansies for the vaine inuentions and imaginations of men haue no end but are fitly by the Prophet cōpared to sparkles that leape out thick out of the fire but are soone extinguished Walk saith the Prophet in the light of your fire and sparkes that you haue kindled that is as the sparkes giue but a dimme light for a man to walke by he may stumble and grope about still for all that light euen so no maruaile if the Papists doe wander vp and downe in their imaginations walking by the light and sparkles of their phantasticall and mathematicall fire of Purgatorie THE THIRD PART WHETHER THE PRAIERS OF the liuing or any other workes of theirs doe profite the dead The Papists THeir opinion is that the praiers of the liuing are neither auailable for the Saints in heauen for they neede them not not for the damned in hell for they cannot be helped but onely for the soules tormented in Purgatorie who doe finde great ease say they by the praiers of the liuing and therfore we ought to pray for them Bellar. lib. 2. de purgator cap. 15.18 Rhemist annot 2. Thessal 2. sect 19. Argum. 1. Christ while he liued profited the dead for he raised to life the rulers daughter Math. 9. the widdowes sonne Luk. 7. and Lazarus which were dead therefore euen so the members of Christ ought one to helpe another the liuing the dead Bellarm. cap. 15. Ans. First is not here a strong argument thinke you Christ raised Lazarus and some others from death to life Ergo we ought to pray for the dead for it followeth
and religious deuotion to the dead bodies of Saints Rhemist Math. 14. sect 2. Their bodies are the temples of the holy Ghost and shall be raised againe to life Ergo they must be adored and worshipped Trident. Concil sess 25. Ans. One answere may serue for all these arguments We denie not but that the dead bodies of the faithfull are to be layd vp with reuerence in hope of the resurrection but it therefore followeth not that they must be abused to idolatrie Iohns disciples buried his bodie but shrined it not to be worshipped Iosias made difference betweene the bones of the idolatrous priests and of the true Prophet the one he burned and thought them vnworthie of honest sepulture the other he suffered to rest and enioy the honour of buriall But of any adoration or worshipping of his bones we reade not The Protestants THe bodies of Martyrs are reuerently to be brought to the ground in testimonie of our hope of their resurrection and their memorie is to be honored as in praising God for their constant martyrdome so the Psalmist sayth Right precious in the sight of God is the death of his Saints Psalm 116. As also in following their steps and propounding vnto vs their good example but to adore and worship their bones to kisse and kneele downe at their sepulchres is to too grosse idolatrie and not to be vsed amongst Christians 1 The Lord did of purpose himselfe burie the bodie of Moses in a secret place which was neuer knowne to the Israelites and this reason is generally rendered by most writers lest the people of Israel should worship his body and so commit idolatrie Ergo the adoration of the bodies of Saints displeaseth God Argum. Caluin Bellarmine answereth that though the people of Israel might by that meanes haue fallen into idolatrie yet the people of God may now more safely honour reliques because they are not so prone to idolatrie Ans. Experience of popish idolatrie proueth the cleane contrarie for the like superstition and worshipping of images was neuer so common and vsuall no not in the most corrupt times of that Church as now it is in poperie 2 Our Sauiour Christ reproueth the Scribes and Pharisees calling them hypocrites because they did garnish the sepulchres of the Prophets whom their forefathers put to death Math. 23.29 But their doctrine they neglected and regarded not Such hypocrites are the Papists at this day who commit a double fault for they contemne the doctrine of the Apostles whose memories they would seeme to honour and againe in the superstitious honour and worship which they yeeld vnto them they exceed the bonds of Christian pietie 3 Their bodies were not to be worshipped when they were aliue much lesse now they are dead What are they now but earth dust and ashes according as the Lord sayd to Adam Thou art dust and to dust shalt thou returne Genes 3.19 What is this els but to worship the earth euen dust and ashes So Augustine saith Timeo adorare terram ne damnet me qui fecit coelum terram I am afraid to worship the earth lest he condemne me that made both heauen and earth Onely in Christ sayth he I finde quomodo sine impietate adoretur terra how the earth that is his body may be worshipped without any impietie namely because of the neere coniunction and vnion of his humane nature with the Godhead in one person for otherwise of it selfe the bodie of Christ is Gods creature and workmanship and not capable of diuine worship This then is the priuiledge that Christ hath more then all Saints and Martyrs beside that in him onely the humanitie is adored THE SECOND PART OF THE TRANSLAtion of the bodies of Saints The Papists IT is an vsuall thing amongst them to translate and carrie from one place to error 32 another the bones and reliques of Saints as they say Iohn Baptists head was translated from Samaria to Alexandria and is now at Amiens in France Rhemist Math. 14. sect 1. So the body of S. Luke was remoued they say from Achaia to Constantinople and from thence to Padua in Italy where now it remaineth Argument in Luk. Rhemist The stone also that hit S. Stephen is now at Ancona in Italy Act. 7. sect 6. Argum. 1. Ioseph gaue charge concerning his bones when he died and they were remoued from Egypt to the land of Canaan at the departure of the Israelites Exod. 13. Heb. 11.22 Ergo the remouing and translation of Saints bodies or reliques lawfull Rhemist Bellarm. cap. 3. Ans. Ioseph gaue commandement concerning his bones to testifie his faith and hope in the promise of God for the inheritance of the land of Canaan they were not remoued to be adored or worshipped Ergo no such translation of reliques is hereby proued Secondly you can shew no such charge that S. Paul Peter or any of the rest gaue concerning the translation of their bodies as Ioseph gaue vnto his posteritie The Protestants WE denie not but that the bodies of the dead before they be interred may bee conueyed vnto the place of their buriall as Iosias was carried being dead by his seruants from Megiddo to Ierusalem where a sepulchre was prepared for him 2. King 23.30 But either for the dead to be remoued to be buried in some one place more then another for the holinesse thereof or the bones of Saints to be raked out of their graues and translated with intent to shrine them and set them vp to be adored they are superstitious customes and not vsed of ancient time among the people of God Argum. 1. That the place profiteth not the dead but vnto them it is all alike wheresoeuer they are buried we haue shewed afore 1. part controuer 9 quaest 2. part 4. The example of Augustines mother is notable and worthie the memorie She had with great care prouided her a sepulchre neere vnto her husband who dyed at Thagasta in Africa and was there buried and was purposed her selfe to lye by him but the Lord so disposed that she left her life at Hostia in Italie and being readie to depart she sayd thus to her sonnes Ponite hoc corpus vbicunque nihil vos eius cura conturbet Burie my bodie where you thinke good take no great care for it And being asked if it grieued her not to leaue her body so farre off from her owne citie she gaue this godly answere Nihil longe est à Deo neque timendum est ne ille non agnoscat in fine seculi vnde me resuscitet August lib. confess 9. cap. 11. No place is neerer to God then other neither am I to feare lest the Lord should not as well raise me vp in this place as in mine owne citie Ergo in respect of the dead it skilleth not where they are buried Argum. 2. The other custome of translating of reliques to be worshipped is farre more impious and superstitious for hereupon it commeth that the people haue been deceiued with false
reliques yea one and the selfe same relique is sayd to be in diuers places As of S. Iohn Baptists head his face they say is at S. Iean Angelz the rest of his head at Malta his skull at Nemours his braine at Nouium Rastrouiense his iaw bone at Vesalium a peece of his eare at S. Floride his forehead and haires in Spayne at S. Saluadores and yet for all this his whole head is to bee seene at Saint Siluesters in Rome and at Amiens in France Fulk Matthew 14.2 Thus they haue mangled also the bodie of Saint Peter halfe they say is at Saint Peters in Rome halfe at Saint Paules his head at Saint Iohn Laterane his neather iawe with his beard at Poycters in Fraunce at Triers many of his bones Fulk Rom. 16. sect 4. See what mockage and cosoning here is and abusing of simple people How can their whole bodies bee in one place and yet their parts and bones in another And where doe they learne thus to dismember their bodies and to rake them out of their graues The honouring of the bodies of Martyrs is to suffer them quietly to rest in their graues and not to rot aboue the ground Iosias honoured the Prophets sepulchre and would not remoue his bones herein therefore they dishonour the Martyrs and offer violence to their bodies thinking falsely that they doe great worship vnto them Augustine sayth that hee which would now renewe the ceremonies of the Iewes that are as it were buried tanquam sopitos cineres eruens non erit pius deductor aut baiulus corporis sed impius sepulturae violator Epistol 19. He should be as one raking in the ashes of the dead and so bee rather a violator of Christian buriall then a bringer of the bodie honestly to the ground So by Augustines iudgement eruens sopitos cineres he that pulleth out dead mens ashes bones or reliques is sepulturae violator a prophaner of their buriall THE THIRD PART OF THE KEEPING and preseruing of reliques The Papists error 33 WE must not thinke it impossible that the monuments of Saints as their garments reliques bones should endure a long time seeing Manna was kept so many hundred yeeres in the pot which was placed by the Arke being a thing so apt to putrifie Rhemist Hebr. 9. sect 4. Ans. When we haue a commandement for the reseruation of such things as the Israelites had we may beleeue they will keepe so long And againe the Israelites for all that did not worship the pot of Manna though it were of such long continuance The Protestants THe bodies and bones of men departed neither are to be kept out of their graues as we haue shewed neither can they be preserued without corruption Argum. 1. Vnto all Adams seede it is sayd Dust thou art and to dust shalt thou returne only the bodie of Christ had this priuiledge Psal. 16. Not to see corruption Ergo the bodies of men departed though they were neuer so holy being all the seede of Adam must be turned to dust Argum. 