Bristowe saith that may be and yet the Church not be in their sight a contemptible companie no more then the olde Romanes and Turkes are to vs though we contemne their religion I aunswere I speake of the contempt of the Church not of the persons of men which often times are great Emperors and princes of the world To the place Matth. 10. You shal be hated of all men 〈…〉 r my names sake Bristowe inferreth the company that 〈◊〉 hated is not alwayes contemptible I confesse neither â—id I bring that texte but to shewe the perpetuall hatred â—f the world against the Church But Cyprian writeth â—hat Decius was more patient to heare that an Emperor 〈…〉 as set vp against him then that an other priest should â—e ordeined at Rome in the place of Fabianus This saith â—ristowe was not contempt but of feare Although I â—eny not but tyrants feare the church of God more then â—hey haue cause in respect of their earthly kingdome 〈…〉 t it followeth not but they do also contemne it and 〈…〉 inke their power greater and their glorie superior vntâ— it And in the example of Decius his indignation was â—he greater because the base and contemptible compaâ—y of the Church as he esteemed them durst choose an â—ther Bishop after he had slaine Fabianus purposing to â—estroy the Church vtterly That I alledge 1. Cor. 1. Not many wise men c. He â—â—yeth it was so in the beginning of the Church but not â—lwayes And so I do blindly alledge the text againste â—y selfe Because afterwarde the text saith the wise themâ—â—lues and the strong were confounded that is to saye conuerted 〈◊〉 deede if confusion and conuersion be all one it is â—â—mewhat that you saye but howe will the text beare â—â—at beside the improprietie of the speach that God hath 〈…〉 osen the foolishe things of the worlde that he might â—onuert the wisemen and the weake that he might conâ—ert the strong Last of all God hath chosen the inno 〈…〉 e and contemptible things of the worlde and those â—hings which are not that he might destroy those things â—at are As you say to confound is to conuert so you here best saye to destroy is to saue or else you cannot â—â—rooue the multitude of wise noble and honourable â—ersons that God hath chosen to be greater then those â—hat are reiected As for the textes of Esay 60. 10. â—ited by you and mee speake of the spirituall glorye of the Church not deliuering her from the contemptof the worlde where and among whome shee is a stranger That the church was and also should become inuisiblâ— Concerning the inuisiblenes of the church Bristowe sayeth I alledge so as no sober man would so that â—elike he wil driue me to purge my self of drunkennesse as the Apostles were fainâ— to doâ— Act 2. But what saye 〈◊〉 not sounding of sobrâ—â—tie One while that the vniuersall church of Christ is not seene at all of men because it is in heauen Gal. 4. And here he asketh if euery member be not in heaueÌ„ as the Apostle fayth Our conuersation is in heauen Phil. 3. and Peter the Apostle wâ—â— seene of all men I answere although men be seene iâ— earth yet their conuersation which is in heauen is not seene nor they them selues as they are in heauen with Christ which is our life Col. 3. ver 3. c. So much moâ—â— the vniuersall church being a spirituall coniunction oâ— all the members vnto Christ their head in heauen is noâ— to be seene with bodily eyes vpon earth But another while I say Ar. 80. it sufficeth that the church be knowne to Christ the head as he sayeth My sheepe heare my voice and I know them and to them yâ— be the members of the same body Here Bristowe quarelleth with me if your text import that it sufficeth to be knowne to the head why doe you iumble in the members afterward whether he be sober that vnderstandeâ—â— not a copulatiue proposition let wise men iudge And yet the text proueth as wel the sheepe to knowe one another by hearing Christes voice as Christe knowiâ—g them by his diuine election and prouidence But Bâ—â—stowe so great a craftes man of good conclusions d 〈…〉 deth this consequence Christ knoweth his sheepe 〈◊〉 the church forsooth may be inuisible and so he may for it is of his owne making and not of mine I had no more to proue but that Christ should not be head of an vnknowen body because he knoweth his owne body and the members knowe one another although neither he nor they be knowen vnto the worlde Yet another while I alledge that though not alway◠〈…〉 et at one certeine time it should become inuisible at 〈…〉 he comming of Antichrist or rather when Antichrist 〈…〉 at h preuailed I speake of the church in this world of the inuisiblenes vnto the wicked world what scripâ—ures haue you for that sayth Bristowe Ar. 27. 77. It â—as propheciâ—d that the church should flye into the Wildernesse The defection which saint Paul speaketh of concerning the churches inuisiblenesse I haue proâ—ed howe substantiall the argument is before Cap. 7. Par. 4. But nowe Bristowe opposeth scriptures to proue â—hat the church in the time of Antichrist should be both â—isible and vniuersall For there shal be preaching all the time of persecution by the true witnesses Apoc. 11. euen 1260. dayes or 42. monethes which commeth to three yeares and an halfe But after they be slaine and â—lye vnburied 3. dayes and an halfe which is also the time of Antichristes tyranny and the greatest ruffe of â—is crueltie who shall preache then openly against Antichrist for of such preaching we speake But lest you should imagine these dayes to be common dayes of 24. houres long as you seeme to doe of the 1260. dayes c. you may see that the inhabitants of the earth could not haue time to publish their death and send giftes c. in so short a season as three dayes and an halfe of naturall dayes account But you say the preaching shall be as generall as the persecution That cannot be of so smal 2 number of witnesses For that you quote Apoc. 14. pertaineth to the time of Antichristes consumption towarde the end and his final destruction for immediatly followeth the Angell shewing the fall of Babylon Last of all you obiect Apoc. 20. that the persecutors being in number as the sande of the Sea shall ouer the wide worlde compasse the campe of the faithfull the citie of God therfore the church shal be at the same time vniuersal super latitudinem terrae I doubt not but the church shal be vniuersall in her greatest straits dispersed ouer all the earth when shee is fled into the wildernes which signifieth her desolate condition not her place wout the world but neither of both is proued by the text before alledged For it followeth not although thâ— enimies with their multitude shall come
out of her secret place in the wildernes into the open sight of the world againe Ar. 16. 27. 79. 36. Contra Diuers times it was bold to chalenge preaching ministring of the sacrameÌ„tes yea and so boldly that it cost many of the chalengers their liues As Berengarius Brumo Marsilius de Padua Ioannes de Gaudano Ioannes Wickleue Waldo Ioannes Hus Ieronymus de Praga c. Ar. 77. The onely shew of contradiction is a falsification of of Bristow reporting my wordes Where all this while c. As though the Church hath alwaies bin so hidden the no members thereof might appeare But those wordes be of his own cauillous coÌ„positioÌ„ not of my writing But here beside the contradiction he noteth two thinges against me One that it cost not all these yea verie fewe of these there liues Neither did I say it cost al but many to iustifie this multitude Iohn Hus and Hierom are expressed beside many hundrethes that are conteined vnder c. The other matter is that neither these before appearing were secret protestans but open papistes Belike he would beare vs in hand that their open appearing conuersioÌ„ from popery was both in a moment of time But what if some of them were first papistes and afterward returned from popery to the catholike Church as Hus Hierom being conuerted by certaine Englishmen yet weere they not al such for Waldo was neuer any papist but a christian Catholike who seeing the horrible enormities of the Romish synagogue openly with many thowsands I renouÌ„ced her communion when she would not be reformed at his godly preaching 20 To bring her againe into open light Which is now brought to passe in our dayes Ar 16. 9â— Contra from the yere of our Lord 1414. being the time of the Councell of Constance the bright beames of the Gospell haue shined in the world Ar. 36. I see no signe of coÌ„tradictioÌ„ in these words except these propositioÌ„s be coÌ„tradictorie The bright beames of the sun do shine in the morning before the sun be ful risen the same is seene in opeÌ„ light after he is fully riseÌ„ aboue the earth The 21 The reuelation of Antichrist with the Churches flight into the wildernes was An. 607. when Bonifacius the 3. c. For vntill then the mysterie of iniquitie was preparing for his reuelation coÌ„ming for the generall defection Ar. 38. 36 16. Contra She hath not decaied there in the wildernes but beene alwayes preserued vntill God should reueile Antichrist which is now brought to passe in our dayes Ar. 16. The reuelation of the mystery of iniquitie was when Antichrist himselfe did opeÌ„ly shew that iniquitie which before was not throughly discouered God reueileth Antichrist when he openeth vnto men his horrible wickednes which to them were vnknowne A wonderfull contradiction of Antichrist reueiling himselfe and God reueiling Antichrist The 22 The Churches being in the wildernes was to be out of the sight knowledg of the wicked Ar. 27. 95. Contra speaking of the same space She was narrowly persecuted of the Romish Antichrist for a long seasoÌ„ Againe Although it were knowne to the papists yet it was in Italie when Marsilius of Padua preached in Fraunce when Waldo in England when Wickleue in Bohemia when Hus and Ierom of Prage did florish Why all these were well knowne to the papistes As though the Church could not be persecuted in her meÌ„bers except she were al knowneÌ„ or knowne to be the Church by her persecutors 23 A rule of the LogiciaÌ„s No man knoweth a relatiue except he know the correlatiue thereof Therefore though Christ had a body in earth yet could it be known of none but such as knew Christ the head of that body of whom the papistes were ignorant A 1. 80. Contra Our Church is now againe brought to light and knowledge of the world Ar. 96. So that now belike the papistes know Christ or the Logicians rule is verified onely for the time of the Churches being in the wildernes according as in other places he moderateth the matter saying We beleeue that the Church is not alwayes knowne to the wicked vpon earth Pur. 150. Ar. 77. 79 80. Whether the papistes know Christ or no certaine it is they will not acknowledg him who came into the world which was made by him and yet the world knew him not whom they would not acknowledge The papists cannot say they know not our Church although they will not acknowledge her to be the true Church and so my saying is true that our Church is brought into knowledg euen of the world of papistes The rules of LogiciaÌ„s are alway true but they are often ill kept by popish sophisters as the rules of coÌ„tradictioÌ„ here by Bristow 24 We beleeue that the vniuersal Church is not seene at all of men because it is in heauen Pur. 405. Ar. 95. 82. 74 80. Contra Our Church when it was most hidden might rightly be called Catholike that is vniuersall c. Here Cap. 10. Dem. 6 And whereas you say that no man aliue could name the place where it was you make an impudâ—nt lye For although it were vnknowen to the Papistes and enimies thereof yet was it knowen to the true members thereof I see no opposition except you will say there is no knowledge but by bodilie sight or that some members of the Church may not be seene in earth because Ierusalem the mother of vs all is aboue 25 And as for our Mother Church is no certaine place or coÌ„panie of men in any one place vpon earth but Ierusalem which is aboue is mother of vs all Pur. 377 Contra That no man aliue could name the place where it was is an impudent lie It was in Italie when Marsilius preached c. Vt suprà in contrad 22. Christe hath neuer wanted his spouse in earth though the blinde worlde when they see her will not acknowledge her to bee his spouse but persecute her as if she were an adultresse She was knowne to them that were her children The church of Christ is the nurse of Christians Ierusalem that is from aboue is mother of vs all Ar. 95 79 82. 106. Those are as great contradictions as these Bristowe is at Louane Bristowes foote is in his shooe The whole Church and mysticall body of Christ is in heauen therfore some members and parts therof can not be on earth 26 It is not called Catholike because it should be euery where For that it neuer was nor neuer shall be Ar. 95. Contra It should ouerflowe and fill all the world with righteousnesse Esai 10. That God hath an holie vniuersall congregation it is necessarie to beleeue It is dispersed in many places ouer all the world Ar. 73. 83. 80. It is not euery where and it is in many places be not contradictorie And the remnant may ouerflowe and fill the world with righteousnesse as Esai saith although it fill not euery place and person thereof nor
passion which was afterwarde who is so madde as D. S. to referre the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which is giuen to a present giuing or sacrifising But proceeding in his vaine purpose he sheweth that the faultes of the popish clergy aduanced by transubstantiation caused them to bee contemned of the people which contempt by Gods iustice stirred vp Martin Luther like a proude king of Babylon to come out of the North to fight against Ierusalē Can you forbeare laugh ing They that were carnal in the Popish Church priests bishops to holde their liuings Abats and Monkes for good pensions receiued this doctrine and gaue vp their abbies to the Prince But this good hath Luther done that he separated the good from the badde especially from the Popish votary the maried Monke and vowed Preist which sayeth No man ought to vowe chastity condemning therby not only an infinit number of virgins but also the blessed mother of God To this I answer that first of all he slaundereth them which denye the vow of chastity or rather celebrate for euery man is bound to liue chastly to be lawfull for they denye it to be lawfull only to those which are not certeine that they haue the gift of continency to continue with them long as they liue And as for the vow of the virgin Mary I pray you how proueth he that she made any Because saith he she wondered how she might haue a child seing she knew not any man Wherunto her own reason might haue replyed that hereafter shee might knowe a man except shee had vowed her selfe not to knowe at all any man I answere that though her reason might haue so replied for hauing a child yet for hauing such a child as should be the sonne of the highest reason could not satisfie her and therfore shee desired to be instructed by the angel by what meanes it should be without that any vow of virginity can be concluded in any lawfull forme of argument out of this place by any Logician in the world But contrariwise that she was betrothed vnto a man it is an vndoubted argument that she vowed not virginitie For if she should haue made any vow before her mariage she would not haue deluded her husband to promise her body to him when she had determined the contrarie If they say she vowed after mariage it is plaine by the Gospel she did it without her husbandes knowledge and therefore her vowe could not be lawfull For before Ioseph was instructed by the Angel of her case his purpose was to haue taken her home to him and vsed her as his wife vntill she was perceiued to be with child and then he would haue priuily forsaken her After this he sheweth what were the opinions of Luther Zwinglius and Caluine which he maketh to be three in number when by the consent of the Churches of Heluetia Sabandia it is manifest that the iudgement of Zwinglius and Caluine concerninge the manner of eating and drinking of Christes bodye and bloud in the sacrament of his supper was all one Now concerning that Caluine willeth vs to goe into heauen by faith there to feede of Christ spiritually Sander liketh it not because our nature not beeing able to climme vp to the seate of God in heauen the sonne of God came downe to vs to life vs vp into heauen in taking vpon him our humaine nature So when our faith called for Christ to come from heauen to helpe vs he let downe the corde of his humanitie and of his flesh and bloud And shall wee nowe when it is let downe to be fastened in our bodies and in the bottome of our heartes by eating it really shall wee nowe refuse it and say wee will goe into heauen by faith our selues and there take holde of Christ whereby we may be deliuered out of the deepe vale of miserie As though the corde shoulde haue needed to haue beene let downe if wee coulde haue fastened our bodyes to anything in heauen and ye◠our bodies are they which weigh downe our soules chiefely In deede if the sonne of God had not come downe vnto vs and ioyned our nature vnto his the anchor of our faith could haue had no hould in heauen But seing the sonne of God did not only come downe vnto vs but also is ascended from the earth and hath caried vs vp into heauen with him Eph. 2. ver 6. he letteth no more downe vnto vs the corde of his humanitye but we cast vp the sure anchor of our soules which is fayth entring into the inward parte of that spirituall tabernacle which is heauen whither our forerunner Iesus is entred being an high preist for euer after the order of Melchizedek Heb. 6. ver 19. And vnto this ascension by fayth the Apostle exhorteth vs Coll. 3. 1. If you be risen againe with Christ seeke those things that are aboue where Christ is sitting at the right hande of God set your minde vpon things that are aboue not vpō things that are vpon the earth These authorities proue sufficiently that we must goe into heauen by fayth our selues for the sonne of God after his dispensation fully accomplished in this world cōmeth no more downe to vs in his humaine nature vntil he come againe to receiue vs actually into the participation of his glory according to his promise Iohn 14. 3. But now let vs see what wholesome doctrine Sander teacheth in those his wordes euen nowe set downe First that fayth perteineth onely to the fathers before Christ and in them called for Christ to come downe vnto vs which when he is come dayly letteth down the cord of his humanity we haue no neede of faith to fasten it in our bodyes and hartes but of our hands For fayth he compareth to the tongue by meanes whereof helpe is called for but when a corde is lett downe the vse of the tonge is needeles and the handes must be occupied Therfore he saith It is not sufficient for a man to vse his tongue still and to let his handes alone So that by this kind of reasoning eating it really being let downe is the hand that without the tongue of faith fasteneth it to our bodies hearts Thirdly he holdeth that Christ neded not to haue ben incarnat if men could haue fastened their bodies to any thing in heauen Whereby he denieth that the fathers of the olde Testament by fayth were fastened in heauen before the incarnatiō of Christ restreining the vertue thereof not onely vnto the time since the same was actually perfourmed but also to the actuall and carnall manner of coniunction of the body of Christ with our bodies which they imagine to be in eating the flesh of Christ really To conclude professing that hee intendeth not to speake against the persons but against the opinions of the Sacramentaries specially against Zwinglius Caluine his purpose is to proue out of the worde of God That Christ giueth in his last supper the true
