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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A16643	A plaine confutation of a treatise of Brovvnisme, published by some of that faction, entituled: A description of the visible Church In the confutation wherof, is shewed, that the author hath neither described a true gouerment of the Church, nor yet proued, that outward discipline is the life of the Church. Whereunto is annexed an ansvvere vnto two other pamphlets, by the said factioners latelie dispersed, of certaine conferences had with some of them in prison. Wherein is made knowen the inconstancie of this sect, what the articles are which they still maintaine: as also a short confutation of them. There is also added a short ansvvere vnto such argumentes as they haue vsed to proue the Church of England not to be the Church of God.	Alison, Richard, controversialist.	1590 (1590)	STC 355; ESTC S100153	67,007	148

faction crie out that the true church is without spot or wrinkle or grosse pollution take libertie to slaunder those that are in authoritie so to free themselues from all submission affirme that the Sacraments are no Sacraments Whervpon though the renuer of this schisme Browne I meane did not in plaine wordes require a baptising againe yet their succossors in their established Church attempted it haue taught that they being the Lordes free people the magistrate is not to deale in causes ecclesiasticall holde that men are not to be compelled to good duties binde one another with a vow to persist in this faction boast of suffrings c. yet detest the name of Donatisme though Donatus was the first deuiser of Brownisme though Brown was the only restorer of these fansies The forerunners it should seeme were grosse when their Disciples are ashamed to be accounted their schollers yet if anie grossenesse as yet vnnamed either in matters of faith or manner of dealing be found in them it will appeare in these also for it is no new fansie but an ancient heresie neither is there hope that they will be restrained but by an olde remedie For as the Donanists when councels were called conference was had and they were conuicted yet gaue it out with great glorie that they had put to silence all the learned and remained wilfull vntill that by the sharp laws of Honorius they were restrained yea and many of them by that meanes were brought againe to the Church so with our men all gentle meanes haue bene vsed in conference hard speeches haue onelie helped them yet remaine they obstinate and brag of victorie if the lawes of our christian Honorius doe them no good they are incurable No doubt the Phisition is irke some to a frantique person and a father to an vnrulie child the one in binding the other in striking and both in louing The dutie of a phisition and the nature of a father must appeare in the magistrate not in satisfieng the desires of the froward to cōtent them but in restraining their phrensie to profite them It may bee to the discontentment of some that anie punishment should be inflicted vpon them for their disordered stubburnnes I would not be mistaken I wish it not howsoeuer m. Greenwood affirmeth that the magistrate ought to compell vnto the hearing of the word Only this I saie that the lesse these matters are cōsidered of the better may the men be conceiued of but view their writings examine their doctrine and marke their dealings and they will appeare the open enemies of Gods truth for in pretending to establish a church they ouerthrowe the church and vnder the colour of setting vp the discipline of Christ they seeke to plague themselues and others with their owne dreams which in this their treatise of discipline and in their two other treatises of certaine conferences lately by them published shall bee made manifest to the indifferent reader In answering of them al onelie the calumniations in the conferences excepted which concerne some particular persons whose cause I leaue to themselues who best know how farre they are abused and in regorde thereof can best answere the same I haue followed the authors method leauing the man and seeing into the matter not regarding who wrote it but what is the doctrine that is maintained by him As for the treatise of the visible Church it will appeare not tollerable inasmuch as it is impious abusing the Scripture iniurious to the Church in describing a false gouernment and daungerous to the simple who are readie to bee deceiued with euerie blast of vaine doctrine The other discourses are not onely like vnto it but haue in them many bitter speeches vngodlie slanders both of Church Magistracie Ministerie and all wherby it seemeth that the author hath not learned to rule his pen. In this mine attempt I haue small hope to satisfie those that are wedded to their will when Gaudentius was answered sufficientlie to his follies hee would notwithstanding returne his aunswere though he did the same nulla ratione respondens sed magis se nec respondere nec tacere potuisse declarans If our author wil replie let him labour to be vnlike to Gaudentius and his companie who with words and bitter speeches sought to vphold their cause if he vse the Scriptures let him applie them faithfully and