justice of their cause are guilty before God os Treason Murder and Rebellion Dub. This censure is very severe and yet I cannot tell what to reply against it Many well meaning people observing certain abuses in Church and Common-wealth much desired a reformation of them and promised to themselves great things from the Long Parliament whereupon such is the brutish inclination of earnest desires and great expectations in the minds of men that are of short discourse that these poor inconsiderable persons were engaged against King and Country before they had well weighed That good Intentions cannot justify unlawful Actions That God has no need of the sinner That we must not do evil that good may come thereon But I am perswaded that these seduced men do see their former errors and are â—ruly penitent abominating from their hearts all Treasons and Rebellions against their Dread Sovereign and for the future will keep themselves from such unchristian practises Firm. I much commend you for your Chariâ—y and for those that had their hands in that grand Rebellion acd are noâ— truly penitent my hearty prayers are that the Lord would be merciful unto them and bless them and shew them the light of his countenance My severe censure as you were pâ—â—ased â—o â—ail it was never intended against such but we see very few that have manifested any signal tokens of repentance for their lifting up their hands against the Lord 's Anointed rather we may fear they will commit the same wickedness against his Majestie that now swayes the Royal Scepter if they hid a fair opportunity Disobedience is a long step to Rebellion and is it not evident that our present Non-conformists are more disobedient more refractory against his Majesties Laws Ecclesiastical then those that lived before the late warrs who though they were Non-conformists yet were they not Separatists Brownists as our present Non-conformists for the most part are some of them Mr. as Ball in his Tryal of the grounds of Separation and others smartly wriâ—ng against such Fanatiâ—ks And truly were there not a judicial blindness upon these men they might see by a wonderful providence the Lord did not own them in their Rebellious undertakings How strangely did their numerous and potent Armies dwindle into no thing hoâ— miraculously was our Gratious Soveraign preserved against all their Treasonable attempts and brought to the Throne of his Fathers with the greatest honor most general expressions of love and rejoycing that ever any Prince received from â—oyal Subjects and all this without the spilâ—ing of one drop of blood The Lord set it upon the heart of King and People to keep this signâ—l dispensation of His Providence in perpetual remembrance not to ruine theÌ„selves by Atheism Irreligion Profaneness or any enormous wickedness for which the wrath of God has bâ—en pouâ—ed out in full Viols upon wicked Kings and ungodly people as Sacred and other â—iâ—â—ories do sâ—sficiently manifest Dub. It may be feared that there are discontented persons who are like wrangling Gamsters that having a bad game dealt them desire the Cards might be shuffl'd again that they might have a better Stock but I am perswaded many would conform were there a Toleration in Reference to some Ceremonies as has been said and the Renouncing of the Covenant not enjoyn'd Firm. You have had my opinion as to a Toleration in point of Ceremonies as to the Covenant tho it hâ—s been the opinion of several moderate men that it had been better if it had dyed without any such solemn Act for ' its Abrenuntiâ—tion yet being it was peccant in all the four causes the Efficient Formal Material and Final 't was expedient in some respects for the Parliament to vote that it should be Renounced by all that expect Preferment in the Church of England and I do not see how any man who conceives himself bound by it can be a faithful Subject to His Prince besides there seems to be a signal judgment in it that the Covenant which was used as an Engine to remove the Cavaleers out of their Livings should have the same effect upon the Contrivers and â—igid Imposers of it for many of those were undon because they would not take it these because they would not Renounce it Nec lex est justior ulla Quam necis artifices arte perire sua 'T is Justice Law that he should feel the smart Who was first Author of that cruel Art I remember what Tacitus sayes of Cajus Vibius Eò immitior quia toleraverat And 't is like that the Cavileers having such a hard measure from the imposition of the Covenant would when power was in their hands make use of the Law of Retaliation by driving on the Act for Renouncing the Covenant and peradventure in some men there might be a grain or more of the Spirit of Revenge not beseeming Christian Charity how ever 't is a remarkable peice of Divine Providence that those who Pressed the Covenant upon their Brethren without mercy should suffer by it without mercy Dub. But as long as men have so little of a Christian spirit in them as to act by the Law of Retaliation of Spite and Revenge there is little of Peace and Unity to be expected Firm. We ought not to judge Acts of Parliament to be the Efforts of Revenge and Spite as for the Act about the Covenant there was some kind of necessity for it as to make tryal who were Loyal and Obedient Subjects who not for as 't was said before he that conceives himself bound by the Scotcâ—-Chaine cannot be a good English Subject However if the Suspending of that Act would assuredly unite us in Love and Peace I hartily wish that 't were not prest upon those that are of a quiet and peaceable Spirit agreeing with us in the most necessary Points of Religion that so we that have one Faith one Baptisme one Hope one Lord Iesus Christ one God the Father of all might keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of Peace which is both our duty and our interest if we consider what advantage the Papists make of those divisions which are too many amongst us the Seeds whereof have been Sown by the Roman-Emissarys Dub. 