the feare of God or any zeale of his honour to be wise and attentiue to weigh and discouer the sayd subtilties and practises of the Diuell and not to beleeue all spirites before they haue well sounded and tryed them and that they also approue not all the things which vnder the name of God may be proposed vnto them and which at the first may seeme to tende and appertaine to his honour and glorie but that they remember the Apostles admonition to try the spirites and that they verie carefully regarde the ende and scope of those which propose vnto them such doctrine And if there be any thing wherin heed must be taken of such cosonages and fraudes which are layd to surprise the simple it is needfull chiefly in this matter of the Omnipotency of God whereof is the present question For the Ministers do confesse that it ought to be knowne beleeued and vniuersally adored of all creatures in heauen and in earth Moreouer they confesse that the faithfull cannot haue a better foundation nor better rampert to leane vnto and sustaine themselues against all the endeuours as well of the diuel the world and their other enemies as also to be short of all the temptations wherewith they might bee assayled and befieged This Omnipotency they confesse is the hinge of the axeltree as it were wherevpon the world with all it parts is turned and sustained They confesse moreouer that the same Omnipotency is not only venerable to the Angels and blessed spirits in heauen and to the elect and Saints vpon earth but also terrible to the reprobates and diuels in hell So that the one doth willingly embrace and submit themselues vnto it and the others are constrained to bow vnder it and yeeld vnto and obey the same Lastly they confesse that it is infinite and of incomprehensible greatnesse to all creatures as the wisedome goodnesse Iustice truth and the other vertues and proprieties of our God This is that which the Ministers beleeue and confesse of the Omnipotency of God and that which they thinke all Christians ought thereof to beleeue and hold Now to make good vse of this Almightinesse and to apply it as is meete we must iudge thereof according to his will and of his will according to his word So that we ought not to attribute indifferently to the power of God all things good and euill ordered and disordered agreeable and contrary to his nature false and true But to well rule and order the thoughts and cogitations of Gods Omnipotencie presenting themselues in our hearts we must for our part measure the same according to his holy will and beleeue that it cannot be limitted letted nor hindred by any other will or power which wil or may be opposite vnto it Which thing S. Augustine well teacheth in many places as in the fift booke and 10. Chapter of the Cittie of God where speaking of God hee saith That he is called almightie because he doth all whatsoeuer he will and suffereth nothing if he will it not Also in the seuenth Chapter of the 21. booke For no other reason but this onely is he called Almightie that he can do all whatsoeuer he will doo Also in the first Chapter of the booke De Symbolo ad Catec Our God saith he doth all that which he will do and that is his Almightinesse Also in the 119. Sermon De tempore He is Almightie to do all things that he will do and ordaineth to be done These sentences and many other lyke found in the writings of that good Father and other Auncients do clearly teach vs the maner how we may well make profit of the faith we haue of the omnipotency of God That is in bringing vs backe to his will and iudging of his will by his word and not by the false imaginations which therof we may conceiue in our minds or that others would propose vnto vs As did Sathan to Iesus Christ whom he would haue induced to cast downe himselfe headlong vnder a vaine trust of helpe from the omnipotencie of God Euen so also the Monarchians who vnder colour and pretext of Gods omnipotencie which of some myracles they gathered would proue and establish their heresies and take away the personall distinction which is betweene the Father and the sonne saying That God being Almightie could therefore make himselfe Father and sonne together Of the Anabaptists in these last times is it also found that for a vaine assurance which they put in the omnipotency of God hoping he could nourish them as he did the byrds would not labour Many such lyke more great inconueniences may happen to all those that hauing such wandering and stragling thoughts of the Omnipotency of God wil not restraine nor reduce them to his will And this we see is besalue the Doctors who willing to apprehend and measure the omnipotencie of God by their owne imaginations rather then by his will and word are as saith S. Paul become vaine in their imagination and their foolish heart is filled with darknesse And willing to behold the Maiestie of God out of the limits and bounds which hee had shewed them in his word haue bene intrapped and ouerwhelmed of his glorie And that is befalne them which in their resolution they themselues haue touched to wit that for not hauing taken the word of God for their guide nor followed the steppes and pathes of his holy spirit they do erre from the faith which contrarie to that which the Doctors doo thinke is not destroyed nor ouerthrowne by the consideration of the creatures and workes of God which are as a myrror of his glorie and diuinitie but in as much as by them wee were turned away from the promises of God by the which we are assured of his will and almightinesse which doth warrant and assure vs of the effects and accomplishment of this holy will Which may bee seene and clearly obserued in them that were sent by Moyses to espie out and know the Land of the Cananites Two of which namely Iosua and Caleb could neuer be withdrawne from the trust they had in theyr God For as much as turning their mindes from the consideration of all things which could make them doubt thereof as of the Fortresse and munition of Cities the number force weapons and experience of the countrie Inhabitants they stayed their minds in the sole consideration of the promises which God had made vnto thē Cōtrariwise the others forgetting the same promises nought cōsidering but that which they saw before their eyes they fell and caused all the people to fall with them into that cursed and damnable infidelitie for which they were so grieueuously punished in the wildernesse and excluded from enterance therevnto and enioying of that thing which God had promised to theyr Fathers And in the example of Abrahā whose faith abode firme and stable by the consideration chiefly of the promise and will of God as S. Paul declareth So that the consideration of