substance of his flesh and bloud not onely to our soules by wordes of promise but also to our bodyes vnder the formes of bread and wine Note here that the giuing wherein is the controuersie perteineth to our bodies and not to our soules Also that the giuing of Christes fleshe and bloud to our soules if I vnderstand this saying is not really but by wordes of promise whereof it ensueth that they which haue not eaten the flesh and bloud of Christ with their bodies from the beginning of the worlde are all perished because none can haue life in them but they that haue eaten his flesh and bloud which Sander holdeth cannot be eaten really and in deede but vnder the formes of bread and wine in the sacrament CAP. IIII. What the supper of Christ is according to the beliefe of the Catholikes He promiseth to shewe first out of the worde of god and next out of the monuments of the auncient fathers what the beliefe of the Papistes is concerning this sacrament Although he esteemeth euen Albertus Thomas Bonauenture Alexander c. worthie of credit by a rule of S. Aug. cont â—u li. 2. because they liued before this question rose betweene the Sacramentaries theÌ„ by which rule so vnderstoode we may esteme Berengarius Bruno Henricus de Gauduno Waldo Bertrame c. worthie of credite because they liued long before this question rose betweene the Papistes vs. Wherfore in this rule of Augustine is to be considered not betweene what persons but what time the question first arose betweene any persons and so the fathers of the first 600. yeares are the best and lest partiall witnesses Furthermore he sheweth that the supper of the Corinthians was not the supper of Christ but he had a supper of his owne And so rehearsing the wordes of the institution out of the Eua 〈…〉 listes S. Paul hee affirmethâ— that we are informed by these words the supper of Christ to be his owne body bloud giuen vnder the signes of the bread wine whereupon he gaue thankes turning by his almightie power the substance of bread and wine into the substance of his body bloud That Christ giueth his body to them that receiue the bread and wine worthily it shal be no controuersie betweene vs. But that he giueth it vnder the signes of bread and wine vnderstanding as he doeth signes for accidents he should haue prooued out of Gods worde if either he would or could haue kept promise likewise that Christ gaue thankes vpon the bread and wine and thirdly that he turned the substance therof into the substaÌ„ce of his body bloud But leauing other arguments for other places not being able to proue these things in any place he wil enquire whether the name nature of a supper be more agreable to their beliefe or to our meaning that is saith he whether Christ made his last supper of the substance of coÌ„mon bread wine or of his owne reall body and bloud As though we affirmed that the only substance of Christes supper were common bread wine not the body bloud of Christ. But to proceed let him goe with that lye his first argument to prooue how deintie costly a banket Christ made taking his leaue of his friends is taken of the great preparatioÌ„ promise made of it so long before which promise preparatioÌ„ how euil fauouredly he prooueth out of Melchizedeks bread wine Manna the table of Dauid Salomon the bread flesh of Elias c I omitt His conclusion is we must not suppose that Christ at his farewell gaue any other deinties beside common bread wine sanctified in vse onely and not consecrated in substance You may see howe absurdly he speaketh common bread sanctified which is as good as if he would say Christ gaue white blacke bread or whot colde wine We affirme that the bread wine were consecrated not in accidents but in substance to the vse of an holy sacrament that they might be the body bloud of Christ to as many as receiued the same worthily not by conuersion of the natural substance of one thing into another but by a wonderfull diuine vnspeakable change of that which is ordinatily a weake element of the world to be a mightie foode vnto eternall life The second argument he vseth to proue the excellencie of the banket is of the fine cookerie I vse his owne terme which also he doth exemplifie by making 16. or 20. dishes of egges alone which cannot be without many spices mixture great labour c. But Christ like a most cunning workman of simple litle stuffe and that without help of his disciples to prepare it made the gretest finest feast that euer was heard of vsing no shifts but only blessing or thanksgiuing The sinesse of this cookerie he setteth forth by a fine speculation of the furniture of the world by the Angels heauens elements froÌ„ whence it pleased God to make a reuolt of al things from the bottome of the earth vpward againe towardes him self And so made out of the earth vegitatiue thinges then sensible creatures last man with a reasonable soule as a briefe summe of all creatures a litle worlde who being seduced by the diuel was by the incarnation of the sonne of God restored then al thinges were briefely brought againe to God So that in this banket where Christ is giuen there is serued in one dish a composition most delicate of angels heauens elements of herbes fishes birds beasts of reasonable men and of God himselfe No kind of salet meates sauce fruits consectioÌ„ no kind of wine aqua vitae aqua composita liquors syrops can be found in nature made by art dâ—uised by wiâ—â—e but it is all set vpon this table and that in a small roâ—â—e c. Thus doe the Catholikes teach of the supper of our Lorde and beleeue it agreeable to his worde and worthie his worship What say you M. S. is this the doctrin of the Catholiks that the breade and wine being turned into the body and bloud of Christ are also turned into Angels heauens elements herbes fishes birdes beastes men God him selfe yea into all salets meates sauces fruits confections all kindes of wine aqua vitae aqua composita all liquors and syrops beside porredge puddings pyes pancakes and a great many other thinges which you haue not named but comprehended in generall wordes Is there a reall conuersion in deede by reason of your heraphicall reuolution And is this doctrine agreable to the word of God In what place is it written I pray you I suppose it to be this Eph. 1. It hath pleased God to restore in Christ all things which are in heauen which are in earth in him Where the Greeke word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 importeth a briefe gathering into one certeine head and summe that all thinges in heauen and earth are brought vnto Christ
true but with Cyril in these speaches it is nothing but true as he expoundeth himselfe Sander That which you saide of Saint Augustine Corporaliter non vmbraliter sed verè solidè I could not finde it vpon the 67. Psalm Fulke Then you sought it verie negligently for there it is written vpon the 16. verse of that Psalme in these words In ipso quippe inhabitat omnis plâ—nitudo diuinitatis non vmbraliter tanquam in templo a rege Salomone facto sed corporaliter id est solidè atque veraciter For in him dwelleth all the fulnesse of the diuinitie not shadowedly as in the temple made by king Salomon but corporally that is to say soundly and truely This exposition of the worde corporally pleased you not and therefore you coulde not finde it for if you had red ouer little more then halfe the discourse vpon the Psalm you must needs haue found it Sander Saith not Cyrill that the mysticall blessing maketh him to dwell corporally in vs Fulke He saith the vertue of the mysticall blessing when it is wrought in vs maketh him to dwell also corporally in vs. Iewel Saint Paul saith The heathens are become concorporall and partakers of the promise in Iesu Christ. Sander The word corporall signifieth no more but that the Iewes and Gentils are of one fellowship but the meanes of making them one remaine notwithstanding to be declared Fulke They are declared by S. Paul to be In Christ by the Gospell Iewell By the wordes corporally naturally a full perfect spirituall coniunction is meant excluding all manner of fantasies Sander Is not that coniunction which is by faith syncere loue wherof Cyrill saith we are not onely ioyned thereby but quoque also corporally a full perfect spirituall coniunction Fulke It is not full perfect by faith and loue except we be spiritually fed with the bodie blod of Christ. Sander If corporally be nothing else to say but truly without imagination How construe you these words of S. Paul All the fulnes of the Godhead dwelleth corporally in Christ Fulke I construe them as S. Augustine doth in Psa. 67. before said which place you list not to find And I pray you do you coÌ„strue corporally so that you vnderstand the godhead to be a bodie as in your next argument a coniugatis Sander How can you auoid the yoke the dependance the mutual respect that is betweene bodie bodily if bodily be truely then corpus with M. Iewel is latine for trueth Fulke The yoke is auoided when the aduerb signifieth only a similitude vnto that which is meant by the Nowne as spiritualiter enforceth not the presence of a spirite but after the similitude or maner of a spirite So angelicè viuere ventoâ—èiactare regaliter epulari To liue like an Angel To boast vainly like the winde To feast like a king c. As for corpus although it be not Latine for trueth yet to signifie trueth sometime it is not harde to finde in the scripture S. Paul saith The Iewish feastes are vmbra futurorum corpus autem Christi the shadowe of things to come but the bodie is of Christ what is the sense of bodie here but trueth As for Sanders feare least Christes naturall bodie might so be transformed into a trueth of faith or charitie or bones without fleshe or skinne without flesh or bones is vaine and foolish yea spiteful and malicious for if bodie and bodily be somtimes taken for trueth and truely according to the circumstance of the place it will not followe that those wordes should always be so taken where the text openly reclaimeth Iewel Otherwise there must needs follow this great inconuenience that our bodie must be in like maner cor porally naturally and fleshly in Christs bodie For Hilarius saith We also are naturally in him And Cyrillus We are corporally in Christ. Sander It is most true during the time of the coniunction Fulke The time of the coniunction is perpetual for Hilarie saith We are inseparably vnited in him lib. 〈◊〉 Teach your Papistes that the bodie of Christ is none owise in their mouth bodie then they are in the body of Christ you may whistle for your Popish real presence Iewel That we be thus in Christ requireth not any corporall being Sander That were a fine being M. Iewel that Christs bodie should be in vs corporally yet the being shoulde not be corporall Fulke This is a fine wit M. Sander being demanded of an horsmill to answere of a milhorse M. Iewell would knowe whether any corporall being is required that we I say we should be in Christ corporally You answere of Christes being in vs because you cannot auoide the absurditie of our beeing in Christe corporally after your corporall and carnall vnderstanding Iewell It requireth not any locall being Sander It is a locall being in respect that the substance of Christ occupieth the same place vnder the forme of bread which the substance of bread did occupie before Fulke That is a fine place for a man of perfect stature But why answere you of Christes being in the Sacrament when M. Iewel speaketh of our being in Christ corporally I perceiue your infirmitie you cannot heare on that side Iewel Christ fitting in heauen is here in vs not by a naturall but by a spirituall meane of being Sander The being of Christ in vs by his spirite is also natural concerning the nature of his godhed which is euery where Fulke Still you take chalke for cheese Wee enquire of the beeing of his humanitie whether it may be naturally sitting in heauen and here with vs. Iewell Saint Augustine sayth After that Christ is ascended he is in vs by his spirite And S. Basil and againe S. Augustine saith the like in diuerse places And Christ spake in S. Paul c. Sander Shall one trueth alwayes displace another with you These be sowters arguments Christ is God therefore he is not man he is in heauen ergo he is not in earth c. Fulke Saint Augustine by his ascension and presence by his spirite concludeth the absence of his humanitie from the earth Ascendit in Coelum non est hîc he hath ascended into heauen and he is not here In Ioan. Tr. 50. This is no sowters argument except Saint Augustine be a sowter in fine Master Sanders deintie iudgement Iewell This coniunction is spirituall therefore needeth not neither the circumstance of place nor corporall presence Sander The coniunction is spirituall but the maner of working it is brought to passe by the corporall substance of Christ. Fulke The corporal substance needeth not to come vnto vs that a spirituall coniunction may be made betweene Christ and vs the spirite of God is the onely necessarie meane to make a spirituall coniunction Iewel The coniunction that is betweene Christ vs neither doth mingle persons nor vnite substances but it doeth knit our affects togither and ioyne our willes saith S. Cyprian Sander S. Cyprian
A REIOYNDER to Bristows Replie in defence of Allens scroll of Articles and Booke of Purgatorie Also the cauils of Nicholas Sander D. in Diuinitie about the Supper of our Lord and the Apologie of the Church of England touching the doctrine thereof CONFVTED BY WILLIAM FVLKE DOCTOR IN DIVINITIE AND Master of Pembroke Hall in Cambridge Seene and allowed AT LONDON Printed by H. Middleton for George Bishop ANNO. 1581. To the Christian Reader ALlen the Author of the Popish challenge as it is now confessed and of the Booke of Purgatorie as he alwayes acknowledged finding mine answere to both these treatises so well grounded vpon the authoritie of the holy Scriptures and testimonies of the most ancient writers that albeit he might quarell at many bie matters yet he was not able to auoyd the substance of mine arguments and answeres determined not to aduenture his credite in publishing any replie vnder his owne name and therefore turned ouer the businesse to one Bristowe whose impudence being approued in his Motiues and demaundes was thought more meete to take so desperate a cause in hand Bristowe himselfe on the otherside perceiuing that it was impossible for him to make any shewe of replie that might satisfie any meane witte if hee should followe me orderly and directly from point to point as I haue followed Allen durst not once vndertake that lawfull course of replying which I haue alwayes obserued in answering but by confounding of many diuers matters together hath sought to bring a great mist vpon the cause vnder which hee might rather hide then defende his master Allen and he himselfe like a pretie man nowe and then start out and giue a perilous blowe and so retyre into his cloude againe For this purpose it was not sufficient for him leauing all order of replying to take vpon him the confutation of two books of myne of most diuerse matters in one of his but that the confusion might bee greater and the light of trueth appeare much lesser he must defende two more of his owne So that hauing nowe iumbled together no lesse then sixe treatises in one two of Allens two of mine and two of his owne he thinketh himselfe so well armed with darkenes and confusion that if he cannot haue a conquest yet he may be sure to haue a starting hole to hide himselfe in And first he findeth great fault that his motiues and demaunds which most men for the great follie shewed in thē dispised were not first answered dreming that my books should neuer haue beene put in print but to make a shewe of answere to his motiues and demaunds But how vainely he gesseth mine answere printed to those wodden workes of his doth plainely discouer Of like vanitie and more impudence it is that hee affirmeth constantly that I was faigne to set foorth those bookes without priuiledge albeit I say the one was authorized distinguishing betweene priuiledge and authoritie wherein I know not what the peeuish quareller meaneth For this I am sure that both those bookes had such approbation and license to be printed as al bookes concerning religion ought to haue by the Queenes iniunctions which I call count a sufficient authorizing Concerning priuileging I suppose Bristowe cauelleth because he knoweth not what the name of a priuiledge signifieth for which I will remit him to some lawyer to learne But where I affirmed that my booke was authorised two yeares before it was imprinted he douteth whether he may beleeue my bare word because I write in the same We beleue that the Catholike Church hath no cheefe gouernour vpon earth but Christ vnto whom all power is giuen in heauen in earth But I pray thee Bristow what doth this hinder thee to beleeue me vpon my bare word Thou demandest a question in the margent What if the Church were in England onely or one were King of all Countries sometime where it is I might according to Salomons aduise answere thee according to thy folly deferre my resolution vntill either the Church be in England only or that one were King of all Countries where it is But lest thou shouldst thinke thy self wise in thy folish question I answere that if either of both those cases should come to passe which are both impossible Christ should stil reteine his office and power that he hath in heauen and earth and that one King of England or of many coūtries should haue no more authoritie ouer the Church then the Queene of England now hath ouer that portion of the Church that is in England or ouer all those portions that are in other her seuerall dominions But whereas Bristow saith my former booke commeth forth only by permissiō to make a shew of somewhat for a time if after it chaunce of some Papist to be dasht out of countenance then the shame to be no mans but onely Fulkes I wish the gentle reader to consider two thinges First that he will charge no man with the shame of mine errors if any he can proue but me onely as in deede there is no reason that any man should beare the blame of my folly but my selfe least of al the church of God Secōdly that by quarelling at the want of priuiledge and authorizing of my writinges he acknowledgeth this his owne booke of reply to lacke neither priuiledge nor authoritie so that if I not onely dash it out of countenaunce but also shewe it to be voyde of wisdome learning and trueth the shame shall not be priuate to Bristow alone but cōmon to all the popish faction beyond the sea on this side the same by whose cōmon consent it seemeth to be penned and set foorth Bristows reply is conteined in 13. Chapters to euery of which and to euery part of them as they are intitled by himselfe I will answere in order that they which liste to conferre my Reioynder with his Reply may see I seeke not by confusion to couer any falshood but by orderly proceeding to bring the trueth to light Faultes escaped The first number signifieth the page the last the number of the lines Page 14 line 9 for aid lege ende 15 36 Haeie l. Hovve 16 28 ap l. cap 24 l. 27 28 c read Apotactites Encratites c. 33 23 mortuis l. mortuos 35 31 con 30 l. con 3 37 1 birth l. death 38 24 Constantine l. Constans 41 3 l. Papias 43 17 the l. their 9 sute l. state 45 l. 21 read so I 46 14 ledging l. begging 55 31 erre but l. erre both 65 10 16 l. Peter and Peter 71 30 euer l. euen 76 2 l. 2 Tim 3 80 8 l. consent in the truth 101 17 disputing l. disprouing 109 24 restored l. restrained 137 35 reade sufficiently satisfied 138 33 course l. cause 148 31 l in the blisse 151 16 if l. of 152 29 true l. tree 156 2. vvhot l. vvhotter 25 l. infarced 158 10 l. in vvhich he 20 applied l. replied 174 26 l. peeces 175 Iam