'T is not to be doubted but that peace and unity and love among our selves would much dishearten those restless Enemies of our Church and State who leâ—ve no Stone unturn'd to divide us that they might Reign over us and perswade us by their most cogent Arguments which are Gun-Powder Fire and Fagot Bloody Massacres to embrace their gross Superstition and cause Religion and Primitive Christianity to flourish in our miserable divided Nation while that time which is now spent in vain wranglements and un-Christian contentions would be better imploy'd in devout Prayer Holy Meditation in Mortification of our Corruptions in duties of Piety towards Almighty God of Love Mercy and Charity one towards another And now Sir give me leave to pay you my very hearty acknowledgments for the profitable pains which you have taken to bring me out of those Bracks and Bogs of Atheisme Infidelity Schisme and Heresy unto my Old Mother the Church of Englâ—nd in whose Faith and Communion Thou O Father of Mercies Prince of Peace and God of all Consolation ever blessed and most Sacred Trinity â— grant that I may continue unto â—y Lives end and that I may so continue I beg your daily Prayers Firm. 'T is our great Christian duty to Pray one for another I shall not be wanting in the performance of it for your establishment in the true Ancient Catholick Christianity and I earnestly beseech you to remember me in your frequent intercessions and supplications at the Throne of Grace Blessed be the God of all power and wisdome who has thus prosper'd my weak endeavours in converting you from the error of your waies I will ad no more but this that you be true to the Doctrine Worship Discipline of our Church as they are contain'd in the Articles Liturgie Canons and Rubricks of it hold not any truth in Unrighteousness let your practise shew to the World that you truly and heartily believe what you profess be honest just in your Dealings towards men Temperate and Sober towards your selfe serious and single hearted in all duties of piety towards God and whatsoever things are honest whatsoever things are true whatsoever things are just Holy Lovely of good report Think on these things Practise these things make not the actions of men the Customs and Examples of these loose and evil Times humane Laws your rule to walk by but let the holy will and word of God be the adequate measure of your Life and Conversation walk conscientiously according to this rule and Peace and Mercy shalll be upon you as a true Israelite and one of Gods Peculiar People Amen FINIS ERRATA PAge 9. l. 11. read Dependent p. 12. l. 10. for puting r. putting p. 21. for their r. there p. 22. l. 3. leave our whether they be Pagans or Christians I know not p. 38. l. 12. for Statues r. statutes p. 70 l. 26. â— some of the Church p. 83. l. 12. for suspition r. superstition p. 104. l. 20. potius ad bene esse quam simpliciter ad esse is misplaced p. 113. â—r â— â—ot â—ankfulness p. 116.25 r. licence p. 119. l. 22. r. clear p. 121. l. 25. â— who was of p. 123. l. 22. r. incorporated p. 126. l. 28. r that have ruled well p. 129. l. 13. r. stiled p. 132. l 29. r. that sit at the Stern p. 133. l. 22. r. but not the end p. 136. l. â— r. throw away p. 138. l. 19. r. by phansies p 140. l. 30. r. assistance p. 155. l. 15. r. â—â—tâ—rioâ—sly ibid. 2â— 1 suspension p. 1â—5 l. â—3 r. suspensions †Dr. Moors Antidote and Dr. Stillingsâ—eets Orig. Sacrae pâ—g 395. R. B. Câ—â—visse videas crescere non vides see Mr. Pools Nullity of the Roman Faith Cenâ—â—l 〈◊〉 Sâ—ss 12. Câ—n. 1. Non imagini sâ—d numini sacrificamus Ae Mr Fowes History 2 Cor. 10.4 Prov. 24. Eccle. 8.2 Rom. 13.1 Pet. 2. Ier. 4.2 Deut. 6.13 Heb. 6.16 2. Cor. 1. Rev. 10.6 1 Cor. 1.14 Act. 2. Math. 28. 1. Cor. 9. â—poâ— 2.3 †'T was not long since that some of the Presbyterian aâ—d Iâ—pendent perswasion were Deans and Caâ—ons of Christ Church in Oxford such Dâ—gnities not then thought to be useless and Aâ—â—i-christian why should they be esteemed so now
the folly and madness of this Phanaticism and from whence it sprang please you we will discourse of Anabaptisme pray you what do you think of that DIALOGVE V. against Anabaptisme Firm. ANabaptism is a most carnal and bloody Sect as appears by the History of Iohn of Leiden Knipperdoling wrot by Sleiden and Bullenger Dub. But what do you think of their opnion â—oncerning Infâ—nt Baptism I shall not trouble you with other of their Tenents which are common to them with other Schismaticks Firm. That Opinion of theirs is contrary to Scripture and the practise of the Catholick Church Dub. I have often heâ—rd them say That if there were any express Text in Scripture for the Baptisiâ—g of Infants they would allow of that practise Firm. Though there be no express place in Scripture for it as there was for Circumcising of Children under the law yet there are many Texts which do infer it by rational consequence What express Text is there for the Communicating of Woemen which nevertheless the Anabaptists practise have they not express Texts for obeying the Civil Magistrate for taking an Oath before him thou shalt swear the Lord liveth in justice in judgment and truth Thou shalt fear the Lord and swear by his name I call God for a recâ—rd upon my Soul an Oath for Confirmation is not was an end of all strife And we have the Angel in the Revelation which was never under the Levitical law swearing Yoâ— see here are express Texts for obedience to Magistrates and for taking an Oath before them yet the Anabaptists will not swear at all which is a moral duty enjoyned in the third CoÌ„mandment and how obedient they are to the Supream powers let Germany and England witness in our â—ate Civil Wars so that you may see that if there were an express Text for Infant Baptism they would not yeild unto it but follow their own wild imaginations Dub. Doubtless 't is grand hypocrisy to call for express Texts for Infants-Baptism and yet to act directly against such Texts in other points of Necessary duty Firm. True it is we have no express Texts for Infants-Baptism yet we have many that do necessarily infer it as that of our Savioâ—r suffer little Children â—o come unto me which he took in his Arms and Blessed certainly those that were capable of his blessing were capable of the seal of it The children of believers are said to be holy The promise is to you and to your children Go teach all nations baptizing them in the name of the Father Son and Holy Ghost All which places evidently shew that the children of believing Christians have as much right to baptism as the children of the Jews had