out though wee doubt not the Church did it by some one or moe of the Prophets or Elders and vnto the Church at their returne the Apostles declared the successe of their iourney In which iourney also the Apostles ordayning or rather helping the Churches to chose and ordaine Elders the word cheirotonesantes lifting vp handes whereby the whole action of chusing ordeyning is expressed doth clearly giue the propertie and right therof vnto the Churches and not vnto the Apostles only who as also the Euangelistes did but instruct direct help and assist the Church herein and not pluck away this power from the Churches Likewise the rules for the choice and ordination of Ministers in the Epistles to Timothie Titus and other places of y e scripture as Rom. 12. 1 Cor. 12. Eph. 4. are not perticularly directed or committed to the coÌ„sistorie of Elders as they cal yt sequestred withdrawen from the Church but vnto the Church consisting of al the members which is therevnto to vse as in all other publicke waighty causes such meet fit instruments as the Lorde affordeth and apoyncteth Neither is this action of approbation and acception or ordination of Ministers so seuered or disioyned from the election as these men dreame Or so tyed to the office or persons of the Elders as the Church might either not ordeyne or not ordeyne without Elders And aswel might y â— Elders take into their hands the elections excommunications c of the Church as the ordinatioÌ„ in this maner Againe if the ordination were thus of necessitie tyed to the handes office of Elders how theÌ„ should the Church after this general defection corruption vnder Antichrist where al the starres were fallen to the earth and the whole shape of the heauen departed away as a booke wrapped vp a new strange ministry brought out of the bottomlesse pit with him as wee reade euer recouer or haue anie true Ministrie againe in this world where should they haue true Elders to ordaine their Ministers In the false and papisticall Church there can be no true Elders or Ministers of Christ The true members of Christ can not be made the members of that Beaste the members of that Harlot The true Ministers of Christ cannot belong vnto neither can administer in the false Church but only belonge vnto and administer in the true stablished Church of Christ. But now in the tyme of this general apostasie and papistical corruption Mr. G. cannot shewe anie where anie true visible established Church vpon earth with the true ministrie gouernment worship sacraments ordinances of Christ howsoeuer in a singular conceipt of his owne he haue pleaded the Church of Rome and her daughters in their deipest apostasie to be in the true Church they and al theirs within the Couenant from antient discent to haue the true seale therof namelie baptisme there giuen vnto them all Yet here not being to be founde anie true christian Ministers or Elders who shal now ordaine their Ministers at their first comming out of popery departing from the Romish Church For nowe we wil transfer the case from our selues who are so odious in Mr. G. his eyes as no good thing wilbe allowed in or to vs vnto themselues When they first came out of poperie were they then Corah his companie an assembly of mutinous prentices Were they not all priuate men Or which of them was otherwise Ordinary or permanent Ministers they could not be because there was no true visible established Church vpon earth and for a thowsand reasons that might be drawen froÌ„ the forgery of their office administration c in y e popish Church Extraordinarie Ministers Apostles or Euangelistes the could not be because as we haue aboue proued they were ceased after y e foundatioÌ„ was once laide and y e work rightly erect according to the true paterne Neither finde we to any one established Church the offices of Apostles or Euangelistes perticularly giueÌ„ belonging or erected in anie of them as a ministri of contynuance Neither had these meÌ„ the caling due to Apostles Euangelistes Nor yet did they chalendge or execute anie such office as appeareth by their writings and profession where they would not haue bene ashamed of y e ministry God had caled them vnto to haue published themselues such as they were But if so be they had donne this yet their practize being so discrepant from the Apostolike paterne worke of the former Euangelistes we might not at any hand accept them for such Thus then at their first comming out of the false Church and gathering together they were but priuate men What then were they hereticks schismaticks for departing out of the false church were they coÌ„uenticlers sectories c for assembling together were they vsurpers and intruders without caling mutiners rebels against Princes and abridgers of their power aud withdrawers froÌ„ their obedience allegeaÌ„ce for dissuading the people froÌ„ the false Church the yoke of Antichrist al their detestable idolatrys and enormities for caling them to the communion of Sainctes to procede to the choice of Ministers and to the practize of Christes Testament as the Lorde shoulde reueale vnto them Al this they did or at the least professed endeuored to doe Yet I hope M r. G. that so buildeth their Tombes and garnisheth their sepulches wil not thus say of them howsoeuer he rayle on vs that doe and protest to doe no whit more If they were faithful ChristiaÌ„s such are we holding the same commune faith with them al Sainctes not as yet truly chardged or duly conuinced of any one error contrary to the faith They left the false Church so do we They assembled ioyned together in the faith of Christ so do we or at y e least would doe They were but priuate men and so are we They herein are not iudged to haue offended God or their Prince and why should wee for the same They herein did more then to come out of Babilon They did more then sweepe or repaire the house for they proceeded to the choice ordination of Miâ—â—sters to the building of the house c Or ells Mr. G. by his owne reasons must condemne them the Church and al the ministrie of the land yea of all Europe as wel as vs. IF he alleadge that though they left their popish administration and to administer in the popish Church yet they left not that ministerie they there had Wee answere as we haue answered that they receiued no better ministrie in the false Church then the false Church could did giue them neither could they bring anie better out theÌ„ they there receiued But the true ministerie belongeth not to the false Church neither caÌ„ the false Church ordaine true Ministers Againe whoseuer leaueth the publick administration of his Ministrie forsaketh his Ministrie But they left the publick administratioÌ„ of their ministrie The like argument may be drawen for leauing the
two edged sworde of his mouth to cut downe all sinne The mightie spirituall weapons of his worde to bring in captiuitie euerie thought to the obedience of CHRIST to to the ouerthrowing of all munitious reasonings and sublimitie lifted vp against the knowledge of God and to haue in a readines to reuendge all disobedience To cast sinne into the Epha and the talent of Gods iudgment vpon yt and to remoue yt out of the Church with all power and celeritie with the vvinges of a Storke and the wynde vnder their vvinges and to lift vp the Epha betwixt the heauen and the earth in the eyes of all men CHRIST hath giuen this aucthoritie to his seruantes whom he hath left in his house and hath commanded them all therfore to watche together To obserue and avoide them that cause anie diuisions or offenses contrarie to the doctrine that they haue learned To contende for the maintenance of the whole faith Not to intermit or to be withdrawen from anie part of the same by anie man or Angell for persecution or anie thing that man can doe vnto them euerie where vvarning instructing and exhorting his seruantes not to feare persecution for righteousnes sake to take vp and beare his crosse daylie c Likewise for the neglect of those thinges God reproueth and stirreth vp the Churches To repent and to doe the first workes or ells he wil come against them speedily and remoue their candlestick To repent or ells he wil come against them speedily and fight against them with the sworde of his mouth Commending those Churches that kept that they had the worde of his patience in persecution promising them the Crowne of life if they remaine faithfull vnto the death to make them that ouercome pillers in the Temple of God c. M r. Giffard he is contented that vnder heathen or popish Princes the Church now may reforme or proceed in the practize of the whole will of God but at no hand where the Prince posesseth the faith in the fundamental poinctes though otherwise he erre and mis-leade the whole Churche in some matters of doctrine or touching the rules of discipline In these abuses and corruptions euerie priuate man is to keepe a good conscience but none to take publick aucthoritie to reforme Because these Kinges are principal members of the Church c. What cleare conscience any priuate man that yeildeth to these publick seene errors or transgressions Or the whole Church whilest yt wittinglie doth or suffreth these thinges to be donne can keepe we haue aboue shewed in the SECOND PRINCIPAL TRANSGRESSION How expreslie contrarie this leauened traditionall proposition of M r. G. is to all these Scriptures and doctrines aboue recited is so euident to all men as yt needeth no furder or lardger refutation If God haue committed his whole worde vnto his Church as the foundation of their faith and of euery action they doe commanding them to stand to the death for the maintenance of the whole truth and the holy practize of the same and to cast out in his name and power all that publicklie and obstinatlie hold anie opinion or that so commit anie transgression contrary to his worde If God for the neglect hereof haue menaced to come in iudgment and exhorteth the Churches vpon the first discouerie hereof to speedie repentance Howe can M r. G. persuade the Churche to contynue wittingly in open errors publick transgression or in this estate promise them peace The holie Ghost hath not set downe this as a note of a true Prophet Neither hath God promised anie peace to thē that wittingly contynue in any error or transgression vntil they repent Doth not one deade flie putrifie and cause to stincke the whole oyntment of the Apothecary A litle leauen make sower the whole lumpe Wee would knowe of him therfore whether that diuelish distinction of fundamental errors and transgressions and such errors and transgressions as he holdeth not fundamentall wherebie he turneth away the practize of what part of Gods worde he lusteth and iustifieth or at the least tollerateth what open errors publick transgressions of Gods worde he lusteth will excuse him or anie that wittinglie breake the least of Gods commandements And whether the aucthoritie or christianitie of anie Prince wil in that daye excuse before the Lorde anie man that hath at the Princes commandment committed much more contynued to committ anie transgression without vnfaigned repentance But if the least error be contrarie to true faith the least transgression sinne and no knowen sinne or error to be committed or continued in howe can he persuade the Churche to commit or to contynue in anie error or transgression so highly to tempt and prouoke the Lorde And now to the poynct we would know of him whether anie Prince much-lesse a christian Prince may abrogate the commandement of God or take away that power and aucthoritie that God hath giuen to the Church vnto the worldes end If not but that the commandements of God remaine alwaies the same and the Churche hath the same power vnder a christian magistrate that vnder a heathen why then yt ought not to proceede to the obedience and practize of Gods worde whether in correcting and redressing faultes or in going forewarde in the wayes of God as they are reueiled vnto them as well and freelie vnder a Christian Prince as vnder an heathen Is it because a Christian Princd is the principall and greatest member of the Church why by so much the rather ought and the better may the Church doe it hauing now such a singular help and rare accomplement of so pretious a member Euerie true member is giuen for the help and comfort and not for the hindrance and hurt of the body Wee may then much better conclude that the Church vnder a christian Prince may procede with all freedome in the sincere practize of CHRISTES Gospel because he is a member of CHRIST of the Church then vnder an infidel Prince that is an enimie to CRHIST and to the Church ANother reason he bringeth whie the Churche vnder a christian Prince may not reforme without his licence or vntill hee will because it is the office of a christian Prince to reforme the Church and therfore the Church in taking such a publicke worke vpon them shoulde but vsurpe and encroch vpon his office Because wee are so apt to mis-vnderstand one an other and to take words in too lardge or straight a sense it were good wee set downe what is meant by this reformation here spoken of before we proceede Wee meane then by reformation to reduce all thinges and actions to the true antient and primatiue paterne of Gods worde This we graun to be the office and duetie of the Prince to doe aswel in the Church as in the common Wealth The Princes eye may suffer no transgression of Gods lawe he is to ouersee and see euerie one to doe their dueties in the office
