all the ruine that was in the Churche of God was a good Kyng and very zealous of the glorie of God Wherefore rightly Hely answered him it is thou thy fathers householde that troublest Israell And here doeth Achab shewe hymself like these Deuilles which complained of Iesus Christ And yet all these Kynges of whom I haue spoken would not be holden for Infidelles no more then those whiche in these daies will be holden for Christiā Princes magistrates yea reformed accordyng to the Gospell and neuerthelesse thei will receiue the Gospel but according to their own pleasure And if that in al tymes there hath been suche contradiction of Princes and magistrates against the seruauntes of God and if thei refused to submit themselues to the worde of God the rebellion was not lesse amōg y e people whiche commonly followe the maner of their Princes and Lordes rather of those that rebell against God and his seruauntes thē of those that shewe their duetie as thei ought to God warde And sithe it is so what reason is it to condēne as wel the true seruauntes of God the good Magistrates and other good men which do well discharge their office as their aduersaries which from tyme to tyme haue troubled the Churche Eust I graunt that wer no reason but this is nothyng to my talke Theo. It is al one For it semeth that thou wouldest haue so perfect a Churche y t there should be no dissention or discord but it is in vaine to looke for any such here as our Sauiour Christ hymself hath well declared vnto vs by the parables and similitudes which he vsed For there will alwaies bee ill fishe among the good in the net of the Gospel and the Lordes fielde will neuer bee so cleane in this worlde but that there will bee alwaies darness mingled with the good seede which wil be so like in growing y ◠it cā not be knowen frō the other till it shewe it self farther Eust What is the cause thereof Theo. Among others there are twoo most worthie to be noted Eust Whiche be thei Theo. The first is that the Deuill doth alwaies mingle his seed with the Lords seed vntill the Lorde doe cleane separate them Eust And what is the second Theo. The second is that the very childrē and seruaunts of God are neuer so perfectly regenerated in the worlde neither can not so well mortifie their olde Adam sinful flesh but that there alwaies remaineth many carnall affections in them yea euen in the perfectest whiche is the cause thei can not be so perfect as thei ought to be Wherefore the most iust are greatly greeued that thei can not become so obedient to the will of God as thei desire and as God in his law requireth euē as S. Paule witnesseth of hymself But I wil leaue to talke any more hereof at this tyme because I wil come to y e point y t Tobie talked of touching the new temporal Pope Tobie Truely I would gladly heare thy mynde therein Theo. I doubt not but the Deuill would be glad to doe as muche as you haue spoken touchyng this matter in those places where the spiritual Pope is beaten doune He hath heaued vp his spirituall Pope vnder y e title of Minister of the Churche and hath taken occasion to giue vnto hymself many goodly titles and suche authoritie as the spirite of God giueth to y e true Ministers of his word and their Ministerie But if the Deuill and his false Prophetes and pastors haue abused the name of this holy ministerie and the true ministers of the Lorde to vsurpe tyrannie ouer the Churche of Iesus Christ vnder this colour it followeth not therefore that the authoritie of the true Ministerie of the church and the true ministers of the Lord which is giuen them of God and not of men ought to bee diminished For whosoeuer vseth suche meane to correct the fault that the Pope and his haue committed in this behalfe doth not reforme the Church but deforme it more thē it was before And therefore when the true Ministers of the Gospell preached in the beginnying against the Pope and other false Sheepeheardes whiche haue abused the ministerie of the Church and wholy ouerthrowen it and whē thei haue admonished Princes and Magistrates to set to hande that the abuse whiche was in the Church might bee corrected and reformed accordyng to y e word of God thei preached not that the Magistrates should take any tyrannie ouer y e Church whiche thei condemned and that thei should tread the ministerie therof vnder their feete but that thei ought to bestow their whole power in restoryng of it to such perfectnesse as it ought to be according to Gods word And to the ende that the Magistrates should not sticke at it and think that it belonged not to them thei shewed them what was their duetie and how muche God had honoured them in callyng them thereto Thei likewise declared vnto them the honour that the spirite of God sheweth to that holy state in y e sacred Scriptures and what dishonour and iniury the Pope and his prophetes haue doen vnto it Wherein thei did not amisse but faithfully executed their charge If there be any that haue passed their boundes therein I will not excuse their fault And likewise if there be any Magistrates that stretch that farther thē thei ought whiche hath been preached vnto them by the true ministers of the Lorde touchyng the authoritie and power that y e Lord hath giuen them the