Laws that all the Kings Subjects shall be extirpated that will not subscribe There is not one word in all the Statute Book or the most Learned Law-Books contrary to the Word of God and that the London Dispensatory hath no errour in Medicine and that no Licensed Book hath any errour in Divinity Verily if the Bishops and Clergy of England cannot give us better proofs of their infallibility or that their publick imposed Books are as free from errours as Adam was before his fall than by making all subscribe or swear or declare in the Church that it is so cowards may say your Lordships and Reverences have never an erroneous word but few men will believe it ever the more yea it will be the less believed that needeth such a proof as this Even as men would take him to be never the more an unerring Philosopher Lawyer or Physician who could force all the apprentice boys and women in the Town to swear that he is such Try first to make all the Kings Subjects of one opinion in all points of Learning Law or Trading and of one degree of wit and of stature and complexion and then hope to make them all of one measure of understanding not only in the substance of Religion but in all the little things that Bishops call indifferent and do or may impose L. But you run upon the Errour that all must have so great knowledge according to our rules as to know the Lawfulness of all Lawful things We know no Church-men reach so high But the way to Concord must be by obeying the Church in all cases that are doubtful to the Subjects M. 1. It 's well that you limit it to doubtful cases But what if I am past all doubt e. g. that it is a sin to make our sort of God-fathers the vowing Covenanters in Baptism excluding the Parents to cast out all from Christian Communion that scruple kneeling in the reception to deny Christendom to all that refuse our God-fathers and Crossings to pronounce all in England at Burial saved except the unbaptized excommunicate and self-murderers to profess that It is certain by the word of God that Infants excepting none baptized and dying before actual sin are undoubtedly saved To assent to a false rule to know Easter-day with many such What must I do in such undoubted cases 2. Tell us plainly Is it all doubted cases or some only in which you say we must obey If not all till you tell us which and how to know them you talk in vain If all what if men doubt whether Polygamy Lying Fornication c. be lawful Or what if a Papist doubt whether King-killing be lawful and the Clergy command it must it therefore needs be done 3. And I pray you tell us where and when it is that men must obey this rule Was it a duty in England in the days of Thomas Becket Anselm Dunstan c. or in the Reign of all the Kings that were Papists Is it a duty now in France Spain Italy Bavaria Austria c. or in the Dominion of the Turks Persians Tartarians China c Must all Subjects every where do all commanded them If they have but ignorance enough to be in doubt themselves sure they are bound to receive God's Light to overcome those doubts and in errour it is not obedience in Evil but seeking truth till they find it that is their duty But If you limit this Rule to Christians is it to all Christians If to Orthodox Rulers are the Subjects any fitter to judge whether their Kings and Bishops are Orthodox or not than whether the things imposed be good or bad If you dare say That all Subjects are bound to be of the Religion which their Kings or Bishops say is right speak out and you will need no confutation It 's granted by all sober men that as Rulers have the judgment of publick decision so every reasonable man must judge by private discerning whether his Actions be agreeable to God's Commands or not It is not Brutes and Infants but Men that have the use of reason that Kings and Bishops rule 4. But if you are stiff in the contrary opinion that all men must implicitely believe the King and Prelates in all that ignorance can but make them doubtful of I hope you have more brains than once to dream that ever you shall bring all the Kingdom to unite in this opinion and to lay by their reason and confess themselves Ideots or Brutes that must not labour to know whether they keep or break God's Supream Law or if you must rule men on these terms you must keep them in fetters and not at liberty And I pray you dishonour not the King so much as to make him a King of Beasts and Ideots and not of Men or Christians or at least expose him not so much to the Power of Usurpers as to say that his Subjects are not the Discerning Iudges who is their True and Lawful Soveraign and who not and if they must judge whether all their actions be agreeable to the Kings Laws or not lest they be hang'd or punished allow them also to judge whether or no they be agreeable to God's Law lest they be damned If men once believe that God is not their Supream Governour no wonder if they believe that Kings have no Governing right nor any are bound in conscience to obey them for who can give Governing Authority or who can bind Conscience to obey it but the absolute Soveraign the Almighty God L. Experience confuteth all that you have said what Countries live in greater Vnity than those that have procured and kept it by violence and do endure no Dissenters as Spain and Italy M. It seems you know not what you say 1. The Pope and Spaniards and Italians allow greater differences by many degrees than those that you condemn Dissenters for their Iesuits and Dominicans Thomists Scotists Nominals Durandists c. differ so much from each others in Doctrinals about God and Grace and Free-will and Providence and the Cause of Sin and many other Points that the Volumes they have written for their several Opinions make up huge Libraries which employ the hard studies of the most Learned men in the World and are as far as ever from being ended 2. The Iansenists and Iesuits differ not only in such Doctrines about Predestination Redemption Grace Free-will Perseverance c. but also about abundance of Doctrines commonly called Moral as about Murder Perjury Fornication Stealing c. as you may see in the Books lately published by the Iansenists against the Iesuits And though approved general Councils have made the doctrine of Deposing Excommunicated Princes and Absolving their Subjects from their Allegiance and giving their Dominions to others to be a very part of their Religion yet are not the Papists agreed in it but the Germans in the days of the Emperours Frederick Otho Henry 4th and 5th c. and the French to this day are
