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A17912 A necessitie of separation from the Church of England, prooved by the nonconformists principles Specially opposed vnto Dr. Ames, his Fresh suit against humane ceremonies, in the point of separation only. Also Dr. Laiton, Mr. Dayrel, and Mr. Bradshaw, are here answered, wherein they have written against us. With a table in the later end, of the principal occurrents in this treatise. By Iohn Canne, pastor of the ancient English church, in Amsterdam. Canne, John, d. 1667? 1634 (1634) STC 4574; ESTC S117015 174,263 303

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say the Learned but the ministerie of the church of England is vnlawfull and Antichristian sayth Mr. Dr. Ergo it is lawfull to separate from it If the church of England hath not Christs Key she is not his house saith Mr. Dr. But the church of England hath not Christs Key saith Mr. Brightman and others Ergo she is not his house and so consequentlie to be separated from To separate from corruptions is lawfull saith Mr. Dr. the ministerie worship and Church government of England are corruptions saith Mr. Dr. Ergo it is lawfull to separate from the ministerie worship and Church government of England I doe not gather up these his arguments for any need we have of them but to put him in minde of his owne take heed For if he say one thing and doe another he may perhaps at last fall worse then vpon the quick sands of separation even into the bottomlesse pitt of condemnation And whereas I perceive he is not willing to be compared to Barrow for my part I am not willing that he should for Reverend Barrow was true to his grounds and walked conscionable in the holte order of the Gospell to which order Mr. Dr. hath beene hitherto an utter enimie but for what reason let himself looke to it I have spoken the more because of this mans insolent boasting against us and the untrue reports which he giveth forth of refuting the cheifest separatists I hope now the world shall see what abilitie he hath in this thing or otherwise all will have just cause to conclude that Mr. Dr. will speake more to his good freinds in private against us then he is willing to have publicklie knowne to receive an answer to it Our third inference is If church government be a matter of Faith necessarie to salvation as is any outward ordinance of God and wholie wanting in the Assemblies of of England then it is the dutie of all the faithfull there shaking off the Prelates yoake to erect this power and exercise the same among them I doe not mean that any private person should meddle with the affaires of the Realme but that every one in his owne person doe place himself about the throne of God leaving the abuses of the publike state to be reformed by such as have a lawfull calling thereto It is certaine this ordinance must be sett up retained and practised though Princes are utterlie against it We must not tarie one houre to exspect a new grant from men to doe our duties in the true worship of God when as we have a sufficient grant allreadie from heaven for if we doe we shall surely dye in our sinnes and our blood shall be upon our owne head The primitive Christians had not the Magistrates leave to serve God yet they did whatsoever he commaunded them Their practise is an example for us and all beleevers are bound to doe the like as often as there is the like just and necessary occasion For as the approbation of men and Angels makes the wayes of God and workes of religion never a whit the more lawfull but onely the more free from bodily daunger so neither can their disalowance make unlawfull such duties of religion as the word of God approveth nor can they give dispensation to any person to forbeare the practise thereof But because my purpose cheifly is to shew the judgement of the Nonconformists touching religious ordinances and the use and practise thereof I will therefore lay downe their words that so the reader may see how well they and we in these thinges doe accord except in Obedience The Magistrate say they is but the servant of the Lord and therefore hath no power to bind the the conscience neither can he exempt any man from obedience to God Another saith if the Law of man be wanting yet the Church must not cease from doeing her duety and exercise her power which is granted her by Christ who hath also promised his presence when two or three are gathered together in his name therefore she may entreat determine and strengthen her decrees and constitutions with Ecclesiasticall censures and punishments notwithstanding the Prince will not assent approve and ratifie the Canons of the Church nor confirme them by his lawes and fortifie them with temporall punishments M. Wing an eminent Reformist hath 9. reasons in print to prove that all persons are necessarily bound to practice perpetually the ordinances and commaundements of the Gospell although the civill Magistrate allow not thereof and because they are effectuall and weighty I will here lay them downe 1. If the onely sure way for comfort of our soules be the practice of Gods ordinances for his visible Church vnder the Gospell then we