fault is not in the true ministers but in those which abuse their doctrine which is the doctrine of God For ther is no more reason to blame them in such case then to blame the Prophetes and Apostles because thei writ of the excellencie as wel of the ministerie of the Gospell as of the state of Magistrates For thei wrote not y t which thei haue written to giue the Deuill false prophetes and tyrauntes occasion therby to vsurp tyrannie ouer the Church but because the troth is so and that it is needfull that the faithfull should so vnderstande it for whom thei haue both written and preached and not for tyrauntes or enemies of the Churche If there be thē any Magistrates in these daies whiche vnder title of authoritie and power that God hath giuen them will take more authoritie and power ouer the Churche then God willeth them and will make the Ministerie of the same subiect vnto them as the Pope hath made thē subiect to hym and his and hath also made subiect the power and authoritie of Princes Magistrates thesame doe verely sett vp a newe Pope chaungyng only his coate and maske And by this meanes Sathan shall establishe a newe Popedome vnder another colour but al wil come to one ende though thei take an other waie And so the tyrannie that he tofore tyme hath vsed ouer the Churche and ministerie
is faire and cleare but when they see the winter of mishap come vppon vs they flie away from vs euery chone And therefore it was not amisse said of Pithagoras to forbid men of receiuing the swallowe vnder their roufe Tob. What meant Pythagoras by that Theo. His meaning was that it is not good to be familiarly acquainted w t Iang lers slaunderers and vnthankfull persons-who are rightly represented by the Swallowe For a man shall neuer get any good by them but sorrowe griefe hurt and dishonour And is not the flie likewise I pray you alwayes in the kitchin The first at the Table the first in the dishe and tasteth all the meates wee eate of Yea they will doe it although we were Emperours and Kinges and more then this to They take assaye oftentimes before the cooke Ier. But what fauour find we by them for all the benefites which they dayly haue at our hands in our houses What wage reward haue we of them Tob. This wee haue they greue and beray with their dirt whatsoeuer faire and beautifull thing that is within the house Ier. And more then that for they engender vermin and corruption neuer ceasing to importune sting and bite vs euē til the blood follow withal and are neuer contented with all the benefits y ◠we bestow on thē wtout they also suck drinke our blood Tob. These Flyes are farre more dangerous then man and a great deale more vnthankefull I see fathers and mothers also dayly that cannot agree with their children but after that those fathers and mothers haue wasted the odours and fumes of the odours which are continually about their children and dandeled them and haue been greeued and vexed and had many a foule hand with them in the bringing of them vp so soone as these children haue bin growne vp to rype yeeres they would not once acknowledge either father or mother They would neither see them nor beare with them but driue them oftentimes out of the house or els theyr parents were inforced to driue them out by reason of their rebellion and wicked dealing I neuer saw any such vnthankfulnesse nor crueltie betweene Dogs and Cats Wolues and Lymmers Lions and Lions whelpes I haue seene these Landleapers who haue lead all the countries ouer Lions Beares Apes Asses Horses and many other sortes of beasts and ruled them as they listed For they would make them do whatsoeuer they pleased and commanded them They haue made them daunce leape lye styll stand vp touch on the ground make curtesie march march with a pyke and winde a flate To bee shorte I am not able to tell you in a longtime howe many sundrie thinges they haue taught them and made them doe For they taught them to doe all things What is the cause then why man is so well able to instruct the most vnteachable bruite beasts and doe learne of him and yet hee himselfe not able to teach himselfe nor yet learne of himselfe that that is necessary for hym to learne and without the which he is in deed no man Ierom. No not the wife of her husbande nor the childe of the father Toby What is the cause then why doe these Landleapers take so great paine to teach beastes after this sort Ierom. It is to none other ende but to make men sporte and thereby get money of them that they myght liue the easelier Tob. Now what greater pleasure can any man haue then to see his children well instructed Is there any Ape more pleasant with whom may they haue any better pastime And what greater commodity can any Landleaper draw out of beastes which he so teacheth then the father frō his sonne the husband from his wife or the brother from his brother or one neighbour from an other if they could as wel learne of them as the beasts learne of the Landleapers Ierom. This is most certaine a man shall finde a great many moe children like the Hippopotame then the Storke Toby What manner of beast is that Hippopotame Ierom. It is a beast that is bred chiefly in Egypt in the riuer of Nile y e one half of him is like an horse and the other halfe