betweene the true reuelations of the Lord and the Word which proceeding from him is as true as the reuelation And the reuelation reciprocally as true as the Word Yet doth it not therefore follow that the word and the reuelations of the spirit of the Lord by the which we may be conducted to the vnderstanding of the word are not things different and that the one doth not go before the other And where the said Vigor prayeth the said De Spina to hasten to the point he answereth That he cannot else where ground his answeres then vpon the demaundes which be made vnto him Reply Whereunto the said Vigor replyed that hee referred himselfe touching the sence to that which is touched in the answere of the said De Spina And where he saith that the word goeth before the reuelation that is of no value to make difference vpon the question proposed And to come to the point the said Vigor demaundeth whether a man may be assured that he hath reuelation from the Lord that a booke is a booke of the holy Scripture and when he may iudge assuredly of his inward inspiration Also how he can assure any of this inspiration giuen him of the Lord Answere Touching the first Article of the last demaund It is not a thing impertinent to distinguish the scripture from the interpretation thereof inaâ—much as they bee things diuers and diuers gifts of the Lord. And to answer to the question proposed how a particular man before the reuelation and inward testimonie of the spirit of God in his heart may acknowledge that it is Canonicall The spirit of God varieth not from himselfe And abiding in one particular man he wil acknowledge the Scripture which is come from him and beareth his markes And for answere to the second demand hee also saith that the selfe same spirit beeing likewise in a third person will acknowledge both that the word and the reuelation are of him for the reasons alledged That is to say that the spirit of God in diuers persons is alwayes equall and like vnto himselfe Obiection This is no full satisfaction to the first question proposed by the which it was demaunded how some man may iudge in himselfe that hee hath the holy Ghost to discerne one Booke to be the holy Scripture and another not but Apocrypha and how he may declare vnto another that he hath his inspiration from God Answere The spirit of God is called a seale in the scripture therefore is it that the first effect which it produceth in the heart of him vnto whom it is communicated is to assure him of his presence As for assuring a secoÌ„d person of the reuelation that one hath receiued of the spirit of God it is easie Forasmuch as the spirit of God which openeth the mouth of the one to speake doth also open the eares of the other to listen to his word and the heart to beleeue it to be perswaded thereof So that betweene the maister and the scholler between the teacher and the hearer when they be both furnished and enlightened by the Spirit of God there is alwayes one mutuall consent to acknowledge one another Obiection Such certaintie is a great incertaintie And there is not any of what sect soeuer which doeth not assure himselfe to haue the holy Ghost and the trueth on his side which is a foolish presumption How can a man distinguish a presumption from a true inspiration Answere S. Iohn Chrisostome saith that in vaine a man boasteth of the spirit without the word which is a meane to represse sectes and heresies and to iudge of all things which heretiques others would propose vnder the authoritie tytle of the Spirit of God For as by the spirit we know the true sence of the word so do we also mutually acknowledge by the word who those be which haue the spirit of God or no. Obiection This is no answere to the question For the question is not to examine the doctrine by the word but the question is to know whether it be the word of God by which a man will examine and approoue a doctrine And how a man shall iudge assuredly that hee hath a reuelation of the Lord that that is the word of God Answere If he be faithfull therefore shall he iudge by the Spirit of God which is in him as in him which telleth the same vnto him And if he be vnfaithfull as impossible it is that he should iudge thereof as it is to a blinde man to iudge and discerne of colours presented vnto him Forasmuch saieth S. Paul as the Spirit of God is he by whom wee know and iudge the things that are of God Obiection Yet is not this an answere to the question proposed let the iudgement thereof be left to the readers and hearers Now make they another demaund that is to say Whether we be not very certaine by the word of God that the Lord doeth assist his Church and will assist it vnto the end of the world And whether it be not a more assured thing to stay on the consent and iudgement of the Church touching the determination of the Canonicall bookes of the holy Scripture the distinction of them from the Apocrypha then to leane vpon his owne iudgement esteeming it to bee an inward inspiration whereof a man can make no proofe but supposeth that he hath the holy Ghost Answere The Doctors doo confound the opinions which fantasticke men may haue with the witnesses and reuelations of the holy Ghost although betweene those two there is as much distance as is from heauen to earth And as touching the consent of the Church suppose that it proceedeth from the spirit of God Infallable it is also certaine that particular reuelations may be as of Esay and other Prophets And forasmuch as the one and the other do proceed from one selfe same Authour which is the Spirit of trueth The certaintie of the reuelations of God his Spirit made vnto all the Church in generall and to euery member of it in particular is of one selfe same moment Obiection The Minsters cannot shew to the Catholiques nor to any others that they are not fantasticall for asmuch as they make no proofe more then do other sects of the reuelation of the holy Ghost made vnto them and as touching that is said suppose that it proceedeth froÌ„ the Spirit of God They doubt it seemeth of the assistance of the holy Ghost in the Church of God which saith S. Paul is Columna firmameÌ„tuÌ„ veritatis the pillar ground of truth And a thing it is to be wel considered that they are more certain of the assistaÌ„ce of the Lord in one particular person then in the Church vniuersal And where they say that to know the truth the holy Spirit assisteth as well euery member of the Church as the whole church By that might a man conclude that the particular faithful could neuer erre that the
