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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A13160	A challenge concerning the Romish Church, her doctrine & practises, published first against Rob. Parsons, and now againe reuiewed, enlarged, and fortified, and directed to him, to Frier Garnet, to the archpriest Blackevvell and all their adhærents, by Matth. Sutcliffe. Thereunto also is annexed an answere vnto certeine vaine, and friuolous exceptions, taken to his former challenge, and to a certeine worthlesse pamphlet lately set out by some poore disciple of Antichrist, and entituled, A detection of diuers notable vntrueths, contradictions, corruptions, and falsifications gathered out of M. Sutcliffes new challenge, &c.	Sutcliffe, Matthew, 1550?-1629.; Sutcliffe, Matthew, 1550?-1629. Briefe replie to a certaine odious and slanderous libel.	1602 (1602)	STC 23454; ESTC S117867	337,059	440

and last resolution for matters of faith argument 15 The Church of Christ neuer burned the scriptures no albeit there were errors in the Gréeke translation of Theodosion and Symachus and the seuentie interpreters and in all the Latin translations the vulgar and olde edition not excepted z yet did the true church neuer burne the scriptures for that was practised by Dioclesian and other persecuters of the church and by heathen men rather than by any that carried the name of Christians but the church of Rome hath caused Gods holy word to be burnt vnder pretence of false translations which notwithstanding she was neuer able to prooue to be false she doth therefore plainly declare her selfe to be the synagogue of Satan and not of Christ argument 16 The true Church did neuer prohibit the scriptures to be publikely read in such tongues as the people of God were able to vnderstand nor did she euer condemne them and burne them for hereticks that read them in vulgar tongues for our sauior commanded his apostles to teach all nations and no question but it was lawfull to teach them as well by writing as by word In Psal 86. S. Hierome saith that scriptures do not only belong to priests but also to the people Non scripserunt saith he speaking of the holy apostles paucis sed vniuerso populo and our sauiour where he commanded his auditours to search the scriptures meant that it should be lawfull for all to read them finally what is more vnreasonable séeing the scriptures conteine Gods holy lawes and his eternall testament than that the lawes of God should not be red in a knowen tongue and that it should not be lawfull for children to vnderstand their heauenly fathers testament and last will but the Romish congregation prohibiteth the scriptures to be publikely read in vulgar tongues and i Index libr. prohib à Pio 9. prohibiteth all translations but such as themselues set forth which are most wicked peruerse The bloody inquisitors haue also burned diuers poore people for reading scriptures in English as appeareth by the Registers of Lincolne and London in king Henry the eighth his daies Finally Nauarrus a braue Romish doctor teacheth that it is mortall sinne for a lay man to dispute of religion Laicus disputans de fide saith k In primum praecept c. 11. Nauarrus peccat mortaliter argument 17 Our sauior Christ l Iohn 4. teacheth vs that all true worshippers do worship God in spirit and trueth Venit hora nunc est saith our sauior quando veri adoratores adorabant patrem in spiritu veritate And God by his prophet m Isay 29. Matth. 15. Isay doth condemne his people that honored him with their lips their hearts being farre from him The apostle also Coloss 2. would not haue Christians condemned in respect of meat drinke and holy daies and reprooueth those that make decrées concerning touching and tasting and such like ceremonies he doth also vtterly n 1. Cor. 14. condemne praiers in a strange language and not vnderstood of those that vse them but the worship of God which the papists vse and most commend doth wholly consist in externall ceremonies as knocking lifting vp of the Sacrament censing lights and such like they also rather honor God with their lips then their hearts not vnderstanding what they say thinking that to gaze on the masse is to serue God finally they haue many decrées concerning meats drinks saints daies and also concerning touching and tasting and such like is it not then apparent that they are no true worshippers argument 18 The Church of o Exod. 20. Christ doth worship but one God according to this commandement Thou shalt haue no other gods but me and according to the words of p Matth. 