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A63637 The true Protestant religion set forth by way of dialogue discovering the idolatries and abominations professed and taught in the Church of Rome / by a Presbyter of the Church of England. Presbyter of the Church of England. 1683 (1683) Wing T2864; ESTC R4661 28,790 38

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implies Contradictions very many to the Belief of which no Faith can oblige us and which no reason can endure Child I pray Sir what do they teach concerning the Cup Father That you shall see in the Article which runs thus I confess also that whole and entire Christ and the true Sacrament is received under one only Species of Bread Child By this Article I am apt to think they do not give the Cup to the People and indeed so I have heard but do they dare to do so Father Yes Notwithstanding we read in the Gospel Matth. 26.26.27 That Jesus took the Bread and blessed it and break it and gave it to his Disciples And he took the Cup and gave it to them saying drink ye all of it Child I wonder at this very much I pray Sir what do the Christians of the Church of England say to this Father We say 't is Sacriledge and tell them plainly that they do dismember the Institution of Christ and prevaricate his express Law and Creed from the practice of the Apostles Child What do the Papists say to this Father They take Liberty to say and do what they please for tho they confess it was the Institution of Christ and the Practice of the Primitive Church yet they lay it aside and curse all them that say they do amiss in it that is they curse them that follow Christ and his Apostles and his Church while themselves deny to follow them Child The Lord deliver me from Communion with such a Church Have they any more such Articles of Faith Father Yes The eighth Article is I constantly hold that there is a Purgatory and that Souls there detained are holpen by the Suffrages of the faithful Child I have heard indeed that the Papists talk much of Purgatory but is there any such place Father As I said of Transubstantiation so I say of Purgatory neither name nor thing is to be found in Scripture nor the primitive Fathers of the Church for above a thousand years nay the Scripture is express against it He that heareth my word and believeth on him that sent me hath eternal Life and cometh not into Judgment but passeth from Death unto Life John 5.24 Blessed are the dead that dye in the Lord from henceforth even so saith the Spirit that they may rest from their Labours Rev. 14.13 If the dead in Christ be at Rest then the doctrine of the horrible pains of Purgatory is as false as 't is uncomfortable Child One would wonder why the Church of Rome should invent and defend such an idle thing as Purgatory is Father You are Child much deceived in this 't is no such idle thing as you imagine the Fire of Purgatory maintains the Fire in the Pope's Kitchin for though it be said that the Souls in Purgatory are holpen by the Suffrages of the faithful yet certain it is the Pope lays claim to a greater Power in that infernal Territory and boasteth to possess the Keys thereof and to open and shut at his Pleasure especially to such as are rich and liberal and the Priests for saying Masses and Dirges get more money than you can imagine Child Nay if it be so gainful 't is no wonder for I have heard 't is a Proverb with them No Penny no Pater noster But I pray proceed what is the ninth Article Father Likewise that the Saints reigning with Christ are to be worshipped and invocated and that they offer Prayers for us to God and that their Relicks are to be worshipped Child Do the Papists worship the Saints Father Yes They worship the Virgin Mary and all the Saints though Christ says plainly Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God and him only shalt thou serve Mat. 4.10 They worship likewise the Angels and particularly their Guardian Angel though the Angels abhor it I fell down to worship before the Feet of the Angel which shewed me these things Then said he unto me see thou do it not for I am thy Fellow-Servant and of thy Brethren the Prophets and of them which keep the Sayings of this Book worship God Revel 22.8 9. Child What Worship do they give to the Saints Father They pray to them they worship and invocate them more than God like the Heathen who changed the Truth of God into a Lye and worshipped and served the Creature more than the Creator who is blessed for ever Amen Rom. 1.25 Child Have they any guide for this Father No They have neither Precept nor Promise nor Example for it in the Word of God Child But are they sure the Saints hear them Father No neither Doubtless thou art our Father though Abraham be ignorant of us and Israel know us not Isa 63.16 so David Psal 73.25 Whom have I in Heaven but thee and there is none upon Earth that I desire besides thee Child But do they worship not only the Saints themselves but their Relicks also Father Yes They put them in Glasses and Gauderies above the Altar and that to have them adored They have this day the Milk of the Virgin which they say is as precious as the Blood of Christ and her Slippers and her Work-basket and Joseph's Breeches and the Navel-string of Christ and a thousand other things which they keep and shew to be worshipped And yet St. Paul says Act. 14.15 Sirs Why do you these things We also are men of like Passions with you and preach unto you that you should turn from these Vanities unto the Living God Child Is there any thing else that they worship Father Yes The tenth Article is I most firmly assert that the Images of Christ the Virgin Mary and of the other Saints are to be had and kept and duty of Honour and worship to be given them Child Is not this point-blanck contrary to the Word of God Father Yes The Commandment is plain Thou shalt not make to thy self any graven Image nor the Likeness of any thing that is in Heaven above or in the Earth beneath or that is in the Water under the Earth Thou shalt not bow down thy self to them nor serve them Exod. 20.4.5 Notwithstanding they make Images of God the Father in the likeness of an old man of God the Son hanging on the Cross and of God the Holy Ghost in the likeness of a Dove They make also the Image of the Virgin Mary and cloth her like a Lady and call her Queen of Heaven and also of the Apostles and other Saints and they put off their Hats they kneel and fall down and pray before them Child If this be not Idolatry I know not what is I pray Sir what is the next Article Father The eleventh Article is I also affirm that the Power of Indulgences was left in the Church by Christ and that the use of them is most conducive to Salvation of the Christian people Child Do they give Indulgence or Pardon for Sin Father Yes The Pope giveth Indulgence or Pardon for Sin sometimes for
