the Potters clay Into the Pits which they digge themselues are fallen Their Nets are broken the Birds escaped vpon the wing Nay oftentime it commeth to passe that the Fowler is caught in his owne snares Their tongues taught to talke at randon against God cleaue at most need vnto the roofe of their mouthes Riches and Princes faile both at a pinch and Friends runne away in the time of trouble All humane abets are well compared vnto Summer Brookes and water courses in the Wildernesse dry without water in time of drought and extremitie running ouer in Winter when water needeth not The Trauellers to Tema were deceiued in their hopes the Carauans of Sheba in their expectations finding no water there to drinke died with thirst in the Land of Desolation He said well that had seene much in his time and was as Potent as any in his daies An Horse is but a vaine thing to saue a man and to deliuer by his great strength Who professed againe to purpose vpon his owne particular I will not trust in my Bow It is not any Sword that shall helpe me And semblably gaue counsell to the well aduised Put not your trust in Princes nor in any child of man For why there is no helpe in them Samson we reade was surprized when his great strength failed him The Riches and Wisdome of King Salomon could not secure the state of Rehoboam nor yet free his owne times from some troubles Achitophels Head-piece so working and practique brought his necke vnto the halter Aman that great Minion of the Persian Monarch was disfauoâ—rited in a moment and yet lifted vp to looke higher then hee did before In the vse and custome of the World Reason of state for common course of management calleth Reason of Religion vnto Counsell seldome as if God were not interessed in the affaires of men but stood and beheld what and not wherefore a farre off But yet 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 at a pinch indeed the profoundest Politician is often at a stand In God it is not the greatest States man is to seeke and at a losse there is No helpe for him but in his God God must stand in procinctu put himselfe into the breach and come on lustily to the rescue or else 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 For two reasons What shall we doe for all is lost Therefore Call vpon him haue addresse to his assistance in time of Trouble For first he is of Power to make good his partie against the Deuill and all the World beside Who hath resisted the will of the Lord His power Who can stand with Him or stand before Him much lesse can any stand against Him or hinder his purposes to take effect As hee is Elshadai The Almightie the Lord and commander of both Heauen and Earth So is Hee Emanuel God with vs also Our God of old the God of our Fathers and of their Children And from Him Our God Compassion doth plentifully flow 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 where these two concurre a man may set vp his rest and ne quid vltra for assurance rest contented Now of his Power there is no Question but Hee Can. No Christian no reasonable humane Creature doth doubt of this or make scruple of it that the God and Lord of all things is Almightie But assure me hee will doe it and then I rest assecured His willingnesse Power and will both concurring in One giue full resolution to all doubts and satisfaction which any way arise for point of performance Let mee haue his Promise that Hee will and I rest secured for Performance God is not a man that He should lye nor as the Sonne of man that Hee should alter the thing that is gone out of his lips And we haue his Promise Who hath promised to heare That faithfull God and true I will heare and deliuer thee To Heare is to Regard in Gods Dialect and phrase of speech both ascendendo In whose Dialect to heare iâ— to regard from Earth to Heauen in due Obedience when man is to doe what God will haue him as Heare my Law O my People Psal 78.1 In effect the same with that which followeth Incline thine Eares vnto the words of my mouth As also Descendendo from Heauen to Earth The Lord heare thee in the day of Trouble the same with that which followeth by Interpretation The name of the God of Iacob defend thee So at Present in this passage it is instanced here and per omnia in effect the same He maketh no stop at I will heare And who ioyneth hearing deliuering so close together but commeth in instantly with And deliuer thee Accept both thy Person and Petition In gracious Acceptance Heare and Regard In reall Performance Deliuer thee First so then thus For Pitie must goe before Performance It is impossible for any to regard that heareth him not Cal or Crie Sue Petition or make his case known whom He doth regard and Deliuereth vpon regard Vpon regard had assistance doth insue For Pitty runneth soone in gentle heart Can God behold vs his in Misery heauines and not soone compassionate our distresse This Text is to the contrary most pregnant if wee were once resolued of the Parties therein Mee and Thee which indeed are Indefinite no way determined and so wee may aske the Eunuchs question Of whom speaketh the Prophet in this place Yeâ— before we call it is good to be resolued of both the parties Mee and Thee Aske wee may but if we will bee soone resolued of that doubt and scruple from the Text. For though the Parties interessed Me and Thee are not expressed directly in the passage they are necessarily inferred from the premises and so concluded to bee no other then the Creator and Creature God and Man whom God hath made The Lord and his people whom hee hath redeemed And that this intercourse and Negotiation for so it is and seemeth to be is betwixt these two Me and Thee appeareth by Collation of ver 7. Which refer to the euenth Verse Heare O my people and I wil speake I my selfe will testifie against thee O Israel for I am God euen thy God There first beginneth this Commerce to be set on foot and here they hold on in the same termes So that the Premises considered it cannot bee questioned but that To Call in time of trouble to Heare and deliuer out of Distresse are actions interchanged betwixt God and his Chosen Mee and Thee Wee beleeue an honest man vpon his word All these things being considered we may take it vpon his word that Heare and Deliuer will follow one another such a mans Word sooner then some mans Bond and shall wee make doubt of the God of Truth Him so Righteous in all his wayes so holy in all his workes Challenge him who can for breach of Promise for forgetting his Couenant and stipulation Hee made a Couenant with Abraham for
