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death_n	end_n	let_v	life_n	5,045	5	4.6448	4	false

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A43724	A continuation of The dialogue between a Christian and a Quaker wherein the truth of those things objected against them in the first part, are fully confirm'd : together with a further account of their perilous and pernitious errors concerning the person of Christ, His satisfaction, justification, sanctification, the ministry, and immediate motions are in this second part, cleerly and plainly represented out of the writings of some of their principal, and most approved leaders / published for the common information of such as either really are, or may be, in danger of being insnared and intangled by them by Thomas Hicks.	Hicks, Thomas, 17th cent.	1673 (1673)	Wing H1919; ESTC R21822	53,818	100

accuse us with affirming that Christ is in every man Whitehead Christ ascended p. 66. Chr. What vile hypocrisie and deceit is this Whitehead guilty of he himself saith The Scriptures direct to the Rule that is the light within that gave them forth Christ ascended p. 42. Burroughs affirms That they who deny Christ to be the light in every man are Antichrists But I would ask Whitehead whether this light or gift be created or increated If the former then 't is but a meer creature If the latter as he affirms in his Dip. Pl. p. 13. To say the light within every man is a meer creature is saith he contrary to plain Scripture which saith In him was life and the life was the light of men this life and light is divine and increated Is Whitehead then to be believed in saying 'T is not your Principle to say Christ is in every man whilst he openly denies the light within to be a creature and saith 'T is divine and increated This kind of saying and denying is so common with him that I profess 't is a very hard and difficult point with me to know when he speaks as he thinks from the whole you see I had just reason to accuse you for denying the person of Christ But since you own the name Christ and do make use of it pray what doth it signifie Quak. Christ signifies anointed Chr. If God himself be Christ as Penn saith I would quere whether God himself was anointed If you will dare to affirm this then tell me by whom with what and to what end he was anointed Quak. This we say that Christ as the Son of God before the world before he took Flesh was the anointed of God which anointing was spiritual and spiritually received by the heavenly Birth the anointed the holy seed Whitehead Christ ascended p. 68. Chr. This is still as much as to say that God himself was anointed If so what was the unction by whom powred upon him and wherefore Quak. Now thou obtrudes questions Chr. Will you not speak intelligibly Is it not necessary to understand who is the Christ and wherefore he was anointed what signifies your saying The anointing was spiritual and spiritually received by the heavenly birth the holy seed Is God himself a heavenly Birth did he receive the anointing pray be plain and do not lurk in ambiguous terms neither let us be put off with your blasphemous absurdities but speak home to the point Quak. Alas for thee these are mysteries thy dark mind cannot conceive or understand Chr. Is it not your duty who pretend to be under infallible teachings to endeavour my information in such important and weighty matters Quak. Wilt thou deny that the Son of God before the world before he took flesh was the anointed of God Chr. I do not deny but really believe the eternal Deity of the Son of God yet I do deny that the meer Godhead of the Son was the anointed Saviour And thou must prove that the Son of God meerly as God is the Christ for what thou hast yet said is no proof Quak. Is not what I have said sufficient Chr. In no wise however thou mayst take time to consider on it mean while let me ask thee whether Christ was not Gods gift Quak. Yea he was so Chr. To what end and in what respect is he the gift of God Quak. His Doctrine Life Miracles Death and Sufferings to God is the gift and expression of Gods eternal love for the salvation of men Penns Sand. Foun p. 19. Chr. Thou hast affirmed That God is Christ if so did God himself die and suffer to God and therein express his love for the salvation of men or if the Son of God the heavenly Birth which was before the world and before he took flesh as Whitehead talks be only the anointed Saviour was this simply of it self given to die and suffer to God or if the meer light within be the Christ will you say This was given to die and suffer to God and therein to express Gods eternal love for the salvation of men who can understand these things Are not such dictates apparent indications of your distracted minds Quak. We say Christ is the gift of Gods eternal love for the salvation of men and wilt thou deny this Chr. Though I do grant it yet I see you will take a liberty to say that at one time and in one place which can never be reconciled with your sayings in another and that you run your selves into such a labyrinth of confusion and contradiction that all the light you have cannot extricate you out of and consequently that your pretences to infallibility