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A79534 A true discovery of the ignorance, blindness, and darkness of those who are called magistrates about Carlile in Cumberland, who call Light darkness, and truth error, and judge them blasphemers who are sent of the Lord to declare the eternal word of truth amongst them, but the Lord hath made himself manifest in the hearts of his people, and opened their eyes here in the northern parts, whereby they plainly see the tyranny, oppression, and cruelty of those who are called magistrates and rulers, who do imprison the servants of the most high God, for declaring against sin and abomination, held up in markets and steeple-houses, and so they that depart from iniquity and stand in obedience to the commands of the Lord, makes himself a prey to that generation; but the Lord is risen for Sions deliverance, all praise and glory be to him for evermore. J.C. Camm, John, 1604?-1656. 1654 (1654) Wing C393; Thomason E740_8; ESTC R202139 12,325 19

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Heaven 2 Cor. 12.21 And David saith Whom have I in Heaven but thee Psal 73.25 And thou hast made us sit together in heavenly places Behold I looked and behold a dore was opened in Heaven Rev. 4.1 And the seventh Angel sounded there was great voices in Heaven Rev. 11.15 And I saw another Angel flye in the midst of Heaven having the everlasting Gospel to preach unto them that dwell upon the earth saying with a loud voice Fear God and give glory to him for the hour of his judgements is come Rev. 14.6 7. And I saw another sign in Heaven great and marvellous Rev. 15.6 7. And after I saw these things I heard a voice of much people in Heaven saying Hallaluiah salvation and glory and honor and power unto the Lord our God now if any come to witness this fulfilled ye imprison them and so would ye do to John if he were here and so be witness against your selves that ye are in the same generation that ever persecuted for John and the Apostles was persecuted with the same generation Accusation 2. Ye accuse me for confessing the Son of God and saying I am the Son of God as many as received him to them he gave power to become the sons of God which were born not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of man but of God Joh. 1.12 13. and must not the son which is born of God and not by the will of man speak Behold what manner of love is this that we should be called the sons of God Therefore the world knoweth us not because it knoweth him not and marvel not my brethren if the world hate you we know that we have passed from death to life because we love the brethren the world ever hated the son of God 1 Joh. 3.1 2 13 14. And we know we are of God and the whole world lyeth in wickedness and we know that the Son of God is come and hath given us an understanding that is true and we are in him that 's true even in his son Jesus Christ this is the true God and eternal life 1 Joh. 5.19 20. God called Israel his son Exod. 4.22 and the son of God was an Israelite indeed in whom there was no guile Psal 2.7 Thou art my son this day have I begotten thee And Isa 9.6 unto us a son is given A virgin shall bear a son and this is my well-beloved Son in whom I am well pleased no man knows the Son but the Father neither knows any man the Father save the Son and him to whomsoever the Son shall reveal him and where he is revealed must he not speak no man hath seen God at any time the onely begotten son which is in the bosom of the Father he hath declared him where this son is made manifest declares the Father now which no man can for he hath not seen God and he that hath the Son hath life and he that hath not the Son hath not life and here you have cleared your selves from God Accusation 3. I said I saw Gods face The Lord spoke to Moses face to face as a man speaks to his friend Exod. 33.11 and might not he confess it now if any confess he sees the face of God you imprison them shewing ye take counsel against the Lord and against his Anointed And Jacob whose name was changed Israel saw God face to face Gen. 32.30 And might not he confess it where Iacob or Israel is risen sees the same as he saw but Esau doth not but seeks to slay Iacob now Esau who was a fornicator and a prophane person who for one morsel of meat sold his birth-right for the lust and all who lives in the lust fornication and prophaneness are in the same nature now and such are they that persecutes Iacob and Israel now which sees God face to face and here the Scripture is fulfilled And Iob said I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear but now my eys see thee and must he deny that he saw God Now he who confesses he sees God ye imprison ye shew your selves to be in the generation that ever persecuted the righteous seed in all ages and generations which seed is Christ Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made he saith not to seeds as of many but to one and to thy seed which is Christ as if there be 10000 one seed which is Christ in all and must not