excitatur Alia sunt rerum humanarum limites alia diuinarum signa virtutum alia sunt quae naturaliter alia quae mirabiliter fiunt In effect these passages are not to purpose for our Deuotion who are left vnto ordinary courses of kinde and not directed to incertaine extraordinary dependant dispensations Therefore wee put in Ordinarily and it must not in any case bee left out For Ordinary and Reuealed things are for vs Secret and reserued for God Reason in Nature Illumination in Grace from Reuealed Intimation must bee the pole-starre of our passage in practice eyther Lex scripta or â—onnata What wee haue read or are assured of It may bee peraduenture by some speciall dispensation and indulgence vpon some Reason best knowne and reserued vnto the Maiestie of Heauen And we are not to conclude a general out of some particulars that Some one holy Saint or also many holy Saints may in some certaine cases take speciall notice of some men bee especially informed in some particulars and giue thereupon particular helpe and assistance at some time vnto some persons in some places as Saint Augustine relateth of the Reliques of Saint Stephen and Ambrose of Protasius and Geruasius Yet this particular these many particulars cannot make a Generall in true Art and Reason and therefore the rule tendered as Generall thereupon must needs bee faultie God is not tyed vnto Course in kinde nor necessitated by the Law which Himselfe hath proposed and appointed in Nature And therefore though according vnto Order and Course established the Soules of the Righteous in the hands of God haue no commerce at all any more As on the other side we must not confine God or limit his Saints from particular dispensations or Conuersation with men so farre as to bee acquainted with their ordinarie affaires and proceedings or to take notice of their Courses which is the true meaning of Caluin in that place Lib. Instit 3. Cap. 20. Sect. 24. belyed by Bellarmine so farre as if the man denyed an Article of the Creed the Communion of Saints yet extraordinary dispensations are not thereupon denyed or thereby taken away at all For Moses and Elias came forth of Paradise actually and were seene vpon Mount Tabor talking with Christ Iesus in Glory For Potamiaena remembred her promise after her death made vnto Basilides in her life and in a Vision set a Crowne of Gold in assurance of Martyrdome vpon his head related by Eusebius in his sixth Booke and fifth Chapter And so Christ Iesus might meete Saint Peter at Rome Gates though Heauen must containe him till the End of all and Mercurius wound Iulian the Apostata to death by speciall dispensation So ordinarily though when the Soule is departed out of the Bodie and the bodie returned into dust not to bee restored againe to life till the Day of Doome and Consummation of all yet contrary to this course of kinde some haue beene raised againe to life by Diuine Power extraordinarily as we are assured and some peraduenture vnto eternall Life not to returne againe vnto their dust as those that rose at our Sauiours Resurrection and were really discerned and seene of many the first fruits with the first begotten of the dead Illos non tumulos certum est repetisse silentes Ampliùs aut terra retineri viscere clausos as Tertullian is peremptorie and the most of our Writers old new But Olle quid ad te these Dispensatorie Singularities of Gods will and power vnto some particulars are no Rules for our Actions or Expectations Reuealed things and ordinary only are for vs Though wee must not regulate our actions by them and to be our directions in practice of Pietie and Deuotion Wee are not to relye vpon what God can doe nor what he sometime hath done but only vpon that ordinary course which vnlesse he shall thinke fit otherwise to dispose of hee hath appointed to bee alway kept and done Whatsoeuer he will doe I know hee can doe If once it be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 gone out of his mouth it is not impossible it shall come to passe Vnlesse we haue very good warrant indeed and where it may bee had speake those that can tell such speciall Acts of peculiar Dispensations build not vp our Faith towards sauing of our Soules noâ— yet square out our practice any way Can wee finde it assured vs by good warrant vnquestionable that Angels and Saints both or either attend vs in our courses at all assayes If wee can say and spare not Holy Angell holy such or such a Saint pray for vs If no such assurance then I see no warrant so to say Their will is good no doubt Wee conclude then that there is no question whether they are affected to vs but how they are informed of our wants for what they can doe No man will doubt of their good affections vnto their Brethren who knoweth their Charitie is inlarged Their Power is great no question to doe much which they will doe Much indeed but not yet all they would doe Whatsoeuer they aske at Gods hands for Christs sake they obtaine it without controuersie God denieth them nothing Nor any on Earth so soone as Saints in Heauen 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 haue God so ad placitum and command in a sort that I may so speake as they being powerfull with Him to preuaile for all their desires But yet as Ignoti nulla cupido No man affecteth that whereof hee neuer heard So no man doth commiserate the partie and case hee neuer knew The Heart wee say rueth not what the Eye seeth not Can they then intreate for mee or for any without Information wherein or for what How shall I informe them for my estate or bee sure I am heard when I supplicate thus Sancta Maria ora pro me Shee is in Heauen I vpon Earth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a great Gulfe is betwixt these two places She is there by Definition or Circumscription as the Soule separate can be determined and confined Shee neuer knew mee or mine in the flesh had no correspondencie with any of my Kinne beeing gathered to her Fathers in ioy with her sonne long before my selfe was borne into the World or had any thing to doe amongst the sonnes of men I know the saying is that Kings haue long eares their 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Agentes in rebus and many Informers giue them notice of passages euery where And yet not so long but that many great Rumours of great sound and noyse neuer came within the compasse of their Eares But whether Saints in Heauen haue such long Eares or not Bellarmine cannot resolue Caluin I am sure though hee traduce him for vsing the Phrase as if hee would embase the glorie of Gods Saints who meant only to shew the folly of these Perswaders in this particular Pag. 156. de alâ—era vita It is childish and ridiculous that Pinello the Iesuite hath Abraham
they doe not no not what is necessary and required in this case and what they know or how much none but themselues or God can relate which was neuer yet discouered that I could find To make them omniscious wee know is to giue them that of God which is Incommunicable to a Creature Bellarmine rightly detesteth this and complaineth that Melanthon doth iniuriously cast this aspersion vpon their Church Wee are told and haue heard much talke of their morning and euening knowledge of their Naturall power and free disposition of Diuine supernaturall dispensation of Angelicall information of Almightie reuelation But all these and other bring forth no better or stronger issue then some things at some times some of them wee know not who by some meanes or other wee cannot tell what may attaine vnto God knoweth how much and so leaue vs vncertaine wee know not where to relye vpon some helpe wee know not from whom what or how farre The great Canuaser of Controuersies for all his confidence was faine to fall off with a flat Ignoramus touching their knowledge resolued on by himselfe for a stay and cast vs off at aduentures with this resolution irresolute euery way Vnde sciant Angeli conuersionem peccatorum pro qua tantoperè gaudent in coelis vt dicitur Luc. 14. Indè sciunt Sancti nostri nostras preces The question was asked by one in good earnest How the Saints in Heauen may come to take notice of our prayers his answere is In that very sort as the Angels come to know the conuersion of a Sinner for which they so much and so greatly reioyce But good Sir Confuter of Caluin resolue vs of fellowship vndè is it that Angels know that and then peraduenture we may bee still as farre to seeke for answere as hee is said to bee vnto this indissoluble argument of Intercession of Saints departed because men liuing are employed as Mediators vnto God by Prayer therefore the Saints may be so employed Whether by Intuitiue knowledge or communication But to come to the point Whatsoeuer thing or Substance hath or can haue a knowledge of the state and condition of another must haue it originally or by Meanes and Communication