are bound to practice the said ordinances notwithstanding the Magistrate doe forbid the said practice But the only sure way for the comfort of our soules is the practice of Gods ordinances for his visible Church vnder the Gosp ll Therefore we are bound to practice the said ordinances notwithstanding the Magistrate doe forbid the said practice 2. All the Magistrates power wherein he is actually to be obeyed is onely where he commaunds or forbids from God or for God But the Magistrate forbidding the practice of this way doth not forbid from God nor for God Therefore the Magistrate forbidding the practice of this way is not actually to be obeyed 3. Where the Magistrate may not commaund and be lawfully obeyed in the Negative part of any commaundement of the first Table there he may not forbid and be Lawfullie obeyed in the affirmative But the Magistrate may not commaund and be lawfullie obeyed in the Negative of the 2 commaundement Therefore he may not forbidd and be lawfully obeyed in the affirmative 4. We cannot justifie specially the continued omission of any dutie and cheifly of the first table vnlesse we be by violence restrained from the practise thereof But to omitt the practise of these ordinances of God for his visible church vnder the Gospell because it is not tollerated or allowed by the Magistrate is a continued omission of a dutie of the first table and this not omitted by reason of a violent restraint Therefore we cannot justifie the omission of this dutie 5. It is not lawfull to omitt the dutie of charitie to releive any poore saint of God though the Magistrate forbidd it Therefore we may not omitt this dutie of piety though the Magistrate forbid it 6. If the Lord foresaw the aversnesse of Magistrates to the practise of this church Government and yet did never exempt nor dispense with the peoples omission therefore then we may not omitt or forbeare this dutie though the Magistrate doe not tollerate it But the Lord foresaw the aversnesse of Magistrats to the practise of this church Government and yet did never exempt nor dispense with the peoples omission of this dutie Therefore we may not omit or forbeare this dutie though the Magistrate forbid 7. Whatsoever
the grossest offence that is vntill the offender have said as much for himselfe as he possibly is able For it is an evident Character of a corrupt Ecclesiasticall Government where the parties convented may not have full liberties to speake for themselves considering that the more liberty is granted to speake in a bad cause especially before those that are in authority and of judgement the more the iniquitie of it will appeare and the more the justice of their sentence will shine Again excommunicatiō must not be used but as the last and desperate remedie even as a chirurgiō tryeth all gentle meanes before launcing searing or cutting off Indeed if the cause be great weighty and necessarie then it may not be omitted Reasons First for the glorie of God that it may appeare his house to be no cage of vncl●ane birds no stye of swine no den of theeves no stewes or brothelhouse but the holy citty the seat throne of justice the temple of the liveing God where the chast virgin worshippeth where no Cananite may be suffered 2. That the worship and service of God may be kept and preserved from pollution contempt and prophanation 3. For the good of the sinner himselfe that he may see his fault be ashamed thereof and reconcile himselfe first to God and then unto the church against whome he offended and so be saved in the day of the Lord. So long as a harlot hath freely the society of chast matrons she takes no shame of her adulterie but whē all honest women reject her then at last c. So a thiefe if he be suffered to converse still with true men to have his liberty in citty and country to the full he will not be ashamed of his robberies murders c. but c. It is just so in this cause If open sinners be suffered in the church and admitted to publike and private communion in the exercises of Religion certainly then though they declare their sin as Sodom and hide it not yet they will not be ashamed of it but rather thinke they have not sinned or it is so light and small as they need not make any matter thereof 4. The honour and the good name of the church is hereby preserved which would be lost if vile persons were left alone therein 5. That others may fcare for if this course be omitted it may be a meanes to embolden many to doe the like A member being thus justlie excommunicated he is not to partake in the spirituall good things which the Lord communicateth in his church as the Sacraments prayer c. yet he may be admitted to the hearing of the word because that is a means to humble him for his sinne and to bring him to repentance which is the end of all Ecclesiast Censures Moreover the rest of the faithfull must avoyd all kind of familiar conversation with him be it in eating drinking buying and selling yea in saluting and talking with him so farre as they are not bound unto him in any of the bands of civil right and society I adde this because excommunication unlooseth it not but such as are of the family or affinitic