4. Christ Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God and him only shalt thou serue but the papists worship the images of God as God himselfe and giue as much honor to the image as to the originall Cum Christus saith q P. 3. q. 25. art 3. Thomas Aquinas adoretur adoratione latriae consequens est quod eius imago sit adoratione latriae adoranda Séeing as Christ is honored with diuine worship saith he it followeth that his image is also to be worshipped with diuine worship and friers in their sermons speaking to the crucifix are wont to say to it Thou hast redeemed vs thou hast reconciled vs to thy father which r Bellar. de cult imag lib. 2. c. 23. Bellarmine himselfe can not deny he confesseth also that images may be worshipped with that honor that is due to the originall Admitti potest imagines posse col● improprie vel per accidens eodem genere cultus quo exemplum ipsum colitur they also worship the Sacrament with diuine worship and fall downe before it but neither are images gods nor is the Sacrament God Finally they confesse that the worship of seruice or doulia is due to saints and this they wil not deny how then can they shew that they worship and serue one true God argument 19 The catholike church only saith ſ Instit 4. c. vlt. Lactantius doth reteine the true worship of God neither can any society be termed Gods church which reteineth not Gods true worship but the papists doe not reteine Gods true worship for first they worship God according to the doctrines and commandements of men which our Sauiour t Matth. 15. Christ condemneth secondly they giue diuine honor to creatures as we shewed in our last argument thirdly their worship consisteth principally in the sacrifice of the masse which is nothing els but a masse of many superstitions impieties and blasphemies as I haue shewed particularly and largely in my treatise of the masse against Bellarmine argument 20 The true church of Christ beléeueth that Iesus Christ is perfect God and perfect man and that Christ Iesus is ascended vp into heauen and sitteth at the right hand of his father for these two points are articles of our faith the first being in termes conteined in the créed of Athanasius the second being expressed in the apostles créed but the papists attributing to Christ in the sacrament such a body as is neither visible nor palpable and can neither sée nor féele nor helpe himselfe nor others being oftentimes deuoured by mise and other brute beasts cannot shew how these qualities can be in a perfect man neither can they shew that a perfect man is both in heauen and in earth and in many places at once or that the flesh of Christ can be properly in heauen and earth and not onely beléeued but also apprehended with mens hands and téeth u Cōtr. Eutyth lib. 4. c. 4. Vigilius saith that the flesh that is in heauen is not in earth Fulgentius writing to Thrasimundus saith that the bodie of Christ hath the properties of a true body x De resur carn Tertullian teacheth vs that the body of Christ

obseruation againe desire me to procure him a free conference but what shall that néede when I yéeld him more then is desired Notwithstanding if he thinke to winne any thing at my hands by conference let him procure me first a frée conference at Paris and Salamanca and I doe promise to procure him a frée conference at Cambridge and Oxford In the meane while I pray him I prouoke him I by all means vrge him to answere in writing such lies as I auerre his consorts to haue made and to cleare the Church of Rome and her principall proctors of such notorious falsifications as I say they haue committed If he be not able as indéede I take him to be altogither vnsufficient let Robert Parsons Frier Garnet or the Archpriest answere and maintaine the quarrell which this idle compagnion hath begun And let them set their names to their writings and come foorth with bare faces that wee may know what they are we deale with and not as hitherto fight with N.D.E.O. and such like hollowe fellowes and meere shadowes If not let them assure themselues I wil by publike writing discouer such a packe of impostures lies falsifications villanies and treasons committed by Rob. Parsons and his consorts that they shall wish Owlyglasse hanged that first prouoked me and beganne this quarrell I will also make it knowne that they are so guiltie that they cannot answere His second obseruation is that no credit is to bee giuen vnto me concerning matter of fact because in matters of faith and learning as he saith I make no scruple to corrupt and vse broad falsification But his collection is so childish and foppish that his owne clients if they list may sée that he knoweth not what concerneth fact and what concerneth faith and learning that distingusheth learning from matter of fact as if no learning were required of Ro. Parsons to discusse matters of fact and would make f●ith and learning both one as if his consorts that take themselues to be learned were also faithfull christians and teacheth that the controuersie concerning falsifications and vntruthes obiected by him toucheth faith and not fact as if we did not as well contend about matter of fact as faith in this idle quarell begonne by our