because men do alledge propose many things to the contrary To the end therefore that God and his Angels bee maintained true in their words it must not be doubted but God can much more easily change and alter his creatures and all their qualities then a Potter can play with his clay and forme at his pleasure some vessell thereof Moreouer there is daunger that if we limit Gods power towards his creatures wee fall to denie him his Lordship and dominion ouer them For no other thing is it to be Lord of a creature then to haue power to change alter and giue it such a nature and qualitie best pleasing to him as hauing the same in his owne power And therefore God in Ieremy to shewe that hee had power to destroy and ruinate or to maintaine Ierusalem as seemed him good saith I am the Lord of all flesh is there any thing too hard for me Therefore the Doctors do conclude that there is daunger if this question bee maintained as impossible to God that each one therein will dare as much alledging the same examples which the Ministers do to exempt from the power of God euery thing shall displease him And when men shall produce vnto him such things out of the scripture he may interpret the scripture in an other sence saying that such a thing shall be impossible to God by the naturall sence of the words of the scripture Euen as the Ministers doo change and alter the scripture which saith that the body of Iesus Christ is in two places To wit the word of the Supper compared with that of the Ascention and say that that of the Supper ought not to bee vnderstood litterally for that one body should be in two places is impossible to God So say the Doctors that each one wil corrupt the litterall sence of the scriptures saying that the thing is impossible vnto God And therefore must the scriptures be otherwise vnderstood And notwithstanding it may bee because it displeaseth him and yet will hee bring forth the selfe-same reasons and allegations as do the Ministers to shewe that all things are not possible to God The Doctors do againe conclude that it is better to maintaine the scripture in the truth thereof albeit it propose in our iudgements incomprehensible and impossible things then to open a gap for euery one to depraue the word of God to raunge and subiect it to his will and iudgement vnder shadow of saying that it is impossible to God and alledging for the same some examples They will not omit that the Ministers who haue often protested to relye vpon the pure word of God do alledge only auncient Doctors against the power of God flying for aide to them against Gods expresse word which importeth that generally without exception there is nothing impossible to him Answere The Minister answere that the Doctors proue not their consequence and that they leaue it for some distrust they haue as is likely that they are not able to proue it They mentiō but the antecedent of their said consequence to the confession whereof it is not possible for them to lead the Ministers by their reasons and authorities alledged to weaken their said consequence for as much as of one particular they inferre a generall which is contrary to the rules of Logicke And where they say that the authorities alledged by the Ministers nothing serue to reproue their consequence and to shew that God leaueth not to be almightie although he cannot do any thing which doth derogate to his nature they referre themserues therein to the said auncient authors which for the same end and reasons as the Ministers doo alledge and propose the aboue said exceptions Where they pretend that the authorities and sentences alledged out of the auncient Fathers do nought appertaine to the present question for as much as they denie that they should be vnderstood of other things but those only which do containe in themselues contradiction The Ministers do answere that so also doth that which they propose of a body that at on selfe instant it may be in diuers places For as much is it as if they should say that a body is and is not at one selfe-same time and that a body is one and is not one Also that a creature is incircumscriptible and not inclosed within certaine limits which happening it should no more be a creature but God As may bee gathered of that which S. Basil writeth in his booke of the holy Ghost Chapter 22. saying thus The Angell that appeared to Cornelius was not in the same place where Phillip was And he that spake to Zacharie from the Aultar filled not whiles hee spake vnto him his seate and place in heauen But the holy Ghost is in Habacuck and Daniel in Babylon and in Ezeehiel vpon the floud of Chobar for the spirit of God doth fill the earth And the Prophet writing thereof saith Where shall I hide me from thy spirit or whither shall I flye from thy presence Didymus in his booke of the holy Ghost confirming that aboue said saith thus Were the spirit of God a creature his substance should he haue circumscript and limitted as haue all things made and created As then so it is that the spirit of God doth fill the world and is not circumscript nor in any place limitted therof it followeth that he is God Vigilius in the disputation hee wrote betweene Sabellius Photius Arrius and Athanasius vnder the person of Athanasius thus writeth Thereby may it chiefly appeare that the spirit of God is God that he is euerie where and is not contained in any one place as the Prophet writeth Whither shall I flye to hide me from thy spirit Of these places may we conclude that if a body bee not circumscript finished and closed in certaine limits it is not a creature which ought to bee vnderstood not onely of other bodies but of that also of Iesus Christ himselfe as appeareth by that which Theodoret writeth in his second Dialogue where hee thus saith Then is the body of our Lord risen exempted from all corruption impassible and immortall adorned with diuine glory adored and worshipped of the heauenly powers Neuerthelesse albeit it be in such sort qualified yet ceaseth it not therefore to be circumscript as it was before it was glorified whereof it followeth that being a true body and a creature it cannot be in diuers places at one instance Whereas they alledge that the foresaid examples do nothing pertaine to the question proposed for as much as in it the question is onely to know whether God can chaunge the qualities in a substance the substance remaining The Ministers do denie it because in the question there is mentiō of a body which cannot be without hs measure Now the measures and demensions are not as qualities and accidents which may happen to a body and depart from it without corrupting thereof which is the nature and condition of accidents but are
