Selected quad for the lemma: duty_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
duty_n	church_n	great_a	place_n	1,018	5	4.1912	3	false

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A41335	Weighty questions discussed I. Whether imposition of hands in separating a person to the work of the ministry be necessry?, II. Whether it be essential to the right constitution of a particular church, that the teaching elders and the members meet alwayes in one place? : whereunto is added a prediction of Mr. Daniel Rogers, minister in Essex, long before the beheading King Charles I and Arch-Bishop Laud, foretelling that they should not dye a natural death / by Giles Firmin ...	Firmin, Giles, 1614-1697.; D. R. (Daniel Rogers), 1573-1652.	1692 (1692)	Wing F969; ESTC R31512	41,078	37

Hands It lyes upon you to shew where that Precept or President is I know no such Texts you acted did you act in Faith that you acted according to God and were well-pleasing to God in your ordaining without Imposition of Hands Then shew us that Divine Testimony upon which your Faith for so acting is grounded You never gave me one as yet and if you cannot do it your Faith in this Act is but vain If there be any thing I do in the House of God for which I cannot give either Precept President necessary Consequence from Scripture or light of Nature I will lay by that Act I will not trouble the Peace of the Church nor hinder Union with my Brethren by keeping up such Practices Thirdly The Apostles did not constitute Churches as you do with one single Pastor c. In Nine Churches we find several Teachers but not one with a single Teacher In a Young Church at Antioch Act. 13.2 3. There were three Teachers to separate Paul and Barnabas There is an Errour then in your Constitution and that does not justifie your Error in Ordination Fourthly Give me a President where the Pastor of one Church did so much as preach or pray in another Church if you cannot then we must not so much as preach or pray in another Church But you have called me and others to preach in your Church To this you answered me You could well do that from Matth. 28.19 go teach all Nations if so then in other Churches Answ First Set by Presidents then it seems you can find none Secondly I may deny your Co●seq●ence at ●●ast according to some Independent Principles unless I preach as a gifted Brother To preach to the Nations who were Heathens and to preach in an Independ●nt Church differ I may preach to Heathen as a Minister of Christ but in an Independent Church as a gi●ted Brother I wish we knew the first Author of this Distinction that we might scratch his Cranium for so witty an Invention What your judgment is as to this distinction Lib. 2. p. 101. I cannot tell But I am of Dr. Owens mind If I did not think my self bo●nd saith he to Preach as a Minister and as a Minister Authorized in all places and on all occasions whe● I am called thereunto I think I should never preach much more in this world Fisthly If that Text will warrant me to preach in another Church it will warrant me to Baptize in another Church if there be need and I am called to it They are joined together and if I may put forth two Acts of Authority I may also put forth a third If there wants a Pastor and I am called to join with others to separate him to his Office we will do it according to the Word with Fasting Prayer and Imposition of Hands without which 't is not Ordination We do not give him the Deficition Sixthly Since then we are come to consequence from Scripture I gave you a Scripture 1 Cor. 12.12 The Body is one and hath many Members c. He does not mean that particular Church of Corinth is that one Body he adds so is Christ v. 13. Jews and Gentiles make up that one Body v. 25. The Members of this one Body must have the same care one of another Does the Apostle tye up his Discourse to the Church of Corinth that the Members of that Church should have care one of another and if one of their Members did ●●●●er v. 26. all the rest of the Members of Corinth suffer with them but for other Churches take no care of them If they suffer you need not suffer with them Certainly this was not the Apostles meaning I look upon all particular Churches to be Members of that one Body It is such a Church in which Christ hath set Apostles Prophets c. v. 28. It is such a Church where some are as Eyes others as Ears some as Feet some as Hands verses 15 16. Therefore he speaks of the Visible Church If every particular Church were the Body of Christ how many Bodies should Christ have But he hath but one Body as the 12th verse and Ephes 4.4 12. tell us Since th●n all particular Churches are but Members of that one Body and the Lord hath commanded the Members to have care one of another Surely the Lord hath not confined the Ministerial Power of a Pastor to his own particular Church so that if a Neighbour-Church have no Pastor that the Pastors near to this Church may not help that Church to a Pastor and in that way which his Word hath declared Your Practice testifieth it for you would make the Person to be ordained and others believe you ordain in another Church and this is an Act of Authority but not as you perform it nor according to God's Word and so it is no Ordination There is a difference between a Ministers helping another Church destitute of an Officer in seeding them with the Word and Sacraments a joyning with others in the Ordination of a Pastor to them and exercising Discipline in that Church in case of Scandal The Church hath some Power to help it self in this Case tho no Pastor For instance a Pastor of a Church not far from us in the time of Persecution leaves England goes beyond-Sea many miles this Church had none