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A00276 A dialogue betweene a vertuous gentleman and a popish priest [ ... ]pleasaunt and profitable, both for ministers and gentlemen, men and vvomen, old and yong, made by I.B. I. B., fl. 1581. 1581 (1581) STC 1039; ESTC S120239 70,214 160

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wel for of that minde haue I alwaies bene that it is no matter what we doe our selues nor how we liue for Christe by his death hath purchased pardon for al. Gen. Oh now I perceiue you are farre deceiued to thinke you maie liue at your pleasure and that Christe will be a baude to your sinne for Christe died not for vs to the intent that we should continue in sinne but that we * Rom. 6.4 should die vnto sinne and liue vnto righteousnesse● and let no man take such libertie by the death of Christ that he may liue as he list and yet goe for a good Christian for S. Paule saith * Gal 5.24 they that are Christes haue crucified the fleshe with the affections and lusts thereof and again * ● Tim. 2 9. all that will cal on the name of Christ mast depart from iniquitie Par. What are you there now I praie you let vs talke no more of that matter but let vs returne to our women againe which we had in talke but now me thought that communication did like me well I praie you by what tokens shall a man knowe a bad woman Gen. If she serue not the true God but false Gods of her owne inuention as did * 2. Chr. 5.16 Maacha whome her owne sonne Asa put from her authority and burnt the idole that she had made If she be as very a harlot as * Gen. 39.12 Putyphars wife which whould haue committed Whoredome with her seruaunt Ioseph if he had not beene the honester man Af she be as couetous as * Gen. 3.15 Rachell that was contented to giue another woman leaue to lie by her husband Iacob for a little Mandrago●as If she be such a one as Paul speaketh of that do wāder from * 1. Tim. 5.13 house to house idle and not idle onely but as a tatler and busibodie speaking thinges that are not comly If she be worldly minded wretchedlie giuen so drunken with the same that she set more by the carefulnes of the worlde then by Christ his Gospel as did * Luk. 10.4 Martha if she be as Popeholy as the péeuishe woman in the Popishe time that could not saie their Paternoster without a payre of beades If you find anie of these in a Woman praie for her that she maie amend her maners and haue grace to come out of the snare of the diuell of whom shee is holden captiue at his pleasure Par. I praie God amend them all and now you haue shewed me how I shal know the difference betweene a good woman and a bad I praie you let me heare what good councell you would giue vnto your women and maidens that might be a staie for them in their tender yeares Gen. I would wish them aboue al things first to seeke to serue God and leade their liues in his feare and by the example of Sara R●●uels daughter to fli●● vnto the Lorde in al their dis●●esses and to say with her oute of the 〈◊〉 of a good conscience * Tob. 3.16 thou knowest Lord that I had neuer desire vnto man but haue kept my soule cleane and from ●●●●●nely l●st I haue not kept company with such as passe their time in sporte neither haue ●●●iade my self partaker with their 〈◊〉 walke in light behauiou●●● husband haue I consented to take not for my pleasure but in thy feare and in any wise I would withe them to beware of gadding by the example of * Gen. 34.1 Dina the daughter of Lea which on a time would needs go abroade to see and to be seene and loste her virginitie before she came home let them beware of proud hear●● and wanton lookes by the daughters of Sion * Esai 3.16 which did walk with stretched out neckes coy lookes going tripping nicely and tinkling with their féet that these plagues fal not on them whiche the Lord promised the daughters of Sion that he would shaue their heades and discouer their filthinesse and take away the gorgeousnesse of their attire their Caules and the round tyres after the fashion of the Moone the sweete perfumes the bra●lets and the Wimples the bonnets the slops the headbandes and the Tablets the eare ringes and no●eiewels the costly apparel the vailes the crisping pinnes the glasses and the fine linnen the hoods and the launs and in steed of good smel giue them stinch and for their girdle a rent and for wel set hatre baldnesse and in steed of a stomacher a sackcloth and for their beautie sunburning Par. But what shal they haue for their Dublets doe you finde that mentioned in the Scriptures Gen. No I neuer did read of it and therfore I thinke there was no abhomination so great before Par. Why is it an abhomination for a Woman to weare a dublet thinke you Gen. The holy Ghost thought so when he gaue a commaundemente to the contrarie Par. I praie you what commandement is there for it Gen. This we may find writtten in Deutronomium that * Deut. 22.5 a Woman ought not to weare that which perteineth to a man nor a man that which perteineth to a woman for all that doe so are abhomination vnto the Lorde Par. Then by this saying it is no more lawfull for a woman to were a dublet then it is for a man