of it proper essence So that it is impossible that a body should bee a body which is not measured and circumscript The first example they produce for confirmation of their saying is that a massie thing which naturally for the waight thereof declineth downward may be lifted on high Wherevnto the Ministers do answere that it may be done and that by violent motion But that this example nought serueth to ouerthrow that they haue said for as much as such things in themselues containe no contradiction and that they are not contrary to the essence of the thing where they happen For a stone which a man throweth vpward doth not therefore cease to be a stone neither by such a mouing is it not depriued of the waightinesse thereof To the example of the fire they answere that it is one selfesame reason of light as of heauie things and that without any corruption of their essence their naturall mouings may be changed by some force and violence done vnto them And as touching that they alledge of fire which contrary to it nature namely to heat and burne refreshed the three Iewes in the Babilonian furnace they answere that the fire therefore was nothing altered in the essence nor qualiries thereof which may easily appeare in that it spared the three Iewes and burned and consumed those which kindled the same Whereof may be inferred that the cause why it did not offend them proceeded not because the nature or qualities thereof were any way changed but onely because the action thereof was suspended And where they alledge that two bodies may be at one instant in one selfe-same place together and for proofe therof propose that which is written in S. Iohn that Iesus Christ did enter where his Disciples were the doores beeing shut the Ministers do answere that it is not so in the text but the text sheweth that the Disciples beeing assembled in a place Iesus Christ stood appeared in the middest of them Whereof can be no way inferred that hee entred into the place where they were without opening of the doores nor that hee pierced them to enter therein And very like it is that they were opened and shut againe as well as those which the Angell did open and shut againe when hee was sent to deliuer S. Peter out of prison and when likewise hee was sent for the Apostles deliuerance As touching that they propose of a grosse body passing through a straight place alledging the example of a Cable through the eye of a needle The Ministers answere that it is ill to the purpose alledged and is an argument grounded vpon a thing impossible They say moreouer that the Doctors haue all vnderstood the word Camilos vsurped in the scripture not for a Cable but for a Camell as to them it is manifest which are but meanely seene in the antiquities of the Hebrewes And as appeareth by that which Angelius Caninius writeth in the end of his Caldean Grammer And for the conclusion which the Doctors drawe from the precedent examples it is from the purpose and founded vppon presupposed antecedents and premisses by them brought which in the sence they alledge them for the reasons aboue declared they neither haue nor will confesse vnto them Where they say that what the Ministers haue said touching a body that it cannot be in two places at one instant were it the body of Iesus Christ it selfe was neuer written by any of the auncient Fathers nor proposed before the comming of Peter Martyr and Theodoret Beza The Ministers do maintaine that it was And that S. Augustine in his Epistle to Dardanus saith the same in these tearmes According to this forme meaning the corporall forme of Iesus Christ we must not thinke that it is euery where And wee must beware least in establishing in him his diuinitie we take not frō him the veritie of his body And else-where hee saith That by reason of the nature and measure of a true body hee is in one place in heauen The selfe-same thing saith Therdoret in his second Dialogue as hath bene before alledged And so doth Vigilius in his fourth booke against Eutiches where hee writeth as followeth If the word and flesh be but of one nature how commeth it to passe that the flesh is not found euery where as the word of which word it was taken to constitute one selfe-same person and Hypostaly is euery where for when it was on the earth it was not in heauen and now that it is in heauen surely it is not on the earth And so farre off is it that he is there that we attend Iesus Christ to come according to his flesh whom neuerthelesse we beleeue as he is the word to be here on earth with vs. By these and other like authorities often found in the writings of the Fathers men may know that Peter Martyr and Theodoret Beza are not the first authors of this doctrine and that it is falsly imputed to them for as much as they haue but drawne and word by word copied as it were the same out of the bookes of the auncient Fathers To that which the Doctors pretend that the forme of arguing which the Ministers haue vsed affirming some things to be impossible to God doth not derogate his omnipotēcie ouerthroweth the forme of the argument which the Angell speaking to the virgin vseth for cōfirmatiō of that which he declared vnto her that is that nothing is impossible to God The Ministers do answere that it is nothing to the purpose for as much as the question is neither of a thing which containeth in it self any contradiction nor that is contrary to the truth of God which be the two matters they haue alledged and yet do alledge for the expositiō of the omnipotencie of God And touching that which the Doctors do adde that God can change the nature and qualitie of things there is no man doubteth the same But whē that is done it behoueth also to auow that the things be changed that they remain not in their first nature And the Ministers say that it is not all one with the thing here proposed for as much as the Doctors wil haue a thing to remain in it essence and nature although the essentiall parts therof be changed altogether extinct and abolished Touching the limitation of the power of God towards his creatures there is none so presumptuous to attempt to limit the same in whatsoeuer he wil and which confesseth not that he may ordaine dispose of all his creatures in generall as it pleaseth him as a Potter doth of his earth And thervnto say they ought the authoritie of Ieremy to be referred as it appeareth very clearly by these Hebrew words L◠gippale Mimmecha col-dauar To wit nothing shal be hard to thee ô Lord. Concerning the danger which the Doctors pretend may come of the abouesaid answeres of the Ministers they answer that men of sound and good judgement wil neuer drawe thereof
