and the Angell of God keepe you company Answ 1. This Booke is Apocryphall and therefore is not of force to confirme a Doctrine of faith Secondly this power of Tobie is made to God and not directed to the Angell Hee prayeth God to prosper his iourney and for this end he desireth that Gods Angell might bee sent with them to keepe them company which we also may and doe pray for in such a case For the Angels haue charge ouer vs to keepe and defend vs in our wayes and godly courses Osea 12. 4. He had power ouer the Angell c. Hee made supplication to him Answ 1. This Angell was the Lord for it is said hee found him in Bethel Now that Angell was God Gen. 31. 11 13. and 28. 13. 35. 9 10. and euen in Hosea 12. verse 5. hee the same is said plainely to be The Lord God of Hosts Song of the three Children verse 36. O yee Angels of the Lord blesse ye the Lord c. Answ 1. This is Apocrypha Here is no praying to Angels for as they speake to Angels so in like manner they say O yee Sunne and Moone O yee Starres and light And so O yee winds fire and heat Winter and Summer c. And therefore by the like reason all these are to bee prayed vnto and so should wee be worse then Heathen Idolaters II. The words expresse a duty of their blessing and praising of God which they are to performe to God and not a word of any thing that they are requested to doe for vs. Numb 22. 34. Balaam said to the Angell I haue sinned c. Answ I. This Balaam was a Witch Is this a good instance Fit enough for a Romish Balaamite II. Here is no Prayer made but a confession of sinne III. This Angell Balaam said was the Lord. Compare verse 35. with verse 38. And when the Angell verse 35. said to Balaam onely the word that I shall speake vnto thee that shalt thou speake the Text in chap. 23. 4 5. saith that God met him and the Lord put a word into his mouth so verse 16. Gen. 19. 18 19 20. Oh not so my Lord. Answ Lot here prayed not to a created Angell it is cleare For first the Angell which spake to Lot thus I haue accepted of thee I will not destroy this Citie speakes as hauing authoritie in himselfe Secondly hee is called the Lord verse 24. The Lord rained from the Lord. For praying to Saints Luk. 16. 24. Father Abraham haue mercy on me c. Answ I. This is a Parable and the letter is not to bee vrged beyond the scope of the Parable which is not to teach vs to pray to Saints II. Their owne men say that vnder the Law as is before shewed there was no praying to Saints And Bellarmine giueth the reason according to his owne faith because they were not as yet in heauen III. This is an example of a damned man who flyeth with horrour from the presence of God who cals not vpon God Can this be a patterne for Gods Church to follow IV. This Parable speakes of Diues and Abraham as within eyesight and hearing one of another though diuided by a gulfe of separation What is this thē to vs on earth to petition Saints in heauen whom we see not nor cannot certainly tell that they doe heare vs to giue answer againe as Abraham doth here to Diues V. The example is not of one here on earth praying to one in Heauen as the proofe ought to be but of one soule to another both departed this life Iob 5. 1. Call now if there bee any that will answer thee and to which of the Saints wilt thou turne Answ I. Eliphas exhorts not Iob to pray vnto any Saint but reproues Iobs not well-demeaning himselfe towards God in his afflictions by so iustifying himselfe as if there were no iust cause with God thus to deale with him And to let him fee how herein hee did amisse he willeth him to consider the examples of the Saints in affliction whether they did so behaue themselues and he implyeth that none did so nor carried themselues as he did II. Their expounding it of praying to Saints hath no ground hence For first the interrogation implyeth a negation that none of the Saints would answer neither would Iob turne to any of them to haue answer from them Secondly here is no example of inuocation And if Eliphaz words be vrged as a precept what warrant had he to impose it on Iob or we so to receiue it from him For he was no Prophet sent of God to teach Iob. And the text telleth vs that Gods wrath was kindled against him for that he spake not of God the thing which was right as Iob did Iob 42. 7. Thirdly if the words of Eliphaz be vrged not as a new precept but as an exhortation to that which was then in practice why doth Bellarmine and other say that before Christ no prayers were made to Saints departed and why doe they alledge places out of the Old Testament herein fighting against themselues Gen. 48. 16. Let my name be named on them Answ Iacob here willeth not to bee prayed vnto after death for none of his posteritie euer so did but hee adopteth Iosephs children as his owne and so to be called that is that Ephraim and Manasses should be called the sonnes of Iacob or children of Israel The like phrase is so to bee taken Esa 4. 