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A14258 The hundred and ten considerations of Signior Iohn Valdesso treating of those things which are most profitable, most necessary, and most perfect in our Christian profession. Written in Spanish, brought out of Italy by Vergerius, and first set forth in Italian at Basil by Cœlius Secundus Curio, anno 1550. Afterward translated into French, and printed at Lions 1563. and again at Paris 1565. And now translated out of the Italian copy into English, with notes. Whereunto is added an epistle of the authors, or a preface to his divine commentary upon the Romans.; Consideraciones divinas. English Valdés, Juan de, d. 1541.; Ferrar, Nicholas, 1592-1637.; Herbert, George, 1593-1633. 1638 (1638) STC 24571; ESTC S119070 234,477 356

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many words cannot want much vanity Next these great Writers have drawne all the Sriptures to Questions and Disputations and made as it were an Academy thereof raising such doubts in every thing as they have made the Doctrine of the Son of God and of his Apostles and our most certaine and infallible hope of Eternall life to become a matter altogether doubtfull And this which I shall now adde is not of lesse importance then the other inconveniences and that is that with their ample and infinite volumes they have withdrawn and estranged men from the study of the truly holy Scriptures and from the Contemplation of simple verity and instead of Christ's Disciples have made them mens Scholars So that we are come to that passe as more and greater credit is given to those which are termed Doctors as if so be Christ and his Apostles were not the true and Eternall Doctors and masters of the Church then to the simple Doctrine of Christ himselfe This is the benefit and the edification that the Church hath reaped from these huge volumes which our Lord and Saviour Iesus Christ seeing the safety of his Church being more deare unto him then his owne life hee hath stirred and raised up some and opened their eyes to the intent that they should by litle and litle reduce his sheepe to the greene and healthfull pastures of holy Scripture and to the pure cleare and sweet Fountaines of God's Word And herein every one hath busied himselfe according to his talent that is the gift which hee hath received But to me it seemes and I hope it will doe so likewise to a●… that have a true relish of Christs Doctrine that this our Author in these divine Considerations and some other writings of his hath so well considered and propounded to all our Considerations the duties of a Christian man that there are but a few very few that can goe before him He hath not indeed writ so huge a Volume nor scribled so much paper No the Bookes which he hath written are litle and few but pure cleare and truly Divine Many have written of the vertues manners and duties of a wise and good man as Aristotle Panetius and Cicero and amongst Christians Ambrose and in our age Thomas Venatorius But none of all these hath intreated with such sublimity nor made such effectuall demonstration nor discoursed with such sweetnesse nor with such Maiesty nor with such authority nor with such grace as our Valdesso This this is that which truly deserves to be entitled the Booke of Christian duties the Booke of Christian demon●…rations and of truly divine speculations Herein is shewed the Originall the Cause the Progresse and the End of every motion of every action of every event that is done under heaven either by God or the Divell or by the godly or by the wicked man and all this from cleare certaine and unquestionable Principles of holy Scrip●…ure accompanied with so good and proper examples and similitudes and compassions and divisions and definitions that unlesse we will be too too obstinate and out of common sense we must needs come to agreement touching that which a man owes unto God to himselfe and to his Neighbour And further what the benefit of Christ is and to whom it is profitable what the infirmity and what the Power of Christ is his abasement an●… his exaltation our owne Mortification and our Vivification Election and Reprobation and a thousand other like good and profitable heads are here to be clearly learned in such manner as growing practique in this Booke you shall come to understand all things necessary to holy Scripture better then by the great and many Commentaries of many others Now for this great and heavenly treasure we are all debtors to M. Peter Paul Vergerius as the instrument of the divine Providence in causing it to be printed for the view enioyment of every one He comming from Italy and leaving his feigned Bishoprick to come unto a true Apostleshippe whereunto he was called by Christ brought with him many excellent compositions doing herein as men use to doe when their houses are on fire or their City sack'd and ruin'd every one endeavours to escape away with the best and most precious things that he hath so our Vergerius esteeming nothing more deare then the glory of our Lord and Saviour Iesus Christ brought away with him those things which might best serve to the illustration and enlargement thereof Hee abandoned therefore the earthly treasures and brought away with him the heavenly and divine treasures amongst which this is one of the best and most rare that can be imagined And knowing that good and excellent things become so much greater better and more praise-worthy as they become more common hee left unto me these hundred and ten Considerations that I should cause them to be put in print which I have as you see accordingly performed with as much diligence as I have known or beene able to use These Considerations as many well