make the Angel Peter passage Whereas the Doctors reply vpon the answer of the Ministers to the argument of the Camell formerly proposed by them in their first answer the Ministers say that there is nothing in their said answer against the word of God But that they deceiue themselues referring to the Camell whereof hee had formerly made mention that which ought to bee vnderstood but of the sauing and conuersion of the rich man only For our Lord Iesus Christ saying that that which is impossible to men is possible with God nought else pretendeth but to answere the question which the Disciples had propounded To wit who could be saued Answering wherevnto hee said that it was indeed impossible to men who of themselues are inclined to trust in their riches But to God it was possible which could pull backe or withdraw their hearts from that vaine confidence As touching the argument which they will build vpon the presence of Iesus Christ in the Supper whereof they wil inferre that it is in diuers places the Ministers confesse the antecedent denie the consequence For there is no doubt but by faith our Lord Iesus Christ is spiritually present to all the faithfull in the Supper Whence neuerthelesse must not be inferred that he is there locally definitiuely noâ— corporally And wheras they say that it is not imaginable the Ministers do avow the same in regard of these which are not taught and enlightned by the spirit of God and haue no other imagination then that which their natural facultie doth furnish them withall But they that beeing illuminate by the grace of God haue a true and liuely faith in their hearts it is no more impossible to represent vnto them Iesus Christ crucified in the Supper then it was to the Galathians to represent and propose him vnto them as present and visible at the preaching of S. Paul and to those likewise of whom Saint Ciprian maketh mention in his Sermon of the Supper That in celebrating the same they embrace the Crosse of Iesus Christ sucke his bloud and fasten their tongues within his wounds All which things are done by a liuely contemplation and apprehension of faith which is no other thing then the ground of things hoped for and an euidence of those things which are not seene as S. Paul doth define it Touching the truth of the thing conioyned with the signes and Sacraments the Ministers confesse that the outward signes are neuer without their effect toward the faithfull who cannot be partakers of the bread and wine distributed in the Supper but that they participate therwithall of the flesh of Iesus Christ crucified for their sinnes and of his bloud shead to ratifie the new couenant which God made with his people But if the Doctors will inferre thereof a corporall presence in the Supper the Ministers will denie it And their reason is because such a presence was not required among the auncient Fathers who left not for all that to eate one selfe-same spirituall foode with all the faithfull at this day as it shal be by the grace of God more amply declared when the Lord of Neuers shall please to command conference of this matter To that which the Doctors slaundering the Ministers do say that they attribute more to themselues and to humane power then they do attribute to the power of God when they say that by faith they make present the things which be absent seeing that God according to the doctrine of the Ministers cannot make one selfe-same body to bee in diuers places at one instant The Ministers doo answere that such antitheses be foolish and vnfit for the purpose and that there is much more great apparance that the Doctors do presume more of their power and that of the other Priests of the Romane Church then of the power of God for God created not by his word but the heauens the earth and the other creatures therein contained And they in their consecration doo attribute vnto themselues the power to create their Creator as is contained in their breuiarie where the Priest saith Qui creauit me creatur mediante me He that created me is created my meanes of mee And the Ministers much maruell that the Doctors call the vertue of faith a humane power seeing the great and admirable effects thereof proposed vnto vs in so many examples of the scripture chiefly in the eleuenth Chapter of the Epistle to the Hebrewes where Saint Paul saith That the Saints by faith haue subdued kingdomes c. All which things surmount not onely the vertue but also the capacitie of humane vnderstanding In that immediately following this article there is but repetitions in the reply of the Doctors and many vnprofitable and superfluous wordes and little or nothing of that should be necessary to the purpose And as they haue answered them particularly to euery point which they repeate they send them now backe to the former answeres and pray them henceforth not to serue them twise with one messe Concerning the Sacrament of the Aultar as they call it The Ministers neither receiue nor any way approue that their Masse which they pretend to bee a Sacrament is a Sacrament and much lesse a sacrifice by which remission of finnes may bee any way obtained Yea they say that both their Priest and pretended sacrifice with all the things thereof depending are blasphemies and impieties by which GOD is dishonoured all the benefite of Iesus Christ buried and nought esteemed and the Church of Iesus Christ seduced and abused as by the pursuite of the Conference shall plainely appeare And also that the Ministers do no way corrupt either the sence or the words which Iesus Christ vsed in the institution of his holy Supper Thursday the 18. of Iuly in the yeare aboue said The reply or obiection of the Doctors against the answere of the Ministers touching the Article of the Omnipotencie of God on Satterday the 20. of Iuly THe Doctors say that this cosequence God cannot by his omnipotencie make one body to be in two places at one instant he is not therefore omnipotent is so good and strong that the Ministers without wrapping and more and more drowning themselues in execrable blasphemies to the great griefe and horror of the Doctors can no way denie the same And besides the two blasphemies maintained by the Ministers in their former answers that is to say that it was impossible for God to make one body to bee in two places and that it was impossible for him to will the same in the first article of theyr last answere they adde foure or fiue other blasphemies out of which doo flow yet many others besides the absurdities falshoods and impostures they vse to the said Doctors And first they set forth that God cannot do a thing which derogateth the order which he hath established in the world Secondly that it should bee to establish mutabilitie and change in the Councell of God did they confesse that hee