this seed speak or the seed of the serpent Whether Christ or the Serpent And if Christ be in you the body is dead because of sin but the spirit is life because of righteousness and the pure in heart sees good And ye have shewed forth your corrupt hearts Accusation 4. Because I said I did not commit sin he that believeth is born of God whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin for his seed remaineth in him and he cannot sin because he is born of God in this the children of God are manifest and the children of the devil for this purpose the Son was made manifest to destroy the works of the devil where the son of God is not made manifest the works of the devil are standing and he that sinneth hath not seen nor known him Cain was that wicked one which slew his brother and wherefore did he slay him because his works were evil and his brothers righteous now thou Cain appears against the righteous seed where it is brought forth the second birth 1 Joh. 3. he that is dead is free from sin now if we be dead with Christ we shall also live with him knowing that the old man is crucified with him that the body of sin should be destroyed that henceforth we should not serve sin being then made free from sin ye became the servants of righteousness but now being made free from sin and become servants to God ye have your fruit unto holiness and the end everlasting life Rom. 6.18 20 22. ye are circumcised with the Circumcision made without hands in putting off the body of sin of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ but ye are not in the flesh but in the spirit if so the spirit of God dwelleth in you now if any man have not the spirit of Christ he is none of his and if Christ be in you the body is dead because of sin and must not this Christ speak where he is made manifest and kill the body of sin which Christ is but one yesterday to day and for ever and is there any Christ but this which kills the body of sin and Christ in you the hope of glory Accusation 5. As the same Christ as ever was made manifest Christ said to his Disciples I will come again to you that your joy may be full the same Christ that suffered and when he is come which the Pharisees and Jews will not have to rule and speak which ruled over the Disciples and spoke to them and
A True DISCOVERY Of the Ignorance Blindness and Darkness Of those Who are called Magistrates about Carlile in Cumberland who call Light Darkness and Truth Error and judge them blasphemers who are sent of the Lord to declare the eternal word of truth amongst them but the Lord hath made himself manifest in the hearts of his people and opened their eys here in the northern parts whereby they plainly see the Tyranny Oppression and Cruelty of those who are called Magistrates and Rulers who do imprison the servants of the most high God for declaring against sin and abomination held up in Markets and Steeple-houses and so they that depart from iniquity and stand in obedience to the Commands of the Lord makes himself a prey to that generation but the Lord is risen for Sions deliverance all Praise and Glory be to him for evermore J. C. LONDON Printed for G. Calvert 1654. A true discovery of the Ignorance Blindness and Darkness of those who are called Magistrates about Carlile in Cumberland HIm whom the world calls George Fox was moved of the Lord God of Heaven and Earth to go into Cumberland and the Lord let him see he had a people in it and was moved to go into Carlile and was moved to go into the Market and stept upon the side of the Cross and a grief came upon him to see the deceits and filthiness that the people lived in and he was moved to bid them lay away all deceitful Marchandise and cozening and cheating and bad them repent for the judgement day of the Lord is coming and other words as he passed up the streets afterwards he was moved to go up to the Castle to speak to the souldiers to shew them where their Teacher was and their condemnation was the light of Christ that hated it then upon the first day he was moved to go to the Steeple-house and he stayed till the Priest had done and the Priest passed a-away and then the rude multitude rose and there was a cry Down with the Roundheaded rogues ANd upon the second day of the week the Magistrates thereabouts they sent for him the said George and examined him and sent him to prison as the examination followeth Oh the oaths that is in the Land the Land mourns because of oaths and fighters strikers and drunkards and all manner of wickedness so that men if they can but have a kinde of a custom of preaching and telling what the Prophets and Apostles spoke And to have a fellow to have so much in the year to read it and expound it or preach it as they call it and people to come once a week to hear him so then after some to the Ale-house drinking and some fighting and swearing and cursing when many hath been moved of the Lord to go into their Assemblies and to speak what they have been moved of the Lord to speak in the time of their speaking some striking with Bibles