nullifie the Baptismal Vow 10. If the King's Souldiers at once swear to fight for the King and to destroy or plunder some innocent men or the Papist Souldier should swear to be true to the King and to pull down the Protestant Ministry and Bishops the former Part binds them though the latter doth not L. An Oath unlawfully imposed binds no man. M. That 's only the Doctrine of Perjury contrary to all sober Christian Casuists An unlawful imposition that is made by an Usurper without true power binds no man to take the Oath imposed but if he take it without being bound to take it the Oath binds him to the lawful part of the matter 1. If a High-way Robber make me swear to be true to the King that Oath binds though he had no Authority to impose it on me 2. If an Usurping Minister Baptize a man and make him Vow himself to Christ his Vow binds him though the Usurper had no authority 3. If a man make many voluntary Vows which no man bound him to make he is bound to keep them if the matter be lawful And the want of authority in the imposer doth but leave you as a volunteer unobliged to take it 4. And I would not have a Popish Clergy tempted to say The King and Parliament had no authority to impose the Oaths of Allegiance and Supremacy on us without the Pope therefore we be not bound to keep them L. But the Covenant was forced and no man is bound by a Promise or Oath which he was forced to make M. That 's a Doctrine of gross Perjury It 's true that no man that without authority forceth another to promise any thing to him can lay any just clame to that which he forced a man to promise For no mans own Crime can give him right to a Commodity Nemini debetur Commodum ex propria culpâ and the promiser is not bound to give it him because he hath no right to receive it but if you be injuriously forced to promise or vow your Duty to GOD or the King or your Neighbour that vow and promise doth bind you to perform it 1. If it be done without right by Prince or Prelates that force men to be Baptized yet that forced Vow doth bind them 2. If Bishops unjustly force unfit men to the LORD's Supper their Vow there made obligeth them 3. As I said if a High-way Robber force you to swear to be true to the King or to restore ill gotten goods or to recant a slander that Oath doth bind you 4. If the King should unjustly force you to Marry a Woman the Covenant binds you The Reason is because man hath free will and doth all that he doth by that choice which is true freedom It 's no proper force of his will that moveth him though we call it force from anothers act who doth his best to force him a man may refuse though he die for it He that casteth his goods into the Sea to save the Ship is urged to it but may choose He that giveth a Thief his purse to save his life might have chosen Do not the Martyrs freely lay down their lives and if any deny Christ or his Cause to save his life and say I was forced that will not save his Soul. 5. And your Doctrine will set up all unfaithfulness and rebellion All men that under Penalties are commanded to swear Allegiance or to take this Corporation-Oath or the Militia-Oath or the Oath to the Bishops are hereby taught to say We were forced to it by the King and Prelates and did it all against our wills and therefore are not bound by it Such principles loose the bonds of all Societies Loyalty and humane Converse and married men will put away their Wives when they are weary of them and say I was forced against my will by my Parents or by Poverty c. L. But this Covenant was unlawfully taken as well as unlawfully imposed and therefore bindeth not M. This also is Pernicious Doctrine against all sober Casuists If the matter be good the causeless and unlawful act of taking it doth not nullifie the obligation to perform it He that voweth an indifferent act should not have done it for a vow must not be causeless but he must keep it when it is made He that sinned in marriage when he ought not yet must perform his marriage Covenant He that in meer hypocrisie maketh the Baptismal vow did sin and yet is bound to keep it The truth is wicked men have so much of ill principles and ill ends that they do all sinfully that they do oft as to the substance and ever as to the manner But they are not disobliged from all their Contracts and Vows because they sinfully made them Else they will purposely do all sinfully that they may not be obliged So that 1. If the Act of Imposition 2. The Act of Swearing 3. And part of the matter Sworn be all unlawful yet a man is obliged to that part of the matter that is lawful But part of the Vow in question was good L. What part of it was good as to the matter M. 1. The renouncing of Popery 2. And of Schism 3. And of Prophaneness 4. The Obligation to defend the King. 5. The Profession to Repent of sin c. L. But all this we are bound to otherwise before M. Then you confess that it is good and then the Vow in question binds us to it I hope you are not so ignorant as to think that 2 Vow binds not a man to do that which he is bound to before I told you before tho' a man be bound by his Vow in Baptism to Christ his renewing it at every Sacrament layeth more and more Obligation on him If a man have taken the Oath of Allegiance every time he taketh it he is again bound to the same thing One may have a thousand Obligations to one and the same Duty L. But one thing is unanswerable No man is bound by a Vow that had not a self-obliging power But the Subjects of England and Scotland had no self-obliging power to take that Covenant because the King was against it The 30. of Levit proveth this at large M. Indeed if the Act of Vowing were not only sinful but a meer nullity that Vow being no Vow could not bind But that Levit. 30. doth no whit prove this I have fully manifested in my Christian Directory in the chap. of Vows to which I referr you part 3. cap. 5. Where the whole case of Vows is so largely opened that I will here only say this little The text of Levit. 30. doth expresly speak only of Women that are in a Parents or Husbands house and only of Vows made freely to God of doing or offering something to him Yea it seemeth limitted to them of which many reasons may be given And many reasons I have there mentioned pag. 33. why it doth not extend to Princes and Magistrates for releasing
you seriously read and studyed what is written by us I my self have told you 1. In a Book called A Plea for Peace what things they be which Nonconformists take to be sinful in Conformity and how great and hainous the sin is which they fear and what separation is unlawful and what is necessary 2. In a full Treatise of Episcopacy I have shewed what Episcopacy we are for and what we are against and why and what Antiquity held hereabout and what we have to say to most of the Learned Men that have written for that Diocesan form which we cannot approve 3. In an Apology I have proved it our duty to Preach though forbidden as far as we are able and mens necessities require it 4. In a second Plea for Peace I have fully given the World an account of our Doctrine of Magistrates Power and Subjects Duties in matters Civil and Ecclesiastical c. 5. In a Treatise of Church Concord I have fully proved that the Primitive simplicity in things divine few plain and sure is the only possible matter of Universal Christian Unity and Concord I know not of any one of these that are Answered or any thing like an Answer to them written save that to some part of the first some meer impertinent noise was made by some one that is confuted L. We that have other Employment have not leisure to read so many tedious Writings Tell us your Case in a few words if you would have us understand you M. Did you get your skill in Law by so easie and so short a Study Or is any kind of Knowledge so easily got where Controversie hath drowned the matter in contradicting words You know that it is multitudes of Volumes that are written on the other side And it 's impossible to Answer them all in a few words And if they be unanswered they will say