know were first written by the Author in the Spanish language but afterward by a certaine pious and worthy person translated into Italian Yet have they not beene able altogether to quit those forms of speech which are proper to Spain And besides there are some words though not many of the language of the Author For Iohn Valdesso was by Natiō a Spaniard of noble kindred of an honourable degree and a resplendent Chevali●…r of the Emperour but a much more honourable resplendent Chevalier of Christ. True it is he did not much follow the Court after that Christ had revealed himselfe unto him but abode in Italy spending the greatest part of his life at Naples where with the sweetnesse of his Doctrine and the sanctity of his life hee gained many Disciples unto Christ and especially among the gentlemen and Cavaliers and some Ladies he was very eminent and most praise-worthy in all kind of praise It seemed that hee was appointed by God for a Teacher and Pastor of noble and illustrious Personages Although hee was of such benignity and charity that hee accounted himselfe debtor of his Talent to every me ane and rude person and became all things to all men that he might gaine all to Christ. And not this alone but he gave light to some of the most famous Preachers of Italy which I very well know having conversed with them themselves He never had wife but lived most continently nor did he attend to ought else as much as he could then unto tru●… Mortification in which death overtaking him hee became perfectly mortified so to b●… perfectly quickned in the Resurrection of the Iust and to enioy our Lord Christ. He died in Naples about the yeare 1540. Hee hath left behinde him also certaine other good and pious Compositions which as I hope shall by Vergerius his meanes be communicated ●…nto you Goe to then Brethren and Sisters in the Love of God and in the precious blood of
superstitious works If this which thou saist be true what need were there to make mention of works Were it not better that the Scripture stood solid in saying that whosoever shall believe shall be saved and whosoever shall not believe shall be condemned To them I will answer three things The first that from their not understanding the Scriptures it proceeds that they finde inconstancy in them and they would not finde it if they understood them they should understand them if they would not understand them with prudence and humane reason which is incapable of the things which are of the spirit of God such as are the holy Scriptures The second That God having as it hath been said to iustifie his sentence before men who see not but the outward it is necessary that hee should alleage the works which are outward those which give testimony of the Faith of him who believes and of the infidelity of him who believes not And the third That all men being most ready to work evill and most slow to work well it seems a necessary thing that the holy Scripture should use this manner of speech to refrain the pronesse to evill and to incite the slownesse to good to the end that as they who now feel the Regeneration and Christian renovation should depart from evill and apply themselves to the good onely for the duty of the selfesame regeneration and renovation to observe the Christian decorum not to grieve nay rather to reioyce the holy spirit So they also who begin to feel themselves regenerated and renued shoul doe the selfesame to make firm their vocation and to work their salvation And that should they also doe who doe not know the regeneration nor renovation for feare of being condemned And so even these should be lesse evill And they being lesse evill should be more good for their proper interest untill such time as having begun to feele the affections of the Christian regeneration and renovation they also may be good not doing evill and doing good not now for feare and for interest but onely for the duty of Christian persons incorporated in Iesus Christ our Lord to whom be glory forever CONSID. XCIX Whence it proceeds that men b●…eve not that all our sinnes were chastised in Christ or they believe is with difficultie COnsidering the extreme difficulty wherewith men bring themselves tobelieve the Gospell the good news of the Remission of sinnes iustification and reconciliation with God for the iustice of God executed on Christ For as much as they also who believe by revelation and divine inspiration finde more difficulty in believing this Remission of sinnes Iustification Reconciliation then all other things besides which the Christian Church believes I haue many times set my selfe to think whence this difficulty may proceed And lastly I am come to this resolution that to believe this Remission of sinnes Iustification and Reconciliation a man findes in himselfe the contradiction of his evill conscience and from hence it comes that with extreme difficulty they who belieue by divine Revelation and divine Inspiration bring thēselves to hold themselves for just They who believe by opinion and relation being never able to bring themselves to this They who believe being inspired untill they finde peace in their consciences doe not entirely belieue the Gospell And finding peace in their consciences the inward contradiction ceasing the difficulty of believing the Gospell is taken away They who believe being taught as they never finde peace in their consciences they never believe the Gospell For the inward contradiction never ceaseth that not ceasing neither doth the difficulty in belieuing cease nay whilst the contradiction lasteth the difficulty may be called impossibility Men doe easily believe by relation of holy Scriptures that God is most omnipotent most just They believe that Christ is most innocent and pure from all sin They believe that Christ suffered by the will of God for in none of these things they finde inward contradiction which sufficeth to cause that they should not believe that which holy Scriptures affirme And not to exclude the benefit of Christ they believe also that Christ satisfied for originall sin for neither in this doe they finde contradiction in as much as their consciences not accusing them of originall sin they not knowing their own proper fault therein they easily bring themselves to believe that without their proper merit that is pardoned unto them wherein they know not their own 〈◊〉 And when it comes to the point to believe that Christ satisfied God for the sinnes that every one of them commits albeit they haue the Scriptures which most largely giue testimony thereof nay all they in conformity preach this suddenly they draw back because they finde the inward contradiction in their own consciences and so they resolve to restrain the benefit of Christ only to originall sin understanding it after their own manner or to enlarge it also to their proper sinnes but with the addition of proper satisfaction As if Christ had said I haue satisfied for the sins of you all but with condition that every one should satisfie for his own And they consider not the injury which herein they doe to Christ they consider it not because they feel it not and they feel it no●… because they know not Christ. They who by Gods gift believe that God is most iust that Christ is most innocent that it was the work of God that Christ should suffer and that he suffered for originall sin in the end reduce themselves to believe that through Christs sufferings they get remission of sinnes and are iust and are now in the grace of God reconciled with God considering in this manner if God be most just if Christ be most innocent if that which Christ suffered he suffered by the will of God and the will of God was that hee should satisfie for originall sin it is also true that men who haue obtained the whole pardon of their sins are iust and are reconciled with God since from originall sin it comes to all to be sinners uniust and enimies of God and it comes for us to doe things whereby we grow in iniustice in enmity With this Consideration they pacifie their consciences and facilitate their believing and hold for certain that they who doe not believe this either doe not believe that God is most iust or doe not hold that Christ is most innocent or doe not believe that it was Gods will that Christ should suffer for if they did believe it they would believe that which followes that is that he suffered not for himselfe but for them and so would holde themselves for Iust. Here I understand all this First the blindnesse of humane wisdome which is not capable of the truth which the Gospell preacheth Secondly the ignorance of men who not understanding whence this incapacity comes doe not attend to remedy but to cover it Thirdly that Christ satisfying for originall sin he
on getting that which they see in their new good and heavenly Father leaving both to appeare and to be like their mother And as before they came unto the kingdome of God●… they had and represented in them the image the likenesse of depraved nature so likewise being entered into the kingdome of God they haue and represent in themselves the image and similitude of God recovering that which the first man lost By this I understand in what sort a man was created unto the likenesse and similitude o God and in what doth consist the benefit that men haue received by Iesus Christ our Lord. CONSID. XXXV Whence it is that that difficulty comes which pious persons haue to continue in that whith appertaines to Piety and Justification Considering that the duty of Piety is for a man to content himselfe of every thing which God doth perswading himselfe and holding for certain that all that so comes to him is Good and Holy and Iust And believing that all that which comes to passe in this present life comes to passe by divine providence without admitting that anything should come to passe by chance And considering that the duty of Christian Faith is to accept with his minde and to confesse with his mouth the Gospell of Iesus Christ our Lord. And seeing on one side in many men that haue not the spirit much conformity to the will of God in such manner that they neither grieve themselves nor resent out of measure the death of those persons whom they greatly loue nor for the losse of goods nor for the losse of Honour and that they themselves are content to dye And seeing likewise in many other men that haue not the spirit much acceptation and much confession of the Gospell without any scruple of doubt at all And seeing on the other side that some spirituall persons grieve themselves resent themselves and are very sorrowfull for the death of those persons whom they loved for other inconveniences that befall them and they cannot bring themselves to be willing to dye and that they feel the losse of estate and the losse of Honour And seeing also in other persons who haue the spirit much wavering in the acceptation and confession of the Gospell that they cannot certifie nor confirm themselves of all that is therein I haue many times set my self to consider the causes whence these contrary effects should proceed forasmuch as it seems that in him who hath not the spirit there should not be conformity with the will of God nor should he giue credit to the Gospel and in him that hath the spirit there ought to be both the one and the other And after I haue considered the matter I understand that however flesh doth sometimes a litle contradict flesh yet in the end flesh suffers her