cries up one while and down another the self and the same thing And are not Scriptures external means and so granted by you to be useless and how then are they means of perfection if they be not useful or doe you mean something not external and so intitle a false thing Scripture But I fear your Ministry is rather misery then mercy for if you had receiv'd the mercy that Paul had you would also renounce the hidden things of dishonesty as Paul did not walking in craftiness nor handling the word of God deceitfully as you do And if you look a little further into the very same chapter of Paul to the Rom. you shall find him make it a matter not only of difficulty but also of impossibility that any should believe without hearing or hear without a Preacher by whom Christ is preached even by them that bring the word of God whose feet are beautiful And this is the word nigh us even at our doors not leaving us to travel to Jerusalem as of old to hear the word of the Lord which now is nigh to us though he be in heaven and we on earth by faith in him But if that that light in every individual man and woman be the sure word of Prophesie is there then a Prophetick light in all if so what doth it prophesie of life and righteousnesse for sinners in a Mediator or of death for disobedience and if this be the light that shines in a dark place what is the day-star and the Sun of righteousnesse for though the Apostle hath said that all may prophecy one by one yet hath he said again are all Prophets no but I wish the Lords people were all such and that Preaching is powerful I believe though you once denied it and I now see truth is no truth till it serve your turn And for every thing that you adde further we know it without your teaching as that every man which comes into the world of nature Christ as God enlightens with the light of nature as reason sense and the like and that he is the Saviour of the world Qu. 5. And if that the external means be useless to what end were those most sacred gifts bestowed upon men Eph. 4. 10 11 12. And how the end and intent for which they were given became void Answ. 5. The end of those gifts was for perfecting the Saints and bringing all into one faith unto a perfect man which they that teach that none can be perfect by those gifts while they live do set up a faith in people contrary to the end of those gifts and by setting up external things in stead of these spiritual gifts have you lost the gifts and have made them void and so are become enemies to the end and intent of them in others who have them and believe the end of them And thus the end and intent for which they were given are become void to you Eph. 4. 10 11 12. Rep. 5. Here also you abuse my intentions wrest my meaning as you doe the Scripture unto your owne will which we are not to query what for that I know as well as you can tell me if not better but if external means were useless and so consequently these gifts how became their end void for which they were given so that you answer not at all to the question but at confused randum and stuffe up lines with lyes First that to teach that none can be perfect in this life by these gifts is to set up a false faith produce a president of one person in all the Scripture that ever was perfect by any meanes whatsoever except Christ if you can or else yeild your self a lyar Secondly that by setting up external things for those spiritual I have made them void which is another lye and that two-fold First prove that ever I set up external things in stead of spiritual things if you can but have not you and your Ghostly Father the Pope done it in setting up carnal dictates of your own brains for that of the spirit of God Secondly that I have made them void testifie this if thou canst O subtil deceiver Thirdly that I am become an enemy to the end of these gifts in others I declare in the presence of God I honour though you oppose them wheresoever they be which is backed by a fourth lye that the end and intent of them is become void to me when my end is is not yet come but how soon it may God knowes but this I can testifie the fruits of those gifts have I reaped in my measure and by them in others have been both established and instructed in the truth and so I can witnesse the effects though not the end of them as yet But what means Paul by the spirits of just men made perfect in heaven if they were perfect before on earth and whether is Paul or you a lyar herein Qu. 6. If natural light be sufficient without the help of the means what then is become of the work of grace Eph. 2. 5 8. Rom. 11. 6. and of the growth of faith Luke 17. 5. Mark 9. 24. The practical use of Ordinances 1 Cor. 11. 2 23 24. As Baptism Matth. 8. 9. The Lords Supper Reading 1 Tim. 4. 13. Preaching Matth. 28. 20. and several other places Prayer 1 Thess. 