1. Rom. 15. 30. Heb. 13. 18 19. Iob 42. 8. Gen. 20. and other places where one is to pray for another Answ I. These places are spoken of one praying for another in this life and not of any praying to Saints departed From the liuing to the dead it followeth not For men liuing do acquaint one another with their estates and so they haue certaine knowledge thereof but it is not so betweene the liuing and the dead It is very vncertaine whether these heare and know what is asked of them II. There are for this dutie pregnant precepts and liuely examples euery where in Scripture but none such for the other III. The Scripture doth witnesse the fruitful effect of prayers made here one for another As Moses his prayers for the Israelites at the Red Sea in fighting against Amalek and at other times So Isaiah his prayer for Ierusalem for ouerthrow of Sennacheribs Host and so of many others But the Scripture no where witnesseth any effect at all of the prayers of the dead for any thing here on earth IV. This praying is mutuall one for another as we pray others to pray for vs so others desire our prayers for them But the departed desire not ours for them neither need they our prayers They alledge other Scriptures to proue First that Angels pray for vs. Secondly that Saints departed know what passeth on the earth Thirdly that they doe pray particularly for vs. Fourthly that wee may beseech God to grant our Petitions in fauour and
when hee liued on the earth Thirdly if but so what is this to proue that Saints then and so now doe know euery mans estate particularly and what passeth here vpon earth Ioh. 5. 45. There is one that accuseth you euen Moses Answ 1. By Moses is not meant his person but his writings among them as the verses 46. and 47. doe declare Secondly it is absurd to make the Saints in Heauen accusers Papists will haue them Intercessors whose propertie is not to accuse in any sort but to pray for them which pray to them Thirdly Christ saith they trust in Moses Will a Saint in heauen bee so displeased with them and so faile them that trust in him that hee will goe and accuse them vnto God Such then become miserable Patrons Doth their Legend afford any such examples Fourthly Christs saying that they trusted in Moses must not be vnderstood of his person but of his writings For the Iewes did not beleeue in man A curse as is before deliuered they knew to be pronounced against them which trusted in man Reu. 12. 10. The accuser of the brethren is cast downe which accused them before God day and night Answ In the former they make Moses an accuser of some and so in that respect a companion with the diuell heere Is not this a wise Gagger But how can they proue hence that Saints in Heauen know what is done here Because the diuell knowes what euils are here done A goodly reason But doe not wee know that the Diuell is here on earth that hee compasseth the earth to and fro Hee stirres vp Dauid to number the people hee is author of much mischiefe hee must then know many things And will it hence follow therefore that soules which remaine continually in heauen must know what is here done in earth 2. King 6. 12. Elisha telleth what words the King of Syria spake being farre from him So 2. King 5. 26. Elisha saw what passed between Naaman and Gehezi 1. Cor. 12. Saint Paul was rapt vp into the third Heauen Act. 7. Steuen in earth saw Christ in heauen Answ 1. These places tell vs that these things were so Let them bring vs Scriptures which will affirme as much of the soules in heauen heere seeing things in earth and we will beleeue But this these places proue not Secondly these were extraordinarie reuelations and giue no warrant of ordinarie knowledge In such things from extraordinarie acts to ordinarie is no sound arguing For the Prophets did not know all things Elisha knew not the cause of the Shunamites comming 2. King 4. 27. nor Samuel when he went to lesse his house whom God would chuse 1. Sam. 16. 6. Thirdly all these are instances of knowledge in men on earth of things done on earth or of things which being on earth they saw in heauen but not a word what those in heauen saw here vpon earth which is the onely point in question The Gagger quoteth moe places As Mat. 19. 28. But this is nothing to purpose And the place is meant of all appearing before Christ at the last day whom the Apostles shall then see Reu. 2. 26. 1. Here is a promise accomplished in Christ See D. White his last booke p 309. 310 311 312. in answer to this as also to Reu. 3. 12. 1. Cor. 13. 9. 5. 10. not cited by the Gagger Psal 2. in whom the Saints haue this power See Augustine Beda and many other cited by Fulke on this place for this sense Secondly this is to bee vnderstood of the Saints power ouer those out of the Church For here they are to bee ruled with a rodde of iron and to be broken in pieces But the Saints departed Papists make Protectors of others and not breakers of them to shiuers Act. 5. 