witnesseth Then it taketh awaie or extinguisheth all those mutuall and contynuall dueties beneuolence loue care labour c betwixt the flocke and the ministerie The flocke therbie not knowing or hauing meanes to doe their duetie vnto their ministerie The Ministers therbie so hindered incombred and with-drawen as they either slack or neglect their dutyes to the flocke By this corrupt custome also sondrie intollerable inconueniences grieuous mischieues doe ensue This setting out land or certaine rates by way of lawe or bargaine in euerie parrish or Congregation to the Minister doth hinder the Church from the choice vse of such other Ministers as Christ in his Testament hath ordained to the gouernement and seruice of his Church the parrish or Congregation neither indevouring to haue more neither indeed suffred to haue more or by this meanes able or willing to keep more This setting out landes tithes c to the Minister by way of lawe doth alwaies presuppose of necessity a true established Church and true Minister in those parrishes vnto the worldes end those landes and tithes being appropriate bounde thervnto and hauing none other owners Which coÌ„firmeth and establisheth those grosse popish errors of a personal and continuall succession of Ministers and local contynuance of a visible Churche Againe when this liuing is thus by lawe giuen to a Priest for terme of his life be he neuer so vnable vnworthie or negligent the parrish is so long bounde vnto him and can by no meanes get rid of him yea be he neuer so bad his faultes errors neuer so fowle they cannot without or vntil their Lord Bishop wil geat rid of him they must mainetaine him and receiue his Ministry whether they wil or no. Furder these annual liuinges by lawe and set stipendes by rate presuppose alwaies one permanent and certaine estate both of the Parrishoners Ministers The one euen euerie person euer to be able to pay so much The other neuer to need more or lesse Yea that alwaies to the worldes end all the Parsons al the Parrishoners of that towne shal neuer need or be able to giue more or lesse whether the Lorde send scarcity of pleÌ„tie dearth or cheapnes sicknes or health losse or aduaÌ„tage childreÌ„ or no chardge c. Againe such vnreasonable inequalitie is vsed in the distribution of these liuinges the Parson of some one litle Hamblet where are not tweÌ„tie houses hauing one hundreth or two hundreth-pounds by yeere to liue on an other of a much greater towne not hauing twentie poundes yea peradventure ten poundes by yeere for that chardge he hath to liue vpon And this for euer without regarde of the needes or laboure of them it being alike to them their successors whosoeuer To conclude the tithes set stipeÌ„des of these Parrish Priestes being of the goods of the prophane most wicked and vngodly euen of al their parrish indifferently yet are more odious vnmeet for anie christian Ministers who are not to stande hierdes to such dogges swine to administer to them the gospel and sacramentes for their goods and hire It was not lawfull for the Priest vnder the lawe to receiue the offring of anie stranger from the faith such might not enter into or offer in the Temple Neither nowe vnder the Gospel maie the vnbelieuing haue anie fellowship with the Church or communicate in or intermeddle with anie actioÌ„s of the Church But this contributioÌ„ is an action of the Church a communion dutie of the Sainctes How execrable theÌ„ is this their sacriledge coueteousnes that thus make marchaÌ„dize of y â— holie thinges of God and let out themselues to hire euen to the prophane for filthie lucre The true Ministers of Christ may not be suspected much lesse openly â—aynted of such peremptorie faultes as these which disable him from all ministrie in the Churche and are euerie-where set downe as vndoubted markes of a false Prophet By al which then as by al other arguments of their antichristian office entraÌ„ce and administration we may still and yet more strongly conclâ—de them not to be the Ministers of Christ. Seing neither the office they execute their entrance vnto their office their administration in their office nor yet their maintenance can be ioyned vnto the Church Ministrie or Gospel of CHRIST THere yet remaine a few base stragling offices of their Church vzt Their Church-wardeÌ„s QuestmeÌ„ Parish Clark These are al lay meÌ„ as they call theÌ„ yet intermeddle they with ecclesiastical affaires their offices perticularly I can neither describe nor yet wel distinguish The Church-wardeÌ„s are as yt seemeth an other kinde of Deacons They gather and keepe the Church stocke and treasurie and also the penalties of such as come not to their diuine seruice and also distribute the same vnto the poore the reparations of the Church c they keep one of the keyes of the towne cheste The Quest-men are liker vnto Elders these I suppose they looke to the order and gouernement of the Church as wel Priest as People That the Priest vse his ministerial vestures vessels and trincketts reade his seruice homelies iniunctions orderlie That the people do not bargaine talke or walcke in the Church and Church yarde during the tyme of diuine seruice They also must looke to the ale-houses that there be no tipling or playing during the said tyme and who be absent from their Parrish Church and present such defaltes at Masse Commissaries Courte accordinglie The Parrish Clarck he is the Priestes Accolâ—â—th to help him to say his Mattens and Euen-songe with his due versicles Respâ—nse to help him at his Sacraments Marriages Church-goings Visitations Dirges Rogations at all assayes He ringeth their bells to and after their seruice their knells and soule-peales he keepeth the Church doore keye he sweepeth and â—rimmeth the Church he nurtureth the boyes and dogges that they be not to lowde at seruice tyme yea he may doe yet manie things more if he haue the Bishops letter as in tyme of neede to christen children and to reade diuine seruice in the absence of the Priest c. To stand to shewe the forgerie seuerall defaultes or dissimilitude of these offices from the Deacon or Elders that God hath appoyneted were tedious and needlesse they hauing neither mention nor vse in Christes Testament and Church Thus now haue we summarily pervsed al this rable of the Ministery of the Church of England and haue not founde anie one of them right or almost in anie one poyncte according to the rules of Christes Testament they are all strangers there they belonge not to Christes bodie his Church neither are they knit as members vnto that heade But out of the smoke of the bottomlesse pit they came when that fallen Starre Antichrist had the key thereof giueÌ„ him to his bodie his kingdome the false Church they haue alwaies belonged alwaies serued to him in his seuerall shapes they haue alwaies bene knit as the members to the heade from him
established church vizt such as are in captiuitie sicknes age or in such times place as they knowe not where to finde one day of the Sonne of man He might aswell conclude that because God is able doth saue some in the false Church Therfore priuate meÌ„ ought not to forsake the false Church God is able to saue some in dispertion out of the established Church Therfore priuate men ought not to seek the established Church THe last greatest matter is that we runne before the Princes commandement whose dutie it is to reforme Churches Priuate men might not so much as sweepe them much-lesse build them For this is to erect a state gouernmeÌ„t because the power of the Church is both publicke greate We haue aboue shewed that y e Church hath Gods coÌ„mandement authoritie alwaies to erect Christes ministri gouernment amongst them That the Church in this estate consisteth only of of priuate men neither are there anie true Ministers anie where to be found vpon the earth neither any extraordinarie Ministers to be looked for seing they are long since ceased Therfore the Church in this estate consisting only of priuate men ought to erect this ministerie and gouernment ells should they also cease and neuer be had againe vpon the earth and so should there neuer be any established Church ministrie Sacramentes c agayne in this world yet here must be noted by the way that Mr. G. runneth too much vpoÌ„ and wresteth too far these wordes priuate men when we speake of the Church consisting only of priuate men Now vnto his crimination the Church hauing this coÌ„mandement aucthoritie giuen of God vnto the worldes end we before shewed him that no Prince might take it away or without great wronge hinder them from the performance hereof yea that the seruantes of God ought not to be staied from doing the coÌ„mandements of God vpon anie restrainte or persecution of any mortall man whosoeuer For this we alleadged the examples and practize of the Apostles who then had bene guiltie of the same disobedience rebellion if Princes in this busines had bene to be stayed for or their restrainte had bene a sufficent let yea that persecution and the crosse of Christ were vtterly abolished if the Church and faithfull were not to proceede in their dueties vntill Princes giue leaue We shewed also that the obedience and practize of Gods will was no disobedience or preiâ—dize to the Prince That we attempted nothing beyonde our calling neither transgressed in our calling We medled not with the reformation of anie publick abuse either in the common wealth or in their Church otherwise then by prayers vnto God and godly exhortation We only according vnto Gods commandement refrained from their idolatrie and other publicke euils and assembled together in all holy and peaceable maner to worship the Lord our God and to ioyne our selues together in the faith vnto mutual duties This we shewed to be the duetie of euerie priuate man that would be saued to leaue the false Church and to seeke the true Church And being thus assembled ioyned in the faith we shewed it to be their dutie together to seeke that ministrie and gouernment which Christ hath left vnto his Church and for the Church to erect the same VNto the Apostles proceeding without the licence of Princes he maketh a double answere One in respect of the persons of the Apostles that they were furnished with a special coÌ„mission and authoritie from CHRIST himself to set vp his kingdome which commission and power the Pastors and Teachers successiuely receiued deliuered ouer to others so that priuate men may not haue this power The other in respect of those Princes in the Apostles tyme which were all heathen and therfore it had bene bootlesse to sue to them But where there is a christian Prince that holdeth the fundamentall poynctes of the christian faith though otherwise this christian Prince doe erre in some matters of doctrine or touching the rules of discipline euerie godly priuate man is to keepe a good conscience not breaking the vnitie and peace of the Church But not to take publicke authoritie to reforme THese instances of the persons of the Apostles and Princes as they are litle to the purpose so doe they him as litle good If the commandement of God were sufficient warrant to the Apostles to doe their worke though al the Princes of the world resisted then must the commandement of the same God be of the same effect to all other instrumentes whom it pleaseth the Lorde to vse in their callings to his seruice also though all the Princes in the world should withstand and forbid the same For neither dignitie of the persons that are vsed make the commandement of God of more authoritie or necessitie to be donne neither yet the greatnes or the goodnes of the persons that withstand this commandement of God make yt of lesse authoritie or necessitie Onlie let the seruantes of God be sure to haue the commaundement and calling of their God for that they doe and then they neede not feare the Powers that are placed of of God for the praise and not for the punishment of the good Our question then is not whether priuate men may doe that which is not their dutie to which they haue no commanndement as this accuser surmizeth to bring vs into danger and hatred But whether they may not doe that which God commanndeth them within the limites of their caling As to forâ—ake idolatrie and the false Church to seke the true worship of God in the true Church though all the Princes of the world whether belieuers or infidels should forbid the same And this we affirme to be the duetie of euerie perticular person whosoeuer forbid We say not now that priuate men may reforme the false Church abolish publick idolatrie or depose a false ministrie that the Kinge setteth vpp This were to breake the boundess of their calling to intrude vpon the Princes office and great cause had they then to feare for he beareth not the sworde in vayne Againe our question is not whether it is the office and dutie of Princes to see abuses reformed both in the Church and common Wealth which we thinck no man to be so ignorant or barbarous to denie except the Anabaptistes But vvhether the Church ought not now amongst themselues freely to practize CHRISTS Testament either in erecting his officers and ordinances or in reforming or correcting anie fault or abuse that ariseth amongst them vvithout staying for the Princes licence yea though the Prince should vpon the paynes of death forbid This we affirme to be the dutie of euerie perticular Congregation CHRIST hauing therfore giuen vnto each and all of them his sacred power and aucthoritie to binde and to loose in earth and to doe all thinges whatsoeuer he hath commaunded them vvith promise to be with them vnto the end of the world He hath giuen them the
nations that were gathered togither by the false Prophet into battell against Christ his armie how he should smite the heatheÌ„ with the sharpe sword that issueth out of his mouth rule them with a rod of yron and tread theÌ„ in the wine-presse of his fierce wrath how he should giue the flesh of all this people with their Kinges Capitanes and mightie men as a praye to the fowles the vncleane spirites and how he should take the Beast and with him the false Prophet that wrought signes before him wherein he deceiued them that receiued the Beastes marck and worshipped his Image and cast these both aliue into that lake of fire burning in brimstone Who now if not such to whome the scriptures are hidden and this Booke sealed could in this generall falling away from the gospel this generall departure of the true established Churches out of the inhabited this vniuersall corruption confusion of all estates degrees persons callings actions both in the Church commune welth in this estate in this defection seeke for or pleade for a true visible established Church the true ministerie of the gospel true worship ministration sacraments gouernment order Or who that were not droncke and had all their senses bound intoxicate with the whores cuppe could affirme this coÌ„fuse Babel these cages of vncleane birdes these prisons of foule hatefull spirits to be the Spouse of Christ the coÌ„gregatioÌ„s of the Sainctes the true established and rightly ordered Churches of Christ Is it likely that these men haue as yet read the whores misterie written in her forehead or as yet know what belongeth to the true established Church worship administration sacraments ordinances gouernment of Christ though they haue in his Testament which is dayly read amongest them an exact absolute parterne of al these things before their eies And haue not in their Churches anie one thing in their practise and proceedings not one pinne naile or hooke according to the true patterne Yea though they heare the trompets of the Lord blowen against them though they see the viallz of the Lords wrath powred vpon them and all their doings yet stop they their eares wincke with their eies lest they should see with their eies and heare with theire eares and vnderstand with their heartes and be conuerted healed And therfore are so farr from finding place to repentance that they opeÌ„ their mouthes into blasphemie and railings especially these men that haue the marcke of the Beaste vpon whome that euill malignant sore is fallen as you dayly see and heare in their bookes pulpets And how well these gouernours mariners merchantmen and all that trafique on this sea can endure the borning of these their pleasant gainefull wares how they waile howle and crye out when this heauenly fire is cast out into their shippes Let the behauiour of these Bishopps their hierarchie and Priestes towards the seruants of God that speak against their AntichristiaÌ„ proceadings shew and how they bestir them to quench the burning of the harlot smiting rending Christs poore witnesses with tongue tooth and naile casting out of their mouthes a flood of raylings reproches sclanders criminations against theÌ„ of poysoned bitters waters corrupt doctrines blasphemous opinions vnsufferable peruerting abusing the scriptures to hide tollerat or defend the antichristian forgeries abhominations disorder enormities of their Church ministrie that are discouered condempned by the word of God in the mouthes of vs his simple witnesses Of this sort amongst manie other such like are two bookes notoriously infamous lately published by one George Giffard a Priest of their orders against certeine christians whome he calleth Brownists Donatiste In the one of these Bookes he laboureth to defend cleare the parish assemblies of the Church of England of such heinous crimes as the said christians obiect against them and forsake them for witnessing suffring in bandes persecution against the same vnder the handes of those popish Prelats Romish Priestes In the other Booke he indeuoreth to recouer the blame he iustly suffred in the first for reproching sclandering blaspheming accusing these faithfull and innocent christians applijng himself to proue them Donatists by comparing together them from poinct to poinct Both which Bookes are here answered and now at length published to the pervsing iudgment of al men Where they shal see how well he hath delyuered and acquitted their Church in the first As also how iustly he hath proued his charges accusations and blasphemies in the first second The â—ower principall transgressions wherwith we charge and for which we forsake these parish assemblies Namely the prophanenes wickednes confusion of the people which are here receiued reteined nourished as members The vnlawfullnes of their whole ministrie which is imposed vpon them reteined mainteined by them The superstition idolatrie of their publique worship in that deuised Leitourgie which is imposed vpon them And the forgerie of their antichristian ecclesiasticall gouernment to which al their Churches stand subiect are such and so apparant as not only proue these parish assemblies not to be true established Churches of Christ But if it were admitted which can neuer be proued that they somtimes had bene true established Churches yet these transgressions obstinatly stood in and defended are sufficient causes of our seperation from them in this degenerate estate For where such prophane coÌ„fuse multitâ—des without anie exception seperatioÌ„ or choice were all of them immediatly from publique idolatrie at one instant receiued or rather compelled to be members of this Church in some Parish or other where they inhabited without anie due calling to the faith by the preaching of the gospel going before or orderly ioyning togither in the faith there being no voluntarie or perticular confession of their owne faith and duties made or required of anie and last of all no holy walking in the faith found amongst them Who can say that these Churches consisting of this people were euer rightly gathered or built according to the rules of Christs Testament Or who can say that this people in this estate are the communion of Sainctes Or who without sacrilege in this estate can administer the holy things of God vnto or in the same communicate with this people Likewise where these parishes haue a false antichristian ministerie imposed vpoÌ„ them who can say that they are the true established Churches of Christ to the building ministerie wherof Christ hath ordeined instituted and prescribed a certaine ministrie vnto the worldes end Or who without sacrilege may ioyne vnto or communicate with a false antichristian ministrie Christ also hath gyuen vnto his Church perpetuall and alsufficient rules in his holy word for the whole administratioÌ„ gouernmeÌ„t of his established churches to which they are bound wherby they ought to buyld proceede and walke Those Churches then that receiue an other Leitourgie an other foundation other rules for their
