vs vnto pag. 40. proued that our Ministers do not obey Christ in his ordinance of Ministery worship and Gouerment yea though it should be graunted that they execute the Ministery and Gouerment of other Arch Bishops and L. Bishops besids Christ And though they should bee Arch Deacons Parsons Vicars reading stinted prayers c. For all this may bee donne yea and they may sinne some way in doing all this and yet they may obey Christ in all the maine essentiall and substantiall pointes of his Ministery worship and Gouerment Fr. Iohn The Ministery of Christians which is opposed against and exalted aboue the holy things Ministery ordinances of Christ The 3. Arg. is the Ministery of Autichrists Apostasie 2. Thes 2.3.4 with 1. Ioh. c. Such is the Ministery of their Church Assemblies Ergo It is the Ministery of Antichrists Apostasie The Assumption is euident 1. Aman may peaceably receaue or administer their holy things in their manner by vertue of their Deacoury or Priesthoode receaued from their Prelats But if any doe administer or receaue the holy things of God by the offices of Pastors and Teachers entred into and executed according to the Testament of Christ they are reviled and persecuted 2. Their Prelacie Priesthoode and Deaconry is the very meanes of thrusting away and keeping out of the Church the Ministery and order which Christ hath appointed which some of themselues hereto fore haue acknowledged and written Answere 1. The Ministery of our Church Assemblies being answerable to the lawes is not a Ministery exalted in any thing aboue the Ministery of Christ but the very same in nature and qualitie though in some accidents it may differ In which difference if ther bee any sinne it is of ignorance or infirmitie in the Ministers which may in as high or a higher degree befall vnto the best Ministers that ever were since the Apostles times 2. The holy things which they administer are the holy things of Iesus Christ and not of their owne by vertue of that Priesthoode and Deaconry which they haue receaued they may not administer any other holy things but what Christ Iesus requireth The other things which they administer are iudged by them which administer them onely things indifferent and matters of order wherein if they which vse them be deceaved it is but such an error as worthy Martyrs of Iesus Christ haue bene subject vnto and not sufficient to make their Ministery an Antichristian Ministery 3. The Prelats doe not persecute any true Pastors and Teachers so much for Ministering any of the holy things of Christ as for refusing to conforme to some speciall ordinances of their owne which they doe not hould to bee holy things but matters of order which by reasons they haue indevoured to proue to bee so wherein the practis of Prelats is noe more extreame then their owne who censure as farr as they can in all extremity all them whoe doe not in al points conforme and agree to their owne orders ceremonies and Church policie 4. It can never bee proued that the admittance of this Ministery is a hindrance of a better but rather it is a meanes to keepe out a wors and away in time to bring in a better if a better bee to be brought in for by yealding to some things that may be bettered is so wished and indeavored a dore is opened to Minister many holy things which otherwise should bee shut And if it bee as lawfull for vs to conjecture as for him Their general Schisme and rent from this Ministery hath bene one maine and principall meanes to vphoulde it as it is Fr. Iohn The Ministery which is such as in the nature and condition therof it pertaineth not to any body or estate either civill or ecclesiasticall but only to the body or kingdome of Antichrists Apostasie The 4. Arg. Such is the Ministery of their Church Assemblies Ergo It is the Ministery of Antichrists Apostasie The Assumption is clear in as much as their Prelacie Priesthood and Deaconry is such that the Civill State may bee perfect without them and the Church of Christ may bee compleat without them onely the body and Kingdome of the Romish Antichrist cannot bee full and furnished in all the offices therof without them Answere For Answere to the Assumption 1. Concerning the Prelacie though it bee not any Ministery of any of our Church Assemblies and therfore Idly vrged in this and all the other Arguments this may bee saide 1. That the principall and most honorable parts therof is onely vsurped by Antichrist and doth not appertaine to him but to the Iurisdiction of the Supreame Magistrats and States 2. That the State of a Christian common wealth cannot bee perfect without some generall visitors and overseers of Churches 3. That though a perticuler Church or congregation may bee compleat without them yet for the necessary vnion and agreement of the severall Churches in Christian Provinces and Kingdoms it is fit and agreable to reason and noe