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A36143 A Disputation proving that it is not convenient to grant unto ministers secular jurisdiction, and to make them lords & statesmen in Parliament 1679 (1679) Wing D1677; ESTC R15032 30,674 38

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offenders and offences and execute revenging wrath upon evil doers And by this means there was much quiet and good living and order in the Realm This course is now antiquated and degenerated into another course not so profitable and convenient for good order and publick quiet and that is the Circuit of Judges itinerant twice each year through the Realm keeping their Assizes at one place only and making all the County to come thither and having a Judges Sermon Preached at the entrance of the Assizes Though the Church and Ministry will stand if the Pastors do their duty yet if Christian Magistrates do not their duty in their place and calling they do so far unchristianize themselves and if they protect the evil and punish the good or think that 〈◊〉 pretence of Liberty of Conscience men may be allowed to blaspheme God to teach Atheism Infidelity and Soul-destroying doctrines and ac● the part of Corah and his complices against the faithful Ministers of Christ God will make them know one day that that was not the end for which he appointed them Magistrates and that they be his Ministers and are therefore called Gods and ought not to bear the Sword in vain and to stand by and see the Church wasted persecuted and torn in pieces by violence heresies schisms profaneness and wickednesses and they be like Gallio unconcerned and care for no such things And the truth is it is no ●●ttle that the due execution of the Magistrates office doth conduce to the success of the Gospel and the promoting of the Ministry and of the Word and Work of God upon mens Souls And therefore though I dissent from the worthy Davenant in this That he would have Pastors to be Magistrates and I would have Pastors to be but meer Pastors and the Off●ce of the Magistrates to be an Office by it self and bestrusted with 〈◊〉 persons who are no Pastors and who may intend it and make 〈◊〉 their work yet thus far I agree that it is most convenient and godly that throughout all the Churches there be in every place an heir of restraint a revenger to execute wrath upon them that do evil and to protect the good that these two standing Ordinances of Jesus Christ and of God the Father by him may stand and consist together and walk hand in hand and mutually support and conserve each other for the Glory of God and the good of Church and Common-wealth And this is no Vtopia or Platonick Idea or form of a Common-wealth which is but a fiction or imagination no where to be found in this World But it is obvious and plain to all and needs not so much any new institution as a restauration of ancient practice and a faithful execution of what all sides agree in consistent with the munici●al laws and sa●ctions of this Kingdom 40. If any shall think I have committed inexpediency in writing against inexpediency and have medled with a point that will not abide to be medled with when I am convinced of it I will acknowledg my error Till then I will stand upon mine own defence and plead not guilty Almost imprudent is prudent If any t●x me of pragmaticalness I answer it is pragmaticalness that I write against and I cannot cure the wound unless I search it to the bottom and apply to it suitable Plaisters Pragmatical Divines cannot content themselves to be Divines in common with their Brethren but they will play the Bishops in anothers Diocess and think it well becomes them to immerse themselves in State-affairs If it shall be said that hereby I cast aspersion upon the Government of the Nation and censure the judgment and esteem of many generations of Princes Parliaments Wise-men Divines and Counsellors I answer That if it be lawful for a Davenant to assert in Schools and publish to the world an erroneous position Civilis jurisdictio jure conceditur ecclesiasticis it cannot be thought unlawful by equal judges for another though not to be named with Davenant to assert the contrary and shew the unsoundness of his opinion though with all just reverence to so worthy a man And in doing this I do but expound the true meaning and extent of the fifth Commandment and assert the rights of the Church universal and the consentient judgment of the best and soundest Divines and the due bounds of Magistracy and Ministry and reduce things to primitive order and simplicity according to the pattern of Christ and his Apostles and the first and purest times of the Church FINIS
are not much inferiour to those ancient ones both Greek and Latin and even to those we have mention of in the New Testament namely the seven Churches of Asia those of Galatia and Judea that at Corinth and others 8. Admit it were true which questionless is not I should rather think that the way to reduce an unreformed Church and people from heresie and unholiness to foundness in the faith and holiness is for Pastors to content themselves with the work of Pastors and give themselves wholly to it and suffer no lets Will the Sword convert souls or awe mens consciences would it likely do more good if a Minister should come into the Pulpit with a Sword in one hand and a Bible in the other The Sword is not appointed of God for the conversion of Souls the office of the Magistrate is to make way for the work and office of the Minister It is the sword of the Spirit which is the Word of God which must cut in pieces mens lusts and breed in them sound faith holiness and reformation and not the sword of the Magistrate Let the Magistrate do or not do his duty let him be Pagan or Persecutor and let the people be more loofe and unreformed than they are let but Pastors and Ministers do their duty well and we shall soon see that Gods Word and Discipline is of the same force now that ever it hath been otherwise there is a change in God and his promise fails and Satan is stronger now than he hath been and Christ and the Holy Ghost are much weaker Read and consider well these Scriptures Mat. 28.18 19 20. 