2. If they would glorifie God and speake the truth they doe very wel knowe by experience that the reliques of Saints haue no such promise or warrant for their continuance for most if not all of their reliques were forged and deuised and no such thing indeed S. Peters braine at Genoua was found to be a pumice stone S. Antonies arme was found to be an Harts pissle at Toures of late the image of Venus in an Agate was worshipped for the image of the Virgine Mary the blood of Hales in England was descried to be but the blood of a drake the three hostes at Caleis were but three white counters sodred into a marble stone These and many such monuments and reliques of Saints the Church of Rome hath great store no maruaile now if they be of long continuance for stones and counters may last a great while and drakes blood with other such stuffe is not so daintie but it may be still renewed Of such cosoning trickes Augustine complained in his time speaking of runnagate Monkes he saith Alij membra martyrum si tamen martyrum venditant Alij fimbrias suas phylacteria magnificant Some doe boast of reliques of Martyrs which they carrie about perhaps they are no such reliques some doe extoll their habite and Monkish weede De opere Monachorum cap. 28. See then I pray you what diuellish idolatrie was this to cause the people to worship counters drakes blood Harts sinewes and other such base creatures in stead of reliques which though they were such indeede ought not to be worshipped THE FOVRTH PART CONCERNING VISIsions and miracles done at the Tombes and reliques of Martyrs The Papists FIrst they almost make it an ordinarie thing in their Church to worke miracles Bellarmine sayth that it is a sufficient note of the Church the glorie or error 34 power of miracles De eccles lib. 4. cap. 14. Christ sayth that they that doe beleeue in him shall doe greater workes then he No maruaile then if the image of our Ladie say they and the like worke miracles as Peters shadowe did and that they seeme greater then Christs for he promiseth that his Saints shall worke greater miracles then himselfe Rhemist annot Iohn 14. sect 3. They also call vpon vs to confirme our doctrine by miracles because we preach newly and extraordinarily Rhemist 2. Corinth 12. sect 5. The Protestants Ans. FIrst that place alleadged proueth not such a generalitie and perpetuitie of working miracles for then euery one that beleeueth should do greater workes then Christ for our Sauiour speaketh generally He that beleeueth Augustine doth farre otherwise and in a better sense expound this place He that beleeueth in me shall doe the same workes that I doe Quae opera nisi vt ex impio iustus fiat prius ego facio deinde ipse faciet quia facio vt ipse faciat What workes sayth he but that he which beleeueth of a wicked man shall be made righteous which worke first I doe sayth Christ then he himselfe doth it because I make him to doe it Quod vtique in illo sed non sine illo Christus operatur Mans conuersion is wrought by Christ in man not altogether without man because Christ working in vs doth enable vs by his grace to worke out our saluation Philipp 2.12 yet is it not our selues that worke but the grace of God in vs. Then it followeth he shall doe greater workes then these Prorsus maius hoc esse dixerim quam est coelum terra The redemption and conuersion of men is a greater worke then the heauens or the earth Tract in Iohann 72. Augustine therefore doth properly vnderstand this place not of outward miracles but of the wonderfull conuersion of the heart which we are sayd to worke because Christ worketh it in vs. 2. As we denie not but that there may in these daies be miracles wrought and all such miracles as serue to confirme
be lawfull to worship them Fourthly what manner of worship it should be THE FIRST ARTICLE OF THE DIFFErence betweene Idols and Images The Papists THere is great difference say they betweene an Image and an Idoll an Image called in Greeke 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is the true similitude of a thing an Idoll 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 error 38 in Greeke translated simulachrum doth represent that which is not as were the Idols of Venus Minerua women Goddesses which was a meere deuised thing Images they confesse they haue but no Idols Bellarm. cap. 5. First S. Paul sayth 1. Corinth 10. That an Idoll is nothing that is doth represent a thing that is not as such were their heathenish Idols Bellarm. Ans. First the place is not so vnderstood for the Apostle sayth That things offered to Idols also are nothing which were not made to represent any thing But his meaning is this that of themselues they are nothing to breede offence neither were it needfull to shunne eating of Idoll sacrifices or to abhorre an Idoll but that they are abused and turned to the seruice of diuels as it followeth in the next verse Therefore an Idoll is not sayd to be nothing because it representeth a thing imagined but that of it selfe being but wood or stone or such like it were not offensiue if it were not abused to idolatrie Secondly all the portraictures of the Heathen were not Idols in this sense for Iupiter Mars Apollo Hercules whose images they had were men sometime liuing Thirdly you haue images representing nothing as the pictures of Angels of God the Father of the holy Ghost which haue no shape nor likenes Againe you haue also your imagined Saints as S. George S. Christopher for there were neuer any such and therefore you haue Idols as well as the Heathen The Protestants THough the name Idoll haue an odious signification in the English tongue yet neither the Greeke 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 nor the Latine simulachrum doe sound so euill vnto the eares and in many places of the scripture we may in differently reade idoll or image for all worshipping of Images is idolatrie If we will distinguish them they are thus rather to be seuered An Idoll is that image which is set vp with an intent to be worshipped an Image is a generall name as well to vnlawfull pictures set vp for idolatrie as lawfull which haue but a ciuill vse But that the Papists Idols are images thus we proue it Argum. 1. The scripture calleth the Gentiles Idols images Rom. 1.23 there the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is vsed Ergo idoll and image are taken for one they haue images set vp for religious or rather irreligious vses Ergo Idols Arg. 2. Apocal. 9.20 There is mention made of Idols of gold siluer brasse which cannot be vnderstood of the Idols of the Gentiles which were abolished long agoe and that prophecie is to be vnderstood of men liuing after the opening of the seuenth seale which is toward the end of the world Wherefore it must needes be vnderstood of the Papists who are the onely knowne people in the world that worship images Ergo they haue Idols Augustine taketh imago and simulachrum which is the Latine for the Greeke 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for all one for the loue of the dead sayth he images were first made whereof the vse of simulachers or Idols doe arise THE SECOND ARTICLE WHETHER IT BE lawfull to haue the images of the Trinitie of Christ or of the Angels The Papists error 39 THat Images may haue a good ciuill vse as for decencie or comelines of some worke or for vtilitie of storie it is of neither part denied but they further affirme that it is lawfull to expresse the Trinitie by pictures as God like an olde man and with the world in his hand Christ as he walked vpon the earth the holy Ghost in the likenes of a Doue the Angels with wings and these pictures they say are very meete and profitable to be set vp in Churches Rhemist Act. 17. sect 5. Arg. 1. To paint the Trinitie or any one of them as they appeared visiblie is no more inconuenient then it was vndecent for them so to appeare Rhem. ibid. Ans. You flatly controll the law of God which simply forbiddeth any similitude to be made of things in heauen or in earth to worship God by And Deut. 4.15 God expresly declareth that he would not appeare in any visible shape when he gaue the law lest the people should abuse that shape to make an image of God after it Lastly the argument followeth not for God sawe it was conuenient sometime by visible signes to appeare vnto men and yet seeth it to be inconuenient for pictures to be made to resemble him by for els he would neuer haue forbidden it Arg. 2. The angels were pictured in forme of Cherubims Ergo Spirits may be portraicted Ans. When you can shewe an expresse commandement for your images as the Israelites had for them we will yeeld that they are lawfully made Againe how followeth it God may command images to be made for the vse of religion Ergo men may for the law bindeth not the Lord who is the lawmaker But the law sayth thou shalt not make to thy selfe that is by thine owne authoritie any grauen image The Cherubims also were not made publikely to be seene and gazed vpon by the people but were set in the holy place so are not your pictures and images which are set vp openly in your Churches to entise people to idolatrie The Protestants TO set forth the Godhead and diuine nature by any picture or image is impossible and therefore both vnlawfull and inconuenient but to bring them into Churches and to make them for some vse of religion is a high steppe vnto grosse superstition 1. Such images of the Trinitie among the Papists are made to resemble the diuinitie and Godhead for to what purpose els should such images be made Fulk Act. 17. sect 5. They picture God the Father like an old man because in that forme he appeared to Daniel but how knowe they whether it were God the Father rather then God the Sonne who is as old as God the Father or then the whole Godhead They commend also the image of God the Father with the world in his hand which is a lying image and maketh simple people to beleeue that the world was made onely by God the Father which was the worke of the whole Trinitie Some of the Papists themselues as Abulensis Durandus Peresius doe hold that the image of God ought not to be made and that it is rather tolerated then allowed in the Church As for the images of Christ in the forme of a Lambe and the holy Ghost in shape of a Doue Bartholomaeus Caranza a papist sheweth that they were forbidden in the sixt generall Synode Canon 28. And this Bellarmine denyeth not Concerning the picture of Christ as he was man the Papists