3. This was an extraordinarie manifestation of Ananias his hypocrisie to Peter If they can proue that God doth reueale mens actions here to Saints in Heauen wee yeeld 1. Sam. 28. 14. Here is the Diuell appearing in Samuelt likenesse what hence this Gagger will gather for Saints knowledge in heauen I know not III. Scriptures obiected that Saints departed doe pray for vs particularly answered Reu. 5. 8. The 24. Elders fell downe before the Lambe hauing euery one of them Harps and golden Vials full of odours which are the prayers of the Saints Answ 1. This was in a vision and traunce and the words allegoricall and therefore cannot bee the ground of Doctrine of faith Secondly here is not meant the Saints departed but these foure and twenty are the type of the whole Church here on earth verse 10. Thirdly these prayers of the Saints which Saints are on earth chap. 8. 3. may be the prayers of the foure and twenty Elders themselues yet called the prayers of the Saints as if they were the prayers of others First for that these represent the whole Church verse 9. which consists of Saints Secondly because a Church or Congregation of people gathered together pray not onely for themselues but for all the Saints of God and so their hearts here being as Vials full of the grace of Prayer as it were odours are esteemed the prayers of all Saints Fourthly Tho. Aquinas Rich. de Sco. Victore Haymo Beda and other doe expound this place of the Church militant 2. Mach. 15. 14. Then Onias answered c. Where he telleth how Ieremy prayed for the people Answ 1. This is an Apocryphal Booke Secondly this speech of Onias touching Ieremies praying was but Iudas his dreame For it is said in verse 11. that he told the souldiers al this as his dreame to encourage them to fight It is weake architecture to build vpon a dreame doctrines of faith Thirdly neither did Iudas much regard the helpe of Ieremies prayer For in the same Chapter hee himselfe did pray verse 21 22 23. but intreated not Ieremy to pray for him but made his suite onely to God Ier. 15. 1. Though Moses and Samuel stood before me c. Answ 1. These words are spoken onely by way of supposition as if God had said If Moses and Samuel were now before mee as they were when they liued on earth praying for these people I should not regard them Is it good reasoning from a suppositiue speech to a reall act indeed Secondly they themselues say that all the Fathers that were before Christ were in Limbus Patrum and so could not know our affaires in particular to pray for vs. Baruch 3. 4. Heare now the prayers of the dead Israelites Answ 1. This booke is Apocryphal Secondly were not these in the place called Limbus Patrum How could they then see all things in the face of God from whose presence they were kept Thirdly heere is mention of the prayers of dead Israelites but not for whom they prayed It is not said they prayed for others on earth They might pray for themselues in Limbo Fourthly by dead Israelites are not here to bee vnderstood such as were departed
this life but such as were accounted as dead as going downe to the graue for so Baruch speakes to Israel verse 9 11. And hee speakes of such dead Israelites and their children which had sinned before God and had not hearkened to him verse 4. expressing their deserts worthy death Doe men aliue requesting God to heare for them the prayers of the dead vse to moue God with telling of the Saints sinnes and their rebellion against him Is this a Romish prayer Heare Lord the prayers of the dead for mee for they haue sinned against thee Will any be so madde to alledge such a reason Therefore Baruch makes confession of the liuing Israelites being then through distresse as dead men and beggeth pardon for them as followeth in verse 5. Fiftly their Doway Annotation on this place is this Men in sinnes and miseries are as if they were dead verse 11. yet by Gods mercy may receiue new grace of spirituall life They then take these for men aliue and not dead as this foolish Gagger doth Reu. 2. 26 27. This is answered before and nothing concerneth the prayers of the Saints departed Luk 16. Diues in hell prayed for his brethren on earth much more then will the Saints in heauen Answ 1. This is but a supposed speech a parable and therefore nothing thence to be gathered but as is intended in the scope of the Parable Secondly if there bee such all-knowing vision and all-helping charitie in Heauen it is maruell that in all the Scripture it should no where as clearely be mentioned as this charitie of one damned in hell Reuel 6. 