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A05534 A treatise of the ceremonies of the church vvherein the points in question concerning baptisme, kneeling, at the sacrament, confirmation, festiuities, &c. are plainly handled and manifested to be lawfull, as they are now vsed in the Church of England : whereunto is added a sermon preached by a reuerend bishop. Lindsay, David, d. 1641? 1625 (1625) STC 15657.5; ESTC S2190 273,006 442

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can produce one instance to the contrarie I shall pray you doe it or if not suffer mee to conclude against you that as on the Lords day when they stood and prayed they also stood and receiued so at that same time on the weeke dayes when they kneeled and prayed they kneeled and receiued and this is proued by all these testimonies of the Ancients wherein the people are exhorted to humble themselues externally at the Sacrament as by the most cleare testimony of Chrysostons I cited before Hereby it is manifest that the gesture of kneeling followed not the errour of Transsubstantiation but was receiued and retained in the Church on the Lords day at publike prayer and receiuing of the Sacrament as it had been vsed before on the weeke-dayes at these religious exercises Thus following your owne foot-steps and building on your owne grounds kneeling is proued to haue been in vse in all ages and with your owne hands yee haue thrust sitting to the doore for the space of 1560. yeares An answere to the last Section entituled Kneeling not practised in the Reformed Churches PP THe Lutheran Churches do acknowledge reall presence by way of Consubstantiation it is no wonder therefore that they approue kneeling The Reformed Churches as they damned bodily presence so haue they reiected the gesture of kneeling in the act of receiuing The Church of Bohemia hath retained this gesture since the dayes of Iohn Husse In their Confession exhibited to King Ferdinand anno 1535. it is thus said Ministriverò Dominicae coenae verba referentes plebem ipsam ad hanc fidem hortantur vt corporis Christi praesentiam adesse credant The Ministers are willed to stirre vp the people to beleeue that the bodie of Christ is present the purer sort amongst them as they haue reiected the errour of reall presence so depart they from this gesture In our neghbour Church some of their defenders of kneeling will not haue vs inquisitiue of the maner of Christs presence in the Sacrament And the Bishop of Rochester commends the simplicity of the Ancients which disputed not whether Christ was present con sub in or trans in this Supper Sutton in his Appendix to his Meditations on the Lords Supper condemnes likewise this diligent search of the maner of Christs presence If the maner of Christs presence be not determined there can arise no other but a confused worship of such a confused and determinate presence The Papists acknowledge that there ought to be no adoration but where there is acknowledged a bodily presence in the Sacrament Hence it is that they proue mutually the one by the other It will not follow that we may change sitting into kneeling because the ancient Church and some Reformed Churches haue changed sitting into standing because kneeling maketh so many breaches both in the Institution and in the second Commandement and is no wayes a table gesture By standing we accommodate our selues to a table to participate of the dainties set thereon standing was neuer abused to idolatrie as kneeling hath been we are not bound to imitate other Churches further then they imitate Christ Our sitting is not Scottish Geneuating but a commendable imitation of the Apostolicall Churches and obedience to Christs Institution They flee vp at last to the Church Triumphant and alledge for kneeling the foure and twenty Elders falling downe before the Lambe but how conclude they this that they that are called to the Supper of the Lamb kneele at the Supper of the Lamb And seeing the blessed soules shall not be clothed with their bodies before the Resurrection how can they conclude materiall geniculation of the blessed Saints in heauen All creatures in heauen in earth or vnder the earth are said to bow their knee at the name of Iesus that is to acknowledge his Soueraigne authority howbeit the celestial Angels blessed soules and infernall spirits haue not knees to bow with The euerlasting felicity of the children of God is the Supper of glory Doe they drinke continually of that felicity vpon their knees Thousands thousands stand before him many shall come from the East and from the West and sitte at the heauenly Table with Abraham Isaack and Iacob may we not then conclude sitting and standing as well as they do kneeling if we looke to the letter of parables visions allegories and prophecies but symbolicall theologie is not argumentatiue Lastly how will they prooue euidently that the falling of the foure and twenty Elders before the Lambe is to bee interpreted of the Church Triumphant rather then of the Church Militant ANS To proue that kneeling is not practised in the Reformed Churches yee cut off in the beginning from their number the Lutherans because they acknowledge the Reall presence by way of Consubstantiation This I grant is an error yet is it not directly fundamentall They abhorre as we doe the Bread-worship and they worship Christ in the Sacrament as we should do their errour is onely in the manner of his presence which errour should not debarre them from the Communion of the Reformed Churches with them yee reckon the Church of Bohemia because in their Confession exhibited to King Ferdinand anno 1535. they say Ministriverò coenae Dominicae c. Let the Ministers when they rehearse the words of the Lords Supper exhort the people to this faith that they may beleeue the body of Christ to be present there By this yee conclude that some of them held the errour of Reall presence in the Sacrament and yet their Confession mentioneth neither reall nor corporall nor locall presence And it is no errour to beleeue the presence of Christs body in the Sacrament after some manner as to beleeue that it is there obiectiue that is as the reall obiect whereupon we must fixe and fasten our Faith and to beleeue that it is there virtute efficacia in vertue and efficacie to nourish and strengthen vs in newnesse of life heere and raise vs vp vnto eternall life hereafter In respect whereof Christ saith That his flesh is meate indeed and his blood is drinke indeed and that he who eateth his flesh and drinketh his blood hath life eternall and that he shall raise him at the last day Lastly to beleeue that the body of Christ is present in the Diuine Person wherein it subsisteth albeit locally the same be in heauen is no errour for wheresoeuer the person is there both the Natures are present coniunctly The Diuinitie is euer and euery where clothed with the humanitie wherein it dwelleth bodily and ought to be considered so in all actions of diuine worship and the Humanity is euer and euery where conioyned with the Diuinitie albeit the same be not extensiuè or diffusè as the Vbiquetars hold through euery place with the Diuinitie As by example wheresoeuer a man is personally present there his head his body all his members are present albeit the foot or the hand be not in the place where the head is yet they are