like a fish And therefore he beareth this name that is to say a riuer horse Tob. What is thy meaning by naming of this beast Ierom. I will tell thee They that haue written the histories of the natures of beastes haue set downe the nature of this beast to bee so peruerse and cruell as that so soone as hee is come to any rype yeeres being therto brought by y e endeuour of his parents that hee will kill his father and afterwarde haue to doe with his mother And howe many children thynkest thou shall wee finde at this day who are not grieued that Fathers mothers liue so long and thinke of nothing els but to see the end of them Toby And how many thinkest thou there are of such childrē who bring their parentes to the graue with very sorowe and pensiuenes to see their vntowardnes Ierom. Alas if man sheweth him selfe to be such a one to those who haue begotten him and brought him vp what good shall other men hope for at his handes Toby But tell mee also I beseech thee what thou meanest by speaking of the Storkes Ierom. I put in them beecause they are of a cleane contrary nature For if wee shal giue credit vnto natural Philosophers both Greeks and Latines to their Prouerbs they bring vp comfort their dams in their old age by that meanes shew thē selues thankful vnto them for their bringing vp of thē when they were young How sayest thou Theophrast is it not so Theo. In very deede the Hebrewes giue this Fowle which here in our lāguage we call a stork giueth her in y e Hebrew tōgue a name which signifieth mercy curtesie And therefore there is great lykelyhood that this name was giuen vnto her vppon the reason which thou haste yeelded And therefore Basill the great exhorteth all Christians to followe the examples of the Storke Ierom. And Suydas also testifieth that hereupon an Embleame and deuise was made In which there was a kinglye scepter layd vpō an Hippopotame therevpon iewbed certaine Storkes To. What was the meaning hereof Ierom. The meaning was this That Kings and Princes should by their power and authoritie suppresse all vnthankefull wicked and tyrannous personnes that would not yeelde their obedience to those to whom in duetie and conscience they are bound but yeelde ill for good both to theyr parentes countrey and Church whoe had begotten them and brought them vp And contrariwise they that should sustaine and maintaine al such as were Debonaire and acknowledged the good turnes which they had receyued and had discharged them selues of all such dueties as of right they ought Theo. And for that cause also S. Ambrose saith that amongst
Iesus Christ For I dare saie that thei haue abolished as many or more as theirs whiche haue better ground and are muche more agreable to the rule and Discipline of the Primitiue Churche Tobie I confesse for my part that there is greate abuse growne in the aunciente discipline of the Churche But me thinkes thei should be contented to correct thē and keepe that which is good and accordyng to the first ordenaunce of Iesus Christ not abolish al. Eusta Thou saiest truthe But thei maie not be tolde of their faultes whiche be verie greate For if thei be tolde of them then thei crie out why doe you trouble vs Are not all thynges in good order And if we goe about to shewe theim their disorder by the worde of God and wherein their Traditions are different from the same thei answere that thei will dispute no more and that thei bee alreadie resolued what thei ought to beleeue and followe And yet when we made the like answere to them and those that holde the same religion thei mocked vs and said we answered so because we durst not stand to the trial and that wee haue suche mistrust in our weapon that we be afraied to enter into combat Tobie Surely now I perceiue that thou art at them in good earnest me thinkes thou handlest theim as thei ought to bee handled For thou beatest them with their owne rod and condemnes theim with their owne sentēce But I praie thee how art thou become so greate a doctor in diuinitie How couldest thou perceiue all this that thou hast spoken Eusta How could I not perceiue y t which is manifest to all menne For since our firste conuersation together might I not wel perceiue that whiche I sawe and heard daiely I reporte mee to Ierome and Theophrastus thē selues whether this be true or not For although we be of Religion and opinion differēt yet I take thē to be so honest that thei will not lye against their owne conscience Theo. Tobie and you haue made a verie long discourse wherein ye haue very nere touched vs and likewise all these that dooe bragge at this daie of the reformation of the Gospell wherin ye haue neither spared Magistrate Minister nor people Eusta Yet we haue spared you more then you haue spared vs or our Prelates pastors or Magistrates But when wee saie trothe what neede we to speake Theo. I cōfesse that whiche you haue spoken is not so false as I would it wer but me seemeth you doe vs wrong in that you make no difference betweene those that abuse the Gospell as you saie those that liue accordyng to thesame but condemne all as well the good as the euill without iudgyng the cause wherin me thinkes ye shewe your selues as if ye would condemne Iesus Christ as well as the deuills whiche