of the Sabbath c. and others against these If not Is not difference in such Doctrines as great a difference as using and not useing some of your Liturgick Forms and Ceremonies IV. Are all different modes of Worship enough to make our Party Separatists Then the French and Dutch Churches are Separatists and either the Cathedrals or the Parish-Churches as to their Vestments Organs Chore mode of Singing c. And the allowed private Baptismes and Communion with the sick are Separations V. Doth every disobedience to the King and Laws and Canons in matters of Religion Government and Worship make men Separatists If so then when ever a Conformist disobediently shortneth his Common-Prayer or leaveth off his Surplice or giveth the Sacrament to one that kneeleth not or receiveth one of another Parish to Communion c. he is a separatist Yea no man then is not a Separatist sometimes VI. If the Diocesane be the lowest political Church and a Parish but a part of a Church as they hold that take a Bishop to be a Constitutive part how is he said to separate from the Church that owneth his Diocesane and the Diocess what ever place in that Diocess he meet in seeing he separateth not from the Kingdom that stayeth in it and owneth the King though in some acts he disobey Nor doth every Boy that is faulty separate from the School VII Is he a greater Separatist that confesseth you to be a true Church and your communion lawful but preferreth another as fitter for him or he that denieth Communion with true worshiping assemblies as unlawful to be Communicated with when it is not so If the former then Condemning you as no Church is a diminution or no aggravation of separation and the Local presence of an Infidel or a Scorner would be a less separate state than the absence of your friends If the latter which is certain then if I can prove the Assemblies lawful which you condemne you are the true Separatists that condemn them and deny Communion with them and declare such Communion to be unlawful I Communicate with your Assemblies and you utterly shun refuse and condemn Communion with ours which then is the Separatist if I prove ours to be as good as yours VIII Many English Doctors say Rome is a true Church as a Knave or Thief is a true man and we separated not from It but they cast Us out for doing our duty and not sinning as they do I say not as they for as the Pope claimeth the Headship of the Church Universally that form of Policy is not of God and we separate from that essencial form of their pretended Church But ad hominem if the Diocesane also be a true Church and we cast out of it for not sinning are We separatists or are our Ejectors such IX I have shewed you that the Canons Excommunicate ipso facto all that say the imposed Conformity is unlawful If this be unjust is it Separation to be so Excommunicated and who is the Schismatick here And what shall be thought of such Church-men as will first ipso facto Excommunicate us for our duty and then as you do call us Separatists Would you have Excommunicate Men Communicate with you I and many do so because you shall be the Executioners of your own sentence and not I But with what face can men cast Men out by Canon ipso facto and then revile them for not coming in You can mean no other in common sense but that we are Schismaticks or separatists because we are not of the Conformist's judgment And that is not in our power And you differ more in judgment in greater matters from each other and yet call it not Schisme or Separation Yea you differ about the very essential form of your National Church one part taking it to be the Kings supremacy and another to be the Bishops or Clergy's Power And therefore you cannot be truly of one National Church that are not for one essential Form X. If men be wrongfully Excommunicate are they thereby absolved from all publick Worshipping of God or do they lose their Right to all Church-Communion I have else where cited you Canons enow that say the contrary and that Clave Errante the excommunication huâ—teth none but the Excommunicator And I have Cited Bishop Tailor 's Full Consent Must we not then Meet and Worship as we can when you wrongfully Excommunicate us XI Are not the Laity by your Canon forbidden to Receive the Sacrament in another Parish or any other to receive them if they dare not Receive it from a Non-Preaching Minister at Home And if the People judge that he that is unable or unwilling to Preach or that is a Heretick or that liveth in such heinous Sins or Preacheth Malignantly as to do more Harm than Good may not lawfully be owned by them for Christ's Ministers nor their Souls be Committed to their Pastoral Trust Must they therefore be without a Pastors Care or all Publick Worship and Communion and be Condemned for being Wronged XII Were all those Councils Separatists that Decreed That none shall hear Mass from a Fornicating Priest And Were the Canons called the Apostles and the Greek-Church