we have done nothing But had you as seriously studyed but one or two of these Books e.g. my first Plea for Peace and Treatise of Episcopacy as you do Law Books I scarce think you would have been long unsatisfied But if indeed you have no time to hear read and study say also you have no time to know or judge And no more censure what you know not L. How comes your Case to be so little understood if you have done so much to open and justifie it M. You may know by your self 1. Men study their own matters in which they feel themselves concerned and as for ours they think they are not much concerned to know them 2. At least not at the rate of any hard and diligent study which neither love nor necessity leads them to 3. Most are strangers to us even they that dwell near us and converse not with us 4. The rather because that as we are out of the rising way and are under publick discountenance and banished from Corporations and much from converse with men of publick place and interest so our familiarity is become fearful lest it brings those that are familiar with us into suspicion 5. And they converse with those that through Ignorance or Malice do describe us and our Cause and Books as they would have all men think of us and it is not good manners or safe to contradict them And so the notice of our Mind and Case must be received not from us but from our accusers Do you observe this method in Westminster minister-Hall 6. And how much interest can byas mens judgments common experience too easily tells us They that are uppermost seldom want applauders nor dejected men accusers Every School-boy can tell you out of Ovid. de Trist. Dum fueris foelix multos numerabis amicos Nullus ad amissas ibit amicus opes Aspicis ut veniunt ad candida tecta Columbae Accipiet nullas sordida turris aves A few serious Believers that look for a more righteous and important judgment after death do not lose the treasure of Truth and Innocency in Shipwrack it being as near them as themselves But caetera fortunae non mea turba fuit L. But if there be no cause how come you to be so odious to others M. If you that dwell in England cannot answer that your self when you have taken a survey of the quality and lifes of them that hate us and them that they hate and of their distinct interests and motives I will not answer it to you L. But whence is it that Clergy-men of the same Profession so much disagree M. The former answer shall serve to this Whence is it that the Clergy by disagreement about Opinions and Superiority have broken the whole Christian World into that state of doleful division in which in Asia Africa and Europe it lyeth to this day If you know not read the History of the Church L. Which part of you soever is guilty the guilt must needs be very hainous when the Preachers of the Gospel of Love and Peace so hate each other and perswade all to do the like and will not let the World be quiet M. No doubt but Love and Concord are so great Duties and Blessings and there is so much of Satan in the contrary that you can hardly aggravate the guilt too much If it were better for that man that offendeth or stumbleth one of the least that he had never been born or he had been cast with a millstone about his neck into the Sea what a case are these Church Pastors in that tear the Church and Preach down Love and harden thousands in Ungodliness and Cruelty and endanger the loss of Religion to the Land. L. If I knew which of you had done most for Love an Peace and least against them I should know to whom to impute our troubles M. We justifie not our selves and we leave others to their judge We have deserved worse from God than we have suffered But we must say 1. That we impose not our words our books our forms our different rites on any nor would do by violence had we power We put no Oaths Subscriptions Convenants Professions or Practices doubtful upon any To them that tell us we did so in former times we still say let them use no other so but those that used them so and we are satisfied I know not six in England of all the present Nonconformists that did so We are not for Silencing or Imprisoning them nor forbidding them to worship God In 1660 we motioned no change of Church Government which should take down any of their Lordships Maintenance or Episcopal Power but only Arch-Bishop Vshers Draught of the antient Episcopacy and thankfully accepted what the King then granted in his Declaration of Ecclesiastical Affairs 2. We never craved Preferment of them but leave to serve Christ and his Church in the Office which we were Vowed to We certainly knew what impediments hindered the desired Unity and what divisions must needs follow were they not removed which by others they might easily have been without
cost or danger We Pleaded we Wrote we Petitioned and Beg'd for Peace even for that which the King had granted And what could we do more Since then above twenty years we have laboured as we could sometime to few and sometime to more and have patiently lived upon Charity and suffered I need not tell you what L. But why could not you Conform to the Law as well as they M. 1. Can men believe what others list because they bid us Is there nothing that you or they would refuse if it be but commanded you What use have we for a Law of God then If we must disobey it as oft as we are bid that were to renounce God and all Religion and Salvation And we have not our own understandings at command we have offered them our Oaths these twenty years that we would obey them in all except at the rate of sinning and damnation 2. And if we had done as they did we must have profest our Assent and Consent to all things contained in and prescribed by a Book which we never saw For so did we suppose above seven thousand men the Book not coming out of the Press till about the day that they were so to Assent to it Aug. 24. so that no doubt they did it on an implicite trust in others except the few that were in or near London This fully shews that though almost all the nine thousand or more Ministers that were in possession when the King came in did before conform to the way of the Directory and not to the Common-Prayer Book yet there was a great latent difference between the seven thousand that conformed and the two thousand that did not L. But seeing all the stress lyeth upon the question Whether it be only things Lawful indifferent or good which you refuse or any thing which God forbiddeth I pray tell me plainly what it is that you take to be sinful in the Conformity required And what it is that you would have as necessary in its stead M. I will tell you on these Conditions 1. That you pardon me for repeating here what I have already written 2. That you bring not your self a Conscience so laxe as will take nothing for sin which men use to make light of though God forbid it and then think that our Consciences should be as wide as yours 3. That we may premise the things presupposed as agreed on CHAP. II. The things presupposed as agreed on L. WHat are the Agreements which you presuppose M. These following 1. That God is the Absolute Soveraign Ruler and hath made in Nature and in the Sacred Scripture Universal Laws for the whole Church and World And that Kings are His Subjects and Officers and have no Power but what He giveth