then in deede sayeth Bristowe â—he day of our Lorde is instant And howe knowe you â—hat For our Lorde Iesus Christe sayeth he will kill â—im with the breath of his mouth What immediatly Bristowe so soone as he is shewed openly will you â—llowe him no time to exercise the power of Satan in all lying signes and wonders shall he be killed before he haue practised all deceite of vnrighteousnes in them that perish to whome God shall â—ende the efficacie of errour that they may beleeue lying that all they which haue not beleeued the trueth but had pleasure in vnrighteoâ—snesse may be condemned This will aske a longer time then three yeares and an halfe of the Sunnes reuolution or 42. months of the Moones circuite It is not one mannes person or age that can suffice to deceiue all them that haue not beleeued the trueth His last conceite in distinguishing the apostasie from the reuealing of Antichrist by the token giuen of the abolishing of the Romane Empire which should come to passe before the reuealing but not before the apostasie because it is his owne drousie imagination without grounde I will not vouchsafe to confute especially seeing the Apostle ver 3. ioyneth the Apostasie and the reuelation immediately together Whether Antichrist or the Apostasie agree to the Protestantes In this title is nothing but surmises wherof he him selfe is vncerteine but for one place in the Apocalipse he would saye vnder the churches leaue that our heresie is the apostasie the place is in the first Vâ— of the Locustes and their king Abaddon Apoc. 9. where somethings agree and other things agree not c. But let him looke on the commentarie of Bullinger Alphonsus Chytraeus Iohn Bale and other and he shal finde a neerer agreement of that kingdome to the Pope and his lecherous Locusts the Monkes and Fryers then he can imagine vnto vs. I passe ouer the abomination of desolation which one while he maketh Luthers and Caluins inuentions another while the kings armes set in place of the moste sweete and glorious roode yea the image of a vile grassehopper in a church that is well knowen which is an vmbraticall desolation as the images of Iupiter and the Emperors were in the temple c. matters to be laughed at although perhaps he lye because he dare not name the church or else is afrayd it should be refourmed if any vaine painter hath set vp such images And yet what more common in Poperye then not onely to paint but also to carue the images of kings and noble mens armes euen vpon the roodeloft of the Churches where they were patrones At last hee challengeth mee to ioyne with him vppon his last demaund which is apostasie vnto which I haue aunswered long since Finally he will discharge the Pope from being antichrist by the commentarie which the scripture it selfe makes The seuen heads are seuen hilles vppon which the woman sitteth And they are seuen kings whereof fiue are falne which are the persecuâ—ing kings before the time when this was spoken What then One is presently who therefore is ment of the Romane Emperors and all other kings persecuting with them The other is not yet come and when he commeth he must remaine a short season who euidently is Antichrist in proper person This exposition hitherto may agree with the Pope Nay sayth Bristowe for he must remaine not a long season as the fiue and as the one but a short season only three yeares and an halfe But where haue you the length of his continuance compared with the fiue and one All the time of the Churches persecution is but short in comparison of the infinite comfort that she shal haue euerlastingly though it be long in the iudgement of fleshe and blood measuring the time by the breuitie of mans life and the seasons of this worlde as Bristowe doeth the three yeares and an halfe But this is worthie to be noted that he expoundeth the sixt king for the whole state of Romane Emperors and other persecuting kings as he doeth the fiue kings that were past and yet against all reason and analogie wold haue the seuenth which is antichrist to be one singular man so to auoide that the whole rabble of Popes cannot be antichrist Nowe followeth the exposition of the tenne hornes which are tenne kings which haue not yet taken kingdome but they shall take power as kinges euen in one houre with the beast that is together with Antichrist sayth he to serue him as his feede knights I maruell whether he will not expound the houre in this place for the 24. part of a naturall daye For otherwise wee see by histories that the aduauncement of the Pope was the decay of the Empire in the West and with him arose a multitude of kings in euery prouince which before were subiect to one Emperour And so you see euidently sayth Bristowe by these seuen hilles thus expounded that the woman which sitteth vpon them is not so little a one as you do make her but that shee is Mundus impiorum the whole worlde of wicked men But where do we see this euident exposition of the seuen hilles wee haue seene the exposition of the seuen heades to bee seuen kings and also seuen hills but we see no exposition of the hills who must needs be taken in their proper sense because they are the exposition of anotheâ— figuratiue speach namely seuen heades But the woman you say is no little one which sitteth on the seuen hilles but the worlde of wicked men Let the holye ghost I pray you expounde the woman as well as the heades of her beast And the woman which thou sawest is that great citie which hath the kingdome ouer the kinges of the earth This is a cleare exposition of the whore of Babylon the woman and as cleare a description of the citie of Rome which in that time had the kingdome ouer the kinges of the earth and is the citie builded vppon seuen hilles before expounded to be one of the significations of the seuen heades a persecuter of the sainctes vnder the Emperors and a poisoneâ— and persecutor of the Church vnder the Popes And therefore Mundus impiorum is a false exposition which I will prooue by this reason The whore of Babylon is a great citie hauing dominion ouer the kings of the earth but the whole worlde of wicked men is not a great citie hauing dominion ouer the kinges of the earth therfore the whore of Babylon is not the whole worlde of wicked men Againe The whore of Babylon is a citie situated vpon seuen hilles The whole worlde of wicked men is not a citie situate vppon seuen hils therefore the whore of Babylon is not the whole world of wicked men The third part Concerning the question of purgatorie and first ab authoritate scripturae negatiuè I saide Purg. 44â— It is no good logike to conclude negatiuely of any one place or booke of scripture yet
of parents murtherers ince 〈…〉 uous persons remouers of their neighbours markes oppressors of the fatherlesse and straungers c. and generally against all transgressours of the Lawe vnto whome the curse of eternall damnation is threatned â—n the same wordes ' that it is to the rest Marke also where the Apostle to the Galath 3. by this curse proâ—eth all them that bee vnder the lawe to be subiectâ— vnto this curse howe the serpent denying this curse to bee the assurance of eternall death maketh the case of them to bee nothing so daungerous but continuing vnder the Lawe they may auoyde eternall death And where he saith euerie one in the Epistle is not meant of Christians I woulde knowe of him whether the Galathians to whome saint Paule writeth were not Christians but yet seduced by false Apostles to take vpon them the obseruation of the lawe which as it was impossible so it would bring them from the blessing of Christ vnto the curse of God That true Christians are discharged of this curse it is by the onely merite of Christes satisfaction and not that the sinnes themselues deserue not euerlasting death though they bâ—â— neuer so small of their owne nature by the sentence of Gods curse which is a iust rewarde for transgression Heb. 2. The two other places that I cite for this purpose The soule that sinneth shall dye Ezech. 18. and the rewarde of sinne is death Rom. 6. he will expounde by the saying of saint Iames Chapt. 1. sinne when it is consummate gendreth death as though this place of S. Iames denyed sinne not brought into acte to deserue death because shewing that the cause of mens destruction iâ— in themselues from the first concupisence to the laste and grosest Acte hee concludeth that those grosse acts bring a man into eternall death Our sauiour Christe saith this is condemnation that light is come into the worlde and men haue loued darknes rather then light Were it not good Logike and Diuinitie also of this place to conclude that condemnation perteineth not to men but where the light offered is refused or that if Christ had not come none had ben condemned Iohn 3. and likewise yea much rather wher Christ saith If I had not come and spoken vnto them they shoulde not haue had sinne Iohn 15. Were the obstinate Iewes cleare of sinne by Bristowes iudgement before Christ came But let vs examine his reason It is sinne saith he as soone as it is gendred but it gendreth not death so so one as it is gendred Therefore some sinne there is that gendreth notd eath The minor is false for Sainct Iames saying that sinne consummat gendreth death doth not say that sinne gendreth not death so soone as it is gendred But beholde yet his impudent wresting of the scripture hee addeth also an exception vnto sinne consummat that not euery sinne consummat gendreth death except the matter bee of weight accordingly For els that the lightnesse of the matter as an idle worde bringeth not death hee sufficiently signifieth in saying that in a weightie matter the lightnesse or imperfection of consent doth it not These are his wordes by which you may see that without all shame hee imputeth such sayings to Sainct Iames as hee can finde neuer a worde in hiâ— sounde like such 〈◊〉 saying But this is the manner of heretikes which learne not all trueth out of the Scriptures to bring their opinion to the scripture and to inforce the wordes thereof against all equitie to signifie and say whatsoeuer it pleaseth them Nowe that saint Iames holdeth that euerie sinne deserueth death I will proue out of his owne saying by this argument Whosoeuer is guiltie of all the lawe and commaundements deserueth eternall death Whosoeuer offendeth in one is guiltie of all therefore whosoeuer offendeth in one deserueth eternall death The maior I truste you will graunt The minor is Sainct Iames cap. 2. Whosoeuer shall keepe the whole lawe and offende but in one pointe hee is guiltie of all Then seeing euerie sinne is a breach of Gods Lawe as Sainct Iohn affirmeth Iohn 3. not onely greate sinnes but also small sinnes wherein soeuer men offende against the lawe of GOD deserue eternall death which cannot bee auoyded but by remission for Christes sake for bee the sinne neuer so small it is committed against GOD the authour of the Lawe who thereby hath forbidden all sinnes which reason the Apostle vseth to prooue that hee which offendeth in one is guiltie of all And therefore the textes by mee alleged doe sufficiently proue that all sinnes of their owne nature are mortall Whether after sinne remitted payne may remayne That God remitteth the punishment with the fault in respect whereof the punishment is due I proue by Ezek. 18. 33. where the Lorde promiseth to put away the remembrance of a sinners offences that truely turneth vnto him bringing forth the fruits of repentance Bristow saith this taketh not place before the daye of iudgment whereby it would ensue that to man could haue comfort of his sinnes forgiuen in this life But he opposeth the sayings of the Prophet Psal 24. 78. Lorde remember not the sinnes of my youth and Lorde remember not our olde sinnes which are the prayers of the penitent to obtaine forgiuenesse of their sinnes which once obtained they say The Lorde hath remoued our sinnes from vs as farre as the East is from the West Psalme 102. That may bee saith Bristowe in respect that they bee remoued from eternall damnation although they haue yet to abide neuer so much temporall punishment I will proue that to bee false To bee remoued as farre as the East is from the West is as farre as may bee but not to bee remoued from temporall punishment is not to bee remoued as farre as may bee therefore it is not to bee remoued as farre as the Easte is from the West But the whole Psalme saith Bristowe is spoken not of the time of our receiuing into Gods fauour by absolution but of our finall restitution which shall bee at the later day What can bee saide more absurdly Thankes are there giuen to GOD not onely for spirituall benefites but also for temporall The fatherly pytie of GOD towardes vs as his children which keepe his couenant and are mindefull of his commaundements to doe them is there set forth which euery man that is not blinde with hereticall malice will acknowledge to bee extended towarde vs in this life therefore also the forgiuenesse of our sinnes and remouing of them as farre as Heauen from earth and East from West As for the argument of singing that Psalme in the popishe Church vppon the feaste of Christs ascension to proue that it pertayneth altogether to the later day is as good as it is true â—hat the wordes there spoken are onely of our finall â—estitution at the later day To the example of the publican hee aunswereth â—hat there is no more saide but that hee went home â—ustified
euerlasting rest of infantes that were not baptized But what saith Bristowe to my reply which is this The same reason serueth as well against the Popish Purgatorie because we finde it not in the holie Scriptures Bristowe asketh whether Saint Augustine doth so reason against it As though that were materiall when the reason will binde one man as wel as another and one matter as wel as another As for his opinion of prayer for the dead as I haue often saide proueth not a thirde place as for the two places De Ciu. Dei lib. 21. cap. 13. 24. the one manifestly corrupted the other iustly suspected I haue spoken to them both alreadie Other Doctors about prayer for the dead I cited Purg. 382. Gelasius 24. 92. C. Legatur That no man can be absolued of the Pope after his death and wherefore then serue the Popes Pardons Bristowe answereth that all their suffrages are only for them that die in their communion and not for excommunicate persons Verie well yet are you not escaped For where is the Popes commission for pardoning Quodeunque c Whatsoeuer thou shalt loose vpon earth it shal be loosed in heauen c. if this be your commission as well for giuing pardoÌ„s as for absoluing excommunicate persons this commission cannot be exercised but vpon the liuing We read saith Gelâ—sius that Christe did raise the dead we reade not that he did absolue them that died in errour If I had pleasure to enterlarde the Doctors sayinges as you haue I should adde that we reade not that Christ gaue pardon to any in Purgatorie And because he alone had power onely this to doe he committed it to Peter the Apostle principally Whatsoeuer thou shalt loose vpon earth it shabe loosed also in heauen c. He saith vpon earth for he neuer saide that he was to be absolued which died in his binding Likewise that this authoritie giuen by this texte be it more or lesse is to be exercised onely vpon men liuing on the earth you may read C. 24 q. 2. Quod autem And that no man can be excommunicated or absolued after his death it is shewed by the wordes of the Gospell in which it is said whatsoeuer you shal binde c. he saith vpon the earth not vnder the earth Where I cited out of Cyprian Cont. Demetr Pur. 140. when men are departed from hence there is no place of repentance no effect of satisfaction Here life is either lost or saued Here prouision is made for euerlasting life by the worshipping of the fruite of faith Bristowe chargeth me with clipping because I left out the last periode which is neither to nor fro my purpose Likewise where I said he exhorteth Demetrianus himselfe to repentance which had bene a wicked man and a persecutor of Christians he chargeth me with changing for I should haue said which presently was I changed no worde of Cyprian in saying he had beene and a reasonable man would haue vnderstoode me that he presently was such a one when I said Cyprian exhorteth him to repentance But what is the answere This which is expresly written of Infidells in hell and of baptisme I pretend to be written of the faithfull in Purgatory and of penance after baptisme I answere Cyprian speaketh generally of all men not of Infidels only of al men in this world and not of Infidels in hell Nec quisquam c. Neither let any man be staide either by sinnes or by yeares that he should not come to obteine saluation To him that remaineth still in this worlde no repentance is to late The way is open vnto pardon and to them that seeke and vnderstand the trueth the accesse is easie Finally after he had saide that passage is from death to life the place by me cited he addeth Hanc graiiam This grace Christ bestoweth this gift of his mercie he giueth by subduing death with the trophee of his crosse redeeming the beleeuer with the price of his bloud reconciling man to God his father quickening a mortall man by heauenly regeneration Him if it may be let vs all followe let vs be esteemed by his sacrament and signe he openeth vnto vs the way of life he restoreth vs to Paradise he bringeth vs to the kingdome heauen with him we shall alwayes liue c. These wordes declare that Cyprian acknowledgeth one meane of saluation as well for the Gentile to be baptised as for the penitent Christian by the onely mercie of God in Christe obteined in this life without any satisfaction of paine for euer after this life and therefore he saith moreouer That beeing made the sonnes of God by Christ restored by his bloud we shall alwayes reioyce with him We Christians shall be together with Christ glorious blessed of God our father reioycing of perpetuall pleasure alwayes in the sight of God and alwayes giuing thankes to God For he can not be but alwayes ioyfull and glad which when he was guilrie of death is made sure of immortality Thus doth Cyprian promise to Demetrianus if he did repent but euen immediately before his death and were baptised that he should enioye the same state of felicitie with all faithfull Christians in perpetuall ioy after death with Christ. In like maner he exhorteth them that were fallen in persecution to repent in this worlde while confession may be receiued and satisfaction and remission made by the Priest is acceptable to God which he speaketh generally as if he had saide no satisfaction or remission made by the Priest auaileth to them that are departed To the place of Chrysostome whiche I cited against himselfe Pur. 251. Bristowe after he hath remoued the question from the cause to the person answereth that no friend no iust man shall helpe him that dieth in mortal sinne either committing euil or doing no good I say no more but as I saide before Let it be compared with Chrysostomes other saying the Homilie next before 41. in 1. Cor. and with Allens exhortation in the same Chapter Pur. 242. If thou yet chance c. Out of Ambrose although allowing prayer for the dead I cited in Psalm 4. Bene c. The Prophet did well to adde on earth for if he be not cleansed here he can not be cleansed there I should haue saide cleane saith Bristowe for though he be not cleane from veniall sinnes he may be cleansed there as also from the temporall debt of his remitted mortall sinnes But he forgetteth the worde of the Psalme out of which Ambrose maketh his note Vt emundet cum in terra that he may cleanse him on earth why was it well added on earth if he might be cleansed after this life There is no cleansing but on earth Where Ambrose was alledged by Allen Pur. 104. to proue that euerie man immediately after his death doth feele that he must looke for in the day of iudgement I saide Purgatorie 105. I maruell wherefore it is brought in if it bee not to
