the verity of the Christian fayth saying Siâ—e Deus per seipsum miro modo c. whether God doth worke these things by himselfe in that meruailous manner whereby he worketh temporall things being himselfe eternall or whether he doth the selfe same things by his ministers or whether he doth some of them by the soules of the Martyrs as he doth by men whiles they are yet heere in body or all by Angels whome he commandeth inuisibly immutably and without a body in such sort that those things which are sayd to be done by the Martyrs be done only by their prayers and impetration not also by their operation or whether some things are done by these meanes some by others which cannot by any meanes be coÌ„prehended by mortall men ei profectò haec attestantur fidei c. all these truly do giue testimony to that fayth wherein the resurrection of the flesh is preached 16. Thus discourseth this holy Father acknowledging as you see the imbecillity of mans vnderstanding to comprehend the manner how Almighty God did worke these supernaturall effects although he doubted not of the effects of themselues and yet forsooth M. Andrews must eyther know how Saynts do heare vs or els he will deny that they heare vs notwithstanding the knowne and common experience that the Church of God hath alwayes had thereof to which purpose also it may be obserued that he confeâ—seth himselfe elswhere that God was wont miraculously to relieue those that prayed at the tombes of Martyrs and yet I am sure he knoweth not how the same was wrought I meane whether God did it by himselfe or by the 〈…〉 of the Martyrs 〈◊〉 by the ministery of Angels 〈…〉 and sometymes by 〈…〉 why then doth he deny heere that Sayntâ— heare vs because he is not sure how they heare vs So as thou seest good Reader what a wyse inference he hath made with his proinde when he saith proinde aâ—diant necnâ— therfore a man is not sure whether the Saynts heare him because he is vndertayne quâ— natione audiant compellantâ—â—â— by what â—eanes or in what manner they heare him when he calleth vpon them 17. Therefore wheras he saith that our doctrine concerning the glasse of the diuine Essence and the sight of all things therin is more subtill then solid and not ceare ynough to our selâ—es it would 〈◊〉 import though it 〈…〉 seeing that we do not thereon ground our doctrine that Saynts heare or know ouâ— prayers 〈…〉 the custome and practise of the whole Church of God which prayeth to Saynts 〈◊〉 therefore beleeue that they heare vs and partly vpon euident experience of the benefits that by Gods mercyfull prouidence and ordinance men do receiue by them and partly also vpon the conformity thereof to the holy Scripture which teacheth not only that the Angelâ— in heauen do reioyce at the repentance of sinners which they could not do if they did not kneeâ— it but also that the soules of the iust being glorified 〈◊〉 aequales Angelis equall to Angels and coÌ„sequently haue the lyke knowledge that they haue besids that it is euident in the holy Scriptures that the Prophets of God did see the harts and thoughts of men and know things farre distant from themâ— Samuel told vnto Saul all that he had in his hart and Elizâ—â—s being absent saw hiâ— seruant Gâ—â—zi take gifts of 〈◊〉 the Syrianâ— and discouered also all that which the King of Syria treated in his cabinet Also S. Steuen being on earth did see our Sauiour Iesus Christ on the right hand of his Father in heauen and therefore it were absurd to imagine that the glorified Saynts in heauen could not see or know what is done on earth especially such things as concerne themselues and the honour that is done vnto them for Gods greater glory and the prayers that are directed to them for the reliefe of Gods seruants Lastly S. Iohn in the Apocalyps signifyeth that the Saynts in heauen do offer vp the prayers of holy men on earth which they could not do if they did not vnderstand and know mens prayers 18. Furthermore this doctrine is also grounded vpon the cleare testimony of the Fathers who teach it expressely As S. Athanasius who sayth that the soules of Saynts post mortem in die Iudicij cognoscent omnia shall know all things both after their death and in the day of iudgment and nullus est sayth S. Basil ex hijs qui non singula vbique consideret there is none of these he speaketh of Angels and the soules of the iust who doth not consider euery thing euery where besides that he calleth the 40. Martyrs communes humani generis custodes the common guardians or keepers of humane kind S. Ambrose also saith that Martyrs are praeâ—ules spectatores actuum nostroruÌ„ the gouernourâ— and beholders of our actions 19. In lyke manner S. Hieromâ— teacheth that it is written of the soules of the iust in the holy Scripture si quuntur agnum quocumque ierit they follow the Lambe wheresoeuer he goethâ— and then he addeth Si agnuâ— vbique c. If the Lambe â—e euery were therefore it is to be belieued that those also who are with the Lambe are euery where and seeing that Diuels go all the world ouer and by reason of their exceeding great celerity are euery where present shall Martyrs after they haue shed their bloud for Christ be shut vp as it were in a coffer that they cannot