of preaching Ministers if those already which we haue may be suffered freely to execute their office matters may be so ordered till thorough the blessing of God all Churches bee replenished that no man neede to goe aboue fiue myle to heare a sermon and for the administration of the Sacramentes the Church with the consent of the Godly Magistrates may take such order if it shall so please them that euerye Parish may haue the Sacramentes ministred by a preaching Minister and so they maye bee still edified in the holy fayth and not as hee grosely and vngodlye imagineth of the people of God become more sauadge then Painims and wilde Irish The next is worthy of no other answere then is already made But where hee sayth They are not to bee counted dumb and silent who in their Churches doe exhort dehort comfort and in some degree instruct their Parishioners If he meane those dueties as the Apostle vnderstandeth them to be peculier to the man of God 2. Tim. 3 wee graunt he saith true for so they cannot be seperated from the true resoluinge and opening of the Scriptures But if he meane as his words import by comparing with the rashe dealing of suche as take vppon them to preache beeing not inabled thereunto then must wee needes say that that voyce which is lowde ynoughe in the house euen in the mouth of the Misteres of the family who must Open her mouth with wisdome and haue the doctrine of grace in her lippes Is not lowde ynough for the Pastors of Gods church who must lift vp their voyce alowde to shewe Israell their sinnes and Gods people their transgressions and that the riches of the Worde with wisedome to admonish and exhort one another which the Apostle maketh common to all grounded Christians is not competent for the Scribe who shoulde bee prepared for the Kingdome of God and bring out of his storehouse thinges bothe newe and olde that hee may bee a Pastor according to God his heart to feede them with knowledge and vnderstanding Touching the want of liuing in some Parishes for which cause hee sayth The Byshoppes haue ordered some of meane ability If they obserued the rule of the Apostle that at this time Their aboundaunce mighte supply others lacke that also others aboundance might be for their lacke that as it is written hee that gathered much hath nothing ouer and hee that gathered little had not the lesse Then that obiection neede not bee made In his large discourse to salue the sore of the vnpreaching ministry wherein hee laboureth to disprooue the Abstractors assertion who affirmeth that preaching of the Word is the ordinary meanes to worke fayth hee hath many wordes but no reason For as one wel beateÌ„ leaueth him that mastereth him and turneth to some easier match in steede of proouing out of the Scriptures that reading of the word is ordinarily so honoured that it should bee an ordinary instrument to worke fayth hee prooueth by many places of Scripture a cleane other thing namely that the reading of the Worde receiueth some other blessing then that which is extraordinary which euerye one will graunte him For they are no small blessinges that by publique reading priuate exercise of the word men are prepared made fit for the publike ministry and afterwards are continually quickned in al Christian holines and confirmed in the publike doctrine which is al the sence of the places which he alledgeth And it is as if one shold reason Apollo watered y â— Corinthes therfore Paul only did not plant theÌ„ Where he asketh why Moses is read euery Sabboth in the Synagogues we answere to the former ends and more fully with S. Iames that euery sabboth day he might be preached Neither doth he in any sort satiffie that which is obiected out of the Apostle Rom. 10. seeing hee speaketh of such Preachers as are publikely and solemnly sent verse 15 which we hope he will not vnderstande of bare reading and of such as the Prophet Esaie with admiration of the blessing of the Gospel crieth out How beautifull are the feete of those which preach peace of those which preach good thinges As for his obiection Of many thousandes in the tyme of persecution by bare reading conuerted and that we are not to saye that the people where they haue no preaching Minister be saued by myracle It is not worth an answere For besides that the blessing of God is extraordinary by raysing vp the light of the Gospell in so palpable darkenesse which had couered the whole earth in stead of a thousand he can not shew one who by bare reading without the preachinges then vsed in secreat and the open publishing of the truth by the Martyrs at their death or by ordinary preaching going afore as in the dayes of King Edward of blessed memory haue beene truly conuerted vnto the Lorde In the other poynt he is forced to goe against y â— wool For whereas else-where though to an ill ende namely to dazell the eyes of the people that they shoulde not see the plague of an ill ministery he doth worthely commend the running of the Gospell vnder her Maieâ—â—ies happy gouernment yet heere he is fayne to as ill a purpose farre more vnworthely to abase the same as though preaching were so scant as the Lorde knoweth it is very scant and both Country and Citie doe lament the rarenes of it as that men can not haue fayth but by reading onely which is farre otherwise seeing they ought to haue at the least foure sermons euery yeare it is as if complayning of a great dearth one should aske how they liue that starue not As good is his reason out of Angust The scriptures containe all thinges necessarye to saluation therefore men may ordinarily haue faith by bare and naked reading As materiall is his demaund following whether the declaring and publishing of the Worde be not a kinde of declaration and preaching of the Lordes will vnto vs. And that which he sayth afterwardes of Homilyes that although in a strickt signification they be not preaching yet in some sence they are as well as a Sermon penned is vttered forth to the people for so it may be replyed that the insensible creatures preach and publishe God his will and that the sheepehardes preached though not as he sayth in a strikt signification So women and Children may make a declaration of the wil of God and yet not apt to preach as the scripture requireth of euery Minister Further if he had remembred that the Apostle maketh so great a difference between his owne writing preaching as when he writeth to the Romanes he desireth earnestly to preach vnto them also he need not haue maruailed if good men make such seperation between the reading of good writinges of men the liuely preaching of the holye worde of God especially considering he can not be ignoraunt that the one proceedeth onely from the common gyftes