that used them for Separation that said Episcopus ignorantiâ aut malo animo opplotus non est Episcopus sed falsus Episcopus non a Dee sed ab hominibus promotus Was Guildas a Separatist that told the Brittish Wicked Priests That they were not Christ's Ministers but Traitours and that he was not Eximius Christianus that would call them Priests or Ministers of Christ Were Cyprian and all the Carthage-Council Separatists that wrote the Epistle about Martial and Basilides which I Translated and told the People It was their Duty to Separate from Peccatore Praeposito a Scandalous Prelate and that the Chief Power was in them to Choose the Worthy or Refuse the Unworthy and that they were guilty of Sin if they joyned with such Sinners Who made You a more Reverend and Credible Judge of Separation than Cyprian and this Council At least Who will think that you may Judge them Separatists or guilty of Schism XIII Are not the Laity by your Canon to be denied the Sacrament if they be not willing of your Episcopal Confirmation And when Imposition of Hands is made the Signe by which Confirming or Assuring Grace is conveyed and some Bishops assigne no less to it they fear lest it be made a Sacrament Be their Doubts just or not they cannot overcome them And Must they therefore Live without Sacramental Communion By what Law XIV Are not the Laity that dare not Receive the Sacrament Kneeling for the Reasons else-where mentioned to be denied the Sacrament by your Rule And though herein they fear Sin more than they have cause Must they that cannot Change their own Judgments live all their Dayes without the Sacrament When as General Councils Decreed That none should adore Kneeling on any Lord's Day and the Church for a
would be so bad in us but also to accuse us so publickly to Magistrates for not forbearing to preach the Gospel when we were solemnly devoted to it and pleading against the toleration of it when Non-toleration must be by Imprisonment Banishment or Death or such Disablement against such as believe they are bound to preach while they are able § 5. Yet you can tell that they are ill Men that reported you stir up Magistrates to Persecution If that much will prove it it 's like they will be emboldened to call you an ill Man too for such faults are so common that we may say as Seneca Quid ulcus leviter tangam omnes mali sumus Indeed they do not well that use that word Persecution when your words are but against Toleration and the Church of England ' s endeavour after Vniformity which are publickly known § 6. And no wonder if they are ill Men when you are but finding out a certain Foundation for a lasting Vnion which is impossibâ—e to be attained till Men are convinced of the evil and danger of the present Separation c. That is you are but proving our Union impossible for I have elsewhere proved that the Conviction which you speak of is morally impossible to become the terms of a common Union It is impossible that we should all be convinced that none of the Particulars imposed are sinful which I have named in my first Plea And secondly 't is as impossible that we should all be convinced that it is any more lawful for us to forsake our Ministry to which we were vowed in our Ordination than to break our Oath of Allegiance and deny our Duty to the King So that you do no worse than for Union to prove our Union impossible and who is it that makes it so § 7. And this Impossibility you infer from this Principle That it is lawful to separate on a pretence of greater Purity where there is an agreement in Doctrine and the substantial parts of Worship Answ 1. Was there not this Agreement in the case of Cyprian and the Council who persuaded the People to separate from Martial and Basilides And is not Union possible with such as Cyprian and the Carthage Bishops 2. We that are accused by you do not say that we differ not from you in Doctrine absolutely viz. in the Doctrine about Diocesan Church-Forms or their imposing Power we never denied this difference But we say in the Doctrine of the 39 Articles as distinct from the Form of Government and imposed Abuses we agree And suppose that we agreed in such Doctrine and Worship with a Church that yet held only that the Pope is jure divino the Constitutive Vicarious Head of the Vniversal Church and would take none that confess it not for Christians were it a Sin to separate from that Church 3. Suppose that Usurpers should thrust out the Bishops and you and make themselves our Pastors against our wills is it unlawful to separate from them though they agree with us in Doctrine and Worship And if the Churches and Councils have been in the right which for 700 yea 1000 years held that the calling of a Bishop was null that had not the Clergies Election and the Peoples Election or Consent I need not tell you how far this will reach 4. What if a Church that you agree with in Doctrine and Worship will not receive you unless you will