untill they came to years of knowledg and understanding Even so baptizing of children as well as men and women of discretion may be accompanied with the presence of Christ unto the standers by unto the administrators and Witnesses of the thing done and do service for the present upon them and upon children also when they are capable to understand the Mysteries of God imported therein As for that passage in this your second consideration wherein you say that Baptism with water c. is an Ordinance and command of Christ Serving the Grand Interest of Remission of sins Mr. Lamb. and salvation in some sense SECT XXXIII IF by serving the grand-interest of remission of sins and salvation in some sense be meant only this Reply How baptisme serveth the interest of Remission of Sins and how not that as the other Ordinances of Jesus Christ preaching prayer c. do serve or subserve unto these grand ends mentioned we are all brethren in this precious faith together with you We do believe that all Gods Ordinances and consequently this of baptism do accommodate and serve the grand-interest of remission of sins and salvation in some sense though every one in its own order and manner But 2. If by serving the grand-interest of remission of sins and salvation in some sense You mean as if there was as absolute necessity unto remission of sins and salvation that men and women should be baptized as well as believe and that it is not faith alone that justifieth or without baptism because as some of you have sensed it Jesus Christ hath said that he that believeth and is baptised shall be saved if you say of haptism and of the manner thereof according to your apprehensions as the Iews that came from Iudea Acts the 15. chapt ver 1. said of circumcision except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses ye cannot be saved if this be your sense concerning baptism and the manner thereof viz. Dipping c. then I say though you or an Angell from heaven shall bring in baptism or any thing else in competition with faith unto justification as some once brought in circumcision contrary to the Doctrine of truth which we have received you are and shall be unto us in this point as accursed And we rather affirm that if in this sense or with this hope and expectation you preach the necessity of baptism and dipping c. that Christ shall profit you nothing Again Whereas you further adde in this your second consideration that Baptism was Commanded by Christ to be done upon Discipled Persons I Answer Mr. Lamb. SECT XXXIII 1. Reply In whatsense children are discipled persons cipled persons in what sense not THat if by Discipled persons you mean only persons that are taught and have learned personally the truth as it is in Jesus I deny any such command of Christ concerning Baptism neither doth any word in the commission imply in the least any such thing The word in the Commission is Nations Go ye and teach all Nations baptizing them c. and we have granted that no nations are to be baptised but the discipled nations as no nation was to be circumcised but the discipled nation of the Jews Yet undiscipled persons at least in your sense undiscipled were circumcised Even so I conceive though no nations of the Gentiles were to be baptized but discipled nations yet children not actually and with understanding brought to the knowledg of Christ may be baptized 2. Suppose it be granted that none but discipled persons are to be baptized yet will it not follow that children must not be baptized The reason is because in Scripture-sense children of discipled parents are called discipled persons Act. 15.10 VVhy do ye tempt God to put a yoak upon the neck of the Disciples Children are called Disciples in Scripture c. This yoak is circumcision all are called Disciples upon whom this yoak was put Now this yoak was not put upon the neck of the believing Jews in respect of their personall subjection to circumcision for they were circumcised already but upon their children or upon them in respect of their children who are here called Disciples Again Iohn 9.28 said the Jews to the man whom Christ cured being born blinde we are Moses Disciples we that is the whole Nation of us Jews are Moses Disciples under the discipline of Moses Law And you know that children were under Moses his discipline in respect of circumcision Again the Scripture calls children by the name of Gods servants Lev. 25.41 42. Then shall he depart from thee both he and his children with him speaking of the jewish servants and their children when the year of Jubile comes for saith God they are my servants he and his children c. for they that is he and his children are my Servants If children may be called Moses Disciples and Gods Servants under the Law why may they not be reputed Christs Disciples and his Servants under the Gospel Again the holy actions of Parents are said to be done also by their children 2 Chron. 