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A40441 A dialogue by way of question and answer concerning the deity all the responses being taken verbatim out of the Scriptures. Freke, William, 1662-1744.; Freke, William, 1662-1744. A brief but clear confutation of the doctrine of the trinity. 1693 (1693) Wing F2163; ESTC R30389 26,997 16

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me with thine own self with the glory I had with thee before the world was Acts 2.31 32. 3.35 Mat. 28.18 And Jesus came and spake unto them saying all power is given unto me in heaven and earth Acts 2.24 32. 3. 15 26. 13.32 33. 16.28 1 Pet. 3.22 Who is gone into heaven and is on the right hand of GOD Angels and Authorities and Powers being made subject unto him Eph. 1.20 Which he wrought in Christ whom he raised from the dead and set him at his own right hand in heavenly places far above all Principality and Power and might and dominion and every name that is nam'd not only in this world but also in that which is to come Q. 22. But pray have you any Texts of Christ which by a Multitudinary or Ubiquitary Power given him shew him to have been more than the Socinian 's meer Man on his Resurrection A. 2 Cor. 13.5 Examine yourselves whether ye be in the faith prove your own selves know you not your own selves how that Jesus Christ is in you except ye be reprobates Mat. 18.20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name there am I in the midst of them Eph. 4.10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens that he might fill all things Mat. 23.37 Phil. 2.11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of GOD the Father Mat. 28.18 Q. 23. I perceive then that you take it for granted that as Christ had all power restor'd to him so he must have been made more than a Man to have possess'd it and so also that his being preferr'd before the Angels is a sure Argument that the Sociuian sense of him as a meer Man is not true but pray give me an account also why you call him the Son of GOD so often and so eminently in Scripture A. Acts 13.32 33. And we declare unto you glad-tydings how that the promise which was made unto the Fathers GOD hath fulfilled the same unto us their Children in that he hath raised up Jesus again as it is also written in the second Psalm thou art my Son this day have I begotten thee Rom. 1.4 Heb. 1.4 Luke 11.35 2 Pet. 1.17 For he receiv'd from GOD the Father honour and glory when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory this is my beloved Son in whom I am well-pleased Heb. 1. Q. 24. But what say you to the Text Phil. 2.6 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus who being in the form of God thought it not robbery to be equal with GOD. A. Ver. 7 8 9 10 11. in Context following tell us But made himself of no reputation and took upon him the form of a servant and was made in the likeness of men and being found in fashion as a man he humbled himself and became obedient to death even the death of the cross wherefore GOD also hath highly exalted him and given him a name which is above every name that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow of things in heaven and things in earth and things under the earth and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of GOD the Father And therein is the Equality in the universal Deputation according to what is said in the Text before Q. 25. But have you no other Texts to give colour to such an interpretation and to shew all absolute power in GOD the Father only A. Mat. 20.23 And he saith unto them ye shall drink indeed of my cup and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with but to sit on my right hand and on my left is not mine to give but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father Barely to forgive sins the Apostles had power as well as himself Mark 13.32 But of that day that is of Judgment knoweth no man no not the Angels which are in heaven neither the Son but the Father Surely Christ was as careless in speaking as the Trinitarians are corrupt in Commenting if this Climax can possibly admit a Coequality of Father and Son 1 Tim. 6.15 The Apostle speaking of the same day says Which in his time he shall shew who is the blessed and only Potentate the King of Kings and Lord of Lords c. Acts 1.7 And he Christ saith unto them it is not for you to know the times or the seasons which the Father hath put in his own power Q. 26. But there is another Text that presses hard upon you for an answer Mat. 28.19 Go ye therefore and teach all nations baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost Pray what other Scriptures have you to explain that A. 1 Cor. 12.13 For by one Spirit are we all baptiz'd into one body whether we be bond or free and whether we be Jews or Gentiles and have been all made to drink into one Spirit c. ver 27. Now ye are the body of Christ and members in particular 1 Cor. 10.2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea Q. 27. But what say you to the worshipping of Christ which the Scripture mentions