aduersarie and wherein the state of the mayne controuersie is whether I haue spoken vntruth or not and whether I haue falsified any authors alledged by me or not Secondly if no credit be giuen to those that tell lyes and falsifie authors as Owlyglasse affirmeth then by his sentence we are not to beléeue either the pope of Rōe or his agents the most notorius lyers falsifirrs that euer the world sustained Againe if no credit be to be giuē vnto my discourse concerning the packing trechery of his consorts why doth he not answere me and conuince mee of vntruth And what reason hath he to desire his readers not to beleeue that which himselfe is not able to controule Is not such a bald compagnion ashamed to take to him as much authority as the Pope that all the generation of antichriste is to beleeue vpon his owne bare word Thirdly if all his idle obiectiōs concerning pretended corruptions and falsifications he so cleared as that I looke for no more answere of so nastie a disputer as this Owlyglasse is then it can be no credit for him to cry so loud or to vse these odious and slaundrous termes of corruptions and falsificatiōs but he ought rather to looke downe vpon his owne and his consorts filthy factes then to pinche at others mēs faultes Fourthly if the papistes his clients be so cleare as he maketh them why doth he not answere for them playnly and honestly refuting euery point of my charge If they be guiltie why doth he not rayle a spirt at Rob. Parsons that so foolishly brought them forth to this triall and there left them to speake for themselues Fifthly if he list not to excuse any Papist for the cariage of his life as he confesseth what reason hath he to blame me if I vpon so iust occasions giuen me by that rinegat and false traytor Rob Parsons haue toulde them some parte of their faultes Sixtly if he will not haue my verdict admitted against his clients though conuinced by playne euidence witnesse he hath no reason to require that the verdict of Robert Parsons a most notorious and infamous libeller and a knowne and professed traytor and an infamous person conuicted by his owne wicked and treasonable writings and by the testimony of his owne consorts or the accusations of such libellers as Owlyglasse and such worthlesse and namelesse fellowes should be admitted or receiued Againe if he wil haue nothing to be affirmed without authenticall testimony proofe then must he and his malicious mates forbeare to send forth so many vaine and fabulous pamphlets 7. Further if hee charge me hereafter with wilfull and witting falsification as he sticketh not very boldly and often to doe then must he proue first falsification then this quality of wilfull knowledge wherof hytherto he hath done neither againe if I obiect that to him which he cannot deny then modesty would require that he should confesse shame force him not to defend any more matters knowne notoriously to be false 8. If hee take to himselfe and his consorts the name of Catholike Church and will néedes charge me with a setled malice and desperat resolution against the Catholike Church he must proue two thinges First that Popish religion is the ancient catholike religion and next that I oppugne the catholike faith Vnles he doe this his reader will take him for a lewd begging compagnion that taketh that for granted that is in controuersie and we must accompt him for a paltry fellowe that is not able to answere our arguments whereby we proue that Popish religion which we refuse is neither catholike nor ancient 9. If boldly and falsely he will denie that our faith hath had continuance and succession from Christs time and challeng both to himselfe he must then deny that the faith taught in the Apostles créede and established in the fowre first general counsels and contained and grounded vpon the holy canonicall scriptures hath alwayes continued since Christs time and hath had continuall succession vntill our dayes And to prooue the Popish faith he must shew that the Apostles taught and that the holy fathers beléeued First that Christ had a body inuisible and impalpable and that might be in heauen and earth and many distant places all at one time secondly that Christs body did not fill the place wherein it was 3. That accidentes may subsist without foundation or subiect 4 that préestes may celebrate masse without communion 5 that the préestes may take away the cuppe of the newe testament from Gods people 6 that christians are to worship the crosse and the sacrament with Latria or diuine worship 7 that the préest doth offer vp the true body and bloud of Christ to God the