then if he preuaile the controuersie will be at end In the meane while if these poore labours of mine might satisfie these discontented persons or failing hereof might staie the ignorant from beeing seduced or else might prouoke them that are better able to deale more substantially in these matters I shal be glad Finally I am to intreate the reader both to accept in good part that which in desire of his good is deliuered And also before hee beginne to reade this treatise to amend such faultes as by default in the printing were committed R. A. Faultes escaped in the printing The 2. pag. line 21. This read Thus. pag. 5. li. 5. read the sentence pag. 9. line 24. reade preaching pag. 13. in the margent Iudg. 4 reade Iude. 4. pag. 23. line 12. read Veliphnei Iehouah ijshpok c. pag. 30. line 14. dutie reade vnitie pag. 40. in the margent reade Bale in Apoc. 2. Iraeneus c. pag. 65. line 25. reade were not in the primitiue c. pag. 99. Tit. 3. is to bee placed line 11. and line 19. should be Deut. 13. pag. 108. line 28. reade for instruction onely c. pag. 110. line 23. reade Inst. lib. 4. c. pag. 117. line 2. reade ignorantiam A PLAINE CONFVTATION OF A TREATISE OF Brownisme published by one of that Faction the Title whereof is this A true Description out of the word of God of the visible Church The Answere to the Title THE departure out of the Church is rightly called the badge of an heretike to whom in his going out the Goates do flie for succour when the sheepe of Christ do seeke their foode in the Church of Christ. But because it is a lesser burthen to beare the marke then to haue the name of an heretike it falleth out that men in all ages when they forsake the fellowshippe of the saintes of GOD they doe professe a betaking themselues vnto the true Church of God Heerevppon it commeth that such as haue beene nourished with the milke of discontentment strengthened with the spirite of vnquietnesse and cloathed with the profession of a godlie conscience do now trouble and molest vs refuse to continue with vs and make a nullitie of our Church Their eyes they say are now opened who liued vntill nowe in blindnesse they haue found out the true Church whereof they labour to be members in seeking our good they publish and set sorth vnto vs a true description thereof and this shall bee confirmed out of the word of God This their knowledge their loue and their faithfull dealings are warranted vnto vs

beholde what then to enioy so blessed a communion But to begin withall the place of Salomon Can. 6. 4. 9. is much abused by the author whilest that it is applied to cōmēd the beutie of the church which is nothing else but blacknesse as the church her selfe acknowledgeth For wheras in the former chapter the church hath accused her selfe of negligence in not perfourming her dueties vnto her spouse And the daughters of Ierusalem comforting her she declared his nature and disposition the place of his abode c. whereby shee doeth aggreuate her former fault For quem beneficia accepta meliorem non reddunt is certe etiam grauius suppliuum commeretur Hee whome benefites receiued make not better doth deserue the more grieuous punishment And surely the greater the loue of Christ is to the church the greater is the sinne of the church in not performing dutie Novv in the former parte of this sixth chapter her beloued doth comfort her doth assure hir that she is as dere vnto him novv as euer before she had beene So then it is not the excellencie of the church that commendeth her but her spouse through his gracious fauor doth accept of her notvvithstanding her defects which she acknowledgeth To let this passe let vs consider the seuerall parts of this visible church Her King and Lord is the king of peace and Lord himself of al glory the sauior of Sion Esa. 62. 11. a king Iohn 12. 15. and one whose soueraigntie was figured in Melchizedek Heb. 7. 8. So that in regard of this hir king we also do confesse the church to be glorious She enioyeth most holy and heauenly lawes Most true it is that the commandements of Christ are such that it cannot iustly be counted a seruitude to be obedient vnto them yrksome they are no doubt to a carnall man but not to him that loueth God this is it that is witnessed in the places alledged viz. Matt. 11. 30. and 1. Iohn 5. 3. but what are these Lawes and commandements Our Sauiour Christ say they was fortie daies after his resurrection conuersant with his Apostles teaching them those things which concerne the building of the church and kingdome and the Apostles according as they haue receiued instruction of him so they builded and lefte vs a patterne nowe So that these most holie lawes were giuen by Christ to his Apostles betvveene the times of his resurrection and ascention VVhereunto I saie that although the discipline of Christ beeing his owne ordinance is most holy yet this is to put it in the number of vnwritten verities when men would proue it by such arguments as this is And as for the saying of Christ by them produced it doth not speake of discipline for hee onelie willeth his Disciples to take his yoake vpon them I knowe that they take this Yoake for discipline but the circumstaunces of the place do bewraie their