the faith or had made profession therof where they haue not the true ministrie of CHRIST but a strange antichristian ministrie imposed vpon them vvhere they haue not the gouernement of CHRIST but of Antichrist ouer them where their administration worship is not after the Gospel of CHRIST but after their popish idolatrous Leitourgie Al this may safely be defended without falling into anie such inconvenience as M r. Giffard threatneth AS to the heresie he speaketh of we doubt not nether euer thought but the best Church that consisteth of mortall men may fall ether of negligence or of ignorance into greiuous offences and dangerous errors Yea we doubt not but that some famous Churches Christians may fall into such errors as he termeth fundamentall the holding wherof should vtterly subuert the faith As in the Church of Corinth Galatia Asia there where that denied the resurrectioÌ„ That reuiued the Ceremonial â—awes That held the doctrines of Balaam and Nicholas But this we hold withal that no true Church or Christian will maintaine anie sinne or error wheÌ„ yt is euidentlie shewed coÌ„vinced vnto them by the worde of God much lesse persecute such as reproue admonished them as you doe Or if they doe whilest they remaine in that estate they are not of vs to be held the true Churches of CHRIST TO your second chardge we answeare That we haue learned to put difference betwixt error heresie All good men as is said doo may erre but no good man wil defend or persist in his error when yt is shewed and conuinced vnto him Obstinacie ioyned vnto error after yt is dulie convinced maketh heresie Furder we say That anie error being obstinatly holden and taught after it is duelie convinced reproued vnto him maketh an hereticke and heresie in that partie or in that Congregation that so holdeth and teacheth it and doth separate from the faith communion of Christ. Wherfore we can but wonder at your ignorance who staÌ„d for a Teacher in your church and yet hold some errors obstinatlie held taught against the truth of God not to be heresies or at the least not to be fundamental though you see by expresse rule euerie hereticke after one and the second admonition to be shunned Yet say we not that though euerie error thus obstinatlie held be heresie and euerie transgressioÌ„ against the lawe be sinne that therfore all sinnes are equal or all errors of like indignitie The lawe and iudgments of God teach vs to put difference NEther is ther cause whie you should chardge vs or we confesse our selues guiltie of pride presumption intrusion into Godes iudgment seat for condemning those assemblies which the whole worde of God condemneth in all their doings Greater is your pride presumption c that in this maner condemne and blaspheme the truth and seruantes of God for reprouing your sinnes that thus plead for and coulor these filthie abhominations of your Church which are most odious to euerie good conscience But this knowe for certaine howsoeuer the Shipmasters Maryners and Marchantmen of these wares howle and crye out howsoeuer the false Prophet labour to gilde and adorne the false Church with the iewells ornamentes and titles that belong to the true Church how much soeuer the Harlot doe glorifie her self and say in her heart that she sitteth as a Queene and is no widowe and shall see no sorrowe Yet shal her plagues come in one daye death and sorrowe and famine and she shalbe burnt with fire because the God that condemneth her is a strong Lorde IN that you chardge vs with the breach of the rule Math. 18. vnto you this still proceedeth of your former vayne conceipt arrogating vnto your Churches such names titles prerogatiues duties as belong and are only giuen to the true Churches of CHRIST Not being able noâ— endeuouring to approue your Churches by the Testament of Christ although you were often required and vrged by vs so to doe wherby all contention should soone haue ceased you beene cleared iustified we iustlie conuict and chardged In the meane while we affirme vnto you That these golden rules onlie belong vnto the true Churâ—h of CHRIST and that the Court without the Temple vvhich is giuen to the Gentiles is to be cast out and not to be measured The Cannons of the POPE which your Church imbraceth more fitly agree vnto you then the rules of Christs Gospel which your Church reiecteth and blasphemeth But that we maie the sooner see our fault shew vs we pray you how we might execute this rule vnto you how we might tel yt to your Church how we might be heard and haue redresse For if by your Church you meane the ConvocatioÌ„ house you see how they haue often openly reiected this sute If you meane by your Church the Bishops whom you cal the cheif gouernours of your Church you see they blaspheme this truth caling the order of Christs gouernmeÌ„t intollerable daÌ„gerous to the subuertion of Prince state they hate persecute imprison al that speake for or seek the same But if nowe you meane by Churches your Parish Churches alas you see they want power they can mend nothing be yt neuer so heinous or hereticall they must receaue what their Lordes the Bisshops impose and endure til they redresse How then to whom or to what end would you haue vs complaine vnto your Church in this estate Or with what equitie and conscience can you thus reuile and coÌ„demne vs for breaking Christs order towardes your Church when you see your Church wil not be subiect vnto Christes order but persecuteth vs and al such as reproue their faultes and seek to doo Christes will because their worckes are euil and wil not endure the light when they are neuer so litle examined therbye As shal furder appeare but by a cursorie touching of these principal transgressions following THE FIRST PRINCIPAL TRANSGRESSION VVHERVVITH YOVR CHVRCHES ARE CHARDGED IS THAT they worship GOD after a false maner Their worship being made of the invention of man euen of that man of sinne erroneous and imposed vpon them We leaue your first answeare vnto this Transgression and our replie vpon your said answeare to be pervsed and compared by the indifferent Reader and now addresse our selues vnto this your second defence FIrst to make our aâ—cusatioÌ„ his answere more cleare M r. GIF traÌ„slateth our PropositioÌ„ into a Sylogisme thus VVhatsoeuer assemblies worship the true GOD after a false maner their vvorship being made of the inveÌ„tion of maÌ„ euen of the maÌ„ of sinne c the same are not the true Churches of GOD. But th' assemblies as they generallie staÌ„d in England doe vvorship the true GOD after a false maner their vvorship being made of the inventioÌ„ of man c Therfore the assemblies of EnglaÌ„d be not the true Churches of GOD. We finde M r. Giffard so ful of legier du main that we had neede looke narrowlie
wil you pleade for your popish feastes of Christmass Al-Hallowes Candlemass c. For your diuiding and deuising Christs life into a stage-playe celebrating his birth vpoÌ„ one daye his Circumcision vpon an other his Epiphanie as you cal yt vpon an other c yea anie of these vpon one special daye more then an other But where haue you learned to keepe them after your heathen and prophane maner with garnishing your earthlie houses decking your bodies with gaye clothes great cheare in glottonie excesse ryot idle games dicing dauÌ„sing mumming masking wassaling what president can you shew of such worshipping and feasting except it be that holie daye which the Israelites kept before the Calf vnto the Lorde in the wildernes Exod. 32. 5. 6. where haue you thus learned CHRIST Is this to keepe the feaste with the vnleauened breade of sinceritie and truth to crucifie the old man to be planted to the similitude of his death of his resurrection c What caÌ„ you there pleade for your superstitious deuotioÌ„s towards your Ladie keeping a Daye an Eaue a Fast a Feast a cessation from al labours an especial worship to her Annunciation an other to her Purification yeerly in your Church It were good you would consider of these things what you can answeare for certis we poore ignorant Christians can see no other mystery in the matter but that yt is detestable idolatrye eueÌ„ that verie powring out your drinck offringes and burning incense to the Queene of heauen Furder what wil you then say to your celebration of deade Saincts keeping one solemne daye vnto them al at once And againe seuerallie to Iohn Baptist and to the Apostles as they are allotted in their Pageant George also your St. Patron must not be forgotteÌ„ A daye also is kept to the martyre Stephen an other daye to the Innocents with their daye eaue fast feast cessaâ—ion special worship to euerie one perticularlie What warrant can you shew for this out of the Bible The Patriarcks Prophets godly Kings were neuer so celebratedâ— neither haue you anie commandement or president in al the newe Testament thus to celebrate them Paule Peter whilest they were aliue desired to be remembred and prayed for of the Church but neuer required anie such dutie being deade Furder what wil you answeare for your keping a daye cessation c to St. Michael al Angells how wil you excuse your self of most high idolatrie advancing your self in thinges you neuer sawe rashlie puffed vp of your fleshlie minde and not holding the heade depriuing others of their Crowne It wil not then stand to saye you worship the Lorde by these deuises for so said your Fathers in the wildernes To morrow the holy day of the Lorde The Lorde he wilbe worshipped according to his owne wil reuealed to vs in his worde and not by our deuises how holie soeuer they seeme If then God be not worshipped with this kinde of worship their Idolls are or to speake rather as the Prophets and the Apostles doe the deuil is worshipped therbie Leuit. 17. 7. Deâ—t 32. 17. 2 Chronicles 11. 15. 1 Corint 10. 20. And thus your owne conclusioÌ„ which you tooke so heynously falleth apace vpoÌ„ you and you haue not brought one reason to saue or cleare your self As to your doctrines by you verballie alleadged concerning God and his worship the idolatrous Israelites and Iewes in their greatest schisme diepest apostasy could haue alleadged manie true doctrines also But nothing is more sure then this Christ is not a Priest for such sacrifices as his Eather is not pleased with Nether is he a Mediator of anie other TestameÌ„t then his owne As to the Dedication of your Churches vnto deade Sainctes and the caling them by their owne names the first you say was the fault of the Papistes but you in caling them after the same names doe not sinne Was it a fault in your predecessors so to dedicate cal them and shall it be no fault in you so to cal them as they had dedicated left them vnto you But you so cal them only to distinguish them Whie this excuse they also had But they had furder superstition in these places and Sainctes And doe not you nourish the same superstitioÌ„ in the weake and animate the Papistes in their sinnes by ratifying these their doings and calling your Churches by the same names they baptized them in But might we aske you where you thus learned to cal distinguish christian CongregatioÌ„s in the Scriptures your answeare place is readie Luke Acts. 17. caleth a streate in Athens Mars streate and aske vs if he therfore dedicated it to that heathâ— God We answere you that if Luke should so giue the name cal it speaking in his owne person for himself he should sinne commit idolatrie in naming the Creature of God after an Idol as you do in caling the Daâ—es your Churches after the names of such Sainctes Dauid saith he wil not take the names of their Idolls in his lippes But Luke here recordeth the historie of such thinges as came vnto PAVLE in Athens and the vulgar name of the place whether the Athenian Philosophers ledd Paule naming yt after their maner not that himself so caled yt willingly or to giue vs boldnes to do the like but rather to manifest their fault superstitious feare they stoode in of their Idolls as Paule verse 22. sheweth by y e reproofe of their fault teaching vs to auoyde the like And caÌ„ you collect y t because Luke writeth that they of Athens named a streate after Mars they of Alexandria signed a ship vnto Castor Polluâ— that christians may by those places name or cal anie thing in their possession after Idolls or deade Sainctes Is this the best doctrine you can drawe vse you caÌ„ make of this Scripture yet is it the only place of Scripture you haue vsed to approue any part of your publique worship which we had blamed vnto you We wil not stand to vrge the Poperie superstition of some of the Sainctes names of your Churches how some of them are caled after Christs sepulchre others after al the rable of Sainctes both men weomen Sainctes in the POPES Calendare but proceade to the rest of your tromperie AS your Coâ—â—inations Rogations Purifiâ—ations Your Comminations you saye are a part of Canonicall Scripture which is to be read in the Church Partes of Canonicall Scripture indeed they are by you miserably dismembred bownd vp together and wickedly vsed and peruerted to such superstition idolatrie being vsed in the place vpon the daye of popish shrift Or rather as your Portesse saith in the place of the Discipline of the church and of the Penance vsed in the beginning of Lent Thus in the best vse of it by your owne confession yt is an execrable Idoll in that it is brought into your Church and supplieth the place of Christes discipline in his Church
in subiection ANd now this aucthor not being able to iustifie the publique excommunicatioÌ„ of their Church of England seketh to withdrawe vs from the present question by mouing two newe questions And from those after his accustomed maner laboureth to confute vs. Because the Assumption euen as he himself with longe studie had changed contriued and framed yt could not yet serue his tourne His first questioÌ„ is this If the Bishop with sondrie other Ministers of the Gospel do dulie excoÌ„municate an obstinate wicked man is he not excommunicate before God We first answeare That the Bishop or the Church of EnglaÌ„d doth not excommunicat for anie wickednes or crime whatsoeuer be yt neuer so heynous though obstinacie be ioyned thervnto as for Adulterie murder witchcraft c but only for contempt of their Courtes for not appearing or not paying their exactioÌ„s The we answeare that the Bishop neuer caleth anie other Ministers to this actioÌ„ of excoÌ„munication Furder we answeare that this Lorde Bishop is no Minister of the Gospel or Church of Christ and therfore he hath nothing to do with th' excommunication of anie member of the visible Church Neither may or wil anie true Ministers of the Gospel ioyne vnto the Bishop in this busines But if they should we say that such excommunication is not allowed before God because it is founde contrary vnto his worde Yet this we say that the obstinate wicked are bounde and excommunicate before God whilest they continue in y t estate albeit the Church here should neglect or refuse to cast them out For the iudgments of God do neither take effect by man neither depend vpon man or stay of man but the iudgments decreed are accomplished and the wrath of God is reueled from heauen against al impietie and vnrighteousnes of men that are contentious disobey the truth Finally though it were admitted which can neuer be proued that the Bishop and these Priestes were true Ministers of the Gospel yet wee say that this excommunication donne by them in their priuate assemblie or consistorie as they cal yt is contrarie to the rules of Christs Testament and vnlawful For there we finde this power committed giueÌ„ vnto the whole Church by our Sauiour Christ who sendeth al meÌ„ to tel the Church Math. 18. 17. There we finde the execution and publishing of this performed in by the Church 1 Cor. 5. We find also the remitting receauing in againe of such excommunicate to belong to be referred vnto the whole Church 2 Cor. 2. 6. 7. 8. Furder we there finde the iudgmeÌ„ts of God denownced against y e whole Church and euerie member of that Church where this censure of excommunicating the wicked is neglected reiected 1 Cor. 5. 2. 6. To these if we add the peculiar interest that euerie member hath in the worde doctrine and faith of Christ and in al the publique actions of the Church As also the perticular dueties that euerie member oweth vnto the whole Church together with the sondrie charges exhortatioÌ„s euerie where in the Scriptures giuen them to watch to admonish to exhorte and that not onlie the priuate members but eueÌ„ the greatest officers of the Church To marcke them diligently that cause diuisions offences coÌ„trarie to the doctrine that they haue learned and to auoide them Rom. 16. 17. 2 Iohn 10 To take heed what and whom they heare To hold such accursed be they men or Angels that preach vnto theÌ„ besides that they haue receaued Gal. 1. 9. To admonish Archippus Col 4. 17. To withdrawe themselues from euerie brother that walketh inordinately and not according to the tradition they haue receaued 2. Thess. 3. 6. To note such as abey not the worde and not to be coÌ„mingled with them that they may be ashamed 2 Thess. 3. 14. Yf their brethren sinne to rebuke them if they repent to forgiue them if not to retaine their sinne Luke 17. 3. 4. And to procede according to the rule Math. 18. 15. 16. 17. These perticular dueties chardges dulie considered there can be no doubte but euerie christiaÌ„ is a Kingâ— Priest vnto God to spie out censure cut downe sinne as yt ariseth with that two edged sworde that proceedeth out of Christs mouth As also that th'excommunication of anie member belongeth to the whole Congregation the whole bodie together seing al the members haue like interest each in other c Albeit the Church thus assembled be to vse the help or Ministerie of the most fit member for the pronowncing of this excommunication c. HEre then fal to the grounde those 4. false interpretations of Math. 18. 17. Tel the Church 1. Some vnderstanding by the Church the Pope who they say is Christes Vicare general and supreame head of the Church 2. Others would vnderstand it of the Lord Arch-Bishops grace or of the Lord Bishops who apart may excommunicate absolue for the whole church 3. Some others there are that vnderstaÌ„d by this word Church the companie of Elders aparte from and without the people which companie they cal the Consistorie and this ought to excommunicate c. 4. The last sorte are in a quite coÌ„trarie extremitie and these would haue the people without the Elders to excommunicate elect c and that by pluralitie of voyces THe two first sortes depend of one lyne and builde their prehemineÌ„ce vpoÌ„ the promise made to the Apostle Peter Mat. 16. 18. 19. where the keyes of the kingdoÌ„ of Heauen are giueÌ„ him And vpon the Apostle Paule his example who deliuered Himeneus Alexander vnto Sathan 1 Tiâ—oth 1. 20. They bring also the commaundement of Paule vnto Timoâ—hy To rebuke the Elders that sinne opeÌ„ly 1. Tim. 5. â—0 and the commaÌ„demeÌ„t vnto Titus to reiect an hereticke Titus 3. 10. Touching the power of the keyes we haue aboue in the handling of the Priestes absolution shewed yt not to depeÌ„d vpoÌ„ the dignitie of meÌ„s persons or offices but vpoÌ„ the vertue truth of God his worde from which wheÌ„ Peter or the Pope himself departeth his worde not onlie bindeth not but is lyable vnto reprofe bownd by the worde Which worde is giueÌ„ not to Peter onlie but to the whole Church that is builte vpon that rocke and to euerie member therof and hath like power to binde or to loose in the mouth of the least as in the mouth of the greatest For it is impossible that the word of God should be made of none effect As to Paules exaÌ„ple we suppose they can euil shewe any such authenticke warrant for their Apostolike aucthority ouer al Churches persons or such measure of grace as Paule had therfore we thinck they ought quietly to remaine within such lawes and limits in their calings as Paule hath left order For the commaundments giueÌ„ to Timothy Titus they can neither proue that they executed them in such poÌ„tifical maner as they do or in
their owne names alone The contrarie appeareth in the verie words of the commandements Neither if this were so can they shewe themselues to haue an Eâ—angelistes office as they had THe other two sortes the one wherof giueth this power of excommunication vnto the Consistorie of Elders without the people the other vnto the people by pluralitie of voyces without the Elders fal into these errors and confusion in that they knowe not or at the least doe not dulie consider what either the communion of Sainctes or the holie order of Christ is in his Church For if they did they would neuer thus vnnaturallie separate the members from the bodie or diuide the bodie into partes The first sorte of these interpret these wordes Eipeâ—te â—cclesia Tel the Conâ—isâ—ory building it vpon the Iewes San hedrin or Sunedrion That as the Iewes in those tymes complayned vnto their Elders in this councel and the councel cast out of the Syâ—â—gogue such as they iudged offenders as Iohn 9. 22. 12. 42. So our Sauiour Math. 18. 17. sendeth to this newe CoÌ„sistory who haue like power to caste out of the Church We may here as in a mirâ—our behold how far the wisest whilest they followe their owne deuises do erre from the truth Is it likelie or possible that our Sauiour Christ would fetch his patterne for the Elders of his Church and th'excuting these high iudgments from that corrupt degenerat Sunedrion of the Iewes which by th'institutioÌ„ of God was merelie civile and not or deined for causes ecclesiastical as appeareth Exod. 18 Numb 11. Deutr. 1. the Priestes bearing the chardge and hauing the deciding of al ecclesiasticall causes Numb 18. Deut. 17. But this councel of theirs was now mixed of the Elders of the People and the Priestes and handled al causes both civile and ecclesiastical indifferently Mat. 26. 3. Actt. 4. 5. How vniustlie and vngodlie they dealt may appeare by their handling our Sauiour and his Apostles from tyme to tyme. Now as there is no likenes to collect these surmises from that place so is ther no one circumstance in that scripture to leade thervnto There being taught how al Christians ought to reproue and prosecute offences one towards an other al being generallie comprised within this rule to admonish be admonished aswel Elders as others There is no mentioÌ„ of anie sending vnto such Consistory of Elders as they â—eigne vnto themselues would erect The Heathen Publicane there spokeÌ„ of haue no reference vnto neither giue anie occasion to speake of the Iewish Sunedrion The heathen al men knowe were not excoÌ„municate or caste out but kept out of the Temple they might not enter Deut. 23. The Publicanes though in ciuile conversation they were abhorred of the precise Pharasies yet were they not caste out of the TeÌ„ple being Iewes or Proselites Luk. 18. 