Originall knowledge is Plenary and Intuitiue peculiarly proper vnto God alone who is intimiâ—r vnto euery thing then the thing is or can be to it selfe And vnderstandeth more and more perfectly then that Thing doth by or of it selfe For he only hath knowledge comprehensiue The knowledge that Saints and Angels haue For in this Question as is specified they are not diuided by the Perswaders to their Intercession is Communicated not originall they being not Creators but Creatures Communicated from God two wayes as is auouched In Himselfe without Himselfe That Supernaturally to Saints and Angels by which they that beholde his Face in glory doe withall in him as in a glasse behold infinite Formes of things and beings The other naturally proceeding from the Power of that indowment wherewith Saints and holy Angels are indowed quatenus tales in that their blessed estate Antiquitie taking vp the phrase from a passage in Saint Augustine hath named these two different degrees and kindes of knowledge in Men and Angels Matutinam Vespertinam cognitionem Their Morning and Euening knowledge That which they know in beholding of God most perfect and pure by way of Resultation from his alsufficiencie That which resideth in themselues and proceedeth from themselues not so eminent excellent nor so far extended as the other Whether by effluxe and emanation out of themselues by species congenitas which is not probable or else which is most likely though themselues are not perswaded nor yet resolued of it by spâ—cies abstractas from the Creatures Concerning their Morning knowledge more anon when wee come to take a view of their glasse of the Deitie But as touching their Euening or Naturall knowledge For their knowledge may be strict enough seeing it is vncertaine whence and what it is or how farre it extendeth who can determine or of what Capacitie and Efficacie it is For either wee must determine of it from the Effects or conclude of it by the Cause The Cause is vncertaine because vnknowne The Effects vncertaine because vnapprehended Who can say how far it extendeth Who can measure or bound it out that neuer yet spake with any Saint or Angel to be informed and take thence resolution And for any experimentall knowledge thereof it is absolutely without the verge of mans walke How little how much soeuer it bee it is put downe by themselues as a ruled Case Their Naturall disposition or vnderstanding doth not reach home to such a Power or abilitie as necessarily must concurre and is required absolutely vnto Inuocation but is of an assise by much shorter and more curtayled then will serue as thus The Prayers Petitions and Desires of Men vpon any occasion at any time are either Conceptus animi meerely Mentall and not expressed by voyce or withall Vocall thereby made knowne vnto such as are within distance Mentall Prayers meerely they apprehend not nor vnderstand at all For how can any Vnderstand the Spirit of man the thoughts of the heart of man but the man whose thoughts they are who is priuie to his owne minde Onely God who made and fashioned the Heart Who vnderstandeth all things long before they come to passe Who seeth from euerlasting to euerlasting intuitiuely knoweth the secrets discouereth the boughts and turnings of the heart because hee is intimior neerer vnto man then man is or can be to Himselfe Vocall prayers they cannot being out of distance not present with or neere vnto them that call Now in case of Petition and Inuocation it often standeth thus Men in diuers and those remote and distanced places farre asunder may and often doe at one and the same time and instant Call and Cry out for helpe and assistance in their exigent necessities How shall they helpe who cannot heare How can they heare that are not present or neere either actually or virtually by Contiguitie or Continuitie vnto and with those that Call As Saints in Heauen and men vpon Earth nor are nor can be so present each with other ordinarily except perhaps and but also perhaps by some particular dispensation I grant that the Soule is a Substance of exceeding quick dispatch and of wondrous agilitie euerie way especially sole it selfe intire separate from the incumbrances of the Bodie And yet vltra posse non est esse The actiuenesse of it is not indetermined or vncircumscribed The Soule is a Substance confined To where it is and worketh determinately If heere not there if in one place at instant not in another and though mooueable yet how in what fashion with what disposition who can say or determinately resolue It is an Idle as are many moe in him speculation that I say not Prophane which Pinellâ—s the Iesuite hath Lib. 1. ca. 17. de alterâ vita
Himselfe his Seed Ero Deus tuus seminis tui And did hee not renue it vnto Isaac for a Law and confirme it vnto Iacob for an euerlasting Testament Because hee said in his Holinesse I will not faile Dauid Are we not often put in mind what things how great he did for Dauids sake Is it not yet vpon record to stand for euer that they were The sure mercies of Dauid Whom he loueth once he loueth euerlastingly on his part his Gifts and Promises are all 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 without Repentance as much as appertaineth vnto Him If man breake not Couenant in Thou shalt bee my People God will not faile on his part I will be thy God and the God of thy seed Men so interessed are most what It hath beene the confidence of all the faithfull so to take it many of them well perswaded for the point It was a strong Confidence strange resolution of some Psalm 46.2 We will not feare though the Earth be mooued and the Hills be carried into the middest of the Sea In effect though the Fabricke of the World bee out of frame though Heauen and Earth and all those mother Elements of the World bee blended shaken and vpon point of dissipation Why Vpon what ground are they so confident The Lord of Hosts this is the reason is with vs the God of Iacob is our refuge The Lord of Hosts Who can resist him The God of Iacob who need doubt of him God Almightie can doe what hee will God of Iacob will doe what hee can Answerable to his promise of old Ero Deus tuus seminis tui Thy God I am and the God of thy seed after thee for euer Our God now this is their resolution As our Fathers God in time of old At hand to helpe vs in time of trouble as hee hath beene Good and gracious vnto all our Kinne Hee that is I am can not become I haue beene or I will be hereafter Therefore Verse 7. as in Proprietie I am God so in Appropriation I am thy God Mine and Thine are possessiue Relatiues each hath deepe interest in other So that My God thou art Holy my Soule thou art happy in hauing so good a God as is our God so readie so willing to doe thee good To come home to the purpose Hee that can diuert or preuent a mischiefe will not sit still and look on in the ruine of his house nor irrelentlesly see the desolation of those who are indeed are called Psalm 83.3 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the hidden secret the receiued ones of God nor the vtter destruction of his deerest friends The Deuill indeed will no doubt antiquum obtinere suggest in extreamity to dismay and driue vs into despaire There is no helpe for him in his God But Loquitur è proprijs who bad him say so or put this word into his mouth God neuer did it Hee speaketh it onely of himselfe and himselfe was a Lyer from the beginning Absit enim vt credat aliquis cuilibet minimo quicquaÌ„ dâ—futurum in confessione nominis constituto Beleeue not him therfore who is the Father of lyes Beleeue his word rather who is truth it selfe who keepeth his promise better then Princes doe and could neuer yet bee challenged for