them directly or indirectly and therefore none against Him no more than a Constable against the Sovereign Power and that he and all men are bound to obey Gods Lawes whoever are against it or forbid it L. I cannot deny this without denying God to be God and the Law of Nature and Scripture to be His Law and Word M. II. That next to his Government God in order of Nature and Time made Self-Government and Family-Government before the Government of Republicks Kingdoms or Cities And that publick Polity hath no Authority to abrogate Self-Government or Family-Government but only to over rule and use them for the common good and safety L. This is undenyable if you state the Governments presupposed 〈◊〉 M. III. That it belongs to Self-Government to discern by reason whether the Commands of Men be against the Commands of God or not which we call Iudicium discretionis by which all men must guide their actions L. Shall every man be a judge of the Law whether it be just and good How unfit are the vulgar to judge of Lawes M. They are no publick judges to decide the case for other men nor doth their judgment restrain or bind the Magistrate nor if they judge amiss will it justifie themselves or suspend the execution of the Law against them But if they must not have the foresaid discerning judgment to guide their actions it will follow 1. That they are not governed nor must obey as Men by Reason and Free-will but as Brutes 2. That Kings have Absolute Power against God and must be obeyed in all that they command e. g. if it be to curse or blaspheme or renouce God or Christ to command the Subject to live in Murder Adultery Perjury c. and so to abrogate the Law of Nature 3. It followeth that there is no God that is a Supream Ruler but the King. 4. And I pray you tell me what you will have the Subjects do in case of Usurpation or Competition for the Government as between the Houses of York and Lancaster Iane and Queen Mary c. when one saith fight for me and the other fight for me If the Subject have not a judgment of discretion to know which is his rightful Sovereign the King must be forsaken He that will stand to the command of another must judge who his Commander is L. And will you have Infants and Idiots judge of their Parents commands Or Children in their minority M. 1. Infants and Idiots have not the use of Reason and so far are to be ruled by force as Brutes And Children in that measure as they are short of reason But 2. If they come to reason and the King command them one thing e. g. what Church to go to and their Parents the contrary would you not have them judge which they must obey 3. Much more if Parents should command them to sin against God to Steal Lye Murder Blaspheme and Curse the King c. surely they must judge as far as they are able L. I cannot deny it proceed in your presuppositions M. IV. That no men have power to command us to damn our Souls or to do any thing that tendeth to it L. None will deny you that but perhaps some things may cease to be sin and dangerous if commanded M. None can dispense with the Laws of God but we grant that some things that are unlawful by some accident or circumstance may become a duty when commanded when the good of Obedience Order and Concord therein weighs down against the accident It may be a sin to go on Warfare before one is commanded and a duty when he is commanded It is a fault in a Servant to go before he is sent and a duty after V. We presuppose that deliberate Lying is a sin L. Is there any one doubts of that M. If they do not our Case will soon be decided But indeed many deny it The Iansenists name you many Jesuit Casuists And Grotiâ—â— de Iure Belli and Bishop Ier. Taylor deny that Lying is any sin when it is profitable and wrongeth none as in a Physician to fice down a Medicine L. And what have you to say to the contrary M. I must not stay
XXXVII Point XXXIV Of renouncing all Obligations from the Covenant as on me or any other to endeavour any alteration of Church Government L. THis is now ceased at the end of twenty years what need you mention this M. 1. I thought you had desired to know why we conformed not for the twenty years past 2. I suppose that the like is still imposed on others in the Corporation Act the Vestry Act the Militia Act and the Marrow of it still imposed on us in the Oxford Oath L. And what have you against it M. First I 'll tell you what we have not against it because we are commonly here falsly accused 1. It is none of our Controversie whether this Oath or Covenant was unlawfully made and imposed both on the people and the King we deny none of this 2. It is none of our Controversie whether there be not some part of the Matter of it that is unlawful We deny not that 3. It is none of our Controversie whether it was not unlawfully taken We justifie not that as to our selves tho' we are not judges of the sin of King and Lords and others whom we have no Calling to condemn 4. It is none of our Controversie whether this or any other Covenant or Vow do bind us to Rebellion Sedition or any unlawful Act we renounce all such Obligation 5. Yea we hold that neither this nor any other Vows of our own can prevent any Obligation that the King hath Authority to impose upon us in things great or small else men might disable Magistrates to rule them and exempt themselves from Obedience by Vowing before hand not to obey 6. I add for my self that I hold my self bound by this Covenant to nothing which I had not been bound to if I had never taken it For I never thought that by Vows we may make new Religions or Laws to our selves but only bind our selves to that which God doth make our Duty L. Where then is the danger or sin that you fear M. I. As to the Obligation of the Vow on my self II. As to the Obligation of it on all others III. As to the Matter of altering Church Government 1. I am neither so blind wicked or singular as to deny the common Doctrine of Casuists Protestants and Papists that tho' a Vow be both sinfully imposed and sinfully taken yet it bindeth in materia necessaria licita Yea that if part of the matter be unlawful yet it bindeth to that part which is lawful Else a Knave might exempt himself from the performance of all his Vows by foisting in some unlawful matter or by making them in an unlawful manner Therefore if there be any thing that is necessary or lawful in that Vow I believe that I am thereto bound L. So Rebels that think it lawful to rebel will say that the Covenant binds them to it M. So he that thinks Gods Law doth bind him to Murder or Rebellion will plead Gods Law for it But doth it follow that Gods Law bindeth him to that or to nothing It is not mens false sayings that make or prove such Obligation He that will say that Gods Laws or the Kings or the Covenant binds him to sin must be punished for his Sin and Lie and yet all just Obligations stand L. But you are bound before by other Obligations to all that is good in it and not by the Covenant M. That 's an inference contrary to Reason and Christianity Can a Man of any Reason once dream that a Man may not have many Obligations to one and the same Duty or that the second Oath binds not to it because the first did you vowed your self to Christ in Baptism and you renew the same in the Lords Supper Are all the latter null