fall into hell Or if they vnderstand it not so wherefore do they sing in the offertory of the Masse for the dead Domine Iesu Christi c. That is to say O Lord Iesu Christ king of glory deliuer the soules of all the faithfull that dye from the paines of hell and from the déepe lake Deliuer theÌ„ from the Lions mouth least the in hell he deuour theÌ„ lest the they fal not in the obscure dark places but the S. Michel the standard bearer do represent theÌ„ into the holy light which of late thou diddest promise vnto Abraham and to his seed Thomas Mee thinkes that this is repugnant vnto that which Eusebius hath spoken before and to that which the Priests do sing saying that in hell there is no raunsome nor delyuerance And yet nenerthelesse they pray here in that oâ—fertory vnto Iesus Christ that he wil deliuer them from the paines of hell It must then needes follow that eyther their prayer is vaiue and that they demaunde a thing of God which they do very well knew to be impossible and contrary vnto his will or that there is aswel deliuerance in hell as in Purgatory and that they speake against themselues or els that hell Purgatory be al one thing Eusebius Thy disiunetiue is not good For not withstanding the commonly men take hell for the hell fire and the place of the dampned yet neuerthelesse it may bee vnderstanded more amply for that low places and cositries the estate condicion of the dead after this manner his signification shall comprehende contrine also the Purgatory as it doth in this place here Hillarius We muste then expounde it of the paines of hell that is to say of the paines of Purgatory Eusebius It cannot be vnderstanded otherwise Thomas And what shall we vnderstand by the deepe lake Eusebius The very same Thomas There is then also a lake in Purgatory Hillarius You do well Thomas to be affrayd Did you neuer here before how the priests did pay the seriage for to haue the dead passe ouer It is then necessarye the they haue their fery man Charon for to let passe repasse the soules aswel as the Panims Poets had Now if there be a Charon a fery man he caÌ„not carry ouer soules without the there is seas lakes or ryuers for to caryhis boats scyfes ships barkes gallies Thomas But I am greatly abashed wherfore wée do call those that dye in the french tongue trespasses Thinke that it was bicause that they were already passed from this life in the other But as farre as I can perceiue it is rather bicause that they haue passed ouer those infernall lakes and reuers Hillarius I doe beléeue that the Christians and true faithfull people haue called their dead trespasses signifiyng by that same that the death of the faithfull is no death but only a passage for to enter into life those which are dead in the faith of Iesus Christ according to his promises are passed from death to life And therfore they are rightly called trespasses bicause the they are already passed ouer are come vnto the port of health in which they rest in ioy and consolation w Iesus Christ their Lorde hauing escaped all the dauÌ„gers the great gculfes of the sea of this world of sinne death hell But sithence the the pope hath begun to reign in stéed of Iesus Christ the he hath take the office of Pluto the god of hel of Eacus Minos Rhadamantus and Neoptolemus the infernal iudges as a newe king hée would chauÌ„ge the laws estates habitations maÌ„ners of huing of his subiects the be dead aswel as of those y be aliue endeuoreth himselfe w all his power strength to abolish put out the laws ordinances institutions holy CanoÌ„s inuiolated decrées which Iesus Christ hath giuen aswel to the liuing as to the dead by his prophets apostles passed confirmed ratefied sealed by the arrest of the celestiall beauenly court by the great counsell wisedome of god of the holy trinitie of the father the sonne the holy ghost of all the angels archangels Saincts Sainctes patriarkes apostles Euangelists Martirs Confessors Mirgins to the end y the faithful without any other should haue place in heauen in earth in hell Theophilus He woulde do vnto Iesus Christ as the Romaine Emperors the Popes haue done many times the one against the other making frustrate boyd the which their predecessors haue made ordeined For in asmuch as they haue made Iesus Christ the first pope S. Peter the seconde I thinke the it seemeth good vnto theÌ„ the aswell they maye abrogate make boide their ordinances as they haue done those of other Popes their predecessors changing most ofceÌ„ times the that the first haue ordeyned making frustrate their counsels decrées especially sithence the time of pope Stephen who made boide al the which Formosus his predecessor had don But they do in that great wrong vnto Iesus Christ that sitheÌ„ce he is risen againe there are so many popes risen vp in his place For they wil not suffer that one should choose another whilst they are aliue or if that be done they call him antipope the is chosen in spite of their bearde and hold for scisinaticks aswel him as those that haue chosen him which are Ioyned w him They call him antipope who setteth himself against him wheÌ„ they estéeme to be the true pope eue as we set antichrist against Christ Sith theÌ„ the Iesus Christ is rise froÌ„ death he is immortal shall dye no more but shal abiee dwel eternally with his churche of which he is the only head according to y promise y hee hath made to his disciples saying beld I am with you vntill the ende of the world For asmuch also as that great heaâ—â—nly father of whom proceedeth all fatherly loue y is called y olde aged of whom Daniel speaketh off he hath giuen vnto him al iudgment power seigniory both in heauen in earth hath made him to be called by his prophet the father of the world to come Prince of peace willing y in y name of Iesus should euery knee how both of things in heauen things in earth and thinges vnder the earth I am greatly abashed froÌ„ whence this ouer boldnes rashnes should proceed to create those other popes then he sith y he is alwayes aliue y he is the Lord of y quick and of the dead and his kingdome hath nene ende Hillarius They cannot denie but that they are al Antipopes That is to say contrary and enemies to the true Hope so consequently heritickes and schismatickes For sith y Iesus Christ is the true Christ true Pope that is to say the father of y Christian Church it followeth that they are Antichrists
any more ayde and succour But they shal not be dead for to hurt vs and to eate consume our goods and substaunce It is said in a common prouerb That the dead do not bite But there are none liuing more biting then such dead men except the Priests and Monks which do become vnto vs so biting for to bite vs vnder the name and title of them Theophilus The Pope aduaunceth himselfe to be the liuetenant of S. Peter But wherefore doth he attribute vnto himselfe the office of S. Peter Eusebius Bicause that S. Peter can no more execute it Theophilus Wherefore can he no more exercise execute it Eusebius Bicause y he is no more conuersant among the liuing and bicause he hath ended finished his course and hath ended his ministry among men Theophilus Thou commest nowe to the matter If then Saint Peter hath not belowe the Heauen power to absolue vs nor they of the other worlde those which are in this heere how shall the Pope haue more power for so absolue belowe the earth and they of this world those which are in the other Sith that he attributeth vnto himselfe the office of saint Peter for that that Saint Peter is absent from those that are liuinge wherefore 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 not content himselfe with the liuinge What hath he to doe with the dead If in the other world there be an premission of sinnes and the 〈◊〉 of the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 take place wherefore doth he not leaue 〈◊〉 of the same vnto Saint Peter and to the Prophets Apostles Martyrs and confessors which are there For if it bée néedfull to pardon sinnes to the dead in the other world those which are there present and know their 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 they not better doe it then the Pope 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which 〈◊〉 â—â—â—sent and altogether ignoraunt 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 estate and condition They say that they cannot pardon sinnes to those that be aliue nor absolue them except they confesse themselues vnto them â—â—â— to know and iudge of thâ—m how can they 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and giue 〈◊〉 vnto the soules of the dead 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 not and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 confession nor know whether they be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or not whether they be deâ—eined â— hell 〈◊〉 Purgatorye or already passed and arriued into 〈◊〉 I 〈◊〉 thincke that a liuetenant is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the place of an other which cannot 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 propâ—â— person Then if the Pope be the 〈◊〉 of Saint Peter in this world bicause that S. Peter is no more héere howe can he be his liuetenaunt in the other world in which Saint Peter is and he is not Beholde a sort of liuetenauntes the most straungest that euer was in the world For in stéed to holde and kepe the place in which they ought to be prâ—sent in the name of those that are absent they béeing absent would holde the place in which they cannot be in the name of those which are there present Wherefore I would counsayle the Pope and his to let the dead alone from hencesoorth and to meddle no more with them and that they doe leaue the charge vnto Sainâ—t Peter and to the other Apostles and Saintes which are with them Hillarius If Iesus Christ hath sayd vnto one of his Disciples let the dead bury theâ— dead we may well say vnto those héere let y dead absolue y dead be you careful but for those that be tiâ—ing For I doe assure them that they shall haue inough to doe to gouerne the liuing they shal â—nde themselues more â—indled letted then they thinke and more then they would Wherefore I beléeue that they shall be forced to let the deade alâ—ne and to leaue all the charge vnto Saint Peter and vnto his compaignions or for to speake better 〈◊〉 God which hath both the quick and the dead in his 〈◊〉 Wherefore wée haue no néede to â—â—menâ— neither the quicke nor the â—end vnto y Saints nor Saintes â—ut 〈◊〉 vnto the Lord Iesus who is the Iudge and Sauiour 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the Pope sayth also that he is 〈◊〉 I know not what shall be his Church For if the Pope be liuetenaunt of Iesus Christ and the office of a 〈◊〉 is â—o holde the place of him that is absent it followâ—â—â— then that Iâ—suâ— Christ iâ— not in the Popish Church but h◠〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a 〈◊〉 And so by that meanes the Popish Church shal be without Iesus Christ 〈◊〉 without god Then of necessitie it must be that the Diuell 〈◊〉 and that be is the â—ead and the God as be is the God of this wâ—â—ld For in the Christian Church Iesus Christ hath no néede of a â—â—â—ar neither liuetenant sith that he 〈◊〉 alwayes present and that he hath promised to be in the middest of his Disciples and with them vntill the â—nde of the world Except we will call his â—uly spirit his â—ear after the imitation of Tertulian bicause that it râ—igneth in vs by him and qiutheneth vs â—husebius Mee thinketh that no reason can perswade â—â—â— For the aunswere 〈◊〉 I haue alledged vnto you of Alexander of Ales hath already satisfied all your obiections and replyings 〈◊〉 although that S. Peter and the Apostles are in the other world they are not therefore in Purgatory Wherefore their ministrie their power of their â—eyes cannot be stretched pulled out the â—her but are in heauâ— in which ther is no more néede Theophilus Also â—â— more is the Pope neither the priests I know not whether that their key be longer then that of Saint Peter or whether that there were more space from the heauen vnto Purgatory then from y earth Hillarius But how knowest thou whether that Sainâ— Peter hath caryed his key with him or 〈◊〉 For if the Pope haue it Saint Peter hath it no more Theophilus Saint Peter had two names and was called before Symon Now I beléeue in déede that the Pope may haue the keyes of Symon not of Simon Peter but of Simon Magus the which argée not with the true â—oore which is Iesus Christ nor with the true locke which is the word of God the which is â—â—â—o the true key of knowledge for to open vnto vs the kingdome of heauen Thomas He hath then chaunged the key Theophilus There is nothing truer Thomas And his to what doore doth it agrée Hillarius Vnto that of the cofers â— scrips for to stuffe and fill them Thomas Then Purgatory is in our purses Hillarius We haue sufficiently preâ—ed it For they haue so well purged vs that thou wilâ— say that they are made of the 〈◊〉 of the Dâ—â—ell For any one crosse may not â—ary in it where that Purgatory is Thomas It must be called then from hencefoorth Pagâ—tory or purge purse Now if the Purgatory be so â—â—e it is not now néedfall that the key be too long for to open it But whatsoeuer it be the Popes haue ben y subtilest lockyers the
enter into the matter I bring in the persons who take their theame and matter vpon a fermon which they heard of an holy father entreating of such matters And although the matter might seeme wholy to be fayned yet it hath the foundacion vppon a true history For mine intent is partly in this first disputacion to rebuke the sottish and vayne curiositie of foolish Preachers and Doctors who haue forsaken the principal points of the holy Scripture to occupy thēselues vpō vnprofitable questions vayne contemplations to enquire of things that they cannot know and which wee haue not to doe withall And which serue to none other ende but to hinder and let the poore Christian people to seeke out the will of God to induce and lead them to false religion supersticion Idolatay and all Paganisme Also I declare the Arguments of the Popes Purgatorie with the Purgatorie of the Panims and the ceremonies and supersticions which they vse about the dead out of what spring they issued and what haue bene the purgations of the Panims which the Idolatrous Christians do yet keepe and how the Papisticall Purgatory hath serued the insatiable auarice of those which doe lyue to destroy and deuoure all the poore world Also how the priests Purgatorie is burned how fire hath taken the same and what punishment is prepared for those which go vnto strange fire to be purged from their sinnes any other then the fire of lesus Christ and how the priests do disagree both from the word of God and from their owne doctrine decrees and cannōs After those things we shal enter into the secōd part which shall entreat of the appearing of the spirites of those that be dead All these things shal be yet more playnly vnderstoode and better confirmed by the Dialogues following of the which the last shal be of the immortalitie of the soules and the resurrection of the flesh Afterwardes we will come vnto the lyuing and in the other parts wee shall enter into matters yet more graue more necessary and of greater importance for the present time to shew what is the estate of the world of relygion and by what meanes that man which feareth God and the poore troubled and doubtfull consciences may be assured and know what is the true Church the truth and wherevnto they may surely stay themselues and how they may be certeine what doctrine is of god I haue intituled this first Dialogue the Alchymee of Purgatory chiefely for two causes The first bicause I declare how the auncient Panims and our priests after their example doe trauayle to extract the fifte essence of the soules which they melt in their furnaces of Purgatory The other is bicause from those furnaces our priests do drawe out the Philosophicall stone ¶ For to enter then into the matter Hillary beginneth asking his companions of the Sermon which they heard ¶ THE FIRST DIALOGVE which is called the Alchymee of Purgatorie The Speakers Hillarius Eusebius Theophilus Thomas HIllarius If mine eyes haue not deceiued mée I thinke I saw you all thrée to day at the Sermon wherefore I desire to know your opinions how the same pleased you and what you thinke of the Preacher Eusebius As far as I can iudge I thinke that he is very skilfull and cloquent for he hath spoken very learnedly and deepely of matters so obscure and profounde Hillarius He could not speake more profoundly For he hath pearced euen vnto y very centre of the earth therfore I am the more abashed that he spake so cléerly of matters so obscure and of these darke places no man euer saw ought For the Sunne neuer shineth there Theophilus As far as I could perceiue by him I thinke that eyther he hath not bene in those places of which he spake or els if he were it is long agoe If the opinion of Isydore be true we shall haue very small occasion to giue credite to this ghostly father and to his preachinge Eusebius Hath Isydore ben of an other opinion then the rest of the Christian Doctors touching this matter Theophilus There is none among the Christians which doubteth that there is an hell seeing that the holy Scripture rendereth so sure and vndoubtefull a testimony with the which we ought to content our selues not willyng to know any further then it hath reuealed it vnto vs It ought to suffice vs which Iesus Christ witnesseth vnto vs that there is an hell of eternall vnquenchable fire where the worme dieth not but wher ther is euerlasting horrour weeping gua hing of teeth we need not to enquire of the place for I thinke ther is none which desireth to go thether And therfore we haue néede to praye vnto GOD that it woulde please him to giue vs his grace to know his will and to be able to accomplish it thorow his sonne Iesus Christ to the ende we may auoide that hell fire and extreme darkenesse We néede not much to stay to know in what place hell is whether it is in the centre of y earth according to the common opinion of the Doctors of Plato which saith y it is in the depth of the earth or whether it is vnder the earth in the country of the Antipodes according to the opinion of Isydore who sayth that after the day of iudgement the Sunne and the Moone shall kéepe themselues so stedfaste in heauen that they shall no more tourne round about the earth but giue their lyght and brightnesse onely in that part of the world in y which we dwell and that the damned shal be all sent away vnder the earth into those horrible darkenesse and into those places in the which at this day some men doe thinke that the Antipodes doe dwell Hillarius If it were so that the Sunne and the Moone doth nowe shine there wée maye thinke that some one of the countrye of the Antipodes is come from thence who hath declared and described to our Preacher the scituacion of hell of Lymbo patrum and of Purgatory with al their confines in such sort and manner as he hath expounded them vnto vs. Thomas You may saye what you will and I will beléeue what pleaseth mée but I cannot thinke that he was euer there or that hée hath euer heard any one speake that came from thence hath so well visited all the places theroff For neuer in my lyfe I hearde it better deuised There is neyther hall chamber nor closet cole-panne kitchin nor seller chimney nor pot-hangers great caudron nor lyttle caudron chaynes nor flesh-hookes and other insernall vtensills but that he hath described and set them foorth so lyuely as mée thinketh I sée the thinges before mine eyes in such sort that yet I am afrayde when I thinke on them The Cyrographers and Notaryes are very dilygent and curious for to expresse declare in their instruments and writings the situacion lymtis of houses and possessions of which they make writings off But