non performance of what hee had said Beleeue his Promise I will heare and deliuer who is and continueth Truth it selfe for euer and could not yet be challenged for non performance Beleeue his Promise and for farther assurance And it may be further perswaded by his extraordinary affection vnto his take in by the way the deere affection he beareth vnto His owne the Partie interessed more then ordinarie because themselues are more then of the common sort Diliguntur alieni this is the ascent of Loue magis proximi maximè proprij Which is Transcendent because it is Gods For Perfect are the workes of the mightie God intimated to vs as wee can conceiue of them at some extent indeed though not their owne largenesse onely thus Far and to this End that wee may perceiue how they doe excell Deus suâ—â— Nobiâ— nostra â—alutis amorem significaturus saith Chrisostome gallinarum charitatem Patrum curam matris affectum sponsi amoreâ—â— praesefert which are the greatest affections named amongst men Non quia tentum duntaxatamâ—t but because wee doe not vsually apprehend or conceiue any greater instances of Loue then these Could we imagine greater yet would his surmount as exceeding in proportion whatsoeuer is or is named great For as the man is such is his strength as is the agent such the action The greatest and largest sized Loue on Earth is the affection of a Mother to the Sonne of her Wombe Can a mother forget her child saith God and not haue compassion vpon tht Sonne of her wombe Naturall affection in tendernesse of compassion and embowelled pittie wil say no. She cannot But were it possible could shee doe so yet would not I forget you saith the Lord. The Reason is not only from his being Great that hee is Paramount in all Perfections by himselfe communicated to his Creatures as hauing and enioying that without measure which in measure proportioned hee hath imparted vnto vs But also and rather quia Nos â—mamus necessario If wee Loue it is because wee cannot chuse but doe so and often know no reason why wee doe so or should doe so Necessitie causeth vs to doe as wee doe either that of Nature or Conueniencie But de merâ voluntate diligit Deus There is no other moouer of Him then his Will Meere gracious goodnesse in Himselfe without motiue on our part maketh him for to doe as hee doth being disposed to doe good Motus à se misericordiam facit à Nobis motus facit iustitiam In no case let it once be imagined of man that God hath now at last forgotten to be gracious or shut vp his louing kindnesse in displeasure Make no question hee hath not but is the same hee was euer His Promise is past and vpon record I will heare thee and deliuer thee And his words and meaning euer went together Had hee not purposed and fully resolued To heare and Deliuer in Time of Trouble Hee would neuer haue Inuited vs to Call nor Directed vs to Call on mee For what and to whom wee had beene yet to seeke left to follow and to wander in our owne wayes and take vs to our owne Imaginations and then by all likelihood and probabilitie wee had balked the right way Otherwise our addresse had rather been to some other not fallen vpon Him who is willing and able only to relieue vs. Rather had our addresse beene vnto Any other then vnto Him and that principally in two regards for Disproportion And that in two regards then for Disaffection betwixt Mee and Thee God and Man to which two adde Ignorance to know and to vnderstand what is for our good and auaile in the day
that passeth by Each Saint hath a part as it happeneth as men are disposed or occasions are presented 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as the Foxe in the Fable Shee hath many addresses vnto many Mediators For Accesse and Audience For Dispatch and Riddance at Gods hands to bee heard and deliuered in time of Trouble few or none immediate To or By himselfe Many Mediators of Intercession onely For I say not For though shee be wise enough in confessing God the donor principall author I cannot I must not say that the Church of Rome denieth Call vpon mee to hold in good Obedience or in Diuinitie For Certainely Shee addresseth Te ad me Man vnto God vnto none but vnto God to be heard and deliuered by him alone out of tribulation in the Day of trouble as Author and Originall of all helpe and Grace deduced and deriued meerely wholly and totally from Him Freely professing willingly acknowledging as truely beleeuing as any doe or can doe whatsoeuer that Euery good gift and perfect giuing is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the worke of God and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 sent of God It is true and must not bee denied The Romane Church in her Doctrine for and concerning Practise it is otherwise doth not impaire or impeach the Sure firme and fastest Meditation the Peculiar worke of Christ Iesus or appoint Propitiators in his place who alone as all sufficient in himselfe payed the price of our Redemption and made vp without assistants or Concurrents the alone absolute atonement by his Reall and perfect Satisfaction betwixt God and Man Willingly they acknowledge and professe together with vs that None but Christ none but Christ In Earth they haue none beside Him and in Heauen not any to bee compared to him who onely through the Dignitie of his Person and alsufficiencie of his Desert meritoriously obtaineth what wee can desire or what wee Call for at Gods hands It is false which is imputed if yet it bee imputed and layd vnto their Charge That they haue many Gods or many Lords That they Call vpon Saints as vpon God to helpe them That they mention not Christ but Saints in their Deuotions They doe not deny Call vpon mee In their Doctrine and Opinion Inuocation is peculiar vnto God alone as a part of that Eternall Morall dutie which man euer doth owe vnto God his Maker and Protector in all his wayes Inuocation I meane in a proper Sense it is Aduocation and Intercession onely which they giue vnto Saints which Act is sometime called Inuocation in a large extent as it passeth and is directed from man to them Their helpe with Dauid onely standeth in the Name of the Lord who hath made both Heauen and Earth For Gratiam gloriam say they dabit Dominus It is the Lord alone that Giueth because it is in his power to giue both Grace and Glorie Therefore the great Dictator of that side layeth downe this Proposition as resolued vpon on all hands by his Partie It is not lawfull to desire or request of the Saints that as Actors of Diuine good things and Benefits they grant vnto vs glory or grace or any other meanes vnto eternall happinesse For why Our helpe standeth in the Name of the Lord that hath made Heauen and Earth And he addeth That the Saints are no immediate Intercessors for vs with God but whatsoeuer they obtaine for vs at Gods hands that they doe obtaine by and through Christ And it is for ought I know the voyce of euery Romanist Non ipsi Sancti sed eorum Deus Dominus nobis est So it must not be imputed which is not deserued were they worse then they are It is a Sinne they say to belye the Deuill a Shame to charge men with what they are not guiltie of to make the breach bigger Being in this as shee is in other opinions somewhat 〈◊〉 us already too wide Concerning Saints departed thus they teach First that according vnto Scripture and Faith of the Church They liue and subsist in their better part That their Life is hidden in Christ with God whose Presence they now enioy in Glory in Heauen That there they rest from their Labours and magnifie his Mercies incessantly who hath sent such Redemption vnto their soules That there they forget not their brethren vpon Earth but remember the Church Militant vnto God And sure if