1 Pet. 3.13 Mich. 2.7 Isa 45.19 Isa 49 4 5. 1 Cor. 15.58 Psal 84.11 2 Cor. 2.15 16. 2 Cor. 4.1 2. 2 Cor. 10.4 5 6. to name no more and let but Ministers be wise and faithful and try if it be not the best and speediest way to reform what is amiss in the Church contenting themselves with no more but their own office and leaving all force and secular authority to the Magistrate 9. If we be the same that the ancient Pastors were be sure God and Gods Word will be the same we cannot do Gods part nor the Magistrates part nor the peoples part we can only do our own part which we may do if we will do our own part and be sure God will be with us and do his What hinders but Pastors may be as wise and holy as they have been of old If we be not it is our own fault The more corrupt the times are the more need Pastors have to bestir themselves and to double their diligence and lay out themselves more vigorously to be more Exemplary to abound in the work of God to be mortified to lose no time to suffer no let To make them Magistrates were to let them and take away much of their time and rather hinder and distract than further them If the Pastors office he as much as they can wisely and faithfully do would it further them in their work to have another effice and work added to them Ministers of the Gospel are not so fit as others to be worldly coercive Judges and Secular Magistrates For their office is purely Pastoral and is to have no terrour in but the terrour of Gods Word and spiritual denunciations that the people may have no temptations to withdraw their love and esteem from their Pastors A Thief at the Bar had rather have a Minister than the Judg to reprove him though both should pronounce the same truth and hit upon the same words and have equal wisdom and integrity For properly Magistrates are for outward terrour to evil doers and for outward desence and protection to them that do well Rom. 1● 3 1 Pet. 2.14 But Ministers are to be gentle to souls even as a nurse cherisheth her children and to exhort and comfort and charge every one as a father doth his children 1 Thes 2.7 11. But if parents and nurses and tender mothers should rule their children by the sword too that would not add to their office nor further their work 10. Arg. 3. If it be so as Davenant says that unless Ministers be armed with Secular Jurisdiction their office and authority in the Church and the Lords Word and Discipline as administred by them will be despised and trod upon then necessarily all Ministers should be mad Magistrates and Princes are too blame if they do not put the sword into all their hands and make every Minister throughout the Nation a Justice of Peace or a Sheriff or a Judg by giving him power to imprison and lay fines and penalties upon offenders and to use coercive means And then the Scriptures themselves even the wisdom of God will be found faulty if he have ordained and appointed no such thing in all the Bible as I no where find that he hath done And by the same reason Magistrates may say they also must be Ministers and there will be a confusion of offices and the bounds and banks of order in Church and Commonwealth will be thrown down and if order be not oblerved good government cannot be For good government is nothing but the observance of right order when Magistrates do the duty of Magistrates and meddle with no more but what comes within the compass of their office that is right order and it breeds peace 1 Cor. 14.33 40. And when Ministers and Pastors do their duty and what properly pertains to their office medling with no more this also is right order and the way of true and good government in the Church and produceth peace But if you leave this way and order you err And where your error may stop and what mischiefs and inconveniences it may produce who is able to declare For there is no safety but by keeping in Gods way and close walking by his rules Vno absurdo dato seq●untur mille is as true in Practicals as in Doctrinals 11. A 4. Either Christian faithful Magistrates are a help and defence to Gods Church and to Ministers in their calling and office or they are not If they are then methinks if the Church and Ministers did well when they wanted such helps they should rather do better at least they should do as well or not be much worse when they have such helps But to say they cannot do at all or that Ministers and their Discipline and Ministration barely without Secular Jurisdiction added to them will be of no use but rather a scorn and mockery under Christian Magistrates is stark shame and reproach to all such Ministers and they should rather be cast out of the Church as intolerable and as dung and dead unsavoury salt than be made Magistrates What should they do Magistrates that are not able by all they can do to preserve themselves from sordid ignominy and contempt or if not this it is an intolerable shame to all excepting Ministers both Magistrates and people that they should be so