9 10. And I saw vnder the Altar the soules c. and they cryed with a lowd voice How long Lord holy and true doest thou not iudge and auenge our bloud on them that dwell on the earth Answ 1. This was seene by Iohn in a vision and is not to bee interpreted according to the Letter to establish a doctrine of faith Secondly though it be taken after the letter yet here is no proofe that Saints pray for any in particular but for the Church militant in generall Thirdly their Prayer is not for other in the Church they intercede not for other but the request they make concerneth themselues Fourthly their cry is literally for iustice and reuenge vpon their enemies persecutors and sheaders of their bloud Doth mindfulnesse of iniuries remaine in Saints departed They then are lesse charitable then Saints on earth Steuen at his death prayed for his enemies This place proueth not that Saints departed pray particularly here for vs on earth but rather they pray against the enemies of the Church 2. Pet. 1. 15. I will endeuour after my decease to haue remembrance of these things Answ This is not meant by his intercession to God after death but of his then present and diligent writing to them while he was aliue whereby they might bee made to remember after his decease what hee had taught them by word of mouth or writing while he liued 1. King 2. 13 19. Adoniah had a suite to Solomon and used the helpe of Bathsheba to him Absalom vsed Ioabs intercession for him to Dauid 2. Sam. 14. So should we goe vnto God by Saints intercessors for vs. Answ 1. Similitudes are for illustration but doe not proue any thing especially thus detorted absurdly Secondly the case is not alike as betweene man and man so betweene God and vs in this case Hee is God and so euery where and not as man circumscribed in a place To man wee cannot speake when and where we would but to God wee may whose eyes and thoughts are not like to mans Esai 55. Man through pride will not or through carelesnesse regards not or through ignorance knowes not or through businesse is hindered so as hee cannot helpe such as come for helpe or his attendants about him may keepe Petitioners from him so as they cannot speake to him But there are no such lets in God The Simile therefore is not fit Thirdly this is voluntarie humilitie which caused the worship of Angels by certaine Heretikes which the Apostle condemneth Col. 2. 18. Fourthly wee need no Saints to goe to God for vs for wee haue appointed by God himselfe a Mediatour of intercession betweene God and vs his Sonne Iesus Christ by whom boldly with confidence we may goe to God Ephes 3. 12. Heb. 4. 16. 10. 22. 7. 25. Fiftly as for any to goe betweene Christ and vs wee neede it not For he is the Head and all wee the members of his bodie as well those in earth as those in heauen wee here on earth being as deare to him as those in heauen Hee sitteth in heauen to request for vs and is a most mercifull High Priest touched with our infirmities Heb. 4. 15. Therefore hee tooke our nature vpon him Heb. 2. 16. to be a faithfull and mercifull High Priest verse 17. Steuen made no meanes to him but prayed immediately to him Act. 7. 59 60. and so did Iohn Reuelation 22. 20 21. Christ willeth vs himselfe to come vnto him Math. 11. 28. And we reade not that any of the Apostles or holy men praying mentioned in Scripture did euer goe to Saint or Angell to make request for them Also to answer the Simile Is there any of vs hauing a great mans Command in all our needs to come to himselfe giuing his faithfull word and promise to heare our suites requests very readily at any time and none appointed by him to heare suiters when they come but onely himselfe attending mercifully in his owne person for vs in open place without let of any that would goe first to any of his seruants and not forthwith rather to himselfe with all gladnesse I appeale to mens owne hearts in this Lastly this putting of Saints betweene Christ and vs is to make an Intercessor and to hold Saints departed if wee were sure they could heare vs which yet is very vncertaine to bee more louing more tenderly affected toward vs then Iesus Christ himselfe who hath with his owne bloud bought both them and vs. Scriptures obiected that wee may pray to God to haue our Petitions granted in fauour and merit of Saints departed Exod. 32. 13. Remember Abraham Isaac and Israel thy seruants to whom thou swarest c. Answ 1. Here is no merit of Saints vrged Secondly their persons are mentioned by Moses not for their owne worthinesse but for the Couenant which by oath God confirmed to them which Couenant Moses vrgeth not their deserts For Moses speakes of Gods act to them but not a syllable of any thing that they either did or spake note it well 2. Chron. 6. 16. Keepe with thy seruant Dauid my Father that which thou hast promised Answ 1. Here is no word no worke of Dauid remembred and therefore no merit of his vrged Secondly that which Salomon alledgeth in his prayer it Gods promise made vnto Dauid So in 2. Chro. 1. 9. in 1. Chro.