multitudes without exception anie one person are with them receiued into and reteined in the bozome of the Church 3 FOR that they haue a false Antichristian Ministerie imposed vpon them reteined with them and maintained by them 4 FOR that these Churches are ruled by and remaine in subiection vnto an Antichristian and vngodly gouernment cleane contrarie to the institutioÌ„ of our Sauiour CHRIST VVhen these things stand thus let him that readeth consider THE first Article is that which all Christians doo seek in dead but the kingdome of CHRIST or the kingdome of God as CHRIST saith is within men Yt consisteth in righteousnes peace ioye in the holy Ghost For the preseruation of this CHRIST hath ordeined a Church gouernmeÌ„t They sinne against God which do not couet and according to their calling labour to haue so great a help But to transport the name of Christs kingdome which is spirituall which is in the heart vnto this which is but a part and as though the kingdome of God could not be in anie vnlesse they haue this so they do not wilfully despise yt I say is false and the contrarie to be proued by the Scriptures OVR Article being by you confessed to be the bounden dutie of al true Christians we see not with what equitie you can in this maner cauil at our wordes or with what conscience you can misconstrue and constreine them as you doo seeking therby to retract by sleight what you cannot gainesay in truth And taking occasion to contend about wordes Namely the kingdome of CHRIST You make yt only inward and vse CHRIST as one of the Phisitians planitarie signes assigning to him in hipoctisie your heart soule to rule whilst in y e meane time you yeild your bodies and whole assemblies to the obedience and rule of Antichrist making no coÌ„science to obey his lawes openly and to transgresse Christs thinking belyke Christs kingdome so inward and spirituall as that he requireth no bodily or outward obedience or because yt consisteth of righteousnes and peace and ioye of the holy Ghost that ther may be peace without righteousnes or ioye without peace or inward righteousnes where is such outward disobedience and wilfull transgression But al this is couered and cured at once if so be you couet labour in your calling to haue CHRISTS outward gouernment c. To discusse here how far euerie Christians dutie calling extendeth herein vvere to dismisse all your answers at once and to pluck away the mantle of shame wherwith you couer your nakednes your negligence and all your abhominations In this place therfore we will only ask you these 2 questions First whither anie which haue their calling of Antichrist or be his marked Ministers or waged seruants can truly and vprightly couet labour for the sincere gouernment of CHRIST which is his whipp wherwith he â—kourgeth out all thieues intruders and idle-bellies out of his house The next question is Whither to remaine wittingly and seruilely in the bondage and yoake of Antichrist 29 yeares be to seek labour for the gouernment of Christ faithfully in your callings or to vphold and vndershore the kingdome of Antichrist rather But to transport the name of Christs kingdome which is chiefly spirituall and in the heart vnto that which is but a part c. How diuerslie the kingdome of God is read in the Scriptures we will not contend with you although it were not hard to shew either your ignorance or forgetfulnes herein Only this we say our words can carie no such construction muchlesse such an erronious opinion as you abounding in your owne sense haue not only collect but confuted In the first our words being That we seeke the kingdome of Christ Iesus our Lord cannot be thus restreined to Christs outward orders and gouernment in his Church especially if you had pondered that which followed where in the â— Article after your diuision we haue expressed this point in perticular Neither if we should admit you yâ— interpretation could you collect from thence that the kingdome of God could not be in anie vnlesse they haue this But as we vsually reade in the olde and new Testament Christs kingdome to be taken for his true visible Church here in earth so we acknowledg his vniuersall Church kingdome to extend to all such as by a true faith apprehend confesse Christ howsoeuer they be scattered or whersoeuer dispersed vpon the face of the earth Yet both with this interim without true faith obedience can be no true Church no true Christian. THE 2 Article ought all men that will please God to approue THIS Article you say ought al that wil please God to approue How then seek you to please God vvhich continue in Idolatrie are a Minister therof vvhich prophecie in Baall plead for Baall Or how approue you yt when you condempne vs of schisme and heresie because we forsake your false antichristiaÌ„ worship and seek to worship Christ according to his word THE 3 Article if it be taken in this sense that yee dare set vp a societie seperated from all others vvithin this land vvhich make publique profession then I see not when you haue gon by your selues set vp your Officers how you will cleare your selues from Donatisme If theirs were a damnable fact which God did accurse then take heed to yours for if it can be shewed that their heresies are not holden I will chang my minde THE words of our Article being That we seek the fellowship and communion of Christs faithfull obedient seruants cleare vs of all schisme heresie So that if you would convince vs of these crimes it had bene expedient you had first proued your assemblies as they generally stand by the euidence of Gods word to be true churches of Christ rightly entred keeping couenant with the Lord continuing in the order and obedience of his word c and that we preposterously haue departed from you and vncharitably haue forsaken your fellowship But as soone as you shall shew vs such a church emoÌ„g you by the grace of God we wil shew you how free we are of schisme As likewise when you shall lay open our errors vnto vs how farr we wil be froÌ„ heresie In the meane time we will not cease to pray vnto God for you that he will not lay these sinnes vnto your charge which in your ignorant zeale you commyt but in mercy shew you the feareful estate you staÌ„d in and giue you an heart vnfeinedly to repent speedely to turne vnto him THE 4 Article ought all men to practise so far forth as the limitts of their calling doo extend But let it be shewed that euer priuat men did take vpon them to reforme when things were amisse in the Church or that anie of the Prophetts did wil them to take the matter in hand or shew your warrant that you be not priuat men
and is vsed in stead therof vntill Christes discipline may be restored againe vvhich you there say is much to be wished yt being nothing lesse then that which it standeth for by your owne confessions in the preample before your Comminations Yt remayneth then the instrument of those Idoll shepheardes to feede the sheep of distructioÌ„ with the curse of God being sealed vnto your whole Church by your owne mouthes All your Church being generallye founde and wilfullie remayning guiltie in som sinnes there condempned As these publique idolatries others and each one in sundrie perticulars as deceipt wronge whoredome c. We wil not here stand to discusse the follye Poperie of this solemne peice of your worship and administratioÌ„ Penance your Lent fast are grosse to euerie one in whom is anie light YOur Rogations you say are but limiting the boundes of euerie Parish to auoyde contention But we would then knowe of you how it became an act of your Church a part of your Pastors office to be doÌ„ne by the Parson and the parrish Clarcke with the rest of the parishners certaine Psalmes the Letanie Collects being said ouer the Grasse Corne and Cattayle in place of the popish procession Yea there are of your Priestes that wil not faile to reade a Gospel when they come at a crosse way orderly This is somewhat more theÌ„ visiting the bowndes Nether euer thought we that such ciuile actions had beloÌ„ged to the Church Ministrie Christ would not be made a diuider here on earth there are Ciuile iudgmeÌ„t seates appoincted therunto And howsoeuer this publique sollemne worship be commaunded by other iniunctions of your Church and not by your seruice-booke yet according to that booke is this solemne action performed PVrifications you say are aÌ„nexed to make vp our ryming figure For nether your Booke nor doctrine of your Church alloweth anie other purification then in the bloude of the Lambe c. nether yet did the Iewes from whom the Pope as yt should seeme deriued this worship hold anie other purificatioÌ„ theÌ„ in the bloude of that Lambe although they figured that bloude by sundrie rites ceremonies of which sort this maner of bringing weomeÌ„ to the Priest in the Church after child-birth and a certaine nomber of dayes expired was Yet seeing you wil at no hand be said to imitate the Iewes herein you must then take it from the Pope of necessitie for other auâ—thor you can finde none for yt nether anie president or warrant in the TestameÌ„t of Christ The woemans monethlie restraint and seperation from your Church her comming after that iust tyme wympeled vealed with her Gosips Neighbours following her her kneeling downe before and offring vnto the Priest The Priestes Churching praying ouer her blessing her from Sonne and Moone deliuering her in the end to her former vocation shewe somewhat besides giuing of thaÌ„kes But if yt should be admitted only a thanksgiuing We would then knowe of Mr. Giffard or his Ordinarie how this perticular ordinarie though miraculous matter more theÌ„ al other strange actes wonderful and extraordinarie deliuerances both by sea and by land manie and great benefites of the Lord both to men and woemen should be made a publique action of the Church an especial part of the publique worship and administration therof And what warrant they haue in Christes Testament for this But if they there haue none whie other perticular and priuate benefites may not aswel be brought into the Church also and be enioyned by lawe as this