In offic beat Mariae to a woodden crosse increase in the godly righteousnesse and pardon sinners and also crux Christi protege me crux Christi defende me ab omni malo and which before the printed face which they call Volto santo pray thus Salue sancta facies impresta panniculo nos ab omni macula purga vitiorum atque nos consortio iunge beatorum argument 62 Catholikes beléeue that their sacrifices of praise are accepted through Christ but papists beléeue that Christes bodie is accepted through the mediation of the priest and of saints the priest in the canon beséecheth God to looke fauourably vpon the body and blood of Christ Supra quae saith he propitio ac sereno vultu respicere digneris and in the missal of Sarum on Batildis day they pray that God would accept their sacrifice viz. of Christes body and blood through the merits of S. Batildis vt haec munera tibi Domine accepta sint say they sanctae Batildis obtineant merita quae seipsam tibi hostiam viuam sanctam bene placentem exhibuit argument 63 Catholikes beléeue that the apostles and their successours receiued the keyes of the kingdome of heauen and power to binde and loose onely vpon earth but the papists beléeue that the pope hath receiued the keyes of the kingdome of hell and purgatory Damascen and other authors of Romish legends tell vs that Gregory the first deliuered Traians soule out of hel and euery pety pope thinketh he is abused if any tell him that he can not let out of purgatory as many as he pleaseth Commonly all papists pray for the dead that they may haue a place of rest giuen them and that their sinnes may be pardoned them as if sinnes might be forgiuen after this life argument 64 Catholikes neither worshipped saints departed nor their images nor the crosse of Christ Hierome in an epistle to Ripatius denieth that any creature is to be worshipped or adored d Lib. 22. deciuit Dei c. 10. Augustine sheweth that Christians did not worship martyrs nor erect temples in honor of them and saith that they gaue thanks and praise vnto God onely at their monuments ecclesia catholica mater Christianorum verissima saith e De morib eccles lib. 1. c. 30. he solum ipsum deum cuius adeptio vita est beatissima purissimè atque castisimè colendum praedicat nullam nobis adorandam creaturam inducens cui seruire iubeamur whereby plainly he excludeth the worship of Doulia f De obitu Theodosij Ambrose declareth that Helene finding the crosse worshipped not the crosse but Christ but the papists worship not onely the saints but dumbe images they say masses in honor of S. Francis and S. Dominicke and diuers other saints they knéele to images and burne incense vnto them finally they giue Latriam that is due by their owne confession to God only to the crosse to the crucifix and to the images of the Trinity argument 65 True catholicks neuer made the images of God the father or the holy trinity nor did thinke it lawfull to worship them with diuine worship but the papists both make such images and allow such worship to be giuen to them argument 66 True catholicks neuer had any psalter in honor of our blessed Lady nor vsed to say a hundred and 50. Auemariaes and after euery fifty Auemariaes one Creed and after euery tenne Auemaries one Pater Noster nay our sauiour expressly forbad his desciples to vse battologies and odious repetitions in their praiers But papists put great religion in our Ladies psalter and in their rosaries and often repetitions of the name of Iesu and of their Auemariaes argument 67 True catholicks neuer coniured salt nor holy water nor oile nor chrisme nor superstitiously sanctified candles crosses and images in such sort as the papists vse to doe neither did they grease stone alters or describe the Gréeke alphabet on the pauement of churches to be consecrated or abuse the scriptures as the papists doe in that act as may appeare by the formulary commonly vsed in such cases that ancient catholicks neuer vsed any such ceremonies it may appeare by the writings of the fathers and also in old rituall books for in them such formes of consecrations exorcizations and such abuses are not to be found argument 68 True g Iohn 4. catholicks worship God in spirit and trueth but the papists place most of Gods worship in externall ceremonies and vse in their worship a tong not vnderstood so that their praiers cannot procéed from the spirit nor be true nor catholicke argument 69 True catholicks neuer worshipped angels h Coloss 2. the apostle Paule doth expressly condemne the worship of them as Chrysostome Theodoret Oecumenius writing vpon the 2. and 3. chap. of the epistle to the Colossians do testifie the councell of Laodicea doth also prohibit the worship of Angels and Saint i De hares c. 39. Augustine numbreth the worshippers of Angels among hereticks Neither may we thinke that they were therefore condemned because they atrtibuted the creation of the world to angels but because they worshipped angels and as Chrysostome homil 7. in coloss 2. affirmeth thought we were to come to God by the mediation of angels and yet papists k Horae ad vsum sacrum pray to angels that they would protect them and driue diuils from them and open their sight they say also masses in their honor set vp lights to them make confession of their sinns to them and all this contrary to the practise of the ancient catholicke church argument 70 Our l Matth. 