if we were upon a high towring Steeple or the t●p of a Pinacle we cannot look upward nor downward behind u● nor before us nor on either hand but we be in extream fear of falling For Gods sake for your own sake for the Churches sake ease us of these burdens deliver us from these snares let us not be pragmatical and busie-bodies you do not love to hear Divines pragmatical in the Pulpit and why should it please you or us to be pragmatical out of the Pulpit We thank you for your love and well-meaning zeal but you would not have us undone by you and Church and State suffer by us and by our standing for worldly honours and preferment We had rather be pure and simple Bishops and Clergy-men than neither pure Clergy men nor pure Lay-men but mungrels between both simple bodies are the most solid and compact Gold and Silver mixt is not so pure and firm as pure Gold We had rather be simple followers of Christ and Peter and Paul and the first and most ancient Bishops than any thing that man can make us Never fear that we shall want honour countenance reverence and due maintenance while we our selves fulfil our name and place and there are men and Christians among us If we want any outward desirable reputation esteem or conveniency God will be to us an alsufficient good and our very wants will be sanctified to our good Let us go to our flocks and several charges whence we came hinder us not Let us not be advanced in wealth in honour in preferment above the rest of our brethren who be equal with us in wisdom holiness and industriousness and many of them do exceed us We had rather dye preaching and praying and visiting and instructing the souls of our people than dye voting in Parliament and agitating State matters there If ●ou need our advice at any time in things pertaining to the Church and which come within the sphere and compass of our calling we are ready night and day to do the best service we can And we desire you will not look upon us as a divided party from the rest of our Brethren and Protestant Divines in the Nation but that you will in all your consultations about Church-affairs use the advice of the most sound and holy and impartial and prudent and experienced Divines in all the Nation and by all means possible keep the Sword and coercive power out of the hands of such as be proud and lordly and usurp over their Brethren and would set us all on a flame and are plain worldly hypocritical self-seeking men and rather Papists and Infidels in heart than sincere Christians and Protestants You need consultation with Divines for your Souls as you do with Lawyers for your Estates and Physicians for your Bodies But as you can make due use of Lawyers and Physicians by advising and consulting with them in all necessary cases without making them Statesmen and Peers and Lords in Parliament and loading them with secular greatness honour and jurisdiction so you may make all due and faithful use of us as Bishops spiritual Pastors and Casuists in Gods Church by using our advice and consultation when there is need without loading us with worldly honours and making us Statesmen and Peers and Lords of the Realm and Lords and Law-makers in Parliament such things be extra-episcopal They will be small honour and comfort to us when we come to dye and give up our accounts to God Bend your endeavours to unite all Protestants and to strengthen the common cause of Christianity Faith and Holiness against the reigning errors and vices of the times and the most malignant distempers of mankind now degenerate and far departed from God If you find us such as we should not be do right and justice and let no mans crimes go unpunished nor any scandal lye upon the Churches by any person or party whomsoever Fidelity to God to you to our own souls and to the Church compels us to make this address and to quit our hands of all such matters as will not stand with sound prudence and integrity The first and best part of wisdom is not to err and do amiss for then there will need no repentance but having erred the next and only wisdom is to repent and reform that God may forgive us and men may have forgiving goodness and charity in their breasts towards us 25. In case Bishops and Clergy men shall stand for their worldly dignities and places in Parliament and plead prescription and the example of their ancestors and the right of their successors and think it hard measure to be reformed the Soveraign with the Nobles and Commons in Parliament should say to them We are Gods Ministers bearing the Sword and are to be a terrour to evil doers and a defence to them that do well We are to correct all disorders and abuses Let every soul be subject to the higher powers If we find you to be out of your place and calling we are to take cognizance thereof and see that Archippus take heed to the Ministry which he hath received in the Lord that he fulfil it Col. 4.17 As we may not forbear to use your advice and consultation both publick and private when there is cause so neither may we call you to counsel and consultation needlesly and avocate you from your Studies and Episcopal and Pastoral work in Prayer and Preaching and Overseeing your several flocks without cause unto you belongeth the power of the Word and Keys unto us belongeth the power of the Sword If you see any misdemeanours in us do your duty faithfully kill us not by kindness flatter us not to our ruine make utmost use of that authority God hath given you in his Church to edification conceal nothing from us and the people which is godly and profitable for us to know spare to reprove no sin which is a sin and which needs reproving do your duty faithfully be prudent be pious be peaceable be diligent and blameless in your place and we shall defend you and be a terrour to all that would harm and oppose you But if it will not content you to be as Peter and Paul and the holy Bishops and Pastors of old but you will needs be usurping the Magistracy and seeking domination and make your Brethren of the Clergy your underlings if you will needs be pragmatical and busie-bodies and neglect the work of Prayer and Preaching and suffer the souls of your people to want due oversight and pastoral care if you will beat your fellow-servants and causelesly fall out with your Brethren and the universal Church we must not wink at such offences but declare them to be crimes punishable by a lawful Magistracy which we are under God We will hear of no plea or prescription against Piety Prudence and Peace Usurpation domination pastoral negligence and unfaithfulness and gross imprudencies are not priviledges but sins and crimes to say they