20.4 Jehoshaphat proclaimed a fast and Iudah gathered themselves together to ask or pray for help of the Lord Who are meant by Judah See verse the 13th And all Iudah stood before the Lord with their little ones their wives and their children thus children are said to pray with their fathers Again Deut. 29.10 11. Ye stand this day all of you before the Lord your God your captains of your Tribes your Elders and your Officers with all the men of Israel your little ones your wives c. that thou shouldest enter into covenant with the Lord thy God and into his Oath c. Thus children are said to Fast to Pray to Repent to enter into covenant viz. in Gods mercifull acceptation their Parents being exercised in those duties Why may they not be said now also to be the same with their Parents Again Psal 22.9 David saith thus Thou art he that tookest me out of the womb thou did'st make me to hope when I was upon my Mothers Breasts What is more plain in Scripture than this viz. in Gods gracious account children are said to hope and depend upon him even before they come to understand the Doctrine of hope Again Mat. 18.5 6. children are said to believe in Christ and a fearfull judgement denounced against those that shall do them injury And whether you do not wrong them by excluding them from the Ordinance of Baptism it concerns you wel to consider See the like Mark 9.36 37. and 42. compared together Again Mark 10.13 14 15. Again Math. 19.13 14 15. You shall see the heart and soul of Jesus Christ is free in the admission of children unto him though you thrust them away from him As for that last clause in your second consideration wherein you take notice that the celebration of Baptism upon discipled persons was commanded to be done With huge solemnity
Neighbours if his Parents dyed in his Infancie told him so May not Christians when they they come to age nay are they not bound as much to believe their Parents telling them of their baptism as the Iewish Children were bound to believe their Parents telling them that the Mark on the foreskin of their flesh or the want of their praepatium was the Mark of their circumcision which they received according to the Laws of their religion when they were but eight dayes old Or whether that baptism upon such an information and belief of it be not as proper and apt to do spirituall service upon their hearts as circumcision was to do upon the hearts of the Jews children when they come to age It is sad to see such shadows of Arguments to divert men from the wayes of truth Your seventh Particular contains little also but what you have already spoken and hath been also spoken unto I see we have seen your strength and what you have to say You run so much upon repititions but though your spirits be spent and strength is gone yet your courage remains You have a good minde at it still Hence it is that you snatch up your we opens again tho the strength of your arm is hardly able to hold them Here also you reminde us of your findings which you have â—an over and over and over again as if you had no sooner found any thing but you lost it again and then you finde it again What have you found here I finde the Scriptures in all expressness of Letter are in many places for Believers Baptism Mr. Lamb. This hath been affirmed and granted granted and affirmed but what then Reply Whereas there is not one such Text for children Mr. Lamb. nor any instance of the Baptism so much as of one child in all the New-Testament SECT XLI WHat if there be not one such Text for childrens baptism for it may be your emphasis lyeth there doth it follow that there is no text at all for the justification thereof We have found text upon text and text after text namely all those texts recording the commands of Christ upon his Apostles and Disciples concerning baptism so conditioned qualified and phrased as that all the art and skill that either you or the greatest of your Champions you have cannot with a salvage unto your right reason honour and conscience exclude children from the intention of Iesus Christ as the legitimate and due subjects of baptism And where as you say there is not any instance of the baptism so much as of one child in all the New-Testament we have found also satisfaction upon satisfaction and satisfaction after satisfaction from all those texts likewise recording the exequation of Christs commands concerning baptism as that neither you nor all the Armies of your party can evince the contrary but that here were many hundreds of children baptized where and when Ierusalem and all Iudea and all the Regions beyond Iordan being Iews and therefore would doubtless have quarrelled if their children had been rejected were baptized as also where we read of thousands and of families and houses c. that were baptized But it is worthy observation that you tell us That many learned men have acknowledged Mr. Lamb. that Infant-baptism is not in Gods Word SECT XLV 1. Reply IF you mean that many learned men have acknowledged that there is no expressness of Letter in Gods word Mr. Lamb rejoyceth in the testimony of learned men when he can finde any of them of his