and then what end would there be of these deuises and what place to the publique ministrie of Gods worde in the Church Furder we would knowe of them whie these woemen should by lawe be constrained to defer their thanks-giuing vntil the moneth be expired Or if they haue giueÌ„ God thaÌ„kes before priuatly whie they should for his priuate peculiar benefite be compelled to giue thankes publiquely againe for the same or rather to hire the Priest to giue thanks for her againe Of these pointes touching this matter we would craue Mr. Giffards learned and direct answeare in his nextbooke NExt come your Tithes Offringes Mortuaries These you saye are but for maintenance of your Ministrie and not as a matter tyed of necessitie vnto a Priesthode as in the time of the lawe and if they were the error were not fundamental We neuer doubted but that they were the maintenance of your Ministrie but whether the Ministrie of Christ nowe vnder the Gospell may be so maintayned is the question We reade in the Testament that the Ministrie of the Gospel ought to be maintayned by the flockes vnto which they atteÌ„d and that by the free louing contribution of the faithful according to the Ministers necessitie the peoples habilitye from time to time We reade not in the Testament that this contribution ought to be imposed by waye of 1. lawe or 2. bargaine vpon the people As by paying tenthes thirdes 40. or 50. pownds a yeare We finde not in the TestameÌ„t that the Ministers of CHRIST ought to sel their administration as the Sacraments c. Nowe let the Tithes Offrings set vvages of your Ministrie we meane the inferior common ministrie of Parsons Vickars roving Curates or hireling Preachers and not of the Lordlie sort which liue as Princes in Pallaces nor of your Collegiate Priests in their dennes be examined by these rules and tryed whether they haue anie foundation in the worde of God or no. As to their accursed couetousnes odious port-sale not onlie of their owne tougues but of that Gospel ministration which they pretend of your Sacraments Baptisme Supper Châ—rching Marrijng Burijng c. and that to the most prophane and vngodlie for their tithes offrings wage c Mr. Giffard shal neuer be able to hide from God or excuse before men It would require a lardge discourse to set downe how these their tithes accord in euerie perticular vnto the Leuitical decimations And how dangerous nowe it were to reviue and vnpossible to ioyne these lawes vnto CHRISTES Ministrie and Gospel If that priesthode be remoued there must be of necessitie a removing of the lawe They that reviue anie part of the Ceremonial lawe are bownde to the whole lawe and abolished from CHRIST Let Mr. Giffard then looke whether this error be fundamental as he caleth yt being obstinatelie held The Princes commandement wil no more change the nature of this lawe then the commandement of Ezekia and other godlie Kings did before tyme For so might al the lawes of God which Princes should coÌ„mande be transferred from God to men If it be said they vse these Tithes c otherwise so also might the Galatians and Corinthians haue said of such Seremonies as they would haue ioyned to the Gospel NOwe are we to take a viewe of your maner of visiting the sicke housâ—ling them with the Sacrament Your Absolution Dirges and
funeral Sermons ouer for the deade You confesse a maner of visiting the sicke prescribed but you demande of vs where we haue seene it practized by or vrged at their handes which are able and diligent Pastors by these that haue the gouernment of your Church Wee answeare that it sufficeth to be commanded and prescribed by your seruice-booke vnto all your Ministers and Churches to the diligent obseruation wherof all ful Priestes are sworne Furder your Church-Wardens Sidemen are sworne to present all defaultes therin at the Arch-Deacons or CoÌ„missaries Courtes So that no marueyle though this booke be founde in the handes of the most diligent able Priestes reading yt ouer weomeÌ„ at their Churching ouer the maried ouer the sicke ouer y e deade and where not And for Mr. Giffards satisfying we giue him to weite that as learned Priestes as he haue vsed this booke to the visitation of the sicke And nowe we would knowe of him whie these able Priestes should haue more libertie to pray by the the direction of the spirit for and with the sick according to their present estate theÌ„ they are allowed by those that haâ—e the gouernment of your Church in the publique praiers of the whole Church according to the present estate therof To conclude we would knowe of him by what warrant in Gods worde the Church can prescribe enioyne such a forme of visiting c. As to their Absolution which Mr. Giffard so slilye would passe ouer without speakinh anie worde therof Let the Reader vnderstand that nothing can be more popish or blasphemous then yt is where a sacrilegious Priest taketh vpon him by the authoritie committed vnto him to absolue the sicke from all his sinnes Hath anie mortal man power to forgiue sinnes Or is it not the office of God alone Hath the Priest power to forgiue al sinnes such as are not made vnto him What horrible blasphemie is this To him that hath power to forgiue all sinnes to him we may make our prayers and supplications him only may we worship Hath the greatest Minister of the Church any more power to retaine or loose the sinne of the least member then the said member hath to bind or loose his sinne Doth not this rule of our Sauiour aswel extend vnto him as to the least in the Church If thie brother sinne against thee rebuke him and if he repent forgiue him Hath not the Church power to reproue and cast out their Pastor if he so deserue Is not al this binding loosing donne by the worde of God and not by anie power or excellencye of man Hath not the worde of God the like power and effect against sinne in the mouth of the least of Gods seruants as in y e mouth of the greatest Let this Collect then wherbie the Priest in their Leitourgie by the power committed vnto him absolueth the sick of al his sinnes remaine one witnesse amongst manie other of their Poperie and vntil more come of most high blasphemie Mr. GIFFARD taketh verie heinouslie at our handes this phrase of housâ—ing with the Sacrament terming yt a false packing in vs and goeth about to purge his Church therof by shewing how yt denieth al y e wicked blasphemous corrupt doctrines of the Papists touching the Lordes Supper And also denieth that a man is of necessitie to receaue yt at his death Thus euer with his impertinent matters he vvith-draweth and shrinketh from the present question We must therfore still call him backe to the poynte and demaund of him what warrant in CHRISTS Testament their Church hath to institute a priuate Communion or to administer the Supper of the Lord in anie other place theÌ„ where y e church is assembled This if he can doe then indeed we haue faulted in caling yt an Housel But if he can shewe no warrant for this priuate domestical Communion then we must still blame this action as popish superstitious and irregular what doctrines soeuer they hold of the Lordes Supper besides Againe though they exhort and perswade the sick person that this Sacrament is not then of necessitie Yet if he be so superstitious to require it the Priest then is bownde of necessitie to deliuer yt him though there be no more to receaue then they two And what is this but to nourish superstition or to make the Sacrament so deliuered of great value proffit vnto them Thus iugleth toyeth your Church with the holy things of God at her pleasure THe Papistes you say that invented the Purgatorie had also their blasphemous diriges prayers for the deade But we are more then impudent in lying to terme the prayers which you vse at burials such seing your Church denieth the Purgaâ—orie prayers for the dead c. We will not requite you with euil wordes but let the proofe of these matters declare who is a lyer and impudent We would therfore first knowe of you where you haue learned to make the burial of your deade an ecclesiasticall action part of the Pastors office and to make it an especial part of your worship if not of the POPE Then where you learned to burie in your Hallowed Churches and Church-yardes as though you had not fieldes and grounde to bury in with a special Dirige and leitourgie with praiers Singers Ringers Mourners Beades-meÌ„ c if not of the POPE It were too longe to shewe the originall and processe of this superstition with the great aduantage that coÌ„meth to the Priestes therbie It were needles also to shewe howe this your Leitourgie Dirige and prayers are fetched and peiced out of the POPES Portesse It were curious to relate the watching preparing arraying crossing dressing the corps to the graue also the array of the Mourners with all the superstition of the Heraldes the attyre of the Priestes aud Clarckes with their tymes and place when and vvhere to receaue vvhen to rest when to singe to reade to praye when and with what wordes to cast on the first shouel of earth by the hand of the Priest the graue being made easte and west c. Onely this in general we say that all these deuises seing God no where commandeth them in his worde are vayne superstitious and fond as whereby Gods name is highly taken in vayne prophaned and abused yea his holy spirit most impiouslie blasphemed despighted For whilest the whole land is of their Church and they bury all that dye in their Church of their natural death after this maner with this Leitourgie but such as dye of any violent death how christianly soeuer they vouchsalf not thus to burye pronouncing in the Collect they vse whilest earth is casting on that God in his mercy hath taken to himself the Soule of that their deare Brother or Sister departed they therbie iustifie the most wicked gracelesse impenitent vvretches Atheistes blasphemers Idolarours Papists Anabaptists Heretickes Coniurers that dye in their sinnes as though such could haue anie benefite
Idols be placed together If they that worship the Beast his Image may be said to be in the Church of God and their seede outwardly within the couenant TheÌ„ the most abhominable and execrable may be said in this estate members of Christ washed purged with Christ his bloude sanctified and led by his Sprit in assurance of saluation For none can be said to be within the Church but the members of the Church And whomsoeuer we may affirme to be within the Church those so longe as they contynue in that estate we are also to iudge assuredly saued for anie thing to vs reuealed or knowen to the contrarie But if al these be most diuelish heresies directly contrarie to the whole truth of God if they be most execrable blasphemies such as christians abhor but to heare TheÌ„ let the aucthors and spreaders of these doctrines tremble for feareful iudgments remayne them HIs slie distinctioÌ„ or euasion rather wherby he diuideth the Church of Rome into two parts the Pope and his adherents And the nations vnder the tyrannie of the Pope doth rather bewray the thick darcknes of his heart wherin he is held with chaynes vnto iudgment and his giddye amazednes then anie way cleaâ—e him of these heresies and blasphemies aforesaid His first vnderstaÌ„ding of the Church of Rome is the Pope his lawes his worship which hath bene deuised by himself his adherents and al that worship him or receiue his marcke These he saith are the Apostasie seduced to damnation and not the Church of CHRIST otherwise then thus that the Pope the Cardinals and al that worship the Beaâ—t be false christiaÌ„s by profession bredd in the Church and contynuing in yt their seede not excluded from the Couenant What a delphick Orakle is this What strange repugnancie contradiction is here betwixt euerie worde of this his cleare Proposition How can