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A14184 A demonstration of the trueth of that discipline which Christe hath prescribed in his worde for the gouernment of his Church, in all times and places, vntill the ende of the worlde Wherein are gathered into a plaine forme of reasoning, the proofes thereof; out of the scriptures, the euidence of it by the light of reason rightly ruled, and the testimonies that haue beene giuen therevnto, by the course of the churche certaine hundredths of yeares after the Apostles time; and the generall consent of the Churches rightly reformed in these latter times: according as they are alleaged and maintained, in those seuerall bookes that haue bin written concerning the same. Udall, John, 1560?-1592. 1588 (1588) STC 24499; ESTC S103026 63,031 134

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the execution of any discipline and therefore of this poynt belongeth vnto the Eldership which point is prooued in the seuerall chapters going before so that I need not saye any thing of this sauing with a reason or twayne to shewe the necessitie and benefit of it in the Church of God 1 That whiche priuate men offended are commaunded to seeke vnto for the redresse of the offender is a necessarie an ordinary way for the amendment of them that doe offend in the Church of God But such is the admonition of those that are in authoritie and cary the name of the Church Matth. 18. 15. see chap. 14. and the 1. proposition of the same Therefore admonition in such cases by the Eldership is a necessary and ordinary way for their amendment that do offend 2 That which is more auaylable to bring the offender to repentance then priuate admonition eyther by one or moe that same is verye profitable necessarie in the Church of God But such is the publike admonition by the gouernours of the Church as appeareth by this that Christe maketh it a remedy when the other two will not preuaile Mat. 18. 15. Therfore it is very profitable and necessary in the church of God 3 That which maketh men more afraide to offend then any admonition that priuate men can giue is profitable necessary in the church of God But such is the Eldership before whom men know they shal be brought if they doe not amend Therefore it is very profitable and necessary in the Church of God 4 That which hath a greater promise to do good then priuate admonition is very necessary in the Church of God But such is the admonition that is giuen by the Eldership because it preuayleth when the former doth not Therefore it is profitable in the Church of God 5 That without which all duties of charity cannot be exercised towards sinners is needful to be in the Church of God But without admonition by the Eldershipp all duties of charitie cannot be exercised towards sinners Therfore it is needfull to be in the Church of God 6 That which woulde bridle the outragious sinnes of some and keepe in the derision and mockery that priuate admonitions do receiue is needful to be in the Church of God But this would admonition by the Eldershipp doe for if men knewe that they should answere vnto the Churche for their ill demeanour to them that rebuke them for sinning they woulde refraine at least for feare from such kinde of outrage Therefore it is needful to be in the Churche of God Therefore seeing publike admonition before the Eldership is to be sought by those that are offended and cannot be satisfied seeing it is more auayleable then priuate admonition seeing it maketh men more afraid to offend seing it hath a greater promise seeing without it all duties of charity cannot be exercized towards the sinner lastly seeing it would bridle the outragious sinnes of many Therfore it must needs followe that it is very profitable and necessary to be in the Church of God CHAP. 18. THose that be not reclaimed from their faultes by admonition are by the Eldership to be suspended frō the Lords supper or being officers of the church from the execution of their office vntil they do eyther giue good testimony of their amendment or iust cause to be further proceeded against Neyther is there any controuersie betwixt them and vs about this poynt sauing that as in the former they will denie it to appertaine to the Eldership which is prooued before I will therefore for their vnderstanding that desire direction in the trueth firste shewe that it is a course that hath warrant in the scriptures secondly that it is of very profitable vse in the Church of God the first is thus proued 1 Whatsoeuer is enioyned as a duetie to be done by euery christian if he leaue it vndone he is to be compelled by the gouernours of the Church to doe it Luke 14. 17. 23. But if a mans brother haue any thing against him he make no conscience to leaue his gifte there be first reconciled Matth. 5. 24. he is to be compelled to do it Therefore separation from the Lordes supper is warranted by the word 2 If that commandement of Christe Matth. 7. 