must performe all duties to such a one which such a relation hath made his due the husband to the wife and the wife to the husband the child to the father the servant to the master c. so an excommunicate Magistrate remaineth a Magistrate still and must of all Christians so be acknowledged Beside all lawfull contracts and promises must be kept and performed with him workes of mercie shewed to him if there be just and necessarie cause If the offender afterwards shall see his sin and desire to be taken againe into the communion of the Saints the church is to assent thereto willinglie yet so as the partie make publike repentance according to the proportion of the offence a verball profession of repentance sufficeth not For so the most holy institutions of God are exposed to the mockage of the wicked and the action of the church placed onely in an outward forme Therefore such evidences are required which in the judgement of charitie doe declare true and sincere repentance and which serve as probable witnesses of the thing Be it here speciallie noted that excommunication and the absolution or reconciliation of the excommunicate are actions common to the whole church and not of any private person or persons For howsoever the Elders for the peace profitt and good order of the church are to administer these ordinances yet the whole church must give their consent freely hereto In the Apostles time and after till the yeare 250. every man that was a member of the church had in the church his voyce in Ecclesiastical censures causes and determinations of the church Christ doth not say when there is cause of accusing or Censuring any tell the Bishops but tell the Church and accordinglie in the times of the Apostles and long after as the Epistles of Ciprian doe manifest they were judged by the word in an assemblie of presbyters and brethren as the incestious Corinthian which shews us that neither one man nor the Presbyters alone were judges in such causes but Church which by scriptures either cleared or censured any person accused as by the word of God he appeared either guiltie or not guiltie c. Many reasons are yeelded by the Nonconformists to prove this thing and all objections made against it soundlie answered and the testimonies of the Learned alleaged for it as the reader may see largely in their bookes named in the margent The like they speake touching the admission of any member into the communion of the church that person which is to be joyned ought publikely to com before the face of the congregation and there to be examined of his fayth knowledge c. and beeing found meet by the general consent of the people he is joyfullie received But of this more hereafter Moreover if the Ecclesiasticall officers shall refuse to doe their duety yet may the brethren notwithstanding performe Church actions and the same are to be esteemed good and lawfull To come vnto a conclusion this forme of Church government here described is vnchangeable ordinary best and perpetuall common to all true Churches and to which all states must be subject as well the rulers as they that are ruled yea and the preachers themselves as well as the poore within the Church and good reason for the same is not a thing indifferent as some thinke but a point of the Gospell yea of the substance thereof a matter of faith and of necessitie to salvation I mean in such an absolute degree of necessitie as is of any ordinarie outward meanes especially to every church and by consequence to every soule in it And therefore as no common wealth can florish or long endure without good lawes and sharpe execution of the same so neither can the church
asked sundrie needfull questions to which he having well answered and beeing found worthie by the consent of the whole Church is joyfullie to be taken into their communion and this they say was the practise of the primitive Churches For Eusebius reporteth in his Ecclesisticall Historie that a Romane Emperour named Philip who first became a Christian of all the Emperours and first submitted the Romane Empire unto Christ desireing to communicate with the rest of the Church was not admitted before he had openlie made profession of true religion When a people are thus established in the faith and order of the Gospell their care then must be to walk unreproovablie and as in the naturall body everie several member is as it were the member of every other in serving to their good as the eie doth see the hand doth take the tongue doth speak for the good of anie other member so must it be in the church of God everie person according to his place and calling ought to be as profitable unto the rest as he can and specially their godly watchfulnesse must bee to keepe their communion clean and pure and therefore no unholy person may partake with them in the holie sacraments but such onelie as farre as men can judge by their outward profession that doe belong truely unto Christ When any one among them falls into sinne he must be lovinglie admonished thereof and brought to repentance or else to be cutt of by excommunication if he continue obstinate in his sinnes How this dutie of brotherly admonition is to be performed we have already shewed this onely is to be added viz. that it ought necessarily to be practised may not be omitted for certainly the tolleration of known iniquitie is a greivous sin of the church in its own nature tendeth to the corruption thereof yea it defiles the communion Hag. 2. 