judgment about baptism though he cautioneth us about Mr. Goodwins learning shewing de facto that children were baptized it is not denyed you nor doth it make any thing for your purpose For neither is there any expressness of the Letter shewing where any women did partake of the Lords Supper And yet you judge it their duty being otherwayes qualified for the same to partake thereof But 2. If you mean that many learned-men have acknowledged that Infants baptism cannot be proved in Gods word to be lawfull nay not a duty I cannot but observe how that one of a City and two of a Tribe of learned men of your way do amount unto many in your eyes Surely if you glory thus in the gleanings what would you do if the vintage were your own Why should Mr. Goodwins learning hang in his light any more than other mens Well however every one of the many you mention be interpreters even one of a thousand yet shall they not be Rabbies unto me nor have any dominion over my faith in the point in hand You add And those that go about to found it Infant-baptism on Scripture build all on consequences ifs may-bees Mr. Lamb. why-nots which argument Mr. Goodwin hath often used to confirm the Doctrine of generall Redemption and to draw the contrary opinion under the suspition of error SECT XLIV DOth not Scriptures speak consequences in premises Reply as well as the premises themselves The Scripture no where saith Scripture speaks consequences as welas principles or premises That any one whose name was is or ever should be Thomas Lamb shall or may possibly be saved Can it not be proved therefore that one Thomas Lamb shall or possibly may be saved as well as if the Scripture had the express saying therein that one Thomas Lamb shall or may be saved The Scripture makes mention of Paul desiring Philemon to receive Onesimus not as a servant but above a servant a brother beloved May not a man affirm hence that Onesimus was not with Philemon when he wrote thus unto him When the Scripture saith speaking of Christs Mother and the virgins name was Mary may not we say and insist upon it as a truth very proveable from the Holy Scriptures that Mary was a virgin Again if we must not build upon ifs may-bee's and why-nots Mr. Lambs proofs by consequences are good but he wil not suffer other men to prove Doctrines by consequences how come you to affirm with that magisteriall confidence as you do that the baptizing of children is unlawfull that no children were baptized by Iohn or any others mentioned in the Holy Scriptures that it is unlawful to joyn with such persons in Church-fellowship that were baptized only in their infancie with many other of the like nature having indeed not so much as any rationall ifs may-bee's and why-nots from Scripture for the confirmation thereof would any man suppose that so much as a babe in Christ would reason after this rate Where have you been since you left us But whereas you add Mr. Lamb. which argument I suppose you mean which manner of arguing by Mr. Goodwins adverse viz. from ifs may-bee's why-nots Mr. Goodwin hath often used to confirm the Doctrine of Generall Redemption and to draw the contrary opinion under the suspition of error SECT XLVII IT would require you more pains to shew us one place in all his writings
which you say he hath after used of such splashy Reply shallow watry thin and barren argumentation either pro or con than the writing of seven such booâ—s as this is which we now implead You speak much of your findings but if you have found any such place in all his writings namely where he hath denyed that true proper and natural consequences from granted premises in the Scripture are not to be admitted as the truths of God I believe you may rejoyce in it and eat the morsells thereof your self alone having no partner with you therein in any part of the world whereof the Sun in the firmament is Overseer But this is onely to give Mr. Goodwin a running-rap but you could not reach him You procee 8. Mr. Lamb. I found the unregenerate world naturally falling in with childrens baptism which is a shrewd sign is a deâ—ice of her own the world loveth her own c. SECT XLVIII YOU finde the unregenerate world no more naturally falling in with childrens baptism Reply then you found it naturally falling in with the profession of Christ For they are baptized and do baptize their children in no other name nor into the profession of any other Saviour then Jesus Christ And is not this a shrewd argument that this Doctrine of the Messiah the unregenerate world so naturally falleth in withall is a device of her own the world doth love her own Your 9th particular is summ'd up in this Mr. Lamb. infant-Baptism is unlawfull because baptism being the initiating Ordinance into the Church it letteth in a sort of Members which the New-Testament knoweth not namely such as cannot worship God inspirit God now seeking onely such to worship him The whole bedy must be fitly framed together and every part must effectually work And can these things be affirmed of children