deliberately profess or subscribe an Untruth or covenant against some Duty or commit a known Sin is it intolerable for you rather to separate from them than to sin And must we have no Union till we can in all things think as you do § 8. I think you need not expect the Censures of the chief makers of our Divisions And as to the inferiour Sectaries if you are a Sacrifice it will be an unbloody one You well admonish us in the end not to complain too much when we are silenc'd impoverished and imprisoned The counsel is good But for the Dean of Pauls c. that is deservedly loved and honoured by us all whom you thus deal with and by those great Men whose esteem he deservedly more valueth while he liveth in this Plenty and Honour to call himself a Sacrifice if a few poor Men say He wrongeth them when he pleadeth against the Magistrates enduring them or against their Judgment that think they should be endured Doth not this seem to another greater tendency than for me only to say de facto I was laid in the Common Gaol and fain to make away my Goods and Library to save them from Distress But so much to your Epistle The Sermon followeth § 9. And what could a Man have desired more to end the main differences among us than the serious consideration of your Text in its very plain import and drift 1. That the Text speaketh for Unity and Concord is past question 2. And that it speaketh both to the Pastors and the Flocks 3. And that it speaketh to all Christians though of various degrees of Attainment And therefore requireth all to live in Concord that are Christians notwithstanding other differences 4. All the doubt is what is meant by the same Canon or Rule And there are these several Expositions pleaded for 1. That by the same Rule is meant only the General Concord idem velle nolle to agree and live in Peace and to mind the same things 2. That by the same Rule is meant the Essentials of Christianity received by all Christians which they should have concordantly practised notwithstanding other differences 3. That by the same Rule is meant the Doctrine which the Apostles had concordantly delivered to all the Churches 4. That it was the Churches Creed which is supposed then to be in use as the Symbol of Christians 5. That it is the Canonical Scriptures in the times that they were written and delivered to the Churches 6. That it is the Example of S. Paul before described or the matter of itâ— that is to hold fast what he had attained and press forwards towards the heavenly perfection by desire hope diligence and patience 7. Some take the one Rule to be the end as it is to be attained by the means that is the common good of the Church and furtherance of the Gospel and our Salvation Let all be done to edification 8. Some say that it is the great Duty of Love which is made the Rule for our undetermined actions or that the fundamental duties are made a Canon to the Superstructures as it seemeth to be meant Gal. 6. 15 16. And by Christ Go learn what that meaneth I will have mercy and not Sacrifice To tell you which and how many of these I take to be meant in the Text and why is none of the work which you call me to but to tell you that which-ever of these it is or if all these we fully consent All these Canons we must all walk by 9. But some say
are called Separatists but not if they play work or drink at home VI. Q. I am confident you know the need of many Curates in your own Parish for my part I profess I am so far from thinking my self capable of a Bishops work that I would not take many 1000 l. a Year to take the Pastoral Charge of your Parish without many assistants seeing then you and I as I see by your Treat of Satisfaction and other Doctrinal Books do Preach the same Doctrine and I perform but the part of a Curate or Assistant to you for nothing Why think you that it is worse than that so many be untaught VII Q. Do you not think that culpably to alienate an Ordained Minister Vowed to the Sacred Office is far worse sacriledge than to steal Church-plate or Moneys And that it must needs be so culpable either in our selves for not Conforming or for ceasing our works or else in those that hinder us VIII Q. What then is it that you would have us do when after our best endeavours we are no more able to see the Lawfulness of Conforming or forsaking our Calling than of many great notorious sins IX Q. Do you think that for qualification and number there are so many better than the silenced Ministers in the Land as may so far sâ—pply the Peoples wants as that 2000 such as we may better be spared than employed unless we can Conform X. Q. Are none of our Hearers more competent Judges than their Accusers what profiteth their own Souls And if the 〈◊〉 what is the great harm that such as I do that weighs down the Peoples profit while all your power is for edification and all your Churches that I come in are full XI Q. What is it in us that warranteth a humble 〈◊〉 to think that his