god But bicause that that holy asshes was done in the daye of the feast of the Goddesse Pales and that I haue yet to speake of otter Goddesses here before mencioned let vs returne vnto the feast of Candlemas and afterwardes let vs fall againe to the asshes after that I shal haue a little followed certeine other conformities the whiche I haue alreadye some thinge beganne I haue alreadye touched howe you doe attrybute the same tytles vnto the Uirgyn Mary whiche the Idolaters haue giuen vnto Iuno Diana Ceres and Proserpina whom they haue called some of them Quéenes of Heauen the others Ladies without a tayle Shee called hir selfe the handemayde and seruaunt of the Lorde and you doe call hir our Lady as though there were in Heauen Lordes and Ladyes as there is in the Earth and a King and a Quéene as there is a Sunne and a Moone Theophilus The Scripture admitteth but one king of the worlde immortal and inuisible and onely wise vnto whome onelye belongeth all honour and glorye and in whose thigh is written King of Kings and Lorde of Lordes Uppon whiche also wée haue the witnesse of the Apostle saying Although that there bée many Gods manye Lordes in the worlde to witte after the reputation of the Idolaters yet neuertheles vnto vs there is but one God and one Lord. Hillarius Afterwards you doe make the same honour vnto the Uirgyn Mary which the Romaines dyd vnto the Harlot Flora whome they haue made a Goddesse and canonised hir bicause that shée made them heyres of hir goodes whiche shée hadde gayned by whoredome And afterwardes for to couer and hyde their honoure haue called hir Chloris and haue giuen vnto hir power to make the Earth to fructifie and increase Doe yée not greate honoure vnto that holye Uirgyn to giue vnto hir Flora that abhominable bawde and harlot for a compaignion or to put hir in hir place And the tyme agréeth well to the feaste For the Florales and the feaste of Candlemas of Flora were dedycated vnto all lycenciousenesse shamelesse playes vpllaynies and dissolutions the whiche the false Christians doe practise all that time whiche is betweene the Kinges and Shroftyde afterwardes they beginne agayne at Caster and doe contynue vntyll the moneth of Maye and almoste all the yeare But chiefely at the feasts of Caster in May after their lamentations of Lent. Furthermore the Panims do hold Proserpina Hecate for the Goddesse and Quéene of hell and do light vnto hir Torches and candels and doe beséech hir for the dead to the ende shée be fauourable as well for hir owne parte as towardes hir husband Pluto And you do ye muche lesse of the Uirgin Mary you doe call hir Quéene of heauen And you do make hir Quéene of hell and of the dead as the Poets doe of Hecate whom they do also take for Proserpina and Diana vnto whom they do attribute great power in heauen and in hell as it appeareth by that that Virgill saith To cast in sacred fire redemption chiefe of deedes amisse And on Diana cals in heauen and hell that mightie is Also in like manner you would make of Iesus Christ a Pluto or at the least the difference is not great And if you wil deny it I wil haue no more to proue it but your prose sequence of the dead which is in good tyme but yet neuerthelesse without reason beginning in Latin Lugentibus in Purgatorio The which for to make it the better to souÌ„d in thine eares friend Eusebius the better to follow the stile of the Fatists which haue made it I wil revearse it vnto thée in verse word for worde the best I can and if thou doe not finde the ryme so good as it is in Latine be assured that there is more ryme and better then there is of reason For I do not thinke that one can finde greater blasphemy against God and the Uirgyn Mary If I do not translate it word for worde I will yet at the least rehearse the sentence faithfully Giue eare then and I will poure it forth 1 To all them that doe dwel in Purgatory paine Where firy furies fel and sorrowes they sustaine And torments doe endure voide of solation Come shew them some â—ecure by thy compassion O Mary 2 Thou art the well alone which washest sinnes away Thou hydest euery one and none thou doest denay Extend thy hand toward these soules and succorr shew Which thus without regard lye languishing in woe O Mary 3 The dampned spirites to thee so pitious do asplie Desiring for to bee deliuered foom the fire That by thee they may bee erepted for their paine And may in ioyes with thee for euermore remaine O Mary 4 Of Dauid only kay which heauen openest wyde These wretches helpe streight way which dolors do abide Let them deliuered be from dongeon and durance Where they do linked lye in sorrow and greuance O Mary 5 A rule art thou full right to them that thee assye A liuely lampe of light to them that trust in thee Incontinent go pray for these soules in distresse Thy sonne that he streight way their dolour will relesse O Mary 6 O Virgin thus we do vpon thee cry and call These soules so tangled to deliuer out of thrall And pardoning their misdeed also wee thee request That thou wilt be their guyde to euerlasting rest O Mary Do ye not behold a goodly Letanie may not Iesus Christ now rest For the Scripture attributeth vnto him nothing which is not here altogether attributed vnto the creature Wherefore I will haue none other proposition for to proue that that profe contayneth the greatest blasphemye which may be vppon the earth but only that eyther the same that I do say is true or els that the holy Scripture is false and Iesus Christe is no more Iesus Christe the dore the key and he which holdeth it which openeth and sutteth the way the trueth and the life by whom onely wée haue accesse vnto the father or onely hope the resurrection and remission of sinnes or only aduocate patron and mediator the which titles and many other like the Scripture attributeth vnto him onelye and not vnto the creature whatsoeuer it bée eyther in heauen or in the earth Wilt thou now deny but you doe make of the Uirgin Mary a Proserping and of the other side a Ceres whom in like manner you doe honor by putting on of white apparel and with fastings superstitious abstinences euen as Ouid hath written of Ceres saying The Goddesse Ceres best doth like the garment made of white And for hir vse in garment blacke shee no thing doth delite Behold as touching the apparell Giue eare also to that which he speaketh of the superstitious fastings Their feasting lasted all the day till time of night drew neare And then they streight to supper went when starres in skye appeare
colde coniectures Nowe Iesus Christ who is the infallible veritie woulde not that we should builde the articles of our fayth vppon coniectures but vpon the expresse veritie For sith that he and his Apostles doe witnesse that they haue manâ—fested all that which was necessary to our saluation hath commended to vs so much the loue towards our bretheren it is not lyke to be true but is repugnant to the witnesse of Iesus Christ that they haue spoken vnto vs so obscurely haue giuen vnto vs onely some coniectures of this matter and of the loue that we owe vnto the dead the which the Priestes doe wrest it more then that which is due vnto those that be liuing Hillarius Bicause that Iesus Christ hath spoken so obscurely therefore they would make commentaries gloses for to declare it bicause that it bringeth vnto them more profit Thomas Thou hast opened a place Theophilus of which I would gladly be resolued that is to say of the preaching to the dead For to tell the truth I haue oftentimes dreamed mused after it bicause that I considered y according to the witnesse of the Scripture nâ—ne can haue saluation but thorowe the faith in Iesus Christ Now if we do compare those which haue knowne Iesus Christ and haue beleeued in him with those which haue not beleeued and which haue neuer hard him speake the number of those here shal be very little in respect of others Wherefore it followeth that there should be a meruaâ—lous number of the damned that the mercy of God shall not be so great as his rigor iudgement Now it is straunge to mans reason to iudge that God will dampne so many chieâ—â—y sith y he hath had as many which haue not known Iesus Christ for want that one hath not shewed him vnto them Wherefore me thinketh that the opinion of those héere is not much out of reason And I would gladly know what places they can haue of the holy Scripture for to proue it for I will accord and agrée almost sooner to that then to the opinion of Purgatory Theophilus Thou hast moued a question the whiche cannot be expressed and absolued in few wordes For we must first declare what knowledge of Iesus Christ is necessary vnto saluation and how it hath bene alwayes preached from the beginning of the world among all people nations And how it hath ben sufficiently manifested vnto the elect for their saluation to the reprobate for their condempnation Insomuch that they are all inexcusable they cannot alledge ignorance sufficient for to excuse them And it is not néedfull that they haue any more preaching after this lyfe But I had rather that we would omit and leaue off that matter vntill an other time that we maye speake more amply of it and better to satisfie the question which is made dayly touching the saluation or dampnation of our predecessors which haue liued in errour and ignoraunce Yet neuerthelesse bicause that the places which we haue accustomed to alledge for y preaching to the dead may also serue to the matter at this present time I am contented y we do entreat of them for to declare that they are not firme inough for to proue the same nor the Limbe nor Purgatory in like manner to which the others would make theÌ„ serue But for that that it may be that Eusebus doth put them foorth amongst his defenses it were better that we do delay that matter vntil such time as he bringeth it in by course in following his matter by order or if be do it not thou maist put me in remembrance Thomas Yet neuerthelesse before that Eusebius pursueth the other places that he hath determined to put foorth or open I wil propound vnto him an argument concerning the point of which we haue entreated off that is to say of the remission forgiuenes of sinnes in the other world Whervpon I demaund of thée Eusebius when Iesus Christ did giue the keyes of the kingdome of heauen vnto his Church as wel in y person of S. Peter as vnto al y church generally that he declare the power of them of the ecclesiastical ministry hath he not sayd namely That which thou shalt binde in earth shall be bound in heauen that which thou shalt loose in earth shall be loosed in heauen He sayth not That which thou shalt binde or vnbinde in heauen or in Purgatory or in hell or in the other world or in the other life and in an other earth but speaketh of this héere in the which the keys haue ben giuen in the which the Euangelical ministry hath his vigor and strength I wil not reiterate that that you said of the forgiuenes of fault paine For al that is against you But me thinketh that the Pope and those that haue receiued the power of him doe verye euill vnderstand their office willing to extend and stretch the power of their keyes pardons and indulgences vnto the other world and vnto the dead which haue their estate a part and seperated from ours and are no more vnder the iudgement of the church which is in earth which hath not to regard but on the liuing Eusebius Alexander of Ales Gabriel Biel haue very wel satisfied y obiectioÌ„ For they do answere y the dead ought to be accoÌ„pted to be yet vpoÌ„ the earth as touching y absolutioÌ„ or ligatioÌ„ binding or vnbinding vntil y they are passed entred into the kingdome of heauen For whilest y the soules are in purgatory they are vpon the earth sith that they are not yet in heaueÌ„ that they are yet of the Church militant not of y triumphaÌ„t Furthermore euen as those which are in the earth are yet in the way and not at the end full marke so are those which are deteined in Purgatory They are in passing for to goe to the countrey as touching the purgation by the which they are purged passe to the country as by y way Although y they are at the ende marke as touching the confirmation For they can no more sinne nor merit Furthermore all the while that they are ayded receiue comfort of the temporall earthly goods by prayers one may well holde accompt them for to be yet of this world sith that they doe communicate with vs of the goods which are there Hillarius He will accompt then of the dead as of the Monkes which are dead to the world in some pointes but not in other some They are dead to the world as to that that they doe serue and profit no person no more then the dead But they are not dead as to eating and drinking and to other carnall workes For in y there is not a people which doe better liue in the world nor which are more of the world Euen so shall it be of the dead They shal be dead to vs for to giue vs
which was there hid in a low place vnder the béere aunswered that he would Wherefore they dyd Baptise him in stéede of the dead Hillarius They had yet more appearance thē our Bishops Priests which baptised the bels Eusebius If those two arguments doe séeme vnto thée weake and feeble I will alldge vnto thée a stronger When S. Paul did write vnto the Philippians that vnto Iesus Christ is giuen a name aboue all names that in the name of Iesus should euery knée boow both of things in heauen things in earth things vnder the earth What vnderstādeth he by those which vnder the earth do boow their knées vnto Iesus Christ That cannot be vnderstanded of the diuels For they haue not accustomed to honour God nor the damned also For their office is rather to blaspheme him It must needes be then that they be in Purgatory which do boow the knée vnto Iesus Christ which do honour him or otherwise the words of S. Paul should not be true Theophilus If by boowing the knée S. Paul did vnderstande the true diuine seruice the true inuocation and the true honour which the elect doo owe vnto God ther should be some reason appearance in the argument But S. Paul by that manner of speaking meaneth none other thing by boowing the knée but that to Iesus Christ is giuen such domination that it is necessary that euery creature bée subiect vnto him and obeye him and acknowledge him to bee Iudge and Lorde the which the good and the elect dowillingly and with a good heart the wicked and reprebate in spite of their téeth But they are neuerthelesse campelled For they cannot resist the vertue and power of Iesus Christ which maketh his enimies his footstoole But the Apostle vseth such manner of speaking for to followe the stile of the Prophetes and to declere vnto vs that which the Lord hath sayde by I say I doe liue sayth the Lord Euery knee shal boowe vnto mee The which the Apostle expoundeth by other woords saying wee shall be all brought before the iudgement scate of Christ Afterwardes hee confirmeth that proposition by the very wordes of the Prophet declaring that all that commeth to one effect For bicause that the good and euill are compelled to render obedience vnto their Lordes and that they doe declare commonly their subiection and humilitie in boowing the knée and dooing reuerence before their Lorde the Scripture vseth such manner of speakinge for to signifie the obedience reuerence and subiection that euery creature must she we towardes god Although that the same may bée done diuerse wayes either by bowing the knées and without bewing the knées For the Angells and the soules can no better boowe their knees then the Diuels sith that all of thē haue no knées which cannot be but to bodies if we doe not vnderstande any otherwise those figures of speaking And therefore there is no inconuenience to vnderstande by those which do boow the knees vnder the earth the Diuels themselues with all the reprobate which shall all appeare before the iudgement seate of Christ and shall be cōpelled to acknowledge him to be their Iudge in great horrour and feare as they haue already shewed by experience in the time that Iesus Christ was yet in his mortall body passible before that he was risen againe For the wicked spirites were constrayned to obey him and to confesse him to be Christ and to pray