selfe to be overcome and subdued by the flesh whereupon there being a man that hath not the spirit as well an aff●…ction of the flesh willing to conform it selfe with God as to grieve to be sorrowfull and to resent it selfe for the inconveniences that offer themselves in this present life it comes to passe that one affection overcomming the other it seems that such a man doth conform himself with the will of God and it is not true For hee doth not conform himselfe but with his own proper will by which for his own satisfaction and for his own designes he doth determine to content himselfe of every thing and to cōform himselfe in all things with the will of God That this is true wee read in many Books of the Gentiles and we heare and see it in many other Nations altogether Infidels and others that counterfeit faith Likewise I understand that there being a man that hath not the spirit as well an affection of the flesh to accept and confesse the Gospell as not accept nor confesse it it comes to passe that one affection overcomming the other it seems that such an one believes the Gospell and it is not true for he doth not belieue but only his own opinion and imagination as the Iew that stands stubborn in his Law and as the Moore that believes his Alcoran On the other side I understand that the flesh alwaies repugnes against the spirit alwaies contradicts it and alwaies struggles with it by reason of the great enmity that is between them two Whereupon it comes to passe that there being in a man that hath the spirit an affection of the spirit that makes him willing to conform himselfe with the will of God contenting himself of every thing that God doth and repugning and contrasting with the flesh which suffers not it selfe to be overcome but after a long space it comes to passe that the man who hath the spirit laments resents and is grieved for the corporall incommodities and for all those other things in which the flesh suffers and aboue all things for death even as we see that the saints of the Law did grieue themselues and as S. Paul a Saint of the Gospell would haue resented it as himselfe saith if that friend of his had died and as the proper son of God our Lord God Iesus Christ did resent himselfe In like manner I understand that there being in the man which hath the spirit an affection of the spirit to be willing to accept and confesse the Gospell and the Flesh repugning and contradicting because it hath no part in such desire nor in such will it comes to passe that a man that hath the spirit feels a weaknesse in his faith goes wavering and doubting in it as wee haue read in some Saints and as we our selues see it in others in such sort that as from the small contradiction which the affections of the flesh haue amongst themselues there comes forth an appearance of Piety and appearance of Faithin them that haue not the spirit so from the great contradiction that is between the Flesh and the Spirit there proceeds in them that haue the spirit a weaknesse in faith that befalling in a man which befalls in the world in a Province or in a common-wealth I would say that as it comes to passe that when any person speaketh or publisheth any thing with an affectiō of the spirit he presently findes a contrast a contradiction and outward persecution although it be a thing which is ordinarily spoken practised but without the spirit and out of humane affections so likewise when a man goes about through the motion of the spirit to perswade himselfe and confirme himselfe in any thing pertaining to piety or iustification he suddenly findes an inward contrast and contradiction for his own affections his own appetites which are mortall enemies to the spirit rise up against him And this comes to passe not withstāding that the selfe same things haue been formerly accepted and believed of him by his own proper affection and opinion Whereupon I gather this conclusion That it is a signe that it is the holy Spirit which
might practise and converse with all sorts of people If Christ had taken S. Iohn Baptists forme of life the Publicans sinners and harlots would have been ashamed to speak unto him nay verily if he would observe decorum he was bound not to speak nor converse with them if he had taken Moses his forme of life base and vulgar persons could not have practised and conversed with him by reason of his greatnesse And therefore it was necessary he should take that forme of life which he took wherein he might practise and converse as he did practise and converse with all sorts of people in so much as he was for this calumniated by them who made profession of holinesse The fourth cause is this Christ coming to Preach the Kingdome of God and to put himselfe in the possession thereof and the Kingdome of God consisting as S. Paul saith in justice peace and joy in the Holy Ghost it was necessary that by his example he should shew unto us a forme of life much to this purpose to maintaine us in the justice and in the peace and in the joy of the Kingdome of God If Christ had taken S. Iohn Baptist his forme of life which was by the world approved for holy for the world is so discreet that it esteemes them who esteeme not it he should have put his imitators in competency with the Saints of the world and if Christ had taken Moses his forme of living which is procured by the men of the world he should have put his imitators in competency with the men of the world and therefore it was necessary that forme of life which he took which is of such quality as they who imitate him conserve themselves in their justice in their peace and in their joy For coming not in competency with the Saints of the world nor with the men of the world they are not deprived of