SECT XLIX First you affirm that baptism is the innitiating Ordinance into the Church I suppose you mean not the Church generall but dejure it is the initrating Ordinance into particular Churches If that be your meaning Baptism not proved to be the initiating Ordinance into Church-fellowship this then is such a conclusion as you can hardly make good no not by any ifs may-bee's and why-nots gatherable from any place or places in the Holy Scriptures that is to say that baptism did make any person ipsosacto a member of any particular Church But it is proveable that many and many were baptized of whom it is impossible to prove that by baptism or any other way they were ever immembred into any particular Church And it is a difficulty too hard for you or I or any other in the world to undertake namely to prove that all and every particular member of particular Churches were ever baptized at all 2. It is true Gad seeketh such and onely such now to worship him as can worship him in spirit and in truth Iohn 4.23 that is as I conceive according to the context Now the time of reformation approacheth God will be worshipped and obeyed neither in the Iudaicall rites consisting in external performances as some among you so much contend for nor according to the Samaritans false worship who worshipped their Idol Gods together with God 2 King 17.26 27 28 29. but in a pure spirituall manner extending to the very heart such as was typified by those shaddows and the Son of God comes now to draw all men unto this way of worship from the Iudaicall from the Samaritan way This text indeed with severall others renders men uncapable of Church-worship in an acceptable manner that content themselves only with outward forms and yet leading a vitious life But what is this to the exclusion of children As for them here is the grace of the Gospell that he accepteth of little children and would not have men forbidden as you do to bring them to Christ He accepteth according to what any person hath and not according to what he hath not 3. Again God was alwayes a spirit as well as now and he did alwayes seek for such to worship him as should worship him in spirit and in truth as well as now He alwaies loved-truth in the inward parts he alwayes required of all his Sons to give him their hearts in his worship he alwayes commanded the Jews to love the Lord their God with all their hearts and minds and soul and strength Did this under the Law any way hinder that children might not be admitted members of the Iewish Church because they could not perform inward heart-worship and spirituall service did God upon their circumcision accept of them as if they did perform all those spirituall services and heart-heart-duties untill they came to an actuall and personall capacity actually and personally to perform the same And will he not now accept of children baptized as if they did actually and personally perform those services unto him which under the Gospell he requireth untill they likewise come to an actuall and personall capacity so to do And then wil he accept or reject them as they are found faithfull or unfaithfull in these things 4. Whereas you say that the New-Testament knoweth us such member of Churches as infants c. I answer that tho I will not say or deny that the New-Testament knoweth not any infant-members of Churches yet the New Testament knoweth and hath taught others also to know that children are due subjects of Baptism And that it never knew not taught any to know where ever they were or ought to be rejected and denyed the participation thereof Our controversie is not about infant-Church-member-ship but infant-baptism Your tenth Argument for your beliefe in the business of Baptism viz. against Infant-Baptisme and for your separation Mr. Lamb. c. is taken from your observation of the righteous hand of God who causeth the sharpest and most able Adversaries to you in this point to let fall such expressions as justifie what they go about to oppose and condemn as Mr. Richard Baxter saith the aged are 1. the most fully capable subiects 2. the most excellent subiects 3. the most eminent subiects 4. of whom Scripture fully speaketh 5. the greater part of the world when Baptism was instituted who were to be partakers of it But on the contrary for infant-baptism he Mr. Baxter acknowledgeth it so dark in the Scripture that the controversie is thereby become not onely hard but so hard c. SECT L. YOU needed indeed to have written this in Capitall Letters that every one that runs may read the profundity thereof Reply The aged are the most capable subjects of Baptisme Ergo Children are no subjects thereof The aged are the most eminent subjects Ergo Children are no subjects Mr. Lambs miserable inferences from Mr. Baxters words the Scripture speaketh fully of them Ergo not at all of Children The aged were the greater part of the world that did partake of Baptisme Ergo Children were no part of the world that did partake