to Circumcision unless we should say that the Lord was more gratious to the Jews then he is to us Christians and that the hand of his mercy is shortned to us which was so much stretched out to them If their Children were in Covenant with God as it is evident they were Deut. 29.11 then are the Children of Christians under the same priviledge unless any man can give a good reason to the contrary which must be drawn either froÌ„ the Mercy or Judgment of God There is no shew of reason to say 't was from his Judgment much less from his Mercy for who dare say 't is a mercy not to be in Covenant with God To these Texts of Scripture we may add the practise of the Catholick Church for Fifteen hundred years as appears by the writers in their several Centuries which is the best Commentary upon the Scripture The Fathers who lived in the first ages of the Church had a fairer oâ—poâ—tunity to understand the meaning of the Apoâ—tles and their immediate successors then we that live at so great a distance Tertullian one of the most Ancient of them confesseth the practise of Infant Baptism tho he does not approvâ— it Cyprian and Fidus would never have contendeâ— about the â—ircumstance of time if they had doubted of the lawfulness of the thing I mâ—y add to what has been said Either the Baptising of Infants is a small error or 't is a great and gross one if iâ— be but a small error an error of Charity towards poor Infants why did the Anaâ—apâ—iâ—ts in the late times of confusion separate from those Churches which did not impose it as a necessary conâ—ition of Communion with them If it be a great and gross one then the Catholick Church has maintained a gross error for Fifteen hundred years and upward How then was that promise made good unto it that Christs spirit should lead it into all truth and that the gates of Hell should not prevail against it Dub. Indeed those Texts of Scripture so well explained by the practise of the Catholick Church â—or so many years since the time of the Apostles is an evident argument for the proof of Infant Baptism but are you certain that Infant Baptism was practised in the Primitive times Firm. We are most certain from the writings of the Fathers in those times Irenaeus lib. 2. cap. 39. Origen lib. 5. in cap. 6. ad Rom. Cyprian lib. 3. Epist. 8. ad â—idum Hieronymus lib. 3. contra Pelagianos Nazian Oraâ—iones in sacrum lavacrum Basil Orat. Exhort ad Baptismum Chrisost. Homil. 1. ad Neophyr Augustine lib. 10. de Gen. cap. 23. The custome of Baptising Infants is an Apostolical Tradition lib. 4. de Baptismo cap. 24. idem affâ—rmat Prosper lib. 22. de Vocatione Geâ—tium cap. 8. These three Fathers making use of the Baptising of Infants as an argument against the Pelagians who denyed Original Sin which practise of Infant Baptism these subtile Hereticks durst never deny because they knew 't was the practise of the Catholick Church Dub. 'T is strange thâ—t so mâ—ny Testimonies of the Antient Doctors of the Church with such evident places of Scripture before allegd should not silence these perverse men Firm. By terming them perverse you render a just reason why neither Scripture nor Fathers nor Arguments â—ill satisfie them few of this Sect or indeed of any other are Leâ—rned except it be their Leaders Popish Priests and Jesuits which spread such errors by design to make divisions among us that they might â—eign Now 't is no strang thing to see ignorance and perversness to dwell under the â—ame roof for whosoever is capable of Conviction must have some knowledg and reason that he may be able to understand the force of an argument when 't is proposed unto him as seduced Sectaries being men of very short discourse do not Besides that little portion of reason which remains in them is so beclouded with selâ—conceit interest and faction prejudice pride and uncharitableness thâ—t they have utterly loâ—t all use of it He that doubts of this let him discourse either with Quaker or Anabaptist and he will find them a very proud ignorant conceited perverse people Dub. I have sufficient experience of their Pride and Perversness
before intimâ—ted although under other names and I do somwhat wonder that neither Bishop Dean or Ganon so far as I know has hitherto vindicated these Churches from those reproaches which have been cast upon them by ignorant spitefull sacrilegious persons Dub. But do not we see that Bishops Deans and Canons do not joyn together in the goverment of the Church but rather are at variance and oppose one another are mostly Non-resident keep not that Hospitality which their Predecessors usually did and therefore they being thus useless 't were fit their lands were sold and imployed to better purposes Firm. This was your second exception against Cathedrals but a very frivelous one drawn from the worst Topick from personal abuses to take a way the true use of the thing it selfe This is meer Clowns Logick and makes as much against Parish Churcheâ— Schools Universities and all Courts of Justice as against Cathedrals The abuses ought to be taken away I am as much for a reformation as any man but not for an extirpation If Bishops Deans and Chapters do not joyn together in the Goverment of the Church 't is the fault of their Persons not of their Institution Deans and Canons ought to be of Councel to the Bishop in a subordinate way not to have cordinate power and Authority with him If they are too much guilty of non-residence as it cannot be denyed but that many of them are this ought to be reformd by Mulcts and Punishments but especially by those that have the power of collating those dignities that they do not confer them upon any person that lives out of the Diocess or at too great a distance from the Cathedral which is a very great abuse and wants Reformation As for the keeping of Hospitality the cavil is just the same which the Egiptyans had against the Isralits for not fulfilling their tale of Brick when they denyed them straw to make it Sacrilegious hands have Robbed Cathedrals of many of their rich Mannors and how should it be possible for Deans and Prebends to maintain that Hospitality which their Predecessors heretofore have kept I know a Canon of one of the most Auntient Cathedrals in England that his necessary expences in his Residence journeys being deducted did not receive de claro