Ruffinus that it was left at Ierusalem and that Helena sent a peece of it to Constantinople and in many other places there are peeces of the Crosse to bee seene which if they were all laied together as Erasmus saith would fill a shippe for why Paulinus witnesseth that the Crosse remaineth whole at Ierusalem as though it had been neuer touched though innumerable peeces be dayly cut off from it at the request of men But this fable that goeth vnder the name of Paulinus the Papistes themselues are ashamed of But if the true and right Crosse were to be had why might it not be serued if people beganne to abuse it to Idolatrie as Hezekiah serued the brasen serpent he brake it in peeces when the people began to make an Idol of it Augustine saith Christus ambulauit in mari vt ostenderet in mari esse viam sed tù quoniam i◠mari ambulare non potes naui portare ligno portare crede in crucifixum poteris peruenire Nemo potest transire mare huius seculi nisi Cruce Christi portatus Christ walked in the Sea to shewe vs that our way must bee through the Sea But thou because thou canst not walke in the sea must sayle in a ship and be carried in a peece of wood Beleeue in him that was crucified for thee No man can passe the sea of this world but being borne vp with the crosse of Christ. Heere Augustine maketh no reckoning of the wood of the Crosse which was easier to be had in his daies then euer since but ascribeth al to faith and beleefe in Christ crucified THE SECOND ARTICLE OF THE Image of the Crosse or Crucifix The Papists THe Image of Christ vpon the crosse whether painted carued or grauen we error 43 see is had in great honour amongst our aduersaries They kneele downe before their crucifix weare it in their bosomes next to their heart carry it in their iourneyes set it vp to be adored in their churches Argum. 1. As adoration was done vnto God in olde time at and before the Arke and Tabernacle so it may be done now at or before a crucifix relique image Rhemist annot Heb. 11. sect 9. Ans. 1. It is not al one to worship God at or before a thing as to worship and adore the thing the Israelits worshipped God in at or before the Tabernacle yet did they not worship the Tabernacle as you do the crucifix 2. They might worship God before the Arke because they were commanded so to do but it is not lawfull to fall downe before a crucifix because all such images are flatly in the 2. commandement forbidden Argum. 2. The signe of the crosse appeared to Constantine in the ayer he caused the crosse to be carried before him as an ensigne in battail When the Iewes had leaue of Iulian to build the Temple there were Crosses seene euery where in their garmentes and many such apparitions haue there beene of the Crosse Ergo it is to be honoured and worshipped Bellarmine cap. 28. Ans. 1. What if Constantine caused the Crosse to be carried before him stamped it in his coyne set vp his picture with the Crosse in his hand all this we grant was done may be done againe It was but a ciuil no religious vse of the Crosse He worshipped it not vnlesse you will say he set vp his owne image with the Crosse in his hand to be worshipped 2. As for the apparitions of the Crosse though wee think many of them to be forged yet wee deny not but that the Lord hath and may yet shewe what signes and tokens it pleaseth him in the Heauen and the earth yet it followeth not that the signe of the crosse should therfore be worshipped because it was shewed to Constantine no more then other signes and strange sights that many times appeare in the aire For the other apparition of Crosses in the Iewes garmentes wee will require it with another and yet you shal gaine nothing by it Anno. 1505. vnder the raigne of the Emperor Maximilian there appeared diuerse tokens of bloody crosses the nayles the spunge the speare and other signes of Christs passion in the garments of men and women yea in their rockes while they were a spinning reported by Francis Mirandula Carion Functius Melancton Flaccius But the Popish Chronologers make no mentiō of it as Christianus Masseus others of that profession As the Crosses in the Iewes garments that went about to establish their ceremonies againe did shew that do what they could the gospell that is the preaching of his Crosse should take place as it did so these signes in Germany did portēd that the gospel in Germany should be preached though the Papistes striued neuer so much against it But it is a farre fetcht conclusion to inferre heereupon that the signe or Image of the Crosse is to be adored The Protestants THe Image of the Crosse of Christ is neither to be painted carued grauen for any religious vse nor to be adored or worshipped but men so doing do fal into the grieuous and high offence and sinne of idolatrie Argu. 1. The Scripture neuer calleth the Crosse whereon Christ suffered the holy Crosse as the papistes do but rather cursed for S. Paul proueth that Christ became accursed for vs because he dyed vpon the Crosse according to the scripture Cursed is euery one that hangeth on a tree Howe then is it nowe honored which was then accursed And if all crosses are worthy honour because of Christ his Crosse then why not all nayles and speares for with them he was pearsed al thornes also because of his crowne of thornes yea al horse-mangers too because he was laid in a Cribbe Argum. 2 They are vncertaine of what fashion the Crosse of Christ was whetherlike the Greeke letter Υ. or this letter x. or the Greek 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 T. or of this fashiō †or of this ✚ which is the vsuall fourme of their Crosses how then dare they worship that which they know not and are vncertaine of 3. All those reasons which we brought before against the worshipping of images part ◠huius quaest articul 3. may be vrged against the adoration of Crucifixes Augustine thus writeth Hanc intuentes salutiferam crucem omne calumniantium superborum virus expellimus By beholding this helpfull or helthfull Crosse we are able to auoid the poyson of all proud venemous Cauillers Hee speaketh not of any Crucifix that they had in sight but of the fruitfull meditation of the passion of Christ as he sayeth a little before Dum vigilantissima diligentissima pietate Christus crucifixus attenditur When with diligent and watchfull and godly attention we consider Christ crucified Loe this was Augustines Crucifix to meditate vpon the death of Christ. THE THIRD ARTICLE OF THE SIGNE of the Crosse in the forehead or made ouer any thing with the hand The Papists THey say it is an holy and venerable signe and meet to be
festiuities of her Conception and Assumption be not kept she should haue none at all and so be thought worthie of lesse remembrance then any other Saint Galat. 4. sect 5. Rhemist The Protestants 1. WE doe not celebrate any festiuall daies in the honour of creatures neither of the Virgine Mary nor any other Saint but only to the honor of God and therefore the feasts of the Annuntiation and Purification may much better be receiued because they belong and are referred vnto Christ then the other festiuities of the assumption and conception of Mary the institution whereof was most superstitious the one for the fayned assumption of her bodie which your owne writers are vncertaine of the other to maintaine the heresie of the Franciscanes that she was conceiued and borne without sinne As for the memorie of the Virgine Mary it may better be kept then by such festiuities as our Sauiour Christ taught to keepe the remēbrance of Mary Magdalene by preaching the Gospell Math. 26.13 Fulk annot Act. 1.7 And if they only are Catholike generations that call her blessed in keeping these festiuities in her memoriall then there were no Catholike generations for many hundred yeeres after and so do you condemne the age of the Apostles for neither then nor many yeres after were these superstitious festiuities heard of But Mary saith in her song From henceforth euen from this time forward shall all generations call me blessed so that if her blessednesse had consisted in the memorie of those daies they should immediatly haue been kept especially the day of her natiuitie Fulk Galath 4. sect 5. 2. We doe allow all praise giuen vnto the Virgine without the dishonour of God and her Sonne and Sauiour Christ we doe acknowledge the honour that God vouchsafed her not to be a meritorious or principall efficient cause of our redemption but onely an holy vessell and instrumentall cause of the conception and birth of Christ by whose only merite and worthines our redemption is perfited as by a proper and principall and onely meritorious efficient cause thereof And therefore those are blasphemous titles which are giuen vnto her to call her the ladder of Heauen and gate of Paradise and such like and so in a manner to make her our redeemer Augustine saith She was more happie in that she conceiued the faith of Christ then in conceiuing the flesh of Christ. If then these titles be vnmeet for her in respect that she receiued the faith of Christ which is common to al the children of God then are they more vnfit in that she conceiued the flesh of Christ. 3. It is great presumption to thinke that the Virgine Mary may command her sonne in heauen seeing she had no authoritie to command him vpon earth in any thing pertaining to his office Ioh. 2.4 And now likewise that carnall respect of children to their parents ceaseth in the kingdome of God As for that superioritie higher kind of honour which she hath aboue al the Saints beside we finde no warrant out of scripture She is respected now in heauen not as she bare the flesh of Christ but as she liued by faith in Christ she also reioyced in God her Sauiour The scripture therefore maketh one condition and estate of all that shall be saued and sayth generally of all of others as well as the Virgine Christs mother That they shall be as the angels in heauen Matth. 22.30 Yea our Sauiour sheweth that Whosoeuer doth the wil of God is his sister brother and mother Math. 12.50 By the which we learne that other the faithfull seruants of GOD may by their faith in Christ be as well accepted of God as if they had borne Christ in the flesh Where then is that high dignitie which she hath as the mother of Christ aboue all Saints Augustine saith Tu concinis sine fine choris coniuncta Angelis Archangelis sociata Thou O Virgine doest reioyce being ioyned vnto the heauenly quire being associated to Angels and Archangels He maketh her not Ladie or Queene of heauen but onely a fellow companion of the Saints and Angels AN APPENDIX OR FIFT PART OF THE MErites of the Virgine and of the Aue Maria. The Papists 1. THey doe teach and hold that she onely amongst all women deserued to error 84 beare the redeemer of the world and so by her merites obtained that fauour to be the mother of Christ. Argum. The Angel saluteth her calleth her Full of grace which sheweth the prerogatiue that she had aboue other women and the worthines that was in her Rhemist Luk. 1. sect 12.15 The Protestants Ans. 1. Wee acknowledge that herein she was blessed aboue all other women in that she was chosen to be the mother of our Sauiour and that she was endued fully with the graces of the holy Ghost but those graces she had not of her selfe but of the free gift of God without her merites 2. The word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifieth freely beloued not full of grace as it is likewise taken Ephes. 