life he saith Non tamen tales de quibus dictuÌ„ est quòd regnuÌ„ Dei noÌ„ possidebunt nisi conuenienter poenitentibus eadem crimina remitâ—â—ntur Yet not such of whom it is said that they shal not possesse the kingdome of God except vnto them conueniently repenting the same crimes be forgiuen Here although perhaps you may gather that such persons are not excluded yet can not you inferre that for their great sinnes remitted they should goe thither but for their small sinnes such as he spake of before What the opinion is of him that made the 41. Homilie De Sanctis vnder the name of Augustine it forceth not greatly seeing he doth not expounde thâ—t place 1. Cor 3. as Augustine himselfe doth in many places and yet holdeth that not capitall but small sinnes are purged with that fier 8 Of Limbus Patrum I denied not but Augustine was of opinion that the fathers before Christ were in hell no not in that booke Contr. Feliciam Arrian But I wished his reason to be marked wherefore he counted it blasphemous to say that our sauiours soule was committed to prison in heâ— because the soules of good men are immediatly called to Paradise much more the soule of Christ who commended the same into his fathers hand and promised to be with the theefe the same daie in Paradise To this reason Bristowe aunswereth nothing In the saying of I renaeus Lib. 3. Cap. 33. cited by Allen I said it seemeth the name Adam to be taken for a common name of mankinde But Bristowe wondereth at my blinde ignorance as not knowing that Tatianus against whom Irenaeus writeth denied the saluation of Adam the first man As though it were necessary therefore that Adam in this place must signifie that singular man whereas it is euident that rendring a cause why Saint Luke beginning the genealogie at Christe endeth it in Adam he disputeth first of the mystery of our redemption generally from Christ extending vnto all ages and saith Necesse fuit c. It was necessary that our Lorde comming vnto the lost sheepe and making a recapitulation of so greate a disposition and seeking his owne workemanship to saue euen the same man which was made hiâ— image and similitude that is Adam filling the times of his condemnation which was for disobedience c. I see not what greate blindnesse it is here to take Adam for mankinde as well as the lost sheepe but admitt he meaneth our first parent which I denied not of what skill proceeded it in Allen to interpret these wordes of Christs descending into hell which is the matter there in question when they are manifest of Christs incarnation to saue all mankinde both the Fathers and vs The other place of Irenaeus Lib. 5. almost in the end I saide to ouerthrowe the Popish fantasie of Limbus I might haue added also of Purgatory where Irenaeus affirmeth that Christ after his death went into such a place as all his disciples shall rest in vntill the time of the generall resurrection which was the place where the deade were before Bristowe replyeth he saith not that the disciples shall goe into the same place that Christ went but into an inuisible place c. whereto I answere how is it manifest that they shall goe into such a place but by the example of Christ who went into the place where the deade were And how can the text which he citeth proue it The disciple is not aboue the master if euery disciple should not goe into the same place but as you holde some to a much better some to a worse wheras he speaketh of one inuisible place appointed by God for all the disciples of Christ. And thus an end of al your caueling vpon such places of the Doctours as were cited by me Which how rightly I haue discharged from your manifolde wrangling that the indifferent teader might more throughly perceiue I wish him to compare your cauills with those places of mine which you quote where he shall see that you haue taken greater paines to pick quarrells at me then vsed diligence to defend your Author whose bookes you haue vndertaken to mainteine beside that of euerie ten reasons that I bring against him you haue not touched one The tenth Chapter That notwithstanding all which Fulke hath saide against D. Allens articles in his first Book being of that matter or also in his other of Purgatorie euerie one of my 51. demandes therfore also euery one of my motiues likewise euerie one of those articles standeth stil in his force Euery one I say and much more all of them to make any man to be a Catholike and not a Protestant To Bristowes motiues and demands I haue answered directly purposely in a peculiar treatise that although he dare not ioyne with me in aunswering of Allen directly yet he shal be driuen to defend his owne bragges absolutely or else forsake his challenge shamefully The demonstration that he boasteth of in this Chapter is for the most part nothing else but a quoating of such places where in his replye hee supposeth to haue confuted mine answeres to Allens articles vnto which reply seeing I haue orderly reioyned in euerie point I will not stand to repeate where I haue confirmed euery answer seing this chapter of Bristow may be a sufficient register to al such Chapters partes of Chapters where the same may be fouÌ„d And for such points of his motiues and demaunds whervnto he complaineth that in mine answere to Allens articles I haue saide nothing I must require both him and his readers to haue recourse to my Booke specially written against his saide motiues and demaundes For in aunswering Allen I could not prophecie what argumentes Bristowe would bring in those bookes set forth by him so many yeres after mine answere to Allen was penned But where he hath any argument or authoritie not directly answered before I wil here endeuour to satisfie the same in such plain order as I haue obserued in al the rest of the booke hitherto Omitting therefore the two first demandes of Collatio Carthaginensis and building of the Church in the third of Going out he saith that Against our imagined Church in the wildeâ—nesse we are expresly warned Math. 24 Beholde Christ is in the wildernesse doe not goe out This aunswere as senselesse as it is is borrowed of Stapleton in his demonstration of doctrinall principles which I haue confuted in a breefe aunswere shewing that although we seeke not Christ either in the wildernesse or in the secrete places no not in the Popish pixe but in heauen only yet we are to seeke his pilgrime Churche in what corner of the earth soeuer she be and seeing the holy Ghost hath expresly aâ—sirmed that she should be hidden in the wildernesse from the crueltie of the bloudy Dragon what impudent ignorance or malicious blindnesse is it in Stapleton and Bristowe to say we are warned by Christ neuer to seeke
with his censure was countermanded by many Bishops 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 They did countermaund him or gaue him contrarie commaundement to set his minde on things pertaining to peace and vnitie and loue of his neighbour Irenaeus in his Epistle to Victor shewing that Polycarpus could not be persuaded by Anicetus Bishop of Rome in some small things wherein they differed declared that it was not then of Polycarpus or him selfe otherwise thought but that the Bishop of Rome might erre The other example I brought was of Stephanus Bishop of Rome misliked by Dionysius Euseb. lib. 7. cap. 2. 3. 4. 5 c. sharply reproued by Cyprian accusing him of presumption and contumacie Epist. ad Pomp. because he threatened excommunication to Hilenus and Firmilianus and almost all the Churches of Asia thinking that such as were baptized by heretikes should be baptized againe Also Cyprian in his Epist. ad Quirinum saying that Peter himselfe was not so arrogant nor so presumptuous that he would say he held the primacie and that other men should obey him as his inferiors Bristowe saith none of these denied the primacie of Peter I say they al denied the primacie of autoritie although Cyprian in the same place saith For neither Peter whom our lord chose first which argueth no primacie but of order vpō whom he builded his Church when Paule did afterward dissent from him about circumcision did boast him self or take vpon him any thing insolently or arrogantly that he should say he held the primacie and that he ought rather to be obeyed of newe scholers and aftercommers Here you see it had bene in Cyprians iudgement a point of insolencie and arrogancie in Peter if he had challenged the primacie of authoritie and certaintie of trueth against al men But Bristowe saith when there was no remedie but they must yeeld or be Schismatikes because Stephanus would no longer tolerate them they did like Catholike men for all their Councels conforme their newe practise to the old custome and quoteth August de bapt cont Donat. lib. 5. cap. 23. 25. where there is no such matter also he referreth vs to his fift Demaund where he citeth Euseb. lib. 7. cap. 2. 3. 4. 5. but neither is it there testified Only cap. 6. Dionysius chaungeth his iudgement being admonished in a vision and that he had learned that not nowe onely but of olde time both in Aphrica and other places the trueth was receiued c. but of any constraint for feare of being Schismatikes if they dissented from the bishop of Rome there is no word The place of Hierome ad Euagrium which I cited Pur. 374. defending a custome of the whole Church against a custome of the Church of Rome Bristowe saith doth not proue a Church a rule of trueth and Christianitie without the bishop and Church of Rome because Hierome saith as also there I cite Nec altera c. we must not thinke that there is one Church of the citie of Rome and an other of all the world c. By which wordes he sheweth that the Church of Rome if she will be a member of the Catholike Church must conforme her selfe to the Church of all the world and not the Church of all the world conforme her selfe to the Church of Rome Where I say we beleeue the Catholike Church hath no chiefe gouernour on earth but Christ vnto whome al power is giuen in heauen and earth Bristowe obiecteth suppose that one Christian King or Emperour should reigne sometime as farre as the Church reacheth To this impossible supposition I aunswere that one King should haue no more authoritie than euerie King hath nowe But Bristowe obiecteth that Kings and Queenes be no more named among S. Paules officers c. Ephes. 4. 1. Cor. 12. and therefore as a Puritane belike I would pull them downe In the motiue of Apes he discharged me from being a Puritane by his censure but now he burdeneth me to be a Puritane so farre that I should also be a traitour as he and all his fellowes are To his wise obiection I aunswere that as Kings and Queenes are not named among Saint Paules officers so they are no Ecclesiasticall but ciuill Magistrates and the Church may be without them as it was many hundreth yeares Yet when Kings and Queenes are Christians they haue chiefe authoritie ouer persons and in causes Ecclesiasticall as farre as the godlie Kings of Israel and Iuda had Dauid Solomon Iehosophat Ezechias Iosias c. But Christ professing that all power is giuen him Matthew 28. signifieth that with good authoritie he might commit what authoritie he would and therefore biddeth all his Apostles goe teach and baptize◠and to one of them singularly feede my lambes and my sheepe No maruel though my ignorance in the scriptures be often reproued when such learned conclusions come from Bristowe Christ saide to one feede my lambes and sheepe therefore he saide it singularly and he hath vniuersall charge and all his successors to But for the Popes supremacie the Apostle saith expresly 1. Cor. 12. the heade vnder Christ can not say to the feete you are not necessarie to me But who taught you to foyst in your owne glosse vnder Christ when the Apostle speaketh of the members of a naturall bodie wherevnto euerie seueral cōgregation and the whole church also is like If you seeke the head of euery seuerall congregation you must looke to the chiefe gouernours thereof but if you seeke the head of the whole Church the scripture teacheth but one which is Christ for one head vnder another in one whole body is monstrous But you thinke perhaps Christ as he is head of his Church may say to the feete he hath no neede of them and therefore it must be vnderstoode of an head vnder Christ but then you must remember that although Christ be most perfect in him selfe yet as he vouchsafeth to take vpon him this office to be head of the Church he is not perfect without al his members which is the singular comfort of Gods children Ephe. 1. ver last But Saint Paule Ephe. 4. as Bristowe saith vnder the name of the Apostles includeth the successors of the Apostle S. Peter whose see for that cause is called the Apostolike see in singular maner and their decrees and actes esteemed of Apostolike authoritie in al antiquitie This cause is a shameles and senseles lie for no antiquitie for 600. yeares after Christ so esteemed the see or the decrees therof Again what reason is it that Peters successors should be included more thē the successors of the other Apostles seeing this souereigntie of Peter is not grounded vpon his Apostleship but vpon his Bishoplike office as Sander maintaineth As for the principalitie of Apostleship principalitie of the Apostles chaire which he quoteth out of August de bapt Cont. Don. li. 2. ca. 1. epi. 162. haue often bene shewed to be vnsufficient to make euery one of Peters successors equal with Peter in
teaching and writing against it The 10 The true catholike Church hath alwaies resisted all false opinions contrarie to the word of God as her dewty was and fought against them and obteined the victorie and triumphed ouer them Ar. 11. Contra In those antient times they of the true Church did not alwaies weigh what was most agreeable to the word of God but if heretikes had any thing that seemed to haue a shew of pietie or charitie they would drawe it into vse So they tooke into the Church of Christ many abuses and corruptions vntill at the length An. 607. the religion of the papists preuailed And since that time that diuelish heresie hath alwaies increased in error vntill the yeare 1414. Pur. 419. Ar. 35. 36. The former proposition is directly spoken and meant by me of heresies against the truth and other articles of faith That which is mine in the latter patchery and falsification is spoken of small errors and idle ceremonies The 11 That blasphemous heresie of purgatorie which is most blasphemous against Christ against the blood of Christ against his merites and satisfaction for our sinnes and against Gods vnspeakable mercies and occasion of most licentious wickednes in all them that beleeue it nothing conuenient for the disciples and members of Christ. No suffrages were made for the dead by the Apostles or their lawfull successors To the reader Pur. 26. 166 184. 177. 269. 362. 363. 419. 186. Contrà here cap. 3. he confesseth that the fathers held it and yet notwithstanding that they were members of the true Church cap. 2. and held the foundation of Iesus Christ cap. 5. all the substance of true doctrine And also that they did inuocate Saintes denying in other places that such be true Christians The like of fasting Pur. â—93 405. I neuer confessed those godly fathers to hold purgatorie in such blasphemous sense as the papistes doe nor yet prayer for the dead or inuocation of Saintes By fasting I knowe not what he meaneth for in the page whereto he sendeth me 141. is no such matter spoken of nor fasting once named 12 The opinion of Purgatorie and satisfaction of sinnes after this life is the verie doctrine of licentiousnesse to maintaine wicked men in their presumptuousnesse For what hast will they make to amendment and newenesse of life when they haue hope of release after their death Pur. 51. 26. 166. 177. 184. Contra As Saint Augustine saith it is but for small faultes or as M. Allen saith for great faultes that by penance are made small And is God such a mercifull father to punishe small faultes so extremely in his children whom he pardoneth of all their great and heinous sinnes Pur. 448. The latter part of this preteÌ„sed coÌ„tradictoÌ„ is not mine but Allens assertion which I rehearse to shew the absurditie of his expositioÌ„ of the happy rest promised Apo. 13. 13 How long soeuer the true Church were hidden whether iâ— were a 1000. years or 2000. yeares this is certaine that out of this Church none could be saued Ar. 73. Contra here cap. 5. he counteth it ynough if the faith of their saluation were in the onely foundation Iesus Christ and that in such a sense as agreeth to men indeed out of the Church The whole faith of their saluation is in the onely foundation Iesus Christ in such such sense as I speake cannot be out of the Church 14 They which hold the foundation that is Christ to wit the Article of Iustification by the onely mercy of God and of the onely sonne of God are doubtlesse members of the true Church of Christ. Ar. 61. â—4 Pur. 2â—8 Contra here cap. 10. where he saith that the Anabaptists are abhominable heretikes and that they are not ProtestaÌ„ts who yet do hold that article iâ—mp as the ProtestaÌ„ts do It is a loudly and neuer saide of me that the Anabaptists do hold that article iump as the protestants 15 A generall departing from the faith was foreshewed and it was fulfilled An. 607. Contra The Church was neuer lost neither when the departing was generall but hidden in the wildernesse that is from the eyes of the world She is to this day preserued and shal be to the worlds end Christ hath neuer wanted his Spouse in earth he hath euer beene a head without a body Ar. 36. 38. Ar. 71. 78. 79. 80. The generall departing from the faith was not of all persons but of most in all nations and therefore the Church neuer failed 16 The primitiue Church of the Apostles hath continued vnto this day by succession not of persons and places but of the doctrine faith and trueth These verte wordes conteine a manifest contradiction For how can a Church or doctrine faith and trueth continue but in persons and places in so much that he saith also We doubt not but God hath alway stirred vp some faithfull teachers that haue instructed his Church in the necessarie pointes of Christian Doctrine Ar. 2. 96. 26. 27. These wordes conteine no contradiction For the Church may continewe in persons and places although not by continual succession of persons in the same places Bristow forgetteth his rules of contradiction opposing coÌ„tinuance by succession of persons and places to continuance in persons and places 17 The true Church of Christ hath alwayes stoode stedfast inseparable from Christ her head though the blinde world when they see her will not acknowledge her to be his Spouse but persecute her as if she were an adultresse Contra in the same place The true Church vnder the Emperours Constantinus Constans and Valens was greatly infected with the heresie of Arius And in another place The visible Church may become an adultresse and be diuorsed from Christ. And so is that faithfull Church of Rome become an harlâ—â— This contradiction is made vp with a falsification of my wordes The true Church vnder the Emperours Constantius c. For I say not the true Church but speake generally of the Church which suffered persecution vntill CoÌ„stantine which was the visible Church vnder which name many heretikes were persecuted Visible Church is not alwaies the true Church The 18 The true Church consisting of Gods elect and the liuely members of the body of Christ shall neuer commit such adulterie c. But the visible Church may separate her selfe from Christ. As though there were an other Church besides the visible Church and so two churches Contra Wheresoeuer the Catholike Church be in partes it is one body of Christ. There are not two Churches but one The catholike Church is alwaies inuisible the militant Church on earth which is a part thereof is to the world sometime visible and sometimes not seene of the world The 19 Anno. 607. the Church fled into the wildernes that is out of the sight and knowledg of the world there to remaine a long season where all this while God hath preserued her vntill such time as he thought good now in our dayes to bring her