to seed them they desired help of their Neighbour Ministers who accordingly did afford them help some preached some baptized their Infants and others Administred the Lord's Supper to them One of the Church fell very foully being seduced by another Professor the Scandal very great so that the Hearts of good People very sad but our Enemies rejoyced it made such a noise in the Country many miles about us that the like I believe have not been known in these Parts I was desired to preach there when I had done my Sermon a Writing was delivered to me wherein the Church desired me to declare to the Congregation which was then very great being no Sermon in the publick place their ab●orrency of such Acts and withal desired me to inform them what was their Duty what they ought to do in such a Case as this I gave them my thoughts thus You are but a Homogeneal Body and so have no power to Excommunicate that being an Act of Authority nor have I any power to call the person to an account and excommunicate But yet this you may do since the person was admitted into Church-Fellowship and Communion with your consent she having fallen so foully dishonoured God so greatly and opened the mouths of Men against Godliness you should first meet together and humble your Souls before God that there should be such Dishonour brought to his Name by one of your Church Then First You have the Lord's Supper Administred sometimes amongst you there you may deny Communion with her Secondly You have times when your Church only meet together for Prayer mutual Conference c. You

M● Quick's Sermo a● Mr. Faldo 's Fun●ral p. 22. What Mr. Q●ick writes I am both an Eye and Ear-witness to About fitty sour Years since he Preached on Mar. 2.5 in Boston in New-England and did think-the P●●●●-man had Faith because Christ tells him his Sins were forgiven but no Forgiveness without Faith up rose one first forsooth he was not satisfied then another after him then Mr. Cotton our Teacher he took up our Pastor's Case and defended it and ten one after another fell upon him Tho' the Text does not say when Jesus saw his but their Faith it doth not follow but the Palsie-man might be included in the word their and his Faith put them on both the Bearers and Palsie-man had Faith This was too common in that Church though the most publick where Seamen and all Strangers came Sir Henry Vane was the Man that did embolden them when Ministers had done Preaching he would find Questions to put to them though they were Strangers Second Question AReverend Author out of a Book composed as he tells us by several Bishops and great Doctors and approved by Authority in King Henry the Eighth's dayes hath Collected these Propositions First That a Parochial or Congregational-Church Government is accordint to the Church of England jure Divino Secondly That the Diocesan or National Government is jure Hamano Thirdly That Protestants except some obscure Writer assert Particular Churches to be the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of Church-Government Among whom saith he there are these differences 1. The Episcopal and Presbyterian differ from the Congregational about the Extent of particular Churches i. e. the Congregational concludes there must be no more than are capable of Personal Communion The former make a greater extent and give too great advantage to Papacy 2. They differ concerning the Nature of Discipline the Congregational being esteemed an Espouser of a Democracy the Presbyterian of an Aristocracy the Episcopal of Monarchy But Maccovius a Theol. Polem p. 161. Keckerman b Syst Theol. p. 3. mention another Aristo Democratical and Dr. Ames c Medul Theol. p. 1. c. 33. thes 20. seems to be of the same judgment Fourthly All Protestants agree in afferting the Independency of particular Churches Thus far my Author That we may understand one another clearly Suppose we then that all the Christians in England that dwell in their several Parishes were such as deserved the Name of Visible Saints these meet every Lords-Day in their Parish-Church as they call it to Worship God where there is but one Pastor Lecturers and Readers are but in few Parishes in the Countrey nor have they any Power in Church-Government 1. Are these the particular Churches you mean by the words Parochial and Congregational I suppose my Brother means so 2. Is every such particular Church the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of the Power of the Keys 3. Are all these Independert my Brother hath said it First I desire my Brother would Name one such Church which the Apostles did Constitute but with one Teaching Elder or Paster Secondly How you may perswade the Pastor to admit the People to be Rulers with them I cannot tell but I doubt we should have a Monarclical-Government set up in every Parish in England which you say the Bishops espouse Mr. Norton as acute and Learned Divine as New-England had being at a Meeting of about forty Elders one that was newly come into the Countrey was reading to the Elders what his Judgment was about Church-Government He would have it to be Democratical quoting Morellus several times What have we to do with Mor●llus said Mr. Norton to me if I cannot prove the Government of the Church to be Presbyterial I will give up our Cause Thirdly If all these particular Churches be Independent I fear we should have wild doings Experience have proved it already At this day we see woful effects of it If there be one or two Gentlemen of Purse Piety and Parts that stick close to the Minister and awe the People things may go on quietly else if there be but two Self-conceited pragmatical Fellows as I have known you should soon see what will become of your Parochial-government Fourthly Suppose the Pastor be foully scandalized by some of his Church one or more how shall the Government be carryed on shall he be Plaintiff and Judge in his own Case I have known a Case where a Pastor had great Offence given I propounded the Case to Dr. Owen * And Mr. Faldo whether that Pastor should proceed according to Matth. 