6. giue not that which is holy vnto doggs can neyther be properly vnderstood of them that were neuer of the Churche nor them that be excommunicated then is it a warraunt for such separation of the vnworthy and consequently that separation is warranted in the word But the former is true as appeareth by this that the meanest of the Iewes did knowe that holy things belonged to neyther of them and so the commandement had beene needlesse Therefore suspention is warranted by the word 3 If there be sinners that are not to be excōmunicated and yet it were offensiue to giue thē the Lords supper then is this course warranted by the word for els should Christ haue left his Church destitute of direction in common and vsuall difficulties which is prooued in the first chap. to be otherwise But such sinners there are as the notorious sinner repenting men mainly suspected of notorious transgressions c. Therfore suspention hath his warrant in the worde 4 The course that God prescribed in the shadow for corporal purifyings must in the body in respect of the substaunce be obserued in the spirituall clensing of euery member of the Church But many were separated from the publike sacrifices for a season by reason of their corporall vncleanes who yet were not worthy to be excommunicated Therefore must also some be kept from the Lordes supper for a season who yet appeare not so haynously to haue sinned as to deserue excommunication 5 The church cannot without great offence suffer one that hath fallen into some open sin or that is vehemently suspected to haue haynously offended continue in the administration of any publike function But the Churche cannot iustly displace suche a man at the first making shew of repentaunce or standing vpon his purgation Therefore he must be separated for a time 6 That which was commaunded vnder the law to be done to the priest that was vncleane in body or suspected to be a leaper that same must much more vnder the Gospell be done vnto the minister or other Church officer that hath sinned or is suspected to haue committed a great sinne But such a priest was to be separated from offring of sacrifices for a certaine time Therefore much more must the like be done to a Church officer in the like case Therefore if the Churche bee to compell a priuate man to doe his duetie if giue not holy things to doggs be vnderstood of them within the church if there be sinners that cannot with out offence be admitted to the Lords supper yet deserue not excommunication if for corporall vncleannes vnder the law they were to abstaine a certaine time and if
vnto Christ if euery kingdome must be ruled by the lawes of their king and if the cannon lawe be ordained to destroy the Churche if it was inuented to persecute the churche if it strengthen the power of darkenesse and ignoraunce if it kill the Churche of God if it breede moe traiterous papistes then the Seminaries at Rome and Rhemes if it nowrishe the hope of Antichrists returne lastly if all the Churches that haue forsaken the pope haue cast it of also yea if we our selues do mislike it then must it needs follow that the Church ought to be gouerned onely by that golden rule of Gods word not by that leaden lump of the cannon law CHAP. 15. THe office of the Church gouernment is meere Ecclesiasticall and therefore the gouernors of the church may not meddle but onely in church-matters as for example vocation and abeycation deciding of controuersies in doctrine and manners so far as appertayneth to consience and the church censures T. C. booke 1. pag 206 Discipl Eccle. 126. but they thinke that church-gouernours may also meddle in ciuill causes VVhitgifte page 749 their practize that take vpon them to be Councellors of state to iudge ciuilly as punishe with imprisonment c. But this is disprooued and so the former prooued by these reasons 1 That which our sauiour Christ refused because it belonged not vnto him ruling teaching the church that same is not lawfull for any Ecclesiast person to do But christ refused to deuide the inheritance Luke 12. 14. onely because he came to buylde a spirituall kingdome for otherwise he being God had authoritye ouer all thinges Therefore it is not lawfull for Ecclesiasticall persons to bee iudges of ciuill causes 2 That which was forbidden the Apostles is vnlawfull for euery Ecclesiasticall officer for they were the chiefe vnder christ and had after a sort all offices in themselues vntil they could plant them in others But such dominion was forbidden them as the kinges of the nations other ciuill magistrates haue Luk. 22. 28. which is to rule ciuilly Therefore they may not exercise any ciuill authority 3 If necessary dueties are to be lefte rather then our duties to the Churche shoulde not be thorowly discharged then may not a churche officer deale in ciuill iurisdiction which is lesse necessary vnto him But the former is true as appeareth by the words of Christ to him that woulde haue buried his father Luke 6. 59. 60. Therefore they may not exercise any ciuil authority 4 If he that hath an office must attend vpon it then may he not meddle in another for hee cannot attend them both at once But the former is true Rom. 12. 