the Pope and his adhereÌ„ts be said to be that Apostasy seduced to damnation not the Church of CHRIST and yet by the same mouth in the same sentence at one and the same instant be pronownced to contynue in the Church and their seede not be excluded from the outward couenant Can they be said to be vtterly departed from the faith from Christ from his Church which is meant by this word Apostasy and yet to remaine in the Church How hangs this together May they be pronounced seduced to damnation and not the Church of Christ and yet both they remayne in the Church and their seede not to be excluded from the seale of the couenant There ought none to remayne in the Church but such as are by outward profession and obedieÌ„ce members of the Church Neither ought the childreÌ„ of anie be baptized in their infancie except one of their Parents be a member of the Church The Pope then his Cardinals and adherents remayning in the Church their seede thus baptized as members seing none ells may either remayne in the Church or be baptized How may they thus be pronounced seduced to damnation and not to be the Church seing they are confessed to be outward members of the Church THe second vnderstanding of the Church of Rome is of al those compaines of people ouer whom the tyraÌ„nie of the Pope hath hertofore extended and doth at this daye Or those things which were giuen by CHRIST which remaine in the same this he saith is not the Church of Rome but the Church of God If by the people and tyrannie he here meane such persons as though their bodies were vnder the cruel haÌ„des of the Pope his Bishops or Prelates yet they kept their bodies soules vndefiled with their idolatries and abhominations and free from their antichristian yoke counterfeite Ministrie and ministration and haue on the other side faithfully kept practized the things which are giueÌ„ by our Sauiour CHRIST in his Testament these people indeed can at no hand be said the Church of Rome these are the true Church and seruants of Christ witnessing fighting through the faith of the Gospel against the Pope the Church of Rome and al their antichristian cleargie and religion But what is this to proue the kingedome of ENGLAND or other nations which haue beene and are defiled with the idolatries and abhominations of the Church of Rome in that estate to be the true Church of God but rather the quite coâ—trarie seing these faithful witnesse against them and haue no fellowship or communion with them The Church of Rome we reade Reuel 17. to be caled that great whore that sitteth vpon manie waters That great Babylon the mother of whoredomes abhominations of the earth with whom the Kings of the earth haue committed fornication and th'inhabitants of the earth haue bene droncke with the wyne of her fornications mingled vnto them in her golden cup. We reade there verse 15. that the waters where the whore sitteth are people multitudes natioÌ„s tongues We reade also that the Beast the false Prophet shal deceaue y e people of the earth and cause theÌ„ to set vp worship the image of the Beast and to slaye al that wil not so doe And cause al both smale and great riche poore free bonde to receaue a marcke in their right haÌ„des or in their fore-heades And that no maÌ„ might buy or sel saue he that had the marcke of the Beast Wee reade furder more That all that receaue the Beastes marcke that worship him or his image shal drincke of the wyne of the wrath of God With what shame then caÌ„ this marcked Priest goe about to proue the Church of Rome to be y â— true Church of God Or those nations which haue coÌ„mitted fornication with her receaued her Ministrie wares abhominations that haue receaued the marcke and erected the image of the Beast and worshipped the Beast and his image in this time of their poperiâ— to be esteemed the true Church of CHRIST His 3 stowte reasons wil not al proue this poynte Though they held many poyntes of true and sounde doctrine yet the many heresies they held those as this man himself in an other place of his booke confesseth Fundamental doe poyson and leauen the whole lumpe There is no heretick that holdeth not some truth As to their holy Sacrament of Baptisme yt being deliuered by a false ministrie after a false maner with new adulterate elements of salt oyle chreame c with their magical incantations signes c and that to opeÌ„ idolators can no waye giue them christendome as this Popish Priest supposeth Or if this Baptisme in the Popish Church be an holy Sacrament true seale of the couenant then would we knowe of Mr. GIFFARD or his learned abettors whie their other Sacrament of the Supper or Altare should not also be held in the same accompt Or how the Church may be said to haue one true holy and auaileable Sacrament to be receaued an other so blasphemous and execrable as is
to be abhorred at the same instant Or what kinde of Couenant this is that hath one true authenticke seale an other forged and adulterate annexed vnto yt Furder also we would knowe if the baptisme of the Church of ROME be a true and holy Sacrament whie they should inhibit any from fetching the same there and how they dare schisme from that Church that hath the Couenant sealed and confirmed vnto them His second reason of some in al kingdomes that hold the faith is aboue shewed not to iustifie but to condemne the Church of ROME But all those that had any communion with them in their worship c in the tyme of Poperie cannot in this estate be said to hold the true faith or to be members of the Church of CHRIST His third reason concerning the infantes is yet as false fonde as the rest For neither are the infants of these idolators by vs to be iudged holy or to receaue baptisme as he himself Pag. 49. confesseth Neither can these infantes anie waie iustifie their wicked Parents or the open idolatries c of the Romish Church Againe although it be most true that the truth was before error and apostasie yet herevpon it followeth not that error apostasie are of in the truth as this man would conclude of Antichrist That because he is said to rise in the Church of God and to sit in the TeÌ„ple of God Therfore the place where he now raigneth rageth is the Church of God But by all these rules of the word of God we finde the Sinagogues that Antichrist hath erected to be of the false malignant Church and the Church of ROME pronownced by God himself to be that great Whore Howsoeuer then Antichrist might haue his original and worcke in his mysterie in the visible Church yet as soone as his wickednes brake out and was apparant he forfeited his place was to be caste fourth as the Angells that sinned were precipitate out of heauen and cast headlong into Hel. Yea those Churches that neglected thus to doe and spared him in the iust iudgmeÌ„t of God lost their happie estate became guiltie of his sinne and partakers of his iudgment and fel away with him So then this phrase of Antichrist his sitting in The Temple of God might be much better vnderstoode then thus grosly to affirme thervpon that Aâ—tichrist now sitteth in the Church of God Whether we vnderstand this his sitting in the Temple of God as in regarde of his original before he was reueled Or in that he should sit where sometimes the true Churches of CHRIST had bene which he should so destroy waste as there should be no shape or steppes of any of them left vpon the earth as it was foretold Math. 24. 29. Reuel 6 14. Or ells of those counterfeight names and titles of the Temple Church of God which the false Church should arrogate and take vnto her self Howsoeuer nothing is more sure then that all these abhominations cannot remaine in the Church of God And in that it is in the same verse said that Antichrist shalbe lifted vp aboue all caled God or that hath veneration This cannot be donne by any Minister in the Church seing euerie soule must be subiect Furder also that he should shewe himself that he is God If this also should be liteâ—ally vnderstoode what blasphemie will not ensue And aswel might it from the same verse be enforced that Antichrist is God as that the place where he raigneth is the Temple of God THus hauing finished hisâ— cardinal reasons of Israel in their schisme Iuda in their apostasie and this vniuersall falling away and corruption in the time of Poperie to prooue the Church of England aswell as these the true Church of God he at length addeth a conclusion in this authenticall assertion of his owne The Church of England in the tyme of Poperie was a member of the vniuersall Church and had not the being of a Church of CHRIST from ROME nor tooke not her beginning of being a Church by separating herself from the Romish Sinagogue c. If he here meane that the Lord had his secret ones chosen and knowen vnto himself in England in the tyme of Poperie which were members of the vniuersall Church vve graunt vvel But what were this to approue the generall estate of England in the tyme of Poperie when they were throughly infected with the apostasie and idolatrie of the Church of ROME to be a visible member of the vniuersal church So that albeit they had not their being a Church from ROME yet they had their not being a Church from ROME when they were defiled with their apostasie and idolatrie Wherfore to haue this conclusion passe yt had beene needfull that Mr. GIFFARD had approued made euident demonstratioÌ„ by the Scriptures that the Church of ENGLAND was rightly gathered vnto and established in that holy faith and order which CHRIST hath left vnto his Church in vniuersall and perticular according to the rules and examples in his Testament Then that in tyme of Poperie they fel not away from this holy faith and order And that nowe they contynue and faithfully walke in the same faith and order This if he had donne then had he proued that which now he beggeth and assumeth Then had he powerfully convinced and stopped the mouthes of al Schismaticks and gaynesayers for euer But with al his learning and labour he hath not enterprised neither euer is able to proue this by Christes Testament The tyme past estate present of their Church of England witnesse the contrarie vnto his face and shew vnto all men how dieplie yt hath bene and still is infected with the Romish idolatries apostasie from the Testament of Christ and in what sort they haue at this daye caste forth the tyrannie yoak of Antichrist with his abhominations idolatries heresies false Worship false Ministerie and false gouernement c. He therfore in steade of approuing his Church by the rules of Christs Testament striueth to proue yt a true Church though yt consist of prophane multitudes neuer as yet rightly gathered vnto or established in the faitâ— and order of Christ though yt haue not Christs Ministrie and Officers which he hath appoynted vnto the Church but that false and antâ—christian Mâ—nâ—strie which the POPE erected vsed and left Though yt be gouerned not by the rules of Christes Testament but by the POPES Courtes Cannons c and such lawes as these Romish Bishopps doe deuise Though yt worship God after a Popish and most idolatrous maner though yt reiect the truth of God and persecute all such as call them vnto or stand for the same And this most barbarous and diuelish assertion he striueth to confirme by the schisme of Israel the apostasie of Iuda and the vniuersall defection and corruption of Poperie Vnto which our finall answere is that if anie of these 3. be iustified and finde mercie before the