the possession which they have of the Kingdome of God The Fift cause is this that Christ having to suffer for our sinnes a cruell death shamefull and publique and uniust not voluntary it was necessary he should take a forme of life that was fit to come to this effect If Christ had taken S. Iohn Baptist his forme of life although the fame of holinesse would not have freed him from a cruell death as it did not free Saint John Baptist it would have freed him from a shamefull and publique death as it did free S. Iohn Baptist. And if Christ had taken Moses his forme of life albeit the greatnesse of the estate would not have freed him from violent death as it hath not freed many great men of the world it would have freed him from a shamefull and publique death and therefore it was necessary that he should take that forme of life wherein dying shamefully he did ennoble shame and dying publiquely he certifies all of us that we might know it may believe our iustification of which thing we ought to be most assured The Sixt is this that Christ coming to preach and to give inward regeneration and renovation which things presuppose mortification it was necessary hee should take a forme of life very accommodate to mortification to shew with it and by it the proper way of mortification If Christ had taken S. Iohn Baptist his forme of life he should have well shewen the way of the mortification of the body by the asperity of life but not that of the mortification of the mind for the reputation which this forme of life hath in the world And if Christ had taken Moses his forme of living he should not have shewed either the one or the other mortification and therefore it was necessary that he should take that forme of life which he took in which much better then in any other a man gets the mortification of the mind and by that of the mind that of the body in as much as the world holds for vile them who without making profession of outward holinesse live holily and despiseth these as a most base thing and in as much as after this despising comes the mortification of the body And so in them that imitate the forme of Christs living is certain and perfect mortification In these six causes I learn six things The first that he who by consideration of Christs life would know him to be the sonne of God must of necessity mortify the judgement of his human wisdome The Second that no man can excuse himselfe saying that he cannot imitate the forme of Christs living The third that then a Christian is most like to Christs living when he hath a forme of life more apt to make that all sorts of people may practise and converse with him The fourth that that forme of living is most apt to make that a man in it should conserve himself in the possession of the kingdome of God that comes not in competency with no sort of men neither of the Saints of the world nor of the men of the world The fift that that form of life is most like to that of the sonne of God that is most exposed to martyrdome And the Sixt that that forme of life is most proper and able to obtain the Christian mortification which is most despised in the eyes of the world in which without making profession of outward holinesse a man lives holy And of the things which have been spoken I take this resolutiō that they who live holily without making profession of outward holmesse are very much habilitated and exposed to martyrdome doe conserve nthemselves very well in the kingdome of God are fit to converse with all sorts of people imitating the forme of life which Christ held and deceive humane wisdome and therefore it properly appertaines to them that which S. Paul saith Colos. 3. Ye are dead your life is hid with Christ in God to whom be glory for ever Amen I will adde this that Christ conserving himselfe in that forme of life in which he was borne being borne the son of God untill that he dyed by the will of God teacheth us that we shall doe well conserving our selves in that forme of life in which we found our selves when we are called to be the sons of God So be it that in that we attend to reduce our forme of life as much as may be possible for us answerable to that forme of life which Christ held in this world in such manner as in us may shine out intirely the image and similitude of Iesus Christ our Lord. CONSID. XC In what the Christian perfection the Duty and Decorum doe consist I Have oftimes said that Christian perfection consists in this that a man incorporated in Christ in his death and in his resurrection should live according to the Christian Duty keeping the Christian decorum understanding that so much shall a man get Christian perfection in as much as he shall live according to Christian duty keeping christian decorum Now I
say that then a man lives according to christian duty and keepes christian decorum when he imploies himselfe in those things in which Christ would have imployed himselfe And consequently I say that then a man departs from the christian duty leaves to observe christian decorum when he i●…ploies himselfe those things where in Christ would not have imployed himselfe in such manner as to him who would obtain Christian perfection desirous to apprehend that dignity in which he is comprehended it appertaines to live in all things and altogether according to the Christian duty and to observe the Christian decorum setting before his eyes all the life of Christ constituting his duty and his decorum in being in every thing and altogether like unto Christ doing only that which Christ would doe and by no meanes doing what Christ would not doe Passing on farther I say that as I understand that Men whilest they are as the Scripture termes them flesh and bloud can by no