not only without reason but also sence contrary to his professed knowledge to proclayme warre amongst the Churches for this matter of circumstaunce when they all haue the substaunce agreed vppon in Gods worde and doe not tye them-selues or others to the particuler circumstaunces It is also as absurde that he setteth downe as a contrarietie to the election of the Elders and people that they allowed the Officers chosen by the Consistorye or by voyces of the people or by one Minister as thogh that were derogatory to a right order to ratifie that by good authority which was at the first imperfectly donne Yet that is most absurde which he doth obtect againste the authour of the Abstract as though he were contrarye to this order because he woulde haue the people giue their consent seeing as hath beene shewed these may not only agree but ought vnseperably to be ioyned togeather in Church-lections For if eyther by silence or otherwyse they signifie their consent and the election be not made but sufficient deliberation be giuen them to shew iust causes of their dislyke or gladly to accept them It is all one as hath beene prooued in the treatise to that purpose In the next obiection he must first prooue that we dissent before he haue an answere for to haue it done by the Consistorye and to adioyne a conference are not contrary The next is answered in the treatise of the election of Church-officers The next is an vntruth For the confirmation De la dis Eccles sheweth that the people giue their consent and approbation according to the 14. of the Actes Page 233. The next we take but for a poore cauil grounded vnlesse hee make it appeare which he speaketh of some which hold it lawfull to picke a quarrel and leaue the ministery vpon a slaunder In deed if at one mans pleasure for truthes sake they be put out to seeke an honest way to lyue is not vnlawfull nor contrarye to the decree of the French Churches that they be chosen to be Ministers their whole life vnlesse they be discharged lawfully vnto which decree all agree The next of depositions receiueth the same answere which the elections doe for the authority which electeth must be that which deposeth and the Discipline of Fraunce meaneth no otherwise And of Excommunication ther is the like iudgement The Author of the Abstract can best expound his meaning and his words bear no such collection as hee gathereth For in saying the Minister may do it and that by Lawe in his charge aswell as the Byshop in his Diocesse He doth not authorize the Byshoppe to doe it alone but with due consent to whome it doth appertaine In the nexte when hee sheweth who that some bee which make decision of controuersies incident to euery Presbytery otherwise then if they can with contentation agree of the trueth amongst themselues we will giue his aunswere to it In the meane time we iudge of it as of the rest that it is vntrue The like of the two other excepting Brown for whome he hath his aunswere and of the next about God-fathers Concerning the next poynt the which he sayth of the Churches of Fraunce that they think it lawfull to baptize without an assembly I can not beleeue it vnlesse I haue better direction then the 7. article of their Discipline in which I can finde no such thing though I finde some other articles there which he hath aledged thence wherefore I feare that it is a fiction Concerning Holy-dayes let him firste shew that the Churches obserue them in maner of a Sabboth wholly to rest from their labour and then T. C. with his reasons or the churches with theirs must giue place to the truth The diuersity about popish Priestes is aunswered before in the tretise of that matter The next are but slaunders to which he gyueth no credite by anye testimonye and are confuted before in the treatise of the Doctor It is also a manifest vntruth that T. C. mislyketh wholly That anye are suffered to preach nor hauing a Pastorall charge For he speaketh generally of such as haue no charge neither Pastorall nor Doctorall For he would haue both tyed to a certayne place yea the Elders Preaching in other mens cures or charges wherevnto men are not lawfully called wee condemne according to the iudgement of the French Churches neither doth he note any wher we might finde the contrarie In ordaining of ceremonies the admonition meaneth no otherwise than the Frenche Churches for though the Eldershippe abollishe those which are vnprofitable yet it may be don with consent alowance of other Churches for which cause hee entreateth of conferences page 30. 