coniunctly present with the head where the person is and so as Christ is personally present at the Sacrament so is his Diuinitie and Humanity coniunctly present in the Person That to conclude it is no errour according to the Confession aboue expressed to beleeue the spirituall powerfull and personall presence of Christs bodie at the Sacrament and in that respect to worship his flesh and blood there yea Saint Augustine saith That it is sinne not to worship his flesh there But you must be excused to exclude all from your Communion that beleeue any such thing because yee haue denied before that the Sacrament hath such a promise and presence of Christ as the Temple or Arke had vnder the Law pag. 51. And pag. 50. yee denied that it was a signe that should moue vs vpon the sight thereof to lift vp our hearts to the spirituall obiect of Faith I vse your own words or a meanes or occasion to stirre vp men to adore the Principall that is Christ And so yee doe acknowledge that they are ordered of God to be signes only and seales of his graces without any promise power vertue or presence of the bodie of Christ that is the opinion of the Anabaptists If these be they whom yee call the purer sort amongst the Bohemians I know not this I know that the Polonian Church esteemes them Arrians who sitte at the Sacrament whom I hope yee will not repute to be the purer sort or reckon amongst the Reformed Thirdly if yee debar from the communion of the well reformed Churches all who are of the Bishop of Rochester and Suttons minde who commend their simplicitie that beleeue Christs presence and are not inquisitiue of the maner but professe with Durandus saying modum nescimus praesentiam credimus then shall yee excommunicate from your societie all that preferre the peace of the Church to the loue of contention and curious disputes that haue disquieted the Church rent the body therof asunder and diuided the same in factions Where yee say that if the maner of Christs presence be not determined there can arise no other but a confused worship of such a confused and indetermined presence your allegation is but rash and prophane Can yee determine the maner of Christs presence in heauen particularly or the manner of God the Father his presence in heauen and earth albeit we beleeue that God is in essence and power euery where and that Christ is bodily in the heauens These determinations are but generall and confused notions yet God forbid wee should say as yee doe that the presence of the Father and the Sonne in heauen and in earth are confused or that the worship is confused that is giuen thereto according to Gods Word As to the Papists who acknowledge as yee say that there ought to be no adoration but where there is a bodily presence acknowledged in the Sacrament although yee be of the same minde and thereupon condemne all adoration of Christ in the Sacrament yet we attribute no more to that their opinion then to the rest of their errours and therefore affirme with the learned and Diuine Bishop IE VVEL That it is without doubt our dutie to adore the body of Christ in the word of God in the Sacrament of Baptisme in the mysteries of the body and blood of Christ and wheresoeuer any foot-step or signe of it appeares hut chiefely in the holy mysteries in which we haue a liuing expresse I mage of all Christs peregrination in the flesh To conclude if yee except out of the number of the reformed Churches all that thinke that Christ is present in the Sacrament and in the Sacrament to be adored I feare yee draw the number of the reformed Churches to a very small count whom yee call the purer sort such as Arrians Anabaptists and their followers But if by the reformed Churches yee vnderstand those who distinguish betweene the signes and the things signified giuing to the signes the reuerence due to them and adoring onely the thing signified to wit the body and blood of Christ in the Sacrament of these some I confesse do erre in esteeming Christs bodie to bee really and locally present and yet seeing they agree with vs in the chiefe and principall grounds of Religion wee must not excommunicate them from the number of the reformed But let vs lay aside these whom yee call Vbiquetars If yee hold the rest for Reformed Churches that are in Germanie Polonia Bohemia Hungaria Denmark Norway and great Britaine with the Church of Ireland for one that sitteth at the receiuing of the Sacrament in all these Churches they are an hundred that kneele I mention not the Church of France where they stand and sit not whom yee condemne by your doctrine of breaking the Institution and transgressing the Precept and precedent of our Sauiour and with them the ancient Church for the space of a thousand yeeres that stood and receiued as also others of the Reformed who follow their example for when yee maintaine sitting as necessarie by institution example and precept yee condemne all that do otherwise Yet yee could presse heere to excuse them or rather to mitigate your censure of them saying first that by standing men accommodate themselues to a table to participate of the dainties set thereon Next that standing hath neuer beene abused to idolatry as kneeling hath bin but these abuses are friuolous and nothing worth for in the Church of France where they receiue standing they doe no more accommodate themselues to a table then they who kneele for neither doe they reach their hand to the table to take any thing to themselues therefrom receiuing all from the hand of the Minister nor doe they stand socially as yee will haue sitting to be vsed for society and familiar entertainment but first one or two commeth and hauing receiued they passe to giue place to others Secondly yee forget or then are ignorant that the Priest standeth whilest hee saith Masse and receiueth adoring the Elements And therfore kneeling was neuer more abused by the people then standing is by the Priest So as by these your excuses the reformed Churches of France and others that stand at the receiuing of the Sacrament are not liberate frō the breach of the Institution second Commandement wherewith yee charge those that kneele In the end hauing condemned all for Idolaters who kneele on earth at the Sacrament yee ascend to heauen and there yee deny that we are able to conclude that they who are called to the Supper of the Lambe kneele at the Supper of the Lambe but if this be sure that all who are in heauen bow their knees to the Name of Iesus it followes necessarily that all who are called to the Supper of the Lambe kneele at the Supper of the Lambe because all the Saints in heauen that are called to the Supper of the Lambe are continually and without intermission at the Supper and so if they bow their knees at