wayes repugnant to Gods word that vnder the Supreame Magistrate ther should bee other Governors to protect and incorrage those Ministers and Churches which doe their dutie and to punish those which shall offende Wherin if either through warrant of humaine lawes or some personall corruption they shall in some things passe their bounds they doe no more then any other officers either Civill or Ecclesiasticall through frailtie infirmitie may doe 4. That the kingdome of Antichrist cannot be furnished in all the offices therof without the Authority of Civill Magistrats and therfore this seemes to make as much against the calling of civill Magistrats as Bishops 2. Concerning the Ministery of our Priests and Deacons such as it is or by lawe ought to be in our Church Assemblies the Church of Christ cannot bee compleat without it yea it is noe Church without it Nether can the kingdome of Antichrist stand before it Nether will hee ever proue the contrary Fr. Iohn The Ministery which is such as the body of Antichrist the man of sinne The 5. Arg. cannot without it be compleat in all the members and canonicall functions therof is the Ministery of Autichrists Apostasie Such is the Ministery of the Church Assemblies of Englande It is the Ministery of Antichrists Apostasie The Assumption is proued by the Canons Pontificall and estate of the Romish Antichrist Answere This Argument is but the taile of the former therfore needs noe further Answer it being cut of in the answer to the former The Canons Pontificall State of the Romish Antichrist doe manifest the countrary which haue and doe curse and persecute with sworde and fier such a Ministery as is the Ministery of our Church Assemblies if it bee in all points to the intent of the law Fr. Iohn The Ministery of Deacons Priests and Prelates which accounts it selfe to be Christs and yet indeed is such as the Kings and Rulers of the Earth may and ought to suppresse
deciding wherof as hee saith will end the controversies between him and vs. The first Demande WHether the Lord Iesus Christ haue by his last will and Testament given vnto and set in his Church sufficient ordinarie officers with their calling worke and maintenance for the administration of his holy things and for the sufficient ordinarie instruction guidance and service of his Church to the end of the worlde 1 I Answer directly vnderstanding by Officers spirituall officers that hee hath And that it is a Sinne herein to breake his will and testament ether by depriving the Church of any of those officers or by bringing into it any other kinde with any other kinde of calling or worke then hee hath appointed in the same 2. That not withstanding this the Civill Magistrate hath power to set over the Churches of Christ in his Dominions Commissioners and overseers which are not specially appointed by Christ in his Testament civilly to guide gouerne the Churches to maintaine those priviledges liberties offices orders that Christ hath endowed them with all against all the enemies both without and within the same 3. Concerning the maintenaunce of the Ministers Christ hath set downe no more in his Testament then this in effect That the labourer is worthie of his hire And that for their Ministration of Spirituall things the Churches that enjoy their labours ought to Minister to them of their Temporals But after what especiall manner they shall be maintained he hath for ought appeareth yet to the contrary ether left it to the discretion of the Churches if they haue the free disposition of their temporall goods in their owne hand or of the Christian Magistrate who in such cases may see what is fitter then the Churches themselues The second Demande Whether the Offices of Pastors Teachers Elders Deacons and Helpers be those offices appointed by Christ in his Testament before said Or whether the present ecclesiasticall offices of Arch-Bishops Lord-Bishops Suffraganes Deanes Prebendaries Cannons Pettie Cannons Priests Deacons Arch-Deacons Doctors of Divinitie Chaplins or House-Priests Commissaries Officials Proctors Apparitors Parsons Vicars Curats Vagrant or Mercenary Preachers Church-wardens Sidemen Clarkes Sextons and the rest now had in the Cathedrall and perishionall Assemblies bee those offices oppointed by Christ in his Testament as is aforesaid or no 1. I graunt that the Offices in the first place mentionned are those very offices which Christ hath appointed that there is no Church of Christ but hath vse and need of them And that such are someway defective that want any one of them 2. That yet not withstanding they may bee true Churches that want some of them yea the chiefest of them as thos Assemblies of our owne profession in England haue for many yeares as I take it bin without ether all or chiefest of them And yet they judge themselues true Churches yea though they haue not so much as the Sacraments