31. c. That hee saith of the admonition as though they misliked a prescript forme of prayer is an vtter vntruth for there are not anye wordes which shewe they mislike a prescript forme of prayers As for vnleauened bread it is but proper to Geneua onely now our Church hath alowed the other why should he then make any difference or strife about it The matters of mariage or such like heere named as they are handled with vs are ciuil but as they become doubtfull in any question of God his worde or what is expedient for the Church to doe for auoyding of offence belongeth vnto the Ecclesiasticall seigniorie and so that difference is aunsweared In the other also it is defended as vnlawfull for a Minister of the Worde to be occupied in Ciuill affayres Againste this he in vaine bringeth an exception in Elders which rule onely Neither is it simplye a Ciuill thing to giue testimonies in writinges for to doe it for matters Ecclesiasticall as for soundnesse of fayth for assuring them to be receiued which were excommunicate or such like it is an Ecclesiastical not a Ciuill action Touching the order of the French Church for publishing of Bookes we consent that where the Discipline is established and an order taken that men with modesly in a Synode may be sufficiently heard and satisfied that it ought to be in force and as an Eeclesiasticall order obeyed from which yet a man may swarue being dryuen to gyue defence to the truth of God The next setteth his conceits in the laughter of all men For maye we not mislyke that he which ordayneth shoulde bydde the ordayned receaue the holye Ghoste which he can not gyue nor hath promise that his imposition of handes shall distribute auye gifts and yet alow that that place for instruction be repeated and intreased of Concerning his long srory of subscription this may be sufficient shortly to aunswere both to shew our â—uitye in iudgement with the Churches and also to satisfie the Church of England First therefore we say that we haue alwayes beene readye according to our dutye to subscribe to her Maiesties supreame authority and to the Articles of religion concerning the doctrine of fayth and of the Sacramentes which is all that is requyred by law Secondly when as it is
of Israel be wise and vnderstand kisse the sonne least he be angry seeke the Lorde whilste he may be founde make attonement with him rest yee on God and follow his wayes For the eyes of the Lord behold all the earth to shew him selfe strong with them that are of perfect hart toward him And you ye reuerend fathers which take vpon you to rule the sterne of God his ship to your consciences be it appealed whether you thrust not out of your brethren faithful skilful marriners nourishing the idle vnfit wherby it is come to passe that thousands of soules are like to be drowned Let be appeled vnto your cōsciēces whether this your dealing be not the only cause that this church of England hath suffred such disquietnes and whether you ar not folowers of such as haue bin disturbers of the churches in other countries cōpare I pray you your cause with their cause and your proceding with their proceeding as namely let the practises of the diuines of PERGA in Germany for the maintaining of the errour of consubstantiation and vbiquity of Christe his bodie be compared with your striuing against the wholesome disciplin of Christ they were few as namely about six one bare the cheefest svvay you are not so many as that for your willes all the Churches should be troubled in England they helde the foundation and so doe you they had to doe with their godly brethren and so haue you they shrowded themselues vnder the shadovve of moste famons men as of Luther and Melancthon and so do you euen of moste blessed martyrs and very learned fathers they hauing tried diuers wayes to establish their errors at length deuised a subscription to a book called Liber concordiae thereby to drawe a secrete allovvance of that which openly they could not so vvel set one foote You after many molestations and vexations of your brethren euen to the turning avvay of many good schollers godly affected from the study of diuinity haue at the lēgth contrary to allavv of God and man offered violence to the consciences of your brethren by a forced subscription they first won the magistrat and made him their pretence vvhere their subtilty vvas espied and I pray God it be not layd to your charge for your like dealing pretences the Magistrates vvere hardly dravvne to like of their purpose maner of proceding so am I perswaded that yours cannot long bee couered they pretended vnity and intituled their subscription a Booke of Concord and by that meanes made great discord and dissention you cry out for conformity and good order and nothing lesse is the issue of your proceedings you cry the peace of the Churche and vvho knovveth not that if you vvoulde be humble to God and louing to your brethren and discharge your duetye to her Maiesty but that these stumbling blocks and meanes of dissention might long ago haue bene remooued For vve are assured that as the Magistrates vvith them did somevvhat staye their fury so if her Highnesse of her Godly disposition and accustomed clemencye vvith her honourable Counsellers had not bene some Bridle to your vnvvise indeuors there vvould hardly haue bin ere this time any peace for a faithfull minister But how proceeded they vvhat did they obtaine Euen by feare and authority they forced some to subscribe some they woone by faire vvords to some they granted in secreat limitatiō which after they in open denied some hauing subsci bed aftervvarde vvith great sorrovve and anguishe relented some they remooued from their charges and some they continued vvith long and variable molestation and finallye this vvas the good they brought to passe that the people were distracted many churches vntaught great broiles confusion in many places So I wold to God that euery of those that I may not say vvorse vvere not too too true in you onely let it be appealed vnto your conscience that you suspended and depriued them whom by lavv you ought to haue first resolued or endeuored your selues to haue so don and that by articles interrogatory you vvēt about indeed intangled some of your brethrē vvith that pretence of law which othervvise seemed to be vvanting And vvas this either charitable to your brethren or