10. So that our Sauiour there rather teacheth his Disciples by the present estate estimation of the Heathen the Publicane how to walke towards th'excommunicate by th'example of the one to avoide al spiritual communion with them as with heathens as also by the example of the Publicane al civile conversation as much as may be theÌ„ anie way there sendeth to this Consistory wherof through the whole Testament of Christ they can shew no warrant But directlie contrarie it were to the order power and libertie of the whole Church to the duties of euerie member and to the duties of these Elders in their offices That they should in this maner draw all the actions affaires of the whole Church into their priuate Consistory before theÌ„selues only Elders were appointed for the preseruatioÌ„ of the order of the Church and not for the subuertion therof for the defence of the libertie of the least and not to plucke away the libertie of all Elders were appointed to instruct to guide the Church in the worde and wayes of God and not to plucke the worde of God from them into their owne handes only and to debarre them from walking in the waies that God hath prescribed and commanded Though Elders be gouernours and ouerseers of the Church yet are they seruantes of the Church and not Lordes ouer Godes heretage They are members of the whole bodie and not the whole body If al were one or some fewe members where were the bodie The bodie is not one member but manie And as yt coÌ„sisteth of manie meÌ„bers so hath yt vse of al and may be separate from none How vnnatural then are those members which thus separate seclude themselues from the whole yea rather sequester seclude the whole from them and arrogate assume the publick duties power of the whole into their owne handes as though God had giueÌ„ al giftes vnto them and they had no neede of others And thus puffed vp with preeminence of their owne place and excellencie of their owne giftes despise all the rest as base ignorant vnworthie to be in their Consistory to haue anie voyce of consent or dissent there alleadging them to be tumultuous contentious factious vngouerned ignorant inclined to the worst c thus abuse they their owne giftes and depraue others These are euill speaches and harde reportes to be gyuen out vpon the people of God the chosen of CHRIST partakers of the same pretious faith and glorious inheritance with themselues members of the same bodie even members of CHRIST with them sanctified with the same spirit and abhorring these euils wherwith they are chardged humble and easie to be ledd ordered and gouerned by the worde of God in all thinges Not presuming to speake beyonde the proportion of their faith knowledge or without necessitie or due order which who so transgresseth is publickly reproued So that these fitlier agree to these tumultuous assemblies where all the prophane are receaued as members then vnto the holie Churches of Christ where none but the faithfull are admitted or remayne Wherfore these accsuations which are caste vpon the people are rather caste vpon the Church yea vpon Christ himself who is the aucthor of this lawe commandement who sendeth to the whole Church and coÌ„mandeth the whole Church not the Consistory to excommunicate yet is not Christ the aucthor of disorder but of peace neither haue the Churches of God custome to be contentious For the auoyding of which disorder and contention are Elders appointed of God to instruct and guide the Church in doing the wil of God And not to withdrawe those actions which God hath commaunded to be donne in and by his Church publickely into a priuate Consistory into the handes of a fewe Wherin they make theÌ„selues transgressours of the wil of God disturbers and violaters of that holy order which CHRIST hath established in his Church and of that heauenly Syâ—phony wherin CHRIST hath contempered the whole bodie together And now as the fault and pride of these Elders is great and intollerable of the one side
so were it againe a most monstruous confusion high rebellion on the other side if the people should thus expulse and shut out their gouernours and guides those most fit members that God hath giuen them to these actions from amongst them and then decide and determine causes by pluralitye of voyces What can be deuised more barbarous and vnworthie the Church of CHRIST then this Were not this as if the bodie should offer violence vnto or laye aside the eyes and then diuide yt self into factions and partes for the busines yt hath to doe This balloting by suffrage or plurality of voyces might well be a custome amongst the heathen in their popular gouernmentes but yt is vnhearde of and vnsufferable in the Church of CHRIST whatsoeuer some dreame vnto themselues therof There all from the highest to the lowest in all actions enquire the will of God which being knowen they all then walke by the same rule and with one consent doe the will of God accordingly There is no diuision in that bodie neither anie thing donne according to the will of man but according to the will of God only all hauing receiued of and being guided by one and the same spirit euen as God is one and CHâ—IST not yea and naye Now though all the members haue receiued of this spirit of God yet haue not all receiued in like measure Though all the bodie be light yet is not all the bodie an eye But God that hath made the bodie to consist of diuers members hath distributed diuers giftes in diuers measure vnto them Some he hath giuen Pastors some Teachers c for the helpe and seruice of the whole which members the whole bodie vseth according to their gifts office and function The whole bodie asketh instruction of their Teachers councel of their Elders c. The people are commanded to obey their leaders and to submit to acknowledge to honoâ— them and to haue them in super-aboundant loue These are of God set ouer the flocke to watche to instruct admonish exhort rebuke c yet not to plucke awaye the power liberty of the whole Church or to translate and assume the publicke actions of the whole Church into their owne handes alone They are men and may erre They themselues euen for al their doctrines and actions are subiect to the censure of the Church or of the least members of the Church if in any thing they be founde to erre or transgresse Yea if they remaine obstinate that Congregation wherof they remaine Ministers members is to procede against them to excoÌ„municate them as any other member For as it hath bene said the iudgments of the Church are not the iudgments of men but of God to which al the members of the Church must alike be subiect Which iudgmentes as they are committed to the whole Church with perfect rules for their maner of proceding in euerie circumstance so is the Church herevnto to vse such members as God hath giueÌ„ made most fit For Paule Apollo and Cephas are theirs And this doth no way diminish the power interest of the Church in this action Or translate these publick affaires froÌ„ the whole vnto these Elders whose couÌ„cel directioÌ„ and seruice the Church vseth herein no more then a Prince or State may be said not to doe those thinges wherevnto they vse the aduise seruice of their Councel By the Church then here we vnderstand euerie perticular Congregation subsisting of al the members Euerie of which Congregations hath equall interest in the worde promises iudgments and power of Christ. CHRIST hath giueÌ„ vnto al Churches the same testament ministrie lawes and ordinances with like chardge aucthoritie to obserue the same He hath giuen them the same order and communion in all places one and the same rule to walke by towardes them within the faith as also to auoide cast out such as depart from the faith or walke inordinaâ—ly Neither hath CHRIST giuen vnto anie one Church more power or prerogatiue then vnto al other Or set one Church aboue ouer an other otherwise then to wish seke the good each of other of al to admonish exhort stirr vp each other as occasioÌ„ requireth And vnto this euerie member of Christ is also bounde in his caling but not to intrude encroach vpon the publicke actions duties of the whole Church or the perticular functions offices of others As to Pastors Elders their office extendeth but vnto those flockes wherof the holy Ghost hath set theÌ„ Ouerseers and not vnto all Churches in this maner to which their ministrie neither doth nor can extend Agayne ExcoÌ„munication is no part of their ministrie Neither hath God tyed it vnto the office of any but left it a publick dutie of the whole Congregation to be donne of al with one coÌ„sent How presumptuous then is he y t vsurpeth this power ouer yea of other CongregatioÌ„s to excoÌ„municate absolue elect depose c for them yea that thus plucketh froÌ„ them that power chardge which Christ hath giuen vnto them But how monstruous intollerable were the pride of that Consistory which consisting but of a few perticular members shal assume the power duties of so many Churches into their owne handes We are of minde that the best and learnedst of them shall finde their owne perticular offices in their owne perticular flockes as much as they can well performe and dischardge though they should not thus encroach vpon and assume the publick duties of the whole Church much lesse of mâ—nie Churches And sure if this Consistory should duely intend all the seueral occasions complaintes and matters of offence that howrely arise in so manie sondrie Congregations especially where all the multitudes are receiued in as members they should doe nothing ells through their whole life but sit in this Consistory yea their whole liues would not suffice to a litle part of this chardge where al th'offences of these multitudes both publick and priuate were duly admonished and prosecuted according to the commandement of God And so should these Pastors Elders neuer be able to exercise their owne ministri officers in those peculiar CongregatioÌ„s where they are chosen to serue Againe if euerie Congregation should be thus posted ouer and sent to this Consistory for the censuring of euerie peâ—ticular offence offender howe manifest soeuer c manifold inconveniences and mischieues would thervpon ensue As that they must be driuen oft-tymes to receaue and ioyne vnto the most wicked abhominable in their prayers sacraments yea if the Pastor himself should fal into some sinne heresie they must of force suffer him to administer vntill this Consistory had caste him out Many were the reasons more the inconveniences that might be alleadged against this presumptious irregular Consistory which hath no grownde in the worde of God but vtterly
subuerteth destroyeth and corrupteth the whole order coÌ„munioÌ„ of the Churches openeth a wide gap to al licentiousnes prophanenes of maners and conuersation wherin if the thowsand part of the heynouse faultes of these wicked multitudes these Sodomitical christians of these tymes should be noted prosecuted censured they should then in one weeke haue as few christians as now they haue many but nowe by this reiecting Gods ordinance erecting their owne deuises al sinne aboundeth ouer-floweth and no sinne though obstinatly held persisted an is iudged to deserue this censure Especially here in England where they excommunicate for no sinne but as the faultes aboue alleadged are held but bleamishes in their worship so the greatest sinnes wickednes are held but infirmities in their life by the Prophets of these dayes But vnto this their Consistory againe They that thus shall erect advance one perticular Congregation as a Iudge a Mother ouer others their Sisters must also erect in the same Congregation or Consistorie one perticular Pastor y t must be a Iudge a Father ouer other Pastors his bretheren And then let them duly consider how far this differeth from Or at leaste how then they can coÌ„demne that Apostatical Sea of ROME and that vnholy Father y â— sitteth therin And let Mr. GIF that is so wel skilled in discipline so derideth our ignorance now at length coÌ„sider better of this reason Seing euery perticular Congregation of Christ hath the power of our Lord Iesus Christ against all sinne and transgressioÌ„ to censure the sinne and to excoÌ„municate the obstinate offenders c. And seing these Parishes haue not this power of Christ neither in themselues in perticular nor yet in their Consistories as hath bene proued whether this conclusion which he termeth so absurde will not followe That they are not therfore the true churches of Christ. And let him y e next time frame a better answere then the Geneua Consistory which though for the reasons abouesaid yt can yeild him no help yet may it not be compared with the popish courtes of these antichristiaÌ„ Bishops Neither will his other kindes of excommunication in their English Romish Synodes proue better Our answeare then vnto his second question is That the excommuncication of an hereticke after he is dulie convinced founde obstinate belongeth not to anie Bishops or Elders of other Churches but vnto that Congregation wherof this heretick stood a ioyned member Although we graunt that for the discussing of matters in doubt and the convincing of some notorious subtile heretick the ayde of other Churches is verie necessarie But the bloudie procedings of these popish Bishops that in their Consistory not onlie convince the heretitke after their scholastical and vnchristiaÌ„ maner but deliuer him to the secular powers to be burned with fire whether the qualitie of the heresie deserue death or no by the lawe of God wherbie they make the magistrates together with theÌ„selues guiltie of murder declare vnto al men how vnlike their popish Consistories are to the holie free wel ordered Synodes of christian Churches But blessed be God that hath somewhat restrayned their crueltie and heweÌ„ their antichristian hornes by statute heere in tâ—is land that they cannot in that maner procede vnto bloude howsoeuer their tongues are not restrayned therbie froÌ„ pronowncing that truth of Christes Gospel which they cannot and dare not vâ—dertake to convince heresie and those Christians which yeild not to their antichristian yoke and enormities Hereticks Vnto the Convocation also of these Romish Priests and horned Cleargie we answeare That it carieth no shew of a christian Synode or Councel and so their excommunication of as litle value as their Sire the Popes is Furder we answeare That Synodes and Councels were not instituted to plucke away the power or â—o execute the publicke dueties of the Church but to instructe stir vp and confirme them in their duties to help them to decide controversies to shew them the rules of Gods worde and not to breake them or to make newe Moreouer we saye That in a christian Synode no christian ought to be shut out but hath equal power and freedome to speake in assent or dissent of anie thing there handled as occasion requireth Yet ought euerie christiaÌ„ to vse this power and libertie aright not disturbing the holie order of the Church presuming to speake before their auntients or against anie thing by them said without shewing iust cause c alwaies keping theÌ„selues within the compasse of faith and sobrietie Who so doth otherwise is reproued of al and iudged of al as a disturber NExt commeth the Suspension or half communication of the Church of ENGLAND namely the Priestes repelling notorious offenders the open Wicked from the Sacrament Mr. Siffard being demaunded of vs simple christians what warraÌ„t he could shew for this strange censure in the Testament of CHRIST and what aucthoritie the Priest there hath to excommunitate anie member of the Church if so be this Suspension were in nature of excommunication Answeareth that it is in nature of excommunication to such as haue bene before admitted yet not to be compared or anie thing neere so great as excommunication And for the Minister that he is to take heed to himself that he giue not holie things to doggs To beware of that which may giue publick offence bring the holie mysteries into coÌ„tempt Because these his answeres doe no way shew or proue that we demaund it is needful that we make a litle â—urder search to seeke out the nature of this Suspension and how neere yt commeth to excommunication We finde that such as before were partakers of are now openlie repelled from the Table of the Lord for notorious sinne wickednes by the Priest alone Now touching this Sacrament doth not the Apostle say The Cup of blessing which we blest is yt not the communion of the blood of CHRIST The breade which we breake is it not the CommunioÌ„ of the Bodie of CHRIST Because we manie are one breade one Bodie for we all partake of one breade 1 Cor. 10. 16. 17. We see here this Sacrament of the Supper to denote that communion which all that partake therof haue with Christ as his members And againe that communion which they haue one with an other in CHRIST as one an others members This their suspensioÌ„ then being a publick â—emouing of notorious offenders from the communion of Christ and from al benefite of his death From the communioÌ„ of the Church and froÌ„ al interest of the Saincts We would knowe of him what it lacketh of excommunication and what excommunication is more If he say that the suspended are not repelled from the ministrie of the worde and prayers of the Church as th'excommunicate are We would then know of him where he hath learned to receiue such to the communion of the ministrie or anie actions of the Church that are repelled from al communion and fellowship with
profession of their owne faith obedience they cannot be receiued as members or haue communion with the Church Then vntil Mr. Giffard proue that the prophane multitudes and open wicked which neuer made anie voluntarie profession of their owne faith and obedience may be receiued as members into the Church he cannot iustifie these Parish assemblies of England or convince vs. Furder we graunt that wicked men such as fal away from their profession and obedience shal daylie arise in the church ells there should be no cause of Excommunication But when their sinne is publicke then ought the Church to ceÌ„sure it and if they be founde obstinate to caste them out ells were there no vse of ExcoÌ„munication We graunt also that the Church sometymes of negligence delaying in due tyme to caste out such wicked is notwithstanding if they amend vpon admonition to be held the true Church of God And this our aduersarye himself Pag. 56. acknowledgeth that we confesse although now forgetting himself his heart being fraught with malice he bursteth foorth in the gall therof accusing and sclandering vs to hold these heresies That where any wicked and open sinners worship together with the Church as members of the Church there the Couenant is disanulled with the whole Church Againe that where corrupt maners breake forth in those that professe the Gospell they be not only vtterly voyde of fayth which offende but also all they that worship together with them though neuer so much grieued at their sinnes are fallen from the Couenant Thirdlie that we make the stablenes of Gods Couenant to depend vpon the worckes of men and not of the free grace and mercie of God How could this accuser drawe these heresies from this assertion It is the Church of CHRIST vvhich hath the power to Excommunicate though it fault much by negligence in executing the same Doth not the expresse contrarie herein appeare How can he then reconcile these chardges of his vnto this proposition of ours Or can he produce any one sentence that euer we wrote or spake conteyning such odious doctrines as these Yf not these heresies must stil retourne to his owne throate as to the sepulchre froÌ„ whence the sprange these chardges must remayne vpon his reckoning not vpon ours WE hold that the open prophane and wicked such as were neuer caled vnto the faith caÌ„not be receiued into the Church as members before they make open and voluntarie profession of their owne faith and obedience He that hath from the beginning distinguished light from darcknes hath alwaies made difference and separation betwixt the world the Church caling the one the Sonnes of God the other the daughters of men preseruing the one in his Arcke drowning the other in the floode he chose and separated to himself out of the whole world one peculiar Nation and people to be his visible Church to whom no prophane which made not professioÌ„ of the same faith might be admitted or ioyned in their worship The worde Ecclesia or Church we knowe to be a companie caled forth from the world as were CHRISTS Disciples and the faithfull in all places at the first gathering of the Church Againe we hold that such as are dulie entred into the Church falling from their profession and after due admonition remaine obstinate and hardened in their sinne ought by the Church to be excommunicate And if the Church being admonished stirred vp vnto their duetie refuse to obey execute the commandemeÌ„t of God that then vnto the faithfull it ceaseth to be the true Church of God and ought to be auoyded vntil they repent The Church of CHRIST must euer be obedient vnto CHRISTS voyce which voyce when they openlie despise wilfully resist they are a companie of rebells not a companie of Sainctes When they fal away from the faith they fal away from the Couenant of God when they obstinaâ—lie persist in sinne wilfully despise Gods voyce they fal away from the faith Faith belieueth reuerenceth and obeyeth Gods worde so far as yt is reueled vnto them and neuer wilfully despiseth or reiecteth anie anie part of the same God can neuer be seuered from his worde they that despise reiect Gods worde despise reiect God himself Christ ruleth and reigneth by the scepter of his owne worde they that are not subiect vnto but wilfully disobey that word are not subiect vnto Christ haue not him a Kinge but a Iudge ouer them Seuere lawes iudgments are set downe in God his worde against presumptuous sinne yea against al sinne wherof they denie to repent God hath executed these iudgments vpon the Angels that sinned vpon the original world vpon the Nation of the Iewes Neither wil anie vayne titles of Church Couenant c. excuse or deliuer them being founde in the like transgressions from the like iudgments God is iust his iudgments are alike pronounced executed against al as against one being founde wilfully remayning in the transgression of his lawe Nowe then vvhilest vve conclude that vvhere the people were neuer rightly caled vnto the faith or gathered vnto CHRIST and orderly ioyned together in Christ But multitudes of prophane al sortes of vvicked persons idolators Atheists c euen the whole land without any choice any separation receiued into their Church as members without any voluntarie profession of their owne faith that in this estate they cannot be esteemed the true planted Churches of CHRIST With what conscience or truth can this vngodly man herevpoÌ„ defame divulge vs to hold this heresie that where corrupt maners breake forth in those that professe the gospell they be not only voyde of fayth which offend but all they also which worship together with them though neuer so much grieued at their sinnes are falen from the Couenant How can he liken these rowtes of prophane Atheists and wicked persons of the world to the faithful seruantes of CHRIST in his Church or compare their open wickednes which they commit even with greedines to the faultes eskapes of frailety or negligeÌ„ce in y e Sainctes Againe whilest we affirme That where open obstinacie is ioyned vnto publick sinne whether yt be in the whole Congregation or in any perticular member there that Congregation or that member cannot by vs be iudged faithfull or within the outward Couenant vntill they repent with what feare of God or shame of men caÌ„ this maÌ„ publish vs to hold that where any open grosse sinne is committed by anie and they stil through ignorance or negligence are suffred in the Church there the Couenant to be disanulled with the whole Church And so we to fall into this heresie To make the stablenes of God his Couenant not to depend vpon mercie and free grace promised and bownde with an oathe but vpon our worckes yea vpon the worckes of other whom we must iudge THis heresie after he himself hath deuised in our name he procedeth to coÌ„fute yt with manie wordes shewing the stability