five pounds yearly for seven years in twelve Now according to the law of God and nature Families Wives and Children must be provided for and how can such necessary provision and any considerable Hospitality stand together out of an Hundred Marks or an Hundred Pounds of yeary Income which is more then some Cathedral Residentaries do receive to my knowledge I wish that those of the Gentry who have their Thousands of yearly Revenues would forbear their squandring away of their Rich Patrymonies in vanities and very sinful courses that they would keep Hospitality and Residence upon their own Rich Mannors amongst their poor Tenants and Neighbours who eat the Bread of carefulness and then they might with greater confidence câ—vil at the non-residence and wâ—nt of Hospitality in the â—lergy The best way to pull out the Moth which they discover in the Churches eye is first of â—ll to cast out the Beam which is in their own eye Second Whereas you object that Cathedral dignities are made subservient to the pride and luxury of the Idle and lazy Ministers my reply shall be very short If any such be â—rept into such places I shall not be their advocate but be ready to throw the first Stone at them But I pray you do not cast such dirt upon those who have laboured in the word and doctrine but esteem them worthy of double honor however the infirmities of old age have now seized upon them dimness of sight weakness of memory an hoarse voice and feeble lungs If these Cathedral perferments be great encouragements to younger men which none but Fools and Sacrilegious persons will deny VVhy may not such places be as so many Ecclesiastical Hospitals for these Milites emiriti old souldiers of Jesus Christ who have war'd a good warfare and though now they are less able to teach in the Pulpit yet may they instruct out of it by their grave and exemplary lives and sage councels 1. Tim. 5.17 Let the Elders that rule well 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 be worthy of double honor Dub. I beg your pardon for those hasty words that dropt from me against Cathedrals I clearly understand they are not so useless as the ignorance envy and malice of some men would render them Let me hear from you how you can vindicate them from defrauding Parochial Churches of their Tithes and Glebs by appropriating them to themselves Firm. This exception cannot totally be avoided yet Cathedrals are not so much in fault as the Supream power of the land which took away their rich Mannors and gave them in their stead lean and scandalous Impropriations which as some say was done in policy to prevent their total abolition which fate Abbies and Priories had lately sufferred under for those rich Mannors being exchanged for poor Impropriations Cathedrals were not now so sweet and lushious morsels to sacrilegious palates Dub. But is there no meanes to augment the maintenance of those Churches whose Tithes are Impropriate to Cathedrals Firm. At his Majesties happy Restauration there was a fair opportunity which offerred it self the like we cannot expect How easie had it been then to have setled a competent maintenance upon most Churches in the Nation Some augmentations by his Majesties appointment were then made I wish there had been more I know no other way to redress this grievance but by annexing some Prebends unto the Vicaridges of these Impropriated Churches which might be done in Cathedrals of the old Foundation where there are minor Prebendaries distinct from Residentiaries mean while those Parochial Churches are supplyed mostly by the Vicars Choral whose maintenance from their Colledge and privy Tithes received from those Churches where they serve is not contemptible I wish 't were better and that some of them by their industry and conscientious diligence in their Ministry did deserve a better subsistance at which wish no man can take exceptions but he that is guilty of ignorance or negligence in the duty of his calling which is his fault in being so and not mine in wishing it should be otherwise Dub. I perceive by your discourse that 't is rather the unhappiness then the fault of Cathedrals that Parochial Tithes are appropriated unto them but certainly iâ— Canons Residentiaries were Beneficed in or near the Citties where Cathedrals are scituate and a competent maintenance allowed them from the respective Cittizens the Vicars Choral those of them who are not Preachers might assist as Curates for Baptizings Burials and other inferiour Offices and so by the continual residence of the Bishops Deanes Canons and Vicars Choral the Chore service Preaching Catechizing Church discipline and Goverment might be much better performed then
now it is and those scandals and reproaches which are so frequently cast upon Cathedrals more rationally be confuted Firm. I much approve of what you say for the Non-residency of Bishops Deans and Canons and the remote Vicaridges of Vicars Choral from their respective Cathedrals is the just occasion that the service of God is very perfunctorily performed to the great scandal of the Goverment of the Church which we can look upon as a grieveance but 't is only in the power of King and Parliament to redress Dub. The Lord put it into their hearts to undertake so good and pious a work â—et me now hear what you can answer to what is objected against the Lives aâ—e Conversations of Vicars Choral Petty Canons Singing-men as they are setled in some Cathedrals Eiruâ— My answer is That the charge is too general and favours of want of Charity That some of them may be such whose conversation is not so commendable as it should be or that they have not that sense and relish of â—eligion which ought to be in men of that Place and Calling I fear may too justly be charged upon them but much of this dirt might be wiped off by the constant Residence grave Example and strict Discipline of those to whom the goverment of the Church belongs 'T is confessed that through the corruption of our natures the best duties frequently perform'd are apt to degenerate into cold and airy formalities 'T is the great happiness of those Christians which dwel near Cathedrals that they may meet Three tâ—mes a day Evening Morning and Noon to offer up prayer and praises to the High and Holy God but 't is very much to be lamented that Cittizens and