complained of hym because thei are one against an other at difference if we condēne all those that are at strife we must aswell condēne God as the deuill for thei were alwaies at strife shall neuer be otherwise nor cā not Now if God and the deuill bee at strife we maie not saie that those which take Gods part in aniwise agree with those that take the deuills parte And to take bothe parts is impossible seyng then that it is so it can not bee but that those whiche serue the deuill and will not become obediēt to God will alwaies burthen y e true seruantes of God with thesaid complaintes that the deuils laied to Iesus Christe For if the deuil durst do it to the maister it is not to be doubted but y t he wil giue boldnesse to his to do the like to y e seruantes of Iesus Christ seyng he durst doe it to Christ hymself Eusta I agree to all that But you that glorie so muche in the reformation of your Gospell bragge to bee all faithfull all good men to followe the pure worde of God to be all led and guided by the holy ghost and condemne all others that are not of your secte Theo. That notwithstādyng it followeth not that all thei that bragge of suche things be suche as thei would bee estemed For the churche of God will neuer be without hypocrites and false brethren mingled emongest the children of God whiche bryng more dangerous and offensiue warre to the churche of God thē any other enemies whatsoeuer thei be And therfore there will alwaies be suche Deuilles and suche possessed inough in the churche as thou speakest of that will cry out on Christ and his seruantes and complaine on them but yet thei are not of the Churche For there is great differēce betwene beyng of the Churche and beeyng in the Churche But where cā the deuill assaile Christ nerer and more subtilly then in his church What sort of men can he better vse to serue his purpose then those whiche onely will be holden for the true mēbers of the churche but suche as shal be in greatest credite and aucthoritie in thesame If thou wilt talke of Ministers I would aske of thee when was the churche euer without false Prophetes dombe doggs flatterers and Hirelynges whiche haue alwaies warred against the true Prophetes Apostles and against the true Ministers of the lorde And haue not these been moste promoted and beste estemed emongest men If ye talke of Kynges Princes Lordes and Magistrates consider how many haue there been found that haue yelden suche obediēce to the worde of God whiche hath been declared vnto theim by the Prophetes and other ministers of the Lorde and haue shewed thē suche honour and reuerence as thei ought For one that hath been founde to yeld suche duetie to their Minister as behoued there haue been twentie found that haue doen the contrary which haue not been contented not onely to despise the doctrine of the true seruauntes of God but haue also driuen them out and persecuted them themselues And when I speake this I speake not of suche Princes and Magistrates whiche haue had dominion ouer suche people and Nations as wer esteemed Infidels but I speak of those that reigned ouer the people whiche were esteemed of God and of his Church But how many haue been founde among this people whiche would haue disposed the religion after their owne fantasies to make it serue to their affections and commodities whiche haue vsurped the offices in the church which belonged not to them Ieroboam Ahaz and Ozias whiche were Kynges ouer Iuda and Israell do sufficiently witnesse vnto vs. And when all these wer reproued by y e Prophets how were thei receiued After that Achab with his Iesabel had peruerted all the diuine seruice by the meanes of his false Prophets what said he to Hely Was it not laied to his charge that it was he y e troubled all Israell Hely whiche onely went about to set vp the true seruice of God accordyng to his lawe troubled all and Achab whiche was cause of
the Almaynes are not to bee onelye charged therwith For we are able to say without counterfetting that there is a diuellish couetousnes al the world throughout And if a man should consider well of the matter we should see couetousnesse to be a verye right shee Diuel and maketh men become hee Diuels maketh such a nūber of Demoniacks as the woman was of whō thou erst spakest and begetteth suche a number of great litle Diuels to play this pageāt as that the whole worlde is nothing els but a Diuelrie altogether diuelished Ierome This was that she diuel which chiefly made Iudas such a Diuel as thou hast saide he was and so neuer sithence that euer she ceassed hatching and bringing forth of such like as her self who are the greatest hinderers of the course of the gospel which any way might come vnto it Tob. We are then in a iolly countrey when as we be in suche an hel and haue to doe with so many sortes of Demoniackes and Diuels Ier. The danger is not so great to haue to doe with them as it is to be one of the number Tob. I right wel know thy meaning And therefore the hardest matter for vs resteth herein to find y e meanes how to auoyd al these inconueniences to wit howe wee may first keepe our selues from falling into these mischiefes The second is as touching the meane whereby we may eschewe the hurt which these diuels and