18.15 16 he told me by no means when he heard my Reason We shall meet with hard Cases if we come to set to Government indeed Fifthly Suppose the Pastor himself grow scandalous how shall Government be carried on now Sixthly Good Men and Ministers are subject to Passions and Infirmities whence it is not fit the Government of the Church should be Committed to One alone Seventhly To Govern will is a Gist by it self a Man may be a good Preacher but no good Governo●r Eighthly When our Lord sent out the Apostles and the Seventy only to Pre●●● he sent them out by two and two Mar. 6.7 L●k 10.1 Now a single Paster undertakes all Ninthly The Jewish Synagogues bad several Elders to carry on the Government in one of their Synagogues and we but one 〈◊〉 vident O●●li quam O●ul●s It is true our Pastor with his People may truely be called a Church as that Woman who had no Arms but held bee Pen between her Toes and so wrote 〈◊〉 have seen of her Writing 〈◊〉 may well be said to be Animal rationale a r●●io●●● Creature but had God made the W●●an so at first the Woman had not been a 〈…〉 to Man So here is a Company of V●●ible Stints one Pa●●or here is Preaching Prayer Administration of Sacraments and in some Cases Excresse of Discipline so that it is a true Church but not such a Church as the Aposlles sent by Christ did Con●●itute 〈◊〉 to answer all ends of a Church 't is imperfect defective and our Duty is to write after that Copy the Apostles of Christ have set us Dr. Owen hath proved there ought to be many Elders in every Church 2d Part of the Church p. 138. by Scriptures and Reasons I think sufficiently Soon after the Apostles in the Primitive Churches Mr. Clarkson in his Discourse against Diocesan Churches his first Book p. 5.21 hath shown there were more Presbyters in every Church than were necessary In those Virgin Churches in the Valleys of Piedmont which were never desiled with Popery but kept pure from the Apostles dayes where I find Ordination was with Imposition of Hands contrary to our Men I read in their low Condition seven Elders made a Classis they carryed on their Government by joint Councils they had their Consistories and 140 Pastors heretofore in a Synod Whence this one Teaching Elder or a single Pastor in a Church is a

yet they might have but one Teaching Elder and so could not carry on all Church-work and there ought to be many Elders in one Church saith the Dr. be they six or seven Congregations it comes to the same I have heard that in Lantashire there is one great Parish Church and several Chappels belong unto it in which Ministers Preach and Administer the Lords Supper which do shadow out what I aim at As to the Examples which are brought Mede and Fuller Men of great Learning tell us that in the first Century Christians had a room Dedicated and Appropriated to the Worship of God what their Design is I leave yet they tell us it was but a room in some private Disciples House Nor in the second Century had they publick Places to meet in say our Homilies against Idolatry lib. 2. p. 66. The Lord tells Paul Acts 18.10 I have much People in Corinth How much so much as may meet in one place in a private Disciple's House when their Tables for their Love-Feasts c. are set This is much honour to the Text. Several of the Fathers understand the word Church in 1 Corinth 11.18 to be meant the place where the Church met Contin●ns pro Continento and I think it may be so well understood 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 these were the Church of the believing Corinthians that met together 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the Church The Church here is opposed to their own Houses v. 22. then I know nothing against it but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the 14 chap. 34. may be so understood Let your Women keep silence in the Churches not in the Church as in the 18th V. but Churches so that they met in more places than one in Corinth yet but one Church 2 Cor. 2.1 Our last Annotator Translate the words 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the 20th V. for the same thing not the same place and I think his Reason is good and I have wondered that Learned Men should render the words so in Acts 2.44 Dr. Lightfoot saith the words cannot be so rendered and gives other significations of the words that they will not prove the Question As for the Church in Ephesus which is another Example brought Paul continued there three Years Acts 20.31 The reason of his stay a great and essectual door is opened 1 Cor. 16.8 9. The Word of God grew mightily Acts 19.20 It grew so that they dare venture to burn the Books that were of Value among the Ephesians before the face of the People valued at eight hundred Pounds the least Acts 19.19 Both Jews and Gentiles came in Acts 19.10 17. And how many Christians have we now in Ephesus so many as may meet in one room in a private Disciples House Paul's great door and his word mightily had better been spared for this is but a disgrace to the Text. As for what J●stin Martyr writes that the Christians in the Towns and Villages met on the Sunday 1. How many were there in the Villages 2. Had they any Pastor in the Villages 3. How far were these Villages from the Towns Justin Martyr saith nothing to these Heads Come lower to the Year 252. when the Quarrel was between Cornelius and Novatianus Cornelius in his