no condemnation saith Paul Rom. 8. 1. For by Gods grace are wee iustified gratis by redemption that is in Christ Rom. 3. 24. and hee hath set vs free Ioh. 8. 36. free from sinne both in respect of the guilt as also of punishment Else how are we free Are Gods workes imperfect 2. Cor. 5. 1. Wee know that if our earthly house of this habitation be dissolued that we haue a building of God an house not made with hands eternall in heauen Saint Paul speakes of himselfe and of all true Christians in this word wee of whom he saith that after death they haue their house for euer in heauen hee puts no lodging or Inne of Purgatory betweene And in the tenth verse of the same Chapter hee saith that at the last Day euery one is to receiue as hee hath done in this bodie So whilest man liueth here in bodie and not as hee suffers in soule in Purgatorie is hee considered Heb. 10. 14. By one oblation hath hee consummated for euer those that are sanctified Note here 1. That Christ hath made an oblation for his 2. That this is but one 3. That this one Col 2. 13 4. 1. Ioh. 1. 7. hath consummate and made his perfect 4. And that for euer So as in verse 17. it s said that their sinnes and iniquities I will now remember no more And will he yet punish them in Purgatory Will he cleanse them from all sinne pardon all offences not imputing sinne Rom. 4. 8. and yet will he exact a satisfaction It s vnreasonable to thinke it 1. Thes 4. 17. Where the Apostle speakes of those aliue at the last Day to be onely changed and so taken vp to Christ All the elect at that time shall escape Purgatorie or it may bee it will then be blowne out or it and hell turned into one Ephes 1. 10. Here the Apostle speaketh of perfecting all in Christ in heauen and in earth Note how hee here onely mentioneth two places in which those be who haue benefit by Christ those in Heauen and in Earth The Apostle forgot them which were frying in Purgatorie If Saint Paul had beleeued such a place where hope of Saluation had beene would he haue left those soules comfortlesse Reu. 14. 13. Blessed are the dead which dye in the Lord for they rest from their labours Where rest is there is no torment It were small comfort to thinke this to be spoken of the body for so beasts and beastly men rest Also to vnderstand it of the soule that it rests from the feeling of temptations to sinne and from feare of damnation and yet to be in hellish torments for sinne they not knowing how long What a rest may this be called Let them shew where the word rest is ascribed to any and that they are blessed and doe rest while they be in flaming torments Thus the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 henceforth pointeth at the present transition to blessednesse Math. 16. 19. and 18. 18. Here is mention of the Churches power to loose on earth but not in Purgatorie except Purgatorie be on earth Not Peter nor the Pope hath any power allowed by Christ from these Scriptures to meddle with any binding or loosing of any after death but onely in this life Note this you Papists which rest so much on the Popes power and helpe of friends after death Luk. 23. 43. The good thiefe went forthwith into Paradise which is heauen 2. Cor. 18. 2 4. So Lazarus into Abrahams bosome Luk. 16. 22. Both escaped Purgatorie the one vnder the Law and the other vnder the Gospell In all the old Testament there was no sacrifice ordained for soules of the departed When Aaron offered incense it was onely for the liuing to pacifie Gods displeasure towards them but not for the dead Numb 16. 48. Wisd 3. 1. The soules of the iust are in the hand of God and torment shall not touch them So doth Montanus translate truely according to the Greeke text But in Purgatory is torment and therefore iust mens soules are not in Purgatory for they are in peace ver 4. What can bee more direct against their Purgatorie Hee that desires more Scriptures according to our translation let him reade a booke intituled Ignisfatuus where are alledged out of the Old Testament Ezech. 18. 22. Esai 57. 1. Eccles 12. 7. Psal 32. 1 2. Psal 51. 7. Esai 53. 4. Leu. 1. 3 6. Out of the New Testament 1. Ioh. 1. 7. Heb. 1. 3. 1. Tim. 2. 6. Heb. 10. 14. Rom. 6. 23. 8. 33. 5. 1. Reu. 14. 13. 2. Cor. 5. 1. Col. 1. 20. Gal. 6. 8. Ioh. 9. 4. 2. Cor. 4. 17 18. Mar. 11. 25. Col. 2. 13. Mat. 6. 12. Ioh. 10. 18. Gal. 5. 