get out So he Theodoret also giueth to Martyrs the title of Duces Principes propugnatores custodes hominum c. the Captayns the Princes the defenders and guardians of men by whome sayth he those mischiefs and miseryes which Diuels do inflict vpon vs are auerted from vs. S. Chrysostome calleth S. Peter and S. Paul and Patrons and Protectors of the Emperours Whereupon it must needs follow that those blessed Apostles and other Saynts did vnderstand the actions and necessityes of those whome they protected and defended 20. Moreouer S. Augustine discoursing how the Saynts shall see God in heauen after the resurrection and whether they shall see him with their corporall eyes teacheth by the way that they shall then see all things with the eyes of the spirit etiam vnde sunt corpore absentes euen whence they are absent in body and this he proueth amply by the example of Elizaeus who being absent from his seruant Giezi saw him take gifts of Naaman and therefore sayd vnto him Nonne cor meum in praesenti erat c. was not my hart present with thee when the man came from his Chariot to meete thee and thou tookest the money Whereupon S. Augustine sayth Corde suo ergo se dixit hoc vidisse Propheta c. therfore the Prophet sayd that he saw this with his hart being no doubt admirably helped by Almighty God but how much
more shall all men then abound in this gift when God shal be omnia in omnibus all in all Thus discourseth this learned Father to proue that the Saynts after their resurrection videbunt omnia shall see all things with their spirituall eye etiam vnde sunt corpore absentes euen whence they are absent in body 21. And this must needs be vnderstood in lyke manner of glorifyed soules before the resurrection for that the glorification of their bodyes although it shall increase their Ioy and glory yet shall not increase their vision of God or knowledge which they haue now as perfect as they shall haue after their resurrection Finally to omit many other Fathers which might be alledged S. Gregory sayth that it is not to be belieued that quae intus claritatem Dei vident c. the soules which see into the light or brightnes of God are ignorant of any thing that is abroad and againe in another place quia in illa aeterna haereditate c. for as much as in that eternall inheritance all men do see God with a coÌ„mon clarity or brightnes what is there which they cannot know who know him that knoweth all things Thus saith S. Gregory teaching as you see that the Saynts in heauen know all things in earth and yielding the selfe same reason thereof which you haue heard M. Andrews say was inaudita Patribus neuer heard of amongst the Fathers to wit that because they see and know God therefore they see and know all things in him in whome omnia constant sayth the Apostle all things do consist 22. So as howsoeuer the ancient Fathers may haue differed in opinion concerning the manner how the Saynts know things done on earth M. Andrews may see that they agree touching the effect which also is so conforme to reason that he cannot with reason deny it especially seeing he himselfe granteth that the Saynts do pray for vs of their charity loue towards vs. For if they loue vs so that as S. Cyprian saith de nostra salute sunt solliciti they are carefull for our saluation and as M. Andrews confesseth they do indeed pray for vs it must needs be granted that this their loue and care doth include a desire to know our necessityes whereupon it also followeth that they do know themâ— for if their desire should not be satisfyed they should not be so happy and blessed as the perfection of their beatitude doth requyre besides that seeing Almighty God doth glorify them not only in heauen with the visioÌ„ of his Deity but also in earth with many miracles done at their monuments as M. Andrews himselfe confesseth in his answere to a place of S. Basil it were absurd to thinke that they do not know as well the particuler fauours that God doth to men for their fakes as also the honour and glory that redoundeth thereof both to God and them without which knowledge their beatitude as I haue sayd should not be complete 23. Now then seeing that our doctrine that Saynts do heare or vnderstand our prayers is grounded vpon such sure foundations as heere I haue declared to wit the continuall custome and practice of the Church to pray to them the manifest experience of benefits receiued by them the conformity thereof to the holy Scriptures with the vniforme and expresse testimonyes of the Fathers lastly vpon reason it selfe how little reason hath M. Andrews to deny it vpon no better reason then because it is vncertayne in what manner they heare vs especially seeing I haue also euidently proued that the vncertainty of the manner meanes or cause of any thing can nothing derogate from the certaynty of the effect so as he must eyther bring some more solid arguments agaynst prayer to Saynts or els he shall but discouer both his owne imbecillity and the weakenes if his cause 24. And therefore he had reason to seeke some better reason which he doth seeming to put the case that it were true yea most manifest that Saynts do heare our prayers yet ne sic quidem sayth he audemus