15. sauiour Christ teacheth that those worship God in uaine which worship him according to the doctrines and commandements of men and therefore all true catholicks haue had principall respect herein to the commandements and lawes of God but the Romish church doth wholy depend vppon the decretales of popes and vaine fancies of men their missals breuiaries offices and whole seruice procéedeth from no other fountaine argument 71 The m Psal 32. prophet declareth that they are blessed whose iniquities are forgiuen and whose sinns are couered and the apostle saith that being instified by faith we haue peace with god and this is the hope of all catholicks that Christ hath reconciled vs to his father and washed away our sinnes and paid a ransome for them on the crosse but this comfort papists doe take from vs that teach and holde that after our sinnes forgiuen we are to satisfie for temporall paines due for our sinnes either here or in purgatory and that such are there to sustaine great torments in which paines and place none but mad men can place felicity argument 72 Catholicks beléeue that through faith we are made partakers of Christs satisfaction the papists beléeue that the pope can apply them by his bulles both in purgatory and in this life according to his lawes argument 73 Catholicks beléeue that no man can satisfie for his

that wicked city then doth it necessarily fellow that the church of Rome now is not the citie and church of God but rather the malignant church synagogue of Satan adhering to Antichrist and opposite to Christ and his church but that the state of new Rome and of the Romish sect as it adhereth to the pope and is the fountaine and metropolitane citie from whence all idolatry heresie and superstition stoweth is meant by the purple whore Apocalyp 17. and by Babylon Apocalyp 18. diuers arguments may teach vs. first the order of S. Iohns reuelation doth shew it for after that in the 12. chapter and in the beginning of the thirtéenth he had described the state of olde Rome vnder the Romane emperors and foreprophecied the ruine and decay of that empire and the rising of another state out of the ruines of it there is no likehood that he should returne backe againe to describe the flourishing state of that empire in the seuentéenth chapter or that the holy ghost would relate things confusedly or disorderly secondly he representeth vnto vs the decay of old Rome the arising of Antichrist out of the ruines of it in the end of the thirtéenth chapter and therefore whatsoeuer followeth after that chapter the same with good reason may be drawen to Rome after it came to be vnder the pope whose state is wholly built vpon the fall of the empire and can by 〈◊〉 meanes be applied vnto Rome as it was vnder the Romane emperors Thirdly after the destruction of the purple whore and of Babylon the apostle prophesieth of the end of the world and of the last iudgement as if the one were to follow immediately or at the least not long after the other but we sée the Romane empire long since destroied and nothing remaining but a vaine name or title of it and yet the end of the world and last iudgement is not come the ruine of old Rome therefore by the destruction of the whore and of Babylon is not prefigured but rather the destruction of antichrists seat and kingdome Fourthly the beast which saint Iohn saw and vpon which the purple whoore did sit was not then as she should be as he saith non adhuc erat t Apocal. 17. saith he ex abysso ascensura erat but the Romane empire did most flourish in saint Iohns time and therefore that beast must néeds signifie another state and empire which in Rome was to be erected after the Romane empires decay Fiftly those ten kings which are signified by ten hornes Apocalyps 17. did not arise during the time of the old empire of Rome but vpon the decay of the empire and rising of antichrist for we doe not reade that kings did giue their power to the Romane empire nor had that strong empire any néed of their power but we reade that diuers kings haue giuen their power to the papacie and made themselues slaues to make the popes great lords this therefore must néeds be a figure of the papacy and not of the old Romane empire Sixthly we doe read that the kings of the earth committed fornication with the purple whore and may well vnderstand that the purple whore was a figure of one from whom corruption of doctrine and idolatrous worship should be deriued for that is spirituall fornication but from the Romane emperore we cannot vnderstand that any kings receiued any forme of religion or corrupt doctrine or idolatrous worship this therefore must néeds touch the pope and his sée from whence manifolde