22. All which places are vrged in forme of reasoning Contraried by Antiquitie The booke of questions and answeres at the end of Iustine Martyrs workes saith in quest 75. thus After the soules are departed out of the body the soules of the good are carried into Paradise the soules of the wicked into hell And in quest 60. it is said that men after the departure of the soule out of the bodie cannot by any prouision care or study get helpe or succour Cyprian against Demetrian saith This life being ended wee are diuided into the euerlasting lodgings of death or immortalitie Ierome on Amos 9. The soule loosed from the bands of the body shall bee carried to hell or be lifted into the heauenly habitation Greg. Nazianzen in Epitaph Caesar fratris saith that euery good soule fearing God freed from the body presently enioyeth admirable pleasure Austin de vanit Tom. 9. c. 1. When the soule parteth from the bodie she is instantly placed in Paradise or headlongly cast into hell and in lib. 5. of his Hypognost he saith A third place wee know none neither doe we find any such place throughout the holy Scriptures Ambros cap. 2. of his book of the profit of death saith When the day commeth wee goe assuredly to our Father Abraham c. and although our workes faile vs marke this yet our faith may secure vs. The Greeke Churches to this day beleeue no Purgatorie See Master Moulin his Buckler of Faith pag. 214. 219. citing Chrysostome Lactant. Hilarie Victorinus Austin Ambrose Origen Greg. Nazianz. and Basile touching soules departed Gainesaid by their owne men Espencaeus in 2. Tim. pag. 144. saith Euery soule after the dissolution of the body doth enter into an vnchangeable estate Leo Decr. part 2. Consecr 33. dist 1. cap. 49. saith That which a man in his body receiueth not being vncloathed of his flesh he cannot obtaine Lombard 3. D. 19. saith of such as are in Christ that they are so deliuered that after this life there is not any thing to bee found to be punished Bishop Fisher called Roffensis against Luther Art 18. confesseth that in the ancient Fathers there is either none at all or very rare mention of Purgatorie Greg. on Iob lib. 13. cap.
Dutie common to other of inferiour ranke This word feede therefore will helpe them nothing for the Supremacie The word my pulleth downe Peter from Soueraignty For first Peters charge is to seed not his owne but Christs sheepe So then Peter is not a Lord but a Seruant-Shepheard to feede the chiefe Shepheards flocke as Peter himselfe calleth Christ who knew no other chiefe Shepheardship either in himselfe or in any other but in Christ 1. Pet. 5. 3. And wee reade how the flocke is called Gods Act. 20. 28. 1. Pet. 5. 2. but no where Peters As also by Christ himselfe wee are taught that there is but one fold and one Shepheard of that fold to wit but one generall Shepheard and that is he himselfe Ioh. 10. 11 14 16. and not Peter and that by Peters owne acknowledgement in the fore-quoted place 1. Pet. 5. 3. The word Lambes or Sheepe considered with the rest of the words and as it is commonly taken wipes away Peters Supremacie For first the words are not spoken vniuersally Feede all my Lambes as if hee had been charged with all of them For this had beene a charge First which hee could neuer haue performed secondly which he neuer did attempt to performe Now God neuer imposed any impossible charge vpon him and Peter would not haue been found faithlesse But it is spoken indefinitely to feed here and there whom he could and where hee could at any time Therefore hee is not here the vniuersall Bishop Secondly Lambes or Sheepe are not Apostles Prophets Euangelists and Pastors These are neuer so called but in relation to Iesus Christ onely Mat. 26. 31. and neuer in reference to any man But if vnder these Lambes and Sheepe bee comprehended all and euery one of the Church and flocke of Christ then by their account all the Apostles and the rest must bee sheepe and Peter their Shepheard and so a Shepheard ouer shepheards Which vaine conceit without proofe who can giue credit vnto And yet Bellarmine makes a difference betweene Lambes and Sheepe The Lambes forsooth must bee the Laitie and the Sheepe the Apostles when as the words are vsed indifferently Math. 10. 16. Luk. 10. 3. Act. 8. 32. And 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Christ though he vse two words yet doth not make any such difference For the two words to feede are applyed also indifferently to either of them So that taking sheepe for the Apostles Peter must not onely rule as they would haue it but also teach the Apostles when Apostles are all immediately from Christ and taught of Christ and by his holy Spirit Galat. 1. 1 12. and needed no instruction from man in the worke of the Ministerie Math. 10. 20. Ioh. 14. 26. and 16. 13. Thus we see there is not the least footing in any word of this Text for Peters Supremacie aboue all other on which yet they settle it But if here Peters Supremacie could bee proued yet what 's this to the Pope He feeds not by preaching Christs Lambes but rules or rather rauages like a roaring Lyon ouer Christs Sheepe hee is like a Lambe but speakes like the Dragon Reuel 13. Lastly that here is no Headship giuen to Peter it appeareth in verse 17. where it is said that vpon Christs third time questioning him he was grieued Now may wee reasonably suppose if Peter had conceiued of Christs words as Popes doe that a Supremacie was therein bestowed vpon him that hee would haue beene grieued Doe men grieue at high preferments offered especially hauing contended for the same as the Apostles had done Who seeth not therefore that Peter perceiued no such glorious preferment nor high Dignitie out of any thing that Christ here spoke as our Aduersaries doe From all this it is cleere that Peter from hence hath no Headship aboue others XX. Proposition That Peter was the onely Vicar of Christ here on Earth Confuted by their owne Bible FOr Vicaradge vnto Christ properly so taken it teacheth vs That Iesus Christ going out of the world promised to substitute in his roome not any Peter nor any man but such a one as could bee euery where with his Church in his bodily absence which was his holy Spirit Ioh. 15. 