some with fists some with stones and some haled to the stocks and before Magistrates and so to prison and say they have broken Queen Maries Law which Law guarded all the Papists and Jesuits which Law guards the Priests in England now so then you are under the popish act and his power which is to be condemned with the unlimited power which power should limit the spirit of the mighty God of Heaven and Earth who is setting up his own Law who will give liberty to the righteous seed I am moved to warn you to take heed how you make Laws to limit the holy Spirit of God if you do God will turn his sword against you and cut you down A friend of them whom the world calls Quakers when he was brought before the Rulers and Magistrates they asked him what was his name and he said it was hid from the world and the world knew it not and they asked him what his name was and he said they should never know it and then he was free to tell them what the world called him else he saw their deceit And he asked whether they should overcome sin as long as they were here upon the Earth and they said no so then he put them among the Papists in the Purgatory after death The Examination and Accusation of Geo. Fox THe Accusation of George Fox being the name as the world calls him by late of Drayton in Leicestershire taken at Carlisle the first of August saith as the world saith He was born in Leicestershire and that he is in perfect memory at this time and that he hath attained to perfection and that he hath been in Heaven and that there is but one Son of God and that he is risen and speaketh to us now here and that he doth not commit sin for he that is born of God sinneth not neither can he have any remorse for sin he that is born of God neither can he because he is born of God and the seed of God remaineth in him and that the Saints upon the Earth doth judge the hearts and that Thomas Cresters did sin in tempting him by propounding some Questions to him And he saith That the Bible is a Decsaration of the word of God and not the Word but God is the Word and that which he speaks is true Scripture and there is but One and that which he speaks is Truth and Eternal you shall witness it speaking to Wilfro Lawson and others then present And being demanded why he came into the place he said he was moved of the Lord of Heaven and Earth to speak to the Consciences of men and that particularly the words that he did speak did harden Thomas Cresters heart and that he now sees the face of God as wel as the faces of them that were present at this Examination he being asked why he continued in the meeting-place after he was wished to depart he said Whether is it better to obey God or man by the means to avoid tumuits and disorder being demanded likewise whether he would stay in this place he saith he must stay lo long as his Fathers Will is And when I began to declare against the deceits of the Priests and how they acted contrary to Christ I heard Make him a Mittimus And what I was moved of the Lord to come thither for where every one might have his Teacher and that in all Consciences should witness me eternally The Rulers wives were the first that persecuted in the Steeple-house and stirred up the rude multitude A Prisoner of the Lord at Carlisle and standing accused for witnessing forth that which the Saints witnessed And having a cloud of Scriptures to maintain nhe same that the ignorant and simple may see that it was the righteous seed that ever suffered by the unrighteous seed of evil doers which suffers so Accusation 1. ANd for that I am accused for saying I was in Heaven which I have many witnesses in the Scriptures as followeth Paul said he was caught up into the third
the form of the Prophets and Holy men of God conditions but not the life as you have now the form of Christ the Prophets and Apostles for had you had the life of Jesus Christ you would have owned him whom you persecuted but kept peace or had you owned the Law of God which was made for sinners you would not have imprisoned the just who in love for your souls good came to declare the Truth to you whom you put him under a cruel Tyrant Jaylors hand who strook him in prison when he spoke not a word to him And as for speaking to Willfro Lawson and them that was present what he spoke was true Scripture and the Scripture was but one it all being given forth by the inspiration of the Spirit and the Spirit is but one that gave it forth and the holy Ghost is but one which the holy men of God was moved to speak it from now you that have not this Spirit and the holy Ghost persecute them who are in the one Life and with the one Spirit owns it to be one and such as you persecute them that witness it as your fathers did which gave it forth To the light which Christ hath enlightned every one of you withal I speak which lets you see your evil deeds which you love it it will bring you to repentance of what you have done which light will guide your mindes up to God which if you hate it you hate God and Christ then this light is your condemnation