agreeable to iustice to your aduersary meete in a Bishop to those of his charge that one should be punished before his cause be equally heard And that hee may not haue a copye of the thinges layde to his charge but be driuen vpon an oth to ansvvere sodainly being depriued in a chamber to be sent avvay vvithout anye certayne knovvledge of the causes of his depriuation Let all men iudge hovv this may beseme Christian Bishops and graue fathers But hovv haue you made vnity conformity euen as one vvould open a doore to al horrible cōfusion vprore if by the merciful prouidence of God it had not beene staid and preuented It is high time therefore for you to repent and to shewe your selues as true Elders casting downe your crovvnes before the Lambe It is hard for you to kicke against the prick Remember vvhat is written If the euill seruant shall say in his hart my Master doth deferre his comming and begin to smite his fellowes and to eate and drinke with the drunken that seruants master will come in a day vvhen he looketh not for him giue him his portion vvith hypocrites there shal be vveeping and gnashing of teeth And all ye the inhabitantes of this lande turne yee to the Lord before it bee too late humble your selues before the throne of his mercye let euerye one chaunge his heart and amend his ovvne vvaies that the Lorde may haue pittye vppon vs and our enimies preuaile not againste vs. Pray yee for the peace of this Lande they that loue the Lorde cease not crying till he haue mercy vppon vs And let the remembraunce of our blessed soueraigne be in all your supplications that by the continuaunce of her happy prosperous reigne his glorious Gospell may shine more and more as in the dayes of king Iosias in brightnesse beauty among vs. And let this little treatise bee vnto thee gentle and Christian reader as a light and profitable glasse from day to day to looke in that it may be a meanes to teach thee and stirre thee vp to praye for and to seeke by all lawfull quiet and Godlye meanes the refourmation of some things in our Church For it is not the purpose thereof as God knoweth to minister matter of ciuill contention or that any man shoulde reioyce in the strife of brethren but with as much care as could be tendring the peace of the church to make apparant simply and briefly the truth of godlinesse in the thinges mentioned in this book according to the worde of God And here vve desire all men and you the reuerende Fathers of this land all godly brethren to whom this may come to iudge charitably of this
Churches in his dominions both lawfully may by duety ought not onely to disanull what-soeuer election the Elders and people haue vnlawfully made but also by his ciuil preeminence to compell them to make a newe election according to the Worde of God Which as it is as much as the sole election by the Byshop giueth to the Prince yea or rather more so if they can shew any further thing due vnto the Magistrate all such as with a sincere minde seeke for the reformation of the Church are alwayes as readye with all humblenesse to giue it as they will be willing with singlenesse to shew it To the place of the Councell of Laodicea and Origin let this be the aunswere The meaning of the Councell in those words Non populo concedendum electionem facere c. We ought not to giue leaue to the people to make electioÌ„ is they shold not bear y e whol sway without the gouernment or direction of the Elders and not to shut out the due consent of the people as is manifest by the counselles going afore as shall hereafter appeare against which this counsell woulde not haue decreed vnlesse it had repealed the same or shewed some reason but most of all by Counselles following who haue authorized the consent of the people and namely the 4. of Carthage which was confirmed in the sixt generall Counsell at Trullum together with that of Laodicia which would not haue confirmed contrary decrees The wordes are these When he speaking of the bishop shal be examined in al these and founde fully instructed then let him bee ordayned with the consent Clericorum laicorum of the Clearks lay men As for that of Origin it is nothing to the purpose which hee sayth of the people except there could be some priuiledge shewed that partly the same or such like as daungerous infirmities were not to be founde in a Byshop The next reason maketh as much against the election of Byshops as of the people seeing they may bee hypocrites as well as the people in all mens iudgement one man is sooner carried with ambition couetousnesse then an whole Church of godly Elders and Christian people vnto disorder And if for the contentions striuings of y â— people y e church may abrogate the consent of y e people in Ecclesiastical elections theÌ„ may she by the same authority disanull Synods and Counselles which as often haue beene full of rage and vprores and of which Nazianzen saith He neuer sawe good issue but that thorough merueilous ambition desire of contention thinges out of order were not remedied but made worse Epist 42. ad procopt Neither for this cause as the promise of God made to counsels is not lightly to bee regarded so ought hee not thus prophanely to reiect it when it is brought to vphold y t consent of y e people Further wher as he saith that Churches both of elder later times haue for that cause abandoned such elections it is to be thought he can bring as much for the proofe of it as hee hath already alleadged which is nothing Whatsoeuer hee can doe the Doctrine of the auncient Fathers and the examples of the elder Churches is farre otherwise For Chrysostome vpon Actes 1. aunswering the Question why Peter communicated the election with the Disciples saith Least the matter should be turned into a brawle and haue fallen to a contention For the elder Churches he cannot be ignoraunt how many haue beene troubled with such inconueniences and yet haue not sought such extream remedies nay the example of good Constantine the Emperour is notable who when the citizens of Nicodemia had chosen an Arrian a runnagate and a rayler on the Emperour he did not take awaye the Churches consent but by his Letters according to his duety mooued them to a newe Theodoret lib. 1. Cap. 19. Againe if these infirmities of the people bee a good reason to take away their libertye in the Election of their Ministers then the contrary vertues which oftentimes haue beene found in them in staying the rage of the Scribes and Pharisies Mat 21. 