superstitions idolatries are deriued into all places and not the imperiall state which regarded but little the state of religion Seuenthly the kings of the earth did rather reioice then lament at the destruction of the Romane empire for vpon the ruines thereof they built their own kingdomes and states but diuers kings that are linked with the Pope haue lamented his losses the king of Spaine wept when he heard of the euill successe of English rebels which the pope u Vita de Pio 5. Pius the fift stirred vp hoping by them againe yet once more to recouer footing in England Eightly the purple whore Apocalypse 17. is called the mother of fornications or idolatry which is termed in scripture spirituall fornication this prophecy therefore doeth rather touch the popish idolatry corruption in religion than the ciuill gouernment Ninthly after the empire of Rome began to decay the state of christian religion began to flourish in Rome and therefore that which is said of Rome that it shall after the reuelation of the whore become the habitation of diuels and vncleane spirits cannot be spoken of old Rome after whose decay religion began to flourish but of new Rome vnder the popes which is now become a receptacle of all abominations and filthinesse 10. This Rome that is described Apocalyps 17. shall persecute the saints néere to the end of the world as may be gathered out of saint Iohns reuelation this therefore belongeth to the pope and his bloody inquisitors and not to the old Rome whose persecutions are long since ceased 11. The description of the purple whore and of Babylon doeth best fit the state of Rome vnder the subiection of the pope the great whore is said to sit vpon many waters and to inuegle the kings of the earth with her spirituall fornications she was clad with purple and sclarlet and set out with gold and precious stones she had in her hand a golden cup full of abhominations and in her forhead was written this word mysterium and great Babylon the mother of fornications and abominations of the earth finally it is said she was drunke with the bloud of martyrs Babylon also is called an habitation of diuels and a receptacle of foule spirits and vncleane birds and saint Iohn saith the nations of the earth did drinke of the wine of the wrath of her fornication and that kings did commit fornication with her and marchants grew rich with trading with her so likewise the pope doeth rule many nations and hath wonne the kings of the earth to like his corrupt and idolatrous doctrine he and his religion also is decked with all precious furniture and nothing séemeth more gallant in externall shew like a woman the pope preuailed by fraud periury and pretence of great mysteries and from him all abominations and corruptions procéeded it is he and no other that for this foure or fiue hundred yeres hath persecuted the saints of God and to him the kings of the earth yéeld their forces and are ready to execute his sentences and excommunications beside that neuer was more vncleannesse nor filthinesse practised by any than by the Romish Sodomiticall and lecherous monks and priests nor was there euer in any place more buying and selling of all things than in the Romish church lastly Arethas and Ambrosius Ansbertus writing vpon the Apocalypse say that new Rome may be vnderstood by Babylon and Petrarch doubteth not in plaine termes to

neither visible nor palpable neither that he filleth a place or is conteined in one place nay they say he is substantially in euery one that receiueth the sacrament and not that onely but also in euery pixe and consecrated host argument 32 The Eutychianists deny that Christ after the vnion of the two natures had a true body but as x De ieiun 7. mens ser 6. Leo signifieth a bodie without shape dimensions or circumscription they said also that Christ was whole both in heauen and earth against whom Vigilius disputing y Lib 4. contr Eutych c. 4. saith that the flesh of Christ when it was in in earth was not in heauen and now being in heauen is not in earth and their chiefe ground was that Christes humane nature was abolished euen as the mysticall signes are changed into another nature after the consecration of the sacrament for this is plainly apparent in Theodorets second Dialogue Who then vnderstandeth not that the papists by their transubstantiation do bring in Eutychianisme holding that Christes body in the sacrament is without all shape and dimensions that may be perceiued and that his body is both in heauen and earth at one time also in as many altars and places as the sacrament is who doth not likewise perceiue that Christes humanitie is abolished if the substance of bread and wine be abolished in the sacrament especially if the vnion of the two natures in Christes person be fitly resembled by the fathers to the sacrament This certes is a matter very euident that both Theodoret dialog 1. and