1.6 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 He hath made vs accepted in his beloued Sonne 3. She her selfe confesseth her selfe in her song to bee of a lowe degree poore in spirit and hungrie whom God in mercie looked vpon Luk. 1.50 whereas God sent away the proud and rich as the proud Pharisie that thought himselfe rich of good workes obtained nothing of God Luk. 18. Wherefore if she had stood vpon her owne deserts she had made her selfe rich not poore neither should she haue magnified the mercie of God but his iustice for when a reward is giuen according to desert it is of his iustice and not mercie Augustine thus commenteth vpon the words of her song Magnificet animae mea Dominum recordetur quomodo nullis suis praecedentibus meritis sed sola dei bonitate sit ab iniquitate saluata Let my soule praise the Lord and remember how that not by any merites going before but through the only gracious goodnes of God it is deliuered from sinne Ergo Mary not saued by her merites nor consequently the mother of Christ by her merites but onely by the meere fauour of God The Papists 2. THey much commend the often vsing of the Aue Mary which is done say error 85 they to the honour of Christ and our Ladie Argum. They be the very summe and abridgement of the whole Gospell and therefore to be vsed Rhemist Luk. 1. sect 11. The Protestants 1. You do shamefully abuse those words in making a praier of them which was but a forme of salutation vsed by the Angel neither can you say them in that sense they were vttered in by the Angel Also you offend in the vaine repetition of them vpon your beades as the heathen did Math. 6.7 and in committing idolatrie in the inuocating of the Virgine and praying vnto her in these words who is a creature and not a God to be called vpon 2. What mysterie soeuer be contained
as much as Bernard sayth whose speech they themselues allow In sacrameÌ„to exhiberi veram carnis Christi substantiaÌ„ sed spiritualiter non carnaliter that the very substance of Christs flesh is exhibited vnto vs in the sacrament but spiritually not carnally This Bellarmine acknowledgeth to bee true though hee would not haue the worde spiritually to bee vsed lest it might bee as hee sayth by vs misconstrued This then is our fayth and iudgement that wee are verilie in this sacrament engrafted into the bodie of Christ and doe truely eate his flesh and drink his blood but all this is done spirituallie onely and by faith As for their carnall eating and deuouring of Christ we vtterlie reiect and condemne it Argum. 1. In the receiuing of the sacrament there is a double coniunction we are ioyned to Christ make one body also amongst our selues so saith S. Paul 1. Cor. 10.16.17 We are made partakers of the body of Christ and wee that are many are one bread and one body but our participation with the mysticall bodie of Christ is spirituall Ergo also our communication with his naturall body Fulk in hunc locum Arg. 2. If the body of Christ be in the sacrament theÌ„ is it eaten torne with the teeth And what is eaten goeth into the belly is cast out into the draught Mark 7.19 I pray you what is now become of the body of Christ doth it passe the same way that other meates doe Bellarm. answereth lib. 1. cap. 11. ad argum 5. that they are the accidents of the bread and wine which are eaten and chawen or rent by the teeth not the body of Christ and yet the body of Christ goeth down into the stomack but no further but when the formes of bread wine begin to be corrupted there the body of Christ goeth away Bellarm. cap. 14. Ans. 1. This is new learning that the accidents of meate are chawen in the mouth not the meate it selfe that the formes only not the substance is altred corrupted in the stomack Say also that men are nourished with accidents not with the substance If the priest chance to drink too deepe of the chalice and so become drunk I pray you what is it that maketh him so light headed Is it think you the accidents onely of wine Surely a drunken man would not say it If a Mouse chance to creepe into your pixe and fil her hungry belly with your God-amight what is it that the Mouse feedeth vpon trow you they bee accidents onely for you say that the consecrated host goeth no further then the stomack and yet it is too much that the housel of Christians should be housed in a mouses belly These are but ridiculous and light questions yet such as haue troubled your grauest and sagest heads and remayne vnanswered 2. Bellarmin denieth that the body of Christ being eaten goeth any further then the stomack But our Rhemists goe further they say that we are made a peece of his body and blood They should rather haue sayd that his body and blood is made a peece of vs being conuerted into our substance But silly men we pitie them If we should presse them still with these questions they would sooner run mad then find out any reasonable and sober answere for vs. Argum. 3. Christ in his flesh is ascended vp to heauen and there must remayne till his comming againe Act. 3.21 Agayne he saith The poore you shal haue alwayes but me alwayes you cannot haue Mark 14. Ergo Christ being now in his humanity in heauen cannot bee present in the sacrament vpon earth Bellarmine answereth that the carnall presence of Christ doth not draw him out of heauen his naturall bodie remaineth there still yet by his omnipotent power he can make his bodie to be in many places at once cap. 14. Ans. If Christs bodie be in heauen and in earth and in many places at once it must either be his owne naturall bodie which was borne of the Virgine Mary or he must euery day create himselfe a new bodie but this were to too absurd to be granted that euery day there should be a new Christ. Neither can the first be admitted for a natural bodie hath a natural presence but so hath not Christs bodie in the Sacrament for it is not there naturally being without shape or forme neither visible nor sensible And how can it stand with the propertie of a true naturall bodie to be in a thousand places at once for so must Christs needs be and in more too seeing he is kept and hanged vp in euery popish Church And further if totus Christus whole Christ be in the Sacrament both with his bodie and soule you must either graunt that there are many whole Christs seeing he is in many places at once or els if there be but one whole Christ his humanitie must be dispersed euery where as his Godhead is and so are you against your wils become Vbiquitaries Hearken what Augustine sayth Cauendum est ne ita diuinitatem adstruamus hominis vt veritatem corporis auferamus We must take heede we doe not so maintaine the diuine nature of the man Christ that we take away the nature of his bodie Argum. 4. The fathers in the law did eate the same spiritual meate and drinke the same spirituall drinke in their Sacraments that we doe 1. Corinth 10.2.3 but they did not eate the flesh of Christ nor drinke his blood but onely spiritually by faith Ergo no more doe we Argum. 5. There remained wine still after the consecration and distribution amongst the Apostles for Christ saith He will drinke no more of the fruite of the vine Math. 26.29 So S. Paul calleth the other element bread after the consecration 1. Corinth 10.17 We that are many are one bread because we are partakers of one bread Likewise cap. 11.26 Ergo there remaineth still bread and wine in the Sacrament And therefore no bodie of Christ for they cannot be there both together as they teach Lastly we must vnderstand that this their deuised and forged opinion of the reall presence of Christ is of no antiquitie in the Church neither was there any question about it for a 1000. yeeres after Christ til the time of Berengarius who liued about Anno. 1060. who was sore troubled for maintaining the truth against the carnall presence and vnder Pope Leo the 9. and Nicholas the 2. was constrained twise to recant yet there was no publique lawe or decree made in the Church concerning transubstantiation till the Councel of Laterane which was held vnder Pope Innocent the 3. Anno. 1215. And that this grosse opinion fauoureth not a whit of antiquitie it may appeaâ—e by the resolute iudgement of Augustine Sacramenta ex similitudine ipsarum rerum nomina habent secundum quendam moduÌ„ sacramentuÌ„ corporis Christi corpus Christi est c. The Sacraments because of some likenes doe beare the
names of the things themselues as the Sacrament of the bodie of Christ is after a certaine manner called his bodie Christus corporis sui figuram discipulis commendauit Christ did commend to his disciples a figure of his bodie Quid paras dentem ventrem Crede manducasti Why doest thou make readie thy teeth thy bellie Beleeue in Christ and thou hast eaten him Secundum praesentiam maiestatis semper habemus Christum secundum praesentiam carnis recte dictum est discipulis Me semper non habebitis According to the presence of his Maiestie we haue Christ alwaies according to his carnall presence it was truely sayd to his disciples You cannot haue me alwaies By these and many such places in this ancient father it is manifest that in those daies there was no such opinion held of the carnall presence AN APPENDIX TO THIS QVESTION WHETHER it stand with the power and will of God that Christs bodie should be carnally present in the Sacrament The Papists THere are two difficulties or impossibilities which doe hinder the reall presence of Christs bodie in the Sacrament First it would follow that a natural bodie such as Christs is might be in two places at once for they say that it is in heauen and in the Eucharistall at once Secondly that a naturall bodie may be in a place and yet not occupie or fill a place for if Christs bodie be in the Sacrament it occupieth no place the compasse of a thinne and round cake is not answerable to the proportion of Christs bodie Notwithstanding both these difficulties it is agreeable both to the power and good pleasure of God that the bodie of Christ should be included in the Sacrament Bellarm. Argum 1. It is possible for the bodie of Christ to be in many places at once and it also standeth with his will as Act. 9.4 Christ appeared to Saul either vpon the earth or in the ayre next to the earth for how could he either heare the voyce of Christ sitting in heauen or see the light so farre off Ergo Christ was in two places he appeared to Paul vpon earth and he was at the same time in heauen from whence he shall not moue till the day of iudgement Bellarm de sacram Eucharist lib. 3. cap. 3. Rhemist Act. 9. sect 1. Ans. First the text is plaine that Christ spake from heauen from whence the light shined vers 3. he was neither in the ayre nor vpon the earth Secondly doe you make question whether Paul could see a light or heare a voyce from so farre seeing that the Sunne whose bodie is so farre distant from vs doth disperse his beames ouer the face of the earth and the voyce of the thunder is hearâ—â—ery farre Will ye denie Christ to haue that power which we see to be in his creatures Thirdly and why was it not as possible that Christ from heauen should be heard of Paul as he was seene of Stephen sitting on the right hand of God Act. 7.56 Argum. 