administred amongst them 3. Where the Civill Magistrate doth his dutie as hee ought and where the Churches haue the benifit of his help for the suppressing of sinne and the relieving of the poor and those that are in any distres which the Apostolicall Churches wanted there the want of some of theis offices may bee the better borne with all and the Church lesse defective that doth want them especially the two latter 4. I graunt that none of those offices here mentioned in the latter part excepting that of Deacons are in name those offices which Christ hath appointed some of them nether in name nor in deed some in deed though not in name Some haue the name of that which indeed they are not Some though they bee set over the Churches Yet are not indeed any proper offices of the Church Some offices here named nether in deed nor name as they are such are ecclesiastical offices but onely schoole Titles and dignities giuen to men eminent in learning for incouragement of others to study good letters especially divinitie 5. All the offices appointed by Christ to bee in his Church to the end of the world in effect and substance may be found conteined vnder some of theis though somwhat disguised with strange names borrowed from the Church of Rome and the principall most necessary are vnder some of theis For many of theis which you dispitfully cal mercenary Preachers Priests House-Priests yea Parsons Vicars Curats are in very deed and truth in office practice whatsoever they are in name The very Pastors and Teachers that Christ hath ordained ministring in his Churches according to their places and callings And those gifts which Christ had bestowed vpon them al the ordinary meanes of salvation As for theis varitie of names most of them arise from that varitie of maintenance that is in our Churches and not of their spirituall offices So that in this manner to dispute against our Churches because the Ministers therof haue such such names is as though one should dispute against the Church of the Iewes in Christs time and haue denied communion with it asking whether Priests Levites and Prophets were not those officers which God had appointed to governe the Church of the Iewes with all Or whether Scribes Pharisies Saduces Captaines of the Temple Rulers of the Synagogues Doctors of the Law Centurions Souldiers the high-Priests Servants c. were those Officers Or as if one disputing against your owne Churches or those which haue though not so fully as you would haue them interteined the same discipline with you should to warrant their seperation from you their condemnation of you as false Churches move the very same question in nature vnto you Asking you whether Pastors Teachers Elders Deacons Helpers be not those Offices which Christ hath appointed in his Testament Or whether Schismaticks Refractaries lay-Aldermen Parish Bishops Consistorians Parish Popes Proctors of spitle houses Dawbers Thackers Tailers Tinkers c. be those Officers for thus it hath pleased some to put theis odious names vpon those which bearre exercise the offices of Pastors Teachers Elders c. The third Demande Whether the callings and entrance into the ecclesiasticall offices aforesaid their administration and maintenance now had and retained in England bee the manner of calling administration and maintenance which Christ hath appointed for the Offices of the Church aboue named or no Not to stand for the avoiding of multiplicity of vnnessarie questions vpon defence of the calling entrance administration and maintenaunce of all I aunswer directly and plainly That the Calling entraunce administration and maintenance of many at the least that are called into ecclesiasticall offices is in very effect and substance the same that Christ hath appointed They are men instructed in the knowledge of good Letters especially in divinitie They haue a gift in some good measure to devide the word of God according to the necessities of the people over whom they are set They haue a desire to do Christ and his Church service in his
Bishops over Bishops and their Diocesses of Bishops over Ministers and their Churches and of Ministers ouer their owne Congregations Leaving vnto them not with stāding the Superioritie of the other Pastors that maine and Substantial office of the Pastor which is enough to define and denominate a Pastor And therfore they may make such Pastors as are over whole Prouinces but two such as are over whole diocesses but 26. and yet hold also without any absurditie that their are also as many Pastors besyds as ther are Ministers of a particuler Congregation And though it should be graunted that herein they were deceaued in making Provinciall and diocesme Pastors yet the sorteing of vnproper Pastors with true or the subiecting of true Pastors vnto other sorts of Pastors doth not necessarily make the true Pastors fals soe long as