at the Emperors charges for the encrease of Christian faith among them Bristowe asketh me what Emperor or what faith but Catholike or Popish That which I saide of the Syrian Testament was to shewe that the Churches in Chaldea haue preserued the scriptures which yet are not subiect to the Church of Rome with the Emperors profession I delt not but his purpose I suppose was to encrease Christian faith and I am persuaded the reading of the scriptures in the mother tongue will not encrease Popish faith seeing Papists are so vnwilling that the people should read the worde of God in the natiue language Fourthly that I say the fathers alledging the succession of Bishops against heretikes specially named the Church of Rome because those heretikes for the most part had ben somtimes of the Church of Rome as Valentinus Marciō Nouatus Against this Bristowe telleth me that Allen speaketh also of the Arrians Donatists and al heretikes But I spake of those fathers that alledged the succession of Bishops namely Irenaeus Tertullian and Cyprian Irenaeus testifieth of Valentinus Cerdon and Marcion that they were at Rome vnder Hyginus Pius and Anicetus and that Cerdon came often into the Church and made his confession and yet taught his heresie priuily and was excommunicated For Nouatus that he was a Prieste of the Church of Rome Eusebius is cleare Lib. 6. Cap. 42. But Cyprian calleth him Nouatianus whereas Nouatus had beene of Carthage but from thence was also gone to Rome I deny not but the similitude of the names might cause the Greeke writers to be deceiued as Bristowe saith and it may be that the name of Nouatianus in Cyprian is corrupted for Nouatus and the other called Nouatus in steade of Nauatus which name was then in vse But seeing the person of the heretike is certaine it is folly to striue for his name I haue shewed mine authour for Nouatus 〈◊〉 Rome and so for the rest wherefore I haue not bewraied any ignorance therein as Bristowe pretendeth The 17. and last point of mine ignorance is where I shewe wherein the communion of Saintes consisteth In that I say one can not merit for an other no not for him selfe but euery man hath his worthinesse of Christe As though saith Bristowe neither Christ could merite for any other no nor for him selfe because he had his worthinesse of God But I say that Christ because he was God had his worthinesse of him selfe and therefore did merite for vs. And see what secret blasphemie is contained in this comparison of Bristowe Where he would make a similitude of meriting betweene vs which please not God but onely through his mercy with Christe who satisfied the iustice of God But Bristowe chargeth me so to define the cōmunion of Saints that I allow no place for the praiers of the members aliue made for others that are aliue A vile slander when I speake of the grace and giftes of God which as euery one hath receiued of God so of charitie he is bound to imploy the same to the profite of his fellowe members here on earth But if we be bound of charitie to pray one for an other saith Bristowe whie are not these members in heauen as well Because there is not a lawe appointed for them that are in heauen and them that be in earth we knowe praier is commaunded vs we knowe not any praier commaunded them neither are we to trust to any such thing But the Scripture saith that Christes friendes doe reioice in heauen with his penitents in earth It saith so in deede of the Angels and I doubt not of the like affection of the blessed spirites but of their knowledge and if their knowledge were certaine yet it followeth not that they pray for the conuersion of sinners and much lesse that the mutuall offices of loue whereby one member hath compassion with an other can by any meanes touch the state of the deade to receiue any benefite thereby But an other quarrell is where I make the communion of the whole body to be the participation of life from Christ the head If this be all saith Bristow then there is no communion For what communion were it betweene the members of your naturall body if they did onely receiue life from your head and could not vse the saide life to profite one an other c. This man hath great leasure to trifle without any matter Who so shall reade my wordes Pur. 199. which he quoteth shall finde me to say That the communion of the whole body is the participation of life and all other offices of life that euery member and the whole body hath of the head as S. Paule teacheth plainely Ephes 4. If it be any office of a Christian life for one member to assist an other in that it may and as it ought I haue comprehended it but that Bristowe doth wilfully holde my saying and then play with it at his pleasure Yet he chargeth me with belying of Allen that he will haue other workes waies of saluation besides the bloud of Christ because he groundeth all works and waies of saluation in the bloud of Christ. But I reporting his words truly by plain distribution do gather that Allen will haue other workes and waies of saluation beside the bloud of Christ except you will say that is no way nor worke of saluation of it selfe without these waies and works of men If the bloud of Christ of it selfe be one way and worke of saluation and there be other waies and workes though grounded in it then are there more waies and workes of saluation than the onely redemption of Christe which I vnderstand by the bloud of Christ so I haue done Allen no iniurie but he hath offered hainous iniurie to the bloud of Christe and so doe al they which mixed it with any to purchase Gods fauour who is reconciled by none other merite or satisfaction but only by the bloud of the crosse of his Sonne our Lorde Iesus Christe to whome be praise for euer more In the thirtienth chapter or conclusion Bristowe doth only shew that there is in my two bookes stuffe ynough to make an other booke as bigge as this to the discredit of my partie I trust this booke of his as bigge as it is hath wrought no discredite to the cause I maintaine because I haue shewed howe it is stuffed with lies slaunders falsifications and cauillations such stuffe he may haue great store in the diuell his maisters schoole to make a booke tenne times as bigge as this was but for so much as he hath not aunswered any one of mine arguments or refelled any one of mine aunsweres to Allen in any right order leauing the defence of him as he pretendeth to defend the Church I confesse he hath left matter sufficient for any man that will vndertake the confutation of my bookes which this his vnorderly and vnsufficient replie notwithstanding I protest to remaine still in their strength and
and in him as it were againe begonne and renewed And cannot this be done except the body of Christ do really conteine all things by your surmised reuolt for I dare not vnderstand you siguratiuely seeing you abhorre figures in this matter of the supper nor Hyberbolically for that you count no better then a rhetoricall lye Wherefore if these things be really conteined as you say I thinke it small for the worship of Christes banket whose excellencie I take to be so great that it conteineth not these grosse meates of the body but an heauenly refreshing of the soule And that will the olde fathers whome you cite for your cookery plainly testifie with me First Cyprian de Coen Dom. Vident haec sacramenta c. The poore in spirite see these sacraments and contenting themselues with this one dish they despise all the delicats of this world and possessing Christ they disdaine to possesse any stuffe of this worlde Beholde Cyprian sayeth nor that this dish conteineth al foules fishes sauces spices c. but that al these are despised of them that are partakers of this dish Againe speaking of the wicked Et a secretis diuinis omnium intra se continentibus summam diffugiunt recedunt c. They fly and depart from the diuine secrets which conteine within them selues the briefe or summe of all mysteries He saith not they containe meates and drinkes syropes and confections but the summe of al mysteries or heauenly diuine treasures But saith Sander when saint Cyprian saith intra se within them he meaneth within the compasse or formes of breade and wine for these onely are the thinges that we can poynt vnto within or without Belike he will teach vs newe Grammar and newe Latine also For in our old Latine and Grammar we learned that sui and suus were reciproca but Sander will teach vs that se signifieth the compasse or formes of breade and wine Or if the worde se signifie themselues as it was wont to doe Sander wil teach vs that the compasse or formes of bread and wine are the diuine secrets themselues For Cyprian saith that the diuine secrets within themselues containe the summe of al mysteries But marke his reason and you wil thinke that an Oxe hath lowed it out rather then a man spoken it The compasse or formes of bread are the onely things that we can poynt vnto within or without for other meat drinke we see not quoth he He will haue nothing but that he can point vnto with his hand and see with his bodily eye Whereas diuine secretes whereof Cyprian speaketh can neither be seene with the eye nor poynted at with the finger but onely be vnderstoode by faith in them to whom God hath reueiled them His next witnesse is Chrysostome in 1. Cor. Hom. 24 Quando corpus Christi c. When the body of Christ is set before thee say with thy selfe For this bodies sake I am no more earth and ashes For this I hope to receiue heauen and the good thinges which are in heauen immortall life the seate of Angels the companie of Christ. The very table is the strength of our soule the bonde of trust the foundation our hope saluation life If wee goe hence pure with this sacrifice with most great confidence we shall ascende to the holy porch or entrie as it were compassed rounde about with golden garments But what rehearse I thinges to come whiles we are in this life this mysterie causeth that the earth is heauen to vs. Whatsoeuer Chrysostome saith here we acknowledge to be true as he did meane it but nothing he saith for Master Sanders reuolution and as little for the carnall manner of presence or eating of Christes body For euen as we are no more earth and asshes as earth is made heauen which is after a spiritual manner by fayth and yet truly and vndoubtedlye so is the body of Christ present eaten at the table According to which meaning he saith in the same homily QuemadmoduÌ„ enim corpus illud vnituÌ„ est Christo ita nos per hunc panem vnione coniungimur For euen as that body is vaited to Christ so we also by this bread are joyned in an vnion Note heere that body this bread to be diuerse thinges in naturall substance againe our coniunction to be by the bread mystically for naturally and substantially wee are not ioyned one to another but in an heauenly kinde of vnion we are made one bodye of Christ and members one of another And this is not an emptye dish of faith as Sander calleth it but a full mysterie of saluation And although faith shall cease when we haue the full fruition of Gods promises in heauen yet doth Sander both absurdly and vnfaithfully gather therof an opposition of faith and trueth wheras faith hath thereof the name in Hebrue because it is grounded vpon truth But what meaneth he by truth that which he preferreth aboue the receiuing by faith Namely the carnall manner of receiuing Christes body which hee holdeth the wicked may doe to their damnation A worthy truth in respect of which saith is counted litle worth as an empty dish which yet by their owne doctrine must make their trueth effectuall to saluation But see I pray you howe cunningly he reasoneth of the finall cause Christ tooke flesh saith he that our bodies might haue a banket made to them as the soules of the faithfull neuer lacked God whom they might feede on by faith and spirit By which reason the godly of the old testament before Christes incarnation were but halfe nourished namely in soules onely and not in bodyes if Christes flesh bee not a meat otherwise then receiued into the body after the Popishe meaning Yet he supposeth that Cyrillus fauoureth this argument In Ioan. lib. 4. Cap. 14. Oporiuiâ— enim certâ— vt non solùm anima per spiritum sanctum in beatam vitam ascenderet verâ—netiam vt rude atque terrestre hoc corpus cognato sibi gustâ— tactu cibo ad immortalitatem reduceretur For it behoued truely that not onely the soule shoulde ascend by the holie Ghost into the blessed life but also that this rude and earthly bodic shoulde be brought to immortalitie by tasting touching and by meate which were of alliance with vs. Cyrill meaneth of the outwarde element by which our faith being instructed as our bodies are fedde so we are taught that the whole man is nourished to immortalitie Therefore he saith immediatly after in the same place Nâ—â— putet ex tarditate mentis suae Iudaeus inaudita nobis excogitata esse mysteria videbit enim si attentiùs quaerit hoc ipsum à Mosâ— temporibus per figuram semper factitatum suisse Quid enim maiores corum ab ira Aegyptiorum liberauit quando mors in primogenita Aegyptiorum saeâ—iebat nónne palà m est quia diuina institutione perdocti agni carnes manducauerunt postes ac superliminaria sanguine perunxerunt
haue no spirite in Sanders corporall iudgement when wee knowe not the wordes of Christ to be spirit and life as the which make all that they saide in the consecration of his holy mysteries but we acknowledge his wordes to be spirite life because he neuer giueth his flesh but with effect of his quickening spirite And that is a grosse spirite and a deadly life which imagineth all that to be made in the mysteries which the words soundeth for then the cuppe should be made bloud and the newe testament in his bloud What is They are spirite and life sayth Augustine in Ioan. T. 27. Spiritualiter intelligenda sunt they are to be vnderstood spiritually therfore not according to the sounde of wordes but according to the minde of the speaker It is colde deuotion saith Sander that hearing the body of Christ by himselfe affirmed to be present can eate without adoring and denye godly honour to it We eate not without adoring Master Sander although wee adore not that which we eate bodily but that which wee eate spiritually giuing this diuine honour vnto him that wee put our whole trust confidence in his redemption wherof this externall and visible sacrament is a pledge and assurance CAP. XXIII The reall presence of Christes body is proued by the confession of the Apologie The Apologie confesseth that Christ is giuen vs in the mysteries that wee may certeinly knowe we be flesh of his flesh and bone of his bones and that Christ continueth in vs and we in him If Christ be giuen vs sayeth Sander in these mysteries he is present in them for a gift is not made of a thing absent Yes Master Sander if the Prince at Westminster giue a manor lying in Yorkeshire by letters patents the Patentee which receiueth his Patent at Westminster hath the manor truely giuen vnto him which is in Yorkeshire Therefore a gift by sufficient assurance may be of a thing absent in nature thereof and so is Christes body giuen vs in the mysteries which are the seale of Gods promise truely giuing Christes body vnto vs which according to the naturall and corporal manner of presence is in heauen and not on the earth Col. 3. But Sander woulde vnderstande howe wee knowe that wee are flesh of his flesh and bone of his bones except it be by the reall corporall presence of Christ in the mysteries Yes forsooth wee knowe it by the worde of God which so testifieth Eph. 5. and by the spirite of Christ which dwelleth in vs Rom. 8. and last of all we haue assurance therof by the holy sacrament as by a seale confirmation and pledge of the perfourmance of Gods promises vnto vs. But a coniunction betwixt the flesh of Christ the flesh of men cannot be made saith he by faith spirite and vnderstanding As man and wife cannot become one flesh by consent of mariage except in deede they come bodily togither Yes sir wee holde that Christ is actually ioyned to the nature of man by his incarnation but this coniunction profiteth not all men but only them to whome he is ioyned by spirite faith vnderstanding and so the incarnation of Christ made all the fathers of the olde testament flesh of his flesh and bone of his bone For otherwise it is the spirite that quickeneth the flesh prositeth nothing What auaileth it the reprobate that God is become man ioyned in the same substance of fleshe bloud and bones and humane soule Nothing because they lacke the spirite of Christ and faith Last of all where he saith that man wise cannot become one flesh without carnal copulation it is a beastly opinion For he that sayde they shall bee two in one flesh spake of the holy coniunction of two persons in mariage according to Gods institution before carnall copulation by which the acte of generation is sanctified and the bed made to bee vndefiled not restraining the coniunction to the coupling of their bodies For the Scripture called Ioseph and Marie husband and wife although there were no comming together of their bodies And howe can the Papistes affirme Matrimonie to be a sacrament when the coniunction in one flesh which is the effect thereof cannot be wrought by the worde of God but is left in the choise of the man and the woman Last of all where Sander saith there is no other meanes taught in the Gospell howe Christ may be present in flesh or his flesh ioyned to our flesh but by meanes of transubstantiation it will fall out that seeing transubstantiation is not taught in the Gospell neither was thought vpon sixe hundred yeares in the Church but the contrarie manifestly proued that Christ is not present in flesh at all nor his flesh shoulde be ioyned to our flesh by any meanes Such trueth is in his assertions CAP. XXIIII The contrarietie of the Apologie is shewed and that the lifting vp of our heartes to heauen is no good cause why we should lift the bodie of Christ from the altar First he chargeth vs with great forgetfulnesse Afterwarde to make a shewe of contrarietie he falsifieth most impudently the wordes of the Apologie which he cited himselfe in the Chapter last before Christ giueth him selfe present in these mysteries c. therefore he is not here but in heauen feeding vs from thence This worde Present hee nowe addeth which because he missed before he would seeme to proue it by reason Shall I saye who euer had to doe with such a forgetfull man or rather with so shamelesse an heretike Although the Apologie neuer denyeth simply the presence of Christ in the mysteries but alwayes that manner of presence which the papists affirme and is now in controuersie betweene vs. That the exhortation to lift vp mens heartes is no good argument to proue that Christ is onely in heauen he vseth much foolish babling as though that saying onely were brought for an argument or that saying of it selfe for a sufficient argument or that saying for any argument But where the Scripture sayth that Christ after his ascension concerning his humanitie hath left the worlde Ioan. 16. which the Apostles vnderstood to be spoken plainly and without all parable and that he sitteth in heauen and not on earth Col. 3. the Apologie sayth this is the cause why the people are exhorted to lift vp their heartes and not as Sander peruerteth it because the people are exhorted to lift vp their heartes therefore Christ is not present in his mysteries But lifting vp of heartes with the olde fathers was to acknowledge the mysteries vpon the table to beleeue the sacrifice of the Masse and not to denye the reall presence of Christ saith Sander Doe you not looke for some sound argument to proue this geare especially of him which immediatly before charged the author of the Apologie to vse an argument more like a tinker than a diuine you shall heare his argument of authority of Chrysostom Hom. de Eucharistia Diddest
faith which is not of externall things but of things inuisible The tenth we truely taking them beleeue them to be the tokens of our redemption or as some read resurrection for bread wine be not tokens of our redemption Did bread and wine redeeme vs or did they rise from death quoth Sander No verily But the Councell saith for all that that these things which are set on the table namely bread and the cupp are beleeued of vs to be the mysticall tokens of our redemption which the wordes following do declare For this cause wee take not much but litle that we might knowe we take not to fill vs but for holinesse What can that be whereof not much but a litle is taken but the breade and wine for the body bloud of Christ is not taken in quantitie more or lesse Secondly what neede wee by taking litle be admonished that it is not to fill vs if wee did thinke there were no breade nor wine there which could fill vs Finally why take we a little for holines if we take that which is nothing but all holines it selfe and of his owne nature whether we take little or much You see therefore the Councell ment not to make Christes body a mysticall token of it selfe which is a monstrous saying and as monstrous an opinion but the bread and wine in the sacrament to be mysticall and diuine tokens of our redemption wrought in the body and bloudshedding of our sauiour Christ. Wherefore the Apologie without fraude or purpose of deceiuing hath left out no wordes of the Councell that make against it but whatsoeuer it hath omitted it hath left of that aduantage it might iustly haue taken if it had throughly and at large discussed them CAP. XXVII That the Catholikes haue the table of Eagles and the Sacramentaries haue the table of Iayes The author of the Apologie is charged with impudencie for alleaging the place of Chrysostome in 1. Cor. Hom. 24. speaking of flying high with Eagles vnto the bodie of Christ as though the bodie of Christ were not vpon the altar but we onely should by faith ascend into heauen whereas Chrysostome speaketh of going into heauen by good life also and not by faith onely Afterward he rehearseth his words but without the heade or former part of them which sheweth that Chrysostome teacheth vs howe we should come vnto Christe and where wee shoulde finde him Likewise he translateth corruptly to drawe them to his imagined flying by good life Ad hoc enim inducit nos sacrificium formidandum admirabile quod inbet nobis ut cum concordia charitate maxima ad se accedamus aquilae in hat vita facti ad ipsum coelum euolemus vel potius supra coelum Vbi enim cadauer inquit illie aquilae All this hath Sander left out Cadauer domiri corpus propter mortem nisi enim ille cecidisset nos non resurrexissemus Aquilas autem appellat ut ostendat ad alta eum oportere contendere qui ad hoc corpus accedit nihil cum terra debere ei esse commune neque ad inferiora trahi repere sed ad superiora semper volare in solem iust 〈…〉 tae iniuâ—ri mentisque oculum acutissimum habere Aquilarum enim non graculorum haec mensa est For vnto this doeth the dreadful and wonderfull sacrifice bring vs which commandeth vs that with concord and greatest charitie we come to it and being made Egles in this life we flie vp vnto heauen it selfe or rather aboue heauen For where the carcase is saith he there also be the Egles The Lordes body is the carcase through his death for except he had fallen we had not risen againe And he nameth eagles to shewe that he must get vp on high which commeth to this body and that he ought to haue nothing to doe with the earth nor to be drawne downe and creepe to the lowe places but alwayes to flie vp vnto the high places and to beholde the sonne of righteousnes and to haue the eie of the minde most cleare For this is the table of Egles not of Iayes Iudge now whether Chrysostome meane to tell vs that the bodye of Christe is vppon the altar or in heauen For wee must bee made Egles not to hoouer vppon the table but to flie vp into heauen or rather aboue heauen Wherefore must wee flie into heauen or aboue heauen because Christ is there Wherefore must hee that commeth to this bodie contende vnto the highest place and to haue nothing to doe with the earth or lower places if the bodie of Christ lyeth belowe vppon the table But wee must haue a moste cleare eye of the minde sayeth Sander to see the bodie of Christ vnder the formes of bread and wine as an Egle flying on high will fee a fish vnder the water and catch it as Augustine writeth But Chrysostome teacheth vs not to flye vpon high to looke downe from on high and see the bodie of Christ vnder the water or clowdes of accidentes but alwayes to flye vp on high and to beholde the sonne of righteousnesse which is in heauen and not belowe on earth for if the bodie were come downe so lowe as the table what neede wee flye from it to beholde it from so great a distance And whereas hee sayeth that wee are Iayes because wee see weakely and content our selues with a base banket of breade and wine I woulde hee knewe wee haue a moste cleare eye of the minde which through that base banket of breade and wine can beholde and see the verie bodye and bloud of Christe sitting aboue all heauens and flye so high with the winges of faith that wee not onely see it but also that wee are thereby fedde and nourished into eternall life That wee thinke good workes to bring small ayde to life euerlasting it is because wee flye like Egles to an higher cause the onely mercy of GOD in Iesus Christ and Papistes bee like Iayes flying belowe which thinke the vnperfect works of earthly and sinfull men can helpe to bring them to perfecte happinesse in heauen But saith Sander hee speaketh of the table whiche standeth in the Church before vs hee speaketh not nowe of heauen which is aboue the sunne This saith Sander without all proofe and against all reason For Chrysostome saith it is the table of Egles therefore it is an higher table then the table in the Church where vnto we must flie vpwarde alwayes euen into heauen where that bodie which once was deade is nowe sitting in glorie yea aboue all visible heauens and therefore aboue the sunne So that the table in Chrysostome signifieth metonymically the spirituall meat and drinke which the faithfull receiue by faith onelie whereof the table on earth with that which is on it is onely a Sacrament pledge assuraÌ„ce But Chrysostome in the same homily saith If no man will rashly handle an other mans garmente howe dare wee