Ministerial duty is so much better than ours that in comparison of his Ministry ours is unnecessary and we unsufferable in the Land Is it our ignorance or our wickedness that makes the difference so great I have studied many years longer than you though perhaps with less advantage We know nothing in the world that we prefer before the pleasing of God and edifying his Church Though you excel us do all others so My meaning is would you have none tolerated in England that are as ignorant and as bad as I Consideratis considerandis Doth bare Conforming make all this difference XII Q. And as I ask all these Questions for my self and earnestly intreat your Answer pardon me while in true love to you I put this Question to you for your self Whether do you think if you lived in the pain and as near the Grave as I do and by the sentence of death had the lively apprehensions of your account should you not tremble to think of becoming a Preacher against our Preaching and justifying or owning the silencing and ruining of so many hundred devoted Ministers of Christ who are no worse and for no worse Cause Such as truly desire to serve God as faithfully and diligently as your self and with as little respect to preferment riches applause or any worldly end And whether you will never wish that you had never put your hand to such a work as to argue with the Magistrate and harden others against the enduring of such mens labours even on the hard terms that we willingly perform them Sir Many importune me to publish an Answer to your Sermon 1. As to my self I am more concerned to crave your help for my conviction if I live in sin at so dear a rate even to my slesh 2. And as to you you have deserved so well of this Land especially for so stoutly opposing Popery at such a time and are so much loved and valued by us all that I would take tho-least provoking way us knowing what contention and exasperatiou tendeth to and how glad the Papists will be to turn your Pen from themselves and leave you and such as I together in a fruitless conflict waiting your Answer I rest May 29. 1680. Your unworthy fellow-servant Ri. Baxter Dr. Stillingfleet's Answer to Mr. Baxter's Letter SIR I Lately received a Letter from you wherein you complain of my exposing you to the Magistrates and the World as one guilty of sinful Separation whereas I never mentioned your name when I Preached and when I Printed the Sermon I have quoted it several times against Separation But if your meaning he that you think your self concerned in those practises which I charge with that guilt I should have been very glad to have found in your Letter an Answer to those Reasons in my Sermon which moved me to judg as I then did and still do concerning them Which in my opinion had been a far more likely way for your Conviction which you seem to desire in your Letter than my Answering those Queries you propose many of which do very little relate to the matter in debate between us What you mean by knowing their capacity for whom I preached and wrote I am not willing to understand but if I have any the single Question between you and me as to this matter is Whether tâ—e upholding Separate Meetings for Divine Worship where the Doctrine stablished and the substantial parts of Worship are acknowledged to be agreable to the Word of God be a sinful separation or not By separate Meetings I mean such as 〈◊〉 to a purer way of Worship and are kept up in opposition to the legal establishment of Religion among us And now Sir I pray consider First To what purpose I should resolve the Queries you make concerning our great Parishes since 1. The separate Meetings 〈◊〉 kept up in the City and adjoynenâ— places as Hackney Newingten c. without any regard to the greatness of Parishes or capacity of Churches 2. You cannot but know that the People do not go to them because they cannot find room in Churches but because they look upon the Worship of God as purer there 〈◊〉 our Parochâ—â—l Churches and most of those who frequent them would not come to the publick Worship were our Churches never so great or our Parishes nevâ—â— so small 3. The preaching in them is forbidden by Law which the greatness or smallness of our Parishes doth not make more or lâ—ss 〈…〉 unless those who preach in â—hem do Conform to the 〈◊〉 established and so I grant you the Tabeâ—â—acle in St. Martin's Parish is â—â—wah 〈◊〉 to the Parish-Church which before was a separate Meeting And I wonder a Person of your segacity should think to satisfie your self or others by such slight evasions as these which scarce any of my Auditors or Readers how mean soever their capaâ—â—ies were but could discern the weakness of them Secondly Others of your Queries relate to the Qualifications and number of the ejected Ministers and comparing their Gifts with Ours But what is all this to the business of Separation unless you suppose