2. The bodie of Christ may be where it pleaseth him and yet shall not need any naturall place or occupie any roome he is able to bring a Camel through the eye of a needle Math. 20.26 He also came through the doores in to his Apostles rose out of the sepulchre thorow the stone was borne his mothers wombe being shut therefore he may as well and is no doubt present vnder the shapes of bread and wine in the Sacrament Rhemist Math. 26. sect 11. Bellarm. lib. 3. de Sacram. cap. 6. Ans. 1. Christ sheweth in that place that it is as impossible for a rich man that is high minded and trusteth in his riches to enter into heauen as for a Camell to passe through the eye of a needle but it is possible with God to giue rich men humble and lowly minds and so make them fit for his kingdome as to make the Camell lesse and so draw him thorow a needle It is not proued out of this place that God can or will draw the huge bodie of a Camell through a needle remaining still of that bignes no more then that it is possible for God to bring a proud rich arrogant man to heauen his affections not altered both these are impossible to God because they are contrarie to his wil and ordinance the one is against the law of iustice to bring a wicked man to heauen the other against the law of nature 2. For the other three examples it is not proued out of scripture that the bodie of Christ pearced the doores the graue stone or his mothers wombe although the doores were found shut after Christs entrance the graue couered and his mother remained a Virgine still for all these passages might giue place for a while to the bodie of Christ and returne againe to their place as the red sea was diuided till the Israelites passed and afterward the waters came together againe And concerning the last instance of the birth of Christ it is certaine out of the scriptures that Christ opened the wombe of his mother in his birth Luk. 2.23 Hetherto therefore they haue proued nothing The Protestants OVr aduersaries doe falsely charge vs to say that God can doe no more then he hath done or will do Rhemist Math. 26. sect 11. This we say that Christ is almightie and yet can doe nothing against his owne will his word or glorie as to dishonor his glorious bodie and to bring it within the compasse of a piece of bread that it may be deuoured of cats dogges rats mice or which is worse to be eaten of wicked men the members of the diuell although the question be not so much betweene vs what Christ is able to doe of his absolute power but what he will doe according to his word Fulk Math. 17. sect 1. Argum. 1. It standeth neither with the power or will of God to doe contrarie to his word For it is impossible that God should lye Hebr. 6.18 And this thing not to lye is not a waÌ„t of power but a signe of greater power in God But it is plainly declared in scripture that Christ hath a true naturall bodie and is in all things like vnto vs Hebr. 2.17 Therefore neither can his bodie being a true humane bodie as ouâ—s are be in many places at once neither can it choose but occupie that roome and place where it is The Angel sayd He is risen he is not here Math. 28.6 but it had been no good argument to say he is risen and gone to another place and therefore he is not here if so be the bodie of Christ might be in many places at once The scripture then hath defined it that Christs bodie is in one certaine place wherefore to say that Christ hath a true naturall bodie and yet retaineth not the naturall properties of a bodie is to speake contradictories that he hath and hath not a true naturall bodie and this were to make God a
in heauen and not vpon the earth 3. What a strange saying is this that Christ giueth his flesh to be eatē in the Sacrament yet hideth it vnder the formes of bread and wine lest men should abhorre to eate it for is it to be thought that Christ would command any vnseemely thing or contrary to humanitie How could the Apostles command the Gentiles to abstaine frō strangled blood Act. 15. whē as by your doctrine they did eate dayly in their assemblies the raw flesh and blood of Christ And how is it that Christ now forgetteth his owne rule He that doth the truth sayth he commeth to the light that his deedes may be made manifest Iohn 3.21 But Christ now flieth the light shrowdeth himselfe vnder the shape of bread and wine and wil not shew his flesh These therefore are but sillie causes which you haue rendered why Christ would haue the substance of bread onely changed and not the accidents The Protestants AS the name of transubstantiation is straunge and newly deuised so is the meaning thereof most vnreasonable that in the Sacrament the substance of bread should be conuerted into the bodie of Christ the formes onely remaining An opinion contrary to scripture reason and common sense Argum. 1. As Christ said Math. 26. pointing to the bread This is my body so he sayth Iohn 6.35 I am the bread but in this place he was not changed into bread why then in the other place should the bread be turned into his body for the speech is all one Argum. 2. The bread in the Eucharist after the consecration is subiect to diuers changes and alterations and so likewise the wine for they may be boyled and made hot they may be infected with poyson for it is certaine that Victor the 3. Pope and Henry the 7. Emperour were poysoned with the Sacrament the wine may waxe sower and turne to vineger the bread may putrifie and breed wormes Ergo the substance of bread and wine remaine still for the accidents cannot be subiect to such alterations and to say that Christs bodie may be thus handled it were great impietie Argum. Pet. Martyris Bellarmine answereth Materia substituitur à Deo in ipso instanti in quo desinunt esse illae species God supplieth some other matter in the very instant when the formes begin to be changed Cap. 24. argum 6. Ans. Is not here good geare thinke you that if a man should come to poyson the Sacrament that is the bread and wine which are alreadie consecrate and made the bodie of Christ God should supplie by a miracle some other matter for him to worke vpon and so God himselfe should be accessarie vnto that wicked act Or if a sillie mouse should be so bold as gnaw vpon a consecrate Host that then likewise some other matter and substance should for that instant be appoynted and so God shall make miracles for mice And why I pray you may not the substance of bread still remaine as well as another substance to be put in the stead thereof Arg. 3. When Christ spake these words Hoc est corpus meum the bread was transubstantiate before or after or while the words were spoken Before they will not say for the elements were not then consecrate nor after for thē Christs words This is my bodie had not been true in that instant when they were spoken Neither was the transubstantiation wrought in the while of speaking for then should it not haue been done all at once but successiuely and one part after another as the words were spoken one after another But this is also contrarie to the opinion of the Papists that would haue it done all together Argum. 4. It is against the nature and propertie of accidents and externall formes to be without a subiect or substance wherein they should rest such are the whitenes and roundnes of the bread the rednes and sweetnes of wine if bread be gone what is become of the roundnes and whitenes and so of the wine If a man aske what round or white thing is this or what red and sweete thing is this shewing the cup what shall be answered we cannot say it is bread or wine for there is none left And I am sure they will not say that the bodie of Christ is either round or white or such like and yet somewhat there must needes be that must take denomination of these accidents Argum. 5. You say the very flesh of Christ that did hang vpon the Crosse is in the Sacrament but that cannot be for that flesh Christ tooke of the Virgine Mary this sacramentall flesh is made of bread Ergo it is not the same flesh which was crucified vpon the Crosse. Bellarm. The bodie of Christ is made of bread but not as any matter or materiall cause thereof but as the wine was made of water by our Sauiour Christ. Ans. And I pray you how was the wine made of the water was not the water the very matter which was turned into wine for one of these three changes and mutations it must needes haue first either the water was annihilate and turned to nothing and so the wine was created of nothing which I am sure you will not graunt secondly or els there was a mixture of wine and water the one being mingled with the other which is likewise false for it was very good and perfect wine neither I thinke will you easily admit that the bodie of Christ and the bread are mingled together in the Sacrament Thirdly there remaineth but the third kind of change that is the conuersion of one substance into another as the water was changed into wine and so is the substance of bread conuerted into the substance of Christs bodie if you will haue any chaunge at all and thus Christ hath gotten by your helpe a breaden bodie another from that which he tooke of the flesh of the Virgine Lastly the diuersitie of opinions which this grosse conceit of the carnall presence of Christ hath hatched doe easily shew and demonstrate vnto vs what we are to thinke of this popish doctrine Some doe hold that the elements doe still remaine in their owne nature in the Sacrament and that together with them the bodie of Christ is carnally present Others doe teach that there remaineth no more bread and wine but onely the verie naturall bodie of Christ of each opinion there are three sorts First of them that hold the elements not to be chaunged 1. Some are of opinion that the bodie of Christ and the elements are locally ioyned together either for that instant onely or els because of the vbiquitie and omnipresence of Christs humanitie of which opinion are the Lutherans 2. Some there were that thought onely so much of the bread to be changed into the bodie of Christ as was receiued of the faithfull and that part which the wicked receiued to be bread still 3. Others taught that the bread was assumed in the Sacrament to the