to weare a Peticoate Gen. In deed as you saie they be both alike and both abhominable in the sight of God Par. I thinke our gentlewomen doe not know this that they doe now a daies so much vse it Gen. Whether they doe or no I knowe not but if they doe not it is through want of knowledge in the worde of God which is the cause of this and a great manie such faultes but if there be anie that doe know it and vse it I would wish them to leaue it if they set more by the fauour of God then they do by the pride of a dublet Par. Some there may bee that will reforme themselues if they haue committed this fault through ignoraunce but manie of them I thinke wil still continue as fine as a dogge in a dublet Gen. Well let them looke to this and all other such faults as they wil aunswere for it and because ignorance is the cause of manie of these faultes some there be that would frame themselues to better maners if they knew which way I would wish thē euerie morning before they attire them selues to set the bible before them as a glasse that they maie be sure to put on such cloths as they maie seeme comely in the sighte of God and there they shal see * 1. Pet. 3.3 the Apostle wil tel them that they must beware of embroidered haire or hanging on of Golde either putting on of gorgeous apparel and the hid man which is in the heart must bee without corruption of a meeke and quiet spirite which is before God a thing muche set by and after this maner
they thinke to dwel vppon the earth alone this Wo do I heare alwaies sounde in my eares and it causeth mee to stand in awe fearing least for suche an offence it might fal on my selfe and therfore M. Parson to tell you my minde plainlie and what I thinke of these matters I doe so abhorre such couetous men and suche miserable wringing as is now a daies to much put in practise that I cannot like of those that vse it Par. You must like of them as the world is now or else few wil like of you Gen. How many doth dislike with mee for disliking with sinne I make no reckoning for I secke not the praise of men but my whole studie is that I may knowe best which waye to set foorthe the glorie of God and discharge my duetie vnto him of whome I am placed in office and I am taught not to * Exod. 23.2 follow a multitude to doe euil I know the most parte goe the wrong waye and I had rather deale iustly by my selfe then deale wickedly with companie for he that will commit sinne for company may chaunce to goe the diuel for companie If Noah and his companie had been companions with the wicked when the World was ouerflowed with water for the sinnes of the people no doubt of it but Noah and his companie had bene drowned for companie If Lot and his housholde had offended for companie they had no doubt beene burnt with the other Sodomites for companie If Caleb and Iosua had murmured againste God with the rest of the people for comapanie they had surelie haue bene kept out of the Land of promise with the rest for companie but let this hee oure comforte as it was theirs that if there be but eight persons in a whole Worlde but one housholde in a great citie but two men amongest manie thousand that feare God yet when the Lord sendeth his punishments amongst the people for their sinne the righteous shal be sure to haue no hurte a * Psal 91.7 thousande shal fal on their left hande ten thousand on their right yet there shal no harme come nere them Therefore M. Parson for mine own parte it is so farre from mee to participate with their offences that I abhor the companie of such as liue vngodlie Par. Mee thinkes you are to presise being a gentleman it were inough for mee my fellows to lead such a life as you speak of and yet I would not be bounde to liue so singuler a life for any thing a man may be holy and to holy if he be and if wee shoulde make choise of no company but such as are so holy wee may chaunce to seeke a greate while and yet go alone at the last Gen. I for my parte had as leaue to bee without companye as to bee in companye of those that liue wickedlie for he that toucheth pitch * Eccle. 13.1 2. Thes 3.14 Ephe. 5.7 shal bee defiled therewith and such as are conuersaunt with the vngodlie may chance to be infected with their dangerous diseases and S. Paul willeth suche as feare God not to bee companions of the wicked nor to haue any fellowshippe with the workes of darknesse Par. If the case doe stand with you that you wil chuse rather to bee alone then in such companie as dothe not like you and you wil like of none but those that liue vertuously I thinke it stoode you vppon to take greate deliberation in making choise of a good wife since the companie of the wicked doe so ill like of you Gen. You may well suppose that to bee true for so was I sure to finde it and because that amongest so manie women there are few good and as Salomon saide that amongst * Eccle. 