thought that all the communicantes at the Lordes Table had bene ioyned commingled together into one spiritual body euen into CHRIST as manie grapes are there bruzed into one cup manie graynes into one loafe Furder we had thought y t no obstinate offender whose sinne is publicklie knowen might haue beene admitted to that holie Table without wilful sacriledge and high prophanation of those holie mysteries both in all the Communicantes and in the Minister Wee reade in the lawe plentifullie That the leprous or polluted person defiled whatsoeuer touched him whether person vessel holie or ciuile c and that such person on vessel c remayned vnholie therebie vntil they were clensed according to the lawe The Prophet Haggai confirmeth the same and saith that whatsoeuer holie thing bread wyne or oyle a polluted person toucheth yt is made therbie vncleane The Apostle also sheweth in expresse wordes That as a litle leauen leaueneth the whole lumpe so one open vnworthie receiued to the supper of the Lorde maketh all the communicantes guiltie and their reioycing or feast not good before the Lord likening the whole Church to the lumpe the wicked person and sinnes kept amongst them to the leauen their reioycing to the eating of the Paschal c Which most direct place this ignorant sacrilegious Priest would put away and falsifie by likening this reioycing here spoken of to a glorying in the sinne of th' incestuous as though the Church of Corinth had euer bene so beastlie And by endevouring to separate the elements of the breade and wyne in this Sacrament from their mystical sense the communicantes that receiue the same together from their spirituall communion they haue one with an other the whole Church from the preparation and care they ought to haue both generally and perticularly in administring and receiuing the Sacraments And hauing thus royled the pure fountaynes he confowndeth the sense and distinct doctrines of the Apostle by bringing in certaine instances where the wife seruant passenger vpon some especial dueties and necessities may be occasion eate ordinarie bread with th' excommunicate Whervpon he concludeth that the faithful also may vpon necessitie as if the Church wil not caste out the open wicked and impenitent communicate with them in the supper of the Lorde And if so be these faithful mourne and are grieued for this wilful sacriledge of the Minister and the rest of the Church then they touche not their sinne but the holie thinges of God and are cleare Ezechell 9. because the separation from the wicked cannot alwaies be in bodie as in the cases by him alleadged of eating common breade with them But let this cauiller knowe that there is no comparison much-lesse anie consequence betwixt the eating common breade and the eating of the Supper of the Lorde with the open wicked and impenitent There is no such spiritual mysterie communion or commixture in the first as in the second Common bread is not forbidden the wicked but these holie pledges vtterlie are they ought not to be caste to hogges and dogges Neither are we forbidden al ciuile conversation so absolutelie with them as we are all spirituall communion In the one vve see prouision and exception made for duetie and necessitie In the other there is no such duetie or necessitie neither anie such prouision and exception mentioned in the Scripture vntil these Priestes to defend their port-sale and open sacriledge deuised these shiftes The scripture vtterlie forbiddeth and repulseth the open wicked impenitent from this holie banquet by more then the Cherubins shaking the edge of a sworde So far are the open wicked from being admitted to this feaste as they are to be caste out to be deliuered vnto Sathan so far are they to bee kept from all communion with CHRIST and with his Church But none are to be admitted to this Sacrament but such as outwardly stand in the faith and therby vnto the iudgment of the Church haue fellowship with CHRIST and his members The verie action or Symbole yt self sheweth this communion vvith CHRIST and one vvith an other 1. Corinth 10. 16. and 12. 13. No sophistrie can disioyne the mysterie or signification from the outward elements and action neither the communion from the participation in this action so far as vve may iudge As the vnworthie receiuers are guiltie of the bodie and bloode of the Lorde so the Church in admitting administring vnto and communicating vvith them is guiltie of most high sacriledge and prophanation of the holie thinges of God especially they doing it wilfullie and wittinglie Now then if they all communicate in this action and this action deliuered in this maner be sacriledge how should they not all be guiltie Can anie man here say that anie of the Communicantes in this case toucheth not the sinne but the holie thinges of God vvhen first in this action they are all spirituallie commingled and ioyned together then the verie action vvhich they all doe as they doe it is most highe sacriledge not a touching but an open if not a vvilfull prophanation of the holie thinges of God Can th' aucthoritie of the Church excuse them before God Or vvil it here excuse them to say they cannot doe vvith it because the power of the discipline is not in their handes We haue aboue shewed that euerie member hath interest in the power of the Church And that the power to receiue in and to caste out belongeth to the vvhole Church and not to the Presbiterie or anie perticular member of the Church onlie Neither yet these matters referred to the wil or choise of the Church but rules prescribed thē whom and vvhen to receiue whom and vvhen to caste out As vpon publick profession of faith and obedience with desire of ioyning the Church cannot refuse but must receiue so vpon publicke sinne and obstinacie ioyned to the same the Church must then caste out and cānot retaine without sinne Which sinne becommeth so much the more heynous whē they doe it wittinglie willinglie but most of al whē obstinacie is added whē the Church wil not be admonished neither amēd Though euerie private member cānot excommunicate or reforme the publicke actions of the Church which are donne contrarie to the worde yet euerie priuate member may ought to refraine such publick actions as they see to be contrary to the worde and to admonish the Church c. And in so doing they depart not from the Church neither withdrawe from the Communion so much as preserue the Church the communion Our fellowship must alwaies be in the faith out of the faith we maie haue no communion with man or Angel in knowen sinne They that depart from the faith depart from the Church and breake the cōmuniō We may not followe a multitude or the mighty in euil It behoueth euerie christian that receiueth to knowe what the action is he doeth to knowe what he receiueth and howe he receiueth to knowe by
shew that one sheepheard at one the same time can diligently feed guide two or many flockes far distant in place Or that one candle may be put into two candlesticks and giue light vnto two seueral houses far distant asunder at one the same instant If the one be impossible so is the other Yet stand these men Bishops or Ouerseers not only to manie Churches each one of them But their Primate giueth or rather selleth liceÌ„ces to other inferior Priestes some one of them to stand a Minister to two yea peraduenture to three seueral flockes This is an vsual matter and passeth by way of staâ—ute lawe amongst the Chapleins Doctors of the Church of England who may haue be Non Resident some of them from two some from three Congregations or benefices especially all his Graceless Chaplaines by a singular prerogatiue But to retourne againe to our purpose these Arch and Lord Bishops cannot be said to haue this office of gouerning Elders for that they professe to be Ministers of the worde Sacramentes which duetie belongeth to the Pastors office And because they exercise absolute power ouer Pastors Churches and causes to depose excommunicate absolue and determine in their owne sole name power which no true Elder Minister or meÌ„ber of Christ may do Reasons also might be drawen from their sitting chandging aspiring to the richer higher roomes FroÌ„ their Princely Lordly flate pompe trayne reuenues pallaces wherin they liue in all wordly excesse pleasure idlenes to which thinges whilest they attend it is impossible they should faithfully execute dischardge any ministrie in the Church From y e apparaÌ„t odious sinnes of their persons liues that appeare and breake out in their conversatioÌ„ which is most vnchristian fleshly and vnholy As coueteousnes oppressioÌ„ extortion open wrong doing vâ—uâ—ie ambition pride idlenes louers of pleasure such as cannot gouerne their wiues children and families in the feare of God sobrietie or common honestie but nourish and bring them vp in pride vanitie idlenes superfluitie voluptuousnes gaining chambering and wâ—ntonnes yea peradueÌ„ture vnchastiâ—g and that not vnknowen to the inselues who also themselues are not all of them of the most chaste and temperate life some of them being giuen to wyne strikers â—orcerers blasphemers skorners and deriders of the most holie exercise of the preaching of Gods worde causing their counterfeight and natural fooles openly in their owne house at 〈…〉 feastes to make a â—ermon o◠〈◊〉 or fallie in the most high despight of God and of his blessed ordinance Not here to perticulate the sondrie heresies contrarie to the truth and blasphemies of the truth holdeÌ„ amoÌ„gst them the least of which faultes publickly knoweÌ„ are enough to diâ—able the best of them from exercising any publicke ministrie to the Lorde in his Church if we may belieue the Apostle To conclude this one reason if there were no more might shew and proue them to be no christian Bishopps in that they exercise some ciuile office or offices together with this their pretended ministrie Which is not only expresly forbidden vtterly vnlawful by the worde of God but also impossible for any man to performe both or either of both faithfully whilest he keepeth both God himself hath made two distinct and seueral offices and appoincted vnto them two distinct seueral persons for Ministers It being no more lawfull for a Bishop to execute the ciuile Magistrates office then for the ciuile Magistrate to administer the Sacraments What moÌ„struous parsons then are they which thus confounde commingle in their owne persons these two diuers and distinct offices and powers Might not they that assume both the swordes into their handes carry them acrosse also in their cote armour aswel as their holie Father the POPE What a monstrous confusion and perturbation make they both in Church and common wealth herebie disturbing the holie order that God himself hath set for the gouernement both of the Church and common wealth in this worlde remouing yea vtterly breaking downe therbie all the limites and bowndes which God hath set and established for all estates degrees offices callinges actions so that no man by this meanes either knoweth his duetie or orderly walketh within the bowndes of his calling wherbie it is come to passe that the whole land ouer-floweth with all impietie violence cruelitie and iniquitie as in the dayes of NOE Thus by al these reasons haue we proued and al that haue not vtterly made shipwrack of faith good coÌ„science or that stand not vowed bond seruantes to their apostaticall throne must confesse That these Arch Lord Bishops are no true christian Bishops according to the Gospel of CHRIST neither haue or exercise any lawful office or ministri of or in the Church of CHRIST If then they be not members of that body beloÌ„ging to that heade CHRIST IESVS it must needes followe that they their offices ministrie are false antichristiaÌ„ belonging to an other head an other bodie eueÌ„ Antichrist and that whoore the false Church his spouse If their inordinate power and irregular ministrie be found contrarie to al the rules and ordinances of Christes Testament then can yt not be of God belong vnto or vsed in Christes Church or be blessed to the gouernement or saluation of his people Then must it needes be the power and throne of Sathan giuen to the Beast accursed giuen to seduce and to drawe all the children of wrath to distruction Neither shal Mr. Giffard or all the false Prophets belonging to their throne be able to tourne away or withstand those iudgments and plagues which are powred out of the Lordes viall vpon the throne of the Beaste or with their soft tongues to licke whole the woundes of the Beaste that are giuen with that two edged sword that procedeth out of CHRISTES mouth It shal not help them though they raile and blaspheme and gnawe their tongues for grief For their kingdom shal wax darke and Antichrist shal coÌ„sume be abolished as he is reueiled eueÌ„ by y e same light the Lord himself hath spoken yt How weake nowe sclender are Mr. Giffards defences for these his Lordes the Bishops That the Bishops haue not their caling consecration or power from the Pope but from their Church That they haue by oath renownced the Popes vsurped power and tyrannie That they do not maintaine or defend the religion and lawes of Antichrist but professe and aduance the gospel of Christ and by the liuely word cut downe all idolaitre heresies abhominations That they vsurpe not a Lordship ouer the faith and consciences of men but their peculiar power is onlie in the administration of external discipline Therfore we vvith manifest and vvicked sclander call the Bishops Antichristian If you demande the proofe of al this wee refer you to Mr. Giffards bare affirmation without anie one reason in his learned answeare to the Brownistes Page 75. If he were himself
sometime of an other minde you must thincke it was before he had so neere friendship with or was imployed in such trustie seruices by his Lord of Londō Who as also his Lords grace must not be driuen to proue euerie thing they affirme that were enough to put young diuines vnto their pontifical mouth is sufficient warrant to all the Churches in England Yet I would of their curtesie they would giue vs their Schismatiks that cannot be so satisfied leaue to doubt though we wil not contēd whether their Caling Consecration and this their Power first came not from the Pope For albeit we haue heard that the offices of Prouincial Bishops Arch Bishops Metropolitanes where almost when this general defection from the gospel so much foretold of began to breake out and appeare longe before the Pope obtayned his Supremacie ouer al other Churches and Ministers Yet might it be that this maner of their caling solemne consecration and lardge irregular power of his Lords Grace Lord Bishops sprong from their vnholie Father the Pope Who when he was inthronized by Sathan had receiued the Dragons high commission to be his Vicare general in earth could not of his fatherhoode but prouide for these his natural childrē and bestowe them in his garrison Cities as his Tetrarches Lieutenants Tribunes with magnificent titles priuiledges power and authoritie to rule in his name and absence euen as his owne engrauen image ouer all Realmes Countries Territories within their Fathers dominiōs For as we haue also crediblie hearde there was neuer a Lorde Arch-Bishop or Lorde Bishop with such titles priuiledges power hearde of before the Pope created them Notwithstanding because wee haue these thinges but bie hearesay and would be lothe to affirme of things so vnsure we wil content our selues to haue proued and shewed the Arch Lord Bisshops to be no true Ministers of the gospel and Church of CHRIST and therfore of themselues antichristian from whom or howsoeuer they rise it skilleth vs not Neither shall it auaile them though they haue broken their faith and schismed from the Pope cast off his yoke renownced his vsurped power and tyrannie when they themselues are rounde to vsurpe retaine and exercise if not the same yet as antichristian enormous a power as the Pope retayning the same Courts Officers Cannons constitutions priuileges ouer all Churches Ministers causes doctrines censures they themselues not being subiect to the censure of anie Church exercising their aucthoritie and commandementes contrarie vnto and aboue all lawes both of God and of their Prince whose Royall Courts and writts are not of power to baile anie one committed by the leaste of their hierarchie assuming vnto themselues both the swordes exercising together and at once both ciuile and ecclesiasticall offices c. How well they aduance the Gospel of CHRIST that blaspheme the same and pronounce the rules ordinances and ministrie therof intollerable and persecute all such as either speake against them or for yt Let the tyrannous hauocke they make in the common wealth of poore christians in the prisons of the land shewe How wel by the liuelie worde they cut downe all idolatrie heresies and popish abhominations let the seruice-booke and publick worship of their Churche shewe Which whilest with a stronge hande they obtrude vpon euerie conscience as also impose vpon the Church is not this to tyrannize and exercise a Lordship ouer the faith and conscience Or to speake as he doth is this nothing but to execute the external discipline to make and impose a newe Leitourgie for the whole administration of the Church Or is it likelie that this marcked Minister of ANTICHRIST knewe what the outward gouernment of CHRIST in his Church meaneth that saith yt concerneth not the conscience Is there anie more dreadful or reuerend action on earth amongst men then the iudgmentes of CHRIST in his Church which are al most holie and true Or doe not these concerne the conscience Doth not euerie action of which there are such certaine lawes set by CHRIST himself nearelie concerne the conscience to doe it according to the same when the least abuse neglect or swaruing from the rule euen in the least circumstance that is enioyned in the least censure doth so deface the action is so offensiue preiudicial do not those actions which are donne for the saluation of soules that are said to binde in heauen not concerne the conscience Or doe not those rules which are giuen for the direction and preseruation of the publick communion of the whole Church and priuate conuersation of euerie member therof without the obseruation of which rules there can be no order no dutie either publick or priuate no holie walking in anie caling kept concerne the conscience Except Mr. Giffard can imagine such a Congregation and such members therof as either neuer sinne and so need no watching ouer admonition reproof Or ells such a Church and members therof as make no conscience of anie thing as when they sinne will not amend wil not heare admonition or suffer reproof which is the meanes giuen of God to bring them to amendement Yet Mr. Giffard maketh this holie outward gouernment of CHRIST ouer and in his Church not to concerne the conscience the myserable diuines of this age not to be of necessitie to the beeing and preseruation of a Church the blasphemous Bisshops of this land not to be a thing tollerable with manie other reprochfull blasphemies of the same which are not of anie christian almost to be hearde or repeated much lesse pronounced and defended These husbandmen are they that caste the Sonne and heyre out of the vineyarde that wil not haue him reigne ouer them but take the regiment into their owne hands deuising and erecting a newe forme of gouernement vnto the Church as these their popish Courtes Cannons Customes Officers declare and persecuting with al hostility and tyranny all such as pleade for Christes gouernement and wil not subiect their bodies and soules vnto their antichristian yoke But yet for all this they exercise no Lordship ouer the faith and conscience though they vsurpe exercise and impose this strange ministrie ministration and gouernement in and ouer the Church All this saith Mr. Giffard is but th'administration of exernall discipline and concerneth not the conscience especiallie if it be seared with a whote Iron as Mr. Giffard is Wherfore we doe impudentlie and wickedlie sclander when wee therfore conclude that the Bishops be antichristian and whosoeuer is ordayned by them hath his ministrie from Antichrist and from the Deuil What kinde of ministrie your Lord Bishops exercise and aucthoritie they vsurpe by that which is alreadie written the reader may iudge or at leaste hath a direct way shewed furder to examine What kinde of rule they keepe or as you call it discipline they execute remaineth to be tryed in the fourth principal transgression Where if you make not a better defence for it then you haue donne for their