he meaneth not a litle of the bodie of Christ nor the bodie of Christ in a litle quantitie but a litle of the consecrated bread and wine which by diuine and spirituall operation is of infinite vertue to conuert vs into an heauenly and spirituall nature aunswerable to our regeneration which is testified vnto vs in baptisme But Sander replyeth that if the Sacrament were wheaten bread it could not be true that a litle therof should drawe the whole man vnto it I answere if it were nothing but wheaten bread it could do no such thing but Cyril calleth it by the name of that which it is more principally as it is a Sacrament that is a blessing which draweth the whole man to it and filleth him with grace Eâ— hoâ— modo in nobis Christus manet nos in Christo and by this meane doeth Christ dwell in vs and wee in him To the terme of tarying naturally vsed by Hilarie I haue answered before Theophylact I force not of as beeing a late writter although he say nothing in effect more thaÌ„ Chrysostom and Cyrill But Sander still vrgeth what ioyning as of waxe leauen what mingling can bee made of things so far distant as heauen earth If you say by faith spirite either you giue a cause of ioyning saith Sander which may stande with the cause alleaged by Christ or else you correct his cause and put a better I answere we neither ad to nor correct the cause of ioyning alledged by Christ but expresse the verie same which he doth The wordes which I speake are spirite life but there be some among you that beleeue not Nay sayth Sander our tarying in Christ is assigned to eating and not onely to beleeuing But we replie that this eating is not corporall eating but eating by faith spirite which may be without eating the Sacrament and yet eating the fleshe of Christ not leauing the eating thereof as Sander saith and staying vppon feeding by faith alone which is an absurde saying for by faith wee feede vpon Christ through the vertue of his holy spirite CAP. XVII We are made one with Christ by naturall participation of his flesh as he being one nature with his father hath assumpted our nature into his owne person Sander alwaies reasoneth so as he maketh eating by faith and spirite to exclude the fleshe of Christ and the vertue thereof as in this chapter he saith Hee that eateth Christs fleshe receiueth life of him not by the meanes of faith spirite onely but also by naturall participation of his flesh as Christ liueth for the father so he that eateth Christ shall liue for him but Christ liueth not for his father in faith nor by meane of spirite alone as we take spirite for deuotion or spirituall giftes and qualities but by his whole substance present in him But wheÌ„ wee say that wee eate Christ by faith spirit we meane not by spirite deuotion or spirituall gifts but the working of the holy spirite as the principall efficient cause and faith as the instrumentall cause by which wee eate Christ present in whole substance The controuersie is not whether wee must bee ioyned to Christ by eating of his flesh and drinking of his bloud for that wee beleue without al controuersie that from the beginning of the world to the end none can be ioyned to Christ otherwise then by eating his flesh drinking his bloud but whether Christes flesh can be eaten and drunken without eating bodily the Sacrament that is the question And therfore Sander maketh a large needlesse discourse in this Chapter to shew how Christ liueth for his father and how we must liue for him that is by participation of his flesh and bloud which is that naturall participation whereof Hilary speaketh against the Arrians which saied we are ioyned to him onely in vnity of will which is not so for he by his incarnation is naturally ioyned to vs and we by participation of his flesh are naturally ioyned to him so that wee are flesh of his flesh and bone of his bone of which coniunction the Sacrament is an heauenly pledge and assurance But now commeth Sander and saith that in foure pointes the Sacramentaries be against S. Hilary first bâ—couse they prâ—suppose Christes flesh not to be eaten of vs and consequently not to be in vs in his owne nature and substance This is a false supposell for we affirme Christes flesh to be eaten of al the elect of God and whole Christ to be in them Secondly they are against the Godhead of Christ if we doe not liue by eating of Christs flesh as he by the father This is the 2. slanderous cauell answered before Thirdly they are against the life of our bodyes because they say that in the Sacrament we eate nothing into our bodies but bread and wine which are not able to giue life to our bodies whereby they may liue for euer This is a peeuish Sophistry we eate into our bodies and we eate in the Sacrament bodilye nothing but bread and wine therefore we eat not at all Yes we eat the flesh of Christ both in the Sacrament and without it with our soules which is of force to giue life both to bodies and soules Fourthly they are against the foode of our bodies which is the flesh of Christ. No forsooth wee acknowledge that flesh of Christ to be foode to feede the whole man body and soule vnto eternall life but yet so to feede the body as it is not receiued corporally nor feedeth corporally but after a spirituall and diuine manner And heere he maketh the Zwinglians to affirme that the sanctified bread in the supper is the foode of our bodies vnto eternall life as water in baptisme is the instrument and meane as wel to bodies soules of euerlasting life Which is vtterly false for they affirme neither the bread to be food nor the water to be regeneration otherwise then as holy signes seales pledges assurances of spirituall feeding and regeneration But Sander by scripture will destroy this comparison affirming that God in deede may vse what meanes he will to saue vs but by his word he hath testified his wil that baptisme hath his promise of saluatioÌ„ annexed to it but no promise is made to material bread and wine nor to him that eateth and drinketh them I answere neither is any promise made to the water in baptisme but to him that receiueth it worthily and to him that eateth and drinketh materiall bread and wine in the Sacrament the like promise is made of remission of sinnes and of eternall life not in respect of the bread wine but in respect of him that feedeth our faith by that Sacrament and by faith and working of his holye spirite feedeth vs with his flesh and bloud euen when that Sacrament is not receiued But Cyril saith in Ioan lib. 10 Cap. 13. Non poterat c. This corruptible nature of the body could not
a signifying mysterie So that the sense is it is called the bodie of Christe that is to saye it signifieth it The author of this glosse durst not haue written thus if it had not beene an opinion generally receiued that the wordes of Christ were not proper but figuratiue Thirdely it is against the glorie of GOD that the bodie of Christ shoulde be so made present as it should enter not onely into the mouth of wicked persons as a deade bodie working no life but also into the bellyes of brute beastes which is euen horrible to name Fourthly it is not agreeable to the loue of Christ toward vs in his second comming that his bodie by such a presence shoulde bee thought to haue lost all naturall conditions of a substantiall bodie seeing the scripture putteth vs in hope that our vile bodies shall be made confirmable at his comming to his glorious body Philip. 3. Wherefore that heresie of carnall presence is contrarie to our faith of the resurrection of our bodies Fiftly it is against the profite of Christes Church which by his ascension is drawen vpward into heauen from the earth but by this imagined presence is mooued to looke downe vnto Christ vpon the earth Col. 3. Therfore in all these respects the exposition of the wordes must be figuratiue Another reason Sander hath that seeing all figures were inuented either for lacke of words or for pleasantnesse of speaking and Christ neither lacked wordes nor can be prooued to haue spoken figuratiuely onely for his pleasure therefore he spake not figuratiuely If there be no more causes of figuratiue speach then these two noted by Sander then Christ neuer vsed any figuratiue speaches for hee neuer wanted wordes to haue spoken properly that other men could speake properly neither can he be prooued to haue spoken figuratiuely only for his pleasure and least of all he affected the praise of Eloquence But if it be out of question Sander also coÌ„fesseth that in other places Christ spake figuratiuely then is it out of question that this argument of Sander is not worth the paring of his nayles For there are other causes of figuratiue speaches then these two by him alledged and especially the profite of the hearers who are more moued and better vnderstande often times by figuratiue then by proper speaches And for this cause yâ— holy ghost speaking of Sacraments doth vsually call theÌ„ figuratiuely by the names of that they signifie seale vnto vs as the Lamb is called the Passeouer baptisme regeneration the bread his bodie the cuppe the newe Testament The profite that wee take by these kinde of speaches is great for they admonishâ—s to be as sure of the things as we are of the signes when the signes beare the name of the things signified and promised by them Of Saint Augustines rule of figuratiue speaches Sander that loueth no repetitions hath written a whole Chapter before lib. 3. Cap. 14. and therefore I will say no more of it here onely I note that by quoting the place hee abuseth Augustines rule against his owne example which he bringeth of eating and drinking the body and bloud of Christ to proue that Christes wordes are not figuratiue when Augustine saith expresly those wordes are figuratiue which Christe spake of eating and drinking his flesh and bloud The rocke was Christ he sayeth must needes be a figuratiue speach because it can not be proper And for the same cause say we These wordes This is my body are figuratiue for that they can not be proper But Sander replieth that if he had saide this breade is my body it might haue beene so thought for breade cannot bee his body no more then the rocke be Christ. yet S. Paul doubteth not to say this bread of that of which before he had said this is my bodie 1. Cor. 11. And I aske Sander what was that which Christ had in his hand and whereof he said this It coulde not be his bodie before the words of consecration spokeÌ„ as all Catholike papists affirme then it was bread then the word following Is will not suffer the sense to be this shal be my body wherefore in effect it is all one to say hauing bread in his hand This is my body and to say This bread is my body the one is impossible by Sanders confession ergo by necessitie of argument the other CAP. II. That at all other so the wordes of Christes supper ought to bee taken properlie vntill the contrarie doeth euidently appeare By autoritie of Tertullian and Marcellus the Lawyer he laboureth to proue that all words must be taken in their proper signification except the contrarie be manifestly showen Likewise Epiphanius affirmeth that all wordes in the Scripture neede not to be taken figuratiuelie and that to know which is figuratiue and which is not diligent consideration and ancient tradition helpeth much All this I confesse but withall I affirme that these wordes This is my bodie both by diligent consideration and ancient tradition are found to bee figuratiue Neither hath Sander any thing to the contrarie Yes I wis the Pronowne This saith he pointeth not to a thing absent No verilie for it pointeth to the breade that was in his hande Neither the Verbe Is can bee saide of that which presently hath no true being ergo it cannot bee saide of the bodie of Christe which by your owne diuinitie hath no being in the Sacrament before the last syllable of Hoc est corpâ—â— meum bee pronounced then it is necessarie to bee saide of the breade in his hande whiche had a true being And then by your owne rule in the Chapter before these wordes being as much as This breade is my bodie must needes bee figuratiue because they cannot bee proper for breade and Christes bodie bee two seuerall-natures that cannot stande together CAP. III. The proper signification of these wordes This is my bodie and This is my bloude is that the substance of Christs bodie and bloude is contained vnder the visible formes of bread and wine If the speech were proper and not figuratiue yet the substance of breade being shewed and the substance of the cuppe and of that which is in the cuppe being shewed it woulde not followe the bodie and bloude to bee vnder these accidentes of breade and wine but either with the substance of breade and wine or rather that his bodie and bloude were breade and wine For Sanders similitude hath nothing like to this matter this is an Elephant that is the substance of an Elephant is contained vnder this visible forme But let him bring example of any thing which bearing visible forme of one substance is called by the name of another substance Might not Moses haue said truly to the Israelites in the wildernes in the behalfe of God pointing to the Rocke This is Christ or the bodie of Christ as well as Saint Paule saith that Rocke was Christ Therefore looke what woulde be the sense of
of flesh with naked soule and pure minde looke rounde about vpon those thinges that are in heauen These wordes declare plainelye that Chrysostome dreamed not of transubstantiation but spake of a spirituall handling and receiuing of Christ as of a spirituall dipping and making redde the people with his pretious bloud and of feeding on Christ in heauen by faith And so it is more wonderfull that wee in body remaining on the earth doe feede on Christ sitting in heauen not by bringing him downe vnto vs but by lifting vs vp vnto him The places of scripture that Sander quoteth as perteining to the supper although they all pertaine not vnto it yet when he can make any argument out of any of them for his carnall manner of presence I shall easily answere it CAP. XI Why the Sacrament is called breade after consecration If Master Sander had first prooued that the Sacrament is not bread after consecration wee might easily haue yelded to the reason that might be brought why it is called that which in nature it is not As wee can yeld many reasons why the Sacrament is called the body of Christ although it be not the body of Christ in the nature of it yet it is meete that first wee prooue that it is not his body after that manner that the Papistes defend and then shewe reasons why it is called by the name of that which it doth signifie But let vs heare Sanders reasons First the Hebrue tongue which the Euangelists Apostles writing Greek doth follow vseth the name bread for all maner of food Secondly a thing is called by the name of that which it was and not which it is as Aarons rod is said to haue deuoured the roddes of the coniurers yet was it turned from a rodde to a serpent Exod. 7. Thirdly a thing is called not onely as it is but as it seemeth outwardly to be so the Angell which the woman sawe at the sepulchre is called a yong man Marke 16. And in all these three respectes the Sacrament is called bread when it is not naturall bread For it is a kind of foode it was bread and seemeth to be breade But I will prooue that in none of these respectes it is called bread but because it is naturall bread in deede without conuersion of the substance First whatsoeuer is saide in Saint Iohn Cap 6. is not particular to the Sacrament for bread is there taken figuratiuely for spirituall foode which wee haue without the Sacrament Secondly when S. Paul calleth the Sacrament bread after consecration there is no reason why the name of bread should not be taken for materiall bread changed in vse not in substance as the name of breade taken before consecration 1. Cor. 11. and where the Apostle saith the breade which wee breake he sheweth plainlie that he speaketh of material breade for the bodie of Christe nor spiritual foode nor general foode are not broken Secondly in the conuersion of Aarons rodde there was a sensible change there is none such in the Sacrament Thirdly as the Angel had some appearance of a man in externall shape of bodie so he had other manifest tokens in him that declared him to be an Angell and no man but the Sacramentall bread hath in it all tokens of material bread and no sensible token of the bodie of Christ therefore the comparison is nothing like The water turned into wine was iudged by the taste to be wine not water There can be no such iudgement in the Sacramentall bread for as materiall bread it tasteth and partaketh all accidents yea it nourisheth and corrupteth which neither bare accidents nor the bodie of Christ doeth or can doe The authorities that Sander citeth to proue that the Sacramentall bread is called the bodie and flesh of Christ do not denie that it is material bread yea many of the old writers expressely affirme that it is so Yet let vs consider his authorities Ignatius Ep. 2. ad Rom. saith Panem Dei volo quod est caro Christi I desire the bread of God quod which thing is the flesh of Christ. Verily Ignatius saith no more here then Zwinglius saide which was no friend to transubstantiation Secondly Iustinus saith Hic cibus c. this meate is called with vs the Eucharist or thanksgiuing after he saith We take not these things as common bread drink but wee haue learned that the meate which is consecrated by the words of praier taken of him to be the flesh bloud of Christ. He that denieth the Sacrament to be coÌ„mon bread doth not denie it to be naturall bread And Iustinus interlaceth that which Sander omitteth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 That meat of which our bloud flesh by transmutation are nourished we haue learned to be the flesh bloud of that Iesus that was incarnate That which nourisheth our flesh bloud is material bread although it be not coÌ„mon bread Thirdly Hilarie saith Nos verè c. we truly take the word flesh in our Lordes meate The same Hilarie saith afterward verè sub mysterio truely vnder 2 mysterie we receiue the flesh of his bodie Fourthly Cyprian lib. 2. Ep. 3. saith Christ offered bread wine that is to say his owne bodie bloud Here Sander cutteth off the beginning of Cyprians words which manifestly proue material bread wine Obtulit hoc idem quod Melchizedech obtulerat id est panem vinu suum scilicet corpus sanguineÌ„ He offered the selfe same thing that Melchizedek had offered that is to say bread wine namely his bodie bloud Speake Sander tel vs was it not material bread wine which Melchizedek brought forth the selfsame thing saith Cyprian offered Christ which yet was his bodie bloud after a certeine maner After what maner you may learne In these wordes you haue not onely the spirituall manner after which the breade and wine are called his body and bloud but also the same breade and wine to be made of cornes grapes which I trow caÌ„ be none other but material bread and wine Fifthly Irenaeus saith it is not now common bread but the Eucharisty lib. 4. C. 34. The same Irenaeus in the same place saith that Eucharistia ex duabus rebus constant terrena coelesti the Sacrament consisteth of two things an earthly thing and an heauenly Likewise he saith that of the bread wine being made the Eucharisty augeâ—ur consistit carnis nostrae substantia the substaÌ„ce of our flesh is increased and consisteth lib. 5. that is not of accidents nor of the reall body of Christ. Sixtly Ambrose de Sacr. lib. 5. calleth our daiely bread supersubstantiall breade and yet I weene it be still naturall food of the body But he saith more Non iste panis est qui vadit in corpus sed illa panis vitae aeternae qui animae nostrae substantiam fulcit It is not the bread which goeth into the body but that