parts of America some to the Summer-Islands others to Holland and the low-Countries at which the Bishops were wel pleased as not doubting but they might with more ease deal with the remnant that were left behind Mr. Goodwin did often bewaile the departure of those men and resolved by Gods grace to stand it out against all the adversaries of Gods people in those times And you know he did persist in his resolutions and integrity even to the making of himself a by-word and a mock amongst them viz. then when others were fled and run away Mr. Goodwin was left to pray c. At this chiefly and mainly was Mr. Goodwin offended with Mr. Thomas Goodwin Never was he troubled at the joyning together of holy men in any parish to keep out the vitious and evil party according to their best opportunities so to do Neither did he ever refuse that ever I have heard the entertainment of godly persons though not of the parish into Church communion with him that did defire the same Nay severall persons living in severall parts of the City out of the parish were his most intimate associates even in the ordinances of Gods worship and service and in all things relating to reformation though in that parish the civill interest of the parish only excepted 3. That M. Goodwin to this day did never separate from them but hath indeed endeavoured a stricter way of reformation in and about Church-work then some though I hope good men of the said Parish would submit unto Upon which some disterences grew amongst them in all which differences it was never insisted upon by M. Goodwin that they should deny themselves to be a true Church of Christ before but that for time to come they would walk after a more visible reformed manner then they did admitting such godly persons though not dwelling in the parish as should be approved of by the honest party of that parish to enjoy after a more visible manner than formerly an equall interest and power in voting in Church affairs parish civill rights excepted I say an equall interest with those godly of the parish I remember well it was demanded by the brethren that diffented from Mr. Goodwin severall times whether Mr. Goodwin and the brethren that joyned with him would deny that they were a true Church before these differences did arise amongst them and it was never denyed but that they were a true Church though under much deformity and want of Reformation At last it was assented unto that an equall number of persons chosen by M. Goodwin on the one party and the dissenting brethren on the other party should meet and agree who how many and what manner of persons not living in the Parish should be admitted into Church-fellow-ship with them And after all things in a publick-meeting in the Parish Church or meeting place were composed by Vote and a blessed peaceable and comfortable reformation was expected the brethren formerly dissenting from M. Goodwin receded from their former agreements rent themselves away from M. Goodwin leaving him and a considerable part also of the godly party in the parish with him to go alone in their Church-Reformation For the confirmation of all which and for the muzling the mouth of scandall at or against M. Goodwin in and about the premises I have thought good here to insert the true Copy of the order of the said Parish-Vestry with other passages thereunto belonging word by word At a generall vestry holden the 12th day of May 1643. in the Parish Church of Stevens-Coleman-street London IT is agreed by generall consent that Mr. John Goodwin shall nominate six Persons of this Parish to consider of and compose the present differences between M. Goodwin and his people within the space of one month now next ensuing if it may be The persons named by Mr. Goodwin at the same Vestry were these following Coli Owen Row Mr. Mark Hildesley Doctor Paget M. Iohn Price M. VVilliam Mountagâ—â— M. Richard Ashurst The persons named by the same Vestry for the Parish were these following Mr. Samuel Avery Mr. Andrew Kenrick Mr. Thomas Bernardiston Mr. Edward Lucas Mr. Ioseph Syblye M. Tho. Fitzwilliam And whatsoever shall be agreed by the major part of the twelve persons above named there being present an equall number of those named by both parties shall be presented to Mr. Goodwin to obtain his consent It was further agreed upon at the same time that the strangers viz. those that did not live in the said parish should be suffered to come to a publick meeting in the Parish Vestry that they might be known by face and heard in their desires that exceptions might have been made against them if there were cause and no cause to the contrary appearing they might be owned as members of the Church of Christ in that place and to have their free Votes in all things relating to the due ordering of the Church parish-interest in civill things onely excepted All which was agreed upon by full consent and at the same Vestry also a certain day was appointed for their solemn seeking of God by prayer and humiliation to be kept in the said publick meeting place to intreat the Lord for mercy for former