there bee a Communion of Saints and a Fellowship betwixt those two maine parts of the Tolu◠the Church of the Redeemed by the blood of Iesus Triumphant in the Heauens and yet Militant heere in Earth Orant pro Nobis saltem in genere those that enioy the Fruit of their Labors now with God are not Forgetfull of their brethren behinde and not consummate in the Flesh I insist not on this it is not now questioned by the Opposites But farther they teach that the Saints in Heauen make also Particular Intercession for vs that is Some of them for some of vs here which is in my Opinion though no point of Faith for which I would burne yet true and certaine in all Credibilitie But how it is limitted or to bee enlarged how and in what sort and sense it is true may appeare more particularly vpon the Processe Thirdly that Saints and Holy Angels in Heauen may bee ioyntly or seuerally prayed vnto Many by many by one or some One by any one or by many which accordingly their People put in frequent practise Chaunting it euery where Ora pro me The Councell of Trent that Oracle of the Romane Faith and Religion resolueth thus Sanctos Orationes suas pro hominibus De◠offerre Bonum esse atque vtile suppliciter eos Inuocare Ad eorum Orationes opem auxiliumque confugere In some Generalities as their manner is leauing way and libertie for disputes abroad And in this point not better to be answered then by taking away the ambiguitie of the word Inuocation For better Euidence in this point the Question controuersed inter partes may be limitted or rather explained thus Inuocation as was touched is a word of ambiguous signification as most words are because there are more things then words Subsistances then names to Call them by It is taken specially for to Call vpon mee as him vpon whom we absolutely relye at least vltimatè in that kind It is also vsed for to Call vnto as to Helpes Assistants or Aduocates in suite when in Time of Trouble and Necessitie wee haue Cause to come and Call on God directing our Prayers euer primâ intentione vnto him When therefore wee talke of Inuocation of Saints and dispute concerning praying vnto Saints wee must vnderstand Inuocation so as directed vnto them onely as Assistants and Mediators onely of Intercession and therefore not to be Inuocated or Called vpon in the same sense and termes as God Almightie is the Author and Donor of euery good giuing nor to bee implored as Christ Iesus is the onely Mediator of Redemption and
was heard praying for Abimelech when hee liued vpon Earth Hee will therefore bee much sooner heard of God being now in Heauen for those that he commendeth vnto Him Ridiculous For this is not the Question whether hee shall now bee sooner heard or no but whether hee can as well recommend any now vnto God as hee did the Case of Abimelech beeing with Him Can hee as well heare and vnderstand those men that desire him now to recommend their cause vnto Christ as he could Abimelech when he requested him to pray for Him If hee can so well and easily vnderstand their Case I grant hee shall as soone nay sooner be heard See how toyishly these great Masters play with their owne fancies making much adoe with that which need not trouble their enquiries but balking the maine of which most men doe doubt and yet this is that Achilles for the Catholike Cause that vnanswerable Argument forsooth which the Master of Controuersies boasteth of could neuer be answered nor assailed We reade saith He in both Testaments Viuentes à viuentibus inuocatos his meaning is that men yet liuing haue desired the Prayers of their Brethren yet liuing also as for instance Rom. 15. the Apostle intreateth thus I beseech you Brethren assist mee with your Prayers vnto our Lord therefore Licebit etiam nunc eosdem Sanctos cum Christo regnantes inuocare Euery Child can giue a non sequitur to this foolish Reason Therefore it is lawfull to inuocate the same Saints now with Christ Lawfull for Saint Paul I suppose meaneth he not so Sure the Argument concludeth for Him if for any as though Saint Paul now stood in need of the Romans Prayers If lawfull for vs to doe now that which Saint Paul did then and this bee his meaning as it is but that I know him a man of extraordinary Learning I would suppose him scarce a Smatterer in common sense and reason so that needs Roscius noluit agere aut crudior fuit the man was not himselfe in this childish dispute their state being different their conditions diuers much and many alterations interuening euery way Were there but some circumstances not the same it were sufficient to alter the state of the Question But saith He the great Controuerser thus And therefore that they plead in vaine for Inuocation If wee may not much more and rather inuoke them now then Saint Paul might then speake vnto them it is either because they will not intermediate for vs and this is false Or because they cannot and that is false Or because it is not sitting they should as being an iniurie done to Christ vnto whom alone all our Addresse should bee The first hee prooueth because their Loue is inlarged and vpon the improouement of their Charitie their desires much greater to doe vs good The second because their Power is much larger now then it was then The third hee saith cannot be supposed for then Christ was also wronged in his Office if liuing men on Earth desire their Brethren in priuate or publike to pray for them Indeed I grant Christ is not wronged in his Mediation It is no impietie to say as they doe Sancta Maria ora pro me Sancte Petre ora pro me and so no wrong vnto Christ Iesus to vse mediation of Intercession vnto Him As it is taught I adde in their Schooles by their Doctors resolued by that Oracle of Trent But not as is practised in their vse and custome where simple men inuoke Saints as they doe God goe to their Deuotions vnto the blessed Virgin not only far more frequently then to Christ Iesus but without any difference at all goe to it downe right as to the Authors and Originals of the things they desire hauing them in their power to bestow or not They haue power much more then they had on Earth Not to giue but to intreate to preuaile with God now sooner in the state of blisse and immutabilitie then in the state of Subiection vnto Sinne and Miserie But admit it not Impietie as I thinke it is not It is flat and egregious foolerie at the best Peter might say to Paul at Antioch Vnlesse they could proue them acquainted with our affaires when they liued together and Vice versa Paul vnto Peter Pray for mee without scruple or doubt or question at all But what need for one to say so now to either when neither needeth Intercession of other I cannot say now to either one or other without incongruitie or touch of Foolerie Pray for me Were I with Them could I come at them or certainly enforme them of my estate without any question or more adoe I would readily and willingly say Holy Peter blessed Paul Pray for me Recommend my case vnto Christ Iesus our Lord. Were they with mee by mee in my kenning I would runne with open armes and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 fall vpon my knees and with affection desire them to pray for me But seeing it is nor so nor so at least I cannot bee resolued so nor all Saint-inuocators in the World can prooue it so I would gladly see and know by what warrant I on Earth so vncouth and therefore vnkist so vnknowne vnto them altogether for ought can bee proued so farre remoued from all ordinarie meanes of intimation to make my case knowne can say vnto them Holy Peter blessed Paul pray for mee Let their great Grace and Fauour with God alone of which I make no question Their loue and entire affection vnto their Brethren alone of