of Christ by faith As for Sanders cauill that the bread is not one still seeing it is broken is an impudent Sophisme For neither can Christ at one time and in one respect be called whole and broken Do not they all eate of one sheepe which eate of it after it is deuided in partes The lawe commanded one sheep for euery houshold which was the same Sacrament in spirituall signification and effect that the one bread and cup is vnto vs. So we all eate of one material bread and are spiritually made one mysticall bread and bodie not so many aâ— eate the materiall bread but so many as eate it worthily by faith Wherefore the vertue of coniunctio is not in that which is eaten with the mouth as Sander would haue it seeme but in the mightie working of the spirite of God who not onely in this Sacrament but in all Sacraments of all times haue wrought the same spirituall vnion in all the faithful of all ages who al make one Church and one bodie whereof Christ is the head and euery one of the elect is a member CAP. V. Howe we are one mysticall bodie Sander maketh two meanes of our coniunction in this mysticall bodie faith and the Sacraments but in verie deede the spirite of God is the only principal meane which worketh this incorporation in Gods elect sometimes not onely without the Sacraments but also without actuall faith as in infants which perteine to Gods election Faith in men of yeres is an assurance of this coniunction The Sacramentes are a confirmation of faith Wherefore the bread which we breake is so a coÌ„municating of the mysticall bodie of Christ as it is an vndoubted seale of our faith by which we are assured of this communication before wee come to the communion and therefore no necessitie of the bodily presence vnder the fourme of bread For the bread that we breake is none otherwise the bodie of Christ then wee are made one bodie and one bread But wee are made one bread and one bodie spiritually and sacramentally therefore the bread is the bodie of Christ spiritually sacramentally Sander asketh Howe could one bread and one bodie be put to signifie one thing but that in deede bread and bodie are here in substance the selfe same thing I answere if bread and bodie be the selfe same thing and the selfe-same thing that the Sacrament is then is not the Sacrament the naturall bodie of Christ for wee are not made the naturall bodie of Christ but his mysticall bodie by â—â—rtaking of this bread Sander replieth that this vnion is in respect of the nanâ—rall bodie of Christ which I doe not deny but I affirme that the naturall body of Christ is communicated vnto vs by spirituall and heauenly working of his spirite and not by corporall mingling or ioyning of the same to our bodies which also Augustine in serm ad infantes aâ—â—d Bedam cited by Sander doth plainly testifie Nulli est allquatenus c. No man ought by any meanes to doubt but that he is then made partaker of the body and bloud of our Lorde when he is made a member of Christ in baptisme neither is he alienated from the company of that bread and that cuppe although before he eate the bread drinke that cuppe being placed in the vnity of Christes body he depart out of this world For he is not depriued of the partaking and benifite of that Sacrament for so much as himselfe hath found that thing which the Sacrament doth signifie whereas Christ said except ye eate my flesh and drinke my bloud ye shall not haue life in you Out of this place although it be directly against transubstantiation yet Sander is able to prooue it If the body of Christ saith he were not really vnder the forme of bread how could he that is baptised be partaker of the benifit of this SacrameÌ„t was he made partaker of bread and wine No forsooth but he is made in baptisme partaker of the bodie and bloud of Christ which is signified by that bread and cuppe So saith Augustine or who so euer was author of that sermon and therefore the bodie of Christ is none otherwise present in the supper then in baptisme But take away that bodie of Christ saith Sander from the forme of breade and there is no signe of vnitie in Christ for euery loafe betokeneth vnitie but not in Christ. Againe let the substance of breade remaine and signifie the mysticall bodie of Christ which is absent the vnion of Christ and his members is signified to be as farre asunder as heauen is distant from earth I answere this is poore Sophistry yet much vsed by Sander disioyning thinges that ought to be ioyned togither beside that this wise reason would proue likewise that baptisme is no signe of perfect vnitie in Christ because Christ is not really present with the forme of water but the substance of water remaining on earth and â—he bodie of Christ to whom wee are incorporate is in heauen Howe be it wee teach the presence of Christ in his mysteries such presence I say as is meete for his glorious maiestie namely by his spirite which ioyneth heauen and earth together and maketh our vnitie to be perfect although in nature and place wee bee neuer so farre distant And such presence of Christ in his sacraments wee acknowledge as may stande with the truth of his naturall bodie which if hee haue not like vnto ours in all thinges except sinne and such infirmitie as our bodie is subiect vnto through sinne in vaine should wee looke for the redemption of our bodies by him and the conformation of them vnto his glorious bodie The vnitie that saint Hilarie spake of wee allowe lib. 8. de Trinit If Christ assumpted truely the flesh of our bodie and wee take truelie vnder a mysterie the flesh of his bodie and by this wee shall bee one because the father is in him and hee in vs howe is the vnitie of will affirmed when the naturall propertie by the which Sacrament is a Sacrament of a perfect vnitie In this saying Hilarie reprooueth the Arrians which affirmed that the vnitie of Christ with his father was not an vnitie of nature and substance but of will only But seeing the vnitie that wee haue with Christ which is prooued by his taking of our flesh truely and by giuing his flesh truelie vnto vs vnder a mysterie in the Sacrament to bee an vnitie in substance and not in will onely it is absurd to say that the vnity of Christ and his father should bee one lie in will Now let vs see what poyson the Spider sucketh out of this wholsome flower First he noteth that we truely take the flesh of Christ I graunt vnder a mysterie as Hilarie saith so many as receiue the SacrameÌ„t worthily for els wicked men should be vnited to Christ as he is to his father Secondly the mysterie with Sander must be the forme of bread
saieth hee for all men that by my selfe I may giue life to all and my flesh may bee made a ransome of all For death shall dye by my death and the nature of men shall rise againe together with me You may nowe iudge in what sense Cyrillus writeth and howe farre the sense of Sander is from the meaning of Cyrillus The sixt Booke To the Preface BEcause the adoration of the Sacrament doeth most of all conuince the reall presence Sander pretendeth that he hath appointed this booke seuerally to proue that poynt whereas in deede hee laboureth for the most part to prooue the adoration by the presence which is a beggerlie crauing of the principle or that which is in question CAP. I. The adoration of Christes bodie is prooued out of the Pâ—phâ— Da 〈…〉 id in the 21. Psalme The adoration of Christes bodie is no question betweene vs but whether the sacrament is to be adored that thereby the reall presence might be proued The place of the Psalme 22. after the Hebrewes is this verse 26. I will paye my vowes before them that feare him The poore or meeke shall eate and be satisfied they shall praise the Lord seeking him your soule shall liue for euer All the ends of the earth shall remember and be conuerted vnto the Lord. And all the families of the Gentiles shall bow themselues before thee Because the kingdome is the Lordes and he hath dominion among the Gentiles All that be fat on the earth shal eate and bow downe themselues before him they shall all fal downe which descend into the duste In this prophetical Psalme Christ proseth three things that the faithfull shall bee sedde and nourished by him that they shall praise God and that they shall haue eternall life But for as much as Christ nourisheth the faithfull otherwise then by the sacramâ—t it is great violence to draw this prophecie only or chiefly to the sacrament as Sander doth As for adoration of the sacrament heere is no colour for it Christ promiseth plainely that such as he hath redeemed shall praise Iehoua shall worship him fall downe before him but of worshipping the meate whereof they eate and are satisfied there is no mention in the worlde I passe ouer his fantasticall application of the words of the Psalme and meddle onely with that which is pertinent to the question But the kingdome of God requireth an inuisible presence saieth Sander concerning the person of the king But yet visible concerning the formes of bread wine to the end his mebers may know where to worship him And must wee haue the visible formes of bread and wine that we may know where to worship him Why doe wee not knowe that he is ascended into heauen and sitteth on the right hand of God the father shall wee not worship him sitting at the right hande of god in heauen S. Paul willeth vs to seek those things that are aboue where Christ is and not those things that are on earth because Christ is in heauen Col. 3. But that this interpretation of the Psalme to be meant of the sacrament is not of Sanders inuention we must heare the iudgement of the elder writers And first he beginneth with Hierome in Psal. 21. Vota Christi The vowes of Christ are his natiuitie and passion the vowes of the church are good workes or els I will offer the mysterie of my bodie and bloud with them who celebrate those things in his feare Although this writer referre the text partlie to the mysterie of the bodie and bloud of Christ in the Sacrament yet hath he no worde of adoration of the Sacrament but reserreth it altogether to God and Christ beside that his exposition farre differeth from Sanders explication The like sayings he alleageth out of Augustine Cassiodorus Beda Euthymius all which affirm this prophesie of eating to perteine to eating the body of Christ in the Sacrament although not onely to it But what say they to adoration of the Sacrament Forsooth saith Sander manducauerunt adorauerunt are both referred to one thing they haue eaten the Sacrament therfore they haue adored the Sacrament I deny the maior the text is plaine that they haue adored bowed and fallen downe to God not to that which they haue eaten If I say Sander hath eaten giuen thanks do I mean that he hath giuen thanks to his meate or to him that gaue him meate This is a miserable argument But S. Augustine doth fortifie it For he saith vpon that Psalm Euen the rich of the earth haue eaten the body of the lowlines of their Lord neither are they so filled as yâ— poore euen vnto imitation sed tamen adorauerunt but yet they haue adored I heare that they haue worshipped but I heare not that they haue worshipped or adored the SacrameÌ„t And if you say they haue worshipped or adored the bodie of their Lords humilitie how proue you that they worshipped the same really present in the SacrameÌ„t Or that the Sacrament may be called the bodie of the lords humilitie If this wil not serue Augustine is more plaine in Ep. 120. ad Honoraâ—â—m ca. 27. Suprà dictum est c. It was 〈◊〉 before the poore shal eat be filled But here it is said all the rich of the earth haue eaten haue adored For they also are brought to the table of Christ. And they take of his bodie bloud But they adore only be not filled also because they follow not For although they eat Christ the poore man yet they disdaine to be poore And againe because God hath raised him from the dead hath giuen him a name which is aboue euery name that in the name of Iesus euerie knee shold be bowed of things heauenly earthly vnder the earth They also moued with the fame of his highnes with the glorie of his name which glorie is spred round about in the Church they come themselues to the table they eate adore but yet they are not filled because they do not huÌ„ger thirst af ter righteousnes Al this while I heare adoring of Christ but not of the Sacrament nor of the bodie of Christ really present in the Sacrament I would haue al men that eat the Sacrament not only to eat but also adore giue thanks not to the Sacrament but to him that spiritually feedeth vs by the Sacrament But â—eda expoundeth the adoring thus Adorabunt quia cum quadam exteriori veneratione accedent They shall adore because they shall come with a certein outward reuerence or worshiping Although Beda liued in a corrupt time yet the Sacrament in his time was not worshipped Therfore he speaketh of a certeine outward reuerence that men vsed in comming to the lords table which is vsed of all them that worship not the Sacrament For if Beda had meant as Sander woulde haue him he should not haue said a certeine externall worshipping but with all honor worship both
supper more then God did by his commaundement in the wildernes CAP. III. The adoration of Christes bodie in the sacramen 〈…〉 proued out of the new Testament The Apostle saith the vnworthie receiuer eateth and drinketh damnation not putting a difference betweene our Lordes bodie and other meates saith Sander And this difference is in two pointes the first in due preparation of our selues which is required in other sacramentes to receiue the grace of God the seconde is in respect of the substance of the meate that is receaued which is to be honored and adored I answere the earthly substance is not to be adored the heauenly substance is to be adored in heauen where it is really present and not vppon the earth and as well in Baptisme as in the supper But Chrysostome in 1. Cor. Hom. â—8 saith hee eateth vnworthily who considereth not as it behooueth the greatnes of the things set forth not weighing diligently the greatnes of the gift Hee speaketh not of the effect saith Sander but of the substance of the Sacrament because he saith afterwarde If thou doest learne diligently who is s 〈…〉 foorth thou needest to account nothing else I aunswere that admitte he speaketh of the heauenly substance of the Sacrament that is Christ yet he aduocheth no reall presence of him vnder the formes of bread and wine for Christ is set foorth in all his Sacramentes both of the olde Testament and the newe Christ washeth vs in baptisme euen as hee feedeth vs in his supper and hee purgeth vs with his bloode as verily as hee feedeth vs with his bodie and bloode Neither doth Ambrose in 1. Cor. 11. meane any other thing when he saith Wee must iudge that he is the Lorde whose blood we drinke in a mysterie For to drinke the bloode of Christ in a mysterie is to drinke it spiritually by meane of a Sacrament euen as to bee washed with the blood of Christ in a mysterie is to bee purged by the bloode of Christ by meane of the Sacrament of Baptisme Wherefore the conclusion that Sander inferreth is false and hath â—o ground nor consequence wee must iudge the subâ—â—ance of this Sacrament as the substance of him that â—s Gâ—d therefore wee must adore the substance of this â—acrament as God For admit that I must adore the boâ—ie of Christ which is God yet it followeth not that I â—ust adore it vnder the visible formes of the breade and â—ine For the body of Christ which as Irenae us saith â—s the heauenly part of this sacrament is in heauen and â—ot vnited to the bread and wine or to the shapes of theÌ„â—n personall vnion more then the bloode of Christ or â—he holy Ghost vnto the water in Baptisme yet I must â—dore the heauenly substance of the sacrament of Bapâ—isme as that which is God or in personall vnion vnited â—o God as is the humanitie of Iesus Christ our Sauiour But Chrysostome saith further in 1. Cor. Hom. 24. The verie table is the strength of our soule the sinewes of the mind the bond of confidence our foundation hope health light life I answere this is nothing else but the effect of our redemption whereof we are assured by participation of that table As for the heauenly substance that it is in heauen Chrysostome sufficiently declareth when hee affirmeth in the same Homily that we must become eagles and flee into heauen for where the dead bodie is thither wil the eagles be gathered Wherefore the adoration that is defended cannot be prooued by the true substance of the sacrament considered but by the reall presence and personall vnion thereof vnto the outward elementes which if Sander cannot shewe hee laboureth in vaine to tell vs of the true substance of the sacrament which wee confesse to bee the bodie and bloode of Christ vnto the worthie receiuer but not personally vnited to that breade and wine or the shapes of them But nowe let vs heare what he hath to say out of Saint Augustine Epi. 118. ad Ianuarium who answereth the question Whether they doe better that receaue the communion euerie day or they which at certaine times onely Neuter eorum exhonorat c. Neither of them depriueth the bodie and bloode of our Lorde of honour if each of them striue who may honor best the most healthfull sacrament For as well the Centurion as Zacheus did honor our Sauiour in manner by contrarie meanes the one by receiuing him with ioie into his house the other by saying Lorde I am not worthie that thou shouldest enter vnder my roofe And as among the Iewes Manna tasted to euerie man according to his owne will in the mouth of the faithfull euen so it is to bee iudged concerning the receiuing of that sacrament into euery Christians mouth For both one man for honor sake doeth not take it euery day an other for honors sake dareth not to omitte to take it in any daie As Manna would no loothsomenes so this meate will no contempt For the Apostle for that cause saith it to haue beene vnworthily receiued of them Qui hoc non discernebant a caeteris cibis veneratione singulariter debita which did not discerne this thing from other meates by a veneration singularly due For streight when he had said he eateth drinketh damnatioÌ„ to himself be said moreouer Not discerning our Lordes bodie the which appeareth sufficiently in all that place in the first Epistle to the Corinthians if it be diligently marked This place to Sander seemeth merueilous notable for honor due to the sacrament And who is he that thinketh the sacrament not to bee honorable Verily hee that honoreth not the sacrament of baptisme is an heretike and yet hee that adoreth the water of baptisme as the holy Ghost or as the bloode of Christ is an idolater But Sander hath no lesse then ten obseruations of this place which for tediousnesse I will not rehearse all but onely such as in which I dissent from him In the fourth obseruation he noteth that we must striue to honor the sacrament whether by this meane or that it skilleth not so it be honored If he vnderstand of those two meanes of which Augustine speaketh I agree with him if he meane that it skilleth not by what meanes so euer we honor the sacrament I say he hath no such grounde in Saint Augustine In the fifth obseruation he saith If it were in deede the substance of bread and wine hee would neuer exhort vs to bee so carefull howe to honor a meere creature were it neuer so great a signe I answere we honour not a meere creature when we honour the sacrament for his sake that instituted the same for we honour God and yet the earthly substance of the sacrament is indeed the substance of bread and wine We honor not a meere creature when we honor a magistrat and yet the magistrate in substance is a man In the ninth obseruation he asketh what is a veneration or worshipping