superfluitie or repetition in them or whether they be impertinent let the reader iudge But for this cause the Doctors will not cease to require eftsoones the Ministers that they bring some passage of the scripture to ground that God cannot make one body to be in two places seeing that this consequence is ouerfoolish and ridiculous God cannot lye Therefore can he not make one bodie to be in two places For so should they make their assumption Now God hath said and ordained that one body cannot be in two places therefore can he not make it so to be But neuer will they instruct by the truth of the Assumption or Minor Proposition the contrarie whereof hath bene sufficiently verified by many testimonies of the scripture The Doctors also require the Ministers to produce some Father yea some man euer reputed Catholique which hath dared to pronounce that God could not make one body to be in two places For full answere the said Ministers can bring forth none which euer hath vsed such a speech except S. Augustine but by them falsly alledged both touching the letter the sence of the letter The Doctors will not cease to beate both into the Ministers and also all persons that there is no place of scripture found nor booke of any auncient Father that God cannot make one body to be in diuers places Concerning the last article the Doctors haue resolued to shewe by the pure and expresse word of God expounded by common consent of all antiquitie that our Lord did institute the Sacrament and sacrifice of the Aultar and will teach the effect and vertue of the Masse according to the institution and ordinance of Iesus Christ And will make it also to be vnderstood that the Ministers haue polluted and defiled the Sacrament by Iesus Christ instiruted And that the Supper which the Ministers maintaine is no way the Sacrament but a prophanation of holy things containing execrable blasphemie whereof the whole world ought to haue horror Sunday the 12. of Iuly in the yeare aforesaid The answere of the Ministers to the writing of the Doctors sent to them by my Lord the Duke of Neuers the 22. day of Iuly about fiue of the Clocke in the enening Anno. 1560. THe Ministers before they answere particularly to the obiections and slaunders of the Doctors seeing that each way and causelesse they taxe them for blasphemers haue aduised to tell them in the beginning of theyr answere that to bee wronged by them they hold it not so great an iniurie nor themselues the more blasphemers for being so holden and reputed by them no more then our Lord Iesus Christ because he was so pronounced by Caiphas the high Priest and S. Stâ—phen to whom the like crime was imputed by the enemies of truth And Naboth who was likewise accused to haue blasphemed God and the king albeit he was innocent For it is the manner of all them which hate the truth and the light to blaspheme that which they vnderstand not as thereof write S. Peter and S. Iude and to giue the raines sometimes to their furie so that they shamelesly denie things most apparant and confesse others concerning the same which bee straunge and absurd Which thing is seene to haue befallen the Doctors about the Ministers whom they neither can heare attentiuely nor iudge of rightly And the full end of their purpose it seemeth is to contradict them indifferently in all things and to say without any examination or iudgement that whatsoeuer they produce is blasphemy and lies For the Ministers speaking of the omnipotencie of God according to that they haue learned thereof and is contained in the scriptures haue euer said that God is almightie in as much as he can do without any exception whatsoeuer he will and that there is no power in heauen nor in earth which is able to let alter or in any maner or wise hinder the full effect and perfect execution of his eternall vnchangeable counsailes But neuerthelesse that his omnipotencie must not be stretched without any discretion or distinction to all the things generally which men can conceiue or in their foolish phantasies imagine but to those onely which neither are nor can be contrarie to his iustice to his goodnesse to his wisedome nor consequently to his holy and eternall will wisedome and truth which is and euer shal be to doo all things well and wisely with number waight and measure and without that there is any inequitie disorder or contradiction in whatsoeuer he doth All which things being well vnderstood and considered will discharge the Ministers among all good and iust people from the sâ—aunders which the Doctors impose vpon them and falâ—ly published to make them odious to all the world and stirre vp publike hate against them Wherefore to make their slaunders more like to truth by adding and diminishing they change and alter almost the whole meaning of the Ministers well knowing that otherwise they could neuer haue meane to ground their slaunders nor to giue any colour or likelihood therevnto which thing shall now appeare by the deduction and particular confutation of the pretended blasphemies obiected to the Ministers by the said Doctors First the Doctors accuse the Ministers in that they haue said that the omnipotencie of God ought not to be measured but by the things onely which bee agreeable to his will and are not derogate either to his wisedome his truth his nature nor to the order which hee hath established in the world And to verifie their accusation and slaunder they breake in two this whole sentence and take thereof but the last part onely the which they haue seperated from those going before wherewith it was conioyned expresly by the Ministers the more clearely to expound and shewe how the omnipotencie of God ought to be knowne beleeued and adored of all the world Moreouer they haue not taken nor vnderstood the word Order as doo the Ministers Whereby the Ministers haue willed to signifie the estate and disposition which God by his prouidence and eternall and vnchangeable will hath established conserueth and entertaineth in all things rightly to gouerne and let that no confusion happen in his workes euen as S. Augustine hath defined it in his bookes De Ordine and hee himselfe hath vsed the same in the fift booke of his confessions Which the Doctors not vnderstanding haue reduced that which the Ministers thereof said to the ordinarie and wonted course of nature and to the mouing of creatures which bee in the world And to giue exception to the doctrine aforesaid they obiect the myracles which God doth aboue nature and thereof inferre that God doth and can doo many things against the order by him established and decreed Whervnto the Ministers answer that myracles albeit they be done beyond aboue the ordinary course of nature yet are they not done against the order aforesaid For as much as all things reduced to the prouidence and ordinance of God