which I am as well perswaded as all the Romane Catholikes in the World are And in both these respects their more then probabilitie to preuaile in whatsoeuer they shall petitionate God for mee All this is nothing to no purpose if they cannot tell who nor what I am what I would haue or desire them to sollicite for or whether I speake vnto them implore their assistance or recommend my suite vnto them or not For I must needes in common reason make him acquainted with what I would haue whom I meane to employ in that I would haue Knowledge is the first moouer in all humane actions whatsoeuer Vltimus actus intellectus practici est primus voluntatis The Will willeth not but that which is suggested by Vnderstanding Knowledge is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 all in all in this present question and dispute of Inuocation of Saints which ordinarily they seeme not to haue of themselues nor yet possibilitie to be informed thereof Or shew how they should be acquainted vvith them Prooue mee this that they haue or may haue notice thereof and proue all I will no more contend against their Intercession if any Papist liuing or all the Papists liuing can prooue that I may make my necessities knowne vnto them ordinarily but instantly subscribe without more adoe I grant they know much and that ordinarily of themselues their owne indowments or else by infused or reuealed knowledge Know all
men are not aliue when they are dead That is doe not conuerse with men then as sometime they did while yet they liued naturally Though Bellarmine be disposed thus to toy and tâ—flle S. Augustine meant seriously that the soules departed are not interessed at all doe know nothing at all of the passages and affaires in the world as his whole discourse the instance of his mother the example of Iosiah well declareth If by naturally he meant ordinarily as it seemeth he would haue done if he durst haue touched it because he streight opposeth supernaturall interest thereunto it is most true that Saint Augustine doth resolue that ordinarily they meddle not at all know nothing at all of our affaires and no other intercourse betwixt them and vs Vnlesse by some extraordinary dispensation will hold vp Inuocation then this naturall and ordinary He granteth and I subscribe to his opinion that some Saints may extraordinarily at sometimes by speciall dispensation take notice of some things and be assistants in some cases vnto some particular persons Bellarmine himselfe bringeth that out of S. Augustine which implyeth that thus he should haue said enough to discouer his owne folly Non ideò putandum est vivorum rebus quoslibet interesse posse desuntos quoniam quibusdam sanandis vel adiu vandis Martyres adsunt Sed ideò potius est intelligendum quod per diuinam potentiam Martyres vivorum rebus intersint quonâ—aÌ„ defuncti per naturaÌ„ propriaÌ„ viuorum rebus interesse non possunt This case is put by speciall dispensation Put for Martyes onely and not for all holy Saints departed Put as a speciall act of Gods omnipotency therefore ill and falsely applyed vnto ordinary practice for all Saints departed and that speciall dispensation made a common course of ordinary practise Thus like Sâ—sâ—phus he altereth and changeth the formes the stampes and markes of things and that all to no purpose vnlesse speciall acts of Diuine Omnipotency be made common rules of action in course of Piety and intercourse betwixt God and Man â—ut ordinarily 〈…〉 Yet well fare Hugo de sancto Victore who concludeth this question thus as Bâ—el setteth it downe Many make question whether Saints departed doe heare the prayers made vnto them yea or no. Whether it bee possible that Petitioners suites should come vnto their notice and vnderstanding Certainly it is no very easie matter to set downe a conclusion resolute in questions of this nature For how can we be ascertained and resolued in our knowledge concerning them we being not able to conceiue nor find out what knowledge they haue of vs and our affaires and by what meanes they attaine vnto it This is most sure and certaine that the souls of the Righteous residing with God in the secret place of Diuine contemplation where they both doe see God and haue so farre forth information of things done abroad as may only extend to aduance and augment their own ioy inlarge their assistance tendred vnto vs. He meaneth in generall not in particular to this man oâ— that Hetherto little aduantage is for Inuocation and no matter For marke what followeth We desire Intercessors with God in our need And what wilt thou more Dost thou peraduenture feare that happily they will not pray for thee whose practice is to pray perpetually How can it then be that they should not pray for thee if thou prayest for thy selfe who yet cease not praying when thou dost desist But thou wilt reply If they heare me not I doe but wast words in vaine in making Intercession vnto them that doe neither heare nor yet vnderstand Be it so Saints heare not the words of those that call vnto them Well nor is it pertinent vnto their blessed estate to be made acquainted with what is done on earth Admit that they doe not heare at all Neither whether they doe oâ— doe not 〈…〉 Doth not God therefore heare If hee heare thee why art thou solicitous then what they heare and how much they heare seeing it is most certaine that God heareth vnto whom thou prayest he seeth thy humility and will reward thy Piety and Deuotion In effect as if it were concluded by him It is no materiall thing or of necessity to pray vnto Saints Not the tenâ—t any point of faith Be it then vnto vs as indeed it is not No point of Faith but meerely brought in out of some priuate affectâ—ons without any warrant any way more then incertainties and peraduentures that Saints departed But in 〈…〉 are to be called vnto for Aduocates and Assistants in time of trouble or howsoeuer Be it at most a point of Indifferency to be beleeued in opinion or else reiected but in practice ordinary a point of flat foolery to call vpon them In 〈◊〉 a point of fooly who are peraduenture Saints peraduenture not It may be at some time it may be not inabled or disposed wee cannot tell how or how farre to vnderstand our Petitions and our Prayers to accept and accommodate our desires I suppose the man that vnderstandeth himselfe being in need and in necessity will in his exigent necessity where euer bis dat qui citò dat not goe so farre about the bush and that on peraduentures will aduenture Life and State vpon vncertainties Iamblychus a Pagan will stout him for it whose iudgment was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Men make themselues fooles and deserue to be laughed at that aske good things otherwhere then at Gods hands who is able and willing to come at call to heare and deliuer in time of trouble Who beside his goodnesse in preuenting grace that hee willeth vs to call before he was intreated hath giuen direction in most louing inuitation For immediate accesse call vpon me thou thy selfe call vpon me without any aduocate at all or mediator or any assistant for intercession As if Inuocation of Saints were but idle Last of all they goe to practice and imitation Yet is it mainly vrged from the practice of ancient times thether they appeale and tell vs of vse in being long agoe produce vs Precedents in ancient times and tradition without the memory of man The Fathers did so in the Primitiue times Et virâ—s magno sequi est penè sapere Since that God himselfe hath ratified the custome and confirmed it by miracles from heauen and therefore wee may safely doe why not as they haue done before and as God would haue vs to doe by speciall warrant This perswasion is a potent one I confesse indeed with ordinary men in course of life But that practice not squared by a perfect rule because we liue by practice and not by precept are directed by that which men doe rather then by that which men should doe But first we might answere by S. Augustines rule in point of Precedence and example where the practices of Superiors in common course doe become rules of action vnto Inferiors and that which hath