and command in what words only every Pastor shall publickly pray to God and what Books and words of men he shall profess assent and consent to and what dedicating symbols of Christianity he shall use as engaging in the Christian Covenant and to command Ceremonies and Modes for dissent wherein he shall deny Baptism and Church-Communion to all dissenters though the things be taken to be indifferent by the Magistrate and great sins by the dissenters 3. And that all that obey not in all these but preach when forbidden or use other accidents or modes and choose other Pastors to â—e their Guides are Separatists and sin againg God II. On these grounds you judg me and such others sinful Separatists III. You justifie the executing of the Laws upon us and would have us silenced and such dissenters not endured It is our Conformity or our ceasing to preach which you plead for as the Cure § 6. I. As to your supposed ground 1. You know it 's like that in my first plea for peace I largely confuted it And could you think that without any reply your bare saying over the thing confuted could be any satisfaction to one of any sense or conscience 2. You cannot but know that the judgment and practice of the Uniyersal Church in East and West hath been against you not only for the first 300 years but for many hundred after Father Paul Sarpi after cited in his History of Church Revenues truly testifieth it I have proved it by many Canons and Histories in my Church History that he was to be taken as no Bishop that was chosen by Magistrates Prelates or any without the Clergies election and the Peoples election or consent Christians then took not this to be any part of the Princes trust but only to countenance the things that furthered Learning and Godliness and encourage the Clergy and People to choose the best and to protect and encourage and govern them by the sword when they were chosen This being past doubt were the Universal Church Separatists Is our Concent with the Universal Church or your singularity from it liker to Schism or Separation 3. I know that there are inconveniences in the Peoples consenting power and so there are in all humane affairs but not to be cured by pernicious mischiefs You will not tell me because you cannot tell me how we shall know what Magistrates they be that have this trust Whether Heathens Infidels Mahometans Socinians Arians Macedonians Eutkchians Monothelites Image-worshipers Papists Anabaptists or who and who must judge of their qualifications Yea were we sure that the Prince were Orthodox If he were but wicked debauched an enemy to serious practical piety as all wicked men naturally are inclined to be will not all such choose Bishops and Pastors like themselves what more natural than to propagate our like And will not wicked Bishops make wicked Priests And you know the Patron hath the choice with us and it 's a slender qualification which the Bishop hath power to require without a quare impedit An Atheist a Fornicator a drunkard a hater of holiness hath nevertheless the choice of a Priest for the Parish to whom all the People must entrust their Souls What a sad Case were the Christian World in if we may lawfully have no other Pastors than Gentlemen and Princes choose for us When Christ tells us how hard it is for the Rich to enter into the Kingdom of Heaven and how few of the Noble are called and in uno annulo c. is become a Proverb What a Case were Hungary Poland France Germany and the Greek Churches in if this were true 4. Personal power in man is the first Family power is the next City and Kingdom power supposeth these and cannot destroy them Hence subjects that are not meer slaves stand up to plead for their Personal and Domestick property liberty and power If my Money and Limbs and Life be not at the Patrons or the Princes will much less my Soul He is trusted with my Estate and Life but I am first and more trusted with them He may keep out ill Physitians from the Land and encourage the good but he hath no power to tie me to an ill Physitian nor to an ill Diet nor to ill Servants c. The choice of these belongeth to my self Much less can he on pretence of Parish-order tie me to an ignorant drunken Malignant or an unexperienced sapless Teacher that is to my Soul as a silly Emperick to my health Scripture and the Worlds experience tell how much God mâ—rrally giveth his light and grace according to the aptitude of means Habitus infusi se habent ad modum acquisitorum is common in the Schools Twenty sinners are usually sooner brought to repentance under skilful fit Teachers than under one unskilful or ungodly men And no man hath power from God to damn my Soul or forbid me the needful means of my salvation No man is so much concerned as my self what becometh of me for ever and I will not believe that the Patron loveth me and all the Parish better than we love our selves England hath been blest with better Rulers than other Lands But one Rule must in this be held to by all the Churches And if you would