is a meer lying delusion For you neither consist with the truth nor your selves yet give me leave to ask you whether one great end wherefore Christ was given and came into the world was not to seek and to save such that were lost Quak. Yea he came to seek and to save the lost Chr. But who or what is this that was lost Quak. That which was lost is still in mans heart and there it must be sought for it remains still in the house that is mans heart This is the thing to be sought for This Christ came to seek and save and all his Ministers preach'd people to this the lost in man that it might be found a lost God a lost Christ this was the sum and substance of their Doctrine G. Keith Im. Re. p. 75 76. Chr. Blush O Heavens and be astonish'd O Earth was ever such a thing as this heard of before that Jesus Christ came to seek and save a lost God a lost Christ was ever God and Christ in a lost condition If you had said That Jesus Christ came to seek and save Sinners who were in a lost condition and to stir them up to seek after God whom they had lost you had spoken safely But to say this Christ came to seek and save and all his Ministers preach'd people to this the lost in man a lost God a lost Christ Is not capable of any construction less then blasphemy To this agrees James Naylor who said Christ came to redeem the seed within which he often calls Christ Is this another of those things you say are necessary to be reveal'd to you which are not to be found in Scripture not so much as by consequence And are these your instances to prove you under immediate Inspirations If they be they will prove no more nor no less then this that you are immediately inspired and influenced by that grand Impostor the Devil Pray what is your Opinion concerning Justification by that Righteousness of Christ which he in his own Person fulfil'd for us wholly without us Quak. Justification by the Righteousness which Christ fulfil'd for us in his own Person wholly without us we boldly affirm it to be a doctrine of Devils and an arm of the Sea of corruption which doth now deluge the World William

constantly affirm then the shedding of Christ's blood upon the Cross was needless and to no purpose Isaac Pennington who I suppose is an approved Quaker asks this question Can outward blood cleanse Therefore saith he We must enquire whether it was the blood of the Vail that is of the humane nature or the blood within the Vail viz. of that spiritual man consisting of Flesh Blood and Bones which took on him the Vail or humane Nature 'T is not the blood of the Vail that is but outward and can outward blood cleanse if not then that blood which Christ shed upon the Cross which was the blood of the Humane Nature is no more then a common thing Secondly If the sufferings of Christ were only exemplary as you likewise affirm then what more do you attribute to the blood of Christ then to the blood and sufferings of other holy persons Thirdly If the mystery of Iniquity lies in the blood of Christ as Edw. Billing most wickedly said it did then is the blood of Christ in your esteem worse then the blood of a common Thief Farther what signifies these words which frequently drop from your mouths Dost thou look at Christs Death afar off what will that Blood avail Didst ever see any of it That carnal blood can outward blood cleanse If thou hadst a great deal of it would it do thee any good Do not these Interrogatories carry with them an open scorn and contempt of that blood which was shed upon the Cross consequently that which is charged upon you is no forgery Quak. Thou sayst we make use of Scripture onely to stop their mouths who call for Scripture proof this is a Slander Chr. If the Scriptures be no Rule yea if it be Idolatry to call the Bible a means as Whitehead expresly sayes it is D. P. pag. 13. Who also affirms That faith grounded on the Scriptures is but an empty Implicit Faith and be-speaks such persons void of the Knowledge of God Christ Salvation and to be yet in their Sins and that such men walk by their own Fancies and Imaginations Christ ascended p. 11. Solo Eccles a great admirer of George Fox discoursing with a Friend of mine in London told him The Scriptures were a lye To whom 't was replyed Why then dost thou mention them The Quaker answer'd To silence thee Nicolas Lucas a real Quaker was moved to declare his mind thus to one I know very well Thou mayst burn thy Bible and when that is done thou mayst serve God as well without it and if thou hast a mind to have a Scripture thou mayst write as good a one thy self Many more instances might be produced these may suffice to acquit me from forgery in this particular what more hast thou to say Quak. Thou sayst that Fox Dewsberry Crisp Whitehead and Pen are exceedingly corrupt in their Morals herein thou hast spoken falsly Chr. Hast thou bid adieu to common honesty art thou endeavouring to prove me a Forgerer and yet at the same time be guilty of it thy self See the Dialogue p. 43. which saith Some of them are exceedingly corrupt in their Morals If you think it your interest to put me on the proof hereof you may when you please and I doubt not if well but to give you full satisfaction herein provided that