Have you any Texts that limit the manner of it I mean when not personally present to us for then as at St. Stephen's death and as he is a Sovereign Lord of all 't is not to be disputed but that there is an extraordinary honour due to him A. Rev. 5.9 c. And they sung a new song saying thou art worthy to take the book and to open the seals thereof for thou wast slain and hast redeem'd us to GOD by thy blood out of every kindred and tongue and people and nation and hast made us unto our GOD Kings and Priests and we shall reign on the earth and I beheld and I heard the voice of many Angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand and thousands of thousands saying with a loud voice worthy is the Lamb that is slain to receive power and riches and wisdom and strength and honour and glory and blessing and every Creature which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and such as are in the sea and all that are in them heard I saying blessing honour glory and power be unto him that sitteth upon the throne and unto the Lamb for ever and ever Q. 27. I perceive then that by this you take the honour done to the Lamb or Christ to be but an honour given him by the Father but what say you then to 2 Cor. 13.14 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of GOD and the communion of the Holy Spirit be with you all Have you any parallel Text to shew that these words are not a worship to the Son
had with thee before the world was Mat. 22.44 John 17.24 Father I will that they also whom thou hast given be with me where I am that they may behold my glory which thou hast given me for thou lovedst me before the foundations of the world John 8.57 58. Then said the Jews unto him thou art not yet fifty years old and hast thou seen Abraham Jesus said unto them verily verily I say unto you before Abraham was I AM. Q. 16. You were saying that there are Texts in the Old Testament wherein this great GOD-Angel the Son tells us that he intended to be incarnate pray what are they A. Zech. 12.10 They shall look upon me whom they have pierced Mal. 3.1 Behold I will send my messenger and he shall prepare the way before me and the Lord whom ye seek shall suddenly come to his Temple even the messenger of the Covenant whom ye delight he shall come saith the Lord. Q. 17. Pray what Prerogative do the Scriptures allow this GOD-Angel-Son before other Angels then They say you hold that GOD the Father created this first-begotten Son first and afterwards by him as an instrument form'd all the other Creatures pray what Texts have you to support such an Opinion A. Heb. 1.2 10. GOD hath in these last days spoke unto us by his Son whom he hath appointed heir of all things by whom also he made the worlds and thou Lord in the beginning hast laid the foundations of the earth and the heavens are the work of thine hands Heb. 2.10 Eph. 3.9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery which from the beginning of the world hath been bid in GOD who created all things by Jesus Christ 1 Cor. 8 6.15.-27 28. Col. 1.15 Who is the image of the invisible GOD the first-born of every creature for by him were all things created that are in heaven and that are in earth visible and invisible whether they be thrones or dominions or principalities or powers all things were created by him and for him and he is before all things and by him all things consist and he is the head of the body the Church who is the beginning the first-born from the dead that in all things he might have the pre-eminence for it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell c. John 1.1 In the beginning was the word and the word was with GOD and the word was GOD the same was in the beginning with GOD all things were made by him and without him was not any thing made that was made he was in the world and the world was made by him and the world knew him not he came unto his own and his own received him not Q. 18. But pray what Authority have you to call the Son a GOD-Angel as you do You us'd to say that there is a Text where the Son as GOD is said also to have the Angels for his Fellows if there be such pray let us see it to satisfie us in what you do A. Heb. 1.4 Being made so much better than the Angels as he hath by inheritance obtain'd a more excellent name than they for unto which of the Angels said he at any time thou art my Son this day have I begotten thee and again I will be to him a Father and he shall be to me a Son and again when he bringeth in the first begotten into the world he saith and let all the Angels of GOD worship him and of the Angels he saith who maketh his Angels Spirits and his Ministers a flame of Fire but unto the Son he saith thy throne O GOD is for ever and ever a scepter of righteousness is the scepter of thy kingdom thou hast loved righteousness and hated iniquity therefore GOD even thy GOD hath anointed thee with the oyl of gladness above thy fellows Rev. 8.3 5.6 7 14.2 Q. 19. I see then that 't is this Prerogative of Christ that makes you think him call'd the only begotten Son of God so eminently as expressed John 3.16 c. but have you no Texts that declare Christ came to this very intent into the World incarnate to redeem his Creation that fell by Adam besides John 1 c. before A. Heb. 2.9 10. But we see Jesus who was made a little lower than the Angels for the suffering of death crown'd with glory and honour that he by the grace of GOD should taste death for every man for it became him for whom are all things and by whom are all things in bringing many sons unto glory to make the captain of their salvation perfect thro' sufferings John 6.62 Rom. 5.18 19. Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life for as by one mans disobedience many were made sinners so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous 1 Cor. 15.21 22. For since by man came death by man came also the resurrection of the dead for as in Adam all die even so in Christ shall all be made alive Eph. 4.10 Q. 20. What you believe then that the great GOD-Angel Christ was reduc'd as to the first semen of an humane Soul when incarnate and so lost all his former power by it but pray what Texts have you to prove it A. Heb. 5.7 8. Who in the days of his flesh when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death and was heard in that he fear'd tho' he were a Son yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffer'd John 17.2.18 20.21 14.31 John 12.49 For I have not spoke of my self but the Father which sent me gave me a Commandment what I should say and what I should speak Luke 22.43 And there appeared an Angel unto him from heaven strengthning him Mat. 27.46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cryed out with a loud voice saying Eli Eli lamasabachany that is to say my GOD my GOD why hast thou forsaken me Mat. 26.39 And he went a little further and fell on his face and pray'd saying O my Father if it be possible let this cup pass from me nevertheless not as I will but as thou wilt Mat. 26.53 Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father and he shall presently gi●● me more than twelve legions of Angels John 11.41 42. Then they took away the stone from the place where the dead was laid and Jesus lift up his eyes and said Father I thank thee that thou hast heard me and I know that thou hearest me always but because of the people which stand by I said it that they may believe that thou hast sent me Q. 21. But had not Christ all the glory of his pre-existent state restor'd him after the Resurrection Pray what say the Scriptures John 17.5 And now O Father glorifie thou
A DIALOGUE By Way of Question and Answer Concerning the DEITY All the Responses being taken verbatim out of the Scriptures Q. 1. WHO and what is God They say there are several called GOD's in Scripture besides the Most High GOD if it be so pray give me some examples in the matter A. Exod. 20.28 Thou shalt not revile the GODs nor curse the Ruler of thy people Exod. 7.1 And the Lord said unto Moses see I have made thee a GOD to Pharaoh and Aaron thy Brother shall be thy Prophet 2 Cor. 4.4 In whom the GOD of this world i. e. the Devil hath blinded the minds of them which believe not lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ who is the image of GOD should shine unto them Q. 2. But are not all these true Gods then as well as the Supream What say the Scriptures A. 1 Cor. 8.5 6. For though there be that are called GODS whether in Heaven or Earth as there be GODS many and Lords many but to us there is but one GOD the Father of whom are all things and we in him and one Lord Jesus Christ by whom are all things and we by him Q. 3. What say the Scriptures then of these lesser GOD's A. Psalm 97.7 Confounded be they all that serve graven images that boast themselves of idols worship him i. e. GOD all ye Gods Q. 4. They say GOD has forbid our worshipping any other but himself by the First Commandment and other places pray repeat then if there be such places in Scripture A. Exod. 20.2 Thou shalt have no other GOD's before me Deut. 6.4 Hear O Israel the Lord our GOD is one Lord v. also the Emphatick Discourse in the Text that follows it Mat. 4.10 Then said Jesus unto him get thee hence Satan for it is written thou shalt worship the Lord thy GOD and him only shalt thou serve Q. 5. But is there not a Trinity in Unity in this GOD You said you would shew me a Text that calls the Father the one GOD in opposition to the Son and Holy Ghost pray what is it A. Eph. 4.4 5 6. There is one Body and one Spirit even as you are called in one hope of your calling one Lord one Faith one Baptism one GOD and Father of all who is above all and through all and in you all Rev. 4.2 And immediately I was in the Spirit and behold a Throne was set in Heaven and one sate on the Throne Cap. 5. Ver. 6 7. And I beheld and lo in the midst of the Throne and of the four Beasts and in the midst of the Elders stood a Lamb as if he had been slain having seven Horns and seven Eyes which are the seven Spirits of GOD sent forth into all the earth and he came and took the Book out of the right hand of him that sate upon the