even here appeal to experience I will not here stay to tell you the names of 8 or 9 or 10 ignorant Readers most Drunkards some rarely half never preaching that I was bred under nor what a stock of such our Country had and how very thin pious tolerable preachers were nor what worthy men Aldermanbury Black-fryers the Inns-of-Courts and most places have had where the people chose But reason signifieth little with most who are on his side that talketh to them with the best advantage I insist on this You go against all the ancient Farthers and Churches for many hundred Years and are so far a Separatist from more than one Parish-Priest II. And therefore your Accusation of us thus grounded is Shismatical and unjust and recoileth on your self who instead of Gods Rule that all should walk by accuse them that walk not by your novel crooked Rules which may make as many Modish Religions as there are Princes III. And your desire of our silencing and not being tolerated I will only here lament and after speak to IV. And as your Cure by our Conformity is impossible so that by silencing will be none but increase the disease § 7. Is it not a very uncharitable thing of you that when it 's I whom you have called to account you flatly deny or shun to give me an Answer to my Case and to the Case of all others that preach only in Parishes where few of the People can hear in the Church Why ask you To what purpose should you resolve those Queries I Answer to shew me whether my preaching be my Sin or Duty And whether you justly or unjustly accused me and all such others was it not to this purpose
Four or Five and then say Vnanimously and this because they offer to Subscribe the Doctrine of the Thirty Nine Articles And yet I suppose you know that they more Unanimously dissent from the Doctrinal Article in the Liturgy of Baptized Infants certain undoubted Salvation without Exception and some of them to the Doctrinal Damnation of all Condemned in Athanasius Creed And some of your selves as well as Mr. Humphrey could wish the Article against Free-will and that which Damneth all the Heathens and some others had been otherwise than they are § 40. They generally yield that our Parochial Churches are true Churches and it is with these that Communion is required Say you so 1. The Diocesans are little beholden to you if this be all Do you require no Communion with them 2. I think I shall shew you anon that you take your Parishes for no true Churches your self At least your chief Brethren do not who make them but Parts of a Church the Diocesan being the lowest proper Church 3. Are you sure that the Independents take your Parishes for true Churches I cannot tell But I know John Goodwin and Mr. Brown have Writ to the Contrary 4. And for my self how oft have I told you that I distinguish and take those for true Churches that have true Pastors but that is because I judge of their office by Gods Word and not by the Rule which depriveth them of an essential part of the Office of a Pastor of a true Church But I take those for no true Churches that have 1. Men uncapable of the Pastoral office 2. Or not truly called to it 3. Or that deny themselves to have the power essential to a Pastor Such Congregations I can joyn with as Chappels or Oratories But they are not Churches of the political organized from which we speak of as wanting an essential part § 41. Next you tell men what I said in print of our Conclusion that communion with you was lawful Ans This is true and when said we otherwise Dr. Manton Dr. Bates Dr. Jacomb Mr. Poole and others were there I told you before how far lawful § 42. Serm. p. 22. Who could have Imagined but they should have all joyned with us in what themselves judged to be lawful and in many Cases a duty But instead of this we have rather since that time found them more inclinable to courses of separation c. Ans If this be not true I take it not for sinless Since that time 1. Mr. Pool Mr. Humphery my self and others that took our selves to be no Paâ—â—ors to any particular Church have usually joyned in your assemblies and I usually keep to my Parish-Church 2. Since that time in a Treaty set on foot by the Lord-keeper Bridgman we agreed in terminis with Bishop Wilkins and Dr. Burton and Judge Hale drew up our Agreement into the form of an Act. 3. Since that time at your own motion we treated with honest Dr. Tillotson and you and the same men and more consented to the form and words of an agreeing Act and you both seemed to consent 4. Where you read my words you might have read the Reason why no more Communicated with you And it is not like a lover of Truth to dissemble them 1. I told you that even at the present new heats arising against Dissenters we thought it our duty till they were over to forbear a lawful thing which was like to occasion the sufferings of such as in that were not satisfied as we were Marriage is lawful But if it be not necessary one may forbear