vnto him Although that it was against their wills saying O Iesu thou sonne of God what haue wee to do with thee Art thou come hether to torment vs before the time be come We know that thou art the holy eue of God And they besought him saying If thou cast vs out suffer vs to goe our way into the herd of swine In the very same manner as they are compelled to entreate beseech Iesus Christ to confesse him so shall they be compelled to boow the knee vnto him And if they did that vnto him whilest that he was yet mortal passible what shal they do now sith that he sitteth immortal glorious at the right hand of God his father And if they doe beséech or pray to Iesus Christ may they not as well boow the knee vnto him In the sence the auncients haue vnderstāded Theophilactus expoūdeth it expresly of the diuels which shal be constrained to giue glory honour vnto Iesus Christ Eusebius If thou hast escaped that place I beleeue that thou shalt not escape so easily of the like written in the Apocalipse where it is sayd And all the creatures which are in heauen and on the earth vnder the earth in the sea and al that are in them heard I saying blessing he nor glory power be vnto him that sitteth vpon the seate and vnto the lambe for euermore Thou canst not héere say but that it is spoken of the true praise of the true honor which is due vnto God the which the diuels nor the reprobate cannot giue vnto him And yet neuertheles it is here said that there be creatures vnder the earth which do giue vnto him that praise which can be none other thē the soules of purgatory Theophilus You do lacke but the leg of a Fly for to build your arguments Doest thou not see that the holy Ghost vseth an enumeration by the which he witnesseth that all creatures in al places do praise their creator Iesus Christ the true lambe by whō all is restored But being not contēted to vse an vniuersal proposition he also woult by enumeratiō of creatures in perticuler conclude that in general bicause that that manner of speaking doth better expresse the thing doth amplifie better the glory of God declaring that there is not an element nor any place where God is not praised and magnified frō the highest part of heauen vnto the bottom of the earth from euery part of the world For as he writeth that the heauens declare the glory of God the firmament sheweth foorth his handy works Also there is not a creature whatsoeuer it bee neither in Heauen nor in the ayre nor in the water nor in the earth nor vnder the earth not so much as an Ant or Pismer neither a worme plant trée nor stone which preacheth not singeth prayseth magnifieth according to his nature in his manner Eusebius How can the mute and dumbe creatures speake being without reason and insensible which haue no sence reason vnderstandinge nor speach It must néedes be that we doe vnderstand that of men Theophilus How can the Angells the blessed soules speake and praise God which haue no mouth as we haue And how can the Firmament the Sunne the Moone and the starres declare and shew foorth the glory of God and declare his vertue and power for they haue no soule nor mouth as men haue Yet they haue neuerthelesse their mouth agréeing
they would preach Iesus Christ couert and hid let them not be angry if wée preach him all naked and openly and him crucified And if we cannot glory but in the foolishnesse of his crosse as the Apostle sayth the which yet neuerthelesse is the true wisdome of GOD althoughe that the worlde reputeth it foolishnesse For we doe well perceiue what profite there commeth of their so hidden preachings of which none can almost receiue any fruite except he vnderstand the matter that they intreate off almost as well as they themselues For what vtilitie and profite can there come vnto the poore 〈…〉 rant people for whome the sermons oughte to be chiefest made doe they not alwayes continue in their errors and are they not confirmed the more by their darke questions and hyd words the which the hearers do draw and take for their aduauntage and interprete them after their owne sence and meaning and not after the meaning of the speaker except he doe expounde if playnly or at the least in manner that one vnderstande not one thing for an other For the poore people cannot vnderstande that Sophistry nor comprehend their darke questions and problemes who haue yet much adoe â—o vnderstande that which one declareth vnto them as vnto lyttle children For if a learned man knoweth very well hew to drawe out of their sermons the consequences the which they will entreate off how many shall one finde of others which wyll doe cleane contrary And although there were but their stlence by the which they doe dissimule the abuses and the Idolatry doe they not approue sufficiently the false relygion I doe feare very much that one shall not finde many amongst these so wise and discréet which are so prompt and ready to iudge and condempne all those which follow not their counsayle and carnall wisedome of suche an aduise and opinion as Demades was who did mocke the Athenians bicause they did put themselues in daunger to fall into the indignation and displeasure of Alexander the great and to loose their landes townes and countryes bicause they refused to giue vnto the sayd Alexander the diuine honours and to worship him as a God vnto whom Demades sayd Take ye good héed least in kéeping the Heauen you do lose the earth willyng therby to giue the Athenians to vnderstande that they were great fooles to put themselues in such daunger for to kéepe the honour of the Gods And that it were better for them to be Idolaters of men and to honour Alexander as a GOD then to loose both bodye and goodes whose counsayle they followed Wherefore Diogenes in mocking and iesting of their vanitie and flatterie saide vnto them Sith that you haue made Alexander a God and doe honour him for Bacchus make mée also Serapis and honour mée as him For euen as Bacchus was honoured among the Satyres so was Serapis honoured and worshipped in Aegypt in the lykenesse of an Oâ—e and taken for the great God of whome the lawe was made that whosoeuer did call him a man and did not accompt and take him for God should loose his lyfe Wherefore almost in all the temples and churches in which Serapis was honoured and Isis in lyke manner they vsed to holde an Image lyke vnto that which the Romaynes called Augerona the which some doe call Harpocrates who did holde his finger agaynst his mouth admonishing euery one to kéepe silence least they should speake any thing agaynst those goodly Gods which might bring hurte vnto the speakers O woulde to God that we had not so many Alexanders Serapis and Isis who beingâ—nortall men would yet neuerthelesse be taken and accompted as Gods among men and that their Idolles lawes ceremonyes traditions statutes and ordinaunces should bée preferred defore God and his woord nor so many Harpocrates which doe not onely make a signe with the finger that those vnto whome God hath giuen the heart to confesse the truth should holde their peace and be not dumine Images but should know very well to rebuke those which haue a better affection then they and which doe speake that which they dare not take in hande For they will not loose the lande or earthe for to kéepe the Heauen and doe accompt and take those for fooles rash and mad which doe make themselues to be persecuted for to uphold and maintaine the word of the Lord. But it is greatly to be feared that in thinking to kéepe the earth the which they preferre before the Heauen they loose both Heauen and earthe as it happeneth vnto many who loued rather to follow the counsaile of Demades then that of Iesus Christ and the example of him and of his Apostles And how do those edifie who in their secret preaching doe put alwayes a rype betwéene two rotten or rather a rotten betwéen two rype disguising as much as they can Gods truth after that they haue preached for the lyttle feare that they shall haue will denye all that which they haue well preached before and will denye Iesus Christe openly to the great slaunder of all the poore faithfull people whome they neuer haue confessed but particularly secretly and priuily I doe not speake this for to rebuke any man of his infirmitie inconstancie or carnall feare by the which he which thinketh to be very hardy constant doth finde hymselfe ouercome But I speake onely vnto a companye of vayne and glorious fooles which doe these thinges and worse and yet neuerthelesse woulde fayne couer and hyde their faults and condemyne the poore faithfull people who hazarde their lyfe for to aduaunce and amplyfie the kingdome of GOD and which boldelye and constatlye rebulie Idolatry and the abuses Mée thinkes that they do euill vnderstand the office of the Prophet to whom it is not onely commaunded of the Lord to plant and buyld vp but also to roote out breake off and to destroy for to plant and buyld afterwards and to cry as loude as he can lyke tho voyce of a trumpet for to shew vnto the people their offences and to the house of Iacob their sinnes If they wil say that we which are out of daunger haue goodly scoffing let them then suffer vs to doe that which they would not dare not or cannot doe If they thinke that it is a matter too vyle for them and that they will not occupy themselues but about graue and waighty matters and of great importance let them suffer vs to play the children with the children and to abase our selues with the lyttle ones and to vse our plaine speach with the rusticall and to edifie the poore ignorant as they doe edifie the wise and to vncouer the errors vnto those which know theÌ„ not If they be great Diuines and seuere Philosophers let them accompt vs for young Grammarians who do but a lyttle open and bruse the matters and to chewe vnto the simple people the meate a lyttle more smaller for to prepare them to
I haue not found any so skilfull and of such habilitie who can bound and lymitte so perfectly the landes as our preacher to day hath lymitted and bounded out hell Limbus patrum and Purgatory As far as I can perceiue he knoweth in what clymate they are how many degrées miles and places the one is from the other of what side they are all scituated and placed whether they bée on the Cast West North or South Hillarius You take not the matter amâ—â—se But you must not be abashed if he and such as he is doe take so great paynes to bound and lymitte so perfectly those places and chiefely Purgatorie For they haue no better possession then this which yéeldeth vnto them more profite and gaine nor of which they receiue and gather vp more rents and reuenues There is no realme Lordship lande nor heritage which bringeth more profite to their Lords owners then Purgatory doth bring vnto them Wherefore it is no maruayle if they doe feare so much to loose it and that their bounds and lymits shoulde be transported or changed any other where Ptolomus and many other wise and excellent Geographers are estéemed to be very well learned aswell among the Greekes as the Latines But I thinke that among all those there is not one which in his Geography hath at any time so wel painted and described the earth with all the parts thereoff countryes and regions as this our Doctor hath described and drawen out before our eyes these low parts and inseruall regions Thomas By that we may know or at the least presume that he speaketh not onely by heare say but that he hath bene there in proper person or â—ls hath had some expert teacher in that Geography For I doe sée that the best Geographers and the most cumming Cosmographers doe faile oftentimes in the description of the earth and of many countryes and regions which are most familier to vs and of which they may haue greatest and most certeyne experience Hillarius Without séeking any further we may try it in the French Cardes or Maps There is not almost a country better knowne then Fraunce neuerthelesse we sée oftentimes great errours in those Cardes in the which it is described Wherefore wée may well thincke that it maye so chaunce in other tables mappes and cardes conteminge the description of heauen and earth and of the regions and countryes vnknowne Thomas I doubt not at all but that this Monke hath the spirite for to compose and make a table and Mappe of these low countryes better then the paynters haue paynted them out in the temples or the Printers in the Shepheards CaleÌ„ders And therfore I desire very much to speke with him For I haue taken in hande a iourney in the which he may helpe mée For I hope that eyther he will shewe mee some good way or els satisfie mée in such sorte that peraduenture I shall saue the iourney and charges Hillarius What voyage is that which you haue taken vppon you will you goe into Sicily Thomas What to doe in Sicily Hillarius To descend into hell For I cannot vnderstand any other thing by your talke forasmuch as you enquire after that Monke to accomplish and ende your voyage I thinke you will haue him for your guyde to conduct you in that daungerous voyage euen as Circe â—uyded Vlysses to bring him to the speach of Elpenor and Sybilla Aeneas to conduct and bring him vnto the speache of his father Anchises Thomas I thinke you are eyther a Prophet or a Diuine you haue hitte the naâ—â—e on the heaâ—e you haue not erred a whit from the matter â—ut to what purpose speake you vnto mée of Sicily Is there any hauen or any entrye place or denne to descende into those infernall and obscure horrible and most darkesome countryes Hillarius What meane you to make all this circumstaÌ„ce questionings you make it so strange as though you had neuer heard it spoken off before Ther is nothing more common in the Poeticall Theologie Thomas You alleage vnto mee a goodly diuinitie I haue nothing to doe with the Poets nor with their fables and faynings Is it not well knowne that they be inuented of pleasure and there is no truth in them but that they are most euident lyes Hillarius If you so lyttle esteeme the testimonye of the Poets I thinke you will not despise altogether the vulgar common opinion which hath continued and endured so long time and moreouer doth confirme it Thomas You bring mée into a faire land and alleage vnto mée a testimony worthy of credite for confirmation of the other to set mée ouer vnto the common people there is nothing more vnconstant more foolish more mutable nor more ready to beléeue all lyes fables and follyes Hillarius I thinke y yet at the least wise you wil not reiect the testimony of that holy man Odillo Abbot of the Monks of Cluny and of many orher Monkes very deuout which haue followed him Thomas It may be that when I shall heare his opinion eyther I will allow it or disallow it What sayth hée Hillarius Peter of Amiens hath written that in the time of Pope Iohn the viij About a thousande yeares after the death and passion of Iesus Christ Odillo was in Sicily and bicause that he heard oftentimes the noyse cryes and bewaylings which were made continually about that burning hill Aetna called of the Italians at this day Gibello monte did thinke it came from the Diuells lamenting that the soules of the faythfull deceased were deliuered from torments through the masses vigiles prayers sacrifices and offrings of the Christians And therfore he incontinent declared the same to his Monkes and they all decréed together that after they had offered their offerings the first day of Nouember and celebrated the feaste of Saints in the honour of all Saints they would in lyke manner the next day beeing holyday make prayers and â—risons for the soules of all the faythfull deceased Afterwarde in succession of time others receiued and allowed that manner of doing as good and holy Thomas What reason had they to imagine that those cryes mourninges came of the lamentations that the Diuels made Hillarius I cannot vnderstand that it hath had any other reason or foundation then the Poets and the common people to thincke that there was a place there to descende into hell and the place in which the soules of the wicked were tormented for their sinnes bicause that in that same mountaine there is a perpetuall fire which alwaies burneth and hath done so of long time Wherefore they haue thought that y damned were kept in those great burning goulfes By this same reason was Odillo and his Monkes moued and were the Authours that the Christians gaue themselues to celebrate feastes and make sacrifiees for the dead in the month of Nouember euen as the heathen Romaines did commonly vse