5. 17. Rom. 12. 12 Communion of Saints in publique Assemblies Heb 10. 25. Answ. 6. The light of Christ is the gift of the grace of God which brings salvation which teaches to deny ungodliness and worldly lufts and to live soberly righteously and godly in this present world Tit. 2. 11 12. And with this light is the work of grace seen but thou that callest this natural light or wouldst make people believe it is not sufficient must needs be ignorant of that spirit whereby that work of grace and growth of faith prayer and communion of Saints Supper and Ordinances is known for without faith in the light of Christ these are not known nor accepted though dark natural imaginations may make an imitation from them in the letter 1 Cor. 2. 14. And thus are the works of grace become to all that deny the light and spirit of Christ within and take up a tradition from the letter without sensual having not the spirit Jude 19. Reply 6. O deceitful sophistry Is this an answering or a baffling Is it a satisfactory resolve when I asked you what was become of the work of grace faith the growth of Faith which is by the natural use of ordinances c. all which we own as did the Apostles though you deny most if not all of them when you wave it and proceed contrary to request to declare though but shallowly what the work of grace is how sin and how the rest are known all which is impertinent to the thing required and therefore it being only a titular answer it scarce deserves a reply so that it resteth as at
that are translated from the death of sinne and condemnation through a dissolution of the body by a natural death unto everlasting life and salvation for there is and ever will be a gulfe betweene you and your Captain General and their eternal habitation Qu. 16. And if you have no sinne to what end is Christ beneficial as an Advocate Intercessor and Mediator or is he no such Answ. 16. Christ that gives a man a light to see his sinne who redeems and cleanseth him from sinne is of use to us and all that knowes him as the Mediator and of use to keep his from the wicked one and that he toucheth them not 1 John 5. 18. And the same who sets free from sinne is he that keeps free from sinne and this benefit we have by him as Advocate Intercessor and Mediator Ephes. 16. 17. Reply 16. And here O secret Deceiver you grant what you so lately denied for if you had not owned perfect and present perfection this Query had been void and not to have been answered and therefore in answering it without any exception or caution in the least you grant the subject perfect perfection and to this alludes the whole drift of your Answer namely to justifie what you before denied even perfect purity or perfection and so endeavour to ordaine Christ a new matter and manner of officiating as Advocate Intercessor and Mediator and that Christ gives a man that beleeves in him light to see his sin I own and witnesse and therefore you knowing not your sins it is unto me an evident manifestation that you have not the true light of Jesus Christ but to particulars Intercession is a passing between or being surety to undertake to satisfie for ones debt now if you acknowledge no debt due for sinne what need have you of a surety is he not uselesse unto you in this respect And a Mediator is one that goeth betwixt or withstandeth a matter that it goeth not forwards that is betwixt us and Gods wrath against us for sinne and how can he withstand that which is not And if there be no sinne what need is there of an Advocate to plead for us will not innocency acquit it selfe But if any man sinne not else we have an Advocate with God the Father Jesus Christ the reghteous and he is the propitiation for our sinnes that is a Sacrifice for to appease Gods anger for so the word signifies kindled by our sinnes and quenched by his blood for without blood is no Sacrifice made Now if we have no sinne there can be no wrath unlesse God can be unjust which is impossible and therefore there needs no appeasment where there is no anger And thus if you have no sinne is Christ uselesse as a Mediator and Advocate for sin So this Query rests unanswered also Qu. 17. And if you are perfect in purity what is the cause you are not also perfect in glory Answ. 17. Perfect glory is perfect purity and every one according to their measures are glorified therewith but this world knows not whose glory fadeth neither can they judge of it with their impure spirit 2 Cor. 3. 