others not hindred by necessarie occasions should be so frequently absent from these solemn Assemblies as usually they are It is yet more to be lamented that those whose duty it is to officiate at those solemn services should look upon them as a pâ—nsum a task a burden as naughty boyes at school do their lessons how far are such stupid souls from holy David's zeal and piety One thing saith that good King Psal. 22.4 have I desired of the Lord which I shall seek after that I may dwel in the house of the Lord all the daies of my life to behold the beauty of the Lord and to enquire in his Temple Want of sense zeal at holy Offices is not the fault of Chore or Quire service but of those that Officiate who if they will seriously fix their hearts upon those holy duties when they sing and give praise as David did attending to the matter of their heavenly and ravishing Anthems as well as to the Musick they would not look â—pon the service as a burden but as a blessed opportunity thus to praise Almighty God in the beauty of Holyness Dub. Happily it might be so to those who understood those Anthems but I have heard some say that the singing in Chores is to them much like a Latine service they knowing not what is sung Firm. This is your Fift Exception and 't is indeed a very weak one there being none who frequent this service but know very well what is sung unless it be the full Anthem let those that make this objection frequent this service and then they will be ashamed of so frivelous a Cavile and easily perceive the fault to have been in themselves and not in the service Dub. There is one exception yet behind against your Chore service as the use of Musicall Instruments in the performance of a great part of it which are said to be Levitical and therefore unlawful under the Gospel as we have seen in the Geneva Notes upon the last Psalm as also in Aquinas Quest. 22.9 19. and divers other Learned Men. Firm. This is a very gross mistake for Musical Instruments are not part of the Levitical law never instituted by Moses who was so faithful a servant in his trust that he would not have omitted to enjoyn them had they been given him in Charge by Allmighty God They were in use long before Moses presently after the Creation of the world for Gen. 4. we read that the rare gift of playing on Musical Instruments was given to Iubal Can we imagine that such a gift was bestowed on him to Stir up wantonness and lust by the more artificial singing of unsavory Sonnets Or is it not more rational to conceive that this skil in Musick was given to men to Sing forth the Praises of our great Creator in a more excellent manner When we Glorify the Lord we ought to exalt him as much as we can Ecclesiasticus 43.30 And surely if Musick has a natural influence upon our affections to Stir up and quicken them in wantoness and daliance certainly it may work the same effect upon them to quicken and enliven them in a more devout and intensive Praising of Almighty God in all those that have a Religious tendency and a serious disposition to his worship and service besides seing 't is a moral and perpetual duty to shew forth the Praises of God all rational men will consent that this ought to be performed after the best manner and consequently with such skil and are that has the greatest influence upon our affections rather then after such a manner which renders the service of God mean and contemptible as 't is rendred in many of our Parochial Churches Dub. You have fully satisfied me that Musical Instruments in the service of God are not Levitical but are natural means to Stir up the affections in these sacred Hyms and Anthems Nevertheless I have heard that many who are much taken with Chore Anthems are much offended at the manner of reading of Prayers in Cathedrals when they pray for the Sick they use the ordinary tone which is used in Parish Churches at other times they pronounce their Prayers in a middle way between Reading and Singing Which seems to be not so grave and sutable to the Solemnity of Prayer Firm. I confess this is a common objection and some that are no enimies to Cathedral service have in this much desired a reformation but this must be left to the prudence of those that set at the Serne mean while we ought not to condemn the Quireservice for this seeming indecency well knowing that the stress of Religious duties does not consist in the toning and modulation of the voice but in the Musick of the heart and affections in a serious and devout fixing of the mind upon the things that are Read or Sung the want of which in those who Read Prayers or Sing Anthems is no little sin and one main reason why some of our Singing-men are not so seriously devout as they ought to be really those that are frequently present officiating in holy duties unpreparedly carelessly formally and irreverently by Gods just judgment may be given up to a senceless stupidity for their prophanation of the holy ordinances of God Dub. 'T
Firm. As the Kingdom of Heaven does not consist in Meats and Drinks but in Righteousness and peace Rom. 14. so neither does it consist in gestures vestures or any thing that is in it self indifferent when the Church commands us to wear such a vestment or to use such a gesture for Uniformity sake and outward decency not placing any intrinsecal Holiness or absolute necessity in any of those Ceremonies 't is our duty and not any superstition at all to be obedient yea we are guilty of the sin of disobedience and superstition also if we stand out against lawfull Authority For there is a two fold Superstition one Positive as when we ascribe Holiness to any thing that is in its own nature indifferent morrally neither good nor evil another Negative as when we Dogmatize and call that evil which Morally is not so and in such things Weare not Kneel not is as much Superstition as Weare or Kneel possibly can be What is it to any understanding man whether he Prayes or Preaches in Black or White or any other Colour unless it be for decency and uniformity the power of the Church limits us to a White Surplice rather then to a Black Iump or short Cloak Dub. But is not this an intrenchment upon our Christian liberty to be confind to particular Modes and Forms Firm. Not at all So long as our practice only is limited and our judgment left free as before