true manner the which he would teach vs by his worde and that hée would represent and frequent in the holy supper is spirituall and not carnall as he himselfe witnesseth sayinge It is the spirite that quickeneth the fleshe profiteth nothing The woordes that I haue sayde are spirite and lyfe Theophilus That is not ment that the fleshe of Iesus Christ doth not profite any thing the faithful sith y he himselfe calleth it the bread which came downe from heauen without which we cannot haue life nourishment nor saluation But the carnall sence and vnderstandinge of hys woordes and suche intelligence as the Capeâ—naites and hearers that were offended had is the fleshe eaten in such sorte as they vnderstande it For when wée shall haue the very fleshe of Iesus Christ in our mouth and that wée doe crashe it wyth our téeth and disgest it in our stomack it profiteth vs no more then to Iudas to haue kissed him and to the hangmen to haue touched him yea to bée sprinckled in hys bloude and to haue had his garmentes For Iesus Christ doth profite nothinge béeing knowen after the flesh except he be knowen through fayth by the whiche hée filleth and satisfieth vs also wyth his fleshe and bloude Therefore it is not néedefull that he discende from heauen nor y he remoue froÌ„ place to place for to feede vs in that manner wyth his fleshe and bloude and for to bée present wyth vs and in the middest of vs For he dwelleth in our heartes by fayth and lyueth in vs and quickeneth vs by his holy spirit Wherfore he calleth not the faythfull hys sepulchre but the temple of the liuing god For hée is not deade in the heartes of the faythfull but lyueth there and the faythfull by hym Euen as then the sunne is present wyth vs althoughe it descende not from heauen into the earth and maketh vs to féele hys vertue and power it illuminateth vs and through his heate and brightnesse nourisheth and quickeneth both man and beastes better then if it were héere in earth with vs euen so Iesus Christ that greate sonne of righteousnesse through his diuine power and vertue of his holye spirite doth gyue vnto our soules and bodyes hys flesh and his bloude and doth nourishe and fill vs and maketh vs to feele the vertue and efficacie of his death and passion and of his body and bloude that hée hath gyuen for vs better then if we did eate his flesh with our téeth and there dyd deuoure and swallow it in wyth his bloud in our stomacke insomuch that there is not a body which is so well nourished and fedde wyth bread and wine that hée eatcth and drincketh as the faythfull who with a true and liuely faith commeth vnto him and receyueth his woorde and communicateth the Sacramentes that he hath ordayned is filled and satisfied wyth his flesh and his bloude For hée hath sayde he that commeth to mée shall not hunger and he that beléeueth on mée shall neuer thurst If he that commeth and beléeueth in him shall no more hunger nor thurst it followeth then that in beléeuing and communicating his Sacramentes hée hath eaten and dronken and is satisfied Hillarius That sufficeth which you haue nowe spoken off friend Theophilus for to proue my meaning For we haue not at this present neyther better time nor fitter occasion for to pursue more fully that matter But I wil not graunt vnto thée Eusebius that the Priestes doe eate the fleshe and drincke the bloude of Iesus Christe after that sorte For sith that they séeke his carnall presence they depriue themselues of his spiritual presence according to the witnesse of the Apostle which sayth Wée haue an Aulter whereoff they maye not eate whiche serue in the Tabernacle If those who doe serue in the Tabernacle of Moses and put yet all their affiaunce in the leuitical Ceremonies and sacrifices are shutte out and depriued from the true sacrifice of Iesus Christe what communion can those haue wyth hym who haue altogether ouerthrowen his Sacramentes and Ordinaunces and haue founde out and inuented newe sacrifices more intollerable then euer the Iewes vsed There is an other manner to eate the fleshe and drincke the bloude of Iesus Christ the which I cannot graunt vnto them y is the carnall eating as the Caparnaites dyd vnderstande it euen as one eateth the fleshe of the butchery Iesus Christe whiche is at the ryght hande of God cannot bée eaten after that sorte For hée is the breade of Angels and of the true chyldren of God and of his shéepe and not of Dogges Wolues Hogges Lyons and wilde beastes But I wyll graunte vnto them the thirde manner to eate Iesus Christ and doe confesse wyth thée that they doe eate it truelye reallye and essentiallye not onely in flesh and bones but which is more least you shoulde accompte mée for an hereticke besides the flesh and bones they doe eate the skinne and breake the bones for to sucke out the marrowe that is therein bycause they haue founde suche good taste in the meate Thomas If they doe so they doe worse then the Iewes For they brake not a bone of Iesus Christ Theophilus That was bicause that it was necessarye that in him should be fulfilled which was figured represented by the pascall Lambe of which they must leaue his bones whole For we cannot haue Iesus Christ but that we must haue him whole his vertue power cannot be broken by death it selfe Thomas I haue not yet very wel vnderstood you Hillarius I will declare it vnto thée by a cléere demonstration by euident arguments Diddest thou not first confesse vnto me that all the true faithfull are the true members of Iesus Christ Thomas I confesse it Hillarius If they be members of Iesus Christ they are then his body of which he is y head as the Apostle doth witnesse in many places Thomas I doe agrée vnto you in that Hillarius Forasmuch then as the faithfull are the body of Iesus Christ you will also graunt mée that those which eate the faithfull and poore widowes orphants doe eate Iesus Christ And if you will denie it I will proue it by that that Iesus Christ sayd vnto Saul saying Saul Saul why persecutest thou me In the same manner then as Iesus Christ doth complaine himselfe to be persecuted wheÌ„ his members are So may I say without digressinge from the Scripture that those eate Iesus Christ that do eat his members Thomas But you haue not yet proued that the Priests doe eate the members of Iesus Christ Hillarius It hath ben alredy proued by the things that were spoken before For haue I not already tolde thée how they doo eate both the quicke dead But least thou shouldest thincke that I speake without the Scripture beholde his witnesse What doe you vnderstande by that rebuke and checke that God did vnto the tyrants and enemies of his people when he complained
them Some did carry of the Baye trée in stéede whereof we did carry woode leaues and boughes and braunches of trées that had ben halowed vpon Palme Sunday of Easter flowers or the skinnes of Sea Calues bicause that among all the Sea beastes men saye that lyghteninge will not touch the sea Calfe nor the Eagle among the soules Thomas And for what serued the Baye trée Hillarius They had this opinion that lyghtning would neuer fall vppon it nor could strike it as almost all those the haue written of his propertie nature doe witnesse it They had also the arte and manner to coniure the tempests and to make the God Iupiter come from heauen for to adiure them and driue them away the which they had learned and receiued of Numa Pompilius the second king of the Romaynes Theophilus I doe not finde in the Scripture that the people of God euer vsed such sorceries coniurings nor the they euer had any recourse to candels holy water holy wood the bay trée to the bells nor to the coniurations for to driue away the lyghtnings tempest For that appertayneth better vnto the Magicians Sorcerers Enchaūtors who do attribute vnto themselues the power to moue the heauen and earth to moue stir vp the lyghtnings tempests to appease them to plucke the Moone and the Stars from heauen But the true seruaunts of God in all daungers perils or if the heauē hath ben shut vp so that it giueth no rayne or if it sendeth hayles thūders tempests or it famine plague or drought haue bene on the earthe if the corne haue bene destroyed or the Locusts Caterpillers haue destroyed the goodes of the earth or if they haue bene afflicted with any other kinde of plague or malady they vse none other remedy but to tourne themselues to God only with prayers with true repentaunce of the sinnes and amendment of lyfe And the Lord hath alwaies heard them according to the request the Salomon made vnto him when he dedicated to him his Temple Hillarius They make me to remember those mockers and dispisers of God which were among the Panims who did clappe their féet together agaynst the thunders tempests for to shew themselues more wicked did open their bellyes against them in mocking scoffing it Of which these prouerbs do yet continue Euen so it séemeth the those woulde mocke God counterfet these thunders as Salmoneus did Eusebius You can declare and set forth vnto me nothinge but the Panims But wherefore doe you not alleadge vnto me aswell the minstrells and the singings which y Israelites that were the people of God vsed in their burialls As it appeared by those which were in y house of Iairus the chiefe ruler of the Sinagoue when his daughter was dead whom Iesus raysed to lyfe agayn yet he rebuked not the ministrells the which he would not haue omitted if he had iudged the same to be euil Wherefore may we not haue aswell bells Priestes for to sing as those had minstrels for to incite prouoke them to lamentacions compassion vpon the dead to pray to God for them with a better courage Theophilus You come to the ende of my matter by that compt the Priests doe serue vs in stéede of minstrels But it is to be feared that Iesus will driue them out of his Church as he auoyded out those of Iairus out of the chamber and house For he will not haue Priests for the dead nor he sent his Apostles and Disciples but for those that be alyue For the true Euangelical Priests Ministers of the Church ought to be lyke vnto the Phisitians who are alwayes assistaunt vnto men asmuch as they can and help and succour them asmuch as is possible during their lyfe for to kéepe them in healthe or to heale them when they are sicke but after that they be dead they haue no more to doe For they cannot ayde nor helpe them any more therefore they doe to them no more afterwards But our Priestes are Phisitians who suffer their Patients to dye without helping them after they will bring vnto them medicines when they are dead But Iesus Christ would haue no such as he hath giuen vs to vnderstande by the aunswere that he made to one of his disciples which asked him leaue to goe and bury his father saying Suffer the dead to bury their dead But what appearaunce is there that Iesus Christ would occupy the Ministers of his church and the true Cuangelycall Priestes about the dead sith that God woulde not onely suffer that the high Prieste of the lawe and the other Priestes should goe to the burials nor that they should come nye any dead bodyes except they were their fathers or mothers or any of their nigh kinsmenne The which thing he pernutted not to the highe Priest The chaunce should be much chaunged and the Gospell should haue made vs Priestes very contrary and differing much from those of the people of god For wée doe not reade that euer they medled with the deade nor that they prayed nor offred sacrifices for thē notwithstanding the they were vnder the shadows figures of the law and in the time of the sacrifices which now thorow Iesus Christ are abolyshed And our Priests doe serne vs alwayes for none other thinge but to bóe letted about the dead Hillarius It were a great deale better to hire the minstrells and lamenters as the auncients dyd then to nurrish and féede so many fat bellyes with so great dayntyes and costs For we should pay them no mony but when we do set them to worke and they will serue vs asmuch as those our Priestes whome we must kéepe all the yeare longe with great costes charges and expeuces I doubt not but that Moses did well foresee that Therefore hath he thorow the spirite of God forbidden that the Priestes should not be present at the burials I had rather that they would doe as the Aegyptians did who did put the body of their king when he was dead before the entring in of the graue or sepulcher afterwardes did reade a lystle booke contayning his actes and that which the king had done during his lyfe And he that would might disprayse them The Priests were there present who did examine an iudge of all the poynts The people also were there present and did clap their hands and reioyce at the praises of the king and did vituperate and disprayse the vyces The same gaue a certeyne feare vnto the kinges and Princes that they should not abuse their office and did admonish them to be vertuous if they would haue prayse of men for it did chaunce some times that the king lyued so wickedly and detestable that they did iudge him vnworthy to be buryed The lyke did they of other men In lyke manner the Greekes and Latines had a custome to prayse the bertuous
fire 22 Hell and hell fire are eternall 40 Hell. 22. 29. 40. Hell in Sicily 25 Heraclitus 20. Heredis sleius sub persona risus est 65 Heritage of God. 51. Herodia 72. Herophiles 70. Hydes for shoes 65. The hilles Islande and Norway 26. The dolorous hill in Scotlande 26. Hipocrites 18. Hi1tory 64. Historyes of our time 10. A true history of our time 44 A true history 81. A true history in the yeare of our Lorde 1538. of a Prieste that was a Sorcerer and of his whore 81. Holy Ghost the comforter 92. The honour of Iesus Christe traden vnder 12. The honour due vnto the dead 66. Hunters after testaments and heritages 65. I. Idolatry of the Image of our Lady fol. 74. Iesus Christ the eternall Pope 88. Wherein the Iewes doe follow the Panims Saint Ignatius 95 Induction 50 Infants that are borne dead 28 Infants salted 35. Intention to consecrate 81. Innocation of Saynts 80. Imitation of the Panims 34. Infatible things 52 Iudas out of hell 95. Iudgement of the Lord. 106. Iupiter Elyeins 75. Wherefore shall the Iudgement bee according to the workes 85. K. Those that doe kill themselues 68. King of Castille 105 Kingdome of God. 92. L. Our Lady of Lausanne and hir myracles 44. The lakes and pondes of the Papists 89. Lady Dogges 19. Lake without water 89. The lakes and infernall floudes 88. The Pascall Lambe 50. Lamenting or surrâ—wing for the dead 67 Lamentacions of y prieses for y dead 64 Lamenters 66. language of the Christians 9 All languages good vnto God. 4. Lawe of the Babilonians for those that be sicke 3. Law of Numa 38. Law of Demetrius 70. To laugh at the Popes cost 20. A lesson to the Priests 99. The leaues of the Fig tree of Adam 106 The Legendes of the Papists 78 Libitina Libitinariâ— 65 The Limbe 97. The Limbe of the Infants 29. Licence and lybertie of Dialogues 13. The deuouring Lyon. 94. The Lyon of the Tribe of Iuda 94. To shew lyingswithout truty 10. To loose ones langhing 27. The louers of mans honour and traytours of the diuiNE 12. Lucian and Lucianists 10. Lucri bonus odor exâ—re qualibet 41. M. Saynt Machalre 95. Malo nodo malus cuneus 18. Manducation spirituall 49. Manducation charuall 50. Manducation Papisticall 50. The manner to mocke to the glorye of God. 12. The manner to speak ioyfully in the holy Scriptures 14. The infernall Mappes 24. Merchants in the Church 53. Mariage 41. Mariage of Priestes 81. Marrons which doe burye in the plague tuke 65. Daungerous Marrianers 93. Maskes and morish daunces 99. Masses long and short 63. Masses of hunters 63. The Masties and Haryers of Iesus Christ 20. The meanes to finde out truth 2. The meanes of God. 35. The meanes to comfort the the priests 65 Members of Iesus Christ 50 The Memento of the dead 81 Men more ioyfull more priuiledged 64 Mercury 33. Merite and grace 84. Metonimia 51. The Milanois 46. Mimus 65. The true ministers worthy of foode 71. Minstrells at the burials 66 Minstrells of lairus 67 False miracles 44. Blacke Moonkes 69 To take money for the Sacramentes Ecclesiasticall offices 53. Mortui non mordent 103. N. Nadhegrin 26. The nature of of the truth 11 Naulum 45. Necrocorinthia 41. Nerolatrie 104. Natts and engins of the Priests 93. Nero. 43 Micanor 58. Nilometers 91. The floud Nilus and the fertilitie of Aegypt 91. Notaryes and Prothonotaryes 77 Numa Pompilius 75. O. Obiection 83. Obolus 45 The odoures and smell of a hogge 7. Odilo Abbot 24. Offer wine for the dead 37 Office of a foole and babler 9. Office of a Prophet 14. Office for the dead 87 One onely veritie 2. One Masse a day 63. Opinion of the diuines 23 Opinion of Isidore 23. Opinion of the Robins Iewish Doctors touching the body 101 Oppedere contra tonittus 67 Orcus 90 To take orders 42 Orationes funebres 77. The originall and beginning of prayers for the dead 78 The ornaments of white sepulchers 52. Ouerflowing of Tiber. 91. Out of tast of the bread of lyfe 7. P. Panegyres fol. 77. The payne of those that are depriued from their buriall 46. Papists excommunicated 53. Al pipistical pricsts excommunicated 53. To go into Paradise in post 63. Paradise 97. Parentalia 25. The parents and friendes can doe nothing after one to dead 101 Pastors and Shepheards feeding them selues 51. Pericles 77. To persecute Iesus Christ 50. Persians 58. Personages of Dialogues 15 Peter Rosset a Poet royall 58. Good Phisicians 64. Phisicians of Soules 31 Phisitians and Poticaries of hell 33 Pillers and deuourers 51. The place of the soules of the papists 06. Plato and Virgile 30. Pluto 40. The poyson of the Athenians 4â— All Popes Antipopes Antechrists 88 The Pope maketh the Princes his hanguien 58. Poinegranards and Bells hanging vppon the bestement of the high Prieste of the law 73. Potage for the soules 53. To praye for the Virgin Mary and the Saints 82. Prayers for the lyuing 94. To preach Iesus Christ maske wise or couertly 13. Praeseth bulletarum 43 Preparation for the departure out this lyfe 98 Presence of Iesus Christ 49. It is forbidden the Priests to be at the burying of the dead 67. The Priests of Cyble 74. Priests Minstrells 67 The Priests doe not pray but for those that be in Paradise 82 Priests the churchyarde and sepulchers both of men and Iesus Christ 47. Priests following the Iewes 100 The pride of Caligula 42. Priuiledge of euil Phisicians and hangmen 64 Prisoners of Purgatorie 29. Priuiledges 95. Priuation of the buriall 68. Profite of the buriall 97. Profite in discouering abuses 17. Propertie of salt â—4 Prouises of God contrary vnto Papisticall Purgatorie 82. Prophecie agaynst the Aegyptians 93. The prose of the dead 83. A newe Prouerb of the Priests 65 A Prouerbe 65. A Prouerbe velut canise Nylo 6. Protonatory of name 78 Purgatory 32. 97 Purgatory of Iesus Christ and that or the Pope 56. Purgatory Platonieall 30 Purgatory and his reuenewes 23. Purgatory of the pockie 38 The mouers of sedition of purgatory 55 How Purgatory is buried 40. Purifications at the funeralls 37 The punishment of those that reiect the Gospell do go vnto a strange fire 56 Punishment of malefactors 85. Punishment of Dauid 83. Q. To quench fire with fire 58. The quicke reputed for dead 36 Nuasting forbidden 99. R. Repines and extorcions of Caligula 42. Rationale diuinorum osticiorum 81 Raw earth 44 Those which doe fly from the reading of holy bookes 6. Curious readers of foolish bookes 7 Refounders or melters 38. Religion of beggers or begging Religion 54 Remedy agaynst the thunder and lyghtning 75. Renullion forgiuenes in this world 98 The Rentall of Purgatory 39 To repose or remain Christ 82. Reproch of the Paysant to the priests 65 Repugnauncio of doctrine 94 Requiems of the poore and rich 63. Requirescant in pace 38. Thr riches of Purgatory 30 Three kindes of righteousnesse after Plato 97