26. Actes 3. 26. in preferring catholique persons before Arrians and in being themselues catholiques when their Byshops haue been heretiques Zozo lib. 7. cap 7. Theodo lib. 2. cap. 7. is a good reason to maintaine their liberty â—till As concerning his questions following which as they declare rather a mind giuen to cauell at that which he cannot by sound reason auoyde so are they easilye aunswered out of the course and proportion of trueth in the Scripture Women not being in the seate of Magistracy are forbidden by the Apostle to speak in such publique assemblies and exercise authority ouer men Which rule being spoken of y â— mother doth also barre children and such as shall bee in greater subiection vntill by yeares and Christian knowledge they shall by the iudgement of the Church growe vnto the liberty of Christians in that behalfe and then if they followe the greater and better part their sentence ought to preuaile As for the Question of the Patron seeing it is a constitution not of God but of man let the wise and skilfull lawyers define so they do no iuiury to the holie trueth of GOD and his Church The next Question is vayne and friuolous For first by due authoritye diuers be propounded and the Church consent to haue one of them it must needes bee that hee which is approued of the Elders and hath most voices must receiue the charge seeing that can not be sayde to be done with generall consent which thing the Scripture giueth to Church-elections where the fewest but where the moste directed aright do agree And as for them that be absent sicke or imployde if they haue any thing of waight to signify to the Church the Church is to harken vnto them by whome soeuer they sende their aduise And as it is no reason that when eyther sicknesse or theire duetie to the Church doe withhold them that shoulde abridge that libertie so if by negligence or wilfulnesse they bee absente after competent warning the whole Churche is not to depend vppon them who doe not so much loose as cast awaye theire interest in the election Lastly who seeth not that anye idle brayne may make these and such like demaundes both against the rules in the Scriptures and the obseruation in the primitiue Church Where he sayth that in the sixth of the Actes was not done by anie expresse commaundement of Christe but vppon the mutinye of the Greekes agaynst the Hebrewes as it is to bee graunted that it was an occasion why the people did present so that was no cause of their free consent is manifest by the other places where that is maintained without any particuler cause Actes 1. and Cap. 14. If Actes 6. speake of Deacons onely yet Actes 1. Actes 14. speake of Apostles and Elders and theire election by the consent of the people And if the peoples consent
and their dutie and of the churches duetye to them Rom. 13. Lastly the Gouernours wee speake of in their gouerment are placed as farre vnder the Pastors and Teachers as they are vnder the Apostles and Prophetes which if they dare say it of y ◠Magistrates they are them-selues become plaine Annabaptists and do cleane ouerthrow the most rightfull soueraigntie of Princes ouer all persons and causes as well Ciuill as Ecclesiasticall A fourth reason is seeing oure Sauiour Christ in setting downe the Ecclesiasticall Presbytery speaketh according to the Jewes for otherwise the Apostles could not haue vnderstood him when he sayde tell the congregation or Churche which was the title then giuen vnto the Ecclesiasticall Senate and his wordes of hauing as a Publican and Heathen doth manifestly prooue he ment to speak according to their custome It must needes be that hee did according to the places afore brought ordayne a Presbytery of Pastors Teachers and Elders like vnto theirs of Priestes Scribes or Teachers of the Law and their Elders which gouerned onely In y ◠fift place y ◠precept of S. James which willeth them to sende for the Elders of the Church when they be weak therby plainly declaring that y ◠Church ought not onely to haue a Pastor and a Doctor whose cheefe attendance must be on reading exhortation and doctrine But also many who ought alwayes to bee ready at the instant calling of diuers and many at once that none in y ◠necessary worke bee neglected it followeth thereby that beside them there ought to be such other elders as may admonish the vnruly comfort the weak minded patient towards all Lastly all those places which say Elders were ordayned Churche by Church that an accusation must not be taken against them vnder two witnesses and such like doe establish these for seeing the wordes are generall to both as haue bene prooued before and no circumstance doth restraine them nay the circumstances vphold y ◠general because in the first place Lukes purpose is to declare howe the Apostles broughte the Churches to a perfect and full order of Church-gouernment and in the other the Apostle had spoken immediately before of both sorts Wherfore vnlesse they will ouerthrowe all certayne sense of these places and that notable rule of interpretation that the wordes and sense of places are not to be restrained but vpon repugnance of places or playn circumstaunces of Text they must here vnderstande both sortes of Elders And thus much out of the Scriptures nowe out of the Fathers IGNATIVS AD TRVLL There is no Churche which can stande without her Eldershippe or Councell Tertull. Apoll. Cap. 39. If there bee anye that hath committed such a fault that hee bee put away from the partaking of the Praiers of the Church and from all holy affayres or matters there bee presidents certain of the most approued auncientes and Elders Theophilact on the place of Mat. interpreteth tell the Church tell the Gouernours thereof Ambrose 1. Timoth. 