after an heauenly and spirituall manner in the Sacraments not by bringing the body of Christ downe vnto vs but by our ascending vp vnto him as Chrysostome sheweth plainly by that long allegory of the Eagles which he vseth in the 24. Homily Neither doth Chrysostome say that as those vngodly barbarous men did worshippe his body in the manger and handes of a woman so we being godly and ciuil must worshippe it lying on the altar or in the priestes hands in the forme of bread But he exhorteth by this exaÌ„ple his auditors to come often decently with dew reuerence preparation to the participation of the holy mysteries in which the same body of Christ though after an other manner is seene and dispensed But Chrysostom saith more plainely Hom. 28. I will shewe thee that in the earth which is worthy of highest honor Where can he shewe it saieth Sander but on the altar pointing to the host Yes forsooth he can shew it to the eies of faith for to the bodily eies he can shew nothing but breade and wine which is worthy of small honour But yet it followeth more plainely As in the pallaces of Kinges not the walles not the golden roofe but the Kinges body fâ—tting in the seate of maiestie is the worthiest thing of all so is the body of Christ the worthiest thing in heauen which is now sett forth to the earth to be seene What could the greatest Papist in Europ say more quoth Sander Verily no Papist that is aduised what hee saith will say the body of Christ is set forth on earth to be seene but onely by the eies of faith and so the Lord of all thinges is shewed by preaching by ministring of the Sacramentes but not to bee seene with eies of the body but with the eies of the mind Wherfore seing Christ is set forth to be seene on earth which sight cannot be but by faith Chrysostome meaneth of a spiritual sight shewing manner of presence and not of a bodily sight shewing or manner of presence Neither doe we inuent any shiftes as Sander saith to auoide the adoration in question for it shall neuer be prooued that the Sacrament was adored in the primitiue Church in such sort as it is worshipped and commanded by the Papistes But beside Chrysostome wee must haue a plaine authority of Theodoret who disputing against an Eutychian that denieth the humanity of Christ reproueth him by the example of the Sacrament wherein two thinges are found saith Sander but Theodoret saieth there are two natures and substances breade and wine and the body and bloud of Christ. Neque enim signa mystica for the mysticall signes after sanctification depart not out of their nature For they remaine in the former substance figure and forme But now heare the shameles glosse of Sander In substance because the formes of bread and wine subsist by the power of God and haue their being now by them selues as they had it before in the nature of bread and wine So that in substances is not in substance but in accidentes wherevpon it will followe in Theodorets argument that Christ hath not now the substance of his humanity but the substance of accidents thereof Secondly hee saieth The formes remaine in their former nature because they nourish no lesse then the substance of bread it selfe would haue done if it had remained And is it the shapes or formes of bread and wine that nourished before while the substance remained was it the former nature of the formes to nourish O monster of impudency If the substance and not the shapes did nourish the shapes now nourishing as this new Philosopher affirmeth remaine not in their former nature but haue taken vpon them a newe nature which no formes or shapes beeing accidents euer had before But hitherto Sander hath done nothing but by intollerable impudence sought to shift of the authority of Theodoret which is so plaine and direct against transubstantiation Now followeth the place for adoration which he citeth in Greeke for more credit 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. The mystical signes are vnderstoode to bee those thinges which they are made 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and are beleeued reuerenced Sander had rather say adored as being those thinges which they are beleeued to be Heere can be no lesse then reall presence and adoration And yet Theodoret meaneth neither of both in such sorte as Sander would haue him The mysticall signes are spiritually the bodye and bloud of Christ so to be beleeued and so to be esteemed reuerenced honored and adored not by any actuall conuersion of the elementes into the bodye and bloud of Christ but by the grace of God making the same spiritually which the signes represent outwardly And so shal Theodoret expound himselfe Dialogo primo Qui enim c. He which called his naturall body wheat and bread and nameth himselfe againe a vine euen hee hath honoured the tokens that are seene with the name of his body and bloud not changing their nature but adding grace vnto the nature And whereas Sander concludeth vpon the place by him cited Therefore worshippe is not giuen to them as to images which represent a thing absent It followeth immediatly after the wordes by him cited Dial. 2 Cenfer ergo imagineÌ„ cum exemplari videbis similitudineÌ„ Oportet enim figuraÌ„ esse veritati simileÌ„ Compare therefore the image with the paterne or sampler and thou shalt see the similitude For the figure must be like the trueth Theodoret calleth the same mysticall signes which are reuerenced the image and the figure which represent the body of Christ which is the principal sampler whereof the Sacrament is an image and the trueth whereof the Sacrament is a figure Se you not what reall presence he maintaineth Who so will more at larg see Theodoret cited and obserued he may reade the 52. and 56. Chapiters of mine answere to the third booke of Doct. Heskins CAP. VI. The adoration of the body and bloud of Christ is prooued by the custome of the Priestes and people of the first 600 yeares First he citeth the liturgies of Iames Clement Basil Chrysostom all which beare conterfeit names and yet say nothing to the purpose They report that the deacon said let vs be attent with the feare of God and with reuerence What is this for adoration we also charge men to come with feare reuerence to the coÌ„munion Again the Priest said before the receiuing of the coÌ„munion Sancta sanctis Holy things are for holie men Sander laboreth to prooue that they spoke of the Sacrament as though we denied that the Sacramental bread and wine were holy things when they are consecrated to be the body and bleud of Christ to the worthie receiuers But Chrysostome ad pop Antioch Hom. 61. vppon the same saith Considera c. Marke I pray you the kingly table is set before the Angels ministring at the table the king himselfe is present
haue no figure Wherefore Sander and not Master Iewell reasoneth like a Marcionite confounding the figure with the thing figured Sand. Tertullian speaking most literally of bread as it was an olde figure of Christes body whereof in Ieremie it was saide Let vs put the wood of the crosse into his bread to wit vppon his bodie saith Christ then fulfilling the old figures made bread his bodie if he did so it could not tarie bread any longer Fulk This place of Tertullian is shamefully mangled both in wordes and sense Tertullian asketh But why did he call breade his body and not rather a pepon which Marcion accounted in steed of an hart not vnderstanding that this was an auncient figure of the bodie of Christ saying by Ieremie Against me haue they thought a thought saying Come let vs cast wood on his breade that is the crosse on his bodie Therefore the lightener of antiquities sufficiently declared what he would haue breade then to haue signified when he calleth bread his body These words declare wherefore Christ did appoint bread to signifie his bodie in his supper namely because it had bene an ancient figure of his body in somuch that it was called bread But he made bread his body therefore it is not his body still I aunswere Tertullian sheweth how hee made it his body when he expoundeth it by the name of the figure of his body Baptisme being made regeneration is still a washing with water The rocke when it was made Christ remained still a rocke c. Iew. After consecration saith Saint Ambrose the bodie of Christ is signified Sand. S. Ambrose de myst cap. 〈◊〉 doth speake of that signification which is made whiles the priest pronounceth Hoc est corpus meum which words he saith do worke in the consecration that which they signifie therefore they worke the bodie and blood of Christ. Fulk Fie for shame Sander when Ambrose saith Post consecrationem after consecration will you say hee speaketh of the signification of the wordes which as spoken in the time of the consecration the words of Christ indeede doe worke as Ambrose saith and what worke they but that which is added to the elementes after cōsecration namely a signification of the bodie of Christ. Iew. It is a bondage and death of the soule saith S. Augustine to take the signe in steed of the thinges signified Sand. Saint Augustine meaneth of such kinde of signes when either the thinge which appeareth to bee signified is not at all true according to the letter or else when the thing signified is absent in substance c. Fulk Saint Augustine de Doct. Chr. lib. 3. cap. 5. speaketh expressely of figuratiue speeches when they are vnderstoode as if they were proper and cap 16. of the same booke giuing a rule to knowe figuratiue speaches from proper hee exemplifieth the eating of the fleshe of Christ and drinking his bloode to be a figuratiue speach Wherefore you see master Iewels article of chalenge standeth vntouched for any thing brought in this chapter And that Sander can yelde no good cause why master Iewel hath not fully answered Harding touching the wordes of Christes supper CAP. II. Sand. That the supper of Christ is a naked and bare figure according to the doctrine of the Sacramentaries Fulk Sander wil acknowledge nothing in the sacrament whatsoeuer we teach protest and beleeue excepte we acknowledge his real presence but a bare figure Sand. S. Hilarie and S. Cyrill teach that the nature of signes or seales is such as setteth forth y◠who le forme of the kinde of thing printed in them and haue no lesse in them then those things whence they are sealed Fulk Such a seale we beleeue the Lords supper to be of Christes death and our redemption Iew. He must mount on high saith Chrysostome whoso will reach to that body San. Accedere is to come to not to reach He spake of comming to the visible table Fulk He spake of cōming to the visible table so as we might attaine to the body of Christ which is in heauen for that cause he said we must be eagles in this life Chrys. in 1. Cor. Ho. 24. Sand. He saith Ipsa mensa The very table is our saluation life And again This mysterie maketh that while◠we be in this life earth may be heauen to vs. Fulk As earth is heauen to vs the table saluation so is the sacrament the body of Christ. Iew. Send vp thy faith saith Augu. thou hast taken him Sand. The place is abused See lib. 2. cap. 29. Fulk And see the answere there Iew. The bread that we receiue with our bodily mouthes is an eathly thing and therefore a figure as the water in baptisme Sand. The water in baptisme is no figure but the figure is the word cōming to the water As the water in baptisme is no figure when the words are absent so bread could not be a figure any longer when the words are fully past Fulk Maister Iewel speaketh of the water wherevnto the word is come which as it remaineth no sacrament after the vse of baptisme no more doth the bread out of the vse of receiuing That consecration consisteth in the onely words This is my body it is false For Christes wordes are more Take eate c. Iew. The body of Christ is y◠thing it selfe no figure Sand. The body of Christ vnder the forme of bread is it self both the thing also a figure of y◠mystical vnity of the Church So S. Hilary teacheth The natural propertie by a sacrament is a sacrament of perfect vnitie See libr. 5. Chap. 5. Fulk The natural propertie is not the personal substance or proper nature of Christ. See the answer as aboue Iew. In respect of the body we haue no regarde to the figure wherevnto S. Bernarde alluding saith The sealing ring is nothing worth it is the inheritance I sought for Sand. What a desperate custome is it for you to alleadge alwaies the fathers of the last 900. yeres whom you haue alreadie condemned Fulk What a diuelish custome is it for you alwaies to lie and slaunder Sand. S. Bernard saith the bodie and blood it selfe to bee the signe Vt securi suis c. That you may bee without feare you haue the inuestiture of our Lordes sacrament his precious bodie and bloode Fulk You falsifie Bernards wordes in translation and peruert his meaning Vt securi suis sacramenti dominici corporis sanguinis preciosi inuestituram habetis That you may bee without feare you haue the inuestitute of the sacrament of the body of our Lorde and of his precious bloode The sacrament is the inuestiture as the ring and not the bodie of Christ. If the bodie of Christe were the ring of the inuestiture Bernard woulde not haue saide the ring is nothing worth Yet the sacrament as a seale putteth vs in assurance of the inheritance and not bate bread as Sander bableth CAP. III. Sand. That Christes
the first is alreadie done that is predestination the second third is both done is a doing shal be done the is calling iustification but the fourth is now in hope shal be in deede that is glorification The Sacrament of this thing that is of the vnitie of the body bloud of Christ in some places daily in some places by certeine distance of dayes is prepared in the Lords table to some vnto life to some vnto destruction But the thing it self wherof also it is a Sacrament is to euery man vnto life to no man vnto destruction whosoeuer shal be partaker of it You haue therefore gained thus much by your cauilling that neither the flesh and bloud of Christ promised in the sixt of Iohn nor the thing of the Sacrament is the bodie of Christ which sitteth in heauen but the participation of his mysticall bodie and the fellowship or communion of his bodie and the members therof which is the assurance of eternall life But where you saye the Sacrament is that naturall body of Christ which sitteth in heauen you saye beside your booke for neither Augustine nor any ancient father did euer say that the Sacrament of the bodie of Christ was the body of Christ otherwise then after a certeine manner of speaking as Augustine saith Sander The materiall bread was prepared by the Baker ergo the Sacrament prepared in the table is the bodie of Christ. Fulke I denie the argument The Baker prepareth not the Sacrament although he prepare some parte of the earthly matter that is required vnto it more then the sexton prepareth the sacrament of baptisme by powring of water into the font CAP VII Sander Master Iewell hath not disputed well touching the omnipotencie of Christ in promising the gift of 〈◊〉 flesh Harding Christ by shewing his diuine power wherby he will ascend into heauen confoundeth the vnbeliefe of the Capernaites touching the promised substance of his bodie Iewell When ye see Christ ascend whole ye shall see that he giueth not his bodie in such sort as you imagine His grace is not wasted by morsels saith S. Augustine vsâ—â—g Christs ascension to proue that there is no suâ—â— grosse presence in the Sacrament Sander He is not present to be wasted but yet he is really eaten Fulke S. Augustines place sheweth that Christe reasoned not of his omnipotencie or diuine power but of the absence of his humanitie by his ascension and that the thing which he promiseth to be eaten is not his naturall flesh to be bitten in their mouthes but his grace to be receiued by faith in their hearts Iewell This table is the table for Eagles not for Iayes saith Chrysostome Sander I haue answered your iangling of Iayes in my 2. booke Cap. 27. Fulke And I haue confuted your babling of Eagles in the same place Iewell Saint Hierome saith Let vs goe vp with the Lorde into heauen into that great parlour and receiue of him aboue the cuppe of the newe testament Sander He saith not into heauen but into the great parlour which is the kingdome of the Church Fulke But by the greate parlour into which Christ is ascended he meaneth heauen where the kingdome of the Church is and not the earth where the Church is a stranger the worde heauen is added in Master Iewel for explication and not as parte of Ieromes wordes Sander Chrysostome interpreteth the parlour for the Church in Matth. Hom. 38. Fulke Chrysostome was no interpreter of Ierome In allegories euery man hath his owne inuention Sander Christ giueth his bodie and bloude hee is the feastmaker and the feast he gaue that Moses coulde not giue Fulke All is perfourmed in the great parlour which is heauen Wee must receiue of him aboue the cuppe of the new testament Iewell Cyrillus saith Our Sacrament auoucheth not the eating of a man leauing the mindes of the faithfull in vngodly manner to grosse or fleshly cogitations Sander Cyrillus against Nestorius denyeth the Sacrament to be the eating of a bare man not assumpted into God I haue spoken more lib. 2. Cap. 25. Fulke Cyrillus denieth the Sacrament to be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the eating of a man and not onely the eating of such a man as Nestorius blasphemed Christ to be See lib. 2. Cap. 25. Sander Cyril saith that Christ setteth before vs the assumpted flesh of the sonne man Fulke Yea but not in the Sacrament only but as it was eaten of the fathers Ad Theod. de rect fide Sander He saith moreouer the worde is not able to be eaten What M. Iewel not by faith yes verily but not by mouth but according to the dispeÌ„satioÌ„ of the vnioÌ„ Fulke God the word is not able to be eaten by faith but in respect of the dispensatiue vnion Cyril speaketh not of eating by mouth for the properties of both natures remaine to be seen of vs by innumerable reasons as it followeth immediatly Graunt eating of his fleshe by mouth and the propertie of the humane nature is cleane ouerthrowen Your charging of master Iewel with the blasphemies of Nestorius deserueth none aunswere Iewell The olde fathers Chrysostome Augustine Leo acknowledge Gods omnipotencie in baptisme yet is not Christ really there Therfore it was vaine labour to alleage his omnipotencie for the reall presence Sander Baptisme hath no promise to be the flesh of Christ therfore you haue lost your labour Fulke Baptisme hath promise to wash vs in the bloud of Christ to incorporate vs into Christ to make vs partakers of his death buriall resurrection Rom. 6. and yet no reall presence required no not of the holy ghost otherwise than by effectuall grace working our regeneration and newe birth Yea Christ doth wash vs in baptisme Ep. 5. CAP. VIII Sander Whether the Catholikes or Sacramentaries expound more vnproperly or inconueniently the wordes belonging to Christes supper Harding Because these places report that Christ gaue at his supper his verie bodie the fathers saye it is really in the Sacrament Iewell A thing is taken to make proofe which is doubtfll and the antecedent is vnproued Sander Said not Christ take eate this is my bodie Fulke This prooueth not that he gaue it in your sense But where do the fathers say it is really present in the Sacrament Iewell The fathers call the Sacrament a figure a token a signe an image c. Therefore Christes wordes may be taken with a metaphor trope or figure Sander It standeth wel togither to be a signe the trueth As Christ is the image of God yet God also Fulke It is impossible to be a signe the thing signified Neither is Christ God the Father of whome hee is the image although he be God Iewell Euen Duns sawe that following the bare letter we must needs say that the bread it self is Christs bodie Sander The place is not quoted therfore it is doubtful for no man beleeueth you Fulke Looke in the fourth booke vpon the sentences The same