which were common to all the dead according to the viuersitie of the countries nations as the case requireth the person which dyed they had other feasts Annirersaries more perticular either for one or for many as the Greekes had a custome to celebrate the xbj day of the moneth of September the Dbsequies Anniuersaries of those which dyed in the war fighting against the Persinns as witnesseth Plutarch Also he witnesseth the at Rome they did the like in the moneth of November for the Gaulois Frechmen Greekes which haue bene buried in the place which was called the Bullock market And Gicero Titus Liuius do offeÌ„times make inention of such feast dayes of the Panims and good déeds Theophilus He hath learned by those things euen as we do sée dayly the lilte practise in our Popes prelates of the Church who haue alwayes added ceremonies vpon ceremonies superstition vpon superstition Idolatry vpon Idolatry haue dayly augmented them sith that they are once begun insomuch that it is not possible that they can procéede any further For we do surmount excéed already long since all the auncient Idolaters in Idolatry Wherfore we haue better occasion to complaine then S. Augustine had in his time which differed much from ours And yet neuerthelesse he did greatly complaine of the multitude of ceremonies and superstitions with which alreadye the Church was then ouercharged corrupted Therefore said he our Lord Iesus Christ willing to giue vnto his church a great liberty would not make it to be subiect vnto many ceremonies but onely vnto a little certeine number of sacraments And yet neuerthelesse it is nowe so much charged that the condition of the Iewes who were vnder the shadowes and figures and the seruitude and bondage of the lawe is more tollerable then ours and chiesly in that that the ceremonies which they had were giuen vnto them of God but those which haue ben brought into the Cstristtan Church are nothing els but mans presumptions inuentions of presumptious and ouerbolde men Hillarius Truely he should haue now other occasion to write the same if he did sée the traine that the Papistes doe holde as well towardes the quicke as towardes the dead wee may assuredly affirme that Pluto was no lesse the authour of the Dbsequies Funerals Dbites Legates Anniuersaries and other like things which are at this daye vsed among the Christians as among the Panims For Pluto is the God of riches And what hath bene the first cause and firste foundation of all these thinges and of Purgaforye and of those dependaunces and the occasion of so much augmenting increasing of them but the insatiable auarice couetousnesse of the great Romish Pluto of his Mercuries other like Gods which are ioyned with him For if we by iust occasion do cal him Pluto we haue no lesse occasioÌ„ to compare both him his vnto Mercurie whose office is among the Gods to lead bring the soules in those Plutonical infernal regions kingdomes after that they be seperated from the body He hath to dooe now in heauen now in the earth and by by in hell The which thing was one of the causes wherfore the Panims did paint his picture Image hauing thrée heads In steed whereoff our Pluto hath his thrée crownes for to declare that he hath power in heauen earth hel and that he holdeth the place of Hecate vnto whom the Idolaters do attribute thrée formes and such a power the which the Pope doth attribute vnto himselfe altogether For he is mounted and ascended into such arrogancie and pride that hée dare take vpon him to commaunde the Angelles and the Dyuels and to stretch foorth his hande euen to the hells for to pull from thence the soules and those which are thether descended but it is after that sort as Orpheus went to seke his wife Eurydice Pollux his brother Castor Theâ— seus and Pyrothus who rauished Proserpina Dr as Hercules descended thether for to bring away Cerberus For I doubt not but that these poeticall fables do containe as much truth as that which that Pope would make vs to beléeue And I beléeue that his Musitions Singers haue no more tertue then the Harpe of Orpheus for to drawe the soules from Purgatory But he hath a Harpe vpon which hée playeth better then euer Orpheus did For by the meanes of the same he eateheth euery thing nothing escapeth him but y he bringeth al things vnder his wing Wherfore we may rightly attribute vnto him thrée heads as vnto Mercurie Cerberus thrée bodies as vnto Geryon sith that he hath such credit with the celestial infernal gods that he coÌ„maundeth that. Angels of heauen that they bring vnto the ioyes of paradise the soule of him who for his pardons goeth to Rome that he be deliuered from Purgatory And he sayth yet moreouer we wil not that the paine of hel be any thing at al inioyned vnto such a persoÌ„ And it is not sufficient for him to vsurps such authoritie seigniory vpon hyn but he doth also giue that power vnto those which do receiue his Cromade â—o deliuer from Purgatory thrée or foure soules yea such as they will themselues Thomas Is it possible that he is so shamelesse ouerbold Hillarius The Bull of Pope Clement may beare witnes of it the which is kept yet at this day well sealed with seales of lead at Vienna Limoges Poictiers in the coffers of that priuiledges It is very true that the SorboÌ„nists of Paris would not allow it but condempned it But yet neuerthelesse it must néeds be that it must passe by their hands He hath also a great many other proverties in him for the which one may compare both him his vnto Mercurie who was in like manner holden accompted of the Panims for the God of gaine of merchants deceiuers hers théeues And therfore they painted him with a serip did set his Image in the middle of the market before the gates of the houses for to kéepe them for to driue away the other théeues bicause that he was the greatest Prince of others For did the earth bring foorth euer such deceiuers abusers and liers such merchaunts and more couetous of filthy gaine They may well cary the scriâ— For that is the cabin from which do come foorth all these lawes canons decrees for to yet the money both of the liuing and also of the dead And hee caryeth not the key wythout a cause for to open and shut the gates and to empty the coffers and scrippes and to take awaye the praye from other théeues of whome hée is the Capitayne At the leastwise none can denfe but that the doctrine of the Panims as muche as concerneth the dead is more reasonable then that of the Papistes For althoughe that the Theologians of the
youngmen were cleane and kept themselues from woemen And Dauid answered the Priest and saide vnto him of a trueth woemen hath bene locked vp from vs about a thrée dayes Furthermore when the Prophet Ioel exhorted the people vnto penaunce fastings and prayers wherfore saide hée amonge other thinges let the bridegroume goe foorth of his chamber and the bride out of hir closet Doth not the holy Scripture declare sufficiently vnto vs how we ought to dispose and giue our selues vnto penaunce fastings and prayers chiefely when the solemne feastes doe approche and that when wee must goe vnto the Lords table for to receiue his precious body and bloud is it not then requisite that we shoulde abstayne both from woemen and from all other carnall pleasures Theophilus I deny not but that God requireth of vs a great honesty movesty and helmes and that we sheult abstaine not only from things which of themselues are euill and wicked and by he◠forbidden at all times but it is also requisite some time to abstaine from things which are lawfull permitted when there is a question of some thing of great unportance if such things might anything at all be a let vnto vs And when the auncient Doctors haue spoken of such things they haue so vnderstanded it But although that God desireth that euery one shoulde know how to kéepe his vessell in holines and honour that none do defile his owne body nor his wiues nor of any other whosoeuer it bée thorow to great concupiscence of the flesh and that he also requireth in the holy mariage a Christian continency chastity and sobriety as from wine and other creatures Must he therefore forbid mariage vnto some for euer and vnto other some a great parte of the time without excepting any person whatsoeuer hée or shée bée of what estate condition or infirmity that may bee in them Hillarius You doe wronge Theophilus For they are not so rigorus as you make them to bée and haue not such strayte and rigorus lawes but that for money they will release and dispense with it But whiche is more I beléeue that who soeuer will bring money vnto that Pope and agrée with him that he will dispense with the childe to mary with his mether the father with his daughter the brother with his sister without hauing regarde vnto consanguinitie diuine lawes nor humaine Theophilus I doubt it not except the shame and feare of men do let and hinoer it sooner then the feare of God. Hillarius By what right shal he refuse vnto others that which sometime some amongst them are permitted For which I wil haue none other witnes at this time but the Cpitath of Lucretia that daughter of Pepe Alexander the whiche was made in Latine after this manner and to this effect Within this tōbe here now doth sleep who had to name Lucrece In all things shee cōpard was to I hass whore of Grece Whom Alexander Pope of Rome when she remaind in life Esteemed as his daughter in law and vsed as his wife Theophilus I demaunde of thée friende Eusebius if God hath forbiden mariage vnto euery person estates and conditions or in any times and seasons wherefore doth that Pope dispense for money For that which God hath forbidden and prohibited cannot be lawefull for any money that one can disburse If God hath not forbidden it wherfore doth he forbyd that which God hath permitted you cannot deny but that he is a Tyrant theese and a piller of the poore people Hillarius I will resolue thy doubte and will vanquish thée by a plaine and cléere induction wilt thou not graunt vnto mée that God is aboue the law and that he is subiect vnto none Theophilus I do not gaine say it Hillarius Afterwards do you not cōfesse that God which made that law can dispense with it at his pleasure and that where there is dispensation of God there is no more lawe Theophilus I also agrée vnto thée in that Hillarius For where there is no law as Sainct Paul witnesseth there is no transgression nor sinne Theophilus I do nowe perceiue where vnto thou wilt come I well perceiue that you minde to conclude that sith that the Pope is God in y earth he may wel dispense with those lawes that he giueth here in earth that after his dispensation there remaineth no more sinne vnto them which offēde against his lawes when those lawes are taken frō thē by him that gaue it thē But of this thy conclusion I wil bring foorth yet another consequence by the which I will proue that he which doth against the lawes of that Pope which haue no foundation by the worde of God doth not sinne but against y Pope not against God for there is no trāsgression against God but in that wheroff there is a law of god Now there is in none of all those things wheroff wee haue spoken any law giuen of God. Wherfore who so that maryeth in those times prohibited he sinneth not against God but against that Pope only not that I wil deme but that we must obey that higher powers rulers not only bicause of feare the we should haue of thē of the power that they haue ouer vs but also for cōscience sake as the holy Apostle teacheth vs giuing vs thereby to vnderstand that we ought to obey our Princes Lords with a good conscience although that we feare not they punishment and bengeaunce bicause we must serue them as those which serue God and not men whiche is but his instrument and seruaunt But the same ought to be vnder standed in that wherein the power is lawfull and that one may obey it without hurting the soule perill of conscience notwithstanding that one shoulde receiue damage either in bodie or goods For in another case condition the aunswer of the Apostle abydeth alwayes firme It is better to obey God then men Hillarius I well agrée vnto that thou sayest But thou hast not yet hit the white For I am a more subtill Logyeioner then thou thinkest that I am nor I stay not only vpon common arguments And therfore let vs retourne againe vnto nune induction the which I haue not yet ended I am very wel contented to confesse vnto thée that the Pope is a God in the earth but in that sence as the diuell is called in the holy Scripture the prince of this worlde the God of this worlde the ruler of darkenes or in that sence as wee do gods the Idols straunge Gods. But there is yet a greater God and more puissant then he vnto whom he and all other such Gods like vnto him are subiect and obedient Now I demaunde of thée where to ought we to referre the ende of mans life Theophilus Unto him from whom it tooke his béeginning Hillarias It is then of God who is the beginning and ende of all thinge who
he hath done it in his time Eusebius Doest thou think that there is in the other life any augmentation and increase of ioy and of glory Theophilus To the end thou maist not rebuke me in ouer rash defining of such things I will propounde vnto thée the witnesses of the scripture by whiche thou maist comprehend that which we may iudge off Mark then first the witnesse of the Apostle which saith writting of the holy prophets and seruants of God which were before the comming of Christ that all those there hauing obteyned witnesse by faith receiued not the promise God hauing prouided a certeine better thing for vs to the end that they should not be come vnto perfection without vs He saith not that they haue altogether receiued the promise For it was made first of all to them But he vnderstandeth the accomplishing and the fruite of the same of which they haue not béene altogether depriued But they haue not had it so perfectly as we haue it nowe For sith that he speaketh of fulfilling and ending he signifieth then that there is alreadie great beginning of felicitie But the perfection was not yet nor shal be vntill the consuÌ„mation and restoring of all things For the terme of consuÌ„mation and perfection are relatiues the which wée must necessarily referre vnto some beginning To which agréeth the aunswere that GOD made vnto the soules of the Martyrs which demaunded vengeaunce against the persecutors of the Church vnto whome the Lorde aunswered that they shoulde tarrye vntyll the number of their bretheren were fulfilled Eusebius make me to vnderstand that more clearely Theophilus Assone as we bâ—gin to knowe God in this worlde and to beléeue in Iesus Christ we begin also to tast the goodnesse of the celestiall life and of the worlde to come But we haue not yet perfect ioy Yet neuerthelesse sithence that we haue once tasted that celestiall goodnesse we grow from day to day from knowledge to knowledge from faith to faith from good to be better vntil we become vnto the age of a perfect man to the fulnesse of Christ to the eternall felicitie and ended blessednesse Now if alreadie in this vale of misery our soule being charged with this terrestiall body shut vp and kept in the same as in a darke prison altogether wrapped in miseries sinnes and maledictions receiueth such consolation and ioy there is no doubt but that after that it is deliuered from that prison and captiâ—â—tie and hath put of all earthly corruption it may growe into all goodnesse and perfection or else in vaine hath Saint Paul saide I desâ—re to be losed and to be with Christ which thing is to â—e best of all And yet neuerthelesse it hath not hir â—eâ—iâ—â—tie and perfect glorie vntill the resurrection of his glorious bodie And that it be againe vnited wiâ—h it and seâ— God face to face and knowe him as we haue béene knowâ—â— of him then when he shal haue vanquished all things and shal be all in all For it is not yet appeared what we shal be but our life is hid in Iesus Christ Euen as then those which doe nowe depart out of this life haue not yet such ioy as they shall haue after that Iesus Christ shall appeare in glorie â—or to iudge all flesh when we shall all arise so by the like reason we may estéeme and thinke that the auncient fathers which haue béene before the commâ—ng of Iesus Christ haue not had altogether such ioy and felicitie before â—is resurrection as afterwarde For if the Angels themselues which alwayes doe behold the face of the heauenly father haue receiued increase of the science and knowledge of God and of their felicitie by the comming of Iesus Christ and there ought to receiue it more ample in the resurrection of the iust and righteous we must not doubt but that asmuch shall happen vnto the blessed spirites and iust soules Wherefore wée may easely knowe by the same howe great and admirable the misterie and secret of the redemption of mankinde is and what is the excellencie of the Church of Iesus Christ sith that the angels themselues doâ— receiuâ— so great profite and increase in all goodnesse Thomas By what place of the holy scripture caâ—st thou proue that which thou speakest Theophilus They are sufficiently expressed in the Epistles of the Apostles for saint Peter speaking of that matter saith that of the Prophets auncyent fathers that it hath béene reuealed vnto them y not to them selues but vnto vs they should administer the things the which saith he nowe are declared vnto you by them which haue declared the gospell by the holy ghost sent from 〈◊〉 the which the Angels doe desire to beholde The Angelâ— had not that desire but that they did féele a greate goodnesse But saint Paul sheweth vnto vs the same yet more expressely and declareth vnto vs sufficiently that sith that the Angels are the ministers of God appointed to the health of men which cannot be in perfect and full blessednesse as we which are their compagnions burgesses and citizens of the kingdome of heauen with them neither are we also come therevnto For euen as they do reioyce ouer the sinner that repenteth and which retâ—urneth vnto God also without all doubt sith that aboâ—e all things they do procure our helth and saluation it cannot be but that they are verie angrye and sorye when they sée vs yet pressed with sinne and death and to striue against them in great anguish Forasmuch then as their â—â—â—yâ—itie is ioyned with ours it is certeine that theirs without ours cannot be perfect For it is written expresly that the saintes shal iudge the Angels and the worlde And the Apostle affirmeth that nowe vnto the rulers and powers in heauen might be knowne by the congregation the manifold wisedome of God according to the eternall purpose which he purposed in Christe Iesu our Lorde If the Angels then doe learne yet and profite in the knowledge of the goodnesse of God the which they doe daily sée to be manifested by newe miracles towardes the Church so in like manner it must be that they doe acknoweledge vs for their iudges and princes in Christ and bicause of Christe it is easie to knowe that there is yet a certeine thing in them whiche doth séeke his perfection of Iesus Christe Therefore it is written that thorowe him all thinges are repaired and restored both in heauen and in earth Wherein the scripture teacheth vs that his comming was not onely healthful vnto men but also vnto all creatures yea vnto the Angels themselues which had no sinne For euen as the fâ—ll of man hath drawen after him the ruine of all other creatures and hath made them subiect vnto malediction with him so euery creature sigheth and groneth with him also looâ—â—â—g for their redemption and deliuerance the which is ioyned together with his Nowe if the Angells cannot be
