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A51572 The Messias of the Christians and the Jewes held forth in a discourse between a Christian, and a Iew obstinately adhering to his strange opinions, & the forced interpretations of scripture, wherein Christ the true savior of the whole world is described from the prophets and likewise that false and counterfeited Messias of the Jewes, who in vaine is expected by that nation to this very day, is discovered / written first in Hebrew, but now rendered into English by Paul Isaiah, a Jew born, but now a converted and baptized Christian. Münster, Sebastian, 1489-1552.; Eliazar Bar-Isajah. 1655 (1655) Wing M3039A; ESTC R42183 58,523 257

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to bee fed with flesh Wee must think the same of them for the time when they were in the Arke of Noah for if devouring creatures had destroi'd the devourable creatures one kind had been wanting in the world forasmuch as onely two and two were carried into the Ark and no more in one kind unlesse you would rather say seven and seven of cleane beasts were carried in for the necessity of the devouring Some likewise expound these words figuratively because the wolfe and the leopard the beare and the lyon doe signifie wicked men tyrants and violent extortioners who fal upon the weak and poor as devouring creatures fall upon the weak cattell For the sheep the cow the calf and kid do signifie the poor of the earth But there shall be so great a peace in the earth in the daies of the Messias that no man shall wrong his neighbor I allow not this exposition for the Prophet saith they shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountaine Christian But I thinke this exposition true seeing that Rabbi Moses the Egyptian write in his readings upon the book of Iudges after this manner Let it not enter into thy heart that in the daies of the Messias any thing is diminished of the course of this world or any thing then renued of the workes of the six daies but the world shall have then its succession like the succession of this time So likewise of that place the wolf shal dwel wth the lamb c. This is the sence that Israel shall dwell in safety with the wicked of the world who are compared to lions wolfes and leopards Finally in the time of the Messias it shall be knowne to all for what cause those similitudes were spoken and what is signified by them Thus much the mentioned Rabbi Moses saith and after this manner Iacob called Iuda a lyons whelpe and Isachar he called a strong asse and Benjamin a wolfe c. But let us returne to the Prophecy Iew In the daies of the Messias peace shall bee through the whole world as it is written And they shall beate their swords into plow-shares c. neither shall nation lift up sword against nation and they shall not learne the use of war We may also say that the nature of beasts shall not be changed but they shall devoure flesh as they doe now But the Lord shall defend the land of Israel that evill beasts shall not hurt in it as it is written They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain the reason whereof is shewed for the earth is full of the knowledge of the Lord and because the Israelites shall bee good and shall keep the way of the Lord no evill beast shall have any dominion over them neither over their cattell or over any other thing as the Lord promised by Moses our teacher And I will drive out every beast out of the land and if they passe by it it shall not hurt And againe he hath said For the lion shall eat straw like the oxe for he shall not teare the flesh of a beast in the land of Israel though he finde not a carcasse And the infant shall play c. For the enmity of the Serpent contracted from the beginning of the creation shal be taken away in the daies of the Messias through the whole land of Israel and also a Serpent or other evill beasts shall not hurt any of the people of Israel by what place soever he passe Christian Shall your Messias have wife and children Iew Concerning this it is found written thus Kings daughters were among thy honourable women upon thy right hand did stand the Queen in gold of Ophir that is among the noble wives which the Messias shall have shall be the daughters of Kings because every King of the Gentiles shal esteem it for great glory to him if he give him his daughter to wife But the Psalmist saith the Queen stood v. 9. For although the daughters of Kings are nūbred among his wives neverthelesse the Queen who shall be of the Israelites she shall sit at his right hand in a crown of gold and shee is properly called his concubine because she onely and continually is appointed for his bed but others shall come to him at certaine times when hee shall call for them in his time to come to the King but the Queen his wife shall continually be conversant in his closet and bed-chamber Moreover concerning his sons it is thus written He shall see his seed he shall prolong his daies and the desire of the Lord shall prosper in his hand Christian Hoe thou blind Iew are you not ashamed to speak such things of the most holy Messias as if he would give his heart to carnall pleasures and would have many wives seeing that the Prophets have sung of him that he shall come to take away our sins from us Behold thou hast fallen as a blind man at noon day And moreover thou seducest other Iewes with your exposition all these things are to be understood figuratively for that Queen is that peculiar congregation of faithfull men beleeving in the salvation of the Messias and the daughters of Kings are the nations of the Gentiles who came to beleeve in Christ and concerning this Church the spouse of Christ Solomon speakes in the Canticles Iew Some likewise among our Rabbies expound the mentioned verse allegorically almost as you have done except that they understand by the undefiled spouse the Synagogue of Israel Christian But what thinke your Rabbies concerning the death of the Messias shall hee live alwaies or shall hee die as other men after a long time Iew Our great Doctor Moses the son of Maimon saith the Messias shall dye and his son shall reign after him and the son of his son shall succeed after his son in the Kingdome neverthelesse the Messias shall live many daies and at length hee shall die in great glory and his son shall inherit the Empire and after him his Nephew c. Christian Neither you nor the son of Maimon understand the power of God and the mystery of the holy Scriptures For although the Messias was to die yet he was to die for our sins for he was stricken smitten of God and he was afflicted he was wounded for our transgressions he was bruised for our iniquities the chastisement of our peace was upon him and with his stripes we are healed All we like sheep have gone astray we have turned every one to his owne way and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all He was oppressed and hee was afflicted yet he opened not his mouth hee is brought as a lambe to the slaughter and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb so he openeth not his mouth He was taken from prison and from judgement and who shall declare his generation for he was cut off out of the land of