because the first is valid What if you many times Swear Allegiance to the King Do none of these bind you but the first L. II. But do you think that endeavours to alter Church Government is any of your lawful or necessary Matter M. You know that there is a Law that maketh it a praemunire penalty to say that the Covenant bindeth one to endeavour any alteration of Church Government And why then will you put such a question to me All that I will say is this that as I say not that any one is bound to it by this Covenant so I am not so good a Casuist as to be able to justifie and acquit all other men from all such Obligations Let them look to themselves for my part I will be no voucher or surety for their indemnity L. III. This brings up to the other part of your Reasons and why may you not say that none is so bound M. 1. Because God never made me a Casuist to determine the case for all men in three Kingdoms 2. Because it is a new and monstrous thing for one private man yea many thousand private men to be forced to such an Office and Undertaking Every man must answer for himself before God and Man Noxa caput sequitur If I were commanded to be surety for everyman in England Scotland and Ireland but for the Peace or good Behaviour I should think it a piece of as palpable injustice as most ever the World knew But if I must undertake to answer for all their Souls in a case where thousands of Learned men have been of the contrary mind I 'll first think how to answer for my own Yet as to that part which I am certain of my self I do not scruple it I dare subscribe that the Covenant bindeth no man to be False or Rebellious against the King or to endeavour to alter our Monarchy or to deprive the King of any of his Rights nor to endeavour to change any part of Church Government which Christ hath instituted for continuance in his Church And is not this enough But whether our Diocesan frame as distinct from that which Arch-bishop Vsher called the Primitive Government be changeable or whether none of their Courts and Lay-mens power of the Keys be changeable or ought to be changed And whether no man may endeavour it in his place and calling I think a man may be saved without knowing And I think if you ask a man if King and Parliament should change the Office of an Official a Commissary a Chancellor c. or should set up a Bishop in every Market Town is it a sin against God or is it unlawful to obey them or if it be lawful to do it and any of them Swear to endeavour it in his place is he bound to perform that Oath If to all this a man say I cannot tell I am not Learned enough in Law and Divinity to resolve such cases but I am resolved my self to live in Loyalty and Peace I would ask any man that hath not put off humanity whether that man be fit to determine the case for all other men in three Kingdoms and to be a voucher for all their Souls in
Plea for Peace declared my Political Principles which after all thoughts I stand to And no one hath given me a word of Exceptions against them to this day after so many years but some in meer Malice tell me of my Aphorisms revok't without taking notice of this I here repeat that I am ready to engage to the utmost that I renounce all Rebellion Treason and Sedition and all Principles tending thereto that I am for as much Power of Princes and Obedience of Subjects as any Text of Scripture speaks for or as is given or asserted by any General Council or the Confession of any Christian Church that I have seen except what is ascribed to the Pope and his Substitutes And I hold it unlawful to take Arms at all against the King that is against either his Authority Person Rights or Prerogative or against any lawfully Commissioned by him yea or unlawfully except in such Cases as God's Law of Nature or the King himself by Law or contrary Command shall bind Men to resist L. And so you will suppose that God's Law of Nature bindeth you in some Cases to resist And will not all Rebels plead that Law M. Dare you say that there is no such Case King Iames writeth that a King may not make War against his whole Kingdom If Ten Irishmen pretend a Commission to Kill all the Parliament and Protestants in the Land or to seize on the King's Garisons or if King Iohn give his Kingdom to the Pope ask Hooker Filson or Parliaments what the Law of Nature saith to these Cases Chap. XL. Point XXXVII Of Assenting and Consenting to the Damnatory Clauses of Athanasius's Creed L. I Hope you will not quarrel with the Creed M. I take the Creed called Athanasius's tho' the Author is unknown to be an excellent Explication of the Doctrine of the Trinity And could wish that it were more used and learnt of all But I am not so far to judge other Men as to conclude all Men certainly damned for ever that are not so well skilled in that Mystery as to believe every word there written L. I have heard Learned Men say That the Assent and Consent is not to be extended to the Damnatory Clauses but only the Doctrinal Articles M. They that can make Laws and Oaths speak or mean what they list need not stick at any thing Is not the Damnatory part a part of the Book of Common-Prayer and contained in it L. But they prove thus that it meaneth no such Consent or Approbation The Liturgy requireth you to read the Apocrypha and yet not to believe all things in it to be true For say they divers things in Tobit are evidently false And so tho' it bind you to use and read Athanasius's Creed it binds you not to believe all in it to be true M. This Cheat is too gross to deceive a School-Boy with Is Athanasius's Creed a real part of the Common-Prayer Book contain'd in it or not L. Yes no doubt we there find it both contained and prescribed Verbatim M. Is the Apocrypha any part of the Common-Prayer Book and contained in it or not L. If there be any Sentences out of it there inserted those are part else the Apocrypha is no part of the Book It is only the Order to read it that is a part M. Is not this a palpable Deceit to argue that we are not bound to Assent and Consent to that which is contained in the Book because we are not so bound to that which is not contained in it Chap XLI Point XXXVIII Of Saying Common-Prayer twice a day every day in the Year ordinarily L. IT is but that you shall every day say the Morning and Evening Service not being lett by Sickness or other urgent Cause And what have you against this M. I think when the Book was made to help the ignorant Vulgar out of Popery every day to use the Common-Prayer was a very good help to them But the Case is much altered and People now have more suitable Helps and Ministers have so much other Work to do in their Studies and with their Neighbours every day and some Prayers to use more suitable to their Families and Closets that it must needs be a sinful Impediment against other Duties to say Common-Prayer twice a day If they were commanded to Preach twice a day every day in the year it would cause a sinful Omission of other Duties how good soever Preaching be in it self L. But then you have urgent Cause of forbearance M. We are not for abusive dallying with Covenants about Sacred things It is evident by the instance of Sickness that the Authors of the Imposition meant only extraordinary Causes as urgent and not that we should take our ordinary Work