ignorance in so thinking For in bearing this yoake CHRIST willeth that his example bee followed Learne of me saith Christ. Nowe I woulde vnderstande of these men what was that Church wherein Christ founde this discipline established and submitted himselfe vnto the same leauing this his deede for an example to bee followed if they cannot tel me this as it is harde to shewe that which neuer was I wonder what hath moued them to wring out discipline from hence seeing that Christ onely exhorteth to submission meeknes c. by his example The Philosopher was not so grosse in his Panspermia as they are in making quidlibet ex quolibet so commonly Yet I saie againe the lawes of Christ are most holy and that discipline which he approueth most necessarie which is not the gouernment which heere is decyphered for it shall appeare to bee the deuice of man without the approbation of the vvord of God but the rule of his worde wherein vvee are taught to emploie our selues in our seuerall callings to performe those dueties which in our callings God requireth at our handes As for the vigilancie of Pastors the sinceritie of Doctors the carefulnesse of Gouernors the trustinesse of those vnto whom the care of the poore is committed the sobrietie of relieuers the humilitie obedience and meekenesse of the people these are required in the word of God and all the testimonies in this cause cited one or two excepted are admonitions exhortations that men wold be carefull of these things as they do concerne them in their callings But do these proofes here vsed iustifie that the visible church enioyeth such a people qualified in this sort Nay those that come neerest the matter as Rom. 12. 7. 8. Act. 20. 28. Matth. 5. 5. Deut. 18. 10. are but exhortations vnto this fidelitie vigilancy c. but no promises that the church shal enioy such men alwayes Some of these scriptures do flatly shew the contrarie Read Act. 20. vers 29. 30. I know saith Paul there shall enter in among you grieuous wolues not sparing the flocke c. It is also the iudgement of some that one of the deacons spoken of Act. 6. was the first of the Nicholaitans mentioned Reuel 2. 6. Other places alleaged are nothing to the purpose as Ioh. 13. 7. which is not spoken of the widowes that here are called releuers but to the disciples of their duties in helping one an other Likewise Esay 60. which is a prophesie of the calling of the Gentiles and Eze. 36. 38. which promiseth a blessing vpon Israell are farre from prouing that euerie member of the visible church is meeke obedient c. thus hath our author tolde vs of many good things without due proofe of any one VVhen this describer of the church had shewed vs the sinceritie of euerie member particularly he giueth his iudge ment of them all iointly saying Euerie stone is liuing elect pretious which is confirmed with three testimonies the first is 1. Reg. 7. 9. where the building of Solomon being shewed in order that he built one house to dwell in an other called the forrest of Libanon a porch for the throne where he iudged and a house also for Pharaos daughter it is said All these were of costlie stones And how then did euerie of these buildinges to what vse soeuer they were appointed represent the visible church of God The onely sight of this place is sufficient to shew what force it hath to prooue the matter in question The second place is Zach. 14. 21. Euerie pot in Ierusalem and Iuda shall be holie vnto the Lord of hostes and all they that sacrfice shall come and take of them and seeth therein by this ceremonie the people were put in minde that euerie of them doe worship the Lorde with holy affections but this doeth not prooue that all the people did thus behaue thēselues in Gods worship the contrary is plaine Agg. 2. 11. 12. c. The last place which is 1. Pet. 2. 5. cōmeth more neere the marke for the

Apostle saith that as liuely stones they were made a spirituall house yet he saith not that euery one among them was so and those that were he declareth from whence it came to wit Iesus Christ. In which matter if no further purity be ment by the author we do agree as also that euerie one hath his burthen his order being boūd to edifie one an other exhort reproue and comfort one an other louingly as being members of one bodie and faithfully as in Gods sight The neglect of these duties hath bred nourished continued this late pestilent schisme amongst vs. That the affecting of offices the wresting or neglecting of laws peruerting of truth are not incident to the church is newes too good to be true as shal appere euen by the selfe same places of scripture which here are set in the margent as good proofes of the authors follies whiles that they do so flatly gainesay that which they should iustifie For manie make merchandize of the word 2. Cor. 2. 17. And Diotrephes loueth to haue the preheminence 3. Iohn 9. then is there affecting of offices In the latter times some shall speake lies through hipocrisie and haue their consciences burned with an hot iron 1. Timoth. 4. 2. And some desiring to make a faire shew in the flesh constraine men to be circumcised Galat. 6. 