vota nostra ad illos precesque dirigere we dare not for all that direct our vowes and prayers vnto them and hereof he yieldeth this reason cùm praeceptum â—a de re nullum acceperimus praeceptum autem acceperimus in Lege disertis verbis Quod tibi praecepero hoc tantùm facies We dare not saith he pray vnto them because we haue receiued no precept concerning that poynt but haue receiued a precept in the law in expresse words What I shall command thee that only thou shalt doe So he and then concludeth id tantùm audemus facere c. We dare doe that only whereof we haue a precept Bring you a praecept and we will straight inuocate them with you Thus argueth he 25. And hath he not trow you very well proued now that nothing may be practiced in Gods Church without an expresse written precept Who would thinke that a Doctor of diuinity should haue so litle vnderstanding of the holy Scriptures as to inferre this conclusion vpon the place that he alledgeth which concerneth only the Sacrifyces that God required and commanded to be offred vnto him in the Mosaycall law as it is euident by the very circumstances of the place in the 12. Chapter of Deuteronomy from whence that precept is taken For when Almighty God had admonished the people to beware that they did not imitate the nations whose lands they should possesse in their abominable Sacrifyces saying for all the abhominations that our Lord doth abhorre haue they done to their Gods offering their sonnes and daughters and burning them with fire after this I say followeth immediatly what I command thee that only doe to our Lord neyther adde any thing nor diminish Thus sayd Almighty God as who would say whereas the gentills whose lands thou shalt possesse did worship their Gods with most abominable Sacrifyces and ceremonyes sacrificing their owne children by fire do not thou imitate them therein but offer thou to me in Sacrifice only that which I doe command thee to wit those things which are ordayned and prescrybed in the law to that end 26. And this no doubt is the cleare sense and meaning of those words for if they shal be vnderstood as M. Andrews taketh them to exclude the practice of all things whatsoeuer that were not expressely commanded in the letter of the law then the solmne feasts ordayned afterwards by Mardochaeus Iudith and the Machabees had byn vnlawfull which neuertheles are approued in the Scripture and the last of the 3. to wit the feast of the Dedication instituted by the Machabees was honoured by our Sauiour himself with his preseÌ„ce But let vs put the case that this commandment of Almighty God was generall touching the seruice and worship of God in the old law will M. Andrewes inferre thereupon that
nothing is to be belieued or practiced in the Church whereof there is no cōmandment or example in Scripture which you haue heard already confuted as well by the authority of Scripture and Fathers as also by our aduersaryes owne doctrine approuing the practice of things not cōmanded any where in Scripture as the baptisme of infants the vse of the signe of the Crosse Godfathers and Godmothers in baptisme whereto I may add the tradition of keeping Sunday holy day in memory of the Resurrection of our Sauiour with abstinence from seruile works Also the obseruation of Easter Pentecost and such feasts and diuers other things consisting in matters of practice 56. If then they approue and practice these things although they be not commanded or ordeyned in Scripture what reason haue they to reiect prayer to Saynts because there is no commandement or example of it in Scripture when neuertheles it is most conforme thereto and deduced from it as I haue partly shewed already by an inafallible rule of S. Augustine seeing it is approued by that Church which the Scripture commandeth vs to heare belieue and obay besydes that it being euident in Scripture that Charity which moueth and obligeth men to pray one for another in this lyfe nunquam excidit as the Apostle teacheth neuer decayeth but is more perfect in the next lyfe it followeth not only that the Saynts do pray for vs which M. Andrews granteth but also that we may craue their prayers for it were most absurd to thinke that we may not request them to do that which is most correspondent to their Charity and they will most willingly performe 57. Furthermore seeing that the Scripture doth teach vs to craue the prayers and help of our brethren liuing there can be no reason imagined why we should not also do the same when they are glorifyed in heauen but eyther because they do not heare or vnderstand our prayers or because they are not willing or not able to helpe vs but that they heare vs I haue sufficiently proued already and haue also answered M. Andrews his cauils concerning the same and he neyther denyeth nor seemeth to doubt eyther that they are willing to succour vs considering the perfection of their Charity or yet that they are able to do it seeing he granteth they do pray for vs if he should deny it or that their prayers may auayle vs as Vigilantius his followers did in tymes past and Zuinglius with other sectaries haue done in these our dayes he might easily be conuinced by the holy Scriptures which witnesse