perfectly consâ—mated in all blessednesse without vs which are their compaignioâ—s how shal our other bretheren do which are ioyned néerer vnto vs which do yet tâ—â—â—e for the redemption of their bodyes and the consummation of their ioy the which they cannot haue without vs and a great deale lesse then the Angels Thomas Weâ— may also conclude by the contrarie that the torâ—ents of the diuells and reprobate doe increase and that they shal be greater and more grieuous after the latter iudgement then they are at this present Theophilus Saint Péeter doth giue vs most euident witnesse writing of the wicked and reprobate after this manner howe will God spare them if he haue not spared the Angels that haue sinned but hath cast them down into hell deliuered them into chaynes of darkenesse to be kept vnto iudgement And by and by after he saith moreouer the Lorde knoweth howe to deliuer the godly out of temptation and howe to reserue the vniust vnto the day of iudgement We cannot deny but that the diuels and reprobate are alreadie in torment and but that they are alreadie drowned in the bottome of hell sith that they are reiected of God that they are in his wrath â— indignation But yet neuerthelesse by the words of saint Peter we may easely vnderstand that they doe attend and â—ariâ— for yet a certeine more grieuous iudgement gods anger more fearefull then they haue féeled But for to make thée to vnderstand more plainely that which I thinke I will expounde it vnto thée by a similitude and comparison taken of the very words of S. Peter When a malefactor hath coÌ„mitted some certein great cryme worthy of death grieuous punishment there is no doubt but y he féeleth his condempnation in his conscience assone as he hath coÌ„mitted the euil déede He hath his conscience which is his accusor for a witnesse for a iudge and for a hangeman and it can be none otherwise His conscience â—yteth and accuseth him Afterwardes he commeth to be vanquished of hys misdéedes by his owne proper witnesse which avayleth more then a thousand witnesses And after it hath vanquished hym it condempneth him And euen as it constrayneth them to witnesse against themselues so it constrayneth them to condempne themselues insomuch that although all the Angels and all the men of the worlde woulde cleare them and pronounce them to be righteous and iust yet neuerthelesse they cannot absolue and cleare themselues nor auoide their owne iudgement Now after y senteÌ„ce giuen it must be that it be put in execution and that the malefactor be deliuered into the hands of the hangeman the which he néede not to séeke farre nor out of himselfe His conscience with the rest doth yet that office the which whippeth and tormenteth him so cruelly that he cannot haue rest day nor night If he sée any talke together he thinketh they talke of hym If he sée but a leafe of a trée to wagge he thinketh that they are seriants sent for to take and carie him to prison If he thinke to sléepe and take rest he dreameth that he is in the handes of the iudge which sendeth him to the hangeman and that they doe leade him to the gallowes And in waking and sléeping he ceaseth not to imagine and thinke of hangemen â—ortures and Gybettes Wherefore the Prophete hath not saide without a cause That the wicked are like the raging Sea that cannot rest whose water â—ometh with the myre and grauell Euen so the wicked haue no peace saith the Lorde Haue we not the example verie euident in Caine and in Iudas From whence procéeded that violence of mans conscience but from GOD Which maketh hys enimyes to féele hys iudgement and his furour in such sort that they themselues cannot beare it But are constrayned to condempne them selues and despaire whiche is a certeine witnesse that there is a iudgement and â— God vnto whome we must render accompte The which we ought all to vnderstande and knowe although wée should neuer heare speaking of God nor of his holy scriptures and although we shoulde haue none other witnes but the same heré the which God hath naturally printed into the heart of euery one the which ought well to suffice vs For as saint Iohn saith if but hearts condemne vs God is greater then our harts and knoweth all things That is as much as if he had saide if we ourselues doe condemne vs may not God well condemyne vs Sith that we haue such a feare and such a horrour doeth not our heart admonish vs sufficiently that we haue a superiour and gouernour which will not suffer such thinges Sith that there is not so great a Prince not so great a Tyrant which feeleth not that hell in his conscience Although there be not a man vppon the earth aboue him of whome he may be afraide Doest thou nowe see howe the hell of the wicked beginneth alreadie in him here in 〈◊〉 worlde The which our Lorde Iesus Christ woulde not haue vs to be ignorant off saying be that beléeueth in the sonne of God hath eternall life and shall not tast of death For he is alreadie passed from death to life but he that beléeueth not in the sonne of God he is alreadie iudged and condemâ—ned Doth he not shewe vs here with the finger howe the faithfull beginneth alreadie his paradise in this worlde and the infidell and vnfaithfull hys hell Hillarius There is nothing more certeine then that which thou speakest And although we had not the witnesses of the Scriptures wee haue the witnesse of nature printed into the hearts of all which hath constrained the Poets to inuent and finde out that fayning of the furies the which we may call she diuelles They do assigne their habitation in the helles and say that they do torment the wicked and reprobate people most horribly aswell in this worlde as in the other By the which they vnderstand none other thing but the torments and assaltes of the euill conscience and that worme which dyeth not but gnaweth and deuoureth incessauntly Theophilus I doubt not But let vs sée how y â— â—el encreaseth day by day If the malefactor be alredy so much tormented before that the Iudge hath layde his handes vpon him before that he be put in prison before that he hath ben on the racke vanquished iudged and condemâ—ned Let vs thinke what torment he ought to haue beeing in prison after that his processe is made and concluded looking tarying for his sentence cruel death euery houre In what anguish thinkest thou that he is in Doest thou thinke that the horror that he hath of the looking for of the torments which are prepared for him are vnto him a great deale lesse paine then the torments and the death that hée looketh for Eusebius Truely I beléeue that there is no great difference that he dyeth so many times as he liueth houres
the one and the other agréeth more then it doth of the dead to the lyuing Secondly bicause that they themselues can better perceiue of their estate and condition and whether they bée more in payne or whethether they be out of it then we For there is more agréeing of the spirits to the spirits which are seperated from the bodye then to vs which are yet wrapped in them And which is more if that the soules of Purgatory doe know eyther by diuine reuelation or by the report of Angells or of the soules of them which dayly doe depart out of this worlde that which is done vppon earth as your Doctors doe testifie and affirme can they not aswell reporte and tell vnto the Saints that which is done in Purgatory It is not lyke to be true iâ— there bée any but that they are better aduertised then we and that many wayes And if they be aduertised I cannot beléeue that they are so inhumayne and vngentle if they doe pray for the lyuing but that they doe pray a great deale more for those poore soules sith that they are in so gréeuous torments without any comparison that may be in the world I doe speake alwayes according to your doctrine And this is the thirde reason by the which I will conclude agaynst the Priestes eyther that the Saints doe not praye for the lyuing or the it is in lyke manner necessary and a great dele more néedeful that they pray for the dead Now if they pray for the dead I am of an opinion that we leaue vnto theÌ„ al the charge For it agreeth better to them then vnto vs sith that they are no more of this world but of the other in which are those that are dead and that we haue no more cure and charge but of the lyuing If they will deny that they doe not pray for the dead I haue more iust and lawfull reason to deny vnto them that they doe not pray for the lyuing Except peraduenture they would say that the Saintes were as cruell as thâ—â— which will suffer those poore soules alwayes to burne which do bring vnto them no money Hillarius Thou hast put foorth very strong reasons But I will a little helpe Eusebius to defende his cause and will propounde and put forth reasons against thâ—â—e to which thou shalt haue much a doe to aunswere Thou speakest of the saints what wilt thou saye if I proue vnto thée by liuely strong reasons that the Pope hath more power and authoritie then they Theophilus That should be an other â—atter Hillarius I will make thy selfe confesse it Who hath more power and authoritie either God or the saints Theophilus There néedeth not an aunswere vnto thy question For one may vnderstande it without speaking There is not a Papist but will â—asely confesse that there is not a saint which hath vertue nor power but so much as God will giue vnto him Hillarius I haue my meaninge and I will nowe make thée yeâ—de thy selfe vanquished For thou hast alreadie confessed vnto me of thine owne propâ—â— moâ—th hast coâ—firmed my proposition the which I â—â—l yet better proue vnto thee and I will concluâ—e all our dispuâ—aâ—ion in a little sillogisme And I will take for my Maior and for the first proposition of my antecedent that which thou hast confessed vnto me Take then my Syllâ—gisme God hath more power and authoritie then the Saintes Nowe the Pope is god â—â—go the Pope hath more power and authoritie then the Saints The Maior is alreadie confessed by thee It resteth now but for to prâ—ue the Minor and the second proposition and afterwards the consequence and conclusion sâ—albe certâ—ine and â—â—â—ubyâ—able Nowe but that the Pope is God in â—arth thou caâ—st not dâ—nyâ—st for many reasons the which I will not nâ—we shâ—we forth But I will do more For I will prâ—ue that he is not onely the God on earth but which is more in heauen and in hell and that he doth make things which God neuer did make Theophilus By that accempt the Pope then shall not haue not only more power then the Saints but more then God himselfe Hillarius It is very true and thou thy selfe shalt Iudge it prouided that thou do heare my reasons I will not alledge for confirmation of my theame that which saint Paul hath written of Antechrist the man of sinne the sonne of perdition which exalteth himselfe aboue all that is called god or which is worshipped so y he shal sit as god in the Temple of God and shew himselfe as God Notwithstanding that that Prophecie and titles doe agrée meruaylously well to that God of whom we speake But I will procéede by an other way the which shall serue for an exposition of those words of Saynt Paul. Theophilus If thou doest as thou sayst the Pope and all the Papists shall be much bounde vnto thée For they say onely that he is God in earth Now if he be but God in the earth he hath then nothing in heauen And he must not open the gates of Paradise vnto the soules of Purgatory And so I may serue my selfe with their publyque witnesse for to proue that which I said of his keyes which cannot be stretched foorth out of this earth Hillarius A man may easely reply thereon For according to their doctrine Purgatory is in the earth Wherefore sith hat he is God in earth he may well haue some power There should be an other reason if Purgatory were betweee the Moone and the earth where Plutarch putteth it except they will say that with the earth they doe also compare the ayre and all the other elements making the Pope aswell God in the ayre water and fire as in the earth at the least thou wilt not deny but that he may wel haue the keyes of hell for to leade thether the soules and that he is the God of the same if it be in the center of the earth according to the common opinion of his Doctors But for to come vnto the matter thou which art a Theologian knowest that there be two manner of wayes to see and know god There is a manner to sée him before aâ—â— a manner to see him behinde To see him before that is to say in his beeing glory and maiestie it is not giuen vnto mortall man For he shall not be capable of such vision and knowledge And therefore hée aunswered vnto Moses who desired to see his glory that he should not sée it before but he would shew vnto him onely his hinder and backe parts I doe vnderstand and meane according to that which I haue learned of some Theologians that to see and know the backe partes of God that is to see and know him by his workes by his effects and in his creatures For sith that he is incomprehensible vnto man in his substaunce glory and maiestie the way and manner that he hath giuen vnto man for to know
wel assured of it But if that which they do write of the buls and pardons be true it is great felly for the papistes to bestowe any more any pennye nor halfe pennye neither for the funerals nor for y masses vigils nor other suffrages for y dead that they should reiect aâ— other manner of doings for to hold themselues onely to y buls pardons and to buy them for to draw the sâ—ules from Purgatory For it should not cost them so much should haue sooner dispatched riâ— away the poore soules from Purgatory For if the Pope hath in his hands the treasure of the Church hath the power as Alexander de Ales witnesseth by the power of his keys by the meanes of his indulgences to distribute bestow them as wel to the liuing as to the dead the Papistes haue no more néede of any other thing For euen as they haue by their Masses and other inuâ—ntions abolished put out the vertue of the death and passion and of the sacrifice of Iesus Christ so the Popes which haue bene the authors of the buls and indulgences haue abolished masses suffrages al meritorious works for the quicke for the dead which their predecâ—ssors haue inuented without the word of god And so by that meanes one shal haue no more néede not onely of Iesus Christ but also of their masses nor of all that that they can do but it is sufficient for al to haue paper parchment written and buls signed sealed with waxe or with lead â—ut which is more I am very much abashed how they dare to attribute so much power ouer y dead to their buls keys absolutioÌ„s sith that the Pope Gelasius and their decreâ—als Canons doe witnesse and openly confesse that the church can bindâ— and vnbinde those y be liuing not the dead and that wâ—e doe not read that the same was euer coÌ„maunded or done not of Iesus Christ himselfe which alâ—ne hath the power to do that But hath said namely vnto S. Peter Al that that thou shalt binde or vnbinde vpon the earth shal be bound in heaueÌ„ He hath said namely vpon earth For he hath neuer sayd that he that shal be dead being bound shal be vnbâ—und Beholde the very wordes of the Canons which doe well way the wordes of Iesus Christ and doe confirme y that I haue said of the authoritie of the keyes at the least in this place in which is said very plainely that by those words of the gospell is declared that none can be excommunicated or absolued aâ—ter he is dead For he saith That which thou shalt binde or vnbinde vppon earth He sayth not vnder the earth declaring that we may binde and vn binde those that be alyue for y diuersitie of their merits but we cannot giue sentence of the dead Beholde the question that Gratian propounded the resolution in his owne words Thomas How can that agrée with that which hath bene alreadie alleadged of the very Canons which doe giue power to excommunicate the Hereticks after they be dead It must néeds be that the canons be contrary the one vnto the other Theophilus That is not newe nor rare with them But the glosers doe excuse that by their interpretacions and exceptions I doe not denye but that we may condempne dempne after that one is deade the false doctrine that a man and an Hereticke shall holde during his lyfe if