12. then is there peruerting of trueth The Corinthians were negligent in proceeding against the incestuous person 1. Cor. 5. then is there neglecting of lawes VVhat shall we then say to this man who woulde make the world beleue that the scriptures do confirme that which they do so directly and plainely deny Let him pronounce the sentence vpon him selfe He saith The prophet that hath a dreame let him tell a dreame and he that hath Gods word let him speake Gods word faithfully Ier. 23. 28. and so say I for it is a vile abuse that is offered to God and man when a dreame or fancie is countenaunced with the scriptures which doe ouerthrow it What is the chaffe to the wheat Timothie durst not thus behaue himselfe in Gods house 1. timoth. 3. 15. Euerie member of the church say they ought to haue freedome to vtter his complaintes and griefes yea and not disturbing the peaceable order of the church by passing the boundes of his calling to reproue transgressions and errors this we grant of our owne accord not being vrged hereunto by any thing mentioned 1. Corinth 6. or 14. 30. which proue it not but that the estate of the visible church is such that euerie member hath alwaies this freedome we deny it Also we say that as there may be intrusion or climing vp an other way into the sheepefold through mens corruptions then by the election of those to whome election doth belong so woulde it be a horrible cōfusion if the election of offices were left in the hands of the people as in this platforme of discipline they doe teach vs but that the people should haue their interest in ordination also is more then grosse For proofe whereof I will not stand vppon those places of Paule 1. Tim. 5. 22. lay not thy hand rashlie on anie man and Tit 15. for this cause left I thee at Creete that thou mightest appoint Elders in euerie citie because that although they flatly gainesay the ordination of Elders by the people yet they seeme not sufficient vnto some to infringe the libertie of the people in election also because that Luke shewing howe Paule and Barnabas appointed Elders in the churches saith that they did it by consent And it is not to be thought saith Caluin that Paule did grant a greater liberty to Timothie and Titus then he tooke vnto himselfe for which purpose is also alleged Ciprian who would vt sacerdos plebe presente sub omnium oculis deligatur atque dignus atque idoneus publico iudicio cōprobetur that the priest when the people are present be chosen in the sight of all be approued to be sufficient meete by common consent Vnto all which I say that euen these authorities of Luke Caluin and Ciprian do flatly deny that election should be made by the people for Praeesse electioni debere alios pastores nequid vel per leuitatē vel per mala studia vel per tumultū à multitudine peccetur Other pastors ought to rule the election lest the multitude faile either through lightnes or by euill practises or tumult so that howsoeuer it be granted by these places cited that a wise people ought to haue their cōsent in election yet if they be tumultuous ill cōditioned or void of grauity as generally the cōmon sort are fautie in one of these then ought other pastors to rule yea and ouerrule thē Those churches also which by the iudgement of our author himselfe are most reformed who admit not any thing of weight to be don inscia vel inuita ecclesia yet whatsoeuer pertaineth to the state of the church they haue the same disposed by the cōmon counsel of the Elder ship so that election is in their power the people consenting vnto them And therfore not to presse the authority of Chrisostom writing about the yere of our lord 500. saith flatly that neither people nor Elders were to elect a bishop or a minister but the bishop only neither election much lesse ordination ought to be at any time in the hands of the multitude furder then in giuing cosent vnto the pastors nor at all to be regarded if they be such as before haue bin mentioned and therfore as these men are vaine in arrogating more then this so are they vaine in censuring the churche of Englande for that it leaueth not this election vnto the people whose ignorance is generally great for want of instruction whose heads are generally very tumultuous by the meanes of such as this our author is VVhy are not they a holie and free people Indeede when Corah and his companie had gathered them selues togither against Moses and Aaron they said Ye take too much vpon you seeing all the congregation is holie euerie one of them and the Lord is among them But I doubt I should iniurie Corah by comparing these men vnto him for he vnder the pretense of holinesse and freedome sought onely to be priuiledged from submission but these our men vnder the same vaile content not thēselues herewith but in their aspiring minds do seeke to bring not the gouernement of the church onely but of the weale publike also into their handes for obtaining where of they lay this platforme first that priuatmen are to erect and establish this gouernment of theirs and then it being erected that all matters both ciuill and ecclesiastical are to be ordered by the same The later of these two pointes wil be manifest hereafter in their description of an Elder who as they say must discerne betweene plea and plea c. And as touching the former point