sometime of an other minde you must thincke it was before he had so neere friendship with or was imployed in such trustie seruices by his Lord of Londō Who as also his Lords grace must not be driuen to proue euerie thing they affirme that were enough to put young diuines vnto their pontifical mouth is sufficient warrant to all the Churches in England Yet I would of their curtesie they would giue vs their Schismatiks that cannot be so satisfied leaue to doubt though we wil not contēd whether their Caling Consecration and this their Power first came not from the Pope For albeit we haue heard that the offices of Prouincial Bishops Arch Bishops Metropolitanes where almost when this general defection from the gospel so much foretold of began to breake out and appeare longe before the Pope obtayned his Supremacie ouer al other Churches and Ministers Yet might it be that this maner of their caling solemne consecration and lardge irregular power of his Lords Grace Lord Bishops sprong from their vnholie Father the Pope Who when he was inthronized by Sathan had receiued the Dragons high commission to be his Vicare general in earth could not of his fatherhoode but prouide for these his natural childrē and bestowe them in his garrison Cities as his Tetrarches Lieutenants Tribunes with magnificent titles priuiledges power and authoritie to rule in his name and absence euen as his owne engrauen image ouer all Realmes Countries Territories within their Fathers dominiōs For as we haue also crediblie hearde there was neuer a Lorde Arch-Bishop or Lorde Bishop with such titles priuiledges power hearde of before the Pope created them Notwithstanding because wee haue these thinges but bie hearesay and would be lothe to affirme of things so vnsure we wil content our selues to haue proued and shewed the Arch Lord Bisshops to be no true Ministers of the gospel and Church of CHRIST and therfore of themselues antichristian from whom or howsoeuer they rise it skilleth vs not Neither shall it auaile them though they haue broken their faith and schismed from the Pope cast off his yoke renownced his vsurped power and tyrannie when they themselues are rounde to vsurpe retaine and exercise if not the same yet as antichristian enormous a power as the Pope retayning the same Courts Officers Cannons constitutions priuileges ouer all Churches Ministers causes doctrines censures they themselues not being subiect to the censure of anie Church exercising their aucthoritie and commandementes contrarie vnto and aboue all lawes both of God and of their Prince whose Royall Courts and writts are not of power to baile anie one committed by the leaste of their hierarchie assuming vnto themselues both the swordes exercising together and at once both ciuile and ecclesiasticall offices c. How well they aduance the Gospel of CHRIST that blaspheme the same and pronounce the rules ordinances and ministrie therof intollerable and persecute all such as either speake against them or for yt Let the tyrannous hauocke they make in the common wealth of poore christians in the prisons of the land shewe How wel by the liuelie worde they cut downe all idolatrie heresies and popish abhominations let the seruice-booke and publick worship of their Churche shewe Which whilest with a stronge hande they obtrude vpon euerie conscience as also impose vpon the Church is not this to tyrannize and exercise a Lordship ouer the faith and conscience Or to speake as he doth is this nothing but to execute the external discipline to make and impose a newe Leitourgie for the whole administration of the Church Or is it likelie that this marcked Minister of ANTICHRIST knewe what the outward gouernment of CHRIST in his Church meaneth that saith yt concerneth not the conscience Is there anie more dreadful or reuerend action on earth amongst men then the iudgmentes of CHRIST in his Church which are al most holie and true Or doe not these concerne the conscience Doth not euerie action of which there are such certaine lawes set by CHRIST himself nearelie concerne the conscience to doe it according to the same when the least abuse neglect or swaruing from the rule euen in the least circumstance that is enioyned in the least censure doth so deface the action is so offensiue preiudicial do not those actions which are donne for the saluation of soules that are said to binde in heauen not concerne the conscience Or doe not those rules which are giuen for the direction and preseruation of the publick communion of the whole Church and priuate conuersation of euerie member therof without the obseruation of which rules there can be no order no dutie either publick or priuate no holie walking in anie caling kept concerne the conscience Except Mr. Giffard can imagine such a Congregation and such members therof as either neuer sinne and so need no watching ouer admonition reproof Or ells such a Church and members therof as make no conscience of anie thing as when they sinne will not amend wil not heare admonition or suffer reproof which is the meanes giuen of God to bring them to amendement Yet Mr. Giffard maketh this holie outward gouernment of CHRIST ouer and in his Church not to concerne the conscience the myserable diuines of this age not to be of necessitie to the beeing and preseruation of a Church the blasphemous Bisshops of this land not to be a thing tollerable with manie other reprochfull blasphemies of the same which are not of anie christian almost to be hearde or repeated much lesse pronounced and defended These husbandmen are they that caste the Sonne and heyre out of the vineyarde that wil not haue him reigne ouer them but take the regiment into their owne hands deuising and erecting a newe forme of gouernement vnto the Church as these their popish Courtes Cannons Customes Officers declare and persecuting with al hostility and tyranny all such as pleade for Christes gouernement and wil not subiect their bodies and soules vnto their antichristian yoke But yet for all this they exercise no Lordship ouer the faith and conscience though they vsurpe exercise and impose this strange ministrie ministration and gouernement in and ouer the Church All this saith Mr. Giffard is but th'administration of exernall discipline and concerneth not the conscience especiallie if it be seared with a whote Iron as Mr. Giffard is Wherfore we doe impudentlie and wickedlie sclander when wee therfore conclude that the Bishops be antichristian and whosoeuer is ordayned by them hath his ministrie from Antichrist and from the Deuil What kinde of ministrie your Lord Bishops exercise and aucthoritie they vsurpe by that which is alreadie written the reader may iudge or at leaste hath a direct way shewed furder to examine What kinde of rule they keepe or as you call it discipline they execute remaineth to be tryed in the fourth principal transgression Where if you make not a better defence for it then you haue donne for their
worde of affirmatioÌ„ neuer a place of scripture he proueth in lesse then one page of his booke He affirmeth their names to be Ministers of the Gospell Pastors and Teachers That the names of Parsons Vicares are not to make any distinction of the ministrie but of the maintenance annexed to the same That the Offices they beare are to teach instruct their flockes by the wholesome worde of God to administer the sacramentes and to make publick prayers These he is sure are prescribed in CHRISTES Testament and if our eye were not malignant we might espie them there THAT these names offices of Pastor Teacher with this administration spoken of are in CHRISTS Testament we neuer doubted or made question but now whether these Parsons Vicares Curaâ—es Hired Preachers carie trulie haue and execute the names offfices and functions of these christian Pastors Teachers all the doubt is And more then Mr. GIFFARD his bare worde we as yet haue not to assure vs therof although we haue even with importunitie begged and vrged him or any of his fellowes either directly to approue their ministrie by the rules of CHRISTS Testament in their Office Entrance and Administration Or ells to prooue vnto vs by the worde of God that such Offices Entrance vnto and Administration in their offices is not now necessarie and of necessitie in the Church of CHRIST but that the Prince whose honorable name they ouer much abuse to the patronizing of all their abhominations or rather the POPE to whose kingdome this antichristian ministrie serued hath power to erect a newe other ministrie in office entrance and administratioÌ„ vnto the Church then that of Christes Testament In al which if this ministrie of England cannot by th'expresse rules of the word be iustified al the powers in earth or Hel cannot make them the true Ministers of the Gospel For other ministrie offices of y e gospel is not giueÌ„ or to be giueÌ„ vnto the Church then those CHRIST hath instituted in his TestameÌ„t Neither may any other Entrance or Administration be ioyned to that Ministrie those offices then is in CHRISTS Testament appoynted If therfore we shew that these Ministers haue not those offices that entrance or administratioÌ„ mentioned in Christes Testament it shal be enough to shew them conterfeite strange and antichristian First then by Mr. Giffâ— his leaue we must a litle insiste euen vpon these strange names of Parson Vicare which were giueÌ„ by their first founders creators at the erection of their ministrie offices and are not read of in all the booke of God Neither are any of those names which our Sauiour Christ hath giuen knyt vnto his ministrie for y e distinguishing expressing of their seueral offices and therfore caÌ„ at no hand belong vnto the ministri of the Gospel Neither may any mortal man be so presumptions to giue other names denominations vnto his reuerend ministrie holie offices then the Lord of the house himself hath giuen Neither may or will the true Ministers of Christ carye any other names or titles as in regarde of their ministri or office then Christ hath giuen to their ministrie office But Mr. Giff. denieth these names to make any distinctioÌ„ of their ministri but only of y e state of maintenaÌ„ce annexed vnto the same Let vs theÌ„ aske him one question what difference is there betwixt the Arch and Lord Bishops and the parish Parsons and Vicares of the Church of ENGLAND in respect of their ministrie if these names be not giuen to put difference betwixt and distinction of theâ— office ministrie I trust he will not say these Lord Bishops Parsons haue al one office ministrie in their Church I belieue his Ordinarie wil hardly agree to him in this poynte Let him finde therfore a newe distinction to help this matter Againe we could say to M. Giffard that these names of Parsons and Vicares do not only distinguish their ministrie from their Lord Bishops Arch-Deacons Deanes c but yet maketh a distinction euen amongst themselues betwixt them such of their other rouing Ministers which haue no certaine flocke or chardge but as sone as they are made Ministers vnto and of any one certaine flock then take they forthwith their denominatioÌ„ of that flocke or towne as the Bishops doe of the greate Cities and are then not before called Parsons or Vicares of such a Towne To conclude these names of Parson Vicare being distinct names and hauing distinct liuings appropriate vnto them belonging also to one the same church or Towne and being giuen to two diuers men so possessed at one and the same tyme cannot but belong to two diuers offices of their Church Except two meÌ„ may also haue execute one the same office at the same instant as wel as one man may execute two or moe diuers offices of their Church at one instant But sure these Paradoxes are so inaudible incredible yea so impossible in the Church of CHRIST as I see not how all Mr. Giffard his logique and learning can reconcile them to the Testament of CHRIST But to come to the offices of these Parsons Vicares Mr. Giff saith if we may belieue him they are Pastors Teachers yet setteth vs not downe who be the Pastors who be the Teachers of their Church It should seeme by his speach that these two the Parson and Vicare are one office namely Pastors and that such hireling Predicantes as himself are the Teachers of this Church of England Let vs first consider of their Pastors by comparing them to the Pastors office The true christian Pastor is placed of God in his house his church as a Steward both to diuide the portion and to ouersee take chardge looke to the order gouernement of that Church wherof he is chosen made a Minister of al the publicke actions therof togither with the other Elders But these Parsons by vertue of their office ministrie are not bounde to labour in the worde otherwiâ—e then to preach 4. sermons in the yeere either by himself or by his substitute and that not by law except his benefice exceede a certaine annual somme in the Queenes booke Otherwise they are but bounde to reade the seruice preâ—cribed in the common booke at such tymes and tides as is there inioyned to weare the Priestes attire to reade iniunctions and homelies c. Neither are they permitted or by vertue of their office may intermeddle with the ouersight order and gouernement of that flocke wherof they are Parsons CHRIST nowe in his Church hath instituted no ecclesiasticall office aboue the Pastors office Neither may anie true christian Pastor stand or exercise his office vnder anie such false ecclesiasticall office as CHRIST hath not instituted But there are sondrie offices in the Church of England aboue the Parsons office Vnto which superior offices