meanes attain to so great perfection as that which is known in Christ. So also I understand that to all them who know and feele themselves incorporated in the death of Christ and in the resurrection of Christ it appertaines to fix their eyes upon this so high perfection to pretend to obtaine it and in effect to procure it For to this I understand the Holy Spirit moves and conducts them to whom Christ is communicated Here I gaine two things the one that from henceforth I shall attribute to weaknesse of my Flesh all that which I shall doe which Christ would not have done And all that which I shall leave undone which Christ would not have left undone And I will attribute unto the force and efficacy of the Christian spirit all that which I shall doe which Christ would have done and all that which I shall leave undone which Christ would have left undone not excusing my selfe in that which shall proceed from mine infirmity weaknesse nor waxing proud for that which shall proceed from the force and efficacy of the Christian spirit The other thing which I gaine is that from this day forward I shall not goe examining as it were to say what is lawfull holding that to be a matter of servants and slaves And I will goe viewing and reviewing as it were to say what is expedient holding that to be for sonnes And I will hold it for a thing convenient and expedient for me to live according to the Christian duty to observe Christian decorum regarding this duty and this decorum as it were to say in the face of Christ in all that which is written of him and in all that which by the things which are written and by that which I shall experiment in mee I shall be able to gather from his divine perfections In these two things I understand other two The one that they doe not know the Christian Dignity who goe procuring to cover with pretence of christian Piety those things which they doe through weaknesse and infirmity of the flesh And the other that they doe not know themselves for sons of God who goe examining what is lawfull This being certain that they who know the christian dignity doe with good will manifest confesse that which is of the weaknesse and infirmity of their flesh And that●… they who know themselves for sons of God being ashamed to examine what is lawfull goe observing what is expedient attributing to their proper infirmity and weaknesse all that which they doe and all that which they leave to doe Attending to what is Lawfull and going out of what is expedient out of which they who know themselves for sons of God and know the christian dignity doe never procure to goe The weaknesse and infirmity I understand we have it all of us in the body and in the minde To the weaknesse and infirmity of the body I understand appertaine all those things in which we doe delicately and with corporall delight serve unto our corporall necessities And to the infirmities and weaknesses of the minde I understand appertain all those things in which we have intent to satisfy unto the eyes of the world in such sort as I travelling on horse-back doe delicately serve unto the necessities of my body a thing which Christ did not ordinarily And this is a weaknesse and infirmity of my body And procuring that my riding on horse should be polite and well furnished I have intent to satisfy the eyes of the world and this is a weaknesse and infirmity of my minde This example may be extended to all other things which we deale about in this present life Whereupon it is fit to advertize that they who begin to conforme their lives in outward and corporall things with that of Christ run hazard of never getting the conformity in the inward which is the essentiall and to fall into vaine-glory and presumption And therefore it is needfull that every person called of God to the grace of the Gospell should begin to conforme himselfe to Christ's living in the inward as it were to say in the obedience to God in the meeknesse in the humility of minde and in the charity and afterwards attend to conforme himselfe also with the living of Christ in the outward but so much as the outward shall helpe him and serve him to grow in the inward For this is that which principally pleaseth God and Iesus Christour Lord. CONSID. XCI That only the Sonnes of God have certain satisfactionn in every thing BY one of the three waies all men come unto the things as well those which pertaine to piety as unto all other things By our own wills against our own wills and by the favour of God In those things unto which we come by our own will there is designe in those things whereunto we come against our wills there is passion in those things whereunto we come by the favour of God there is admiration The sons of Adam never finde certain and firme satisfaction in those things unto which pretending piety they come with designe For their designes goe founded in selfe-interest and in selfe-love And holding this foundation when their designes hit not out to them they cannot stand with satisfaction how much soever they perswade themselves to remain satisfied and would shew it to others That this is true they know by proper experience who with designe pretend piety changing their manner of living of state and of condition or doe occupy exercise themselves more in one thing then in another The sons of God doe then finde certain satisfaction and firme in those things unto which they come by their own proper will with designe when their designe is either to helpe the mortification and the vivification into which they have begun to enter by the favour of God or is to serve Christ in his members That this is true they understand by proper experience who holding themselves for dead in the crosse of Christ doe attend