18. And of this glory all the Saints have a measure in this life but the world hates it Reply 17. Here you also grant againe that which before you denied to wit perfect purity that you in no wise here deny but rather justifie the present enjoyment of it but if you are now perfect in purity and glory is there not yet a greater and more sublime perfection of both to be expected by the faithful and if there be is not this you now pretend to enjoy imperfect by reason of that which excelleth and if there be not what then is Scripture untrue and is not this an alluding unto an immediate enjoyment of heaven upon earth and if so then that which you before denied is here also confessed concerning heaven upon earth and if this be perfection then I am sure that as is the world so is thy spirit ignorant of that which indeed is perfect and true perfection which no carnal or apostatiz'd eye can see unto for it is spiritually discerned Qu. 18. And if you disown method in teaching I Quere whether you have any command against it and whether you esteeme confusion better then uniformity Answ. 18. That method and teaching which is out of the doctrine of Christ which is in the wisedome of man and in the wisedome of words of mans wisedome out of the unity of the light of Christ and his Spirit this we see to be confusion and not uniformity and against it we have a command which was judged with the spirit of the Apostles so do we 1 Cor. 2. Reply 18. This pretended titular answer savours so much either of ignorant folly or of sophistical deceit is so far exorbitant from the thing required that it rather deserves to be laugh'd at then in the least to be reply'd unto Qu. 19. Whether ever intentively the Gospel was promised to be made known or practically that it was made known without the means to wiâ— the Ministration of man if not why then doe you resist it Ans. 19. The Gospel was made known and promised intentively and practically to the servants and children of God without the ministration of man as to Adam Enoch Noah Abraham Isay and all the Prophets John Baptist Simeon the Shepherds Paul and divers others and the same he doth at this day and none can limit him nor doe I resist what meanes he uses but such as resist his works deny his light and would limit him Gen. 3. 15. Gen. 9 9. Gen. 17. 7 Luke 3. 20. Luke 2. 10. Gal. 1. 11 12. Reply 19. O blind Sophister could probability have rendred such absurdity as possible to be in any especially one so much pretending peculiar and sacred knowledge as to bring the meanes as a testimony against it selfe as you doe and as absurd would it be to imagine that any should preach the Gospel of Christ as from themselves though I dare presume to say you doe for then would it be of man not of God And I meane thus whether ever God by promise or by practice intended or did make publick his Gospel but by the use of the meanes to wit man which it could not be but it must be first reveal'd to man and so be by man but not of man as you falsly affirm it is which meanes was Enoch who preached the Gospel in publick which had been revealed unto him in private and Noah the eighth person was a Preacher of righteousnesse and so was Isay insomuch that I have heard it made a question whether he were most properly a Prophet or an Evangelist and so were the rest of the Prophets Preachers of the same Gospel and therein were those meanes which you seem to deny and the like was John the Baptist a Preacher of the Gospel and therefore a meanes and a Minister of
not themselves therewith to sit downe and rest here as did the Apostles For the present I shall leave it to them to examine whether they fight not against Gods Councels and determinations and let them be careful how they grope for a heaven on earth left they misse it where it is even above all Principalities and powers in Christ his presence where there is fulnesse of joy and pleasures for evermore Quere 6. Seeing you say the Scriptures is the ground of faith and that they who can read the Scriptures have power to beleeve as you did the last first day then I say can any beleeve who have not read or heard the Scriptures if yea then is not their faith without ground by your opinion or is there more grounds of faith then one or is the Scriptures Christ An Answer to the Sixth Query Most impudent and no lesse disconsolate and thrice wretched man whether it be properly the fruits of thy spirit to speak truth or a lye seems unto me a matter neither doubtful nor disputable but apparent for the first are as rare to be read in thy writings as to see a blazing star in the Firmament for ought I can conjecture I had almost said as to see a Phoenix in England which was never known but in Arabia for what you relate that I said the Scripture is the ground of faith is as notorious a lye as to affirme James Naylor to be no lyar and both as incomparable untruths as to say light is darkness or darknesse light yet I say the Scritures read and preached is a meanes to work faith for faith is by hearing and who is Paul or who is Apollo but Ministers by whom ye beleeve And since your brains are tosticated with invention and fomenting of heresie which breatheth