this side and on that now on the right hand againe on the left to sigh to smite vpon his breast to lift vp the Chalice and shew it to the people and set it downe againe as also the diuiding of the host into three parts which signifie three parts of the Church in heauen in earth and in purgatorie the rinsing of part thereof in wine and eating part drie the washing of his fingers before consecration kissing of the altar the patten the booke the paxe sprinkling of holy water censing of odors crossing the chalice the bread their mouth breast and face which signe of the crosse they make aboue twentie times in one Masse while Adde also vnto these their tedious yrksome songs the rude noyse and vnedifying sound of strange instruments and the whole course of their Masse musicke set forth in a strange language and endited to the honour of Saints All these superstitious rites with diuers more vaine vnfruitfull abominable they notwithstanding with force and maine defend and maintaine Bellarm lib. 2. de missa cap. 14.15 Concil Tridâ—ntin sess 22. caâ— 7. The Protestants 1. THis multitude of humane inuentions agreeth not with the institution of the Lords Supper for we reade not of any such kissing kneeling becking bowing or the like ridiculous gestures to haue been vsed when our Sauiour instituted the Supper nor afterwards by the Apostles to haue been practised wherefore wee contenting our selues with the plaine institution of Christ doe worthily reiect all such toyes 2. Most of these gestures are impious and tend to idolatrie in the adoration of bread and wine which are but creatures and they are all friuolous and hypocriticall stealing away true deuotion from the heart and making men to rest in the outward gestures of the bodie Augustine sayth very well Corpus genibus flexis prosternis collum curuas in oratione video vbi iaciat corpus sed quaero vbi volitet animus Thou bowest the knee bendest thy bodie in prayer stretchest out thy necke I see where thy bodie lieth but what is become of thy soule 3. Concerning Church songs and Musicke Augustine thus writeth Sâ—briè Psallimus in Ecclesia diuina cantica Prophetarum We sing treatably and soberly in the Church the diuine songs of the Prophets Two conditions he requireth first that we sing holy Psalmes taken out of the scriptures Secondly that they be sung treatably and distinctly Etiam illic sayth he si sonum non sensum libido audiendi desideret improbatur Euen in good songs if we follow the sound not the sense it is to be discommended but in popish songs neither of these conditions is kept for both the dittie for the most part is idolatrous stuffed with inuocation and adoration of Saints and the note is so diuided and drawne out in length that nothing can be vnderstood THE EIGHT QVESTION OF THE FORME OF THE Masse which consisteth partly of the Canon partly of such things as are rehearsed before and after the Canon THE FIRST PART OF THE PRAIERS WHICH goe before the Canon of the Masse WE doe not vtterly condemne whatsoeuer is sayd or sung in their Leiturgie or Masse for as they haue their introite so we doe bid the people after due preparation in our Communions to draw neere We haue also our Confiteor a confession of sinnes to be said before the Communion Other formes also which haue been vsed of ancient time we doe not refuse as Dominus vobiscum The Lord be with you Kyrieeleson Lord haue mercie of vs Sursum corda Lift vp your hearts with Alleluia praised be God and Sanctus Sanctus holy holy and Gloria in excelsis Glorie be to God on high the preface also to the Communion Verè dignum iustum est It is meete right and our bounden duetie And we vse also the Lords praier after the distribution These formes we mislike not vsing the same our selues which notwithstanding we borrowe not from them but from the ancient and purer ages of the Church But the corruptions additions immutations which are vsed by them in these prefaces to the Masse we doe vtterly condemne as their introite and confiteor is stuft full of idolatry and inuocation of Saints their Kyrieeleson is 9. times repeated in an vnknown toung Eleuation and adoration was brought in by Pope Honorius anno 1222. the Agnus was deuised by Pope Sergius ann 700. the Pax by Innocentius plura apud Foxum p. 1403. THE SECOND PART OF THE Canon of the Masse The Papists 1. FIrst the forme of their Masse they haue they say by tradition from the Apostles error 139 Rhemist 1. Cor. 11. sect 22. The Protestants THeir owne authors doe testifie that euery patch of their Masse was thrust in by Popes later then the Apostles as by Leo the 1. Gregory the 1. Gregory the 3. Innocentius the 3. Honorius the 3. with many other yea Gregory the 1. confesseth that one Scholasticus made the most part of the Canon Ergo it was not deuised by the Apostles Bellarmine answereth that Gregory setteth not downe any one man by this name Scholasticus but meaneth generally some notable learned man and in this sense S. Peter saith he which was the author of the Canon may be called Scholasticus Bellarm. cap. 19. Ans. This deuise of the Iesuite is rather to be laughed at then to be confuted who euer heard before that S. Peter and the other Apostles were Scholastici Schoolemen what is this els but to set the spirite of God to schoole in saying that the Apostles being men endued with the holy Ghost were brought vp in Schooles Againe Gregory findeth fault with the said Scholasticus that in composing the Canon he would put in his own praiers and leaue out the Lords praier but if this Scholasticus had beene Peter I think Gregory would not haue beene so bolde as to haue rebuked him The Papists 2. THe Canon of the Masse they say is perfect and absolute voide of all error and therefore not to be changed or abrogated Concil Trident. sess 22. can 6. Bellarm. cap. 21. The Protestants BVt we on the contrary side more truly and agreeably to Scripture doubt not to say that there can be nothing more corrupt abominable fuller of all impiety heresie lying then is their idolatrous sacrifice of the Masse as it shall now more particularly appeare by the collection of the seuerall errors THE ERRORS AND BLASPHEMIES that are to be found in the Canon of the Masse 1. THe Priest speaking of the bread and wine thus saith Which we offer vnto thee for thy holy Catholike Church and againe afterward Which we offer for the redemption of their soules What great blasphemie is this to offer bread wine for the redemption of the Church for the which Christ in great loue offered vp himselfe 2. The Priest saith Worshipping the memoriall of the Virgine But Christ instituted the Sacrament to be kept in remembrance of himselfe and not for the worship of Saints 3. By
questions wherein we dissent from our aduersaries both as touching all the offices of Christ his propheticall office kingdome and priesthood as likewise concerning the benefites purchased by the death of Christ the benefites of our redemption and saluation Now in the last place we are to prosecute such matters in question betweene vs as doe concerne the natures of Christ. And this treatise containeth three controuersies First of the humane nature of Christ. Secondly of his diuine nature Thirdly of them both considered together THE EIGHTEENTH GENERAL CONTROVERSIE CONCERNING THE HVMANE NATVRE OF CHRIST THis Controuersie is diuided into these questions First of the vbiquitie of the humanitie of Christ. Secondly whether he encreased in wisedome Thirdly whether he suffered in soule Fourthly whether he descended into Hell Fiftly concerning the place of Hell THE FIRST QVESTION OF THE VBIQVITIE OF the bodie of Christ whether his humanitie be euery where The Papists THey doe seeme in words mightily to impugne this opinion of the Vbiquitaries error 97 as they are called which doe erroniously hold that the humanitie of Christ is euery where as his deitie is and that the properties of one nature are really imparted vnto the other whereupon it followeth that the humanitie of Christ is euery where because it is verely vnited and made one person with the Godhead in Christ. This opinion the Papists would be thought to detest and abhorre and the Iesuite bestoweth great paines by sundrie arguments to confute it as by diuers places of scripture Math. 28. He is risen he is not here vers 6. Iesus sayd Lazarus is dead and I am glad for your sakes that I was not there Ioh. 11.4 Ergo Christ as he is man is not euery where Againe the opinion of the Vbiquitaries doth ouerthrow the article of Christs ascension for if Christs bodie be euery where as they hold he can neither ascend nor descend Bellarm. de Incarnation verbi lib. 3. cap. 11.12 The Protestants IT is true Catholique and sound doctrine that the humane and diuine nature are truely vnited in Christ and doe make but one person or hypostasis neither by confusion of the natures nor conuersion of one into the other but by vnitie of person for as the bodie and soule make one man so God and man is one Christ. And the better to vnderstand this mysterie we must set downe these three positions 1. Though the two natures in Christ be so vnited that they make but one person yet neither the natures are confounded nor yet the properties but as Christ is both God and man so there is in him a double power will and vnderstanding one humane and created the other diuine and vncreated 2. By reason of this vnion all the excellent graces of the spirit in the highest degree and aboue measure are giuen and bestowed vpon the humanitie of Christ Ioh. 3.34 but such notwithstanding as destroy not his humane nature but are qualities created as his humanitie also was created 3. There is also a mutuall communication of the proprieties of both natures each to other though not really in respect of the natures So we say in Concreto in the concrete that is taking the whole person of Christ that Christus homo that is the man Christ is omnipotent is euery where and Christus Deus that is Christ being God died for vs was buried rose againe but in the abstract it is great blasphemie to say that the Godhead of Christ died was buried or rose againe or that the humanitie of Christ is omnipotent or in euery place The Vbiquitaries now hold that there is a reall communication of the proprieties of both natures therfore doubt not to say that the flesh and bodie of Christ is euery where in all places at once The Papists in outward shew are enemies to that opinion but indeed and in truth as it shall now appeare they are not farre off from being in the same error First the same arguments which they vrge against the Vbiquitaries doe returne vpon themselues for although they will not say that Christs bodie is euerie where yet they hold that it may bee in a thousand places at once yea and more to if the Sacrament be at once in so many places celebrated for Christs bodie is reallie and verely in the Sacrament But those places alleadged He is risen he is not heere and the rest doe proue that Christ can be but in one place at once This their opinion also is against the article of Christs ascension and abiding in heauen till the day of iudgement for if the same bodie wherein Christ sitteth in heauen be in the Sacrament either when he is present in earth he is absent in heauen contrary to the scripture Act. 3.21 which sayth The heauens must containe him till that all things be restored or els if he be in both places at once they must needes make his bodie infinite and so destroy the nature of his humanitie which can be but in one place If they say it is another bodie and flesh which Christ by his diuine power maketh to bee present in the Sacrament that were much