al these Parsons stand subiect hauinge sworne their Canonical obedience to their Courtes Cannons commaÌ„dements to their sommance censure controlement for al their actions ministrie conversation to be made Ministers deposed from their ministrie silenced sequestred suspended by them The true christian Pastor as by vertue of his office intangleth not himself neither intermedleth with â—iuile actions and affayres But these parrish Parsons especialie these of the Countrie are busied and almost wholly entangled with renting tithing prowling their Parrishners whether faithfull or vnfaithfull riche or poore Widowes or Oâ—phanes they marrie they burie c by vertue of their office and are â—o all outwarde seeming and iudgment rather Rieues and Bayliffes then Ministers of the Gospel Yea if it be true which some writers of no smale accompt both olde and new haue written of them these parrish Parsons were at the first deuised and brought in to serue the Metropolitanes in the offices of Rieues and Bayliffs to gather vp their rents c. Againe the true christian Pastors office cannot be possessed by anie ciuiâ—e person But the parrish Parsons office may be and often is bestowed vpon Ciâ—ilians Phisâ—â—ons who if they weare the Priestes weedes inioyned It sufficeth Not here meaning or speaking of impropriatioâ—s which haue no office and chardge of anie Ministrie yt being transferred to a Vicare endoâ—ed Moreouer the christian Pastors office caÌ„not be kept or executed by a man absent or by anie other in that Congregation wherof he is chosen then by the elect of that Congregation But the Parrish Parsons office may be kept by a man absent executed by an Attourney or Curaeie Finnaly euerie true christian Pastor is by that his officie a Bishop But no Parrish Parson is by vertue of that his office a Bishop Therfore and for al these reasons abouesayd the parrish Parsons office can in no iuste intendement be held the true christian Pastors office NOwe let vs procede to their entrance this being first a position perpetual That euerie true Minister of the Churche must not onlie be caled to a true office but must haue a true right caling vnto that his office otherwise he is no true Minister but an vsurper an intruder a theife a murderer Euerie true Minister then by the rules of the worde ought to be thus caled Euerie perticular Congregation being a faithfull flocke destitute of some Minister for example of a Pastor ought to make choice of some one faithful christian of whose vertues knowledge iudgment fitnes and conversation according to the rules in that behalf prescribed they haue assured proofe and experience in some christian Congregation or other where he hath liued Such a one the whole Congregation being gathered together in the name of God with fasting prayer for the especial assistance of his holy spirite to be directed to that person whom the Loâ—de hath made meete and appointed vnto them for that high chardge and Ministrie In which Election euerie perticular member of the said Congregation hath his peculiar interest of assent or dissent shewing his reasons of dissent in reuerent maner not disturbing the holie and peaceable order of the Church Whose exceptions and reasons are to be considered of and compared to the rules of the worde if they be founde peremptorie and true As the partie to be of no founde iudgment in the faith of no sufficient knowledge in the scriptures a drunckarde a smiter coveteous one that ruleth not wel his owne house wife children theÌ„ yeildeth the whole Church to their reasons or rather to the word of God But if their exceptions be vnsufficient or vntrue then procedeth and standâ—th their Election and the persons that take them are publicklie reprouâ—d according to their offence This choice thus made accepted and determined the elect is to be publicklie ordayned and receiued in and of the same CongregatioÌ„ wherof and whervnto he is chosen If there be an Eldership in that CongregatioÌ„ by them as the most meete instruments with fasting prayer exhortations c if not then by the help of the Elders of some other faithful Congregation one Churche being to help and assist an other in these affaires But if the defection and apostasie be so generall as there be not anie where anie true Elders to be founde or conveniently to be had yet then hath the Church that hath power and commandemeÌ„t to chuse and to vse Ministers yea that only hath that most high and great spirituall power of our Lorde Iesus Christ vpon earth committed vnto their handes power also to ordaine their Ministers by the most fit members and meanes they haue For the Eldership doth not add more power but more helpe and seruice to the Church in this action Neither doth this action which is but a publishing of that former contract and agreement betwixt the whole Church and these elect the Church giuing the elect receiuing these offices as by the commandement of God with mutuall couenant and vowe each to other in al dueties belonge to the Elders onlie as separate from the Church but to the Elders as the most fit members and instruments of the Churche to doe yt for and in the Churche Otherwise when the true ministrie ceased as in the generall apostasie they could neuer againe be recouered in the Church because they cannot haue this ordination of true christian Elders and so must the ministrie sacraments and ordinances of Christes Testament cease for euer and the true established Churche neuer be seene againe vpon earth Vnlesse with the Papistes they â—il make a personal successioÌ„ of Ministers in some place euer since the Apostles tyme. Or with Mr. Giffard make a true publick ministrie sacrameÌ„ts c in the Church of Rome in the diepest apostasie Which yet of al other is the most absurd PropositioÌ„ that euer I suppose was vttered by anie man or published and allowed by anie Churche contrarie to al the rules of Gods worde and eueÌ„ to it self For how can there be by anie reasonable man immagined or seene publicke apostasie and publick faith in the same estate at one and the same instant Likewise if of necessity the ordinatioÌ„ must always be donne by a christian Presbutrie or Eldership we woulde then knowe of them by what Elders Mr. Luther Mr. Caâ—uine or our Englishe Bishopps in K. EDVVARDES daies were ordayned Other Elders then of the Popish Churche there were not then to be founde Now these are sure groundes that cannot be doubted of The true ministrie of Christ doth not belonge vnto and may execute no ministrie in the false Churche Neither yet hath the execrable ministrie of the false Church anie thing to doe to ordaine the true ministrie of CHRISTES Churche neither is their Ordination auaileable If then the Churche of Rome and the ministrie therof were false and antichristian then cannot the ministrie of these men which was then in that estate giuen and
condition not to preach against any thing by publick aucthority established how vngodly and enormous soeuer they be And also haue submitted their whole doctrines persons to these their Ordinances not to teach anie truth or against anie error that they inhibite to preach or cease to preach to administer or cease to administer at their direction and inhibition And for their priuate estate by them to be enioyned what kind of apparel to weare wheÌ„ they ride walke abroade or administer Not to marrie without their knowledge consent or licence euen to this or that perticular woman c. Must not this needes be an excellent ministrie and ministration of the Gospel that is thus mancipate to and by these slaues that is thus bought and solde limited prescribed restrayned when they can proue that the Gospel may be in this maner vsed in the true Churche of CHRIST or preached by the true Ministrie of Christ we wil then yeild to their whole ministration and acknowledg them the true Ministers of Christ. But in the meane while because this is impossible and cannot without blasphemie be enterprised without sinne be thought because also we finde vpon this present Ministrie of theirs euen al the markes of the false Prophet that are written in the booke and al the markes of the Beast we must hold them as they are except we wil with them condemne the truth of God and call CHRIST execrable Neither yet is this their preaching considered euen in yt self set apart from all the abuses and enormities aboue recited such as they glorie of abounding with such great learning excelleÌ„t giftes and rare graces of the spirit or answearable to that heauenly exercise of prophecie in Christes Church Of their education and learning euen from the grammer schole to the pulpit you haue alreadie hearde as also their Diuinity to be traditional wholly deriued from other mens writinges and books both for the vnderstanding diuiding and interpretation of al scriptures as also for all doctrines questions and doubtes that arise and not springing from the fountaine of Gods spirit in theÌ„selues according to the measure of knowledge faith and grace giuen them So that these dumbe blinde guides and watchmen doe but see with other mens eyes but speake with other mens mouthes and as one of their chief aucthors saith of them without these bookes they as are blinde as molles as mute as fishes not able of themselues to decide open and interprete almost anie scripture Or to discusse iudge or decide anie doubt or controversie with assurance And therfore when anie newe question vnwritten of before ariseth they are either al at a full poyncte not knowing what to saye to the matter Or ells wheÌ„ they speake so manie opinions and sentences as speakers Yea euen in the thinges they reade and teache there being so great diuersitie contrarietie amongst these Writers their aucthors there also ensueth great difference contrarietie in their doctrines which they publicklie deliuer One teaching one thing in one place an other the quite contrarie in an other And this not onlie in interpretation and vnderstanding of sondrie yea almost all places of scripture but euen in most waightie and as they call them fundamentall poynctes of doctrine As whether the Church of Rome be to be esteemed a true Churche or no The Sacraments there deliuered and the Ministrie there ordayned be â—o be held true sacraments and a true Ministrie or no. Also if the ordinances order and outward gouernment of Christes Church left in Christes Testament be perpetual of necessitie to be obserued c. And al this diuersitie coÌ„trarietie of iudgmeÌ„t publickly taught in their Church must be coloured and passed ouer with this sweete sentence of Mr. Giff. That they are but brotherly dissentioÌ„s they agree in al fundamentall doctrines A happie tourne it were that those fundamental doctrines were once agreed vpon and set downe that wee might then knowe which part of CHRISTES Testament is fundamentall and of necessitie and which is accidental and not necessarie but variable and at mans wil. In the meane while wee must stil belieue that CHRIST is not yea and naye of one minde in one place of an other ells where Neither that the spirite of God can rule in both places where such contrarie doctrines are taught and maintayned We also are taught that howsoeuer bretheren through ignorance maie doubt and differ in iudgment for a ceason yet are they no there vpon to teach such thinges as they are not assured of lest they publish and sowe errors Which who so doth be he man or Angel that teacheth any other thing or otherwise then Christ. and his Apostles haue taught and deliuered or causeth diuision dissention contrarie to their doctrine or commeth not to the wholesom wordes of our Lord Iesus Christ c wee are to hold them accursed to watch and auoide them Likewise the maner of their pulpit preaching nothing 〈◊〉 to the order of Christes Church where the Prophets I meane such as are knowen to haue the gift of interpretatioÌ„ of scriptures haue al of them libertie to speake what God reueileth vnto them besides that which hath bene deliuered so that they neither hinder disturbe or interrupte the publick ministerie of the Churche but vse their libertie opportunely holily to edification They haue libertie also yea their especial dutie it is to obserue and publickly to reproue anie false interpretation or false Doctrine deliuered publicklie in the Church by whom soeuer Yea this power hath the least member of the Church in due order and place if the Prophets and Elders should ouersee omit neglect or refuse The whole Church also euen euerie peculiar Christian Congregation hath power in yt self to censure not onlie anie doctrine deliuered but the person of anie member or Minister of the same congregation But here in these Babilonish Synagogues one Priest climbeth vp into their pulpits for orations and possesseth the place alone where he declameth deliuereth his studied tale to the howre-glasse which being runne out he must make an end for troubling his auditory and leaue no place or tyme of addition assent or dissent to anie other al the people hasting awaye In his pulpit after he hath read his text he may diuide teache or hadle yt leaue or take yt corrupt falsifie wrest or peruert yt at his pleasure In that his priuileged tubbe he may deliuer what doctrines he liste be they neuer so currupt false blasphemous None of his auditore whatsoeuer they be hath power to cal them into questioÌ„ cerrect or refute the same presently and publickly for that is by lawe forbidden But the Church is driueÌ„ to their Lord Ordinarie to coÌ„plaine and except or vntil he redresse they must hold vse him stil as their Minister In that priuileged tubbe he may inveâ—ghe accuse sclander deuounce against anie truth or person that witnesseth against their kingedome or against anie publicke
maketh no ciuile decrees yt medleth not with th'execution of ciuile gouernemeÌ„t Touching the power of the Church to make lawes decrees we haue in the first parte of this booke spokeÌ„ The Church is bounde to the lawes of God and may make or receiue none other lawes then God hath made Christ is the only Law-giuer Kinge of his Church Againe this decree of the Church to ordaine y â— the ministerie of the Gospell should be maintayned by tithes you see is directly coÌ„trarie to the wil yea to y e being of Christ in receiuing that lawe maintenance which Christ hath abolished together with the Leuitical ministrie And aswel might they reuiue the Leuitical ministrie or any other Iewish ceremonie with as great pretext and warrant as this except the Church of ENGLAND haue some speciall warrant from or together with her Mother of ROME to reuiue and erect whatsoeuer CHRIST hath abolished be yt neuer so contrarie vnto him yea and to abrogate whatsoeuer Christ hath instituted be it neuer so necessarie How bold the Church of England is in these thinges in their tithes offrings purification suspensioÌ„ their holy cimiteries and cells the shape of their Church with the porche batlementes iâ—les Folding doores lightes ministerial vessels ministerial garmeÌ„tes dayes feastes c As on the other side to abrogate Christes Ministrie and the ordinances of his newe Testament is aboue declared and in this appeareth For Christ hauing instituted an other mainetenance for his ministrie namely the free contribution and beneuolence of his Sainctes in these Congregations whervnto they belonge and administer The Church of England iudging this al to base for her Ministrie hath instituted or rather receiued of her mother of Rome Lordly yea Princely liuings Courtly iudicial fees Gleabes and tithes sett certaine stipeÌ„des She wil not haue the lowest of her Ministrie to liue thus beggerly to depend vpon the benevolence of the people as our Sauiour himself his Apostles and Ministers did which a certaine Doctor of hers in diâ—daine caled the almouse basket But she wil haue al her ministry sure of their maintenance before hand they shal neither depeÌ„d vpon God nor the Church But she giueth them their lines and portion in the lande amongst the people and also giueth them a lawe ouer the people wherbie they may exact their duetie if the fleese or fleshe be worth so much The Priest here thrusteth his flesh-hooke into euerie poore bodies kettle his â—ithe and sickâ—e into euerie field prying and prowling in euerie place corner skratching and gathering vp his tithes eueÌ„ to the chicken egge to the mynte and anise without regard to whom they beloÌ„ge whether to the faithful or prophane papist atheist witch or heretick to the poore or fatherlesse catching vp al with the angle they cetch it in their net gather it in their yarne and burne incense to their yarne because this their portion is faâ— and their meate plenteous deuowring widowes houses vnder colour of longe prayer Now how this tithing prowling extortion may be made the Christian Ministers maintenance I would faine learne Who as the Prophet saith should be fed with cleane prouander that is wynowed with the shoueâ— and with the fanne Who themselues ought to be examples of pietie equitie meekenes and not like greedy Wolues thus to make a praye of the sheepe Likewise how this tithe gathering and coÌ„tynual prowling maie be enioyned or made to accorde to a christian Ministers office Or howe it is possible for the true Minister of CHRIST diligently to attend his studie and office together with this his tith gathering let anie that knoweth the worke of the ministrie iudge Yea rather let the holy Ghost iudge that expresly forbiddeth the ministrie of the worde to be entangled with such busines of this life If it be here said these tithes may be gathered by an other yet this sheweth they cannot be gathered by the Minister And so stil this reason holdeth that therfore they are no fit maintenance for the ministrie The other reasons aboue recited proue the vnlawfulnes of them To the set stipendes also and gleabes I in like maner affirme them to be an other maintenance then that Christ hath instituted for his ministrie yea to take away that order to the great detriment and manifold inconveniences of the Church and therfore likewise vnlawfull Holding this proposition firme that where CHRIST hath instituted a maintenance for his Ministrie the Church may not devise or receiue anie newe or other lawes for the maintenance of their ministrie then CHRIST hath giuen CHRIST then hath ordayned that they that dresse the vineyard feed the flocke should eate of the fruict of that vineyarde and of the milke of that flocke to which they attend This mainetenance in other places is set downe to be the free contribution and benevolence of the Sainctes from tyme to tyme according to the present abilitie of the one and necessities of the other This the Lorde in wisedome hath thought most meete for his Church and ministerie vnto the woâ—ldes end As wherby to knit the heartes of them together in the band of loue in al mutual dueties to haue each other in minde to care prouide and labour each for other as they ought The Minister according to his duâ—ty to sâ—eke pasture for them to thresh theÌ„ out the corne out of the eares yea to grind prepare and diuide yet to the nourâ—shment comfort of them al. And they againe on their parte to labour to administer of their earthly goods to the necessities waÌ„tes of their Ministers guides Wherby y â— one is encouraged in their studies laboures diligeÌ„ce thus reaping the fruictes of the peoples faith and loue and are assured that they doe their dueties to the approbation and good liking of the flocke which when they shall faile and will not be drawen faithfully to doe then is not the flocke any longer burdened with or bound vnto such a Minister As one the other side if the people fal from the faith and refuse to walke orderly in the faith then are the Ministers no furder bounde or to contynue to administer to such a people But now whilest the Ministers mainetenance is made certaine by law or bargaine by stint rate or proportioÌ„ imposed vpoÌ„ the people how much and when each one shal paye how much the Minister shall haue yeerely It first depriueth God of the glorie due to him for his blessing vpon their labours and indeuours in restrayning the free contribution and willing beneuolence of the people by this lawe or bargaine making yt of necessity stinting and apportioning yt to this or that rate which the Lorde hath left at the libertie discretion and will of each one as God hath prospered and according to that present ability God administreth with whiche contribution and sacrifice howe wel God is pleased the Scripture euerie where