him This Testimony in my vnderstanding speaketh to another purpose not for Intercession by Inuocation The Prayer here intended is made not to Saint nor Soule nor Angell but to God He supposeth so doe all that those Holy ones with God And of prayers made onely to God doe continually pray vnto God for the Church which prayers he desireth God would mercifully heare and grant vnto them for the good of his chosen vpon Earth Both parts in this passage militant triumphant employed in Prayer The prayer of either directed vnto God This onely difference The one as in necessity praying for themselues the other in security themselues interceding for others Neither Inuocating other for to doe it but de motu proprio and correspondent to their state Theodoret spake of the like prayers Theodoret intendeth no more but so in that testimony taken into the Controuersies Ego autem huic narrationi sinem imponens rogo quaeso vt per horum intercessionem diuinum consequar auxilium Rogo quaeso nor this nor that Saint but God alone to this end and purpose that by their Intercession and Prayers I may finde assistance which might be done although hee neuer said Sancte Tu aut Tu ora pro me as being a member of that holy Society for which they intercede continually And yet if they did intercede for him particularly it was vpon occasion extraordinary his paines and desert of them and the Church in that History which he wrote out of which this Testimony is recited De vitis Patrum But speciall Actions and particular Dispensations as hath beene often said are no rules for generall directions of Piety in point of deuotion and of Gods seruice necessarily incumbent But whereas the Controuersor telleth vs that Theodoret in Historia Sanctorum Patrum singulas vitas ita concludit If hee meane in those precise words it is most false And for that which they vrge out of his History is meerly belied scarce doth hee conclude any so If he vnderstand it to that sence it is likewise false For the 1. the 13.16.17 lines haue no such thing at all the rest that haue the thing yet differ in substance somtime often in circumstance very seldome therein agreeing The eight in number falleth in with that practice of the Ancients of friends vnto friends to remember them vnto God Ego autem cuius dum adhuc esset superstes percepi benedictionem ed vt nunc quoque fruar precatus finem imponam And in the 18. to the same purpose Ego autem rogo vt illam consequar intercessionem quam huc vsque percepi dum esset adhuc superstes Not by speciall Inuocation of him to remember him but by prayer vnto God that he may remember him or if vnto him as vitâ i d. Rogans Sanctos yet not with such confidence as if he were certaine to be assuredly heard Vitâ vj. Ego autem nunc oro vt quam dare potest cius consequar intercessionem He was not resolued what manner it was but whatsoeuer it was desireth to obtaine it So or we haue no certainty in the point or that which wee haue is not to purpose not to interpose an exception against the party as incompetent because suspected or misvnderstood because of that number who held that Saints departed doe not yet see God Damascene and Theophylact are not Homines legales to be empanelled vpon this Iury of twelue out of the Greeke Church being both Postnati vnto Primitiue antiquity and out of the verge of the Churches purity Damascene liuing in the yeere 730. and Theophylact suruiuing William Conqueror Their testimony out of Chrysostome of the Emperor his interceding To conclude with Chrysostome thus hee speaketh to the purpose in the Controuersies Homil 66. ad populum Antiochenum circa finem Nam ipse qui purpuram indutus est He meaneth the Emperor the Prince then in state Accedit illa coÌ„plexurus sepulchra fastu deposito stat sanctis supplicaturus vt pro se intercedant apud Deum Et scenarum fabrum Piscatores orat qui diademate incedit redimitus Hee meaneth Saint Peter Saint Andrew Iames Iohn and Paul though Bellarmines Interpretor whosoeuer hee was hath ignorantly and falsly and impiously too translated 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 scenarum fabrum as if Saint Paul had beene a Stage-maker who was a Tent-maker as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or rather 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifieth and not a stage-maker a course of life I dare say he did detest But let that passe as not to purpose I answere first If the testimony be no better then the title of the Oration If it be true it is not worth three blew beanes in a blew bladder For Chrysost neuer made halfe so many Orations vnder that title of Ad populum Antiochenum Bellarmine himselfe else where is my Author 〈◊〉 de Scriptori 〈…〉 3â—8 Ex homilijs ad populum Antiochenum viginti vna tantum reperiri dicuntur manuscriptae in antiquis bibliothecis Secondly this is onely a narration what was done Yet it is 〈◊〉 narration without any approbation of the thing done it is no approbation of the thing done or doing of it The testimonies recited out of the 5. and 8. Homil. vpon Saint Mathew and 1. vpon the 1 Thessal doe speake of Saints liuing and not departed and so are not to purpose The other testimonies speak of Saints liuing or ad rem 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 It is good to enioy or participate the prayers of Saints and hee instanceth the profit by Saint Peter deliuered out of prison at the prayers of the Church which I know and I thinke our Masters doe beleeue was of the Church militant and not triumphant So Hom. 44. in Gen. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Which we vnderstanding beloued let vs haue recourse vnto the Intercession of Saints and intreat them to recommend vs to God But as I said he meaneth liuing not departed Saints as interpreting that of Ier. 3.15 And my selfe could furnish them with a better But I will helpe them to a Text indeed that commeth home et rem acu carrying with it approbation nor so alone but also inuitation to performe it Tom. 5. pag. 481. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Not onely vpon this day their holy day and solemne festiuall but other dayes likewise let vs persist and attend vpon them at their Memories he meaneth Bernice Prosdocia and Domnia let vs make meanes vnto them intreat them to vouchsafe and vndertake the Patronage and protection of vs They can doe much with God now dead as they could aliue much more and rather dead then aliue For now they beare about them the markes of Christ Iesus and can obtaine any thing of our Lord and King if they but shew these markes vnto him And yet this doth not proue precisely and home And yet will not that proue the point in Controuersie the point