ignorances and miscarriages in and about his publick worship and to enter into a holy covenant with the Lord to be more carefull to study the Laws of his house and Ordinances for the time to come There was also a form of an agreement concluded upon to be subscribed by all persons of the parish and that lived out of the parish who should be owned for members of the Church from that time the true copy whereof is as followeth We having lately solemnly covenanted to indeavour the Reformation of Religion in this kingdome of England in doctrine worship discipline and government according to the word of God and example of the best reformed Churches and conceiving it a thing conducible hereunto to agree and promise to walk together in all the ordinances of God as becomes those that are fellow members of a visible Church of Christ do acknowledge and choose M. John Goodwin for our Pastor About a moneth after when the day appointed as aforesaid came wherein the Resolves of the said Vestrie were to be put in exequation some of the contrary party to Mr. Goodwin receded from their former Votes and Resolutions somenting the old differences still after the said happy and general composure thereof to the great amazement grief and trouble of the rest Others met according to appointment and the duties of fasting and prayer being finished joyned together in the Covenant aforesaid and subscribed the same the number of them being about sixty persons Inhabitants of the said Parish all of them having made a good profession of Religion besides several others that were not of the Parish who joyned and subscribed also with them The party dissenting being about twelve or fourteen of the professing party in number were still
their Church-fellowship they are ashamed of them of whom Christ is not ashamed Heb. 2.11 It follows then that Christ must look upon them as having a conceit that they have either more holyness or dignity than Christ himself in that they are ashamed of those of whom Christ is not ashamed c. SECT LIX To this you answer by granting the truth of the consideration but offer that no mans faith was accepted with God in the premitive times who was found sticking at any of his commandments Now baptisme being the express command of Christ you insinuate no man must be owned by you as Brethren that stict at it as we do If this be not your insinuation you say nothing but grant all that M. Goodwin affirms and your self to be convicted of disowning Christs brethren as ashamed of them if this be your sense 1. I Reply That you have owned us for holy brethren Mr. Lamb owns those for holy brethren beloved of God believers a Church and yet separates from them as walking in the right faith of the gospell as beloved of God therefore you are condemned by your own mouth 2. You insinuate that we stick at the commands of Christ which is an uncharitable and scandalous insinuation We dare not receive your weak and shallow interpretation of Scripture for the commands of Christ you must prove it the command of Christ that persons baptized in their infancie must be baptized again that childrens baptism is forbidden in Scripture or a nullity you may sooner be able to shew us one of the feathers of the Raven that fed Elias than shew us any such thing and yet you boast that you have the express will of God the plain word of Christ the command of God c. for the same you take your dead and unsound interpretation of Scripture 1 King 3.20 as the Harlot her dead child and cast it in the bosome of the holy Scriptures and this you would enforce upon us as the off-spring of Gods word and after a most proud and popish manner you exalt your interpretation as equipolent with the Text and the rejection thereof by those that differ from you is the rejection of the command of Christ the sticking at it is to stick at the command of God exalting your interpretation of the Scriptures above beyond or besides all that is called Gods speaking perverse or distorted things to discerp or violently drag Disciples after you and indeed bringing your sense to the Scriptures and setting it cheek-by-jowle with the Scriptures and not receiving it from the Scriptures 3. Do you make no difference between sticking as you call it at a known duty and at a doubtful practise did not you once stick at it your self as we do and had the person done you no wrong that should then affirm that you never gave any visible testimony or fruit of your faith until you were newly baptized From the 9th Page of your book speaking to M. Goodwins third consideration you take an excursion even unto the 32. Page quite forsaking the business in hand and repeating M. Allens Arguments about baptism which have been answered once and again by Mr. Goodwin and to run after you is to persue the wind which will bring nothing but vanity in the latter end Mr. Goodwins fourth Consideration runs thus such persons whom God judgeth fit for communion with himself upon grounds visible unto men ought not to be judged unmeet for communion with the holyest of men Rom. 14.1 2. Act. 10.31 Rom. 14.17 18. 