Epistle to Fabius faith of Novatian●s He was Ignorant there ought to be but one Bishop in that Church of Rome in which were forty six Presbyters seven Deacons c. A little Digression One Bishop in Rome Was not Rome a Metropolis where the Seat of the Emperor was but then it should have been Arch-Bishop but Cornelius saith one Bishop in that Church of Rome And to this day we call the Pope the Bishop of Rome not Arch-Bishop of Rome Simple Bishop can content Cyprian Bishop of Carthage and Cornelius Bishop of Rome which two Cities caused bloody Battels which of them should be the Empress of the World How they then can be esteem'd Men of Truth we may easily judge that dare Preach and Print the seven Angels of the seven Churches in Asia were seven Arch-Bishops when one hundred and sixty Years after those Churches there was no Arch-Bishop in those great Cities But to goe on concerning the Church of Jerusalem I Consent to what he saith and let it stand for our Rule to Act by of it Dr. Owen thus writes This Church of Jerusalem thus called and collected out of the Church of the Jews was the Rule and Pattern of the Disposing of all the Disciples of Christ into Church Societies in Obidience to his Command throughout the World Catechis p. 85. let this stand How many thousands of Disciples did belong to this Church of Jerusalem we cannot tell but this we find Acts 4.4 there were five thousand at that time and Acts 5.14 Multitudes of Men and Women now were added to those five thousand In the 6 Act. 7. we read the Number of the Disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly I suppose no Man will say these were such as we read of 2 Act. 5.9 Strangers if they were yet it hurts not me they were all of this Church and we know Members of Independent Churches in London lived forty Miles distant from them Here was Prayer Preaching Administration of both Sacraments Election and Ordination of Officers Terrible Discipline if I might so call it upon Ananias and Saphira But was all this in one place No sure when there were but the three thousand added they Brake Bread 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Act. 2.46 Beza and Grotius speak fully to my purpose as to the distinct places and that by Breaking of Bread the Lords Supper is intended as in the 42 v. the Salmur Divines A Lapide Dr. Hammond Dr. Owen Mr. Baxter and others whom I mention not do all agree Nor do I think there is any Man will say they did all partake of the Lords Supper in one House at one time much less then afterwards Thus was their Preaching Act. 5.42 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 It is certain then they met in several distinct places both to Preach and Administer the Sacrament yet but one Church How long it was between the day of Pentecost and Stephen's Death I know not but so long thus was their Practice and had been longer if that Persecution had not befallen them If then the meeting in one place had been so essential to a Church as the Dr. makes it we should have seen it here Surely the Apostles with whom our Lord had been speaking concerning the things pertaining to his Kingdom 1 Act. 3. so lately would not do any thing contra-essential to a Church Yea here was matter ready prepared for several particular Churches meeting in several distinct places for Divine Worship had the Lord pleased to have declared that it was his Will that meeting in every such distinct place should make a particular Church and so have given a Pattern how all particular Churches should be Constituted Here wanted nothing I say but the Declaration of his Will We have heard in the time of our Persecution that several thousands of the Scots met in one Field to Administer and partake of the Lords Supper Tho' it was not a House it was a Place yet we do not read that ever the Apostles did so much as once call all the Church together into one place to Administer the Lords Supper that they might leave one Example at least that in every Church there must be but One Table or one Altar as some call it which they might easily have done had one place in their Judgment men guided by the Spirit been so essential to a Church as some make it now Many thousands of particular Churches make up One Body of Christ Why then so many particular Congregations where the Members of one Congregation are known to the others as there may be Elders sufficient to carry on all Church-work may not make one particular Church I know not It is certain that where only one Pastor with a Parochial Congregation make a Church all the Ends of Churches cannot be attained not only Reason but Experience also hath sufficiently proved it Where a Congregation is so far remote from others and so poor that it cannot maintain one Pastor well such a People must do as well as they can but where Congregations are nearer tho' they be poor as I know sew that are not yet they may Coalesce into one Church to attain all Church-Ends so far as our Performance of Duties to those Ends may conduce Suppose there were seven Teaching Elders in a particular Church there is but One of these that Pray Preach Administer the Sacraments Order the Singing at one time all the rest put forth no Official Act but are Attendants as the Private Brethren But if these seven were in seven Congregations every one is at work performing these Acts. As for other Official Acts as Exercise of Discipline Ordination Election of Officers c. they may all meet together and Act jointly and thus it was in our Mother Church in Jerusalem which is more to me than all that is said for One Place One Altar One Bishop I cannot call to mind any Church-End but may be attained as well this way as if they met in one place alwayes and better FINIS