he in all this space could bring vs no defence for them Wee cannot see by his owne reason seing they haue neither the true matter nor the forme of CHRISTES gouernment howe their gouernment should be held and esteamed the true and holie gouernment of Christ And then must that sequel which he so feareth needes followe that yt is an antichristian gouernment yoke such as the true Church seruantes of Christ may not beare and wittinglie stand vnder To perticulate all the seuerall corruptions abuses enormities of the gouernment of these antichristian Bishops is not in mie skil or power not knowing in anie measure their Cannons customes orders priueledges proceedings Onlie this in general I may affirme that of such pompeous stagelike popish mixt Courtes handling both ciuile ecclesiastical causes iudiciallie I neuer read through al the book of God or to belonge to Christes Church Especiallie exercising such absolute power iurisdiction ouer al Churches causes and persons ecclesiastical yea vsurping assuming and executing the whole power offices and dueties of al Churches yea euen the proper prerogatiues priuiledges only belonging to Christ himself To make impose or abrogate lawes To giue or rather sel licences dispensations to haue more benefices then one to marrie to eate flesh at tymes of restrainte c To cal sommon and fetch by coÌ„strainte al causes persons of the Church before them There to determine decree to censure silence suspeÌ„d sequester depose incarcerate punish by mulct what Minister or meÌ„ber of the Church they lust of their owne absolute aucthoritie without any controlement reprose or redresse The Church hauing no power or libertie to reprooue or refuse no not so much as call into question anie thing they do or decree to rebuke or censure these inordinate lawlesse fellowes for anie thing they doe either publickely or priuatly The Church must receiue obey as most holie whatsoeuer they decree or impose with al reuerence as the oracles of God though they be neuer so contrarie to the worde of God The Church or any other member of the Church in these Courtes be not permitted so much as to propounde or pleade their owne cause But are by them coÌ„pelled to their romish litigious course procedinges To speake pleade by a feed Advocate or Proctor after their popish order and custome Where for bribes fees al causes be they neuer so fowle corrupt are handled pleaded and proceede that I say not succeede And without such bribes fees no cause be yt neuer so iust and y e partie neuer so poore or innoceÌ„t hath audience or help Here being so many officers catchpolles attendantes to be feed pleased To all these rauenous Birdes with fingers the suetors sommoned become a pray But especially the faithful such as speak against and will not of conscience and faith vnto God stoope downe vnto their antichristian power or obey their vngodly decrees These shalbe worse vsed then any trayterous Papists or facinorous persons whatsoeuer who shall all of them by their purse or freindes escape well enough find fauour when these poore soules shall neuer geat out of their handes without wrack either of bodie or soule either death or denying the faith These though there be no direct matter euidence witnesses or accusers against them yet shall themselues be inforced to a corporal oth as they call it vpon and by a booke to answeare directly and truly to such articles and poyncts as shalbe propownded vnto them If they denie or make conscience either of the maner or matter of this oth then instead of godly instruction or christian persuasion they are forthwith committed to prison yea for the most parte to close prison there to remaine shut vp from al ayre exercise friendes dueties callings c vntill they either yeild to take this idolatrous blasphemous and impious oth or dye vnder their handes No baile maineprise help benefite or redresse by lawe by the Queenes Royal writtes or Courtes allowed to any that are committed by the leaste of this hellish Anarchie Whose lawlesse and insolent dealinges oppressions iniuries violence may not be caled in question or examined by anie ciuile Magistrates or Courtes All which they patronize by her Ma ties high or especiall Commission vnto them Although her Ma tie suffreth her Roial Prerogatiue to be handled considered of in some of these ciuile Courtes yea graunteth to all her free borne subiectes the benefite free vse of her Highnes lawes euen in anie cases or causes betwixt her Highnes and them according to the great Charter in the Magna Charta whervnto her Ma tie is sworne which Charter also these lawlesse Prelates most presumptuouslie and tyrannously violate breake vnder colour of her Ma ties Commission thus setting her Ma ties Commission against her Ma ties Prerogatiue Courtes Royal against that great Charter of the land against all her Highnes lawes yea against al the lawes of God the TestameÌ„t Kingdome of Christ. But to say as it is their procedinges are both against ther coÌ„mission if they might be dulie examined conferred thervnto and against her Ma tâ—es meaning Whose milde preceable iust gouernmeÌ„t in al causes that procead from her self assure vs that She would neuer wittingly graunt such a commission as shoulde be so preiudicial to her owne Crowne Royal dignitie to the estate of the Church and of the whole common wealth as this wherby these Prelates beare themselues their vngodly procedings is That power graunted vnto her Ma tie by ParliameÌ„t to appoinct aucthorize whom she shal thinck meet to execute vnder her al maner iurisdictioÌ„s priuiledges and preemineÌ„ces concerning ecclesiastical causes to her belonging is as also al other her Princely power aucthoritie alwaies to be vnderstood in the Lord so far as shalbe found consonant to his word For neither is there giuen neither may or wil her Ma tie take or exercise any furder or other power then the Lord her God giueth her In whom Kinges reigne of whom their power is diriued and holden by whom yt is circumscribed and limited to whom they shal as anie other persons accompt If then these Prelates and their antichristian Hierarchie these romish Courtes and their popish procedinges in the same be not fownde to be of God to haue anie warrant in his word or to belong to the ministrie gouernment of Christes Church then can no commission or humane aucthoritie whatsoeuer make them lawfull impose or enioyne them vpon the Church Neither ought anie Christian to obey them at the CommandmeÌ„t of any mortal maÌ„ Men must alwaies be obeyed in the Lord. Vnto whom when or wherein they be fownd coÌ„trarie or opposite there must God rather then meÌ„ be obeyed His indignation that caÌ„ cast both body soule into hel fire is more to be feared theÌ„ theirs that can but touch the body only To obey Gods commaundements and to refrayne
Martyres will not approue the antichristian offices gouernment of these Prelates nor yet iustifie the publick worship ministrie confusion sacriledge of the Church of England Mvchlesse wil these two lame propositions of M r. G. his final argument beare vpp his forged conclusion where he concludeth the Brownistes hereticks c Because they condemne a Church as quite deuorced separate from Christ For such imperfections corruptions in Gods worship as are not fundamental nor destroy the substance For that wicked men come with the godly to the publicke exercises of religion For some wantes in calling ordayning Ministers And for some wantes in ecclesiastical discipline If M r. GIF had taken the wise mans councel he should not haue answered a matter before he vnderstood it much-lesse would he if he had bene ledd by the spirit of God haue blasphemed the truth or cōdemned the innocent without cause But as he began his booke without councel cōtinued it without grace and ended it without truth so hath he herebie but purchased to himself shame and brought vpon his owne head the iudgments due to an accuser a blasphemer a false witnesse and iudge What opinion the Brownistes hold of the Church of England their worship people ministrie gouernment we neither knowe nor regard neither is there cause whie we should be chardged or condemned for their errors faultes For which themselues and this Church of ENGLAND that receiueth and nourisheth all sectories hereticks wicked and abhominable persons whatsoeuer shall accompt For vs whom it pleaseth M r. G. to terme Brownistes and whome he endeuoreth to confute in this treatise we neuer condemned any true Church for anie fault whatsoeuer knowing that where true faith is there is repentance where true faith and repentance are there is remission of all sinnes Far be it from vs to condemne anie whom CHRIST iustifieth 1. And for the Church of ENGLAND we neither did or doe condemne yt as this accuser suggesteth for such imperfections and corruptions in their worship as be not fundamentall or destroy the substance but we condemned the publick worship of their Church of ENGLAND presently inioyned receiued and vsed as deuised by men popish superstitious idolatrous abhominable not such as God commandeth requireth or accepteth and therfore not such as anie faithfull christian may offer vp vnto God be compelled or consent vnto This wee shewed in the first PRINCIPALL TRANSGRESSION this we haue proued in the first part of this treatise 2. Secondly wee condemne not the Church of England as separate from CHRIST for that wicked mē come with the godly to the publick exercises of religion But rather as neuer rightly gathered to CHRIST for that al the prophane and wicked ar receiued and retayned as members of their Churche Wee gladlie acknowledge that CHRIST came a light into the world to offer saluation vnto all men to haue built his Church vpon an hil there to be lifted vp by the preaching of the word as a standard to al people and passengers there to haue made a feast to al natiōs and thither to inuite them Neither were we euer so enuious of the saluation of others or of the glorie of God as hauing founde mercie and being entred our selues to shut the doore or stop the fountaine of Gods grace against others yea God is witnesse with what heartie desire we long after them all that they euen our greatest persecutors might be partakers of the same saluatiō ioy comfort happines with vs And howe wee intermit not much-lesse exclude anie meanes thervnto that God putteth in our power though it were with the hazarde of our owne lyues to bring them of the water of the wel at Bethelem But now though we affirme that al the vnbelieuing prophane not onlie may but ought to resort to the publick exercises of religion in the Church as the most excellent meanes to call them to the faith yet do we not therfore belieue or affirme that the prophane or vnbelieuing may be receiued or admitted as mēbers of the Church before they haue made voluntarie publick profession of their owne faith and obedience Or being entered by such profession be permitted longer to stand or remayne of the Church then they contynue orderlie to walke in the same faith and obedience And therfore we blamed these parish assemblies of England as consisting of a confuse multitude of al sortes of prophane and wicked people in differentlie where they are al receiued nourished and retayned as mēbers of y e Church though they were neuer called gathered by the power of the worde entered receiued by the profession of their owne faith neither walke orderlie in the faith or in anie duties either publick or priuate And so are al guiltie of most high sacriledge prophanatiō of the holy things of God No such assemblie or communion of Sainctes as Christes faithful seruantes ought to repaire or ioyne vnto This wee shewed in the second PRINCIPAL TRANSGRESSION This we haue lardgly proued in the secōd part of this treatise 3. Thirdly we condemne not the Church of England for some wantes in calling and ordayning Ministers But for hauing maintayning and retayning a false and antichristian ministrie imposed vpon them with a false antichristian calling ordination euen the self same that the Pope vsed left in this Realme which false offices and ministrie cannot be ioyned vnto or exercised in the true Church of CHRIST This wee shewed in the thirde PRINCIPAL TRANSGRESSION this we proued in the third part of this treatise And therfore with an euil and corrupt conscience hath Mr. G. sought to hide this transgression vnder some vvantes in the calling and ordaining Ministers and thus boldlie and falselie thervpon to accuse vs. Wee knowe there may be faultes either of ignorance or negligence in the calling ordination c yet these not to disanul the action much-lesse the Couenant so longe as they are not obstinatlie held and persisted in But our assertion and controuersie here is not of a faultie ministrie caling ordination c but of a false ministrie caling ordination c which we haue proued theirs to be and that no such belongeth vnto may be imposed receiued or retayned in the Church of CHRIST 4. Fourthly in like maner wee reason not of some wantes in the gouernment and order of their Church but of a false and antichristian gouernment set ouer the Church Neither condemne we the Church of ENGLAND for some faultes in a true ecclesiasticall gouernment but for hauing and standing vnder a false and antichristian gouernment euen the self same Hierarchie Officers Courtes Cannons Customes Priuileges Proceedings that the Pope vsed and left This wee also haue shewed in the 4 TRANSGRESSION and haue nowe in this fourth parte and through this booke fullie proued their present ecclesiastical gouernment to be To which fower principall transgressions a willfull obstinacie an open reiecting resisting the truth al reprofe a violent and most hostile
continueth in this estate a true established visible church within y e outward Couenāt of God so far as we may ought to iudge by his worde thē doubtlesse for mie part I wil graunt yt a sounde Maior proposition And if he shal bring the church of Rome for instance in the Minor I must then yeild to his argumēt Because y◠church at Rome was sometimes rightly gathered established and within the couenant Yet euen then I suppose yt wil be harde for him to make the like assured proof that euer her daughter of England was rightly established into that christiā order within the couenant But I doubt rather and by her present estate iudge that she was among the childrē of her Mothers fornications and therfore without the Couenant To the second reason it will also hardly followe that because some faithful men haue bene called to some generall knowledge of God and of Christ in this estate and because they in their ignorance cotynued in the same estate that this should therfore iustifie the outward estate of the Church which the worde of God condemneth or prooue yt in this estate the true established Church of Christ when they haue nothing aright according to Christes ordinance as we haue prooued in this treatise whether I refer for a more ful answeare of these reasons hasting to the second poyncte Wherein I before shewed how God commandeth al his faithful seruantes of what estate or degree soeuer to flee out of Babilon the false Church and being escaped not to stand still to remember the Lord a far off to let Ierusalem come into their minde to goe vp to SION to seeke out and to repaire vnto the place where God hath put his name To seek the Church and the kingdome of CHRIST to take his yoke vpon them to assemble together in his name with his promise of direction and protection and with his authoritie to establish his offices and ordinances amongst them giuen by him to the ministrie and gouernmēt of his Church vnto the worldes end there to leade their liues together in all mutuall duties in his holie order faith and feare Now as we shewed all perticular and priuate men whosoeuer to be called out of the false Church from confusion and out of the world from dispersion vnto the true Church vnto order So likewise shewed we that all these faithfull persons whosoeuer were as yet but priuate men at their first comming out of the false Church and gathering together none of them being as yet called to anie ecclesiasticall office or function in the Church yt not being as yet established into order Wherevpon we concluded and still of necessitie enforce That seing God calleth all his seruantes out of confusion and will not haue them liue in dissipation or disorder but only in this order which he hath prescribed in his worde And hath giuen his Church aucthoritie and commandement to erect retaine and obserue this order vnto the worldes end And seeing in this estate the Church now consisteth but of priuate men That therfore the faithfull being as yet but priuate men ought by the commandement of God to assemble ioyne themselues together in the name faith of Christ and in all mutual dueties orderly to proceede according to the rules of the worde to a holy choice vse of such offices ordinances as Christ hath ordayned to the seruice gouernment of his Church And sure were not Mr. G. as forgeatful as he is ignorāt of the scriptures he could not but haue seene by the verie phrase the first proposition confirmed by many scriptures The secōd by many prophecies of this general defection and if not verified in these present tymes yet he cannot denie but some former not long sithence Therefore whilest he fighteth with the conclusiō he but spurneth against the prickes bewraieth the folly of his owne heart and no waye auoydeth or defendeth the daunger therebie His best answeare to this reason or rather manie reasons summed vp is as he thinketh to tourne it away by two questions and by manifold contumelies against our poore persons or to say as yt is by inaudible blasphemies against the Church of God likening the assemblie of the faithful gathered in the name and ioyned together in the faith of Christ proceding to th'establishing and exercise of Christes or dinances to the rebellious company of Corath Dathan Abyram to a rowte of mutynous prentices assembled without leaue of their Prince to chuse a Lorde Maior c. His first question is That if all were priuate at the first comming out of the false Church who they were that caled them together Or whether their cōming together doth make them otherwise then priuate We answeare that for anie thing we can see or may iudge by the word they were but priuate men that first caled them out of the false Church and that caused them to assemble together howsoeuer peraduenture indued with more excellent giftes and more rare graces then other Furder that being thus assembled they ceased not to be priuate men vntil they were lawfully caled vnto some true ecclesiastical office in and by the Church Yet al this notwithstanding the Church in this estate nowe consisting onlie of priuate men ought to procede to a right choice of Ministers c according to the commandement of God His next stombling-block or question is VVho should ordaine these Pastors Elders And whether we euer read of any ordained but by Apostles Euangelistes Pastors Teachers and Gouernours And vvhether that power vvas not at the first deriued from th'extraordinarie Ministers to the Ordinarie To this we haue aboue answered where wee entreated of the ordination of the Ministers of England and here againe doe answere That the Church had alwaies the power to chuse and ordaine their owne Ministers wherevnto yt ought to vse the most fit instruments whether these Pastors Teachers Elders if such be to be had or ells where they be not to be had to vse the fittest meanes and instrumentes that God exhibiteth For this power of ordination is not as Mr. G. and the vnruly cleargie of these dayes suppose deriued from the Apostles Euangelistes vnto the permanent ministrie of Pastors and Elders neither belongeth yt by anie peculiar right to their offices and persons segregate from the Church But yt is giuen by Christ and properlie belongeth vnto the Church wherevnto their Ministrie and persons also belonge and are by the Church to be vsed vnto this worck as occasion is administred And thus if a vaile were not laid ouer Mr. G. his heart at the reading of the scriptures he might finde that those cheife builders the Apostles Euāgelistes themselues vsed this power not to take yt from the Church but therein to assist the Church As we reade Act. 13. Where the Church being assembled vnto fasting prayer and other holy exercises yt is there said also that they layde handes vpon the Apostles and sent them