1 Iohn 1.7 that you therefore acknowledg us to have worth yea more worth holiness righteousness the fear and love of God in us than many among your selves baptized after your own minds have and separating from us and not receiving us into fellowship with you in Church-communions do sin contrary to the truth of this consideration To this you say 1 The persons to whom the Apostle wrote Rom. 14. were baptized 2 That by the word receiving is not meant into Church-fellowship but into common respect and brotherly familiarity 3. That though it should be to receive them into Church-communion it doth not follow that they should be disorderly received 4. Upon this ground godly Presbyterians godly Episcopal men godly Papists nay honest Heathens should be admitted into Church-communion 5. That it is contrary to Mr. Goodwins own practise and having here gotten as you suppose Mr. Goodwin under your feer you flourish your naked sword as if the trophies of victory must make halt to your temples for you say who then may not see c. but hold a little SECT LX. 1. VVHat if the persons spoken of Rom. 14. were baptized which we shall grant Reply Rom. 14.1 2. There may be visible testimony of faith without baptism whether you be able to prove it or no what is this to impeach the truth of the consideration Could not the persons give visible testimony of their communion with God before their baptization or though they had never been baptized If so why were they baptized having given no testimony that they did believe and so were fit for baptism again if so why do you call us holy and beloved brethren though not baptized to speak in the language of Ashdod if there could be a visibility of their communion with God without baptism the rule imported in the consideration takes place whether they were baptized or no. 2. By the word receive say you is not meant into Church-fellowship but into common respects I reply 1. Their very being in Church Fellowship the greater and more spirituall Fellowship required much more their reception into common respect certainly they that do the great things of the law wil not stick at the tything of Mint and Commin 2. If the Apostle would have them to receive them into common respect they being already in Church-fellowship then would not he have any dis-respect at all in any kind cither common or special upon the account of their different apprehensions in some things there being a visible testimony of their faith and that God hath accepted them what then have you gotten here also for your purpose You object 3. Though it should be to receive them into Church-communion it doth not follow they should be disorderly received I reply If Scruple had been about the order or manner of their reception some being weak in the faith hereabout if God hath accepted them except you will put them upon new terms which God never did and be wise above what is written receive them for the reason you see is for God hath accepted them You go on 4. Upon this ground godly Presbyterians Episcopal Popish nay beathenish persons may be received I reply If a Presbyterian a prelaticall man a Papist nay a heathen can give a visible testimony of his communion and fellowship with God and that God hath accepted him though he should scruple the manner of baptism and severall circumstances therein and should make his
your war against the truth and people of the most high he was your match in rage and fury but he wanted your keen wit and roaring language to set it off with I say how can you read them over and not look upon them as the abhorrencie of your soul and even melt in tears for them but the Leopers lips must be covered 2. Suppose Mr. Goodwin had exceeded the rules of christianity in this kind and stumbled at that stone whereat others dash themselves in pieces was it such a worthy piece of charity to the world to be edifified by you in the discovery thereof by you I say his Son in the faith I have heard of a father who complaining that never had man so undutifull a child as he his son to throw contempt enough upon him replyed with less grace than truth my Grandfather had Do not you likewife endeavour here to render Mr. G. worse than him whom with indeed very little charity also you style an old enemy of the truth 3. I appeal to your conscience do not you believe that Mr. Goodwins end in writing this 22. consideration as wel as any of the rest was not your spiritual peace and interest according to his best thoughts and apprehensions that you might remember from whence you are fallen and repent And is this so great a crime deserving from your justice so great a censure that you should thus stigmatize him for a man of rage of fury and of a roaring language to set it off with a man of cruel mockings contemptuous revilings c. 4. Whether you do not judge it incombent as a duty upon Elders Ministers and Pastors of Churches when they perceive a danger of their Churches defection in matters of faith and practise together