any such Canon was made 't is strang that the same men who enjoyned three Ceremonies at the taking of the Covenant as to be bare Headed bare Handed the right Hand lifted up should so much scruple them in our Publick Service But in a word 't is plain Scripture that every Soul should be subject to the Higher Powers not onely for wrath but also for Conscience sake Now unless the Non-Conformists can bring as plain Scripture against our Ceremonies to prove them morally evil they must incurr the sin of Schisme and disobedience to those powers which God has ordained and these are far greater sins then the wearing of a Surplice though we had borrow'd it from the Pope himself Dub. You mind me now of one of the greatest exceptions against the Surplice c. because the Papists use it in their superstitious Worship therefore 't is unlawful for us to wear it in ours Firm. If this were a good reason 't would follow whatsoever the Papists do use or have abused in their Superstition 't is unlawful for us who have abandoned such trash and I rumpery to use but Papists have abused our Churches halices and other Ornaments in their fals Worship and Services therefore we may not use them but down with them down with them even to the Ground Dub. This indeed will be a very necessary consequent but a very costly one I fear the men that make this exception would not be very forward to Build them up again if Idolatry and Superstition were a just cause to make us lay aside our Surplices by the same reason we must pull down our Churches and upon the same accompt the Primitive Christians ought not to have eaten meat offered to Idols neither to have made use of the Heathens Tempels to celebrate the Worship and Service of the true God Firm. You see then how frivilous the exception against the Surplice is and so are all those that are offer'd against the Ring in Marriage bowing at the name of Jesus Kneeling at the Sacrament the Crosse after Baptisme and therefore I shall very briefly pass them over 1. For the Ring 't is as Antient at least as Turtullian who lived about two hundred Years after Christ he makes mention of it more then once and our Church do's use it as an ancient Ceremony no ways essential to Matrimony 2. Bowing at the name of Jesus is likewise very Antient The reason of it was 1. To shew our readiness to yield obedience and subjection to him as our Lord and King to whom all power both in Heaven and Earth is given and to whom every Knee must bow Phil. 2.10 The Antient Christians rather bowed at the naming of Jesus then at the name of Christ in opposition to the unbelieving Jews who most of all Blasphemed that sweet and saving name of Jesus which therefore they did indeavour the more highly to exalt 3. To declare their certain belief of what the Apostle foreteâ—â— that at the name of Iesus every Knee should bow of things in Heaven things in Earth and things under the Earth that all things should be subject unto him Phil. 2. 3. Kneeling at the Sacrament our Church conceives to be the most humble and reverend posture and therefore most suitable to so high and Heavenly a Mistery especially it being Administred with a Prayer yet we do not condemn the practise of other Churches where this holy Sacrament is received sitting or standing neither should they condemn us for Kneeling because Christ's Disciples receiv'd it in a Table gesture to which we are no more bound then to the place or time in which they reciv'd it An upper Room and after Supper as the learned Dr. Sanderson has evidently demonstrated 4. The Cross after Baptisme is also a very Antient Ceremony which the Christians of the first ages used in a couragious and undaunted opposition against the Heathens and Jews who scoffed and derided them for beleiving in and Worshiping a Crucified God for their Saviour who could not save himself True 't is in process of time the Cross was abused to grose Superstition and therefore say some it ought to be laid aside as Ezekias abollished the Brasen Serpent when the people made it an Idol Dub. Much more ought the Cross to be taken away being abused to superstition because 't was but an humane invention where as the Brasen Serpent was set up by Gods own direction and command Firm. Very true but then let Ezekias do it not the people on their own heads without the Authority of the King However the use of an innocent Ceremony ought not to be taken away because of ' its abuse and here it ought to be consider'd whether it be better to use the Cross to put us in mind of our duty not to be ashamed of Christ Crusifi'd as also of the courage and boldness of the Primitive Christians who not withstanding the Scoffs and Reproches of Infidels would make such open profession of their Faith in Christ Crucified as to use the sign of the Cross not only in Baptism but also upon sundry other occasions or else whether 't were better to forbear the use of it because it has been so much abused to Superstition let the Suprem power judge which of these is fittest to be done and determine accordingly either for the Negative or the Affirmative and I believe every sober and peacable Christian will esteem it his duty to submit unto such a determination Dub. But seing these and other ceremonies have been and are a great scandal to
but leaving them to their own simple fancyes Enthusiasms let us proceed to the Presbyterians to which party I first adhered when I forsook the Church of England and and of all dissenters from thâ—t Church in my opinion they have the greatest shew of reason for their separation Firm. In my judgment they have less reason to separate then any other because they agree with us in Doctrinals and are divided from us because of some Ceremonies which are confessedly things indifferent and for some modes of Government viz. the Episcopal and Presbyterian of which tho the former be the best and most antient yet learned and most moderate men of both parties do acknowledg that neither of these Forms of Government are so essential to the being of a Church but that it may subsist and be a true Church under either of them potius ad bene esse quam simpliciter ad esse but more of this hereafter But before we begin our discourse about Presbyterie let us speak a few things concerning Independency for I have heard that you were somtimes of that perswasion