vnder them they performe the name and substantiall duties of true Pastors which all the Ministers of our Church Assemblies doe or by the lawes ought to doe 2. If any hould that the Ministers of perticular Congregations onely are Pastors thē they may without any absurdity hould that they Arch Bishops and Bishops are generall Cōmissioners vnder the King to see that the Pastors doe their duties and in that regard may also Metaphorically and in another sence bee called Pastors as Princes themselves are soe called in good and approued Authors and what absurdity can follow vpon this Or what if they which hould the Ministers of perticular Congregations to bee Pastors could not tell what to make of the office of Arch Bishops and Bishops what 's that to the purpose are not our Ministers and Teachers therfore Pastors because they which shall hould them to bee soe cannot tell what to make of the Calling of Arch Bishops and Bishops 3. Though this should bee yelded vnto him that all Pastors are equall and that the Pastors of perticular Congregations are the highest ordinary Ecclesiasticall officers yet should this make nothing to the confirming of his conceit That our Ministers are not therfore true Pastors and Teachers because then Arch Bishops and Bishops should be excluded for this doth not exclude them from being Commissioners and Visitors in causes ecclesiasticall vnder the King over the Pastors and Churches of such and such Prouinces and Diocesses which is to giue thē their principall honour due 4. Concerning the Teachers office not to contende needlesly with him about the nature and quality therof but to suppose a Teacher in that sence which hee meaneth This may reasonably bee held That some of our Ministers whether Priests or Deacons so called or whether Parsons Vicars Curats or Stipendaries are Pastors and some Teachers That so many of them as haue and vse the gift not onely of doctrine and instruction but of Exhortation are Pastors That those which wanting the power of Exhortation and yet haue vse the gift of instruction and doctrine are such Teachers as hee meaneth And therfore herein also if it should bee yealded vnto him That it were fit that every Congregation should haue both theis offices and that the Teacher should be the Pastors Assistant yet it doth not follow but that in want of sufficient men for both theis offices in every Congregation some may inioy one and some an other For if the Churches of their owne way and constitution may bee without both Pastors Teachers and that for a long time till men may be chosen vnto that office Why may not a Church much more in the like necessity retaine a Pastor without a Teacher or a Teacher without a Pastor Can hee proue by any colour out of Gods word That one cannot bee called vnto or execute the office of a Pastor vntill hee haue a Teacher to assist him or that hee cannot execute the office of a Doctor except hee do it as an actuall assistant of some Pastor If not then is this a most frivolous demaunde when hee askes to whome our Teachers are adioynd for the worke of their Ministery nether doe the places hee quoteth viz. Eph. 4.11 Rō 12.7 proue any such matter 5. As idle and impertinent is that demande which followeth whether the Teachers spoken of Eph. 4.11 must first bee Deacons then Priests promise obeidience to Prelats be silenced and deposed at their pleasures For what if noe such matters bee required of Teachers by Paul either in that or any other place doth it thervpon follow that their submission to such things makes them noe Teachers may not Magistrats others also require some things of Teachers not required by the Apostles but they must needs thervpon become no Teachers But what repugnauncie is their in theis matters to the office of a Teacher To be a Deacon in the intent of our lawes what is it but as himselfe out of our booke of ordination hath in effect published it To read the Seriptures Pag. 31. to pray in the Church to Catechise the Iōger sort to baptize to preach if the Bishop shal think him sitt what is it to bee a Priest or Presbyter in our law hath not himself also taught vs viz. Pag. 32. To haue authoritie to Preach the word and to Minister the holy Sacramentes in the Congregation wher hee shal be appointed what obeidience doe they promise to Prelates in the intent of the lawe but onely in things that they shal judge honest and lawfull and not repugnaunt to the word of God what is it to bee sylenced and deposed but to forbear to Minister publiquly as themselues doe also forbeare vpon the Magistrats pleasure for the Bishops pleasure soe far as they proceede according to the lawes is the Magistrats pleasure otherwise it is but a personall fault And wherein Imarvaile doe any of these acts so oppugne the office of a Teacher that they cannot stand together wher doth Paul forbid any of theis acts vnto the Teacher or if hee