virtue as it is said Behold I create new heavens and a new earth and the former shall not be remembred Christian Shall men dye in that Land or shall they live for ever Iew They shall not die by the sword because war shall not be there neither shall there be a naturall death exept after many yeares when a man shall be full of daies but when he shall dye they shall not weep over him as it is written the voice of weeping and mourning shall no more bee heard in Ierusalem Also in that time they shall not say of an old man that hee hath accomplisht his daies untill hee come to the three hundreth or five hundreth yeare and above such as were in the first ages in the beginning of the world But these daies which now in the world are counted for old age shall then bee the daies of youth and men shall bee accounted then as growing children as it is written they shall be fruitfull in old age they shall be fat and flourishing in the contrary manner of old men wherefore it is written elsewhere a child of a hundred years old shall die that is if any man dy in the hundreth year which shall be because of his sin they shall say of him that a child is dead and he expounds it after this manner A child of an hundred yeares who shall sin shall be accused as if he should say the curse of God shall bee upon him Then they shal not build and another inhabit as now it is neither shall they plant and another eat but according to the daies of trees shall the daies of my people be that is in the elect because they onely shall have the longest lives and that not without a miracle but not other people whereupon Ionathan hath interpreted that place thus They shall live as the dayes of trees But our Rabbies say that a living tree doth endure five hundred years Some also say there shall be some change in the nature of corne in the time of the Redeemer that it shall as vines bee preserved in strength and there shal not be need every yeare to sow new corn but it shall be sown onely once as the vine is once planted and after the corne shall bee gathered in the stalks shall remaine flourishing to the next yeare Christian In what place of Scripture did your Rabbies find that Iew In Hosea they shall preserve their corne and it shall flourish as a vine Also in that time if they aske of the blessed God raine he shall give it them and hee will give every man herbes in his field according to his desire Moreover our Masters say that at that time when the Israelites shall do the will of God he wil also do their will so that if any one alone shall have need of raine he will give raine to him alone or if any one shall want raine for one herbe in his field or garden he will give raine to that herbe alone And this is that which is said aske raine of the Lord and hee will give thee plentifull raine for every herb in the field Christian Because you have fallen upon Zachary tell me how you understand those words which are written in it shall the whole earth be turned as into a plaine Iew I will tell you behold all the land about Ierusalem which now is mountainous as it is in the Psalmes shall then be plain like the plainnesse of a champion field and it shall be exalted and be higher than all the land although now it be higher than all the land of Israel by reason of the mountaines which are about it because of which its height cannot be seene But at that time when all the land round about it shall bee made plaine its height shall be seen more than all the Land Wherefore it is said in the prophecy of Isaiah the mountain of the Lord shall be established upon the top of the mountaines and shall be lifted above the hils and many fields which now are nigh Ierusalem shall then be within the wals of the City and that City being built shall never afterwards be destroied as it is written behold the daies come saith the Lord and the City of the Lord shall be built from the tower of Hananeel to the gate of the corner c. it shall not be destroied nor pluckt downe for ever It is said also in the Psalm if the Lord build not the house they labour in vaine who build it But this hee saith of the sanctuary and City of Ierusalem Behold from that day wherein the house of the Lord was wasted and the Israelites led into captivity and the City destroied Ierusalem was now againe rebuilt and now againe destroi'd because it was in the power of the Idumeans and in the power of the Ismaelites and every year war was raised for it they build it and these destroy it againe because it is not the will of the Lord that the Gentiles should keep it built and therefore they labour in vaine who build it and in vaine doe they rise in the morning who keepe it First the Idumeans did subdue Ierusalem afterwards when they were quiet the Ismalites came and made a great war with the christians and tooke the City out of their hands and there was a continuall war between them and that discord paines and labour to possesse the City shall endure untill the Redeemer and King Messias shall come to whom the Lord God shal deliver Ierusalem without all trouble Christian Shall the City and the Temple be then built as Ezechiel saw them in the spirit of Prophecy Iew Yes for he saith thus in the 25 yeare of our captivity in the beginning of the year in the tenth moneth in that day the Lord brought me to the land of Israel and set me upon an exceeding high mountaine upon which there was as it were the building of the City from the south because in the day of mercy God will pardon the iniquity of Israel and will remember their sin no more and the Temple shall be built in the mountaine and the City Ierusalem shall be next to it on the south there the Lord shews Ezekiel the building of the future Temple that the hope of the Israelites might not faile but they might know they should return into their own land and should dwell in it securely and the building of the Temple shall bee much greater then it was at the beginning though it shall not differ in forme and order Christian Ezekiel had this vision in the babylonish captivity before the second house was built therefore it cannot be understood of the building of a third Temple Againe I aske of you at what time of the year shall the Israelites goe into their owne land after your Messias shall come Iew I have told you already namely in the day of propitiation for then God shall pardon