for such an urgent Cause As if a Man that is bound to spend most of the day in his Shop should Covenant to go Thirty Miles every day if he be not lett by urgent Cause L. But you see that almost no Conformists do thus therefore it 's certain that they do not so understand it M. That 's a warning to take heed of promising that which we see so many that promised it not perform They are our Monitors to take heed of such a playing with Sacred Covenants and deceiving the Law instead of obeying it Chap. XLII Point XXXIX Of forcing the unwilling Parishioners to the Sacrament and Accusing and Excommunicating the Refusers L. HOw are you bound to this by Conformity M. 1. We must assent and consent to the Rubrick which commandeth That every Parishioner shall Communicate three times a year at least 2. The Oath of Canonical Obedience binds us to obey the 112 Canon as well as the rest which saith The Minister Churchwardens Questmen and Assistants of every Parish-Church and Chappel shall yearly within 40 days after Easter exhibit to the Bishop or his Chancellor the Names and Surnames of All the Parishioners as well Men as Women which being at the Age of 16 years received not the Communion at Easter before And then they are to be Excommunicated if they refuse and to lie in Jail till they die when taken by the Writ De Excommunicato Capiendo L. And why should not men be forced to their Duty and to their own good if they are backward to it M. The internal part is the first and chief part of their Duty without which the external is not their Duty but their great Sin. It is the Duty of Heathens to Believe and be baptized but not to be baptized till they believe It is the Duty of Candidates for the Ministry to get Ability and Ordination and to officiate But not to officiate before they get Ability and Ordination It is the Duty of every Man to believe the Truth of the Gospel and to profess that belief But to say he believeth when he doth not is Hypocrisie and Lying It is a sloathful Man's Duty to rise and dress him and go to his Work but not
during the Iewish Policy command them to use such a Discipline much more in his own Churches L. What are your other Reasons for it M. 2. The very Nature of Christ's Church required it which is a Society separated from the World under special Laws of Holiness and Love and for special heavenly Ends If therefore it shall be confounded with the World and not separated to Christ it is no Church 3. Christ did it for the Honour of himself and his Kingdom If he be no more for Holiness than the Infidel and Heathen World is what is he better than they or how is he a Saviour or what is the Church better than Infidels 4. It is needful to save Heathens from deceit that would come into the Church and to convince them that their impure Communion is insufficient 5. It is needful to save Christians from damning deceit that they may not think that a dead barren unholy Faith and Name of Christianity will save them without a holy obedient Heart and Life 6. It is needful to keep Christ's Ordinances from falsifying Profanation If a sealed Pardon and Gift of Life shall in the Sacraments be given as commonly to Dogs as Children it is a taking God's Name in vain and profane belying Jesus Christ. 7. It is needful to bring Sinners to Repentance that they may be Pardoned and Saved 8. And it is needful to the comforting absolution of Penitents 9. Accordingly God 's Church in all Ages hath owned it as their Law of Christ's institution to this day L. But some learned Men say This was but because there was at first no Christian Magistrate But when there was such the Discipline fell into their hands M. The first Christian Magistrates finding the Church in Possession of it confirmed it and too much accumulated and added to it but took it not away Of this see a small Book which I wrote of the Magistrates Power in Religion to Dr. Lud. Moulin which may end all this dispute Briefly I ask you Qu. 1. Would you have all Infidels and Pagans baptized and Communicate without any Profession of the Christian Religion first L. God forbid That 's a Contradiction M. Shall any words go for a Profession or what must that Profession be L. It must be a Profession of Christian Faith and Obedience M. Who must try and judge of that Profession whether it be Christianity or not Is it Magistrates or Pastors L. Magistrates have somewhat else to do Else they must study and exercise that work alone for they will have no time for Civil Government if they undertake this M. Did not Christ institute an Office for it and give them this Power of the Keyes And if one half that Office cease as soon as Magistrates were Christians why not the other half and so Magistrates must Preach Baptize and celebrate the Sacrament L. It must be no doubt the Ministerial Office to judge who is fit to be in Church Communion Else they were Slaves if they must be forced to take all uncapable Men to their Charge and Communion against their Consciences and Wills No Physician Tutor or School-Master will be forced to take such Patients Pupils or Scholars as will not be ruled by him and will make make him do what they list against his Will. M. You must confess the use of discipline or else openly disown the Word of God the very Being of the Church and the Judgment of the Universal Church to this day And do you think then that to deprive the Church of this is a lawful part of Conformity L. How prove you that the Laity is deprived of it M. 1. In our Great Parishes the People are few of them known to the Priest or to one another Of the two Parishes of my last abode I do not think but there are Fifty Thousand unknown to the Minister and to each other And how can these admonish the Offenders or the Minister exercise this discipline upon unknown Persons 2. The People know that it is in vain to begin where there can be no progress To what purpose is it to tell the Church when it 's sure to do more harm than good 1. The swarm of the Vicious is so great that they cannot be Prosecuted 2. The Minister himself forbeareth it as unpracticable 3. The accused must be Prosecuted at rates which Men cannot bear 4. And before Bishops that cannot possibly do this work to one of a Thousand any more than one School-master can Try and Correct all the faulty Scholars in a Diocess 5. And Men must be Judges that will never call Sinners to Repentance with Ministerial Evidence and Love and Patience but like Secular Courts bid them Recant or be Excommunicate 6. And the Cause must be decided by Lay-men that profanely usurp the Power of the Keys And how is Christ's discipline here possible Polluted common Churches frighten away the Religious conscionable People L. Do you not before complain of too much exercise of Discipline by Excommunications M. Yes of Discipline against Christ It is not enough for your Churches to be common and unclean without true Discipline but when you should drive out the Dogs and Swine you turn out the Children Witness all the fore-mentioned Canons As I said you first force in all the ignorant ungodly multitude that are unfit then these are the strength and major part Then they cannot come under due Discipline then this grieveth Religious People and they find fault with it And then they must be taken for Schismaticks and condemn'd