should doth euery Act forbidden to a Teacher make him noe Teahcer Fr. Iohn pag. 14. Wheras some alledge that the people were to hear the Scribs and Pharesees sitting in Moses Chayre it is to bee noted that they were Leuits and Priests and therfore had the true offices appointed by Moses This therfore is nothing for a fals Ministery such as theirs is proued to bee further to bee a Pharefye was not to haue a new kinde of Ministery but to bee of a speciall Sect amongst the Iewes that pretended more strict observances of the law and might bee of any Tribe Lastly though the were corrupt yet did the hould that very true Minister must bee from heauen and this haue the forward Preachers acknowledged as T. C. pag. 83. Answere Here absurdly and Childishly hee goeth about to answer such an objection as noe body ever made against any thing contained in the former Argument This Argument onely is vsed in generall to shewe that some corruptions in Ministers and Churches are not of that nature that men should therfore seperate from all
onely that which they iudge lawfull being as ready as any of the seperatiō to suffer rather then practis approue or assent vnto any thing which they judge vnlawfull and vnwarrantable Obj. But suppose they had some other lawfull calling yet they also retaining this vnlawfull calling of the Prelats this were but to halt betweene two opinions and to set their threshould by Gods threshoulds and their posts by Gods posts Ans How can such bee said to retaine the vnlawfull calling of the Prelats which protest against the same professe that they preach not by that but by another calling But if ther bee any such that exercise their Ministery by another calling besids that of the Prelats they therin refuse obeidience and conformitie to what soever in the Prelats calling they judge vnlawfull and so doe not joyne an vnlawfull and a lawfull calling together but reject the corruptions retaine the good and supplie the defect with another calling and this is the worste that can bee made of it But this is not to joyne mans Treshoulds to Gods c. but clean contrary to seperate them as much as may bee And how can they bee saide to halt betweene two opinions when so far onely as the truth in their iudgement and opinion is established by publique lawes they imbrace it acknowledging their subjection to the same lawes and contrarily wher they judge that the law swerves from the truth they take another course But still hee begs this which is the maine controversie that our Ministers haue receaued an vnlawfull calling from the Prelates In the next place hee labors to proue by reasons that howsoever some pretend another calling yet it is evident that the execute all the duties of their Ministeries by virtue of their calling taken from their Prelats But what of that This will stand him in noe steed vnlesse it bee given him of almes That every Ministery executed by virtue of a calling taken from the Prelats is an vnlawfull and an Antichristian Ministerie For proue it hee cannot And if wee should except this also bee given him That our Ministery is executed ONLY by virtue of a calling taken from the Prelats and not by any other power or virtue besids taken either from God or man But let vs see his reasons 1. They cannot stand publique Ministers except they receaue of the Prelats the Priesthood and Deaconry a foresaid 2. They are excommunicated ipso facto if they affirme that they whoe are made Bishops Deacons and Priests are not lawfully made vntill thie haue some other calling 3. The people haue not the liberty of the Churches of Christ nor power in this their estate to chose and submit vnto the true and lawfull Ministery appointed by Christ 4. Without and against the peoples consent they are by the Prelats a lone silenced depriued and degraded from exercisiing any Ministery in those Assemblies Theis reasons doe not proue That they exercise their ministery ONLY by virtue of a calling receaved frō the Prelats and therfore whether true or fals are nothing to the purpose and vnworthy any further Answer After this hee fetcheth another Rode out and laboureth to proue that our Ministers ought not to suffer themselues to bee silenced and deposed from their publique Ministery no not by lawfull Magistrats which is not onely fals and seditious as shall appeare afterwarde but idle and impertinent to the present controversie for if it were true that Ministers ought not to doe in this case as ours doe yet this doth not argue any corruption in the calling of their Ministery but a weacknesse onely in the Persons that execute it in yealding further from their owne right then they neede to doe But let vs consider the perticulers that hee objecteth against our Ministers in this respect Obj. The Apostles being true Ministers of Christ would not at the commandement of lawfull Magistrats leaue to preach much lesse