it if it would ruine another though the Bishop command it him 2. I told you that the Oxford Act of confinement came out when we were intending to come to your Churches and then had we been seen there in the City or Corporations we had been sent to Jayle but many in the Countries came to your Churches This is your Cathedrall Justice The Law is come to Church in London c. and you shall go to Jayle six Months And if we do not such as you tell the World that we are Separatists 3. I told you men cannot preach to others and hear you both at once Must we repeat these things as oft as you accuse us § 43. In the charge are joyned Dr. Owen and my self my error is p. 24. Serm. that to devise new Species of Churches beyond Parochial or Congregational without Gods authority and to impose them on the world yea in his name and call all dissenters Schismaticks is a far worse usurpation than to make or impose new Ceremonies or Liturgies Ans A man would think that this doctrine should justifie it self and confute the Accuser 1. Will you own your Churches de Specie to be new and yet appeal to antiquity 2. Will you own them to be devised without Gods authority and yet to be preferred to those that he instituted 3. Will you own that yet they may in his name be imposed on the World 4. And will you own that for these dissenters may be called Schismaticks 5. And is not this a worse usurpation than to make new Ceremonies If you will plead for so much presumption profanation of Gods Name usurpation uncharitableness and Schism I will leave you to fight against the Light and not labour in vain in a needless confutation 2. But Sir you should have told your Reader the full truth 1. That I never denied but largely asserted the Magistrates power of the Sword over all persons and causes Ecclesiastical much less Christian Kingdoms or Cities de re 2. And that I maintained that Magistrates make officers to judge of the Circa sacra or undetermined accidents of Religion 3. And if you will equivocally call these Churches I quarrel not de nomine 4. Nor yet at the thing or name of the Association of many Churches for Concord 5. But I say in the Page cited by you that as humane forms should not be pretended falsly to be Divine so neither have they authority against those that are Divine to change them and destroy their priviledges Unless you will fight for man against God you must reverse this Accusation § 44. As to your case of the extent of the first Churches I have so much to say of it elsewhere if God will that I shall not here stay on so short a touch Only you put me to repeat If God make families and men make Cities do but confess the different efficients and usurp not a power to destroy the power instituted by God and we shall not much differ § 45. You greatly strengthen my Cause by the testimony of so well Read a man Serm. p. 27. Though when the Churches increased the occasional meetings were frequent in several places yet still there was but one Church and one Altar and one Baptism and one Bishop with many Presbyters assisting him And this is so very plain in Antiquity as to the Churches planted by the Apostles themselves in
do consent But 1. Did our 18 or 19 years Silencing them do that 2. Do not you do it that make men believe that we are Intolerable and to be Silenced and that Separate from our Congregations as if it were a sin to join with us 3. We desire only a true stating of the Case The honest dealing which you demand I and many others constantly perform and it 's ill to intimate that we do not But you add § 77. It 's hard to understand if occasional Communion be lawful that constant Communion should not be a Duty Ans Some Truths are hard to men of great Wit It 's lawful to have communion in our Assemblies as I am ready to prove and yet you think not any much less constant Communion to be a Duty It 's lawful to have Communion with the French Dutch or Greek Church must constant Communion be therefore a Duty It 's lawful to have Communion with an ignorant Reader or a drunken Priest at least in your Judgment Is it therefore a duty to seek no better § 78. Serm. All understanding men will conclude that they pâ—efer some little interests of their own before the Honour of Christ and the Peace of the Church Ans 1. The word Little came well in as to your sense Truly Poverty and Ruin are little interests I cannot imagine what you mean 〈◊〉 it be Reputation But is not your Reputation with the Highest Persons and the multitude a more tempting Interest than our Reputation with such as you much Contemn 2. But do you understanding men know our hearts better than we And are you sure that none are understanding that be not as partially Censorious as you If we prefer our Little interest why do we not Conform If you take us all for Mad men dispute not with us if not can we be ignorant that Carnal Interest is on your side and are none of us Capable of it 3. I should have taken it as too