Throne c. 1 Cor. 3.22 23. Q. 6. I see then that from these places and because that there are no such words in Scripture as Trinity in Unity you are apt to believe that there is no such Doctrine but what say you then to John 10.30 I and my Father are one and 1 Joh. 5.7 For there are three that bear record in Heaven the Father the Word and the Holy Ghost and these three are one you us'd to say that one here only signified a Unity in Record and Testimony and not a substantial Unity but pray what Scripture find you to favour such a Construction A. Joh. 17.21 Christ praying for his Disciples says That they all may be one as thou Father art in me and I in thee that they also may be one in us that the world may believe that thou hast sent me 1 Cor. 3.6 7 8. I have planted Apollo water'd but GOD gave the increase now he that planteth and he that watereth are one c. Q. 7. You us'd to speak also of a gradative precedency of Stile when there are these three Persons mention'd in Scripture you are in the right in this indeed that the Father is for the most part called GOD the Son only Lord and the Spirit but Holy as in the Apostles Creed but pray what other find you A. 1 Cor. 12.4 5 6. Now there are Diversities of gifts but the same Spirit and there are differences of Administrations but the same Lord and there are Diversities of operations but it is the same GOD which worketh all in all 2 Cor. 13.14 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ the love of God and the Communion of the Holy Spirit be with you all Rom. 15.16 That I should be the Minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles ministring the gospel of GOD that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable being sanctified by the Holy Ghost Q. 8. I perceive then by this gradation that you would insinuate as if the Son and Holy Ghost were as Servants to the Father but pray how comes it then that the Son is so often called GOD in Scripture as John 20.28 And Thomas answered and said unto him i.e. Christ my Lord and my GOD Rom. 9.5 Whose are the Fathers and of whom as concerning the Flesh Christ came who is over all GOD blessed for ever Amen and Acts 20.28 Take heed therefore unto your selves and to all the flock over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers to feed the Church of GOD which he hath purchas'd by his blood I have repeated these Texts because they seem too considerable to leave Christ among the lesser GOD's if you have any warrant therefore to call the Father the GOD even of Christ's GODhead pray shew us so weighty a Text for we do not deny him to be Christ's GOD as he was Man A. Heb. 1.8 9. But unto the Son he saith thy Throne O GOD is for ever and ever a Scepter of Righteousness is the Scepter of thy Kingdom thou hast loved righteousness and hated iniquity and therefore GOD even thy GOD has anointed thee with the Oyl of Gladness above thy fellows Q. 9. But what have you no other Scriptures to prove the preference of the Father in the Deity that he is the Son 's GOD and that the Son wholly depends on him If you have pray inform me what they are A. Rev. 3.12 wrote as spoke by Christ after his Resurrection Him that overcometh will I make a Pillar in the Temple of GOD and he shall go no more out and I will write upon him the name of my GOD and the name of the City of my GOD which is the new Jerusalem which cometh down out of Heaven from my GOD and I will write upon him my new name c. John 10.29 14.28 John 20.17 Jesus saith unto her touch me not for I am not yet ascended to my Father but go to my brethren and say unto them I ascend unto my Father and your Father and to my GOD and your GOD. Eph. 1.17 That the GOD of our Lord Jesus Christ the Father
Body at 20 we see manifestly is not the same as it is at 30 and yet we say that 't is properly enough the same to most purposes And why then also might not the whole Doctrine be true by the same reason according to John the 6th c But what Is there any such Apology as this in nature for the Contradictions of the Trinity But good God then that in the mean while we should thus embrace even the worst of Popish Errours and out-do even the Deliriums of the Heathens But what while we do thus can we think that God will either prosper us or our Popish Reformation What Can we be so presumptuous as to continue in the very sink of Errours and that to the highest Dishonour of God and yet expect his Favour and Protection VI. Nor is this Doctrine one jot less absurd when examined more particularly than when thus in the gross And thus First with relation to the Son Bless me What a number of Absurdities quite drown his absolute and coequal Divinity with the Father What God himself must die to satisfie his own Justice to himself and that only because we have offended him Bless me What a notion we have of God's Justice and so that the Infinite and Immortal God could become incarnate grow in Wisdom and suffer nay and cry out unto himself upon the Cross My God my God why hast thou forsaken me Yes yes Infinity could become a Babe Wisdom it Child