7. Therfore may no church officer meddle with temporall iurisdiction 5 As the Souldiour is in his warfare so are church officers in the ruling of Gods church But the Soldior entangleth not himselfe in the things of this life because they are of another nature to his warfare which place Cyprian alleadgeth againste a minister that became an executour to his friendes will Therefore church-officers may not meddle with ciuill offices because they are of another nature then his calling 6 Those thinges that in themselues are of contrary quallitie cannot concurre in one subiect But the gouernments of the church and common wealth be such not onely in this that they are the next speciall members of one generall but also in that the one is spirituall and the other temporall the one respecteth the soule and the other the bodie Therefore they cannot bee in one man together and consequently c. 7 If the gouernment of the churche both in euery particular mans office and in the generall Eldership be a matter of great waight the ability of man very small in euery good action then may not a church-officer meddle in another calling whereby he is made lesse able to discharge his dutie But the former is true as all men may see that looke into the worde of God what is required of such men and knowe by the same worde the manifolde infirmities vntowardnes of man Therfore the latter must needs be true also 8 If the Apostles who were the most able of all others found themselues vnfitt for two offices which were both Ecclesiasticall then is the best church-gouernour vnfit for two which be of more difference one from another as be the gouernment of the church and commonwelth But the former is true as appeareth Actes 6. 2. Therefore the latter must needs be true also 9 That which we iustly reprooue in the papists must needs if we do like be founde more vnlawfull and intollerable in our selues But we iustly reprooue the papists for hauing in their hands both the swordes that is the Ecclesiasticall and ciuill iurisdiction Therefore it is more intollerable being found in any of vs. 10 If it be lawfull for an ecclesiasticall person to exercise the office of the ciuill magistrate then on the contrary it is lawfull for the ciuill magistrate to exercise the offices of Ecclesiasticall persons for there is as good reason for the one as the other But the latter is vnlawfull for who would like of any L. Mayor to step into the pulpit and preach c. Therefore the first is vnlawfull also 11 They may not intangle themselues with worldly offices but attende vpon their Ecclesiasticall affaires 12 None of the Clarkes or cleargie shall receiue any charge of those whiche are vnder age the cause of that decree is there said to be for that there were certain ministers that were stuards to noble men and in the 7. cannon that none of them shoulde receiue any secular honors 13 The BB. shall onely attende vnto prayer reading and preaching 14 He bringeth diuers reasons to prooue that BB. may neither vsurpe nor take being offered vnto them any ciuill office 15 He sheweth how the offices are to be distinguished and in what sort it is sayde that the fathers delt in the things of this life and howe the corporal punishments by the Apostles were perticular and extraordinary 16 When both the offices meet in one man the one hindereth the other so that he that exerciseth the one cannot minister the other 17 There is no man so wise and holy which is able to exercize both the ciuill and Ecclesiasticall power and therefore he that will exercize the one must leaue the other Therefore if Christ refused to iudge in temporall causes because it belonged not to his office if ciuill dominion was forbidden the Apostles if necessary duties are rather to be lefte vndone then our diligence in the matters of the Churche shoulde bee lessened if hee that hath an office must attende vppon it if wee may not be intangled with any hinderance if the ciuill Ecclesiasticall functions be of contrary natures if euery office in the Church be more then any one can perfectly discharge if the Apostles found themselues vnfit for two offices
of like nature if we iustly reprooue the papists for their two swordes if a magistrate may not preach if they may not meddle with worldly offices nor be tutors to Orphans but attend only vnto the ministery of the word if they may neither vsurpe nor take being offered any ciuill-office if they be to be distinguished to seuerall persons or els one hindereth the other lastly if none be able to execute both then must it needs follow that Ecclesiasticall officers may not beare ciuill offices and consequently the office of the Church-gouernment is meere ecclesiasticall Their obiections hereunto be these 1 Obiection It countenanceth and maintayneth religion to haue ciuill authoritie Ansvvere It is in deed the papists reason for their two swordes which M. Caluin confuteth Institut booke 4. cap. 11. sect 9. 2 Obiection It is good to punishe vice by corporall punishment that Gods word may be the better obeyed Ansvvere It is good to preach Gods word to men that they may obey their prince for conscience sake may the magistrate therefore preach wee may not doe euerye thing that is good but onely that which is agreeable to our callings 3 Obiection Eli and Samuel were both priests and Iudges Ansvvere They were extraordinary for God separated those two offices in Moses and gaue the one vnto Aaron and so was Eliahs killing of the false prophets and Christes whipping of the buyers and sellers out of the Temple 4 Obiection Peter killed Ananias therefore ●B may haue prisons Ansvvere It was by his worde onely and not by anye ciuill punishment if they can doe the like Peters example will serue their turnes if not then must it be with the former extraordinarie CHAP. 16. THe placing and displacing of Church-officers appertaineth vnto the Eldership This is prooued in the 7. chap. and their obiections are there aunswered for the first part which is the placing but the latter part is to be cleared by some mo reasons because the BB. do displace the best ministers at their plesure which is proued to be a most wicked action by these resons 1 Those that are called vnto the ministery by the Lord from heauen and outwardly by the meanes of men so long as they are blameles in doctrine and conuersation 1. Tim. 3. 