should true Ministers at the appointement of vsurping Prelats Nether did the Apostles make their imediate calling from God the ground of their refusall but this That they ought to obey God rather then man which is a duty required of all Ministers and Christians Ans 1. Wher hee distinguisheth between silencing depriving by Prelats and lawfull Magistrats it is in our case wher the Prelats doe it by Authority and commission from lawfull Magistrats a distinction without a difference 2. Though the Apostles did not assigne their imidiate calling from God as the ground of their refusall in so many letters and sillables yet that which they doe assigne is by implication and in effect the same with it for it is as much as if they had said God himselfe hath imposed this calling vpon vs and not man therfore except wee should rather obey man then God wee may not forbeare this office which hee hath imposed vpon vs. For opposing the obeidience of God to the obeidience of man hee therin pleads a calling from God and not from man otherwise if they had receaved a calling from man there had bene incongruitie in the answer considering that in common sence and reason they ought so far forth to obey men forbidding them to exercise a calling as they exercise the same by virtue of that calling els by this reason A Minister should not ceas to preach vpon the commandemēt of the Church that hath chosen him but should be bound to giue them also the same answer which they Apostles gaue which were absurd So that by this grosse conceit of M. Iohnsons their should bee no power in any sort of men whomsoever to depose a Minister from his Ministery but that notwithstāding any comandement of Church or State the Minister is to continue in his Ministery But for the further answer of this his ignorant conceit plainly tending to sedition wee are to know That though the Apostles Prophets and Euangelists preached publiquely where they were not hindred by open violence And did not nor might not leaue their Ministery vpon any humain Authoritie and commandement whatsoever because they did not enter into or exercise the same vpon the will and pleasure of any man whatsoever yet they never erected and planted publique Churches and Ministeries in the face of the Magistrate whether they would or noe or in dispite of them But such in respect of the eye of the Magistrat were as private and invisible as might bee Neither were some of the Apostles onely forbidden so as others should bee suffered to preach the same Ghospel in their places but the vtter abolishing of Christian Religion was manifestly intended in the silencing of them But our Churches wherof wee are Ministers are noe private secreat Assemblies such as hide themselues from the face of a persecuting Magistrat and State But are publique professing their worship doing their religion in the face of the Magistrate and State yea and by his contenance authoritie and protection And wee are set over those Churches not onely by a calling of
our people but also by the authoritie of the Magistrate who hath an armed power to hinder any such publique Action who is willing also to permitte and maintaine other true Ministers of the Gospel in those places where hee forbiddeth some If therfore after our publique calling to Minister to such a knowne and publique Church but by the Magistrat also The Magistrate shall haue matter against vs whether just or injust it skilleth not and shall in that regard forbid vs to Minister to our Church I see not by what warrant in Gods word wee should thinke our selues bounde not withstanding to exercise our Ministery still Except wee should thinke such a law of Ministery to ly vpon vs that wee should judge our selues bound to run vpon the sword point of the Magistrate or to oppose sword to sworde It being not the vse of the higher powers in such cases nakedly to forbid but to set a sword to the breast therby to force them which shall refuse And suppose the Magistrate should doe it injustly and against the will of the Church and should therin sinne yet doth not the Church in that regard ceas to bee a Church nor ought shee therin to resist the will of the Magistrate Nether doth shee stand bound in regard of her affection to her Minister how great and deserved soever to deprive her selfe of the protection of the Magistrat by leauing her publique standing to follow her Ministery in private and the darke refusing the benefit of all other publique Ministery which with the leaue and liking of the Magistrate shee may injoy Nether doe I knowe what warrant any ordinarie Minister hath by Gods worde in such a Case so to draw any such Church or people to his private Ministery that therby they should hazzard their outward state and quiet in the Common wealth wher they liue when in some competent Measure they may publiquely with the grace and fauours of the Magistrat