with other arguments from Scripture and reason to present their people and flocks over which God hath made them Overseers with the corrupt and wicked conversations of those persons I mean of the generality of those persons of the same judgement notions and apprehensions against which they argue as being fully perswaded of the corruption thereof of a dangerous tendencie to root up destroy the flourishing congregations churches of the living God Suppose some of your people baptized as you call it and gathered to your self according to your own judgement should apostize to Popery to Judaism to Turcism to Rantism and that with the plea of conscience as supposing the truth to be on their fides would it be improper or impertment if you be their Pastor amongst other arguments for their reducement to inform them of the authenticque histories relating the cruelty of the Papists the tyrany of the Turks the frauds of the Jews the prophaneness of the Ranters c. and hath Mr. Goodwin done any more 5. How were you harrased tortured and perplexed in this your answer to this 22. Consideration as if in an agony between conscience and concupiscence one while lifting Mr. Goodwin up above all his fellows for disposition and conversation according to godliness a pattern of patience humility meekness temperance and this by 20 years experience a man that hath exceeded his brethren of the Ministery in the promotion of holyness and close walking with God there being not many in his time if any at all that hath managed the same with more authority life and power another while you write him comparable with the old enemy of the truth Gangraena between whom and Mr. Goodwin say you there is but this onely difference viz. that he had not so keen a wit and roaring language to set off his rage and fury as Mr. Edwards had 6ly and lastly Instead of answering those nine particulars mentioned in this 22 Consideration you fall foul upon M. Goodwin as if your pen was in an extacie of rage and discontent and this must pass for an answer to them all and so set it pass with them that can be content to be so answered Mr. Goodwins 23 Consideration amounts to this There is no substantial argument produced to justifie such a practice of separations upon such grounds neither do he believe ever will be To this you say VVhether we have not given arguments to justifie it more than one and that grounded upon the Scriptures and your own principles and indeed the principles of all the learned I refer say you to the judgment of the Reader SECT LXXVII IF your Reader be a child in malice and a man in understanding Reply if a noble Berrean and not a giddy-headed Galathian able to try the spirits to prove all things so as to hold fast that which is good if his eyes are in his head what can he see in what you have written but a reed shaken with the wind a bubble in the ayr having indeed curious colors but fill'd only with very breath What can he see but zeal without knowledge many good words to no good purpose the holy Scriptures miserably mangled and cut in pieces like the Levites Concubine and scattered abroad throughout your book What can he see but confidence of mastery upon the very throne evidence of truth upon the very dunghil shadows of arguments exalted above the stars of God and the truth of arguments brought low and as it were covered with worms What can he see but a child of light walking in darkness and a son of desire murthering the honor of his aged father What can he see but a stragling sheep wandring away from the flock of Christ a prodigal son turning his back upon his fathers family What can he see but your high presumption in cutting off and keeping away innocent babes from Christs benediction in tearing up and rending in pieces the Churches of Christ united together by a holy covenant in obtruding your meer fancies for the objects of Faith and your unscriptural conceits for the Oracles of God in cursing those armies of Israel and flocks of Christ whom he hath blessed and in calling them common and unclean whom hee hath clensed In a word what shall he see but that notwithstanding all that you have written yet WATER-DIPPING IS NO FIRM FOOTING FOR CHVRCH-COMMVNION SECT LXXVIII To conclude If your Reader of what you have written to answer M. Goodwin be also M. Goodwins Reader of what you have pretended to answer and a Reader of such a Character mentioned in the last Paragraph I need not in the least suspect his discerning faculty in observing your most importune weakness in discovering as you call it M. Goodwins great mistakes in the exposition of eight chief Scriptures about Church-communion the truth is as in the former part of your book you call darkness light so in the rear of it you call light darkness and as the real darkness of that pretended light so the manifest light of that which you here call darkness cannot but be evidently discerned by him that wil diligently search those Scriptures and examine what M. Goodwin and your self his corrector have offered as the