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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A55892 The principles of a people stiling themselves Philadelphians discovered in their nicest points and matters; accurately handled, shewing their rise, continuance, and tenents in doctrin and manner of proceeding, &c. Also a curious discourse between an English dissenter and French Protestant, by way of dialogue, in vindication of the Church of England against novelties in religion. Lafite, Daniel. Friendly discourse between an English dissenter and a French Protestant. 1697 (1697) Wing P3494A; ESTC R219027 36,218 131

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it will never be a lawfull one for to speak freely and without mincing the matter I am of opinion that though it may be lawfull to use some Form of Prayer yet it is altogether unlawfull to use that Form which is now in vogue amongst you F. P. Then I find you are not altogether irreconcilable to the Lawfulness of Praying by Forms but you are not satisfied with the Forms we use I shall be glad to hear the Grounds of your dissatisfaction as hoping by this means to have an opportunity offer'd me to enlarge my self more in the Praise of our Common-prayer than hitherto I have had occasion to do E. D. I know the humour of French-men is to be complaisant and complimental and so very probably you design in comliment to the Church of England to fall down to the Common-prayer the great Idol of the English Clergy as you have already express'd your great Respects for their dull and prophane Priests F. P. I beg of you sir let us discourse without Prejudice or Passion and be so kind as to tell me calmly and friendly what Objections you have against our Common-prayer-book in particular E. D. Before I give you the Particular Objections I have against the Common-prayer-book I shall premise this General Observation That your Common-prayer is so bad that there is nothing good in it no nor any thing that is so much as tolerable F. P. How strangely you and I differ in Opinion As for my part I really think there is nothing in it but what is very good E. D. If you can prove that as I desire you would Eris mihi magnus Apollo for indeed you will do more than all your Clergy-men that ever I discours'd with and more than all the Books that treat of this Subject have been able to do F. P. If the case be so indeed I should be loath to undertake the task For if none of our Clergy that you have discours'd with nor any of those excellent Books written in the Defence of our Liturgy have been able to convince you of the goodness and usefulness thereof it would be folly for me to attempt it for I am very sensible that my Parts and Abilities are far below any one of our Clergy that you have had to deal with and to speak the truth 't is from them and their Writings I have acquired the best part of that little learning and insight into these things that I have E. D. I hope you are as modest a Man as your discourse would import besides being a French Protestant you as such can have neither publick nor private Reason to bear any ill-will to our Party wherefore I look upon you as an unbiass'd Person without Prejudice or Partiality and consequently fit to be discours'd with about the matter in question between us And indeed all this makes me the more desirous to hear the Arguments you can produce for proving your Assertion That there is nothing in the Common-prayer-book but what is very good F. P. I thought all this while that you intended to propound your Objections against the Common-prayer and that my onely business would have been to Answer them E. D. I suppose we may do both these things at once for if you please to tell me what you find so extraordinary good in the Common-prayer I shall also on my part declare what I dislike in it F. P. Be it so And to the end we may proceed with some order let us cursorily reade over the Common-prayer-book which I have here with me E. D. This indeed will be a good way to enable us to judge the better concerning it and therefore I am very free to run it over with you onely must desire you not to take it ill if now and then I interrupt you with my Objections against any part of it F. P. What you desire is contain'd in our agreement for according to it I am to tell you what I approve of in our Liturgy and you are to tell me what you dislike in it by propounding your Objections against it E. D. Very well and in so doing we shall finely Anatomize these Relicks of Popery But it is your turn to begin F. P. The first thing I meet with in our Common-prayer-book are some Sentences of the Holy Scriptures of which the Minister is to reade one or more before he proceeds to the Prayers or Devotions which seems to me to be very proper and usefull for certainly we can never better begin God's Service than with his own Words Next follows an Exhortation wherein is represented to the People the End of their present assembling or meeting together which is as the Exhortation expresseth it To confess their Sins to render Thanks to God to set forth his Praise and to ask those things that be necessary either for Soul or Body and towards the end thereof we are informed and directed how to perform these holy and bounden Duties viz. sincerely and reverently with a pure heart and humble voice which caution is very necessary if we consider how prone Men are without any due preparation of themselves to rush into the presence of the great God who is a consuming fire and before whom they ought to appear with the most reverential awe and trembling as likewise how apt we are to utter any thing before him without considering that he is in Heaven and we on Earth and how negligent we generally are in disposing and qualifying our selves for the acceptable performance of the Sacred Duties of our Religious Worship E. D. So far all is pretty tolerable but by and by we shall meet with a great deal of stuff F. P. Not to insist now upon your plain contradicting of your self for whereas but just now you positively asserted that there was nothing so much as tolerable in our Liturgy you now plainly confess the contrary I shall onely desire you when we come to those places where your great deal of stuff lies that you would stop me for I shall be glad to hear the Objections you have against any part of it and in the mean time I proceed to speak of the Confession which is the next thing that occurs in our Liturgy The Minister and People having been thus stirr'd up by the foregoing Exhortation to compose their Thoughts and prepare their Hearts for a due offering up of their Morning or Evening Sacrifice the next thing they do is to fall down on their knees confessing in a solemn and humble manner their Sins unto Almighty God earnestly imploring his Grace and Mercy for the Pardon of them And this according to my apprehension is very proper and necessary in our approaches to God for since it is our Sins that separate between God and us and hide his face from us we can do no better than in the first place to beg of our most mercifull Father the Remission of them that he may utterly efface them and put them out of the way of