and ruin'd for finding fault In short what need there disputing Is it not notorious matter of fact that this Discipline is not exercised against one Drunkard Swearer Fornicator c. of a multitude and are not Men then deprived of the use of it And when it 's known that they cannot have it in most or many Parishes how are they bound to live and die without the benefit of it L. Do you think Men are bound to separate from all Churches that have not this Discipline Sure it is not Essential to the Church M. I do not think that Preaching as distinct from reading is essential to a Church but that it may be at least for a time a sorry Church without it as those in Moscovy are But I would not continue in such a Church that is without it if I can have a better It 's one thing what a Man should endure that can have no better without more hurt than good and another thing what Men should chuse in obedience to Christ and for their own and the Churches good that can attain it Do you think it is lawful to omit all Duty that is not essential to the Church surely your many humane Offices your Forms and Ceremonies your Declarations and Subscriptions to them are further from being essential than true Discipline is and yet you think that the omission of these is unsufferable Is mans accidental inventions more necessary than Christs Ordinance and Church
it is or the Parish Churches to be no Churches or their Communion utterly unlawful Or did it bind us to preferr a desertion of all publick Communion before it No it did not but if it had it had been sinful and to be repented of But 1. We were bound by God's word and no Covenant or Practices bind us to any more than Scripture binds us to to avoid all that is sin 2. And when we have our choice to preferr the best he that doth either turn to Sin or preferr a less good when it is so before a greater goeth back but he that preferreth no Publick Worship before the Parish Worship goeth back indeed and breaketh the Covenant by profaneness and Schism God's word is a clearer and surer Test of our Duty and Controversies than any humane Covenants When Ministers were changed 1647. many places got out some tolerable weak Ministers to get in abler men in great Towns. When the Bishops returned their abler Ministers being dead or ejected they took the old ones again Did these go back from Covenant Reformation or Duty when they could have no better Had not those been the revolters that would rather have had none L. But why go you to the Parish-Churches when you might have better M. 1. All Non-Conformists Preach not better than many of them yea the Liturgy is better words of Prayer than some weak or faulty Non-Conformists oft use 2. A brown loaf and a white one both may be better than a white one alone I found both best and I knew it sin to renounce Communion with any Church for weakness because they are not as good as others 3. That is best at one time and place that is not so at another Praying in it self is better than working and eating sleeping And yet in their proper time your servants working and your eating and sleeping is better than praying at that time One that is a Son a Servant a Wife who is commanded by ahe Master of the Family to hear a tolerable Parish-Minister may then find it better than disorderly and disobediently to hear an abler Man that may by variety of conditions be one mans Duty which is anothers sin But alas I fear that Communion with a Non-Conformist-Church will quickly in England be so rare as will end the controversy which you should preferr and you must have Parish-Church Communion or none As it was before 1638 when there was scarce more than one Non-Conformist that held any Church-Communion but Parochial in each County I think God's Judgments will soon silence this dispute with all that will not renounce all Local-Church Communion I will conclude with another reason of my practice Almost every Church on Earth hath a worse Liturgy as I said and People than ours But I dare not separate from almost every Church on Earth And therefore not from one for a reason that is common to almost all CHAP. LIX A Draught of ten Articles containing that which the Non-Conforming Reconcilers desire to unite us and heal the Church when GOD seeth this Land meet for so great a Mercy L. I Have one thing more to desire of you That you will so far answer the common question What would you have As to tell it us punctually as to those things which you take to be necessary to our agreement It may be hereafter they may be regarded and used tho' not in our days M. Do you mean as to the ends and things desired of us or a form of Words to be the containing means As to the former 1. We desire nothing but the promoting God's Glory Kingdom and Will according to the three first Petitions in the Lord's Prayer for the Information Sanctification and Salvation of the People by the Pure Plentiful and Powerful preâ—ching of the Gospel the True and Spiritual Worshipping of GOD and the due Exercise of Church-Discipline according to Christ's Laws And that herein all Christians may live in Love and Peace and as much Concord as they can And to that end that they may take God's Word which they are all agreed in as the Test of their Concord and as sufficient for all things necessary to Salvation and the only universal Law And that the Churches may not be torn by the imposition of Mens Canonical Engines as necessary to Liberty or Communion in which all never did nor can unite And that such course may be taken for the Choice of Church-Pastors that the Flocks may be guided and fed by Truth and Love and not famished nor opprest by Malignants that hate the serious practice of what they Preach It is not Wealth nor Honour nor any thing but this that we desire but see small hopes of attaining by Men. L. The desires are honest but you all profess just desires in general and de fine But I desire you to leave to the World in writing the ipsissima Verba which you would wish in a healing Law with as little change as may be M. I shall do it premising 1. That such a yielding form must contain but what 's of necessity to our Concord and not all that our well-being requireth 2. That the words must not be too many lest they seem too tedious nor too few lest they be not intelligible 3. That they that will defeat them will pretend but to change the words and thereby cross our sence and necessities but take them tho' men give us no present hopes A Breviate of the Ten Articles desired by such Non-Conformists as treated for Concord 1660. and 1661. for such a Reformation of the Parish-Churches as is needful to our Union I. THat the Profession of the Christian Faith and consent to the Baptismal Covenant by Parents or Pro-parents or Adopters for Infants and by the Adult for themselves be the Terms of Church-Entrace by Baptism II. That the Terms of the Communion and Privileges of the Adult be That they have personally owned and renewed solemnly the said Christian Covenant and are not proved to have nulled that Profession by Apostasie Heresie or an inconsistent wicked Life And that they understandingly desire the said Communion III. For the necessary notification of such understanding consent and desire the Pastors that know them after due Catechizing shall try them and upon Approbation admit them to the Communion of the Adult or upon a just Certificate that they have been so approved and received by any other Orthodox Pastor IV. Such as are proved to violate the Baptismal Covenant by Apostasie Heresie or a wicked Life the Pastor must wisely and compassionately admonish to repent and amend And if after private and open Admonition such remain obstinately impenitent the Pastor shall publickly declare them Persons unfit for Communion with the Church or where so much is not permitted shall at least forbear to give them the Sacrament but shall receive them when they credibly profess Repentance V. No unnecessary Oath Covenant Subscription Profession or Promise shall be made necessary to Communion or Ministry