with the same Medicine that some have cured sick persons with holy Bread and Oyl which indeed is the most likely of them all as being good Food and good Medicine And although not so much as a Chicken is now a days cured of the Pip by holy Water yet upon all Occasions they use it and the common people throw it upon Childrens Cradles and sick Cows horns and upon them that they think bewitched or blasted and if they recover by any means it is imputed to the Holy-water and so the Simplicity of Christian Religion the glory of our Dependance upon God and the Holiness and mystery of Sacraments are disordered and dishonour'd Thus the Israelites did when they fell to Idolatry they joyned themselves to Baal Peor and eat the Sacrifices of the dead thus they provoked him to anger with their Inventions Psal 106.28 29. and v. 39. Thus were they defiled with their own Works and went a whoring with their own Inventions Child Is there any thing else that they teach of the Sacraments to be observed Father Yes There is yet one great Instance more of their Irreligion they are taught to rely upon the Sacraments with so little of moral and vertuous Dispositions that the Efficacy of one is made to lessen the Necessity of the other and the Sacraments are taught to be so effectual by an inherent Vertue that they are not so much made the Instruments of Vertue as the Supplement not so much to encrease as to make amends for the want of Grace contrary to that of the Apostle Whosoever shall eat this Bread and drink this Cup of the Lord unworthily shall be guilty of the Body and Blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself and so let him eat of that Bread and drink of that Cup 1 Cor. 11.27 28. Child By this I suppose they do not think Repentance is needful to fit and prepare us for the Lords-table I pray Sir what do they teach concerning that Duty Father They are so loose in the Doctrine of Repentance that you cannot imagine it I shall therefore shew you what we and they teach concerning that Duty and conclude this Discourse Child I pray Sir first shew me then what we teach concerning Repentance Father Our Protestant Doctors teach that Repentance is an inward and true sorrow for Sin especially that we have offended so gracious a God and so loving a Father together with a settled purpose of Heart and a careful endeavour to leave all our Sins and to live a Christian Life according to all God's Commandments The Sacrifices of God are a broken Spirit a broken and a contrite Heart O God thou wilt not despise Ps 51.17 Child How is this Grace wrought in us Father 'T is wrought in us partly by the threatning of the Law and the fear of God's Judgments but especially increased by feeling the Fruit of Christ's Death whereby we have power to hate Sin and to leave it Child Wherein doth Repentance properly consist Father In a through changing of our purpose and desires from the Evil which God's word rebuketh in us to the good which it requireth of us Child Can men repent of themselves or when they list Father No for it is the gift of God given to them that are born again Child When is this Repentance to be practised Father The practice of Repentance ought to be a continual abhorring of Evil and cleaving unto that which is good for as much time as remains in the Flesh after our Confusion yet at some times there ought to be a more special practice and renewing thereof as after grievous Falls as we see in David Psal 51. and in fear of eminent Judgments which the Prophet calls for Amos 4.12 Because I will do this unto thee prepare to meet thy God O Israel Or when we should fit our selves to receive special mercies as when we come to the Lord's Table c. Child You have shewed me the Protestant Doctrine of Repentance I pray God give me Grace to practise it all the dayes of my life But I pray Sir Do not the Papists teach the same Father No. They teach 1. That a Sinner is not bound to repent of his Sin presently if it be done at any time 't is sufficient Some say he is bound by the Precept of the Church to repent upon the great Holidays others say once a year at Easter but 't is the general opinion that by the Law of God they are not tied to so much but only to repent in the danger or Article of Death from whence some conclude that to refuse to repent is but a venial sin but others say 't is none at all Child This seems to me to be intolerable Have they any more such Doctrines Father Alas Child this is but the beginning of sorrows The next thing therefore that I shall mention is their Doctrines concerning Contrition which when it is true and cordial for having sinn'd against God the the Church of Rome does not allow it to be of any value unless it be joyn'd with a desire to confess their Sins unto a Priest and this is decreed by the Councel of Trent contrary to all Scripture to the Doctrine of the Prophets Ezek. 18.30 Repent and turn your selves from all your Transgressions so Iniquity shall not be your ruine to the Doctrine of the Apostles Repent and be converted that your sins may be blotted out Act. 3.19 But this is not all for as Contrition without Confession will not reconcile us to God so Attrition as they call it proceeding from fear of damnation together with their Sacrament will do as well There is no necessity of Contrition at all If a man live a wicked life 60 or 80 years together yet if in the Article of his Death he be but a little sorrowful for his Sins and though this Sorrow hath in it no love of God but only a fear of Hell if the Priest absolves him he passes him instantly into a state of Salvation The Priest with two fingers and a thumb can do his work for him in a moment Child Vpon these terms it is a wonder that all wicked men in the World are not Papists where they may live so merrily and dye so securely but is not Confession a troublesome thing to them Father Not at all They have an easie formal way of it I confess unto Almighty God to the Blessed V. Mary to blessed Michael the Archangel to blessed Jo. Baptist to the Holy Apostles Peter and Paul to all the Saints and to you my Ghostly Father that I have very much sinned in thought word and deed through my fault through my fault through my exceeding great fault Therefore I beseech thee B. Virgin Mary blessed Michael the Archangel blessed John Baptist the holy Apostles Peter and Paul all the Saints and you my Ghostly Father to pray unto our Lord God for me And when they see Princes and Prelates Women and Boyes do the same every