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A45157 A second discourse about re-ordination being an answer to two or three books come out against this subject, in behalf of the many concern'd at this season, who for the sake of their ministry, and upon necessity, do yield to it, in defence of their submission / by John Humfrey, min. ; together, with his testimony, which from the good hand of the Lord, is laid upon himself, to bear, in this generation, against the evil, and to prevent, or repress (as much as by him may be possible) the danger, of the imposition. Humfrey, John, 1621-1719. 1662 (1662) Wing H3709; ESTC R9881 127,714 152

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as yet we have no other And if there shall come any future change hereof I must fore note that that can neither be objected or pleaded as to me in the matter In this whole Forme there are these things The Exhortations and Prayers The Ceremonies The Deaconship The Questions and Responses between Bishop and Minister and after all though that be beyond my Question the instrument of our Orders For the first There are severall persons to be Ordained together it may be twenty or thirty there was thereabouts Ordained with me The Exhortations now and Prayers are delivered at once indefinitely and that alone I hope does take away all scruple quite in that whole matter for the case is the same as in our Sermons and Prayers in the Congregation which will not I suppose be refused because some one or other expression therein is not apt and adaequate to the case of every individuall person Neverthelesse upon a view of the whole I find not one petition or direction that may not be used in our case let it have its grains of allowance and fair interpretation and as for what this Author suggests as if we prayed to be made Ministers or to receive the Ministerial power which we have and are already he may as well say we are exhorted to be made so and receive the same equally with as much sense and truth in it No there are prayers for Gods gilts and grace and assistance of his spirit to ou● Ministry w●ich I hope might be put up for the Ordainers themselves and we are exhorted to our duty accordingly but the Bishop prayes not that by his act the power may be given which he holds no doubt to flow indispensibly thereupon not through his prayer which is for things contingent but Christs institution Effectus ordinationis proprius est collatio potestatis ad illum per se dirigitur eundemque say such perpetuo et infallibiliter consequitur For the second the Ceremonies such as the delivery of the Bible and the like I know no exception by any onely if the meet repetition of imposition of hands be impleaded then hath my kind Adversary to answer for the same as well as I who is so farr from disallowing a second laying on of hands that he may be Godfather to it himself while in that distinction of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ordinativa et optativa from Mr. Vines he hath christined the thing with the right name and if he can come off from Austine as he quotes him and other antients for this who look on this 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 it self to be sacramental and so not to be iterated I hope I shall not be concluded ab authoritate bumanâ neither in the same matter For the Deaconship I have I think spoke enough in my first sheets p. 92 93. This haply is a thing may be got to be waved by the Bishop if it be desired for which I have quoted Aquinas If not it is but used we know as formality to any by himself who are ordained Priest and Deacon at the same time and though a mans spirit may be apt to rise at such a kind of favour that we who are Presbyters before should be now promoted to the Order of a Deacon ad ordinem Diaconatus promovimus yet seeing it is but the Canonical stamp upon our Ministry and that onely we come for which belike is to bee made at the leaning the hand twice upon it so that we must be the half first before the whole and he that wills the end wills the means let us but get our hearts sincere in the thing that we do this for the Gospels sake and I am perswaded seriously as of some other like things it may be received of the pious and the wise with a smile perhaps on the face rather then with a wrinkle on the conscience It is delivered by the antients and received by the learned that those Deacon● we read of in the Acts were chose at least some of them out of the 70. Christ sent forth to preachs which may therefore be some good allay to a mans spirit in this auk ward submission This Gentleman indeed hath an expression p. 67. very apt to raise indignation and to that end ingenuously used to wit that be will choose rather to lose the exercise of his Ministry for a season rather then take gradum Simeonis He does well to put in the word for a season to excuse it for suppose this man under no such University Oath as in our case we are not I hope could he indeed with a good conscience give up his Ministry rather then from a Master of Arts become a Batchel our again Is this a reason sound enough for so great a matter because he will not abase himself to a lower degree for a moment in the Church then he is in already There is certainly no bottom here This sober man would not indeed have all his brethren that are tender herein to go presently out of the Vineyard to accompany him would he Suppose a Minister nay suppose twenty that do much good in their place yet being sensible of the burden of their calling and made more tender by him shall be glad now of his book and example and so satisfie their consciences to leave their charge and give off will this bring any reall pleasure and solid content to this mans heart and can he comfortably rejoyce in it before the Lord to hear of it Alas that the grand Interest of Jesus Christ should lye no more near some of the be● of his servants that they should bring it so easily to the stake Must a Christian many times be content to become a fool what if for once he submit to be made so for Christs sake Sir though you would not undervalue your self for a fellowship with Simeon in the Colledg I hope you will be content to lose some degrees of reputation and estate too to continue with Simeon in the Temple waiting for the consolation of Israel For the fourth Question and Responses This one thing is plain at the first sight Here is the part of the Bishop and the part of the Minister and each one is to look to his own part For the Minister let him be serious and carefull of what he sayes for himself so as to be sure he does not in the least offend his conscience which he shall not doe if he purposes and endeavours to perform what he promises if perhaps his soul is tender herein as to some passages in regard of the pious sense of his frailty as when the words run strict Will you use all endeavour to do thus and thus and the answer is I will do so what if for I will he somewhere say I desire More particularly when the duties of the Deacon are proposed and he considers that upon his being Priest the proper work of that Office which is inferiour and which he would not engage unto does