wilful lying fornication and adultery may be accounted Immoralities what further hast thou to alledge against me Quak. Thou reports that the Quakers deny the resurrection of the Body which is false Chr. George Whitehead in my hearing before near a hundred Witnesses did deny it in these words This Body of flesh and bones shall not rise again who also saith enough in his Pamphlet to acquit me from forgery herein Quak. Thou insinuates as if our sufferings were onely to satisfie our Wills and Lusts herein thou dost greatly wrong us Chr. In this I onely queried what it should be that doth influence you to suffer forasmuch as you deny that this Body shall rise from the dead and consequently can be never the better for what you do or suffer And G. Fox maintains That the Soul is part of Gods Being c. and therefore not capable either of prejudice or advantage whether you suffer or not Again is there any people that ever boasted so vainly of their Sufferings as you do that scarce a Pamphlet can come out from you but the World must hear of your brags in this kind which can have no other meaning then to feed that Principle of Pride that reigns in you and to gain Proselites to your errors c. Quak. Thou also sayst We deny any eternal advantage to be reaped by persons after death In this thou dost abuse us Chr. This is no other then the genuine and direct consequence of denying the resurrection of this Body See 1 Cor. 15.13 14. If no resurrection then is not Christ risen If Christ be not risen then is our preaching vain and your faith vain and ye are yet in your Sins ver 17. Why stand I in jeopardy every hour ver 30. What advantageth me that I have fought with Beasts at Ephesus Let us eat and drink for to morrow we dye ver 32. If we ask you whether a further happiness then now shall be injoy'd by the Saints at the last day you will answer by another question When thinks thou that will be must all the Saints have their hope and faith unanswer'd till then Whitehead Christ ascended p. 34. If we inquire whether you do not wait for any thing further you will tell us That Death and Darkness hath power over our Minds else we would never shew our selves such ignorant Papists in putting Salvation so far off till we know not when according to our carnal conceits Whitehead ibid. If hereupon we ask you Whether you injoy eternal life and felicity now This is your answer The recompence of reward viz. eternal life and felicity is inwardly and spiritually received by those that now suffer for Christ Whitehead ibid. p. 37. I suppose by this time thou art at least may be satisfied that in these instances I was not guilty of forgery and consequently Geo. Whitehead's pretended answer to me carries a manifest lye in the front of it as any may perceive who compares it with the Dialogue Quak. I say thy Dialogue is proved an unchristian forgery Chr. It was inconsiderately and imprudently done by thee to put such words in thy very Title Page since there is nothing in all thy Pamphlet that proves any such thing but the contrary Quak. Thy Dialogue is not onely a forgery but it abounds with contradictions Chr. This thou sayst though the particulars thou hast taken notice of evince no such thing However so it hath hapned though I think not designedly by thee thou hast fully justified that Answer in the Catechism p. 72. You will make your Friends believe we do nothing but contradict our selves Wast thou advised and discreet herein thus to vindicate me even

he by witnessing the Word made Flesh Is it any thing more then the Seed Light or Power within But is this to the question Doth the Scripture by the Word being made Flesh intend onely the Light within many thousands that in all things walk not up to the light in them do believe that the Word was made Flesh onc't contrary to the bold assertion of this man That they must be obedient to the Light within before they can witness or believe this thing 'T is easie to guess what your notions are concerning the Word made Flesh Burroughs saith the Querist is darness it self if so then surely he had no light in him to tell him he was in the sorcery and witchcraft If no light how is your opinion true That every man hath Christ or his light in him is it possible for that man in whom Christ or his Light is to be darkness it self And how could he be obedient to the light within if he had none to obey Again is a serious proposal about the Word being made Flesh onc't an argument of one being in the sorcery and witchcraft O stupendious madness and folly And if the Querist be the Dragon and hath his Angels I would willingly know of some of them who have commended his memorable Works to the Ages to come who or what these Angels are And since he hath already doom'd and pass'd sentence upon the rest of the Queres as being conjured in the Black Art out of the bottomless Pit we may plainly foresee what Answers they are like to be attended with nevertheless I shall proceed 2. Q. Whether did the man Christ slain in respect of God's Decree and efficacy from the foundation of the World really and indeed suffer death as upon the Cross at Jerusalem more or oftner then once Quak. In this Quere thou Diviner art found adding to the