26. 16. 7. And by this would hee be euer with them Math. 28. 19 20. 18. 20. to remember them of all things Ioh. 14. 26. to guide them Ioh. 16. 13. and to dwell with them Ioh. 14 17. Rom. 8. 9. which a Peter could not doe Secondly it telleth vs that according to this promise when Christ ascended hee sent downe his Spirit Act. 2. by which Gods people are still guided and taught Rom. 8. 1 5 9. 11 14 26. 1. Cor. 2. 10 12. 1. Ioh. 2. 20 27. which beareth witnesse to our spirits that wee are Gods children Rom. 8. 16. Gal. 4. 6. by which wee are sealed to eternall life 2. Cor. 1. 12. Ephes 1. 13. Thirdly it declareth vnto vs that when Christ ascended hee was mindfull of his Church and gaue gifts vnto men Some to Ephes 4. 12. be Apostles some Prophets some Euangelists some Pastors and Teachers but among these no one generall Vicar or Head ouer all If there had beene such a one Paul had as good reason to haue mentioned him as the rest But his Vicar generall was Gods Spirit and no man And note that the Apostle shewes a threefold vse of these afore-named 1. For that they were the consummation of the Saints 2. For the worke of the Ministerie 3. For the edifying of the body of Christ Now if a generall visible Vicar on earth had serued for any of these purposes hee had been giuen of Christ but he needed not and therefore this needlesse gift was not giuen to any As for a supply of Instructers Guides and Lights in the Church Militant wee deny not but Christ hath left many Vicars and doth still send dayly Embassadours to his Church to reconcile vs to God And so our Bishops and other Ministers of the Church by the Keyes of power and knowledge open the way of Heauen to Christian people which they doe in Christs stead and therein are his Vicars or Deputies lawfully called But this Vicaradge is too small a portion for Sir Pope Contraried by Antiquitie Tertul. de violand Virgin The Lord sent the Holy Ghost that mans mediocritie not being capable of all things at one time might by little and little bee directed orderly disposed and brought to perfection by that Vicar his holy Spirit Also in his Booke de praescript hee saith that Christ taken vp into heauen sent the power of his holy Spirit as his Vicar to conduct the faithfull Wee see in these dayes who was held the Vicar of Christ Gainesaid by their owne men Aquinas in Opusc 20. calleth all the Apostles the Vicars of Christ Tolet. in Ioh. 20. 21. saith that Christ instituted his Apostles his Vicars How then was Peter his Vicar for their cannot be a Vicars Vicar If Peter was then the
merit of the Saints If all this were true and euidently cleere out of Scripture yet will it not follow that wee therefore may pray to them For prayer is a part of Gods worship to bee made onely to God as precepts dobindlys the patterne of all true right praying directeth and holy mens examples doe teach vs So this answer might suffice Yet that their proofes from Scripture may not deceiue the vnconsiderate I wil produce the places for all foure and make answer thereunto I. Scriptures obiected That Angels pray in particular for vs answered Zach. 1. 12. And the Angell of the Lord answered and said O Lord of Hosts how long wilt thou not haue mercy on Ierusalem and on the Cities of Iudah c Answ 1. This was a vision in the night to the Prophet verse 8. and chap. 4. 1. and so an extraordinarie thing and being so and also but a representation for the present to instruct the Prophet a reall and ordinarie act cannot bee concluded from thence Secondly these words are not a Prayer but a kinde of enquirie after the Lords purpose touching the future estate of the Church that he might enforme the Prophet thereof as by the present ensuing answer may appeare in verse 13. and the charge giuen to make the same knowne to the Church verse 14 15. for her comfort in restoring her to glory and peace verse 16 17. Thirdly grant it a Prayer it will not proue that Angels pray for vs because this Angell is not a created Angell but Iesus Christ who is often called in the Old Testament an Angell as before is shewed And that this Angell is so to bee taken is euident For first the Prophet calleth this Angell his Lord vers 9. chap. 4. 