more absurd for then Christ should haue many bodies and other flesh then that which was borne of the Virgine Mary We see then they are not farre off from the opinion of the Vbiquitaries 2. The Rhemists doe approue that argument whereby Hierome proueth that the Saints may euery where be present at their bodies monuments They follow the Lambe whither soeuer he goeth but the Lambe is in euery place therefore they that be with the Lambe Christ be present euery where Whereupon it followeth that the Lambe Christ in humanitie must be euery where for how can he be present els in innumerable places at once where any reliques or monuments of Saints are Neither can they excuse this vbiquitarie presence of the humanitie of Christ and the soules of Saints by their agilitie and celeritie because they can quickly passe from one place to another for if they must bee present at their monuments whensoeuer they are called vpon they must of necessitie be often in many places at once for in one and the same instant men may resort to their monuments which are in diuers places farre asunder Thus they are driuen not onely to graunt an vbiquitie or omnipresence of the humanitie of Christ but euen of Saints also which those whom they call Vbiquitaries would neuer graunt 3. The bodie of Christ is visible and palpable now in heauen and hath a place according to the quantitie of his bodie Bellarmine confesseth as much cap. 12. But that bodie which is in the Sacrament hath none of these properties it is neither seene nor felt neither hath a place according to the quantitie of a bodie for they close it vp in small round cakes Wherfore destroying these properties of the humanitie of Christ they may as well and do in effect take away the other namely the being of Christs bodie in
of his abasing and humiliation Fulke annot in hunc locum as S. Paul saith That he made himselfe of no reputation and tooke vpon him the forme of a seruant Philip. 2.7 The Protestants THat Christ our Sauiour by the vertue of his death did ouercome hel and the deuill we doe verily beleeue which may be called a discent into hell that he also suffered the torments of hell vpon the crosse and so descended into hell for vs to abide that bitter paine which we had deserued to suffer eternally we doe also holde and teach for what rather may be called hell then the anguish of soule which he suffered when he being God yet complained that he was forsaken of God Furthermore if descending into hell be taken according to the Hebrew phrase For entring into the state of the dead so we also graunt that Christ descended into hell Fulk Act. 2. sect 11. But for the descending of Christ into hell after your sense to deliuer the Patriarkes from thence when you can proue it out of Scripture we will yeelde vnto you 1. The soule of Christ which he committed into his Fathers hands was in Paradise where he promised the theefe should be with him Luke 22.43 How then could his soule be three daies in hell as you affirme from the time of his death to his resurrection Fulke Luke 11. sect 4. Bellarm. answereth that it was not impossible that the soule of Christ should be in two places at once cap. 15. which is an answere not worthy to be answered for who hath taught them so boldly to builde their phantasies vpon Gods power hauing no warrant not assurance of his wil May not the Vbiquitaries by the same reason proue the omnipresence of Christs humanity because he is able to make his soule and body to be in many places at once as well as in two and so consequently by his power which is infinite as well in all places as in many 2. We beleeue that the Patriarkes and godly Fathers were in heauen or Paradise as well before the resurrection of Christ as after for in as much as they were iustified by faith in his blood they receiued the same crowne and reward of righteousnes that we doe being iustified by the same meanes This we haue proued more at large controu 9. quest 1. Wherefore seeing there were none in hell which they call Limbus Patrum to be deliuered there was no such cause why Christ should descend into hell Therefore he descended not to deliuer the Patriarkes that remained in darkenes 3. They agree not among theÌ„selues about this article of Christs descension to deliuer the Patriarkes Andradius saith it caÌ„not be proued out of Scripture but Bellarmine and our Rhemists doe bring their best arguments for it out of Scripture they alleadge also diuers causes of his descension the Romane Catechisme rendreth two reasons one to set the Patriarkes at liberty the other to manifest the power and vertue of his death in hell but that S. Paul saith was sufficiently manifested and made knowne vpon the crosse Colos. 2.15 Thomas Aquinas beside these addeth a third that as Christ died for vs to free vs from death so it was conuenient that he should descend into hell to deliuer vs from the descension into hell as though Christ by his death did not fully deliuer vs from eternall damnation Some other holde that Christ went thither to suffer the torments of hell that he might fully pay our raunsome by suffering the whole punishmeÌ„t due vnto mankinde but this is a very grosse and erronious opinion for Christ suffered fully in body and soule vpon the Crosse when he cried Consummatum est It is finished that is he had fully appeased the wrath of God by his sufferings Augustine saith plainely that he knew not what good Christ wrought for the iust soules that were in the bosome of Abraham when he descended into hell a quib eum secundum beatificaÌ„ praesentiam diuinitatis nunquam video recessisse From whom I finde hee was neuer absent or withdrew himselfe by the blessed presence of his diuine power Ergo in his iudgement Christ descended not to deliuer the Patriarkes And concerning the soule of Christ he writeth flatly Si mortuo corpore anima latronis ad Paradisum mox vocatur quempiam adhuc tam impium credimus qui dicere audeat quoniam anima Saluatoris nostri triduo illo corporâ—ae mortis apud inferos custodiae mancipetur If the soule of the theefe straightway being gone from the body was called vp to heauen is there any man so wicked to say that the soule of our Sauiour was kept three daies in the prison of hel By his sentence then the soule of Christ passed straight to heauen and descended not to hell AN APPENDIX CONCERNING the place of Hell The Papists THe place where damned spirites are tormented they say is about the center of the earth the lowest of all places and nothing lower then it Bellarm. de error 102 Christi anima lib. 4. cap. 10. Their Limbus Patrum the place of darkenes where the Fathers were before Christ is say they in the highest parte and as it were the brimme of hel Rhemist Luke 1â— 22 Betweene these two places there is a great gulfe or space and there is Purgatory Rhemist Luk. 16. sect 8. Wherefore they conclude veros inferos esse loca subterranea That the subterrestriall and infernall places doe properly make hell Bellarm. cap. 8. And so hell should be properly a place of punishmeÌ„t because of the farre distance from heauen whereas not so much the distance of place as the absence of Gods spirite and losse of his fauour maketh it a place of horror and miserie Argum. 1. Math. 12.40 As Ionas was three daies and three nights in the belly of the Whale so the sonne of man must be in the hart of the earth but the graue is not in the hart but the brimme of the earth Ergo we must needes vnderstand Hell which is in the midst of the earth Bellarm. cap. 12. Ans. 1. This place cannot otherwise be applied then to signifie the burial of Christ and his abode in the graue and his rising againe the third day of his soule it cannot properly be meant for Christ saith he will giue them the signe of Ionas in himselfe but a signe is conspicuous visible and apparent how could then the descending of his soule be a signe vnto them which they knew not neither could see But the laying of his body into the graue and the remaining there to the third day they were all eye witnesses of Also there is great affinity betweene the two Greeke words 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a signe which is there vsed Math. 12.40 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which signifieth sepulchrum a graue the one word being fitly deriued of the other what better 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 then could he giue them then 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 his owne graue or Sepulchre Secondly to
men nor Apostolike giftes wee are not to doubt but that this promise and prophesie of the vniuersall preaching of the Gospell is performed already Argum. 2. It appeareth in Ecclesiasticall histories that the Apostles dispersed themselues into all partes of the worlde euery where preaching the Gospell Thomas preached to the Parthians Medes Persians also to the Germanes Simon Zelotes in Mauritania Africa and in Britania Iudas called Thaddaeus in Mesopotamia Mark in Aegypt Bartholomaeus to the Indians Andrew preached to the Scythians Sogdians Aethopians So that there were fewe or no knowen countreyes in the world which heard not of the fame of the Gospell But here two things must be obserued First that the Gospel was to bee preached in the habitable or knowen world the word is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Many countreyes are inhabited now that were not habitable then or at the least not inhabited wherefore it was sufficient that the people of the world heard of the Gospel howsoeuer afterward they were propagated into other vnknowen places Secondly as Augustine sayth Omnes gentes promissae sunt non omnes homines omnium gentium All nations were promised to heare of the Gospel not all the men and inhabitants of euery nation And so we doubt not but the Apostles did lay the foundation of fayth through the whole worlde and were first planters of the Churches in euery nation But their plantings were watered and encreased and continued by others Wherefore seeing the world hath once already beene generally lightened with the truth of the Gospell we are not to looke any more for a solemne legacie and ambassage to be sent from the Lord vnto all nations But those countreyes rather which somtime had the trueth and now haue lost it ought now to seeke vnto those places that haue it as the Queene of Saba went a long iourney to heare Salomons wisdome They therefore that yet doe expect an vniuersall preaching may sooner see Christ comming in the cloudes then haue their expectation satisfied THE SECOND QVESTION OF THE comming of Henoch and Elias before the day of iudgement The Papists error 107 THeir common and receiued opinion is that Henoch and Elias doe yet liue in their bodies in Paradise and shall come in person to oppose themselues against Antichrist and by their preaching to conuert the Iewes Rhemist Apocal. 11. sect 4. Argum. Malachie 4.5 I will send you Eliah the Prophet before the great and fearefull day of the Lorde These are also the two witnesses spoken of Apocal. 