then it be manifested euen as it might bée done by some of them of whom they doe alleadge the examples for to aduertise the Churches to the ende that the faythfull might the better kéepe themselues But to excommunicate and curse the persons I knowe or sée not how that can bée boâ—ne with all by the holy Scripture â—ith that they are before theyr Iudge vnto whome the Angells did sende the Diuell as is written of Michael the Archangell who disputing with the Diuell about the body of Moâ—es durst not vse rayling iudgement agaynst him but said vnto him The Lord rebuke thée Yet neuerthelesse those heere dare to enterprise more agaynst men both quick and dead then the Angells durst agaynst the Diuels although that they holde them already for most certeâ—â—e to be condempâ—â—ed of God. Hillarius I am yet abashed of one thing If the Pope haue such power to giue full remission from payne and fault by his bulles moulgences aswell for the quick as for the soules of the dead I meruayle that hée hath not already long sithence made emptiâ— and cleansed Purgatory and that he hath not fetched out all the soules sith that he giueth so many pardons dayly and hourely and not only he but al â—is Cardinals bishops priests monks Eusebius There is a goodly aunswere vnto that question The first is for that there goeth euery day new into Purgatory The other is euen as Saint Thomas saint Bonauenture doe aunswere vnto that obiection that it is very requisite and needefull before that the indulgence and pardon be auayleable that it haue reasonable cause and that the dispensation of the goods and treasure of the church in which are assembled and comprised al the merits of Iesus Christ all the merits of al the Saints and Saintes which euer were should be done with moderation and discression or otherwise god will not accept it And therefor the pardons indulgences are not giuen vnto any person eyther for him or for any other be he quicke or dead but by reason of some good worke that he hath done eyther for him selfe or in the name of those for whome the pardon is giuen And therefore is lymitted the power of all those which haue the charge to giue them al do know be they Cardinals Archbishops Bishops Abbots Moonks or Priests how many they may giue euery day except the Pope which hath not his power limitted except he vse theÌ„ vnreasonably the pardoÌ„s theÌ„ that he wil giue shal not be auaileable with god Hillarius I vnderstand what thou wouldest say The pope hath heaped vp together all the merits of Iesus Christ of the patriarchs prophets Apos tles Martirs confessors virgins saints saintes of paradise of al the Christian Church in a treasure and a garner of which he alone hath the keyes and can open or shut distribute little or much when he will and as it pleaseth him For he is the great lockesimth But al the others are but as his seruaunts of whom he lymitteth the power and the office of euery one in such sort that they cannot distribute but that that he hath delyuered vnto them and of whom they haue the keyes Wherefore if it behoueth that hée haue in the treasury garner a great many of seuerall chaÌ„bers and cabins of which many must haue the keyes euery one his owne for to depart and bestow that whereoff he hath the dispensation without daring to touche the
full resolution they will fall vppon this sence Although that Iesus Christ be dead as touching his flesh body and humanitie yet neuerthelesse he is quickened by the spirite that is to say by his eternall vertue and diuine power by the which hee is not onely risen from death but also hath giuen vnto vs his quickening flesh and hath tourned death into lyfe quickening by the same all those which were dead thorow sinne And to the ende that none should dispise Iesus Christ bicause that he is dead and was crucified as a vyle and an abiect person he declared that he is so dead that there is no lyfe but in his death and that none can lyue but by him and that he is not onely to day but euerlasting and that by the same spirite and diuine and eternall vertue he is already an other time come vnto the worlde and hath iudged and condempned the rebells the proude and peruerse spirits oppressed with wicked spirites which were not vnder their kéeping but did sléepe not thinking on the iudgement of god vntil such time as the floud ouerwhelmed and drowned them as he doth yet at this present by that same spyrite by the which hée Iudgeth an condempneth the world and saueth and quickeneth his elect euen as he did in the time of Noe. Hillarius It seemeth that that exposition is also a little vyolated far fetched neuerthelesse it commeth not euill to purpose but séemeth to agrée well inough to the letter of the text of S. Peter Theophilus Bicause that the place is obscure hard I dare not to define pronounce of it rashly But I would gladly put forth these expositions to that ende you may iudge of theÌ„ for to awake the spirits for to finde out some better thing Neuertheles I thinke that this héere is the simplest that is to say that S. Peter willing to shew foorth the efficacie vertu of Iesus Christ of his death and passion witnesseth that it was so great that the lyuing haue not onely felt perceiued it but the dead also vnto whom it is come But in what manner or after what sort How is it communicated vnto vs and all his giftes and graces but by his spirite and diuine vertue Euen as then by his spirite he hath giuen vnto vs his quickening flesh which is vnto vs spirite and lyfe and hath communicated vnto vs his vertue so hath he manifested himselfe by the same spirite vnto the deade both during their lyse and after their death For it is sayde of Abraham that he did sée the day of the Lord and reioyced If he hath then already during this mortal lyfe felt the efficacie and vertue of Iesus Christ long time before that he didde offer his eternall sacrifice wée cannot doubt but that he and all the others which were in his bosome haue felte it more fully when he did manifest himselfe more fully By this we may well vnderstand whereto this place can serue to proue Purgatory For if the vertue of the death and passion of Iesus Christ be of such efficacie that it goeth vnto the dead what néede haue we then of Masses and Suffrages of the Priests for to comfort the dead and to apply vnto them the merits of Iesus Christ sith that none can do it but he himself by the vertue of his spirite which quickeneth the quicke and the dead Now hée calleth that manifestacion predication not that he hath preached verbally or by mouth towards the dead such as is among the lyuing but bicause that euen as by the preaching and Euangelycall ministring Iesus Christ is manifested vnto vs and doe feele the vertue and efficacie of his death and passion Also the spirits of the dead haue theirs but in their maner and such as apperteineth vnto them euen as we doe vnderstande that God gaue himselfe to his Angells to be knowen and to make them tast of his bountie and goodnesse but by an other meane then vnto vs bicause that their condition was contrary We must not then dreame out a Lymbe and a materiall prison and a locale descending of the spirite of Iesus Christ into hell and a preaching such as wée haue But wée must vnderstande all those things spiritually For as it is not néedfull that Iesus Christ should descend locally from heauen for to make vs feele his vertue so it is not necessary to descend into hell For the vertue of his spirite is such that it filleth heauen and earth and is spread abrode euery where Hillarius As I thinke our dreaming Theologians had very much leasure wheÌ„ they setled themselues to dispute whether the soule of Iesus Christ did suffer in the hell Amongest the which some of them are founde to bée of opinion that he did Theophilus If they had wel vnderstanded that which Iesus Christ sayd vnto the théefe This day shalt thou be with me in Paradise and how Iesus Christ descended into hell when his soule was sorrowfull and in anguish euen vnto the death and that he hath dronken vp the cup of the wrath and furor of God and hath borne his iudgement and our malediction and curse and the dampnation due vnto our sinnes insomuch that he was stroken beaten of God hath suffered death after which he descended into the sepulchre or graue they should not haue néeded againe to make the soule of Iesus Christ to descend from Paradise in which it was for to goe into hell For it is sufficiently giuen vnto the spirites of his elect to vnderstand which haue receiued consolation and vnto those of the reprobate declaringe vnto them from what goodnesse they were depriued without descending or assending Eusebius To what purpose then doth he speake of the prison and what other thing can hée vnderstand but the Lymbe of which it is also spoken in Zachery saying I haue let thy prisoners out of the pit where is no water Theophilus By the Words of Zachery the Lord giueth vs to vnderstand none other thing but that by the bleud of the alliance that he hath made with Syon he will deliuer his people that are captiue kept in the bottom of all miseries By the prisoners he vnderstandeh his people that bée in captiâ—itie by y euils he vnderstandeth a captinitie a goulse and bottome of all miserye from which it is not possible for them to come out by any meanes if God doe not delyuer them himselfe Therefore he calleth it Welles for to declare the depth yea yet without water in which one cannot swimme to the ende they may the better knowe their miserie and the grace and mercy of God towardes them When S. Peter did speake of the prison of the spirits he did it for to amplyfie the better the grace of the Gospell comparing those which wer vnder the seruitude bondage of the law vnder those shadows figures vnto those which shall be in a prison in
bée not sadde For that should be Stoique like and of men he woulde make stones and blockes of woode without any affection But the doctrine of the Gospell importeth not the same For although that the Gospell of Iesus Christ doth correct and mortefie the wicked affections of the flesh yet neuerthelesse it depriueth nor spoileth man from all humaine affection but amendeth onely that which is vicious thorow the naturall corruption procéeding from the sinne of man It is impossible that we can be wout dolour sorrow although wée would when we do sée the afflictions and miseries of our brethren béeing of our flesh and bloud The holy Scripture hath not condemned the sorrow and heauinesse that Abraham conceiued for the death of Sara his wife Isaac of his mother Ioseph of his father Iacob The Disciples of S. Iohn of Iesus Christ of s Steuen of s Iames of the teares the they haue shed of the sorrow that they made For man cannot be man without béeing moued to pittie and compassion séeinge the calamities of others féeling the damage that he himselfe receiueth Therefore S. Paul speaketh very sharply when he sayd that the faithfull shoulde not bée sorrowfull as the Panims and Infidels who haue no hope of the resurrection Sith then that he condemneth the dooinges of the Panims we ought not to kepe them except we would be rather counted Panims then Christians It ought then to suffice vs to bury honestly the bodies of the dead and to put them in the earth as in their bed tarrying and lookinge for the comming of Iesus Christ and the generall resurrection of all fleshe Therefore the Christians doe call the place that is appointed for their buriall Cimiterium bycause that it is as the bed couch and dortoire of the faythfull that be dead And therefore it is good to haue some certeine honest and comely place as a common repository of the Christians and publike witnesse of the resurrection of the flesh For we should doe great wronge vnto our bodyes which are the temple of God in whom God dwelleth and which haue bene consecrated and made holy through the bloude of Iesus Christ vnto his honour and glory and dedicated vnto the immortall inheritage of his kingdome if wée doe cast them to dogges fowles and wilde beastes as she carryon of wilde and brute beastes as though they should liue no more after they were dead and bée no pertaker of the immortalitie no more then beastes Their bodies ought to be more déere vnto vs and more ioyned and knit vnto vs then their apparell as Basile witnesseth For that cause the Patriarches and true seruauntes of God were praised and namely Thoby not for that they caused singing praiers offering for the dead and in spending their substaunce without necessitie vpon the dead But bicause they haue deliuered them againe to the earth their mother from whom they came out and that they haue so honoured them by their burying without sparing that which was necessary for the bodyes of the seruaunts of God for whom he was glorified And the Panims themselues were greatly afraide to suffer those to lye vnburied who haue liued honestly and did not depriue but those who thorow dispaire did kill themselues as yet vnto this day it is ordained by the Canons But the Panims oftentimes doe but cut off the hand that committed the fact iudgeing it vnworthy to be buried with the body to whom it hath done violence Also in some places they do punish with such insamy those that commit sacriledge and that kill their fathers and mothers and others that haue committed such execrable crimes notwithstanding that the Hebrewes after that they had satisfied to Iustice buryed them and would not suffer that the buriall should be denied not to the enimies as Iosephus witnesseth And the Lord by his Prophet declareth vnto the tyrant of Babilon that he shall haue no place to be buryed in And threateneth Ioachim that he shall be buried among the Asses bicause of his infidelitie and tyranny Hillarius The Panims had some appearaunce to doe that vsed not such crueltie as our Priests who for default of money do refuse the buriall not onely vnto the olde folke but also to the little Infāts And how many times doth it happen that they haue excōmunicated some poore labourer or busbādmā for twētie or thirtie soubs yea for thrée if he do die being so excōmunicated by thē hauing not wherwith to pay they haue denied him the place to be buried with the other christiās or els he must buy it déerly And yet neuerthelesse there Canons deny not that Churchyard but to those who are no Christiās or who do kill thēselues or to those the haue ben killed in doing some wicked acte as adultry larceny murder Iewish playes I am greatly abashed where they we haue had the vnderstāding S. Paul Moses do forbid vs expresly to be cōfirmable to the imitatiōs of the Panims Idolatrers it that in dispite of them wée haue not taken any other myrrour nor haue studied in any other thing For what difference is there betwéene our funerals and buryals theirs Haue not we the Bels in stéede of the Minstrels that the Panims had And euen as they had the Minstrelles that were best allowed according to the estate and condition of the persons so haue we the Bels Priests Monks When there dyeth any Prince or noble man or rich man that hath well wherewith to pay they will bury him with the trumpet with many torches with great pomp procession with a great company of Minstrels and of men and women for to singe wéepe and lament about him as it doth wel appeare by the discription that Virgile made of the burying and funerals of Pallas the sonne of king Euander sayinge that after that hée was knowen to be dead in the Citie and that the Citizens dyd vnderstand that men dyd bringe the body and that it was already at hand did as followeth Th'archadians most sodeinly vnto the gates then came Holding the torches funerals already for the same According to their olde fashion their guise and eke custome And euery one his torch did light that serued in that rome Marching so well before the herse by order on a row That there vvas none among them all out of order did show Giuing such great a shining light the vvay the vvhich they went With the dead corps pomp so great vvhich to his graue him sent That all a farre and round about the fieldes that are full faire Did giue such light and seruent heat which flamed in the aire And in an other place speaking of the wéepings lamentations done ouer the dead saith Euen to the heauens assended is of men the dolefull cry And eke the sound of the trumpets lamenting pitiously And hesids all these things the rich men were