13. and everie one makes himself guilty of the pollution which doth not indeavour as much as in him lyeth to remoove such offences In a word this mixture which ariseth by tolleration much hinders the comforte and edification of the godly As in all the rest so in this point the Nonconformists and we are of judgments alike and it is our greate greife that they will not joyne with us in practise also and make themselves members of such true visible churches as here they have well described for so should Gods name be glorifyed the Gospell propagated Satans and Antichrists Kingdome much weakened and themselves obtaine mercie in the great day of the Lord. They pray let thy Kingdome come but how doe they thinke that ever they shall behold the beauty and glorie therof seeing they resolve not to set their hands unto the raysing of it up but doe leave the work wholy to the Magistrate so that if the arme of flesh will not build a spirituall temple for the Lord he is likelie for their part to have none at all but whether such courses will not prove ill at last I leave it to themselves to thinke of SECT II. WE heard before what a true visible Church is now it followes that we shew how everie way contrarie to the former patterne the English assemblies are said to be by the Nonconformists First they acknowledge that their reformation at first after Poperie was not rightly founded because neither then nor ever since was there any profession of Faith publickly made by the persons which entred into Church estate but indeed it was then held and so it is at this present a sufficient thing to be members of their churches if men come to their service and Sacraments take the oath of allegeance and be conformable to their wicked Ceremonies whosoever doth this passeth for a Protestant howsoever in practise he be a Papist Arminian c. yet is he more regarded then the most sincere Christians whome they call Puritants And by this meanes it is that in the bosom of their church are swarmes of Atheists Idolaters Papists erronious and hereticall Sectaries witches Charmers Sorcerers murderers theeves adulterers lyars blasphemers oppressors voluptuous persons whose God is their bellie Moreover such is the great ignorance of God and his truth among them that the greatest multitude by many parts doe not understand the Lords prayer or the articles of Faith or the doctrine and vse of the Sacraments there are not five among five skore which doe understand the necessarie grounds and principles of Religion but many thousands which are men women growne if a man aske them how they shall be saved they cannot tell Mr. Nichols esteemed a forward preacher amongst them saith We finde by great experience and I have now five and twenty yeeares observed it that in those places where there is not preaching and private conferring of the minister and the people the most part have as litle knowledge of God and of Christ as Turks and Pagans and to prove this he gives an example in his own flock for I have beene in a parish saith he of foure hundreth communicants and marvelling that my preaching was so litle regarded I tooke upon me to conferre with every man and woman before they receaved the communion and I asked them of Christ what he was in his person his office how sinne came into the world what punishment for sinne what becomes of our bodies beeing rotten in the graves and lastly whether it were possible for a man to live so vprightlie that by well doeing he might win heaven In all the former questions I scarse found ten in the hundred to have any knowledge but in the last question scarse one but did affirme that a mau migh be saved by his owne wel doing that he trusteth he did so live that by Gods grace he should obtaine everlasting life by serving of God and good prayers And it is no wonder that the condition of the people is generallie thus seeing they thinke that all the service of God to lie in churching crossing kneeling and beeing houseled as they call it at Easter and as for preaching they hould it a superfluous and needlesse ceremonie and therefore when their service is done they take it they may Lawfullie goe out of the Church though the minister be ready to goe into the pulpitt Moreover they say that the greatest number of their people are so wicked and vile that were it not to save their purses and for the Lawes of the Kingdome which doe constraine and compel them to make some outward profession they would make none all For as Mr. Fenner saith Every man followeth the pride covetuousnesse whor●d●me drunkennesse of his own heart and no man remembreth Ioseph the barres are filled with pleadings and the streets are full of the cryes of the poore fullnesse of meat and contempt is among us and who considereth yet if this our sinne were onely against men and not against God there might be some hope But when