Demoniackes might doe vs. Ier. That which thou hast spoken of is the very best and chiefest For to what purpose were it for a man to vnderstand the disease without a man did thinke to get necessary remedyes for the healing thereof and it were to smal purpose to thinke of them without a man were sure to find them Tob. In very deede it would serue to none other end but the more to torment the party grieued and make him become more desperat◠Ier. And therefore the verye best way will be that at our first meeting together we trauel and goe about this matter The Title and effect of the sixt Dialogue of the Demoacke world THis sixt Dialogue is intituled The coniuration of Diuelles because in it is set forth whiche way to driue out Diuels whiche rule and torment the world Wheruppon those remedies are spoken of which Saul sought after that hee might bee ridde of that wicked spirite whiche tormented him and of the remedies which Infidels and wicked men hunt after for such diseases as come vnto them and how men haue recourse vnto creatures wheras in truth they should run vnto God Of the cause of Saul his madnes and of the right remedy that was vsed for the same Of the blockish and witching spirit which God sendeth vnto vs in his iust iudgement For what cause fasting and prayer are auayleable for the driuing out of diuels How very necessary a thing the increase of faith is Of the true vse of fasting and of the abuse thereof Of gluttonie drunkennesse cloked vnder the title of the libertie of the Gospell and namely in the person of the Magistrates and ministers of the church Of the Diuels force whē he is to be put out of his lodging Of the victory which Iesus Christ hath against him Of the principall and most necessary knowledge that is wāting in man of his vnthankfulnesse as well towardes God as also vnto to those to whom of duety he is bound The sixte Dialogue of the Demoniacke worlde intituled The Coniuration of Diuels Ierome Tobie Eustace Theophrast Ierome THou desiredst Tobie to vnderstand what remedies there were to keep vs not onely from becomming to be Demoniacks but also to be defēded from taking anye hurt either by the diuels or by the demoniacks whom the diuels possesse and rule Tob. Very true And therefore I am here now ready to heare what fit remedies thou haste brought mee for the purpose For I right well knowe that all the Priestes Friers and Charmers Coniurations and all the Coniurers that be in the worlde will litle or nothing auayle without there be some other helping hand then theirs Ier. Why man thou must not looke that the diuels and Demoniackes coniure one another Tob. Why speakest thou that Ier. Because if there be any men in the whole world ouer whom the diuels raigne and haue power they are the people of whom thou erst speakest And therefore if there bee any who of right are to bee taken for Demoniackes euen those kindes of men of whom we heretofore spake are to bee looked for amonges the men of that Courte For they are suche demoniackes as that they make all men els very demoniackes also what with their false doctrine traditions and by meane of that wicked spyrite which guideth and gouerneth them For seeing they are the guyders and Gouernours of others it cannot bee chosen but that they whiche are guyded and gouerned by them must needs bee led by that spirit which guideth gouerneth their leaders and Gouernours Tob. I doubt that Eustace wil not yeeld vnto that thy opinion Ier. I care not whether he will yeelde to it or not yet I am sure it is true that I haue sayde Eust If thou wilt needes haue it so I shall but loose time to speake against thee And therefore I shal be contented to heare what Coniurers they are that thou canst bring foorth for thy parte and see what greater vertue they haue more then those whom thou hast disciphered and so greatly blamed Ier. Mee thinketh Tobie that Theo. hath shewed vnto vs a most excellent remedie against this mischiefe whiche is so greatly to be feared so that in my opinion if we take it we shall neuer neede anie other Tob. A vnderstand right wel y t he hath sent vs backe to Iesus Christ to seeke this meane and remedy at his hand And surely for myne owne parte I would neuer goe any further Theo. Saul very diligently sought after it but because he went not to God to whō he ought to haue gone he neuer found that comfort and remedy against his disease that he looked for Tob. What remedy was that Theo. His seruants made him beleeue that it was best for him to haue some cunning Musition which could play excellently vpon an harpe And he thought this to be very good counsel Wherupō he forthwith sent to haue such an one gotten him and at last Dauid was brought to him to play this parte for hee had therein moste excellent skill Tob. What reason had they to doe thus Theo. There was great likelihoode that the seruantes which gaue Saule this counsel as the historie witnesseth were his Phisitions who had met together to consult of his disease For when anye sickenesse or other inconuenience falleth vpon the wicked they neuer cōsider that it is the hande and rodde of the Lorde that is layde vppon them without they bee enforced thereto with the greate blowes of a mawle as was layde vppon Pharaoh and the