al these Parsons stand subiect hauinge sworne their Canonical obedience to their Courtes Cannons commaÌ„dements to their sommance censure controlement for al their actions ministrie conversation to be made Ministers deposed from their ministrie silenced sequestred suspended by them The true christian Pastor as by vertue of his office intangleth not himself neither intermedleth with â—iuile actions and affayres But these parrish Parsons especialie these of the Countrie are busied and almost wholly entangled with renting tithing prowling their Parrishners whether faithfull or vnfaithfull riche or poore Widowes or Oâ—phanes they marrie they burie c by vertue of their office and are â—o all outwarde seeming and iudgment rather Rieues and Bayliffes then Ministers of the Gospel Yea if it be true which some writers of no smale accompt both olde and new haue written of them these parrish Parsons were at the first deuised and brought in to serue the Metropolitanes in the offices of Rieues and Bayliffs to gather vp their rents c. Againe the true christian Pastors office cannot be possessed by anie ciuiâ—e person But the parrish Parsons office may be and often is bestowed vpon Ciâ—ilians Phisâ—â—ons who if they weare the Priestes weedes inioyned It sufficeth Not here meaning or speaking of impropriatioâ—s which haue no office and chardge of anie Ministrie yt being transferred to a Vicare endoâ—ed Moreouer the christian Pastors office caÌ„not be kept or executed by a man absent or by anie other in that Congregation wherof he is chosen then by the elect of that Congregation But the Parrish Parsons office may be kept by a man absent executed by an Attourney or Curaeie Finnaly euerie true christian Pastor is by that his officie a Bishop But no Parrish Parson is by vertue of that his office a Bishop Therfore and for al these reasons abouesayd the parrish Parsons office can in no iuste intendement be held the true christian Pastors office NOwe let vs procede to their entrance this being first a position perpetual That euerie true Minister of the Churche must not onlie be caled to a true office but must haue a true right caling vnto that his office otherwise he is no true Minister but an vsurper an intruder a theife a murderer Euerie true Minister then by the rules of the worde ought to be thus caled Euerie perticular Congregation being a faithfull flocke destitute of some Minister for example of a Pastor ought to make choice of some one faithful christian of whose vertues knowledge iudgment fitnes and conversation according to the rules in that behalf prescribed they haue assured proofe and experience in some christian Congregation or other where he hath liued Such a one the whole Congregation being gathered together in the name of God with fasting prayer for the especial assistance of his holy spirite to be directed to that person whom the Loâ—de hath made meete and appointed vnto them for that high chardge and Ministrie In which Election euerie perticular member of the said Congregation hath his peculiar interest of assent or dissent shewing his reasons of dissent in reuerent maner not disturbing the holie and peaceable order of the Church Whose exceptions and reasons are to be considered of and compared to the rules of the worde if they be founde peremptorie and true As the partie to be of no founde iudgment in the faith of no sufficient knowledge in the scriptures a drunckarde a smiter coveteous one that ruleth not wel his owne house wife children theÌ„ yeildeth the whole Church to their reasons or rather to the word of God But if their exceptions be vnsufficient or vntrue then procedeth and standâ—th their Election and the persons that take them are publicklie reprouâ—d according to their offence This choice thus made accepted and determined the elect is to be publicklie ordayned and receiued in and of the same CongregatioÌ„ wherof and whervnto he is chosen If there be an Eldership in that CongregatioÌ„ by them as the most meete instruments with fasting prayer exhortations c if not then by the help of the Elders of some other faithful Congregation one Churche being to help and assist an other in these affaires But if the defection and apostasie be so generall as there be not anie where anie true Elders to be founde or conveniently to be had yet then hath the Church that hath power and commandemeÌ„t to chuse and to vse Ministers yea that only hath that most high and great spirituall power of our Lorde Iesus Christ vpon earth committed vnto their handes power also to ordaine their Ministers by the most fit members and meanes they haue For the Eldership doth not add more power but more helpe and seruice to the Church in this action Neither doth this action which is but a publishing of that former contract and agreement betwixt the whole Church and these elect the Church giuing the elect receiuing these offices as by the commandement of God with mutuall couenant and vowe each to other in al dueties belonge to the Elders onlie as separate from the Church but to the Elders as the most fit members and instruments of the Churche to doe yt for and in the Churche Otherwise when the true ministrie ceased as in the generall apostasie they could neuer againe be recouered in the Church because they cannot haue this ordination of true christian Elders and so must the ministrie sacraments and ordinances of Christes Testament cease for euer and the true established Churche neuer be seene againe vpon earth Vnlesse with the Papistes they â—il make a personal successioÌ„ of Ministers in some place euer since the Apostles tyme. Or with Mr. Giffard make a true publick ministrie sacrameÌ„ts c in the Church of Rome in the diepest apostasie Which yet of al other is the most absurd PropositioÌ„ that euer I suppose was vttered by anie man or published and allowed by anie Churche contrarie to al the rules of Gods worde and eueÌ„ to it self For how can there be by anie reasonable man immagined or seene publicke apostasie and publick faith in the same estate at one and the same instant Likewise if of necessity the ordinatioÌ„ must always be donne by a christian Presbutrie or Eldership we woulde then knowe of them by what Elders Mr. Luther Mr. Caâ—uine or our Englishe Bishopps in K. EDVVARDES daies were ordayned Other Elders then of the Popish Churche there were not then to be founde Now these are sure groundes that cannot be doubted of The true ministrie of Christ doth not belonge vnto and may execute no ministrie in the false Churche Neither yet hath the execrable ministrie of the false Church anie thing to doe to ordaine the true ministrie of CHRISTES Churche neither is their Ordination auaileable If then the Churche of Rome and the ministrie therof were false and antichristian then cannot the ministrie of these men which was then in that estate giuen and
quite remooued out of the Church and abolished The Prelates that holde yt arbitrable at Princes pleasures according to the variable estate of tymes and Countries holde fast that popish inordinate vsurped power which they haue gotten into their handes and therbie incarcerate silence sequeâ—ter depose al such of the contrarie faction as speake against their power and present gouernment with al possible hostilitie yet al this deadlie debate M r. G. couereth in a worde calling it but a questioÌ„ about the outward forme of discipline As also hideth all the other most heynouse and detestable enormities that arise and flowe from their monstruous antichristian gouernment vnder the same title of outward forme of discipline For both sides he saith doe agree in the matter That CHRIST hath left a power to his Churche to chuse to trye and to ordaine Pastors and Teachers And likewise that he hath giuen the power of admonition suspension excommunicatioÌ„ Onlie here is the difference that th'one side woulde haue this power exercised by Presbiteries of Pastors Teachers Elders as in the Apostles tyme The other hold it the more salf and quiet waye to commit this power to the handes of the Bishop Which side holdeth the truth you shall hereafter knowe M r. Giffardâ— minde when the battell is fought he wil then tell you of which side he wilbe Till then he wil take the Bisshops side against the Brownists tooth nayle and affirme their gouernment to be the holie gouernment of Christ and the defaultes therof not such as make yt to become antichristian or a yoke of bondage as the Brownist with open throte exclaymeth And for the other side wherof he sometyme was they howsoeuer they woulde haue yt remoued yet are far from the Brownistes opinioÌ„ for they for the peace of the Church had rather staÌ„d vnder yt then vnder Christs crosse by witnessing against yt Concerning the opinions of both these sides for the execution of this discipline they speake of wee haue alreadie shewed both sides to erre and fully refuted their seueral opinions by the way in the SECOND PRINCIPAL TRANSGRESSION where we haue declared that th'execution of the ceÌ„sures power of the Church belongeth neither to such a sequestred withdrawen presbiterie Nor yet to anie one maÌ„ but vnto the whole Churchioyntlie c. We haue also in that Second Transgression shewed the forgerie of their idol Suspension and of the popish ExcommunicatioÌ„ of these Bishops And how the Church of England hath no power to excoÌ„municate any person for any sinne or heresie whatsoeuer but only abuse this most high iudgment of God vpon earth to their filthie lucre and pompe excommunicating for nothing but for contempt of their antichristiaÌ„ Courtes Or for not paying their rauenous fees and extortions as also absoluing them for money when they please Whervpon whilest they want this power of excommunication it followeth that admonitions were vayne fruictlesse amongst them wheÌ„ they caÌ„not haue their due power processe and effect sondrie of them also as these Bishops the whole rabble of their false hierarchiâ— and Priestes being incorrigible such as wilbe subiect to no censure neither receiue admonitioÌ„ but be more readie to smite blaspheme such as reproue them Moreouer in y e THIRD PRINCIPAL TRANSGRESSION we haue shewed how their Churches haue no power in themselues to elect or ordaine them any Ministers but are inforced to receiue them from the Patrone the Bishop whether they will or no. Where we haue