5. Complayneth that the Teachers and Ministers of the Word suffered this to weare out of the Church or rather of pride whilste they onely would seeme to doe somwhat Nowe all knowe that the Elders which they called Sacerdotes Priestes were not worne out of vse therefore hee may meane this and this sheweth what the Fathers meant And CIPRIAN confirmeth that as manifestlye that it remayned in his time where he sayth Lib. 4. Epi. 22 whē either examining whether al things agreed to them which should be in those who were prepared for the Ecclesiasticall function We gaue it to Optatus we with the Elders Doctors and readers ordain him Teacher of those which heare Which sheweth there were Elders for Gouernment which were not occupied in any publike diuine seruice distinguished not onelye from the Preachers but Readers Ierom also saith The Christian Church also hath her Eldership Ier. 2. lib. in Isa Which when he meneth it of such as the Jewes had it is plain hee meaneth those which we doe as may appeare by his wordes of the Jewes Elders Ad Galas quest decim They chose saith he of the wisest of their company for gouernors which shoulde aswell admonish those that had any corporall pollution to abstaine from the assemblies as to reprooue the breakers of the Sabboth A reply to the variable collections following against the Discipline HItherto we haue had whatsoeuer force he coulde make against the seuerall pointes of Church-gouernment handled before Now because he thoght the stenche of the former dung was not strong ynough to ouercome the sweete sauour which the Worde casteth vppon the Discipline hee hath tumbled together as hee thinketh a great many diuersities and contrarieties drawn from the writinges of those which seeke the Church-discipline whereby he woulde faine fasten vppon it that it is not to bee yeelded vnto because the Authors are not At any accorde or resolution amongst themselues nor yet with other learned men Also vppon hie olde song that these matters are in the liberty of the Church it is a very nice and a dangerous scrupulosity rather then to vse that aright which hath beene once abused that a man shoulde goe aboute to deuise and to laye oute new plat-formes in Church-matters in which of necessitie such difficulties will daylye arise that cannot by anye reache of mans wit bee forecast and will breede not only a continuall toil but also infinite daungerous innonations both in the Church and common-wealth Concerning which slaunderous dealing of his I will first generally speake of it and then make aunswere to his seuerall collections adding vnto euery one of his open contradictions inconueniences of their side not only drawn from the diuersitie of mens iudgement which in the best thinges are through humane infirmity at oddes but such as shew the cheefe defendors to bee at warre with them selues in the points which they mayntayn with the holy doctrin which they must needs confesse Now may it please the Reader in the first place to consider what iniutye this man doth not onelye to the Discipline but also to our holy Religion in this manner of dealing For by this reasoning of his it shall come to passe that the Religion when it was first preached by the Apostles because it was ioyned with contrarieties and strifes as of those of the Circumcision with the rest and sometimes with bitternesse and difference betweene the Ministers whilste one woulde haue one that had forsaken the worke go with them another woulde not sometimes tumultes and disorders following the same it might well haue beene refused and east away seeing the Professors were at variance contended and many inconueniences in the reason of man followed their preaching By this meanes the whole religion which is in truth maintained of vs and of our brethren whom now they call Lutherans as an vncertain and vngrounded religion because of contrariety between vs in the
shall finde this to be true of Deacons much more of Elders But if this exception were true as it is moste false who can chuse but hee must abhorre the hypocrisy of these men who can deface the ordinance of God which they want which they themselues haue not For their Commissaries and Chauncellors who suspende Excommunicate and administer the discipline of our Church vnder the Byshops what are they who calleth them the Byshop who ordaineth them or annoynteth them his Letters Patentes By whose prayers doe they looke to obtaine comfort in their calling by the byshops blessings without prayer without fasting To what office are they put apart to mingle heauen and earth together matters of God and matters of men to excommunicate take probats of testaments to admonish ecclesiastically commit penance to be Lord ouer y e ministers themselues hauing taken no degrees Thus though their calling bee neither ecclesiastical because they come to no church-election nor haue any such ordination nor ciuil because they be called by y ◠bishop only as he is bishop put a part neither to administer ecclesiastical things only nor things ciuil only but to both and to some which are neither as to giue men spiritually leaue to mary and eat flesh in Lente as though they were made to goe beyonde all good estate of mankinde beyonde y ◠body because they meddle with the soule beyond the soule because they meddle with that which pertaineth vnto it nay somtimes which is hurtful Wherfore althogh this were sufficient to stop his prophane mouth yet that it may appeare that the gray haires of this order are more auncient then the very hoarie head of his Chauncellors and commissaries I will prooue it to be the ordinaunce of GOD out of the Scriptures that there ought to bee an Ecclesiasticall Senate of Pastors Doctors and Elders gouerning onely to haue the administration of Church-matters and that they ought to bee administred Ecclesiastically 1 If the Apostles set downe two sorts of Elders which rule the Church wel and are worthy of double honor the one sort of them only ruling the other labouring also in the Worde and doctrine which are as hath beene proued before the Pastors and Doctors then it is plaine that these raising only must be added vnto them 2 But the first is true by the expresse wordes of the Apostle 1. Tim. 5. 