Scriptures the Divination of thy own Brain whereupon the Plagues of God are to be added to thee Oh thou lyar where doth the Scriptures speak as thou speaks here But in the light thou art seen and art for the condemnation The man Christ we own and witness and the Lambs Book of life which was slain from the foundation of the World we witness the Lamb of God and thee to be the Beast that makes war with the Lamb and thou Antichrist which looks at Christs death at Jerusalem alone so let all thy Congregation see what they hold up that follows thee Edw. Burroughs ibid. p. 30. Chr. Can any man be the wiser for this Answer Is it Antichristian to look at Christ's death at Jerusalem Doth the man Christ die in you and must he be onely look'd at as so dying The question is plain whether the man Christ did really suffer death as upon the Cross more then onc't though Edw. Burroughs saith 'T was conjured up in the Black Art and accordingly in his canting way answers We witness the Lamb of God But what is this witnessing to the point or is Diviner Lyar and Beast a fit reply to so harmless an enquiry I see though you cannot or will not answer a question in plain and intelligigible terms yet you can and will freely curse and damn the Querist And whilst you pretend to own and witness the Man Christ c. you sufficiently intimate your erronious thoughts concerning the Sufferings of Christ upon the Cross though you are ashamed or afraid to speak them out 3. Q. Whether did the Man Christ really and indeed suffer in his own Person for that end and after the same manner which he did upon the Cross at Jerusalem before that time or since that time Quak. Here thou full of all subtilty hast manifested thy poyson and enmity but thou art seen with the Light and with it condemn'd for ever Christ Jesus in his own Person doth and ever did suffer by thee and such as thou art after the same manner Thou blind Pharisee and Blasphemer wouldst thou have Christ have more ends in suffering then one Ibid. p. 30. Chr. Whether there be more poyson and enmity manifested in the Question or in the Answer I leave others to judge Was Christ indeed actually crucified upon the Cross by the Querist and doth Christ alwayes suffer after the same manner and for the same end as he did when crucified at Jerusalem If so How is the Body of Jesus Christ said to be offer'd once for all And why is it call'd an offering of one Sacrifice Heb. 10.10 12 14. Be free and plain let us know whether you do believe that Christ did and doth suffer in his own person for the same end and after the same manner as he did upon the Cross both before that time and since that time or deny it else say you cannot or that 't is not convenient to give a positive answer 4. Q. Was not that death which the Man Christ suffer'd once and but once upon the Cross at Jerusalem so satisfactory for all the Sins of the Elect as that the justice of God did not doth not require any suffering or working upon that account either from Sinner or Saint Quak. Here thou Jesuite art pleading for a Christ afar off thee that Christ which died at Jerusalem did not satisfie for thee who art an enemy to him and art under the woe and from that woe thou shalt never flee The death of the Man Christ we own and witness The same Christ that suffer'd we witness made manifest And here thou lyar art made manifest to be a lyar who said We deny that Christ which died at Jerusalem so let thy mouth be stopt thou lyar who art for the lake And whereas thou queries whether the justice of God be not satisfied for the Sins of the Elect let shame strike thee in the face that thou should take upon thee to speak to any people and knowest not the Scripture where reads thou that God requires satisfaction for the Sins of the Elect or laid any thing to their Charge Let all people see whether thou be not a blind ignorant sot Ibid. p. 30 31. Chr. It seems by this Answer 't is Jesuitical to plead for that Christ which died at Jerusalem which Burroughs calls a Christ afar off Then in what sense must you be understood when you say You own the same Christ that suffer'd If the death of the same man you do truly and without reserved meanings acknowledge why do you stigmatize the Querist for pleading for that Christ The Querist is accused for a lyar for saying You deny that Christ which died at Jerusalem and yet Edw. Burroughs calls him Jesuit for pleading for a Christ afar off Is not this to acquit his Accuser and plainly to condemn himself for a rash and peevishman That Burroughs did really lye and dissemble in his pretences to own the same Christ doth in part appear in his Answer and will more fully in the sequel of this Dialogue How did this Quaker know that Christ did not satisfie