also set downe the counterfeight and false maner of the ordination and institution of their Ministers or Priestes Whereby euidentlie appeareth what kinde of gouernmeÌ„t this their discipline of the Church of England is So that here remayneth the lesse to be spokeÌ„ of this poyncte the chief matters being alreadie handled Onlie here we wil a litle entreate of this controuersie betwixt these Bishops and Priestes about their forme of Discipline and somwhat generallie of their Courtes in fewe wordes and so put an end to this poyncte THis controuersie M r. G. affirmeth to be about the forme not about y e matter of discipline wherin both sides agree That Christ hath lefte a power to his Church c. Doth not M r. G. deserue high coÌ„mandations that with one logicall distinction can both defend all the Popes hierarchie Courtes Cannons c. and make also these two opposite factions the Bishops Priestes to agree in matter So that now belike al this long bitter hostilitie contention and controuersie amongst them hath bene about no matter And then wil not this rare distinctioÌ„ hide or excuse the blame of either partie Againe saue that we wil haue no strife about inanitie of wordes we alwaise tooke the forme to haue giueÌ„ the beeing to the thing and to haue bene so principal a parte therof as yt might neuer be seuered from the same howsoeuer in vvay of discourse the forme and the matter may for argument sake be distinguished For euen common sense teacheth that no man or creature may be separate from their peculiar and natural forme or shape Neither anie member of them from that forme place and office which God hath giuen appoyncted to that member But al meÌ„ hould yt monstruous to haue a mixte or false shape How much more impossible intollerable were it but to admit anie other forme or to change that forme which God hath giueÌ„ apoincted to anie actioÌ„ of the Church Either that forme which God hath giuen prescribed is no true and right forme Or ells those actions without that true and right forme cannot be said those true actions of the Churche Howe monstruous then is their presumption that dare vndertake to change yea to abrogate those formes rules ordinances that Christ hath prescribed to his Church in his Testament Howe shamelesse and blasphemouse their â—mpudeÌ„cie that dare pronownce this adulterate moÌ„struous discipline of their Church the same in matter and effect with that gouernment Christ hath prescribed Is not this of the one sort to sit in the Temple of God as God to change the ordinances c Is it not in the other with the false Prophet to dawbe and vphold the throne of the Beast If God vnto MOSES prescribed an exact paterne in al thinges that belonged to that Tabernacle euen to the least pinne tape hooke vtilence with the due forme shape measure waight place tyme vâ—e c and left nothing to his wil or discreatioÌ„ but his praise was that he was founde faithful in al the Lordes house and had made and donne all thinges according to the paterne shewed him in the mounetaine If that worde spoken by Angels was made firme and euerie transgression and disobedience receiued iust retributioÌ„ of reward How shal they escape and where shal they stand that neglect yea reiect that heauenlie arch-type and onlie perfect paterne of CHRISTES Testament deliuered by the holie Ghost to the Apostles by the Apostles to the Churches confirmed
hatched brought vs foorth this worthie reason to rest vpon If the execution of discipline by Bishops be the yoke of Antichrist and if all the Churches vvhich doe stand vnder the same doe vvorship the Beast and be not christians it must needes follow that such as did euer execute this power were Antichristes and no children of GOD at that time or before thei repented But by your owne confession manie of them died blessed Martyres I conclude therfore That the Brownistes cannot but vvith heresies and most heinous iniurie inordinate dealing condemne a Church as quite diuourced separate from CHRIST for such corruptions imperfections in Gods vvorship as be not fundamentall nor destroy the substance for that wicked men come vvith the godly to the publick exercises of religion for some wantes in calling ordaining Ministers and in ecclesiastical discipline BElike Mr. GIF is hard driuē when this old popish reason alreadie by vs answeared and now by him not ouer wel repayred is fayne to become his cheif corner stone to approue this Church in all these chardges and the only reason he can bring for the Hierarchie regiment of the Church of England By this reason his holie Father the POPE was wonte to defend his triple Crowne apostaticall Chaire Because in the same haue sit manie godly Bishops blessed-Martyres c so that if the office power and dignitie of his Popedome be antichristiā then must all these godly learned men that haue executed the same needes be Antichrists and not true members of CHRIST vntill they repent But they neuer were founde to haue repented these thinges yet are confessed by al that knewe them in that age to be learned godly Therfore M r. G. and all this horned Cleargie and Lordly hierarchie of England cannot without schisme reuoult from without heresie pronownce this holie Sea office antichristian c. Let M r. G. now he seeth the fordge issue bind or loose followe or leaue this argument at his owne pleasure perill If he suppose to escape by shewing discrepance betwixt these godly predecessors vngodly successors in manie circumstances and vertues And so thinck this reason wil not presse him half so sore as it doth vs yet let him consider though I will not be the POPES aduocate that they here reason of the same office and not of the same circumstāces and that these godly predecessors executed the self same office with these their bad successors Yea so might th'example be put as yt should be without anie great difference in circumstance also And as to the difference betwixt the persons of the one and of the other if that may be a solution to this argument we shall not greatly need to feare finding this viperous generation these idle proude wordlie fleshlie persecuting blasphemous Prelates nothing so like these their godly predecessors these Martyres in laboures humilitie bowntie spiritual holie conuersation faith patience loue of the truth of the Sainctes of CHRIST c as they are in that which is euill in these antichristian titles offices Courtes iurisdiction reuenues pompe c. Which as we before said vnto you so say we againe that no men or Angels can iustifie where Gods worde condemneth though all the Martyres in the worlde should dye in and for them We may not be leed or drawen by the examples persons of men how good soeuer from one iote of Gods reueiled truth The best men we see doe erre and sinne there neuer was or shalbe anie man that erreth and sinneth not in manie thinges But should we because good men haue donne euill and erred therfore iustifie sinne and error That were high presumption greiuouslie to tempt God and to abuse the holie Scriptures which recorde not mens faultes to that end What sinne or error might not so by th'example of some good man or Church be iustified yet these are M r. GIFF. his best reasons for his Church ministrie c. and here his only reason to approue the gouernment of these Bishops and hierarchie But now as we here iustifie allowe not any sinne by the examples persons of the godly so condemne we not these godly mens persons for sinne error vntil obstinacie be ioyned thervnto which M r. GIFF. cannot shew in these holie Martyres And therfore we denie the consequent of his Maior or first Proposition That because the office iurisdiction they executed were Antichristian therfore the men that exercised them were Antichristes and not children of God We may vtterly condemne the sinne and yet not so peremptorily condemne the sinner It is a sure position that euerie sinne is of the Deuil yet is there no consequence therof that euerie one that sinneth is of the Deuil we see no such necessitie as M r. G. would persuade of that matter The godly may sinne of ignorance of negligence of fraylety yet not thervpon vntill obstinacie be added vnto sinne cease to be christians These godly Martyres so lately escaped out of that smokie fornace of the popish Church could not so clearely discerne and sodenly enter into the heauenly beautiful order of a true established Church It is more thē one dayes worcke to gather to plante and establish a Church aright much more so manie thowsand seuerall Churches as are supposed in this land It can be no wonder that those godly men being so vnexpert and vnexercised in his heauenly worcke neuer hauing liued in seene or hearde of any orderly cōmunion of Saīnctes anie true established Church vpon earth of so many hundreth yeeres euer since the general defection vnder Antichrist so much foretold of in the Scriptures no maruaile I say if they erred in setting vp the frame But what then should we therfore iustifie or persist in their errors especially should we reiect the true paterne of CHRISTS Testamēt which reproueth our workes and sheweth vs a better course should we not suffer our worckes to burne after the maner of these deceitful workmen of these tymes God forbid For thē should we receaue their reward perish with our worckes Now to the second propositiō of this argument we haue alreadie expressed our minde concerning the suffringes faith and death of these Martyres We finde them obstinatly to haue resisted no part of Gods worde or truth he gaue them sight of at anie tyme but to haue bene verie faithfull constant euen vnto bandes death in that truth they were come vnto Furder we doubt not but they truly repented them of al their sinnes knowen and faithfully laid hold of Gods mercie in Christ Iesus for al their secrete vnknowen sinnes Gods grace we are assured is so much greater then all our sinnes as the sea is greater then one dropp of water Therefore we doubt not of their happie and blessed estate all their sinnes these false offices ministrie which they executed in their ignorance amōgst the rest being forgiue them Th'example then errors of these