two edged sworde of his mouth to cut downe all sinne The mightie spirituall weapons of his worde to bring in captiuitie euerie thought to the obedience of CHRIST to to the ouerthrowing of all munitious reasonings and sublimitie lifted vp against the knowledge of God and to haue in a readines to reuendge all disobedience To cast sinne into the Epha and the talent of Gods iudgment vpon yt and to remoue yt out of the Church with all power and celeritie with the vvinges of a Storke and the wynde vnder their vvinges and to lift vp the Epha betwixt the heauen and the earth in the eyes of all men CHRIST hath giuen this aucthoritie to his seruantes whom he hath left in his house and hath commanded them all therfore to watche together To obserue and avoide them that cause anie diuisions or offenses contrarie to the doctrine that they haue learned To contende for the maintenance of the whole faith Not to intermit or to be withdrawen from anie part of the same by anie man or Angell for persecution or anie thing that man can doe vnto them euerie where vvarning instructing and exhorting his seruantes not to feare persecution for righteousnes sake to take vp and beare his crosse daylie c Likewise for the neglect of those thinges God reproueth and stirreth vp the Churches To repent and to doe the first workes or ells he wil come against them speedily and remoue their candlestick To repent or ells he wil come against them speedily and fight against them with the sworde of his mouth Commending those Churches that kept that they had the worde of his patience in persecution promising them the Crowne of life if they remaine faithfull vnto the death to make them that ouercome pillers in the Temple of God c. M r. Giffard he is contented that vnder heathen or popish Princes the Church now may reforme or proceed in the practize of the whole will of God but at no hand where the Prince posesseth the faith in the fundamental poinctes though otherwise he erre and mis-leade the whole Churche in some matters of doctrine or touching the rules of discipline In these abuses and corruptions euerie priuate man is to keepe a good conscience but none to take publick aucthoritie to reforme Because these Kinges are principal members of the Church c. What cleare conscience any priuate man that yeildeth to these publick seene errors or transgressions Or the whole Church whilest yt wittinglie doth or suffreth these thinges to be donne can keepe we haue aboue shewed in the SECOND PRINCIPAL TRANSGRESSION How expreslie contrarie this leauened traditionall proposition of M r. G. is to all these Scriptures and doctrines aboue recited is so euident to all men as yt needeth no furder or lardger refutation If God haue committed his whole worde vnto his Church as the foundation of their faith and of euery action they doe commanding them to stand to the death for the maintenance of the whole truth and the holy practize of the same and to cast out in his name and power all that publicklie and obstinatlie hold anie opinion or that so commit anie transgression contrary to his worde If God for the neglect hereof haue menaced to come in iudgment and exhorteth the Churches vpon the first discouerie hereof to speedie repentance Howe can M r. G. persuade the Churche to contynue wittingly in open errors publick transgression or in this estate promise them peace The holie Ghost hath not set downe this as a note of a true Prophet Neither hath God promised anie peace to thē that wittingly contynue in any error or transgression vntil they repent Doth not one deade flie putrifie and cause to stincke the whole oyntment of the Apothecary A litle leauen make sower the whole lumpe Wee would knowe of him therfore whether that diuelish distinction of fundamental errors and transgressions and such errors and transgressions as he holdeth not fundamentall wherebie he turneth away the practize of what part of Gods worde he lusteth and iustifieth or at the least tollerateth what open errors publick transgressions of Gods worde he lusteth will excuse him or anie that wittinglie breake the least of Gods commandements And whether the aucthoritie or christianitie of anie Prince wil in that daye excuse before the Lorde anie man that hath at the Princes commandment committed much more contynued to committ anie transgression without vnfaigned repentance But if the least error be contrarie to true faith the least transgression sinne and no knowen sinne or error to be committed or continued in howe can he persuade the Churche to commit or to contynue in anie error or transgression so highly to tempt and prouoke the Lorde And now to the poynct we would know of him whether anie Prince much-lesse a christian Prince may abrogate the commandement of God or take away that power and aucthoritie that God hath giuen to the Church vnto the worldes end If not but that the commandements of God remaine alwaies the same and the Churche hath the same power vnder a christian magistrate that vnder a heathen why then yt ought not to proceede to the obedience and practize of Gods worde whether in correcting and redressing faultes or in going forewarde in the wayes of God as they are reueiled vnto them as well and freelie vnder a Christian Prince as vnder an heathen Is it because a Christian Princd is the principall and greatest member of the Church why by so much the rather ought and the better may the Church doe it hauing now such a singular help and rare accomplement of so pretious a member Euerie true member is giuen for the help and comfort and not for the hindrance and hurt of the body Wee may then much better conclude that the Church vnder a christian Prince may procede with all freedome in the sincere practize of CHRISTES Gospel because he is a member of CHRIST of the Church then vnder an infidel Prince that is an enimie to CRHIST and to the Church ANother reason he bringeth whie the Churche vnder a christian Prince may not reforme without his licence or vntill hee will because it is the office of a christian Prince to reforme the Church and therfore the Church in taking such a publicke worke vpon them shoulde but vsurpe and encroch vpon his office Because wee are so apt to mis-vnderstand one an other and to take words in too lardge or straight a sense it were good wee set downe what is meant by this reformation here spoken of before we proceede Wee meane then by reformation to reduce all thinges and actions to the true antient and primatiue paterne of Gods worde This we graun to be the office and duetie of the Prince to doe aswel in the Church as in the common Wealth The Princes eye may suffer no transgression of Gods lawe he is to ouersee and see euerie one to doe their dueties in the office
and caling God hath placed them Yet is this no preiudize to the Christian libertie and power of the Church no impediment to anie member therof but rather a singular preseruation of all dueties and an excellent instigation of them all to doe the wil of God in their calings For in all this here is no power giuen the Prince to restraine anie iore of the libertie and power of the Church or to with-hold anie one person from doing the whole will of God in their caling Much-lesse is here anie power giue the Prince to drawe or compel the Church or any member therof to the least transgression or error yea when the Prince shall in anie thing be founde contrarie to God God is then to be obeyed rather then man And this is no disobedience to the Princes soueraigne and supreame power ouer al persons and causes ecclesiastical or ciuile is no preiudize or impediment to the Church or to anie member therof from doing the whole will of God in their calings So in like maner are not the proceedings of the Church according to CHRISTES Testament any derogation from or enchrochment of the royal power and prerogatiue of Princes as this false Prophet out of the mouth of Sathau woulde perswade but rather a singular preservation and most rare illustratiō therof Whose reignes are neuer so glorious as when or glorious but when God is worshipped and obeyed according to his reueiled worde and those most chearished and fauored that are most faithful therin In the Church of CHRIST are al duties most faithfullie taught and no knowen transgression of anie knowen duetie suffred either to God or man Howe then can Sathan himself say that the proceedings of the Church or rather or Christ in his Church are contrarie to or derogate from the royall power of Princes They cannot be of God that thus set at variance these blessed powers which God hath so conioyned and contempered for the mutual help each of other and the seruice of his glorie No it is the false Church and this antichristian hierarchie that are preiudicial vnto enchroch vpon and vsurp the Royall aucthoritie power iurisdiction titles honors prerogatiues lads palaces pompe c of Princes The true Church both knoweth howe to obey the Lorde and their Prince in the Lorde They vsurpe not the Princes office when they reforme anie publick fault in the worship administration gouernment ecclesiastical c but execute their owne office For this is not the Princes office to doe in person but to commande the Church to doe it by such instrumentes as God hath ther vnto ordayned This commandment of the Prince doth neither giue the Church more power or make the action more lawful Neither doth the prohibition of anie Prince take away this power of the Church that God hath giuen or make the action that God hath commanded more vnlawful How then doth the Church more sinne in doing these duties in reformation and correctiō of publick faultes and proceeding in the practize of Gods will which God hath commanded to be donne by his Church then anie priuate man sinneth when he correcteth anie fault in himself or in his family or beginneth to doe anie duetie which he before neglected without his Princes lycence Seing the Princes eye power and office extendeth aswell to ciuile as to ecclesiastical dueties aswell to priuate as to publick reformation yea the Princes licence in al Christian consideration extendeth to al godly duties honest actions euen to as many things either to be donne or to be left vndōne as the cōmandements of God extend vnto For he is the Minister of God for y e praise of them that do wel and for the punishment of them that doe euill when the Prince resisteth or suffreth not the worde of God to haue free passage he sinneth doth not his duety But this cā be no excuse for vs to cease to doe the wil of God or to intermit our duetie If he drawe the sword and smite vs for wel doing that but augmenteth his sinne and the blessing of God resteth vpon vs that suffer for righteousnes sake wee may not for feare of persecution or for the indignation of Princes leaue the commandements of God vndonne For that were with this false Prophet to mancipate the lawe of God to the wil of Princes and vtterly to abolish the crosse of Christ out of the world For Princes neuer punish mē for obeying but for breaking their hestes Beastly then hellish is the speach of this mā That saith the Church refuseth the peace of their Prince and prouoketh him to strike when they either reforme such faultes as are in the Church or proceed to doe such things as God hath commanded them though the Prince forbid and wil not giue licence But especiallie where the blasphemer is not afraid to say that the Church when it procedeth to the establishing and practize of Christes ordinances erecteth a state gouernment of their owne Doe they erect anie thing of themselues or that CHRIST himself hath not erected Is not this to accuse CHRIST of treason because he saith he is a Kinge And his seruants of sedition because they set vp his kingdome without the licence and against the will of Princes though it cost them their liues for the same Is not this man a faithful seruant of CHRIST a faithfull subiect to his Prince that so reprocheth CHRISTS heauenlie kingdom reiecteth his ordinances and commandments to make them depend vpon the wil of Princes that so seduceth his Prince and would drawe her into battell against God almighty and his Church Yea if to set vp Christes kingdome in a christiā estate without the leaue or licence of the Prince or state be rebellion and disobedience a derogation from their sacred power an intrusion into their high office how then will he excuse our Sauiour CHRIST himself who being borne in the flesh but in th' estate of a subiect and a priuate man hee neither being Minister of the Temple nor magistrate in the commō Wealth and that in a godly state vnder faithful magistrates as himself acknowledgeth did notwithstāding by al meanes in deuour to set vp his kingdome preached baptized caled al men vnto him although the whole state and gouernours earnestly sorbad and resisted him Those gouernours were to be obeyed and he himself was obedient in al things as became a true subiect If it be answered that he did it by the especial commission and commandment of God Wee readilie graunt that a sufficient warrant vnto him before God and men as also vnto all others that haue the commandement of the same God for that they doe But what is this to our question Whether the Church or such as haue aucthoritie from God ought to be stayed from doing the commandment of God by the inhibition of a christian Prince or state Wee graunte it high sinne and intollerable presumption for anie that haue not aucthoritie of God to enterprise to doe anie thing
in the Church whether with or without their Princes licence But if yt be vnlawful for the Church or such as haue aucthoritie of God without the licence of their christian Prince or gouernours Then verilie our Sauiour his Disciples offended herein who stayed not to doe the will of his heauenlie Father for the threates laying wayte of the Rulers Furder if it be vnlawfull derogatorie to a Christian Princes office aucthoritie for anie to doe Gods wil in their callings and for the Church to proceede in the practize of CHRISTES Testament though against his wil Then is it also vnlawfull vnder a heathen Prince For the christian and heathen Princes haue one and the same aucthoritie office duetie to see all thinges both in the Church and in the commune Wealth donne according to the wil of God There is the same reuerence and obedience though I say not the same bowells of loue due to the heathen that is due to the christian Prince in regarde of their office The heathen Prince shall answere aswell as the christian for the neglect of their duetie for the abuse of their power and place And thus also if M r. G. doctrines be sownd the Apostles likewise sinned against the aucthoritie of Princes in erecting CHRISTS kingdome and the Churches in proceeding to receiue the same and to doe the wil of God without their Princes licence and notwitstanding their prohibition Seing that the vnbeleeuing Princes haue the same place office and aucthoritie and ought to haue the same obediene in respect thereof that christian Princes haue or ought haue And sure most diuelish and detestable are these two published and generallie receiued opinions of these contrarie factions of our English Cleargie men The one giuing out that the forme of ecclesiasticall gouernment prescribed in CHRISTS Testament practized by the Apostles and primatiue Churches in the tymes of persecution is not nowe necessarie or tollerable vnder a Christian Prince The other giuing out that those ordinances and that gouernment which they acknowledge CHRIST to haue instituted and prescribed to his Church vnto the worldes end may not nowe vnder a christian Prince be put in practize by the Church if he forbid the same as they might ought and were vnder heathen Princes by the faithful in all ages With the one of these blasphemous positions the Prelates defend their outragious gouernment and all their antichristian proceedings with the other the tyme-seruers these counterfeite Reformistes colour and defend their perfidie not witnessing vnto and practizing the Gospell of Christ and their seruile subiection to the gouernment of Antichrist By which positions both sides most impiously abrogate the heauenlie gouernment and ordinances of Christ in his Church and intollerably seduce and abuse that most blessed and comfortable ordinance of the christian Magistracie Both of them hereby shut vp the kingdome of heauen against all men neither entring themselues nor suffring such as would but holding the whole land vnder the enormous gouernment of Antichrist in the wrath of God whose iudgment therfore sleepeth not YEt remayneth an other dangerous error which Mr. G. hath pickeâ— out of a certaine answere made by me HENRIE BARROVVE to three greate Bishops of this land where being demaunded whether the Queene may make lawes for the Church which are not contrarie to the worde of God I seeing wherat they aymed vzt to maintayne al these popish reliques deuises tromperies c wherwith their worship Church is pestered answered as I remember to this effect That no Prince neither al the meÌ„ of the world not the Church yt self could make any lawes for the Church other then CHRIST hath left in his worde But I thought it the dutie of euerie Prince especially of euerie christian Prince to enquire out renewe the lawes of God and to stir vp all their subiects vnto more diligent careful keeping of the same This answere M r. G. after his accustomed maner pronownceth Anabaptisticall deâ—ijng and cutting off a great part of the power God hath giuen vnto Princes and a great part of Discipline Proof of these chardges he maketh none except we must take these two assertions in way of proofe vntill he bring better The first is that CHRIST hath giuen general lawes or rules for matters of circumstance that be indifferent variable in the perticulars and so to be altered and abolished as the peace and edification of the Church shall require And therfore that Princes with the Church are to ordaine to establish such orders by those generall rules as may afterward for iust cause be altered M r. G. his antecedent here is so general extendent his conclusion so doubtful and indefinite taking such roome to himself in both to escape euade as except he drawe nearer and in his next booke take the paynes to set downe what he meaneth in his proposition by general lawes rules and by matters of circumstance And in his conclusion what kinde of orders those such orders are the Prince should ordeine establish he shalbe so far from distressing or convincing me as I shall neuer perceiue where he is or where about he goeth This when he shal doe then I shall knowe what to answere him In the meane tyme I confesse manie thinges of circumstance as the tyme place of assembling what scriptures to reade or to interprete how longe to continue in prayer or prophecie c to be left in libertie at the discretion of the Church to be wisely vsed according to their present occasions to edification order decencie Of these sondrie such like the Lord in wisedome sawe it not good to set downe positiue or permanent lawes for all Churches and tymes because the present estate and diuers occasions of all Churches yea of anie one Church are so diuers variable that prescript definitiue lawes could not be set of such things in perticular for the space of one moneth without manifold incoÌ„veniences great preiudize to the Church Of such things then as the Lord for these wise endes waighty causes hath left in the libertie discreation of the Church to be vsed and ordered according to the present estate and occations therof c may man make no prescript positiue lawes in perticular to enioyne therby this forme this tyme c vpon all or vpon anie one Church without restrayning that which God hath left at libertie yea without coÌ„trolling contrarijng the wisdome of God which no doubt is most excellently perfect euen in the least thinges and without manie other grieuous inconveniences intollerable preiudize to the Church of God Much better therfore should the Prince prouide for the Church to see them duly to obserue the lawes that God hath giueÌ„ and to vse their libertie aright Or where they transgresse in either of these to reprooue or to correct accordingly then to make and enioyne new lawes of his owne deuising so contrarie to the libertie yea euen to that order
the law yet his office still retained but we hold that the Minister ought to repent his sinne before he administer and the Church to admonish him of his knowen sinne before they suffer him to administer and not coÌ„municat with him if he be obstinat If the Church neglect their dutie he and they transgresse yet do we not say that it is no Sacrament that he deliuereth or that his ministerie is disanulled But we must put Mr. Giffard in minde how far he is gone from our cause in this comparison We neuer disalowed their SacrameÌ„ts as being administred by a lawful Minister in a lawful office yet the man a sinner But of such counterfeites as haue neither lawfull office entrance c but stand enchanters in Antichristes kingdome so that these are not the personal sinnes of a Minister in the Church wherin Mr. Giff. wickednes appeareth to make the questioÌ„ of the mans person or his sinne when it is the ministery office entrance administation al which wee hold to be Antichristian and to haue nothing to do with the seales of Gods Couenant in this estate not here to speake of the altering of the institution in the maner of administring yt vvhich the Donatistes neuer either had cause or made question of as it seemeth And whether anie promise is made to the elementes abused in the false yea whether to the elementes or to the keeping of the lawes and ordinances in the true Church let Mr. Giffard make answere Further when we affirme the Sacramentes of the false Church to be no true seales of the Couenant because they are Idolatours and Idolatrous the Lordes ordinances prophaned and lawes wholly violated wee do not therby conclude it to bee no Baptisme concerning the outwarde washing for wee can put difference betwene a false and none a false Sacrament or counterfeit signe and none for the false Church is saide to haue her peace offringes And although wee holde them highly to tempt God to their owne condemnation if they repent not that wittingly prophane or of wilfull ignorance transgresse those high ordinances as in the false Church to be superstitious of the element where the lawe and Couenant is broken yet do wee not therevpon affirme wee neede anie reiterating of the outward signe as the Donatistes but hold this false signe nowe a true signe sufficient to vs concerning the outward washing Circumcision in the Apostasie of Israel which was without promise to the receiuers in that estate and nothing but sinne in yt yet stood for a sufficient outward cutting wheÌ„ anie of them returned to the Church and ate of the Passouer wherof it was not lawfull for any vncircumcised to eate how the signe might haue bene reiterated if need had so required we may see by that of y e Apostle 1 Cor. 7. for gathering againe their circumcisioÌ„ if it might be gathered againe then secondly cut Where Mr. Giffard then in stead of performing his comparison saith that the Donatistes in rebaptising did better of both because he that is not baptised ought to be baptised he bewrayeth his ignorance that cannot put difference betwene a false Sacrament and none a false signe and none The grossnes also he supposeth to haue bene in vs is found in himself that lest he should make the false and counterfeit washing in the false church to be none runneth to iustifie the Church ministerie sacramentes c at ROME and so must conclude himself of necessitie a Schismaticke or a popish Priest which he will And where he demandeth whether he that knoweth he was neuer baptised can be saued if he seek not to be baptised when he may haue yt We demande againe how euer true baptisme should be restored if the false signe of baptisme which was then without promise in the false Church should not now be sufficient concerning the outward signe To the Government IN the principle of principles that I say not the verie summe of all causes of our separation from these assemblies namely the gouernment which Mr. GIFFARD termeth discipline he can not finde any coÌ„similitude betwene the Donatistes and vs for the confesseth he hath not read that they did take anie exception against it in that tyme. Take your word discipline for al the meanes that CHRIST hath apointed by his lawes ministerie censures to keepe guyde gouerne his Church ioyntly and seuerally to be instructed in their duties and see what a dilemma you are come vnto this being graÌ„ted that herein ther is no agreement seeing the chief cause of our controuersie with you is for the rable of this Antichristian and pseâ—dohierarchie Courtes c which haue no place in the Church of God where CHRISTS officers offices lawes censures ought to gouerne and guyde his Church But here according to your accustomed maner you goe about to say there were faultes to be found in their gouernment then yea as well as in their worship c which you affirmed to be as corrupt as yours is now wherein if ante regard were to be had of your words you would not only make those Bishopps in as euill state as these that Church as yours now but haue cast into the fire al the platformes that your learned Reformistes haue pleaded for from that falsly so called Primatiue Church Well I haue told you the question is not whether they had the true gouernment or no whether in that gouernment there were corruptions defaultes or negligences but whether the Donatistes separated therfore or no they had the same offices officers lawes censures that the other so that you speak not only false in saying they might haue had as iust cause in this respect of separation as we but also bring the Argument to confound your self with your whole Church wherin you stand a Priest Thus you are separated from the Church of ROME but retaine still the same hierarchie worship gouernment that they vsed and haue as the Do. of the Churches from which they separated therfore you in this as in the rest of your Argumentes conclude your selues Donatistes Heretickes and Schismatickes from the Church of ROME But Mr. GIFFARD will denie that the Donatistes had as great cause to separate from those Churches froÌ„ which they separated as those English Priestes from their Graundfather the Pope for it was not so corrupted The same we answere to you for your gouernment how then shall we end this matter I take it thus that the Priestes of England despise the Popes person and yet keepe the same orders lawes officers offices that he erected So the Donatistes kept stil the orders of gouernment that the Churches they separated from Now if we can cleare our selues that we retaine not the same gouernment amongst vs that the Church doth we separat from which I thinke cannot be denyed then Mr. GIF hath in a chief principle put himself and this whole laud into the number of Donatistes The Argument is now this The Church of England separateth from the Church of