11.3 Which shall be slaine and rise vp againe the third day Ergo Eliah and Henoch shall come before the day of the Lorde Bellarm. de Roman pontif 3.6 Ans. First the prophesie of Malachie was fulfilled in Iohn Baptist who came in the spirite of Elias as it is thrise in the Gospell applied once by the Angel Luk. 1.16 twise by our Sauiour Christ Matth. 11.14 17.13 Bellarmine saith it is not properly vnderstoode of Iohn Baptist but onely in an allegorie First the Prophet speaketh of the great and fearefull day of the Lord but the comming of Christ was the acceptable time Ans. Here the Iesuite bewrayeth great ignorance As though the comming of Christ in the flesh as it brought comfort to the Elect to as many as were ordeined to saluation was not also hastening of the iudgement of God against the wicked and therefore Iohn saith The axe was laide to the roote of the tree Matth. 3.10 and that Christ came with his fanne in his hand verse 12. The Apostle Heb. 12.26 applieth that saying of the Prophet Once againe wil I shake not onely the heauens but the earth to the preaching of the Gospell wee see then in what sence the first comming of Christ is called a fearefull and terrible day Ans. Secondly by the two witnesses is vnderstood the small yet sufficient number of the true seruants of God which shall witnesse the truth euen in the whottest persecution of Antichrist there is no mention made of Henoch or Elias And if you will needs vnderstand that literally of their rising againe why not the rest also how fire shall proceede out of their mouthes to consume the wicked and they shall turne water into blood The meaning is nothing else but that God will alwaies haue faithfull witnesses in his Church which shall alwaies stand vp in the stead of the Prophets and holy men gone before The Protestants LIke as the Pharisies deceiued the Iewes with vaine expectation of Elias and so hindred their beliefe in Christ so the Papists would not haue men to acknowledge the manifestation of Antichrist vnder this false pretence that Henoch and Elias must first come before Antichrist bee reuealed which wee doe hold as a Iewish fable and popish dreame Argum. 1. The Prophesie of Elias comming is properly fulfilled in Iohn Baptist and therefore wee are not to looke for any other accomplishment thereof neither now is there any Paradise remaining but Heauen 2. Corinth 12.4 And to affirme that Henoch and Elias went vp to Heauen in their bodies before the ascension of Christ out of Scripture it cannot be proued it is euident that they were taken vp aliue into heauen but not that they continued aliue Argum. 2. The varietie of opinions concerning the personall appearance of Henoch and Elias declare that it is an vncertaine thing and but deuised of men Hilarye saith they shal be Moses and Elias Chrysostome granteth that Elias shall come but not Henoch Iustine thinketh that not onely Henoch and Elias are aliue but all those whose bodies rose at the resurrection of Christ Hippolytus is of opinion that Iohn the Diuine shall come with them and some say Ieremie also whose death is not read of Fulk Apocal. 11. sect 4. And thus it is no meruaile if men run mad as it were in their foolish conceites hauing no warrant for their opinions out of Scriptures The nation of the Iewes wee grant according to the manifest prophesie of Saint Paul shall in the end be conuerted but not in such sort by the personall preaching of Moses and Elias for the Apostle setting downe at large the mysterie of their calling would not haue left out so necessarie a thing Augustine by the two witnesses vnderstandeth the two testaments the Old and the new But hee denieth vtterly that any shall rise before the comming of Christ as the Apostle saith 1. Corinth 15.23 The first fruites is Christ Then they that are Christs at his comming but not before Vnde saith he excluditur omnis suspicio quorundam qui putant hos duos testes duos viros esse ante aduentum Christi coelum in nubibus ascendisse Their suspition therefore or opinion is vtterly excluded which thinke these two witnesses to bee two men which should ascend into heauen before the comming of Christ. Augustine we see is flat against them THE THIRD PART WHETHER THE most grieuous persecutions that euer were shall be toward the end
of the world The Papists error 108 THe most grieuous persecution say they that euer was shall be vnder Antichrist who is not yet come but shall bee reuealed toward the end of the world and shall raigne vpon the earth three yeares and an halfe making great hauock of the Church of God Bellarmine de Roman pontifi lib. 3. cap. 7. Argum. Matth. 24.21 There shall bee then such great tribulation in the world as was not since the beginning of the world neither shall bee Ergo the greatest persecution toward the end of the world Ans. 1. It is plaine by the text that this great tribulation is prophesied to come vpon the Iewes for in the next verse before he saith pray that your flight be not in the winter And then it followeth there shall bee then or as Marke saith In those dayes there shall be such tribulation 13.19 and in the 17. verse Woe shall be to them that giue suck in those dayes Which must needes bee vnderstoode of the destruction of Ierusalem for at the comming of Christ there shall be one and the same case of all whether of those that giue suck or of those that giue none Secondly it cannot be meant of the last tribulation in the world because the words are that as there was none such since the beginning of the world so there shall be none such after Ergo there shall be tribulation after though none such The Protestants OVr hope and trust is that the greatest persecution of the Church of God is ouerpast because the kingdome or rather tyrannie of Antichrist beginneth to decay and wee trust shall more and more bee shaken till it come to vtter ruine Argum. 1. The Scripture telleth vs that hard vpon the end of the worlde there shall bee great securitie men shall say Peace peace vnto themselues 1. Thesal 5.4 They shall eate and drinke marrie and bee married as it was in the dayes of Noah Matth. 24.38 And therefore Luke saith 21.34 Take heede you be not ouercome of surfeiting and drunkennes least this day come vpon you vnawares For as a snare shall it come c. All this proueth that there shall be rather generall securitie as in the dayes of Noah then generall tribulation And there is greater danger of surfeiting wantonnes in time of prosperitie and abundance then in the dayes of persecution Also the text is plaine speaking of warres troubles and persecutions but the end shall not be yet Mark 13.7 Wherefore it appeareth that the troubles and persecutions of the Church shall be well slaked toward the end of the world Argum. 2. Antichrist though he shall not vtterly bee extinguished before the comming of Christ yet shall be deadly wounded and hee shall begin to be iudged euen in this world Apocal. 16.6 God shal giue them blood to drink Apocal. 17.16 The ten hornes that is the kinges of the earth shall hate the whore and eate her flesh The Church of God shall reward her as she hath rewarded vs and giue her double according to her workes Apocal. 18.6 By these places it is gathered that Antichrist shal haue a great ouerthrow before the comming of Christ who shall vtterly abolish him with the brightnes of his comming 2. Thes. 2.8 Antichrist is alreadie come and hath raged a long time against the Church The persecutions of the heathen did neither continue so long neither were in exquisite crueltie and bitternes to be compared to the outragious practises of the Antichrist of Rome and his adherents against the Church of God which would fill a whole volume by themselues nay not one but many and infinite volumes to be declared at large Augustine saith Prima persecutio violenâ—◠〈…〉 tormentis â—lterafraudulenta est per haereticos tertia superest per Antichristum 〈◊〉 quâ— nihil est â—ericulosius quia violenta fraudulenta erit The first persecution of the Church was violent with torments the second was by fraudulent heretikes the third shal be vnder Antichrist the worst of all it shal be both violent and fraudulent This persecution vnder the Popes of Rome the Church of God endured a great while who both dealt fraudulentlie in poysoning them with corrupt doctrine and cruellie also in punishing with sword and fire the innocent members of Christ wherefore seeing it is a plaine case that Antichrist is and hath been many a day reuealed to the world and that the Church of God beginneth to haue some respit and libertie from his thraldome wee doubt not but that the greatest stormes of persecution are ouerpast if by our sinnes wee bring not back againe the thick and mistie cloude vpon vs. THE SECOND PART OF THIS CONtrouersie about the manner of Christs comming to iudgement The Papists error 109 1. THe faithful shal iudge and giue sentence with Christ say they at the latter day Rhemist 1. Corinth 6. vers 2. They shall sit in thrones with Christ Matth. 19. vers 28. Ergo iudge together with him Rhemist ibid. The Protestants Ans. 1. TRue it is that the Saints shal iudge the world 1. Corinth 6.2 But only Christ shall giue sentence Matth. 25. and is properly and onelie the iudge of the world for the father hath committed al iudgemeÌ„t to the Sonne Iohn 5.22 If all then there is no part left for any other The Apostles therefore and Saints are said to iudge as Christ saith of his word that hee will not iudge the vnbeleeuers but his word shall iudge them in the last day Iohn 12.48 That is shall bee a witnesse against them accuse them lay in matter of iudgement against them So the word preached by the Saints vpon earth and practised in their liues shall bee the condemnation of the worlde And not onely so but they shall bee aduanced to greater honor They shall sit in thrones and seates that is they shall not stand amongst the wicked to receiue sentence but shall meete Christ in the ayre and bee caught vp in the cloudes 1. Thess. 4.17 Yea they shall in the sight and beholding of the vngodly enter into the kingdome of God Luk. 13.28 But in any other sence they cannot be iudges of the world for shall we thinke that Christ in that day shall neede vnder officers and iudges as Moses did Exod. â—8 Augustine saith Sancti sedebunt cum domino attendere qui fecerunt misericordiaâ—â— The Saints shall â—it with the Lord not to iudge but to marke and attend and to witnesse who haue followed the workes of mâ—â—cie The Papists 2 THey are so bold as to appoint the place where Christ shall appeare namely error 110 in the East for his comming shall bee as the lightening that shineth from East to West Matth. 24.27 Bellarm. de cultu sanctor lib. 3. cap. 3. The Protestants Ans. FIrst by that similitude Christ onely sheweth the suddennes of his comming therefore it must be prest no further then to that purpose for the which it serueth Secondly our Sauiour saith plainely that the