that God granteth the petitions of his seruants euen when they are heere subiect to sinne and misery and hath mercy on sinners for the merits of the iust as well dead as liuing and therefore the Prophet prayed ne auferas misericordiam tuam c. do not take away thy mercy from vs O Lord for thy beloued Abraham and thy seruant Isaac and thy holy Israell And we read in the booke of Kings that for Dauids sake God did mitigate his wrath towards Salomon and saued also the Kingdome of Iuda from destruction in the reygne of Ioram and Ezechias 58. In lyke manner God pardoned Iobs friends for his sake and directed them vnto him to craue his prayers for them Also for the prayers of Moyses he had mercy on the people and the lyke we read in the new testament Whereupon S. Hierome sayd to Vigilantius thus Si Apostoli Martyres c. If the Apostles and Martyrs beeing heere in body could pray for others whiles they ought to be carefull for themselues how much more may they do it after their crounes victoryes and tryumphs one Moyses obtayned of God pardon for six hundred thousand armed men and Steuen the follower of his Lord and first Martyr in Christ craued pardon for his persecutours and shall they now be able to doe lesse when they are with Christ Paul the Apostle sayth that 276. mens liues were giuen him in the ship and therefore now when he is dissolued and with Christ will he hold his peace and shall he not be able so much as to open his mouth for those which haue belieued by his preaching throughout the world and shall Vigilantius a liuing dog be better then a dead lyon Thus argueth S. Hierome by an argument a fortiori grounded on the Scripture to shew the extreame absurdity of Vigilantius the heretike who denyed that the Saynts in heauen do pray for vs and are able to helpe vs. 59. And this ability of Saynts to helpe men is to be ascribed not only to the effect of their prayers but also to their power authority and dignity seeing that Christ who is the King of Kings Lord of Lords hath all power in heauen and earth giuen him by his Father doth in the Apocalips promise to his Saynts a communication and participation of his owne Kingdome dominion and power ouer men qui vicerit sayth he dabo sedere mecum c. he that shall ouercome I will giue vnto him to sit with me in my throne as I also haue ouercome and sitten with my father in his throne dabo ei potestatem super gentes c. I will giue him power ouer nations and he shall rule them c. and according to this promise of our Sauiour the Saynts also sayd to him in the Apocalips Redimisti nos Deo in sanguine tuo c. thou hast redeemed vs to God in thy blood and hast made vs to our God a Kingdome and Priests and we shall reygne vpon the earth and this may be confirmed out of the booke of wisdome which sayth that the iust when they shal be glorified iudicabunt Nationes dominabuntur populis c. shall iudge Nations and shall haue dominion ouer people and in like manner the Psalmist saith speaking of the glory of Gods Saynts exultabunt Sancti in gloria c. the Saynts shall exult and reioyce in glory c. they shall haue two edged swoords in their hands to take reuenge vpon nations and to chastise people to tye their Kings in fetters and their noble men in iron manicles c. Thus saith the royall Prophet 60. And albeit this shal be specially and most manifestly fulfilled at the day of Iudgement when the Saynts of God shall assist our Sauiour in the Iudgment and condemnation of the wicked yet it cannot be denyed but that also in the meane tyme it is verifyed in the power and dominion that God imparteth to his Saynts giuing them the protection of Cittyes Countryes and men as it appeareth euidently by innumerable examples which might be alledged of Kingdomes and Cytties defended Gods seruants relieued and his enemies destroyed by them for which cause the ancient Fathers do worthily call them the keepers of human kind gouernours of
forth as is necessary for the gouernement of his Church which he hath committed to his charge in which respect it may truely be sayd that the light of the Church proceedeth not only from Christ but also from him as from the head thereof vnder Christ and that by his authority it is spread euery where throughout the Church 9. And this is sufficiēt to make good the similitude according to the intention of S. Cyprian who only speaketh here of the Church as of a body receiuing all the vnity of her seueral many parts from the head as the light which is spread thoughout the world receaueth vnity from the sunne therfore he argueth thus in substance As the light of the sunne dispersed ouer the earth though it haue many beames yet is but one light by reason that it proceedeth from one sunne so also the body of the Church dispersed by many members ouer the whole world is but one body because it proceedeth from one head which reason he giueth yet more expressely in the two other similituds that immediatly follow of a tree spreading forth many boughes and of many brookes flowing from one fountayne for of the former he saith that though the boughes are many and spread far abroad Robur tamen vnum tenaci radice firmatum yet the strengeth is one fastned in the strong and stiffe