sharp an intimation to say that Your Greater Interest swayeth you No man that is a Christian taketh this vain vexatious World for his great Interest And to make the Little Interest of Prosecuted Beggared Ruined Non-conformists to be that which beareth down both all the interest of Wealth Ease and Worldly honours and the interest of the Churches Peace and the interest of their own Salvation and all this by no other proof than a Supposition that your Sagacity knoweth their hearts and that all understanding men are of your mind the naughtiness of this is so great that it will not suffer you to see it Sir as wise as you are I know my own heart better than you do and so do my Brethren know theirs If you would swear the contrary I will not believe you And I tell you it is no Little Interest that moveth me it is greater than a Deanery or a Bishoprick I were worse than mad if 1. I consumed my small estate 2. And my Health 3. And denied my Ease 4. And all worldly Wealth and Pleasure 5. And exposed my self to be called a Schismatick and a Rogue by the Conformists 6. And lay my self under the ruining dangers of the Law And 7. to be written against as doing all this by sin 8. And all this under the languishings and pains of sickness expecting when I am called to my account I say I were worse than mad if I chose all this for that which you call Little interest 9. And if Reputation with my poor despised party be that Little interest you confute your self before where you say how much I have undergone of their impatient Censures Have I flattered them Have I not said more against their faults than you have done though not against their Duty 10. Some of my heart-judges say it is a semel 〈◊〉 to avoid the imputation of mutability But their Companions confute them who charge me with my retractations and who see by my writings that I left room for second thoughts and have not silenced them to escape the Censure of any whomsoever I have left my Reputation to God and never was so thin Skin'd as to be unable to bear a Cholerick breath I livâ— not upon Air or the thoughts of men who will shortly with me be silent in the dâ—st They that know how many Books perhaps scores have been written against me by Sectaries of many sorts and some by good and sober men Presbyterians Independents and Prelatical and how little they have broke my peace will not think applause is my Little interest Had I bâ—en as you I woâ—ld have left cut this Charge of Little interest lest it should teâ—pt men to compare your Case and ours § 79. Your 5th Advice is just I hate Charging you or any with unjust suspicions of inclinations to Popery I know some sew men whom I have reason to say Defend Grotius as one of their Religion who thought that the Protestants can never unite among themselves till they unite with Rome as the Mistress Church and that the Councils even that of Trent are sound in the Faith and that securing the rights of Kings and Bishops and disowning the Schoolmens abuses and the Clergies evil lives and reducing the Pope to rule us not Arbitrarily but by the Canons are enough to satisfie and reconcile us But to charge this on all or most is unjust We know what Bishop Barlow Bishop Crosts and divers others have done to signifie their Faithfulness to the Protestant Cause And if Câ—ntzen's way prevail not to drill men they know nâ—t whither by degrees I hope of the 9000 or 10000 Clergie men in England one thousand will not turn to Popery But I must say that when some Prelates made it their great business to Silence Shame and Ruin us and drive us far enough from Persons of Power undertaking to preserve the Protestant Religion better without us than with us and after all cry out themselves that we are in danger of Popery by their own Pupils and Disciples whose instruction they undertook men will have leave to think of this awake and to judge of Causes by Effects § 80. Your Counsel is good Not to run the hazard of all for a show of greater Liberty to our selves Should I tell you three stories of our hazarding our own Liberties because we would not do what you disswade us from one in 1660 and another 1662 and another about 1667 it would be a pair of Spectacles to some 2. But will not all that have eyes see who doth more for Toleration of Popery they that say Popery and you shall stand and fall together except you will say subscribe and do all that is prescribed you or they that say We cannot do that which we take to be hainous sin Do you think the Papists had not rather with you that we were Silenced than that we Preach who have been their greatest Adversaries If you will rather let in Toleration of Popery than you will Tolerate Protestants that fear the guilt of Lying Perjury and many other Evils should they do that which you Confess indifferent let God be judge between you and us FINIS §. 1. §. 2. §. 3. §. 4. §. 6. §. 7. §. 8. §. 9. §. 10. §. 11. §. 12. §. 13. §. 14. §. 25. §. 16. §. 17. §. 18.