conioyned they be sometimes by some occasion seperated and remoued the one from the other as touching their bodies yet for all that do they not leaue to be one flesh and one body by meanes of the societie and matrimoniall familiaritie which is betweene them In like case albeit that Iesus Christ with whom wee are conioyned and vnited by the faith and trust which wee haue in him and his promises bee as touching his bodie resident in heauen wee yet abiding vppon the earth and that by meanes thereof there is great distance and space betweene him and vs as touching his bodie that neuerthelesse hindereth vs not to bee flesh of his flesh and bones of his bones that hee is not our head and wee his members that hee is not our husband and wee his spowse that wee bee not of one selfe same body that wee bee not engrafted into him that wee be not cloathed with him that wee abide not in him as the boughes and buddes in the Vine And there is neither distance of times nor places whatsoeuer it be there is no difference of times which can hinder such a coniunction and that the faithfull eate truly his flesh and his bloud For as the auncient Fathers albeit they were two or three thousand yeares before Iesus Christ dyed yet left they not to communicate in his flesh crucified and to eate the same spirituall meate which we eate and to drinke the same spirituall drinke which wee drinke The faithfull also which are come twelue or fifteene hundred yeares after leaue not what place soeuer they be in to participate as did the Fathers in the same meate and in the same drinke which they haue done And no other difference there is betweene the eating of the Fathers which were before the comming of Iesus Christ and of them that haue followed him but the reason of more or lesse that is to say that there is in the one more ample and expresse declaration of the good will of God towards vs then in the other Whence must be concluded that from the beginning of the world vnto the end there neuer was nor shall be other coniunction betweene our Lord Iesus Christ and his Church then spirituall that is to fay wrought by the spirit of God For euen as there is but one faith in the Fathers and in vs which respecteth alwayes on the one part and the other our Lord Iesus Christ so are we not also otherwise conioyned with him then they haue bene As then it is so that the Fathers haue had no other societie nor communion then spirituall It followeth thereof that we also are not nor can be otherwise then spiritually cōioyned with him Neuerthelesse it is not said that wee and the Fathers are not flesh of his flesh and bones of his bones and that all together doo not partake as well in his humanitie as in his diuinitie But that which wee say is that all this participation which wee haue in him is by the operation vertue of the holy Ghost which thing Christ Iesus in S. Iohn speaking of the meane of this coniunction teacheth clearly when he saith The things which I speake vnto you are spirit and life And S. Paul also when hee saith Our fathers did eate the same spirituall meate and dranke the same spirituall drinke Now when wee speake of this spirituall eating common to vs and to the Fathers it must not therfore be thought that we reiect the holy Supper of the Lord or any way thinke that the same vse of bread and wine is superfluous no more then the vse of the water in Baptisme For our Lord knowing the blockishnesse of our vnderstandings and the infirmitie and weakenesse of our hearts and through the pittie he hath of vs willing to helpe and remedie the same hath not contented to haue left vs the ministerie of his word to assure vs of the participation which we haue in his flesh in his bloud and in all the good things thereon depending but hath also willed to adde therevnto the signes of bread and wine which he hath as seales to his word to seale in our hearts by the vse of the same the faith we haue of the foresaid coniunction by his word So that it sufficed him not to haue contracted a couenant with Abraham by the word and promise which he made vnto him but added moreouer therevnto the signe of Circumcision as a seale for more ample confirmation and assurance of the said couenant To the end then that each one may vnderstand what is the Supper of the Lord and what the Ministers do thereof beleeue and teach it is meete to consider and acknowledge in the same three things First the ordinance of the Lord contained in his word and declared by his Ministerie according to his commaundement by which this holy cerimony hath bene ordained and established in the Church for the edification and entertaining of the members thereof which thing must bee diligently obserued to haue it in that honour and reuerence as appertaineth and not to place it in the ranke of other cerimonies which haue no foundation nor reason to authorise them but the onely will and tradition of men Neuerthelesse heed must be taken that by the institution and ordinance whereof we make mention we vnderstand not a certaine pronuntiation of words or any vertue which is hidden in the same as do the Priests of the Romane Church who by ignorance and superstitious opinion which they haue thinke to haue consecrated and transubstantiated the bread and wine in the Masse by the vertue of fiue words Hoc est enim Corpus meum For this is my body breathed and pronounced ouer the Elements Wherein they are greatly deceiued and abused for as much as the word which is the formall cause of the Sacrament is not a word simply said and vttered but a declaration of the institution and ordinance of God made by the Minister according to his commaundement and a preaching of the death of Iesus Christ and of the fruite thereof by which the hearts of the hearers are lifted vp vnto the contemplation and meditation of his benefite and their faith stirred vp and inflamed in his loue and where the same shall not thus be done it must not be thought that the Elements be Sacraments As S. Augustine in the 80. Tract vpon Saint Iohn in these termes teacheth Whence commeth this vertue to the water that in touching the body it washeth the heart sauing that it is done by the word not because it is pronounced but because it is beleeued This word is the word of the faith which wee preach This saith the Apostle to wit If we confesse with our mouth that Iesus is the Lord and beleeue in our heart that God raised him from the dead wee shall be saued And continuing his speech hee addeth in the end these proper words to wit This word of faith which wee preach is that doubtlesse by which baptisme is consecrated