Dub. True I was once an Independent or Congregational man buâ— seeing all Sectaries are in respect of Church fellowship Independeâ—ts and that these men for the most part have the same objections against the Church of England as the Independents make use of I thought it superfluous to trouble you with any particular discourse â—oncerning them Firm. There are Three things belonging to Independency which we have not discoursed upon as yet neither will they properly fall under debate in our intended Dialogue about Presbyterie if you please we will take a breif survey of them Dub. I willingly embrace this motion DIALOGUE VI Against Independency Firm. THe first thing that I except against in the Independency is the goverment practised in their particular Congregations without any jurisdiction one over another so that every of their Assemblies is absolute within it self without depending upon any Classical Diocesian Provincial National Church or general Counsel whence they have the name of Independents Dub. Is it true that they will noâ— admit oâ— any Superior power over their respective Congregâ—tions nor appeal in case of divisions among themselves unjust and injurious sentences given in their partial Judicatories Firm. They admit of no appeals or no coercive poâ—er over them in any Consistories Classis or Counsel One Congregational â—hurch may advise exhort or admonish another as brethren or equals but not punish or correct as Judges oâ— Superiors What do you say to this new knack of Church Government Dub. I think it to be Anarchical and confused the Natural Parent of all Schisms and Hereses I do not noâ— so much wonder how England of late years since this headless faction prevaild amongst us became a second Amsterdam What error what heresy so gross so damnable what injustice what oppression never so greivous which might not go unpunisht in such assemblys from which there lies no appeal how must they be broken into infinite fractions especially where the fear of a Common enemy does not unite and peice them together Firm. You rightly apprehend for all these dangers and inconveniences are the necessary consequents of Independent Congregations where any Popish Wolf in Sheeps Cloathing has a fair opportunity to sow the seeds of Anabaptism Quaquerism Socianism or any poysonous Heresy whatsoever to spread the principles of Sedetion and treason as has been of late to much practised in this Nation I wish such Tares be not still scattered in our separating Conventicles to this very day 'T was the observation of Sir Rob. Cotton above three-score yeaâ—s since that Priests and Jesuits did put on the habits of Captains Merchants c. that that they might deceive poor ignorant people under that disguise opera Posthu Pag. 148. Dub. You have said enough against this headless Church Goverment and the sad consequences of it I pray you proceed to the second thing you promised to debate concerning Independency Firm. The second error does concern tiths which generaly the Independents with other sectarys would perswade the world are a great oppression upon the people meerly Levitical and not due or lawfull under the Gospel Dub. I desire to hear from you what may be replyed to these cavils for I believe they are no better Firm. The paying of Tiths is no oppression upon the people no injury to them at all for if no free-holder Farmer or Tenant whatsoever ha's any legal or equitable right â—r title to the tenth part by purchase donation inheritance lease or by any other imaginable conveiance then the paying of Tiths can be no injury at all but the free holder Farmer or Purchaser ha's no legal right to the tenth part no more then the Minister has to the other nine because for many hundred years it has been invested in the Church by as good laws as any layman has right or title to the free hold Farm or lease which he has Purchased or pays rent for so that the tenth part cannot discend to any mâ—n by inheritance gift or puchase neither does any Tenant pay one Penny of rent to his Land lord for that part of the increase of Fruits Grain Grass or any other Commodity whatsoever Dub. Truly Sir I have heard as much and if Tithes were taken from the Church no question Landlords would raise their Rents and Fines and Purchasers would quickly find the price of land rais'd proportionably to a tenth part Firm. This is so plain that nothing but gross ignorance Envy and Malice against the Clergy can entertain the least doubt of it Dub. Sir you put me in mind of one thing which I have often thought upon and much wonderd at that generally those that go under the nâ—me of Protestants in your Church have little respect for their Ministers whereas Papists and Presbyterians shew great respect to theirs Firm. You need not wonder at it the true reason of this contempt is for want of Zeale to that Religion which thâ—y profess whereâ—s Papists and Presbyterians are Zealous in theirs But your meer formal Protestants of which number there are too many is a formal nothing one that is so far from the power of Godliness that he has not the naked formality of it Now there cannot be a greater sign of an irreligious Atheist then contempt of the Clergy for where they are despised God cannot be honoured nor Religion had in esteem if the Gentleman that has assigned reasons for the Contempt of the Clergy had thought on this t' would have been worth all the reasons in his whole Book but it may be he was so much a stranger to his own heart that he thought not of it Dub. But are not many Ministers themselves a chief cause that they are so contemned Firm. I was about to tell you so 't is much to be be wailed that too many in holy orders are through ignorance negligence in the duties of their calling loosness in