4 5. Secondly the Text calleth him the Lord and maketh this Angell and the Lord all one verse 19 20 21. Thirdly to this Angell the other gaue an account verse 11. Fourthly before this Angell stood Iosua the High Priest chap. 3. 1 3. and he is called the Lord verse 2. The Lord said vnto Satan The Lord rebuke thee Satan Tobie 12. 12. I did bring the remembrance of your prayers before the holy One Answ 1. He that is here brought in for an Angell of God in chap. 5. 12. told no better then a lye for he said he was Azarias the sonne of Ananias a mortall mans sonne He could not then be an Angell or if an Angell a lying one And as hee made a lye therein so might he doe in this chap. 12. 12 15. Secondly this place doth not proue that Angels pray for vs. For he saith not that he prayed for them but if the lyer may be beleeued he brought their prayers vnto Gods remembrance and presented them vers 15. as one taking a Petition of another man to present it to a King he is the presenter of it but not the Petitioner Thirdly this Booke is Apocrypha and suspected of idle fables such as learned Papists doe meanely esteeme of Reu. 8. 4. And the smoake of the Incense which came with the prayers of the Saints ascended from the hand of the Angell before God Answ 1. Here is no created Angell but Iesus Christ which is cleere by these reasons First from the allusion to the Priests office seruing at the Altar who was a type not of a created Angell but of Christ Heb. 9. 11. Then from the place where this Angell stands which was at the Altar to offer vpon the golden Altar which was before the Throne but the Angels are in the out circuit of the Church chap. 5. 11. as her guard to keepe her Psal 34. 7. Secondly it is not said that hee offered vp the Saints prayers but he offered vp Incense with their prayers It accompanied the Saints prayers verse 4. and the smoake of the Incense ascended vp with the prayers of the Saints Christs Spirit goeth with the prayers of the Saints like Incense and the vehemencie thereof teaching vs to pray with groanes that cannot bee expressed Rom. 8. is like smoke ascending vp before God or the Incense is Christs own intercession the smoake the efficacie thereof accompanying the Saints prayers vnto God for when wee pray he then prayeth for vs. Thirdly most of the Papists which doe write vpon this Text doe hold this Angell to be Christ Peter Bullenger Thom. Aquin. Rich. de Sancto victore Haymo Dion Carthus Viegas and many other This is nothing then for Angels praying for vs. Dan. 8. 15. When I Daniel had seene the vision c. and chap. 9. 20 21. while I was speaking in Prayer c. Answ 1. The former Text speakes nothing at all of any Angels praying but of the Angels instructing Daniel at Gods commandement chap. 8. 16 17. This was also a vision in a deepe sleepe verse 18. From whence Doctrines of Faith are not to be concluded but soundly to be taught from the literall sense of other holy Scriptures II. The latter Text sheweth that Daniel praying to God chap. 9. 20. the Angell of the Lord was sent to him verse 21. but no mention of any prayer made by the Angell for him Whether Angels pray for vs the Scripture teacheth not If wee yeeld that they doe it followes not that we should pray to See D. White his last booke in answer to Luk. 15. 10. pag. 315 316. to 1. Cor. 4. 9. pag. 317. them The Angels are sent out by God for vs they are often with vs they are helpers and by comming and going at Gods bidding they doe know our affaires here But should wee therefore pray to them it is a part of Gods worship and Angels themselues as before is proued forbid to be worshipped II. Scriptures obiected to proue that Saints departed know what is here done on earth answered Luk. 16. 29. They haue Moses and the Prophets let them heare them Answ 1. It is a Parable and a thing supposed onely not a literall History For after the very letter some things in this Parable cannot be true and therefore they cannot hence conclude a Doctrine as out of a Historie If this place will serue for Saints knowledge from Abraham how can the Papists looke on this Text hindring the people from the Scripture When first Abraham exhorts to the hearing of Moses and the Prophets Secondly denyeth the sending of the dead to instruct as Papists haue beene instructed for their feigned Purgatorie Thirdly he affirmeth that they which will not heare the Scriptures written by Moses and the Prophets will not beleeue such as rise from the dead Thus he confirmeth the authoritie of the Scriptures against wandring visions apparitions Secondly the Papists say that before Christs Ascension Abraham and the rest of the Patriarks were in the place called Limbus patrum How could Abraham know what was done in Earth when he was in the prison Perhaps by enquirie made of other Soules which came thither how the Church did and what other meanes of instruction she had then