by Church-Government it is by the Magistrate's Sword and not by ours by the Keys 7. And is it not then ridiculous contradiction to dispute so hard about Church-Power and against the Presbyters claim when you confess that it is an useless shadow that you dispute for and it 's not it but the Sword that doth the deed 8. Is it not an odious defacing of Princes and Magistrates to say That they are bound to Imprison and Ruine a man as a meer Lictor or Executioner of the Judgment of the Clergy or of a Chancellor without ever hearing or trying his Cause and to punish him again because they punisht him before or because he hath not got their pardon 9. If Excommunication be grosly unjust as against Christs Members for doing their duty or for common humane infirmity they do well that set by it no more than it deserveth and pretend not to repent when they do not nor cannot nor ought to repent L. Though you call it no Punishment to keep all the Non-Communicants from publick power and trust I think it will pass for a notable Penalty M. I grant them as much as I can as knowing how little they will yield to and indeed it 's my opinion that to deny all Non-Communicants Magistracy and publick Trust would be to Reform the Common-Wealth in the Foundation if the Keys were but justly exercised But then by this I exclude none but the Intolerable that Neither Communicate with the Approved or the Tolerated Churches L. But Rulers will turn this against you and shut out the Tolerated with the Intolerable M. I cannot help that Must I not tell men what is Right because they will do Wrong L. But you are for having all the Subjects forced to be Catechised and to be Auditors And do you think that this will not force Non-Conformists to hear against their Consciences M. I say not that they should be forced to hear in the Parish Church but either in a Parish Approved or a Tolerated Church How have they a Toleration that may not hear their Tolerated Pastors And he that is not for hearing at all is not to be Tolerated And indeed if those that are no Members in Communion of any Church but meer Catechumens or Auditors should be forced to hear in their own Parishes ordinarily if there be meet Teaching I oppose it not L. But is it noâ— as injurious to force men against their Consciences to Hear as to Communicate M. No the Case is greatly different Nature bindeth all men to learn that they may know what is good or evil to themselves Learning and Knowledge is the common Duty and Interest of mankind and though no man can be forced to Believe and Repent he that is forced to Hear may hear that which may make him Voluntarily Believe and Repent You must force your Children to Learn but not to Communicate I told you that to give a man the Sacrament is to give him a seal'd Pardon and Gift of Christ and Life which no unwilling man is capable of but he may be capable to Hear and Learn And this being only to those that are refusers of all Church-Communion or are uncapable and are in none either Approved or Tolerated what Conscience can such pretend against hearing or against being restrained from crimes and profaning holy things or reproaching Religion though they be not constrained to what they are uncapable of L. I am fully satisfied that your way of dividing all the Subjects into the Approved the Tolerated and the Intolerable is of absolute necessity And to conclude I am satisfied that you Non-Conformists have a Cause so good that you do well to suffer for it but were I in your case I know not what I should do my self The Flesh and World are strong and it 's easier to be convinced that one should be a Martyr than to submit to Martyrdom God be merciful to our weakness M. He trusteth not Christ that thinks he shall be a loser by him and he that will save his life from him by sin shall lose it and he that loseth it for him shall save it L. X. Your 10th for some Toleration will never be endured though the truth is your Reasons for it are unanswerable and your Limitations so strict as prevent most of the Objections that might be made against it M. God's Law requireth forbearing and forgiving one another and receiving the weak in Faith. And they that cannot Tolerate the Tolerable methinks should fear the thoughts of death lest then God will not Tolerate them but cast them out as they cast out his Children L. I confess you convince me that know what most Patrons in England are that it is unfit that all the Peoples Souls should be so far at the mercy of those Patrons that seem to care but little for their own as that no man must have any other or better Pastor than they will choose for him and that all mans duty to care for his Salvation and all the judgment of the Church of Christ from the Apostles dayes till a few hundred years agoe should wholly give place to the pretended right of any fellow that can buy an Advowsoâ— or Presentation And it were to be wisht that it were wholly taken from them and left to the Clergy and People alone the Magistrate being Iudge whom he will Approve or Tolerate But there is no hope that Patrons will let go their supposed right if an Angel from Heaven should speak against it but in all reason they should grant the Communicants that small consequent Vote of Consent or Dissent that you pleaded for but if they will not do that they should give them leave to go to another Parish or to choose a Tolerated Pastor whom they will maintain But men are so set on their own ways that they banish all sense of others case and of what conduceth to the common good M. We can but bring the truth to light and shew a self-wounding people the Balsam that must heal them and stay till God will give them a heart to use it L. But you are so careful not to offend them by â—otioning 〈◊〉 wide a Toleration that I doubt it will do little good For 1. some will scruple some of the Subscriptions or Oaths which you grant shall be imposed on them 2. If all the Tolerated must be responsible for their Doctrine and Ministration it 's two to one but the Rulers to whom they must give account will be so contrary to them that they will have no peace or safety M. How would you have these dangers and inconveniences be avoided An unlimitted Toleration of the Intolerable is it self Intolerable and you can devise no safer limitation The engagements which they are to take tell you the Terms of Toleration and if men will-Preach against those Terms that is against the Christian Faith or the Holy Scripture or their Allegiance to the King or if they use their Meetings to destroy Love and Peace