this cause that euen I might come and speake vnto him Therefore in conclusion to their perswasions that direct and inuite me otherwise then to call vpon Me. Without more ado I answere with Nazianzene in another case 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Let vs stand as we doe all things considered we haue no reason to change for the worse Hold that fast which we haue receiued from our Elders the ancient Christians of the purest times the eldest Tradition of the Church who neuer were acquainted with such diuersions from the right and direct way And their contrary Doctrine is both a nouelty and foolery It is a nouelty I auerre and will auow to vse such Intercession Not heard of for practice ordinary in the Church for aboue fiue hundred yeares after Christ It is foolery to goe so about the bush when without much adoe the bird may be had It cannot be proued by any Romane Catholique nor all the Roman Catholiques liuing that Saints departed of what Rancke Condition Quality Mansion or Degree soeuer can vnderstand ordinarily our Needes Necessities Votes Desires or Petitions and therefore as vnfit for this imployment are not ordinarily to be Called vpon for Helpe Assistance or Reliefe Origens conclusion will hold and shall be defended and made good against all Opponents Vtrum sancti qui cum Christo sunt aguni aliquid laborant pro nobis in particular vpon particulars est inter mysteria occulta Dej And therefore not so rashly to be resolued affirmatiuely Without any ground It is no point of Faith fundamentall or secundary neuer so resolued for many ages in the eldest times of the Church no practice of the faithfull ancient imposed or vniuersall no tradition for it much lesse Scripture no ground in reason or in Diuinity It is but folly in time of necessity to rely vpon their mediation The best course is The vsed course hath beene euer the surest way is euer without their mediation to haue immediate addresse vnto God in Christ If any Papist liuing or all the Papists liuing can iustifie the practice of their Church herein against the Doctrine and practice of the Church of England I will subscribe vnto all Popery And yet we are wronged And yet we deny no honour to the blessed Saints and deepely calumniated by foule mouthed detractors as iniurious vnto God in the dishonour of his Saints because we giue them not the honor which is not due vnto them wherof they are not any way capable Those blessed ones with God that haue fought a good fight kept the Faith finished their course as they are now regnant in glory with their Redeemer so are they honourable amongst the Righteous vpon Earth for euer They haue left a name behind them so that their praise shall be remembred for euermore The Lord hath gotten great glory by them and therefore with renowne hee will reward them No Christian will deny or enuy them their due And for my selfe I say with Nazianzene or Basil I am sure 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 It doth me good at heart to see them honoured I admire reuerence adore them in their kinde their Triumphs and Trophees ouer Death and Hell my Tongue and Pen shall most willingly set out to life with all the poore skill and faculty I haue Thrice happy Reapers of that mighty Booz that did so worthily in Ephrata and were so famous in Bethleem that sowed in teares when you went out weeping but reape now the fruit of your labours in ioy you haue left some gleanings for Ruth to gather after you to the comfort and cherishing of her poore widow mother Thrice happy guests of that royall Ahashuerosh admitted to eat at his Table in his Pallace that Non-such of God to drinke the sweet wine of felicity in the cuppes of immortality clad in the wedding garments of immutability Blessed Soules and immaculate it hath beene your turnes already being purged with the Oyle of Purification and perfumed with the Odors of the Lambes innocency to goe into the Chamber of that great King and to be married vnto him by immortality Spies of that Land of promise which indeed floweth with milke and hony to whom that Captaine of the Armies of the Lord of Hosts the Ioshua in truth and not in type hath giuen rest from all enemies round about Faire Flockes of that great Shepheard of Israel that feede vpon the Mountaines of Eternity and repose your selues in Pastures by the waters of life wee know you affoord vs your best wishes and desires refresh vs with the crummes of your delicacies there compassionate our yet Pilgrime estate that lye among Lyons feed with the Wolfe and goe to water with the Dragons We cannot forget we must not be vnmindfull of your worth Iohn Peter Paul Iames Stephen Luke Andrew Tecla those 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Sacrifices for Christ Pag. 76. as Nazianzene calleth them such as with them after them and before them Pro veritate periculis se obiecerunt cum igni ferro belluis tyrannis malis praesentibus et denunciatis alacri animo velut in alienis corporibus non suis imò vt expertes corporum dimicarunt 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 These you honour not but disgrace what you may so he expostulateth with and chargeth Iulian that Renegado but he neuer intended so to honour them as Honorificentiam regis deferre Comiti But that which is onely due vnto their Maker to giue them the honour due vnto their Maker This I must not I cannot I dare not presume to doe For how can I answere it vnto my Master who hath denounced My honour shall no man haue nor will I part stakes with any other Nay how vnto those Grandies themselues the Saints so iealous of their Redeemers honour that before all they first would plead against me and cast me vpon enditement of high Treason so farre are they from admitting or patronizing mine excesse 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 I confesse with Origen they deserue to be honoured Contra Cels 1. but not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 not to be worshipped or adored 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 The honour they expect the most and greatest we can doe vnto them saith Chrysostome To. 5. pa. 625. is to goe after them in their worth and to be followers of their good deseruings Nazianzene enlargeth himselfe much vpon this point and concludeth Hoc honorum genere magis oblectatur Cyprianus Oâ—at 18. quam cunctis alijs in vnum congestis Haec et cum apud Homines versaretur vita moribusque praesiabat et absens per nostram vocem omnibus in mandatis dat quam obsecro ne contemnatis si tamen aut illius in dolorum acerbitatibus tolerantiae ac certaminum pro virtutis defensione susceptorum aut etiam mei qui hac legatione fungor apud vos vlla habetur ratio Nazianzene did not in this nor doe we with him and all antiquity vnder-valew their worth or esteeme lightly of their atchieuements 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Men saith Chrysostome that feare GOD â—o 5. pa. 721. when they refuse to adore the Creature doe not vilifie or despise the Creature but rather giue honour to the Creator The godly man hateth not the Sunne because with Pagan Infidels he adoreth not the light thereof but giueth that respect thereto which is due Thus wee answere in this point of Inuocation and make our Apology against detraction for dishonouring or disparaging Gods holy Saints That GOD glorious in them now and euer grant vs of his grace through their Intercession for his Church in Christ that we may so passe through things temporall that finally wee loose not things eternall but together with all the Saints departed may rise againe to immortall Life FINIS Errata Pag. 2. lin 29. meere p. 3. l. 3. loue l. 17. miserentur p. 8. l. 1. alongè p. 14 l 2 reserued p. 20 l. 7. nor man p. 26.14 which doth l. 27 casâ—e dis patch p. 35.27 know not what p. 37.19 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 p. 107. l. 11 ius petes p. 110. l. pen. Non enim p. 136. l. 14 possunt p. 145. l. 8. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 p 146. l. 5. vnto p. 178 l. 8 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 l. 23. for vs to p. 182. l. 13 to a Christian Virgin ber l. 28. and of p. 189. l. 15. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 l. 18. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 p. 210. l. 19. Exercitui END