and to you this is true Scripture and the light in your conscience will witness what I speak for you that hate it hate me but it is no marvel for the world ever hated the son of God where he was made manifest as you may read in John there let the Scripture it self judge you And as for saying He was moved of the Lord to speak to that in the consciences of men Holy men of God spake as they was moved by the holy Ghost and the Ministers of God are made manifest to that of God in mans consciences And here again you have cleared your selves from the holy Ghost and the Ministers of the Spirit which ministers to the spirit in prison Oh that ever men should profess the Scripture and persecute the life where it is made manifest but no other fruit is looked from such trees but the Lord is coming to hew down all tree that have cumbred the ground but with the life that gave forth the Scriptures shall you all be judged that act contrary to that in your conscience for to that I speak and that is it which shall witness me and condemn you that hate it As for saying It was better to obey God and man Did not the Apostles ask the same question when they was brought before Magistrates which witnessed forth Christ and they was haled out of the Synagogues and Prisoned and haled before Magistrates And have not you Magistrates shewed your selves to be in the same nature to prison and persecute and slander the innocent And let all see that you have acted contrary to the Scripture and that your wills would be obeyed who prisons him that doth obey God and let the Scripture it self judge you And for asking him How long he could stay in that place his Answer was As long as his Fathers will was And there again you do shew you are acting contrary to the Scripture and the Apostles doctrine who taught the people to say If God will and to stand in his will let the Scripture it self judge you And for saying to avoid disorder where is the power that is terror to evil doers where is the Authoty that keeps in order Oh for shame never profess your selves to be Magistrates had you heard him spoken or acted any thing contrary to the Law then your Law might have been said upon but you but you prisoned him contrary to Law but only your own wills so the just Law of God will take hold upon you and vengeance is the Lords and he will repay it A Discovery of the present practise of the Profession in ENGLAND OH England thou that hast professed the Scripture that which Moses wrote the Law that which the Prophets which was sent of the Lord spake forth that which John Baptist preached which was a burning and shining light that which Christ Jesus the substance of all when he was upon earth and that that he spake after his Resurrection and that that the Apostles spake which was sent of him to preach unto all Nations And thou makes a Profession of what the Apostles wrote to the Saints of God which was come out of the world and which was not of the world of whom the end of the world was come And of them that was come to the General Assemblies of the First-born which are written in heaven and to God the Judge of all and to the spirits of just men made perfect all these you make a profession of in words and your Teachers give meanings to them with their carnal mindes of the outward Letter which was spoken from the life For those that did speak them did possess and enjoy what they spake but you are ignorant of the life of them for where the life of them is made manifest them you do persecute beat and stock and hail to prison as all your generation of professors of an outward thing ever did who knew nothing of the inward O be ashamed and blush and tremble before the Lord God who hath so long worshipped the beast and given all your glory and honor to the beast not knowing the living God nor the first principle that leads to life And that your Leaders and Teachers denies the light which Christ Jesus saith he hath enlightned every one that comes into the world with all And that the power of the Lord which causes trembling and quaking which all the holy men of God that ever heard the voyce of God which is terrible which shakes the earth ever witnessed while the earth was standing in them And this you call Impostures and Delusions and of the Devil which makes manifest that you know nothing of God nor never heard his voyce nor seen his face Oh woful and miserable is your condition which wars against the living God your condition is more miserable then any that ever went before you You say you have the word of God and that which you call your word is a Declaration of the eternal Word which Christ and the Apostles spake forth Christ Jesus said I go and prepare a place for you I will come again and receive you unto my self that where I am there you may be also Jesus Christ saith I am the resurrection and the life and he said Glorifie thy son that thy son also may glorifie thee and as thou hast given him power over all flesh that he may give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him Now if any come to witness