10. cannot be displaced without hainous wikednes against the manifest will of God But suche are the ministers that the BB. do daily displace as they cōfesse themselues when euen in their sermons they iustifie their doctrine in saying that they differ onely in outward rites and as their greatest enemies will saye when they are asked of such mens liues Therefore they cannot be displaced without great wickednes 2 Those that are carefull to discharge the dutie of Gods ministers both in teaching and giuing example to their flockes cannot be displaced without great impietie Such are these ministers that are daily displaced as appeareth by this that they preache more diligently then any other and that they followe not the course of the worlde in adding liuing vnto liuing but many of them being as worthy for their giftes as the worthiest liue poorely rather then they will want the comfort of a good conscience Therefore they cannot be put to silence without great sinne 3 To depriue Gods people of their spirituall comfort is a grieuous and horrible wickednes To put such to silence as are before mentioned is to depriue Gods people of their spirituall cōfort which if any man will denie all the godly where such a one dwelleth shall tell him hee lyeth Therefore to displace such ministers is a haynous and horrible wickednes 4 That which giueth occasion to the weake to stumble and fall away from the Gospell is a haynous and horrible sinne But such is the displacing of those ministers as appeareth by this that many doubt whether that which he hath taught be true whom the professors of the gospell do displace and by this that many who had made good beginnings by the discontinuance of their teachers doe fall away Therefore to displace those ministers is a haynous and horrible sinne 5 Those whose labours God doth blesse can not be displaced without fighting against God and consequently great impietie But such are these ministers that the BB. doe dayly displace as all that loue the Gospell in euery countrye can witnes Therfore to displace them is great impiety 6 That action which giueth the common enemy iust cause to reioyce and hope to get the victory is a haynous and horrible offence But such is the displacing of those ministers as appeareth in euery country where such ministers are displaced and such enemies do dwell Therfore to displace such is a haynous and horrible offence 7 That action that causeth the doers therof to be esteemed enemies to the gospell must needes be a haynous sinne But such is the putting of those ministers to silence for it maketh the people that haue any loue to religion think that they are not of God in so doing for say they he that loueth Christ cannot crosse the course of the Gospel as these men doe Therefore the displacing of them is a haynous sinne 8 That which letteth in more wickednes at once then the diligent preaching of the worde could driue out in diuers yeeres must needs be a haynous sinne but suche is the displacing of these ministers for prophaning of the Saboth and all disorder commeth into a congregation the same day that such a minister that hath long labored against it is displaced as experience in suche places prooueth Therefore to displace such ministers is a haynous sinne 9 That which interrupteth the course of the Gospell without warraunt eyther from Gods word or the lawes of the land is a haynous and horrible sinne Such is the displacing of those ministers as is proued in al the writings on our side lastly in the answere to D. Bridges therfore to displace such ministers is a haynous horrible sinne Therefore if the ministers that bee vsually displaced be called of God if they discharge the dutie of good ministers both in doctrine and life if the displacing of them bee to depriue Gods people of their spiritual comfort if it giue occasion to some to doubt of the Gospel and to fall away if God giue a blessing vnto their labours if the displacing of them giue the enemy matter to reioyce and hope to ouercome if it cause the displacers to be esteemed enemies to the Gospell if it let in more wickednesse in one day then preaching can throwe out in many yeeres if it interrupt the course of the gospell without warrant eyther from the word of God or lawes of the land then must it needs follow that the displacing of those ministers is a most haynous and horrible sinne against the Lord. CHAP. 17. THe Eldership is to admonishe euery one by whome offence appeareth vnto them to grow in the Church There is no question between vs about admonition it selfe but this they deny that