in the assembly one selfe-same bread to the end that all the partakers thereof should bee by that meane conioyned and more straightly closed in one body each one hath his owne particular the Priest one more great and the people one lesse Seeing also that the Cup is not any way distributed to them Furthermore what dutie do the Priests to inuite and exhort the people to communicate with them yea the Bishops themselues who would at this day repute it great shame to communicate with crafts-men and other inferior people To conclude had the Doctors well noted the custome of the Fathers which caused the Cathecumenians others there not prepared to communicate to depart the place where the Communion was celebrated and that likewise which S. Iohn Chrisostome saith thereof they would shame to defend such an abuse impietie as is that of their Masse And that the people may not bee ignorant of that which these holy Doctors therof saith we will translate the same word for word It is in vaine that the daily sacrifice is made It is in vaine that we abide at the Aultar there is no person which there communicateth I say not this to the end that yee communicate in any sort soeuer but that ye yeeld your selues worthy thereof Art thou not worthy to communicate so art thou not worthy to pray Also a litle after If some one were called to a banquet should wash his hands and sitting at the table should not eate nor taste ought of the meates which should there be serued should he not dishonour and wrong him that inuited him had it not bin better he had not come there Euen so it is with thee Thou art come thou hast sung the Psalme with the rest of the people thou hast confessed that thou wast of the number of the worthy in not departing with them which are vnworthy How then abidest thou and doost not perticipate of the table of the Lord Thou sayest I am vnworthy I answere thee that thou art so whereby also vnworthy of the Communion of prayers Thirdly the gobbets and offalls of Gospels and Epistles the Symbole praier other peeces of the scripture brought all confused and not hanging together said and proposed to the people in an vnknowne language against the expresse commaundement of God and without any edification of the congregation is no other thing then a vaine vsurpation of the name of God against the expresse prohibition which he hath made thereof And such robes are too straight and short to couer the shame and filthinesse of the Masse Fourthly what an execrable abuse is it to say that the Masse serueth to obtaine remission of sinnes not onely for the quicke but also for the dead And that the Priests passing yet further not to forget or leaue any blasphemy behind do diuide their hoste into three parts faigning one part to be for them in heauen an other for them which are on earth and the third for them in Purgatorie For the Sacrament which is not ordained but for confirmation of the faith of the word extendeth not further then the Ministerie nor the Ministerie further then this life As then it is so that they which are in heauen and they likewise whom they faine to be in Purgatorie are dead and departed from this world we must necessarily conclude that as the word cannot be preached to them so also the Sacraments cannot be administred to them And if they be not administred to them that they can profit them nothing The end of the Resolution Answeres to the last obiections proposed by the Doctors touching the Supper THe Ministers say that many things there are in the said obiections impertinent to the matter in question as that they demaund how long the doctrine abode in it puritie touching the Supper and the other articles of Religion Wherevnto they answere that from the time of the Apostles themsemselues there were heretikes and Antichrists as Ebion Cerinthus Simon Magus the Samaritanes and others who by their errors and heresies went then about to peruert the Aposto lique Churches and corrupt the pure doctrine which was therein Wherevntothe Apostles by all possible wayes did manfully oppose themselues reuoking and euer reducing all things to their first institution and foundation of the pure word of God as we see did S. Paul towards the Câ—rinthians and Galathians whose Churches although he had well planted and watered were neuerthelesse corrupred in his life time as well in manners as in doctrine And to that which the Doctors demaund how long after the decease of the Apostles continued the puritie of the doctrine and Religion in the Church of God as well in the Article of the Supper as in others the Ministers answere that so long time it there continued as the word of God was followed and preached To that which the Doctors say afterwards traducing the Supper celebrated in the reformed Church that the Ministers abuse those that are there present nought else giuing them but nothing betweene two dishes the Ministers answere that this blason much better fitteth the Doctors then them because they present not to them whom they haue summoned to their Masses but accideÌ„ts of indiuisible waues and the sight onely of the formes of bread and wine to feed them withall A litle after do they call their sacrifice of the Masse most precious whervpon the Ministers grant that they haue reason so to exault it to attribute thervnto so precious and magnificall a tytle for the great reuenewes and riches which this precious sacrifice hath brought vnto them wherof may well be said that it hath bene vnto them a fleece and golden Myne more abundant then euer was that of Iason or all the Mynes of the East In as much as they haue made the world beleeue and chiefly the founders of Abbayes Priories and other benifices that their sacrifices were vaileable to them for the redemption remedie and health of theyr soules Afterwards without all shame do the Doctors call the Supper of the Lord detestable because there is nought therein offred say they but common bread wine Whervnto the Ministers answere that in their Supper is truly presented bread and wine to the people which after consecration abide in their substance as before but they denie that therfore the said bread and wine be common by reason as heretofore hath bene amply declared to the Doctors that by the preaching of the Gospell and recytall of the ordinance of God both the one and the other is changed as is said touching the vse but not touching the nature To that wherein the Doctors do charge the Ministers to make insurrections conuenticles coniurations conspiracies and secret practises against the state of their Prince vnder colour pretext of their Supper the Ministers answer that the same was not to impugne their doctrine but rather shamelesly to despight and slaunder them And that the fidelitie of those of the reformed religion hath bene knowne