their lives and conversations very scandalous the greatest Nonconformists of all others not true to our Church and her injunctions in the most weighty matters placing all their Conformity in outward Ceremonies and neglecting what is most necessary for their own salvation and of those poor Souls which are committed to their charge which are in great danger to perish through the ignorance negligence and evil example of such blind guids Dub. But is not the poverty of many of them and the poor pittances allotted for their subsistence as great a cause of their contempt as any Firm. 'T is very true and 't were a work worthy of the Defendor of the Faith and a Religious Parliament to redress this very great grievance by uniting Little Churches by finding out some effectual means for restoring of Impropriate Tithes and Glebs to their respective Ministers which Impropriations are the very dregs of Popery and a grand Sacriledge in any one that shall detain them from the Church Dub. I do a little wonder why you should câ—ll Impropriations Popish seeing many of those who took up arms against King Charles the First diâ— it upon thâ— account of opposing Popery and hindering the groâ—th of iâ— in this â—â—nd and yet some of them are no â—mall Iâ—pâ—opâ—iaâ—ors Firm. Certainly there was never a more manifest peicâ— of hypocrisy in the world for men to be so seemingly zealous against the superstitions of Rome and yet be so deeply in love with her Sacriledge Surâ—ly there is some marvellous sweetness in Tiths and Church lands that prelatical Presbyteâ—ians all parties can swallow down such morsels without any scruple but let them take heed they prove not like that little Book Rev. 10.9 sweet to the palate but bitter in the belly Dub. Indeed I have heard that the Popes of Rome were the first and cheifest Authors of Impropriations and that they did alienate Tiâ—hs and Glebes from their respected Parish Churches for the maintenance of Abbies Priories Nunneries c. Firm. 'T is veâ—y certain that these alienations were made by the Authority of the Bishop of Rome for those uses and at the demolishing of those places those Impropriate Tiths and Church lands were either given or sold to Courtiers and other of the Nobility and Gentry which has proved the ruine of many Antient and flourishing Families and a very great hinderance to the growth of Religion for want of an able Ministry in many poor Parishes where according to the old saying Scandalous livings have made a scandalous Clergy and nothing would be a more effectual redress of this grievance then as was said before the Uniting of litle Parishes the restoring of Impropriate Tiths and Glebes to the Church together with a diligent inspection of the Bishops into the lives and learning of all those whom they shall either Ordain or Institute Dub. I am fully perswaded that the paying of Tiths is no oppression or injury to any man but the Independents and other Sectaries imagine that Tiths are a Levitical maintenance and therefore to be abrogated under the Gospel that Ministers now are to be maintain'd by a voluntary Contribution or at best to have a set stipend Firm. That Tiths received not their beginning from the Levitical Law is evident to any unbyased judgment from the example of Abrahams paying them to Melchisedeck of Iacobs vowing to give the Tenth of all that the Lord should bless him with from the Apostles large discourse about Abraham and Melchisedeck Heb. 7. By all which 't is evident that Tiths had not their Original from the Levitical â—aw and were not at first affixt to the Arâ—nical but to the Melchisedechian Priesthood As to that of Stipend and Voluntary Contribution 't is a meer plot of the Devil and Popish Emissaries to render Ministers contemptible by â—aking them Stipendiaries or Eleemosynaries directly contrary to what St. Paul has laid down The Elders that rule well are worthy of double honor which sufficiently evinceth that they ought to have an honorable maintainance and not to depend upon the cold and frozen Charity of the people I am sure St. Paul found his Corinthians very backward to supply the Ministers necessity in better times then these we live in like so many Stipendaries or Alms-men by which they will be forceâ— to Preach placentia or starve and suit their Doctrine to the humor of every Mechanick What a strange piece of non-sense is it that amongst our Congregational men the Minister should be the only poor Dependent 'T is most certain and evident to all that can make use of their reason that Gods way for the Ministers maintenance is the best which both before and under the Law given by Moses was by Tiths at least by God's approving of Abâ—aham's paying them to Melchisedeck ' â—was strongly insinuated that the great Lord of Heaven and Earth would in after times order and appoint that Tiths should be the maintenance for the Priest and Levite which has continued for many hundreds of years under the Gospel and there are many fair proofs from holy Scripture that they are due by Divine Right they are established by Civil and Ecclesiastical Laws are the most convenient and rational way for the Ministers support who by this meanes when the earth brings forth plenâ—ifully shares with the people in that blessing when less fruitfully as in times of scarcity suffers with them in this Calamity and thus partaking with them in blessings and affliâ—â—ions will be the fitter to Stir them up thankfulneâ—sâ— for the one and to press upon them the great duties of Patience and Humiliation under the other Dub. I did not doubt of the lawfulness and reasonableness of Tiths before we entred upon this discourse but now there is not the least scruple in me concerning them Firm. Therefore let us now proceed to another gross error maintaind by the Independents and other Sectaries about the electing of gifted Brethren into the office of Ministers Dub. That any gifted Brother any one that perswades himself that he has the Spirit and through a strong imagination conceives himself fit to Speak in the Congregation may without any farther tryal or lawfull call take upon him the office of Publick Preaching and Ministring in the Congregation which is the most sacred and weighty of of all other This is nothing less then a presumptuous usruping of the Priests office This I know to be the Opinion and practise of Independents and other Sectareis let me have your judgment of it Firm. That you shall most willingly And herein my judgment is that this is one of the most wild and Fanatick opinions that ever entred into the minds of men that it opens a wide gap to all Schisms and Heresies a certain cause of all manner of disorder and confusions in the Church upon this account Priests and Jesuits and all manner of Sectaries have had so fair an oppâ—rtunity to vent their poysonous Tenents in theâ—â— Independent Congregations Dub. I am fully