forth nothing but lyes and falshoods and hath raised this forgery among the rest that I said he that could read had power to beleeve wert thou not led by the Father of falshood to heap up shame unto thy self though thou intendest it for others thou mayest remember I asserted that no man by any native light inherent in him had power to beleeve except he had an augmentation thereof and therefore finding the foundation of thy Quere but thy own invented lyes I shall returne it back unto thee to whom of right it belongs being forgeries of thine own head and no expressions of mine I send thee back thine own and if you please you may send it unto the Devil the father of lyes whose it was at first I deale plainly as you desired me Quere 7. Seeing you affirme that none can be Ministers of Christ but who are called of man and are learned men whether was the Apostle Paul a true Minister who saith he was neither of man nor by man and what he preached was not after man Nor was it but by revelation Gal. 1. 2 11 12. Or was Peter John and the rest true Ministers who were unlearned and ignorant men Acts 4. 13. And what lets that God may not chuse such now An Answer to the Seventh Quere If ever Satan had the penning of a paper stuffed up with untruths or Beelzebub the portraying of his unexpressible hypocrisie to the prospect of humane eyes with the pen of his falshoods then certainly he or his Agents are the Inditors of this your packet of lyes and particularly this Query which deserveth rather censure then answer or at the least to be turned back without either yet since you endeavour to render me odious in the eyes of your Proselytes I shall answer according to truth and returne thee thy lyes according as thou sentest them to me and yet be so far from revenging thy injurious slinders that I shall passe them by with an honourable scorne And whereas you say that I affirm that none can be the Ministers of Christ but such as are called of men is a branch of thy old root a most impudent lye for that were all one in effect to assert all that are called of men are the Ministers of Christ and none else and this were by consequence to affirm James Naylor that grand Fomenter of Heresie to be a true teacher of Divinity because unto me he appeares as called of man or of himselfe and so by man or else goeth not being sent and runs when the Lord bids him not goe for called of Christ he cannot be because he opposeth his commands and belyes his Institutions in general and he that preacheth downe Christ in any thing so much preacheth up Antichrist and therefore is his servant whom he obeyes and it is want of learning among the vaine praters of your Society that errours so much predominates as to exuperate in them who being ignorant of the truth speak evill of the things they doe not understand and for Paul he was a true Minister and one who was faithful in the distribution of that Gospel whereof he was made a Minister not of man nor by man but of Jesus Christ as a wise Master builder who did not erre though you may suppose he did when he transmitted of his Authority to Titus to ordaine Elders iâ— every City of Crete and for which end he was left there and directed Timothy whom to make Bishops who himselfe had received the gift of Prophesie by the laying on of the hands of the Presbyter And that Pauls doctrine was not after man but by Revelation of Jesus Christ proves thee a lyar and a seducer too that saith It is the words of men and therefore not Jesus And Peter and John were true Ministers of Christ and though that the high Priests and Rulers perceived them to be unlearned and ignorant men yet this is most sure that they spake with all manner of tongues none excepted and if this be ignorance void of learning I speak of humane learning I would gladly be informed what learning is and for Divinity if they were unlearned and ignorant woe unto them who build on their writings and ignorant indeed was Paul who saith The Scriptures are able to make a man wise unto salvation but this I am bold to say that if they were ignorant I would we were all so and such fooles as by our foolishnesse we might become exceeding wise and thereby obtain eternal Redemption and there is nothing lets but that God may doe what he will for he cannot be limited with whom all things are possible and therefore nothing impossible but yet this I dare boldly assert that God never did nor never will use any extraordinary meanes to destroy the ordinary standing meanes at you endeavour to doe neither did he or ever will send any though he may permit them to preach up Antichrists doctrine of Heresie as doe you neither did ever any except false Prophets come to claime credit unto the words that he spoke unto the best of my knowledge but he was to give proof of it either by the mighty operations of