and God impotent Nay surely Elijah was a vile and wretched Blasphemer to mock the Baalites as he did when he said their God was either walking talking or gone a Journey What Can we suppose that that great Prophet who was afterwards translated did not know that God himself was afterwards to become incarnate But what Did only the Man die Was only the Man tempted Christ then was but inhabited by the Godhead and when the Man was in his Streights God left him to comfort himself but where is the room for the Merits and Sufferings of the Godhead then So you say Christ liv'd and suffer'd as our Example Alas What Affinity for God to be a Pattern for Man What Is there any Parity in their Natures But no 't was not the Godhead that was tempted or suffered some say But why then is the Merits of it charged unjustly upon the Godhead when it belongs to the Man only So also sometimes by a kind of Ventriloquy they make Christ as God to be able to tell us all things but by and by again as as Man they attribute Ignorance to him So sometimes again they make him omnipotent and yet by and by again Hocus Focus we must have an Angel to comfort him against his Sufferings Good God! shall we never be delivered from these Labyrinths So also they tell us that Christ for his Sufferings is made our Mediator But what Is that an Honour for a coequal God 1 Cor. 15.28 And so that all Power in Heaven and Earth was given him on his Death But what Could he then be a coequal God before Or what Was such Power given to his Manhood only Nay and do not the Scriptures also assure us that the Son as God yet even as such has the Father as his God Heb. 1. and that even the Revelations he gave St. John he had from the Father Rev. 11. But alas our Trinitarians forsooth will not own that we honour Christ at all unless we hairbrainly equal him with them to the Father VII But now as for the pretended Deity of the Holy Ghost there there can be no such Shuffle and Apology as the Incarnation occasions for the Son and yet think you that our Trinitarians for all that cannot wire-draw the manifest Inferiority of that Holy Being also quite up to a Coequality with the Father Thus he that is not once called God in Scripture nor once order'd to be worship'd is it likely that he should be our one and only adorable Supream God And is not this true of the Holy Ghost And yet for all this do they not equal him to the Father So also he that has an Understanding distinct from God can he be God himself 1 Cor. 2.10 Or a Will distinct can he be God Rom. 8.26 27. And what then Would not these Reasonings make a man protest with the Holy Ghost that surely these men have Eyes and see not and Ears and hear not But to proceed the Holy Ghost prays to another how can he then be God Rev. 22.17 Matth. 10.20 Rom. 8.15.26 So he that men have not known much less believed and yet have been Disciples can he be God And are we not told this of the Holy Ghost in the Acts of the Apostles So also he that is sent by God and is his Gift John 16.7 Acts 12.17 1 Pet. 1.12 can he be that God giving and sending also Surely I may say that these bundles of Incongruities have so quite confounded our Trinitarians that they know not how to reason at all in the matter or their Enemy has a most peculiar Charm over them to with hold them from Truth against all the powers of Reasoning So he that receives from another or changes place cannot be God And does not this appear of the Holy Ghost by John 16 14 And his descending on Christ like a Dove and so also he that speaks not of himself can he be God And does not the Holy Ghost appear to receive what he shall speak by the whole course of Scriptures John 16.13 But good God then that Men can seign such Epicles in Theology on any pretence as that the all-wise and immutable God should be taught and truckle thus VIII Nor are these few only a small number of Consequences drawn from Reasoning Alas this Doctrine is as unscriptural as absurd The expressest Text of the Father is the first Commandment of the Son Heb. cap. 1. and of the Holy Ghost John 16.12 c. But surely those are all as contrary and remote from a coequal and independent Trinity in Unity as Light from Darkness Or if Men were otherwise minded to controvert this Doctrine by the whole Scriptures I say let them but do it fairly and have at them By wresting little single Scraps indeed the Trinitarians seem as if they had something to plead for themselves but when I have gather'd but all the Texts of a Subject together methinks nothing possibly can look more unscriptural Nay and 't is pleasant to observe how the Trinitarians even confound one another about this matter Forsooth for all this Creed is such an infallible Thunderer yet Dr. W. dares be so bold as to clip the Wings of its Damnatory Sentences and Dr. S. with the Greek Church to deny the Filioque I thought that this rare Contexture was all of a piece But I find for their turns even our very Adversaries can shew I am mistaken To be short the three grand Foundations of this Doctrine are the Eternal Generation the Procession