17. 3 Therefore the former assertion is certaine To this place some are wont to obiect that the first sort are such as are occupied in the Word and Sacraments thogh they preach not But this will not serue both because we haue prooued that none are to be admitted to that but they ought to preach and also because those shoulde yet be occupyed in the Worde and therefore comprehended vnder the latter sort Now when they perceiue this will not serue beeing men willing to learne of anye they haue learned of the Jesuites to aunsweare That such Priests specially and Prelates are worthy of duble that is more ample honour that are able to teach and preach and do take paines therein And therefore they make that all for their office are worthy of double honour but specially those which labour diligently and painfully in the Worde But this shift is manifestly discouered by the text First because the Apostle shoulde then haue said thus they which are occupyed in Word and doctrine are worthy of double honor especially those which labour but he doth not make the ministery of word and doctrine common to both but the ministery of gouerning Secondlye the Apostle by these mens goodly deuice shoulde not proceede but should go backwarde in his comparison for he had then sayde more in the firste part when he sayd They which do it well or as he might saye with worthinesse of praise which he that doth must not onely do it with labour paines diligence but also with purity wisdome zeale power soūdnes fitnes many other things besides labour So this sense cleane ouerthroweth the Apostles increase by the worde Especially Thirdly by this meanes the Apostle muste make three sortes of Ministers of the worde such as are occupied in the Word but not well belike their ignoraunt Ministers First they which shoulde haue some honour for their office sake then some that doe it well but not with labour or diligence which must haue double honour though they labour not the last which doe it more then well which must haue more then double honour If this be not to dally with the Lordes word what is Fourthly If the difference were not in thinges wherein they are occupied but in the labour aboue others or the slouthfull labouring of others this difference should be none at all seeing the Apostle in other places giueth watchfulnesse which is more then labour for it is a continuaunce of labour with great regard not onely in preaching but otherwise for their soules health Yea he giueth this very word Copiōtes which labor to all that are ouer them in the Lord and admonish them which they must reuerence and acknowledge Lastly their distinction and interpretation is cleane destitute of conference of Scriptures which are not wont to giue double honor to any but to those which are painfull which labor in their worke but ours haue moste manifest witnes out of other places as shall appeare by the other reasons following 1 If the Apostle Rom. 12. setting downe y ◠ordinary members of Christs Church which differ in their proper action doe set downe the Elder to be ouer the people with diligence and not to be occupied in the ministery of the Worde eyther by exhortation or doctrine but to admonish them and rule them then our assertions must needes be certain 2 But the first is manifest Rom. 12. 6. 7. c. 3 Therefore this hath beene ordained by the Apostles 1 If the Apostle say in the 1. cor 12. that besides the Ministers of y ◠Word God hath set in his Church Gouernours then our Position is true 2 But he sayth God hath set first Apostles Thirdlye Teachers Gouernors c 3 Wherefore our Doctrine is not vncertaine but the liuely trueth of God his Worde Unto these two they doe obiecte that by these Magistrates are meant but that is plainelye confuted by these reasons oute of the Text. First because the Apostle speaketh of them as of Church-Officers and which were then the members of Christes bodye which then theire Magistrates were not Secondlye he speaketh of them as of such giftes as came then newly by preaching of the gospel to the Gentiles and such as they should then with zeale followe after Rom. 12. 6. 1. Cor. 12. 31. Which the Apostles would neyther say nor exhort them to doe concerning the Magistrates office for they neuer were so Annabaptistical as to exhorte theire churches to be zealous to become Magistrates Thirdly the Apostle doth after speake of the Magistrates