roote and of the later he saith in like manner that notwithstanding the aboundant and copious plenty of water dispersed by many brookes yet it is but one water because vnitas saith he seruatur in origine the vnity is conserued in the spring Who then seeth not that to apply this similitude to the Church we must needs say that albeit the sayd Church hath very many members and parts spread ouer the whole world yet it is but one body because it hath but one head wherein the vnity of all the parts is conserued 10. And to this is also conforme the rest of S. Cyprians text which M. Andrews proceedeth to lay downe thus Ramos suos Ecclesia c. The Church through her aboundant fertility stretcheth forth her branches ouer the whole earth and largely spreadeth abroad her copious riuers or brookes yet the head is one the origen or beginning one and one mother c. So sayth S. Cyprian teaching as you see nothing els in effect but that the Church being a body dispersed ouer the whole world in her members is vnited in one head and therefore he saith vnum tamen caput origo vna yet the head is one and the origen or beginning one and so hauing spoken as well of the head of the Church as of the body and declared from whence the vnity of the whole is deryued he had great reason to adde vna mater one mother giuing to vnderstand that as the Church hath one head so she is one mother one in respect of her vnity deryued from her head and mother because she is the spouse of Christ and hath children dispersed throughout the world 11. And thus may M. Andrews see that albeit S. Peter is not called in S. Cyprian a Mother yet he is acknowledged to be the head from whence the vnity of the whole Church our mother is communicated to vs her children which would haue bene as cleare as the sunne if he had layd downe the similituds themselues as well as he gaue vs only the application of them out of S. Cyprian beginning his allegation with Sic Ecclesia so also the Church c. for he knew full well that his false glosse would haue bene easily discouered if he had set downe the similituds as they are deliuered and vrged by the Father himselfe Therefore now let the Reader Iudge Quis caligauit hic who was blind heere the Cardinall or M. Andrewes Thus much concerning the first place of S. Cyprian 12. The other place is Petrus super quem Dominus fundauit Ecclesiam Peter vpon whom our Lord did found his Church whereupon the Cardinall infereth that S. Cyprian teacheth that the Church is buylt vpon S. Peter and that therfore he is the foundation of the Church and consequently the head therof because the foundation in a buylding and the head in a body is all one whereto M. Andrewes answereth thus Alter verò illi ex Cypriano locus praecidendus erat c. He thought it necessary to cut of the other place of Cyprian where it seemed little to fauour the Primacy for thus it is nam nec Petrus quem primum Dominus elegit c. For neyther did Peter whome our Lord chose the first challenge any thing insolently to himselfe nor take vpon him arrogantly to say that he had the Primacy or that he ought to be obayed of those that were yonger and later then he Wherein the mynd or sense of Cyprian seemeth to be that if Peter had sayd that he had the Primacy he had insolently challenged somewhat to himselfe and therfore the Cardinall suppressed this part of the text warily because it made litle for the Primacy and rather tooke hold of the former part where Cyprian saith that the Church was buylt vpon Peter c. 13. Thus sayth M. Andrews with somewhat more which I will also lay downe after a whyle when I shall first haue examined this wherein you see he would fayne make the Reader belieue that the Cardinall had vsed some art or fraud in leauing it vncyted as not fauorable but rather preiudiciall to S. Peters Primacy wheras in truth it doth notably proue it and no way impayre or infringe it as he may see in the Cardinals controuersyes where amongst very many other places alledged for the Primacy of S. Peter he vrgeth this fortifying it notably with the authority of S. Augustine who also cyteth those words of S. Cyprian though vpon another occasion Therefore I will set downe the Cardinalls owne words to the end that he may answere for himselfe who hauing brought the testimonyes of a whole Iury as I may say of Greeke Fathers to wit Origen Eusebius S. Basil S. Gregory Nazianzen S. Epiphanius the two S. Cyrils S. Chrysostome Euthymius Theophilact Occumenius and Hugo Etherianus all of them expressely acknowledging the supremacy of S. Peter aboue all the other Apostles addeth as many more of the Latin Fathers and beginneth with S. Cyprian thus 14. Ex latinis S. Cyprianus in Ep. ad Quintum c. Of the latin Fathers S. Cyprian in his Epistle to Quintus sayth that Peter when he was reprehended by Paul would not say that he had the primacy and that he ought to be obayed whereby he signifyeth that Peter had the primacy and might command all others And lest perhaps our aduersaries may say that Cyprian meaneth that Peter did not say he had the Primacy because he should therein haue affirmed that which was false let vs heare Augustine expounding this place of Cyprian lib. 2. de Baptismo cap. 1.