inioy the ordinarie meanes of their Salvation by another and except hee haue a calling to Minister to some other Church to bee content to live as a private member till it should please God to reconcile the Magistrate vnto him and so call him againe to his owne Church laboring in meane while privately vpon perticuler occasions offred to strengthen and cofirme in the wayes of God those people that are deprived of his publique labours and I take it to bee the dutie of the people in such a case if they will approue themselues faithfull Christians and good Subjects so to submit to the Ministery of another as that by prayer and all other good dutifull and loyall meanes they may doe their best indevour to obtaine him of whom against their will they haue bene deprived and still to affect and loue him as their Pastor Now if the people doe thus then is that Minister called to bee silent not onely by the Magistrate but by them also though with much greife Obj. It is the dutie of all Ministers and Christians as will as Apostles to obey God and not man when man forbiddeth that which God commandeth or commandeth that which God forbiddeth Ans True but God noe wher that I can find commaundeth either a Minister to Minister publiquely in a publique Church maintained by the Magistrate against the will and in despite of the Magistrate noe more then against the will and in despite of the Church it selfe Obj. Vriah at the commaundement of the King made an Alter after the fashion of that of Damascus but therin sinned though hee offred theron such burnt-offrings as God had appointed much lesse may the Ministery vnder the Gospell bee framed after any nue manner devised by man least of all after Antichrist though in that Ministery many doctrines of the Gospell bee taught and such Sacraments administred as God hath ordained Ans This Example of Vriah the Priest is altogether impertinent vnto that which goeth before It being one thing vpon the commaundement of the Magistrate to forbeare the publique exercise of a true Ministery another thing vpon his commaundement to frame a nue Ministery after a nue manner devized by man or Antichrist After this hee runs out of his way againe to satisfie an objection that hee had propounded and indevoured as far as his learning would giue him leaue to answer before And which doth nothing at all depend vpon any thing that goeth before in this Argument wherin hee resembles some wanton Curs that takes delight to turne round about to catch their owne tailes But let vs see what it is hee saith Obj. Here againe concerning such as plead that they teach the truth and many excellent points of Doctrine It is to bee observed that yet none may therfore heare their Ministery vnder Coler of learning the truth because in yealding to receaue and heare it from Antichrists Ministery They defile the Temple of God and become the Subjects of Antichrist pag. 75. Ans Wher hee againe taketh it as matter that must whether wee will or noe bee graunted vnto him That our Ministery is Antichrists Ministery which needs noe other answer then before yet thus much further 1. That noe Ministery whatsoever so far forth as it teacheth the truth of Christ especially a truth opposite to the doctrine of Antichrist is the Ministery of Antichrist And those which shall submit and subject themselues vnto any Ministery whatsoever onely so far forth as they Minister and teach such truth cannot therin bee said to defile the Temple of God or to bee Subjects of Antichrist but bee obedient to Iesus Christ 2. Our Ministery in divers Congregations of the land at the least Teach not onely many excellent points of doctrin But so much doctrine as is sufficient to the Salvation of him that beleeueth the same even all the maine fundamentall points of Salvation clearly set downe in Gods word yea and for ought any can proue to the countrary All other lesse necessary points so far forth as God hath revealed and convinced their consciences of the truth of them 3. Those amongst vs who make conscience of hearing our Ministery doe not heare them vnder a Colour of learning the truth but onely to this very end and purpose that they might learne the truth and therin the true way of serving and worshipping God according to his owne will Obj. And not to speake of the many errors falshoods which they also teach it is no nue thing that the Ministers of Antichrist should in diuers things teach and bring the truth with them for when Sathan cannot by falshood vtter his wares ordinaunces Ministery worship hee will bee glad to vtter the same by teaching the truth pag. 75.76 Ans 1. Our Errors whether for weight or member or qualitie are not such so great so many but they may be fall vnto true Christians whether Ministers or people yea as M. Iohnson well knoweth many of the Martyrs of Iesus Christ haue liued and died in more and greater Errors of the