in Fraunce the substaunce of Discipline shall be out of the worde confirmed and the controuersies betweene vs equally and orderly decided We will also be bounde to subscribe as they are His first quotation out of the Adm. doth set down that in a different letter which is not there to be found Which practize is done onely to disgrace vs vniusâ—ly with the Magistrate The other two sentences though we iudge them somewhat hardly set downe yet they must be charitably interpreted according to the course of their Booke the first of the trueth of Discipline not of doctrine the other of Ministers so called and inabled as God his worde doth allowe The rest is worth no aunswere the matter beeing handled before and Gualter being a party with you against M. Iewell and M. Nowel in that point though againste you in the question of Church election Now in stead of this heape of disagreementes which are at one with them selues let him accorde these following drawne from the wryters who are of his iudgement No man for any crime is to be secluded from any law fall vocation if he repent him and become a new man and there be no generall commaundements contrary herevnto But this doctrine is consonant to the whole course of the Gospell Yet we all hold that Traytours are not to be admitted Byshops or of the Queenes Guarde They maintain this speach of Ambrose on the 4. of the Ephes In the beginning it was permitted to euery one to preach the Gospel baptize and expound the Scriptures but when the Churche was enlarged certain Parishioners were appoynted and goucrnors and other officers ordayned in the Church Yet now Ministers maye not preach without a lisence It is defended by the former Booke that The worde of God is as effectuall when it is read as when it is preached and reading is preaching yet the Booke of Common-prayer preferreth Preaching before Homilies And himselfe sayth that Preaching is the most excellent meanes to ingender fayth This man condemneth and reiecteth Doctours as new yet the former booke Page 425. sayth that by auncient wryters A Catechistes office was necessarie in the Church and distinct from the Pastour The same booke fol. 700. in the marginall note hath Nothing ought to be reade vnder the name of Scripture but the Canonicall Contrary to the booke of Common prayer which appoynteth the Apocripha to be reade vnder the name of holy scripture Iewel saith that for one bishop to haue authority ouer an other is neyther by Christ Peter nor Paule nor by any right of God his word Yet they do by preaching and wryting still maintaine it by the examples of Peter Timothy and Titus In the aunswere to the authority of Peter Martyr it is sayde that in our Church religion is onely reformed to the quicke But the examiner sayth they see weightyer things in the Church wherat they may be greeued as other good men are Now we come to his questions which althogh they he captious and therefore by lawe they are not to bee aunsweared yet to shewe our sincerity in that which we holde we will make him an aunswere To the first we saye Discipline touching the substaunce is fully described out of the worde of God in the booke of discipline the treatise of ecclesiastical gouernment and in the most of the soundest writers of our time The second is answered partly by the former partly by this treatise In steed of this we aske him what be y â— writings which haue coÌ„futed by the scripture all those foresayd godly learned writings To the third we aunswere it is no sounde diuinity to exclude Christian Princes from their gouerment in Church-matters Concerning Excommunication he hath his answere before To the two other clawses let the Papists answere for they are malitiously imputed vnto vs. And we demaund of him whether it be sound diuinity that when the Prince will eate flesh in Lent or do such like shee must haue a Dispensation from an Archbyshop And that the writes of his Courts euen in causes ciuill and matters of instaunce should be in his owne name and not in the name of her most excelleÌ„t Maiesty The fourth is aunswered in the Treatise of the Eldership And we aske of him what pregnant proofe he hath either from scripture or Father that Ecclesiasticall Gouernment shoulde be exercised in a wholle Diocesse by a Chancelor or Commissarye beeing a meere lay-man To the 5. and 6. both wee aunswere That rebaptization is condemned by the Worde of God and that those hee speaketh of be maried folkes And wee require him to prooue by the Worde of God that in case of the necessity which they pretend a Woman may baptize And to prooue by the same that men may be forbidden to mary in Lent or such like times The seuenth is aunswered in that to the 5. and 6. And we demaunde of him how they can prooue it lawfull to admit a Popish priest fallen from the Gospell and still vnapt to teach To the eyght we aunswere there is the like reason of the Supper and of Baptisme And we require him to prooue by the Worde of God that a Deacon may baptize and when he hath proued that let him proue why hee may not minister the Supper also To the ninth we answere that to the Ministers there may be diuersity of rewardes giuen so long as none haue to little nor any too much And we require him to prooue by the Word of God that a Minister of the Gospell may carry the pompe of men of estate To the tenth we aunswere as is set downe in the Treatise that a Minister should be apt to teach We would haue him proue that any other may preache who is not apt to teach To the Eleuenth we answere affirmatiuely and require him to prooue by the Scriptures that an Archbyshop may put Preachers to silence for not subscribing to that which is not required by the lawe To the twelfth we aunswere it is not lawfull for one to be thrust out of his Ministery for shewing modestly in his sermons the inconuenience of vnleauened breade in the Lords Supper that all vsury as wee speake it whither biting or nibbling is vnlawfull And we require of him to prooue by the Worde of God that it is tollerable to suffer Drunkardes whoremongers ignoraunt men of occupation in the Ministry and for not subscribing where Law doth not enforce it or for the not vsing of some ceremonie to turne out godly learned Ministers And make a pitifull seperation of the Pastor and the flocke The Lorde giue vs to be of one minde and wherein we agree let vs proceede by the rule of loue FINIS Eccles 12. Iud. 9. Psalme 2. 2. Chro 16. 9 See admon ad lib. concord de mod agend Mat. 24. 48 Beza praefat before the new Testament Hermonia confess page 53. gal confess art 29. Genes 2.