innovating of his Testament examine which you shall soone perceiue if you looke but what CHRISTS perpetual ordinances offices officers and lawes for the guyding ordering and gouerning of his Church be prescribing euerie one their place dutie limites ioyntly seuerally and not finde your ministerie registered there but a strange Leitourgie and worship borrowed from the Pope which came out of the bottomlesse pit confesse your sacriledge in suppressing CHRISTS whole ministerie and ordinances and erecting an other for the perpetuitie of his euen to euerie naile and pyâ— The holy Ghost sheweth that only to be his ministerie till we be all a perfect body in him and his whole ministerie and ordinances a kingdome that cannot be shaken Hebr. 12. Ephes. 4. a commandement to be kept vndefiled till the apearing of IESVS CHRIST his Scepter an euerlasting Scepter the Sonne as faithfull in his house as MOSES a seruant in the Tabernacle who made all things according to the paterne So that it is to be woÌ„dred Mr. GIFFARD should think anie part of Christs gouernment should not be perpetuall that was giuen by his Apostles the master buylders and layers of the foundation wherby all actions should be tried to y e worlds end May not Mr. Giff. as wel cal into question the perperuitie of the Testament as the lawes rules for the gouernment of his Church Now if your whole false Hierarchie Offices Officers Lawes Worship be plainly other theÌ„ CHRISTS as in our other writings are proued and shame will inhibit you to denye how can you be so drunke with the cup of the Whores fornication to think you haue no constitutions lawes or traditions which are a part of worship and against such rules of CHRISTS gouernment as the Apostles haue prescribed for the ordring of his howse and the same ordeyned for all Churches til we become all a perfect bodye in him But if Mr. GIFF. wil shew himself so voide of al conscience and truth to say al their traditionall worship and Antichristian Offices and ordinances be neither part of their woship nor constitutions disanulling the ordinances of Christ yet wil be confesse I doubt not this kinde of worship and gouernment to be imposed as matters to binde the conscience being all the â—eruice of God they haue seeing hee woulde also haue all that obserue them not to be censured and excommunicat for this merchandize yt were a sore matter a man should be cut off from Christ and his Church gyuen ouer to Satan and the iâ—dgment ratified in heauen against soule and bodye for a matter that byndes not the conscience As though the soule bodye howsoeuer some things perteine to the one or is done by the one as proper worke thereof were not both to be counted wheÌ„ the conscience shalbe opened to answere for all done in both or by eyther of both even whatsoeuer wee haue done in soule and bodye and Calvine would but diuide the soule and the bodye in Ciuile causes But Mr. Giffard would goe a note further namely that in the seruice of God in such causes as the transgression deserue excommunication to be no matter bynding the conscience But it may be Mr. Giff. doth suppose that except the constitutions ecclesiasticall be such as righteousnes be commanded to be fought in the doing them and forgiuenes of sinnes and merit by them all is wel Then besides the other abuses granted he must be demanded whither those traditions of the Fathers which our Sauiour Christ and his Disciples refused to obserue were imposed as meritorious whervnto wee answere No For in the superstitious washings of cuppes of beddes with al such trincketts wee see to be no such matter Marke 7. and Christs words in saying they layde the commaÌ„demeÌ„ts of God aside to set vp their owne traditions doth shew wherin the sinne was namelie to do and obserue such things of vaine glorie superstition or custome as God had not inioyned them and to leaue vndone the lawes and commandements of God which sinne is your transgression at this day Reade therfore the 7. of Marke 15. of Mathew more diligently Further those superstitious traditions Gal. 4. Colos. 2. the obseruing wherof were the denyall of Christ were neither held meritorious nor iustificatioÌ„ sought by them manie of them being Iewish ceremonies sometimes as rudiments commanded of God now abolished and no further burden to be layde in such outward thinges no We reade not that the law of God yt self was eyther commanded or so obserued as to seeke righteousnes by yt Now then to the matter Mr. Giff. thinketh CHRIST and his Apostles did well in refusing to obey the traditions of the Fathers at the Pharisies commandement and so must confesse it lawful and a dutie of vs to refuse to obserue your Iewish cerimonies and Romish superstitious traditions which are so manie as euen your whole Leitourgie and worship conteine nothing els Gods lawes and ordinances not only left vndone but al that pleade for them and seeke to walke in them persecuted with deadly hatred And how Mr. Giff. will proue that there is no adding or diminishing to or from the word of God by imposing and creating more lawes then God hath made in his vvorship and gouernment of his Church but such as bee made part of the vvorship or bynde conscience or bee meritorious or against such rules of his gouernment as bee perpetuall though I take all your orders lawes vvorship in this compasse yet howe you can poue this I know not for looke againe vpon the scriptures Pro. 30. 5. 6. Deâ—â— 4. 2. 12. 32. and. Gal. 3. 15. Reuel 22. 18. 19. and you shal finde that to add superordeine innovate or diminish or take anie thing from the lawes of God already prescribed for his vvorship were to abrogate his lawe to laye further burdens then hee hath layde to make his lawe vnperfect and set our selues in his seate yea vvhatsoeuer wee put to vvhich hee hath not commanded or whatsoeuer wee inhibit that hee hath commanded is here forbidden For this saith the Lorde Ye shall put nothing vnto the vvord vvhich I command you neither shall you take ought therefrom that you may keepe the preceptes of the Lorde your God vvhich I commande you Deut. 4. 2. And that this was as well in the outwarde ordinances of the Temple as in the iudgments is plaine in the first verse Againe in the 12. Chap. 32. VVhatsoeuer I command you take heede you do yt Thou shalt put nothing therto nor take anie thing therfrom and in the Prouerbs Euerie vvord of God is pure put nothing vnâ—o his vvordes lest hee reproue thee and thow bee found a lyer Now the scripture speaking so absolutely and generaly against al addition or detraction to or from his ordinances Mr. Giff. ouershooteth himself of his bare word to contradict and limit so expresse commandementes for these scriptures saith hee are against adding of humane preceptes and lawes to bee kept as partes of Gods
multitudes without exception anie one person are with them receiued into and reteined in the bozome of the Church 3 FOR that they haue a false Antichristian Ministerie imposed vpon them reteined with them and maintained by them 4 FOR that these Churches are ruled by and remaine in subiection vnto an Antichristian and vngodly gouernment cleane contrarie to the institutioÌ„ of our Sauiour CHRIST VVhen these things stand thus let him that readeth consider THE first Article is that which all Christians doo seek in dead but the kingdome of CHRIST or the kingdome of God as CHRIST saith is within men Yt consisteth in righteousnes peace ioye in the holy Ghost For the preseruation of this CHRIST hath ordeined a Church gouernmeÌ„t They sinne against God which do not couet and according to their calling labour to haue so great a help But to transport the name of Christs kingdome which is spirituall which is in the heart vnto this which is but a part and as though the kingdome of God could not be in anie vnlesse they haue this so they do not wilfully despise yt I say is false and the contrarie to be proued by the Scriptures OVR Article being by you confessed to be the bounden dutie of al true Christians we see not with what equitie you can in this maner cauil at our wordes or with what conscience you can misconstrue and constreine them as you doo seeking therby to retract by sleight what you cannot gainesay in truth And taking occasion to contend about wordes Namely the kingdome of CHRIST You make yt only inward and vse CHRIST as one of the Phisitians planitarie signes assigning to him in hipoctisie your heart soule to rule whilst in y e meane time you yeild your bodies and whole assemblies to the obedience and rule of Antichrist making no coÌ„science to obey his lawes openly and to transgresse Christs thinking belyke Christs kingdome so inward and spirituall as that he requireth no bodily or outward obedience or because yt consisteth of righteousnes and peace and ioye of the holy Ghost that ther may be peace without righteousnes or ioye without peace or inward righteousnes where is such outward disobedience and wilfull transgression But al this is couered and cured at once if so be you couet labour in your calling to haue CHRISTS outward gouernment c. To discusse here how far euerie Christians dutie calling extendeth herein vvere to dismisse all your answers at once and to pluck away the mantle of shame wherwith you couer your nakednes your negligence and all your abhominations In this place therfore we will only ask you these 2 questions First whither anie which haue their calling of Antichrist or be his marked Ministers or waged seruants can truly and vprightly couet labour for the sincere gouernment of CHRIST which is his whipp wherwith he â—kourgeth out all thieues intruders and idle-bellies out of his house The next question is Whither to remaine wittingly and seruilely in the bondage and yoake of Antichrist 29 yeares be to seek labour for the gouernment of Christ faithfully in your callings or to vphold and vndershore the kingdome of Antichrist rather But to transport the name of Christs kingdome which is chiefly spirituall and in the heart vnto that which is but a part c. How diuerslie the kingdome of God is read in the Scriptures we will not contend with you although it were not hard to shew either your ignorance or forgetfulnes herein Only this we say our words can carie no such construction muchlesse such an erronious opinion as you abounding in your owne sense haue not only collect but confuted In the first our words being That we seeke the kingdome of Christ Iesus our Lord cannot be thus restreined to Christs outward orders and gouernment in his Church especially if you had pondered that which followed where in the â— Article after your diuision we haue expressed this point in perticular Neither if we should admit you yâ— interpretation could you collect from thence that the kingdome of God could not be in anie vnlesse they haue this But as we vsually reade in the olde and new Testament Christs kingdome to be taken for his true visible Church here in earth so we acknowledg his vniuersall Church kingdome to extend to all such as by a true faith apprehend confesse Christ howsoeuer they be scattered or whersoeuer dispersed vpon the face of the earth Yet both with this interim without true faith obedience can be no true Church no true Christian. THE 2 Article ought all men that will please God to approue THIS Article you say ought al that wil please God to approue How then seek you to please God vvhich continue in Idolatrie are a Minister therof vvhich prophecie in Baall plead for Baall Or how approue you yt when you condempne vs of schisme and heresie because we forsake your false antichristiaÌ„ worship and seek to worship Christ according to his word THE 3 Article if it be taken in this sense that yee dare set vp a societie seperated from all others vvithin this land vvhich make publique profession then I see not when you haue gon by your selues set vp your Officers how you will cleare your selues from Donatisme If theirs were a damnable fact which God did accurse then take heed to yours for if it can be shewed that their heresies are not holden I will chang my minde THE words of our Article being That we seek the fellowship and communion of Christs faithfull obedient seruants cleare vs of all schisme heresie So that if you would convince vs of these crimes it had bene expedient you had first proued your assemblies as they generally stand by the euidence of Gods word to be true churches of Christ rightly entred keeping couenant with the Lord continuing in the order and obedience of his word c and that we preposterously haue departed from you and vncharitably haue forsaken your fellowship But as soone as you shall shew vs such a church emoÌ„g you by the grace of God we wil shew you how free we are of schisme As likewise when you shall lay open our errors vnto vs how farr we wil be froÌ„ heresie In the meane time we will not cease to pray vnto God for you that he will not lay these sinnes vnto your charge which in your ignorant zeale you commyt but in mercy shew you the feareful estate you staÌ„d in and giue you an heart vnfeinedly to repent speedely to turne vnto him THE 4 Article ought all men to practise so far forth as the limitts of their calling doo extend But let it be shewed that euer priuat men did take vpon them to reforme when things were amisse in the Church or that anie of the Prophetts did wil them to take the matter in hand or shew your warrant that you be not priuat men
THIS Article you first alowe and after restreyne to we wot not what limits of calling But if you grant it the dutie of euerie true Christian to seek to establish obey the ordinances lawes of Christ left in his Testament to the gouerning of his Church without altering c it is as much as we indeuour or purpose Otherwise we allowe not that which the law of God condempneth either intrusion without lawfull calling either transgression in calling or presumption aboue calling Our purpose is not to medle with the reformation of the state otherwise then by our prayers vnto God and refreining from al things that are coÌ„trarie to Gods lawe Neither indeuour we to reforme your Babilonish deformities or to repaire the ruines of Hierico or dawbe the wall of Aâ—tichrist with you This trash we know to be deuote to execratioÌ„ by the Lords owne irreuocable sentence and therfore we leaue the reformation of them to the Lords visitation in iudgment holding it our dutie without al delay to obey the voice of God which calleth vs out of all places where he is not truly worshipped according to his word where his lawes are wilfully broken Antichrists lawes obeyed And this to be the commandement of God in the law by his Prophets Christ himself and his Apostles is euerie where in the scripture manifest without exception of person or restreint of calling euen vnto euerie one that wilbe saued In the rest whatsoeuer you surmise of vs we arrogat no swelling titles we are as we professe to be simple hearted Christians which seek to worship and obey Christ as our only King Priest and Prophet And to our Prince we are humble obedieÌ„t subiects in all things which are not repugnant to Gods lawes IF a man hath the truth it is good to stand vnto yt to the death rather then denie yt as our Church in the same estate it is in now yeilded many blessed coÌ„stant Martirs But if a man hath not the truth it is a great obstinacie to die for yt as sondrie Anabaptists and other hereticks haue shewed Euerie true Christian will rather die then denie the discipline which Christ hath left But you must shew that God commandeth priuat men to set yt vp THE word of God your owne mouth hauing approued our desires in these Articles we cannot be moued with Satans olde tentation to doubt of the Lords vndoubted truth or call his commandements into question with if it be true c. Neither can we be remoued by that olde popish reason which you bring of certeine blessed Martires that died in this estate your Church is now in This is not to approue the estate of your Church by Christs Testament Which vntill you doo though all the men in the world should die both in yt for yt yet could they not iustifie that God condempneth But in deed the holy Martirs you speak of neither died in yt nor for yt Not in yt being by Gods great mercy depriued and discharged by their enimies Not for yt but for the truth of CHRIST they most constantly gaue their lyues Neither can it be shewed where euer they resisted the truth being shewed them or denied to heare yt at y e most simple maÌ„s mouth or euer yeilded to anie corruption or yoake that God gaue them sight of contrarie to their owne coÌ„sciences as you doo in these dayes Therfore so far are they from iustifiâ—ng you in this your general apostasie as that they being found faithfull in that litle in the twilight shall rise in iudgmeÌ„t with this generation in this great light with al the giftes they boast of Euerie true Christian you say will die rather then denie the discipline that Christ hath left With what conscience then can you esteeme emong the wicked Anabaptists and condempned dampned hereticks that suffer in their obstinacie vs that cast off the yoak of Antichrist seek suffer for the true worship holy gouernmeÌ„t of Christ Or how can you flatter your selues in the fearful estate you stand in drawing so euen by long custome in Antichrists yoake not only in deed and practise denijng the gouernment of CHRIST but to your vtmost indeuour by contumelious reproches vniust sclanders and open persecution seek to resist and suppresse yt But we must shew that God commandeth priuat men to set yt vp First God commandeth in his law euerie one to seek the place where he putteth his name CHRIST in the Gospel to seek the kingdome of God to take his yoake vpoÌ„ them c. Againe CHRIST hath left but one forme of gouernment in his last Will and Testament vnto his Church which he hath fealed with his blood and therfore not left yt arbitrable at y e pleasures of Princes or pollicies of tymes to be done or vndon but made yt by a double right inuiolable both by his word and his Testament so that the Church of God caÌ„ neither be gouerned by anie other lawes or gouernment neither ought yt to be without this for God holdeth them all in the estate of enimies which haue not his Sonne to reigne ouer them Now then the faithfull are coÌ„manded to gather togither in CHRIST his name with promise of direction protection and with authoritie not only to establish his lawes ordinances emongst them but faithfully to gouerne his Church therby For the kingdome of God consisteth not in word but in power Now this assemblie of the faithfull before they be planted established in this order consisteth hitherto but of perticular priuat persons none as yet being called to office or function Therfore we may well conclude that God coÌ„mandeth his faithfull seruants being as yet priuat meÌ„ togither to build his church according to the true patterne of Christs Testament without altering changing innouating c. And for this we haue the example of the primatiue Churches for our patterns and warrant which sued not to Courtes Parliaments nor wayted vpon Princes pleasures when the stones were in a redines but presently hauing receiued y e faith of Christ receiued likewise the ordinances of Christ and continued in the same Againe if they should tarie Princes leisuers where were the persecution you speake of Princes neuer punish them that obey their hestes And thus because you caÌ„not endure the fierie triall of persecution you vtterly by your perfidous tolleration abrogate at once the crosse of Christ. And that you might enioy this worldly peace fleshly pleasure for a season you care not to make Christ attend vpon Princes and to be subiect to their lawes and gouernment But alas it were fitter with a loude voice to call you out of Babilon theÌ„ thus to sing you hebrue songes in Babilon THIS Article mentioneth 4 principall Transgressions wherin the assemblies in England are iudged and affirmed to be heinouslie faultie and wilfully obstinate Elias did see outward idolatrie practised and did see none that did mislike and