it certainly save me A. There is no doubt of that Q. VVhat assurance may I have thereof A. If it do not I dare be hang●d R. W. Q. Of what advantage will thy hanging be to me if I should miscarry A. Now thou taunts Q. Dost thou not administer the occasion A. I see thou art still in the envious mind Q. Do you believe a state of Immmortality and eternal felicity A. We own and witness to an Immortal state Geo. W. Q. Do you believe a farther happiness shall be injoy'd by the Saints at the last day than now A. When thinks thou that will bee must all the Saints have their hopes and faith of Salvation unanswered till then G. W. Chr. Asc p. 34. Q. Do not you wait for any thing farther A. Surely death and darkness hath power over thy mind else thou would'st never shew thy self such an ignorant Papist in putting Salvation so far off till thou know'st not when according to thy carnal conceits G. W. ibid. Q. Is eternal life and felicity injoy'd now A. Is not the recompence of reward Eternal life and felicity inwardly and Spiritually received by those that Now suffer for Christ G. W. ibid. p. 37. Q. Is your belief in these points consonant to the Doctrine delivered in the holy Scripture A. I have told thee that it is necessary for us to have things reveal'd to us that are not to be found in the Scriptures particularly not so much as by consequence G. Keith Q. Must we be concluded meerly by your sayings and Imaginations A. We are of God and they who withstand our testimony are in the gall of bitterness W. Pen. Such that interrogate us we will tell them they are Reprobates and in the Sorcery and Witchcraft Enemies to the life that they are filthy polluted Beasts Serpents querying with conjured words and that they are blind and ignorant Sots Edw. Bur. Q. Is what you say concerning such certainly true A. The Judgment we passe upon them they shall eternally Witness Edw. Burroughs Q. If such as Edw. Burroughs George Whitehead and W. Pen. may be accounted true Ministers whom shall we esteem false A. They who say the Scriptures are the rule that deny Christ to be the Light in every man Q. Doth not your Ministry deny Christs Person maintain justification by works and that not according to the tenour of the second but of the first covenant cursing people for doing what they bid them Impose on us the grossest falshoods and most irreconcileable contradictions under the pretence of immediate Inspirations as if it were not enough for them to be wicked alone unlesse they could make God himself O Horrid villany an accessory with them A sort of men that will affirm and deny at pleasure One while say they own the Person of Christ Another while deny he hath any personal being without men Now they will confesse the very Christ who dyed at Jerusalem anon they tell us that Christ was but a figure a shaddow passed away and why should we trouble our selves with that Jesus and To concern our selves about his second personal Coming is but puzling about silly and foolish things When they say Christ came to redeem man If we sift their meaning 't is nothing but the Seed the principle of God in man that wants redemption If we tell them of their faults they aggravate them by persisting therein and whil'st they rail at their accusers justifie the Accusation it self as is the manner of your Dictator Will. Pen. who of late hath been so extravagant in his writings that scarce a man that reads him but thinks him to be either distracted or worse and yet must we believe such as these are true Ministers A. Why speakest thou so severely against W. Pen Q. Have I not sufficient reason I profess were I as he I would sue thee at the Common-Law thus an eminent Quaker spoke to a friend of mine Q. VVhy so A. Because thou hast disparaged him Q. Hath W. Pen a dispensation to write or speak without controul Is he a Vniversal Dictator A. I would have him seek his remedy against thee at the Common-Law Q. VVould such a practice agree with your principle of Liberty of Conscience A. Liberty to reflect on such as W. Pen is not to be allow'd no Liberty but in the Power G. Fox Q. You take a Liberty to curse and revile others who give you no just cause And may not we take notice when or wherein you err and soberly put you in mind thereof A. What we do is nothing to thee we are in the Power we know we are of God therefore all that withstand our testimony are in the gall of bitterness W. Pen. Q. If now under your present circumstances you manifest such a mind what might we expect from you were your Power answerable to your VVills A. Alas for thee we are an innocent people Q. VVe have nothing but your own words for it your envenom'd malice against others your Tyrannical actings amongst your selves gives us sufficient intimations that 't will be dangerous trusting the Old man in you A farther account of you and your Tenets you may expect as opportunity and occasion is offered as yet I have mostly been concerned about your opinions and have been sparing touching your practices which is not for want of Instances for I do give you to understand That as Horrid enormities are raigning under the vizor and garb of a Quaker as amongst any other sort of men only with this difference Yours are more Aggravated by your pretences to perfection which pretence is no more than a meer fraud whereby you deceive many simple people If therefore you will provoke me to speak all I can either respecting your opinions or practices blame not me but thank your selves if the event answer not your expectation The End Errata PAg. 13. lin 16. for salvation r. salutation p. 26. l. 6. dele Christ l. 7. r. Christ p. 68. l. 32. for at r. act p. 79. l. 18. for sufficient r. in sufficient