Gelasius writing against Eutyches doth confute his heresie by this reason for that the substance of the bread remaineth in the sacrament which being denied by papists is it not very plaine that they reduce and bring backe into the world the old decaied heresie of Eutyches argument 33 The papists also in many points conspire with the enemies of the grace of God the Pelagians z Augustin de haeres c. 88. Pelagius saith that without grace a man may doe all Gods commandements Voluit credi saith Augustine etiam si difficilius tamen posse homines sine gratia diuina facere iussa and a De grat lib. arb lib. 5. c. 5. c. 9. Bellar. saith Solis naturae viribus posse aliquem ad breuissimum tempus omnia seruare scilicit diuina mandata he shifteth off the matter with saying quoad substantiam operis but that no question but the Pelagians would also admit Pelagius said also that grace is infused according to merit The papists also teach that men doing quantum in se est God is present with his grace and this they call meritum congrui or preparations to iustification they do not deny also but after a man hath grace he may merit a greater measure of grace thirdly both Pelagians and papists agrée in the definition of sinne Propriè vocatur peccatum saith b Vid. August contra Iulian. de grat Pelagius quod libera voluntate à sciente committitur so also say the papists as appeareth by the censure of Coleine Againe the Pelagians teach that a iust man in this life may be without sinne Hoc Pelagiani audent dicere saith S. c De bono perseuerant lib. 2. c. 5. Augustine hominem iustum in hac vita omnino nullum habere peccatum and in his booke of heresies c. 88. he sheweth it is Pelagianisme to holde that the life of iust men in this life hath no sinne d Lib. 4. de iustif c. 11. Bellar. also holdeth that a man is able to performe the law perfectly of which it followeth that a man may be without all sinne for how can a man fulfill the law but he must be without all sinne All papists generally hold that all iust men are without mortall sinnes The Pelagians doe e Augustin contra Iulian. lib. 6. c. 6. teach that concupiscence by baptisme is sanctified and being before euill doth afterward begin not to be euill which doctrine S. Augustine calleth very absurd yet from this doctrine can not the papists cleare themselues when they teach that concupiscence after baptisme and in the regenerat is no sinne The Pelagians would not grant that the Gentiles sinned in all their actions nor that their actions were sinne as done without faith as S. f Contra Iulian lib. 4. c. 3. Augustine sheweth no more will the papists grant it as appeareth by Bellarmines disputes lib. 5. de grat lib. arb c. 5. 9. nay they sticke not to hold that they may do all good works according to the substance of the worke The g Contr. dua● epist Pelag. c. 19. Pelagians were woont to say in omni bono opere hominem semper adiuuari à gratia and h Ibid. lib. 4. c. 6. againe gratiam adiuuare bonum cuiusque propositum and Bellar. likewise lib. 2. de grat lib. arb c. 5. disputeth that God according to time and place giueth grace sufficient to all men The i August lib. 1. de grat c. 28. Pelagians say nos forte firmum habere ad non peccandum liberum arbitrium and S. k Lib. 2. de baptismo Augustine teacheth vs that this doctrine is Pelagianisme yet doe the papists hold that sinne is subiect to our will as the censurers of Coleyn doe speake Bellarmine also lib. 5. de grat lib. arb in diuers places alloweth this power to frée will to be able to doe good and to absteine from sinne The Pelagians deny orignall sinne as saint Augustine lib. de haeres c. 88. teacheth and most papists now hold that the virgine Mary was conceiued without originall sinne as appereth by the testimony of Bellarmine lib. 4. de amissione grat c. 15. now to deny originall sinne to be in any is Pelagianisme as Bellarmine lib. de notis ecclesiae c. 9. disputeth Saint Augustinne l Contra. epist Pelag. lib. 4. c. 6. 8. de grat lib 1. c. 14. teacheth vs that it is Pelagianisme to hold that God is ready with his grace if he see a mans soule ready and prepared to receiue it and that a naturall man may desire his owne conuersion and yet the papists will not denie these propositions nor seeme to dislike them S. m In Hierem. 13. Hierome saith that the Pelagians did interpret these sentences our iustice is like a cloth of a menstruous woman and no man is good no not one in this sort as if the holie Ghost had ment that man in comparison of God is not iust or good which is also the sleight and cunning interpretation of papists Both Pelagians and Papists vse the same reasons to prooue the strength of fréewill as first that we are commanded to choose and next that God would not command vs things impossible magnum aliquid se scire putant Pelagiani saith saint n Degrat lib. arb c. 16. Augustine quando dicunt non iuberet deus quod