Church whereof they were Ministers And yet to stop his mouth farder if the Martyres and first witnesses had a true ministrie such also haue sondrie of vs whom he termeth Brownistes c yea by so much a better as he holdeth the ministrie of the Churche of England better then the ministrie of the Church of Rome Yea if M r. G. his owne ministrie be good such the same haue diuers of vs had and are as yet vndisgraded otherwise then by vnfaigned repentance of so detestable a Ministrie So that if they lost not their ministrie by forsaking the Churche they receaued it of and exercised it in why shoulde M r. G. be so seuere to iudge others that may make the same plea If they saye they left not the Church of Rome but the corruptiōs therof what should let vs to alleadge the same nowe against them if we would stand vpon those shiftes doublings But we vse no such coloured excuses neither relye vpon mens persons and doinges wee haue the expresse commandement of God for our warrant of al those thinges we doe or refuse to doe and stand to make proofe tryal therof by the same word gladly submitting our selues al our actions and whole faith vnto this tryal Although also we haue and vse th'examples and practize of these faithful that first came out of the popish Churche and enterprised the erection and practize of Christes Ministrie ordinances amongst themselues according to that measure of knowledge God gaue them Whose errors though wee shunne neither will mainetayne our owne when they shalbe shewed vs cleauing onlie to the true paterne of Gods word yet make we their presidēt a bulwark for vs against these cauilling enimies Who must for doing these thinges either condemne them and so themselues and their whole Church and doings with them Or ells with no shame or iustice condemne vs of heresie schisme sectes presumption intrusion rebellion c for doing the self same thinges they did or at the least professed to doe yea for doing them better nearer the true paterne then they did If they in this doing neither intruded without caling nor presumed aboue their caling Why are we iudged for this doing to doe both yea for this saying to haue put an halter about our neckes Doth not this our hange-man executioner that with ioye speaketh of the chaynes and fetters that these bloodie Bishopps lay vpon the faithful seruantes of Christ for leauing their antichristian yoke and seking Christs heauenlie gouernment put with the same hande and trise the halter about these godlie Martyres neckes yea about his owne and his Lorde Bishops neckes and al the Ministers neckes of the land that haue no other defence for their vngodly ministry and doings then the erroneous practize of these godly Martyres who as hath bene proued were but priuate men at their first cōming out of popery erection of these Churches as we now be Mr. GIFF. had not best shew vs manie of these trickes of legier du main lest he ensnarrle choke himself with the same halter he would cast about our neckes and kil himself his whole Church with that sharpe weapon wherwith he would kill vs at once in his furious moode For sure if it be vnlawful for priuate men to assemble and in this estate to proceede to the election ordination of Ministers then by the same lawe was it vnlawful for them so to doe Then are all these Bishops Ministers priuate men vsurpers no more true Ministers then such a one as the mutinous prentices should make Maior were a true Maior Yea let me goe furder if the Church consisting of priuate men may not in this estate erect and ordaine Christes true ministrie amongst them then is there no true ministri vpon earth neither euer can be vntil God raise vp new Apostles and Euangelistes and buildeth a new Church vpon a new foundation which shalbe when vve haue a newe Christ. And then Mr. G. shal haue his dreame For he saith that vvhen God vvill haue his vvorke donne he vvill raise vp extraordinarie workemen thervnto But where read Mr. G. this positiō if not amongst the Anabaptistes Sure he neuer founde it in the new Testament vvhere vve haue the minde of Christ a perfect foundation an accompleat ministrie vntil Christes comming So that we neede not to say in our heartes who shall ascend vp to heauen for vs or descend from heauen vnto vs or goe ouer the sea for vs to bring or teach vs the Commandement of our God when the worde is so neare vs euen in our mouthes and in our heartes for to doe yt Therfore when Mr. G. shall make his proofe of this assertion And shew his warrant and promise that God will now raise vp to his Church extraordinarie worckmen and that til then no priuate men ought to proceede to the choice and ordination of Ministers but to tarye and expect this promise of the Lorde Then surelie we will acknowledge him no false Prophet no Anabaptisticall dreamer and that we haue presumed ouer far vpon the Lordes authoritie and commandement giuen to his Church vnto the worldes end to chuse and ordaine his ministerie and to practize amongst them whatsoeuer he hath commanded But nowe because this were to bring Christ from aboue and againe from the deade because also we haue Gods direct commandement to goe out of the false Church being come out to assemble and ioyne together and being so ioyned to proceede to the erection of his ministrie and practize of his ordinances and haue his aucthoritie promise of blessing to these proceedings because we haue the practize of Christes Apostles in planting the primatiue Churches and now latelie th'examples of such as endeuored to build this Church they liue in we dare not by any vayne hope or threates of this false Prophet be drawen to neglect so great saluation to continue either in apostasie or disorder and to transgresse or neglect the Lordes commaundement THe next obiection against vs is drawen from an especiall obseruation in our first Article where we confessed the vniversal Church and kingdome of CHRIST to extend to all such as by true faith apprehend and confesse CHRIST IESVS howsoeuer they be skattered and wheresoeuer dispersed vpon the face of the whole earth Hence Mr. GIFF. concludeth that seing the faithfull may be in state of grace and haue CHRIST their Kinge though they liue not vnder that gouernment order that CHRIST hath established in and to his Church therfore it is not necessarie for priuate men to set yt vp Sure this is a weake argument and not worth half the noting obseruation he hath made of yt we must for all this denie yt and finde no more consequent then if he had therfore concluded that the communion of Sainctes the ministrie and ecclesiasticall gouernment of CHRIST are not to be sought of the faithfull because some faithfull may be saued that liue not in an
established church vizt such as are in captiuitie sicknes age or in such times place as they knowe not where to finde one day of the Sonne of man He might aswell conclude that because God is able doth saue some in the false Church Therfore priuate meÌ„ ought not to forsake the false Church God is able to saue some in dispertion out of the established Church Therfore priuate men ought not to seek the established Church THe last greatest matter is that we runne before the Princes commandement whose dutie it is to reforme Churches Priuate men might not so much as sweepe them much-lesse build them For this is to erect a state gouernmeÌ„t because the power of the Church is both publicke greate We haue aboue shewed that y e Church hath Gods coÌ„mandement authoritie alwaies to erect Christes ministri gouernment amongst them That the Church in this estate consisteth only of of priuate men neither are there anie true Ministers anie where to be found vpon the earth neither any extraordinarie Ministers to be looked for seing they are long since ceased Therfore the Church in this estate consisting only of priuate men ought to erect this ministerie and gouernment ells should they also cease and neuer be had againe vpon the earth and so should there neuer be any established Church ministrie Sacramentes c agayne in this world yet here must be noted by the way that Mr. G. runneth too much vpoÌ„ and wresteth too far these wordes priuate men when we speake of the Church consisting only of priuate men Now vnto his crimination the Church hauing this coÌ„mandement aucthoritie giuen of God vnto the worldes end we before shewed him that no Prince might take it away or without great wronge hinder them from the performance hereof yea that the seruantes of God ought not to be staied from doing the coÌ„mandements of God vpon anie restrainte or persecution of any mortall man whosoeuer For this we alleadged the examples and practize of the Apostles who then had bene guiltie of the same disobedience rebellion if Princes in this busines had bene to be stayed for or their restrainte had bene a sufficent let yea that persecution and the crosse of Christ were vtterly abolished if the Church and faithfull were not to proceede in their dueties vntill Princes giue leaue We shewed also that the obedience and practize of Gods will was no disobedience or preiâ—dize to the Prince That we attempted nothing beyonde our calling neither transgressed in our calling We medled not with the reformation of anie publick abuse either in the common wealth or in their Church otherwise then by prayers vnto God and godly exhortation We only according vnto Gods commandement refrained from their idolatrie and other publicke euils and assembled together in all holy and peaceable maner to worship the Lord our God and to ioyne our selues together in the faith vnto mutual duties This we shewed to be the duetie of euerie priuate man that would be saued to leaue the false Church and to seeke the true Church And being thus assembled ioyned in the faith we shewed it to be their dutie together to seeke that ministrie and gouernment which Christ hath left vnto his Church and for the Church to erect the same VNto the Apostles proceeding without the licence of Princes he maketh a double answere One in respect of the persons of the Apostles that they were furnished with a special coÌ„mission and authoritie from CHRIST himself to set vp his kingdome which commission and power the Pastors and Teachers successiuely receiued deliuered ouer to others so that priuate men may not haue this power The other in respect of those Princes in the Apostles tyme which were all heathen and therfore it had bene bootlesse to sue to them But where there is a christian Prince that holdeth the fundamentall poynctes of the christian faith though otherwise this christian Prince doe erre in some matters of doctrine or touching the rules of discipline euerie godly priuate man is to keepe a good conscience not breaking the vnitie and peace of the Church But not to take publicke authoritie to reforme THese instances of the persons of the Apostles and Princes as they are litle to the purpose so doe they him as litle good If the commandement of God were sufficient warrant to the Apostles to doe their worke though al the Princes of the world resisted then must the commandement of the same God be of the same effect to all other instrumentes whom it pleaseth the Lorde to vse in their callings to his seruice also though all the Princes in the world should withstand and forbid the same For neither dignitie of the persons that are vsed make the commandement of God of more authoritie or necessitie to be donne neither yet the greatnes or the goodnes of the persons that withstand this commandement of God make yt of lesse authoritie or necessitie Onlie let the seruantes of God be sure to haue the commaundement and calling of their God for that they doe and then they neede not feare the Powers that are placed of of God for the praise and not for the punishment of the good Our question then is not whether priuate men may doe that which is not their dutie to which they haue no commanndement as this accuser surmizeth to bring vs into danger and hatred But whether they may not doe that which God commanndeth them within the limites of their caling As to forâ—ake idolatrie and the false Church to seke the true worship of God in the true Church though all the Princes of the world whether belieuers or infidels should forbid the same And this we affirme to be the duetie of euerie perticular person whosoeuer forbid We say not now that priuate men may reforme the false Church abolish publick idolatrie or depose a false ministrie that the Kinge setteth vpp This were to breake the boundess of their calling to intrude vpon the Princes office and great cause had they then to feare for he beareth not the sworde in vayne Againe our question is not whether it is the office and dutie of Princes to see abuses reformed both in the Church and common Wealth which we thinck no man to be so ignorant or barbarous to denie except the Anabaptistes But vvhether the Church ought not now amongst themselues freely to practize CHRISTS Testament either in erecting his officers and ordinances or in reforming or correcting anie fault or abuse that ariseth amongst them vvithout staying for the Princes licence yea though the Prince should vpon the paynes of death forbid This we affirme to be the dutie of euerie perticular Congregation CHRIST hauing therfore giuen vnto each and all of them his sacred power and aucthoritie to binde and to loose in earth and to doe all thinges whatsoeuer he hath commaunded them vvith promise to be with them vnto the end of the world He hath giuen them the