carried to the earth vpon a goodly Béere with great magnificence and pomp the which the Satyrical Poet hath comprised in a few verses speaking of those which through their excesse and for that they follow not the counsayle of the Phisitian and kéepe not good dyet doe kill themselues saying With such like train they march before with trōpe torches bright To guyde the rich man to his graue a goodly gorgeous sight Who on a curious coffin lyes mourners beare his beere And all his friends bewayle his death with sad mourning cheere On the contrary parte if there doe dye any poore man or anye younge childe or man of small callynge they doe bring him simply with a lyttle procession and a small company and the most times in the night for the causes which already before haue bene touched and they hadde but one lyttle Flute Of which among others the Poet Statius doth witnesse it wryting of Archanorus after this manner But when poore men or children dye their buriall is not braue A lyttle Flute doth serue their tourne to bring them to their graue Sith that we are fallen into the talke of the Flute I doe remember an history that Plinie maketh mencion off of a Rauen that was at Rome who had learned to speake insomuch that euery morning he went into the open stréets and saluted the Caesars to wytte Tiberius Germanicus Drusius by their proper names and also the people of Rome For which cause he was so wel beloued that when he was dead the people of Rome put him to deathe that had killed him and made such great sorrow and lamentations that they celebrated funeralls and pompes for him so that he was carryed to the graue vppon a goodly beere very trimly decked adorned the which two Aethiopians or black Moores did beare vpon their shoulders with a great number of garlāds crowns of flowers a Fluter which played vpon the Flute before vntil they came to his graue Thomas Is it possible that the Romaynes who haue ben so greatly estéemed thorow out the whole worlde to haue bene so foolish Hillarius They witnesse it themselues by their owne historyes and you must vnderstand bicause that the deade body was blacke it was carryed by two Aethiopians or blacke Moores as he was But if they had had of lacopins Augustines or Moonkes of the order of Saint Bennet they had bene a great deale fitter for that office and so the Rauens should haue carryed the Rauen to the graue and should haue put him in the Paradise of the Rauens And doubte not that if the Rauens Dogs and Asses had wherewith to bury them and that the Priestes might get so much money from them as they doe from the rich men that they woulde spare them no more then they doe the rich and would haue no more pittie and compassion of their soules then of the soules of men I doe meruayle of nothing but of this that the Romaynes vsed rather the Flute in those funeralls of the Rauen then the Trompette sith that in all the rest he was buryed as solemly as the rich men be And what doe our Priestes If any great Usurer be dead they runne by and by to the great bell There is not a Church nor parishe but that all the belles are walking insomuch that they make a greater noyse then the Cyclopes doe with their Hammers and Mallets I would counsell them to doe as the women of the Lacedemonians did when their king was dead who did runne about the country sounding and tinging of fire pannes pots and basins as men doe after Bées when they swarme for to declare the death of their king After that the belles are once set in order a ringing behold frō all quarters do come Moonks Priests white gray blacke smokid of al colours as Owles and Shrichowles Rauens Eagles Wolues and Dogges doe after carren and they haue no néede to shaue themselues as the Panims doe for to lament and be sorrowfull For they are already shauen of themselues as the Priestes of the Babilonians Aegyptians and the Priestes of Isis are and are clothed wyth lynnen white shirts as they are They doe serue for all In stéede of Minstrells singers wéepers and lamenters And euen as those Panim Minstrells did sing pittifull and lamentable songs and the euill fortunes of men for to comfort the parents euen so haue these our Priestes and Moonkes turned the booke of Iob into suche lamentacions and complaynts Theophilus Neuerthelesse it is concluded in the counsell of Tholet that those which are called of the Lorde from this worlde ought to be carryed to their graue onely with singing of Psalmes the rather to witnesse and declare that they doe not so mourne and lament as the Panims doe then for any other thing and also to declare the hope of the resurrection Hillarius There was more appearaunce in that which the Idolaters did for they did sing in a language vnderstanded of all men if the songs did not serue any thinge to the dead yet at the least they serued somewhat to those that were alyue But the roaring and bellowing of our Priests and Moonkes doe serue neyther for the one nor the other but onely to accroche and gette to them money and to cause it to come as the Birdes to the call except peraduenture they woulde alleadge the reason of Macrobius which sayth the men do accōpany the dead to the graue with singing bicause the panims beléeue after the the soules are seperated from y bodies they doe follow that swéet harmony wyth the same goe vp to Heauen For monye were of the opinion of Herophilus Dicearchus and Aristoxenus of whom Cicero maketh mention who sayd that the soule was not altogether nothing or onely a harmony the which taketh pleasure with that pleasaunt singinge and melody and goeth wyth it And God graunt that these héere doe beléeue the soules to be immortall and that they may haue a better opinion then those had And also as touchinge the torches that the Panims carried ther was some honest cause wherfore For they carried them partly for to kindle woode that was prepared for to burne the dead bodyes withall bicause that when they were come to the place appointed ordained for the same the néerest of kin did take one of those torches and kindeled the fire as Virgile hath sufficiently declared it speaking of the burying of Misenus after this manner In mourning sort some heaue on shoulders hye the mightie beere A dolefull seruice sad as children doe their fathers deere Behinde them holding bronds thē flame vprising broad doth spred And oyles and dayntyes cast and Frankensens the fire doth seede Also in some places they haue néede of them bycause that they doe bury them in the night after the law of Demetrius Phalereus who hath so ordayned it for to correct the superstuous pompe and
the auncient Priestes of the lawe vnto whome GOD hath forbidden it For if they woulde bée Iewes and followe them in older thinaes they oughte also to followe them in thys or to yéelde a reason wherefore they followe them in one thing and not in an other Hillarius they had rather to followe the Gentyles and Panims in this behalfe For their Ceremonies and superstytions doo bringe vnto them more profite the which they followe notwithstandinge they are nothing worthe as I haue alreadye sayde Wherefore I thincke that they would haue made to others a lawe gathered out of all that whiche was euyll and wycked Theophilus It is then easelye to bée vnderstanded by all those thinges that the prayse that Neomi dyd gyue vnto Ruth sayinge The Lorde deale as kindlye wyth you as ye haue dealte wyth the dead And vnto Booz in lyke manner praysinge hym for that hée hath kepte for the deade that same grace and lyberalytie as he did vnto the liuinge regarding not the Masses prayers songes and sacrifices whiche they haue done for them But the loue and charitie that they haue shewed towardes the parents and friendes of the dead that be liuing Wherefore the holy Scripture declareth what mercy we ought to haue of the dead and what good déedes God requyreth of vs for them The prayers offerings and good deedes that Ruth that good wydowe did make for hir husbande that was dead was that she kept company faith and loyaltie wyth Noemi hir Mother in lawe hir husbandes mother A poore widowe both of husbande and children as shée hirselfe was she comforted hir in hir afflictions and aduersities And nourished cherished loued hir was attendaunt vpon hir in hir olde age as though she had bene hir owne mother In like manner the grace and loue that Booz hath also kept done vnto the sonnes of Noemi as well to those that were dead as to those the be liuing that is that euen as during their life he hath exercised loue and charitie towards them in cherising and comfortinge them the lyke affection hath he kept towardes them after they were deade And when he coulde no more ayde and succour them and that they had no more neede of him hée hath declared his loue that he dyd beare vnto them towardes the wydowes mothers and wiues of whome he hath had pittie and compassion hath hulpen them both in body goods procuring wyth all his power the honour and profite both of the one of the other vntill he did take to wyse that poore widowe Ruth the Moabite which was y graundmother of Dauid and hir remembraunce is celebrated with the same of Booz hir husbande in the gonealogy of Iesus Christe Wherefore we may knowe howe much the woorke bothe of the one of the other hath pleased God what remembraunce we ought to haue of the dead Thomas I doe finde that to bée the best waye to bestowe and giue the almose vnto the poore widowes and fatherlesse children for that is the true Religion then for to take their goodes and bestowe them vppon the dead or to waste and consume them vppon bawdes and harlots and vpon their children in like manner Hillarius I warrant you they will not followe any good example nor the certeine commaundement of God but what do they follow in this matter When I haue wel read ouer and ouer againe all the holy Scripture I doe not finde one worde And the most auncientest that I can finde which did first bringe in those manner of dooings among the Panims was Pluto of whome we will speake off héereafter whome the Docts and the Panims haue made the God of the soules and the king of the dead and of hell After him came Aeneas who did bringe that custome into Italy After Aeneas Romulus and Numa the Kinges of the Romaines afterwardes our Popes who haue contynued augmented and confirmed still more and more those errours and abuses Althoughe that the Panyms hadde yet a certeyne better opynion in the same then our superstitious Papystes hadde For they dyd not make the sacryfices for the deade for the estymation that they hadde that that shoulde serue them for to deliuer them from paines but for to appease them to the ende that their spirites shoulde not hurt them and doe them euill if they had displesed them when they were aliue For Plato himselfe who hath bene the one of the chiefest forgers inuenters of Purgatory witnesseth plainely that the parents friends cānot profit y dead And therfore saith he the parents friends and kinsslolkes ought to admomshe their friends that they do liue well and honestly and to do presently vnto them that good For there to wytte after this life they cannot giue it thē And before the iudgement seat there shall not be any great company of parents friends which shall mainteine and defende and intreate y Iudge and which canne obtaine of him that he wil pardon thée Theophilus I would to God that all our diuines bad no more euill and wicked opinions then that panim touching the dooings of the dead and that they had saide noe sentence lesse to be credited then this Thomas If the panims did not meane y their sacrifices commemoration should profit the dead wherefore did they it then Hillarius It might be that they did thinke that there might retourr◠vnto them some little profit But yet neuerthelesse their cheife intent and purpose was to appease the soules of the dead and to reconcile them vnto them by that meanes to the end they should not hurt them either in their bodies or goods euen as they haue accustomed to celebrate scasts and to do sacrifices vnto the soules of holy men whom they did think to be in heauen with the gods for to haue ayd and solace as Aeneas did vnto his Father Anchises And all that errour procéeded from the false opinion that they had of the soules and for want of knowing their nature and estate therefore they iudged after their owne sence and vnderstanding and not after the word of god As they do also of the bodies thinking at the least the most supersticyous as it hath bene alreadye touched that the soule doth walke a certaine time if their bodyes hath not bad y honor of the burial such as apertameth was meete for them And that the bodies were in daunger of Enchantors and sorcerers which would abuse them thorow their Nycromancic coniuration And the Hebrewe Rabins and doctors of the Iewes and in no lesse dreaming For they say that the dead body is left in the power of the diuell who calleth him selfe Zazell and doe wrest and turne those places of the scripture for to confirme their erroure vnto whom it is said vnto the Serpent Thou shalt eate of the earth all the dayes of thy life And in another place The earth shal be the Serpents meate They woulde conclude
by those words that the body of man and all that which is in the fleshe and the vices therein is giuen for meate to the Serpent whom they do call Azazell lord of the fleshe and the bloud and Prince of that world saying that he is also called in Leuiticus the Prince of the deserts Sith then that our body is created and made of the slime and dust of the earth and that the earth is giuen for meat vnto the serpent they conclude thereby that our bodies are subiect vnto him and in his power vntill such time as they be sanctified and that the earthly fleshe bee transformed and changed into a spirituall nature And therfore say they that that body hath neede both in his buriall whilest that he is in this earth to be purified sanctified through prayers sacrifices encensements exorcismes coniurations and other ceremonies fit for the same Theophilus Durand in that booke wherein he yeldeth the reason of all the popish ceremonies speaking of the office and burying of the dead allegeth the same reasons and almost nothing differeth from the Iewes and Cabalistes Wherein we may well know that the supersticious christians followe more the Iewish and Cabalisticall doctrine then the Christian and Apostolicall doctrine For Durand himselfe is compelled to confesse that the bodies of the dead are encensed and sprinkled with holy water not to that end that they are purged and deliuered from their sinnes which could not then by such things be defaced put out But to the ende that the wicked spirites and theyr presence should be dryuen away And therefore saith hée that in some places they do put of the the holy water into the tombe or graue with the fire and encense and that the holy water is put there to the eâ—de that the diuell shoulde not come neere for he doth feare it very much Hillarius It hath bene well declared and proued by Fryer Gyles that holy Cordelier vnto whom the diuel appeared so terrible that he could not speake for feare And as the diuell came vppon him and greeued him muche Fryer Giles could not arise but did creepe as well as hee coulde vnto a vessell wherein was holy water wherewith hee sprinkled himselfe and was incontinently deliuered from that feare that the diuell did vnto him Theophilus Behold a good proofe the holy water hath then more vertue and power then Iesus Christe and the faith in him or els that Fryer Gyles had no faith which is the buckler and shield wherewith the Apostle teacheth vs to resist the diuell I do muche meruaile where God hathe commauÌ„ded to driue away the diuell by water and when the true seruants of God haue vsed such weapons aginste the diuell Hillarius At the leastwise they must prouide for him a boate if they would driue him awaye by water Theophilus When the witnes of the scripture faileth it must néedes be that those maisters of ceremonies haue then recourse vnto fables But for to returne againe vnto the reasons of Durand he addeth moreouer that in what soeuer place the christians shal be buried out of the churchyarde they ought to set alwayes a crosse at his head For the diuell doth feare very much that signe dareth not to come nigh the place where he seeth the crosse Hillarius That is bicause that the earth which is out of the church yard is not coniured Wherby it hath not so much vertue And therfore in recoÌ„pence they do ad y crosse for to driue away the diuell Theophilus For y same cause do they also coniure y earth of y churchyard For as they do witnes affirme the diuels haue vsed to get theÌ„ vnto the dead bodies and to exercise their cruelty and vengeaunce against them and inforce themselues to do vnto them at the least wise after that they are dead that whiche they could not do whilest they were aliue Furthermore they say that at the day of iudgement our Lorde Iesus Christe will say vnto them that present themselues vnto him that whiche be aunswered vnto the disciples of the Herodians and Pharises when they asked of him the question of the tribute and that they had shewed vnto him the money and Image of Cesar Euen so will he say vnto those whose is this Image what money is this Then those which shal be marked with the crosse shal be knowen to bee good christian money And Iesus Christ will say that whiche is Cesars that is to say vnto the diuell giue it him that which is vnto God giue it to God. Hillarius I am abashed if the diuell dares carrye away those which haue made vppon them the signe of the materiall crosse especially the priestes and moonks whiche are all hyd and couered with them Are not these goodly reasons and most worthy of such diuines Eusebius Yea those are Godly reasons what will you say to the contrary do ye thinke that soe manye wise men which haue bene in the churche haue not well considered the causes wherefore they ought to do that And that it hath not ben ordeyned without good iust reason Theophilus Thou hast heard them and thou hast also the Iewes Cabalists and Panyms for to be the firste authors of them But those dreames are yet more tollerable and worhty of pardon then those here bycause that hauing the braine full of false opinions and inchauntments they feare least the enchauntors Magitians and especially the coniurers and the diuell with them should abuse their bodies thorow their enchauÌ„tments necromances witchcraft But what excuse or coloure can the christians haue who ought to be assured of their saluation in Iesus Christ as wel for the body as for the soule vsing such ceremonies which I may truly call charmes inchauntements magicall supersticions and purifications and not euangelical For although that the earth hath bene giuen for meate to the serpent and that our bodies are taken of the earth how will God permit and suffer that that olde serpent shall defile those bodyes whiche haue bene the Temple habit ation of his holy ghost And whiche haue bene consecrated vnto him thorow the bloud of his sonne Iesus Christ and sanctified thorow his spirite haue the water and the earth which are bewitched and charmed after the manner as the enchaunters charmers do their exorcisms coniurations and a corruptible and a materiall crosse more vertue then the consecration of our bodies and soules whiche Iesus Christ the great and soueraigne Byshoppe and eternall Priest hath done by his bloud and the liuely water of his holy spirit and the baptisme that we haue receyued in his name And if we as good christians haue borne the crosse with him that is to say the troubles and aduersities of this world in all patience and haue put all our hope and trust in the merite of his death passion reioysing our selues only in his crosse as the holy apostle saith