7.30 a thousand he had not found one you maie well thinke a good wife harde to be gotten Par. What are they so scarse as you make them Gen. I haue tolde you what Salomon said and he was a man of great wisedome Par. Although good women were not plentie in his time yet there is good reason why there shoulde bee more liuing in these daies then euer there were for there dyed not a good woman a great while Gen. Oh M. Parson you speake more then you can prooue for death doth take the good as well as the bad and it was prepared for the one as well as for the other but belike you doe not knowe a good woman that you are of that mind Par. I praie you Sir by what tokens shall I know a good woman Gen. If shee be one that feareth God if she be holie as was Hester if shee bee constant as was Iudeth if she be vertuous as was Rebecca if she be chaste as was Susanna if she be obedient as was Sara if she loue Christ and his worde more then al the vanities of the worlde as did Mary if you find this in a Woman deubt not of her goodnesse but praise God for her and wishe her manie fellowes Par. What muste shee haue all this in her before she be good What if shee haue but two or thrée of these vertues is not that ynough if she be holie and obedient sometimes maie she not be a little curst a little couetous and maie not shee plaie the good-fellow a little somtimes when her husband is out of the waie Gen. No she must be altogether vertuous or else it were as good she were altogeather wicked for if she wil serue God shee must serue him alone for he is a ielous God and wil not part stakes with anie he will haue al or none if there be but one sinne found in a woman wherby she doth dishonor god it is inough to condemne her although shee thinke her self fraught with manie vertues Par. What do you thinke so I woulde faine know how you can proue that Gen. I will prooue it by this place of Scripture which saith they * Math. 5.19 Iam. 2.10 that offende in one point are guiltie of the whole law Par. In deede you saie true such a place there is but yet me thinkes it is harde dealing that when a man or woman hath kept a great manie of the commaundementes a great while and shal goe to the diuel at last for the breach of one of them beleeue me if you wil if it be true I thinke there is not a woman in this country that shall be saued for I neuer hard of the woman nor yet man that hath kepte the lawe so preciselie but that they haue offended one waie or other and what shal they then doe if the case do so stand Gen. This maie bee our comfort that that which of our selues wee can not doe and that part of the lawe which we doe not fulfil Christ * 1. Ioh 2.2 hath done it for vs if we take hold on him by faith and trust in him as our onelie Mediator and Redeemer Par. This is wel saide nowe I like you
hand and one blood guiltines followeth another Oh that we knew such an estate to be dangerous that such sinnes wil be punished except repentaunce what shall it profite vs to haue ●eace vnder our prince yet liue as rebels vnto our god what good shal a fruitful coūtry bring to a faithles people What if wee ●ight liue long in this world aboūding in ●elth prosperity in the end● bee ouerta ●en in our sinne rewarded for our iniqui●y what happinesse is ther in mans estate although he might liue as a prince in this world and at last becom a firebrand in hel ●et thus shall it fare with such as feare not God and great plagues are imminent ouer he Palaces of the wicked and such as liue vngodly and it is through the great mercy of our God and not for deseruinges that our eys are not witnessed that this is true ●ut since it is the Lordes pleasure to hee as mercifull vnto vs as euer he was vnto his own children the people of Israel although our rebelliōs be nothing inferior to theirs and do with partience long suffering endure our wickednes although all the day long he call and no man doth hear and still stretch out his arme and no man regards it yet let vs once looke about our selues like wise children though long first yet at last be come obedient to so bountifull a father And because the very * Esai 1.6 heade is sicke and the whole heart is heauy and from the sole of the foote vnto the crowne of the head there is nothing sound but wounds blains putrifying sores let vs all in time seeke some remedy for so daungerous diseases that we grow not rotten in our sinnes and be past cure and that it fare not with vs as it did with the Iews that like as the Lord did call vnto * Zacha. 7.13 them and they woulde no heare so they cried vnto him and he would not heare now is it with vs as it was with them nowe doth the Lorde cry vnto vs by the preachers of his word and call alowd with the sound of his gospel God graunt we neuer see the time in which we may say for our disobedience that like as he did call and we woulde not heare so we shall cry ●ot be hard And that we may not be found guilty of so great sinnes and runne in dan●er of so many miseries let vs learne to be wise in time and not say with the vngrati●us seruant my master wil be long a comming and so fall to surfferting and drunken ●esse and in the ende receiue the wages of vnrighteousnes but let vs be penitent with ●he Publican that we may intreat the Lord ●o haue mercy vpon vs and that the wrath of his countenaunce may be far from vs Let sin be forsaken and mercy will be got●en let repentance be found and forgiuenes ●s at hande let amendment of life be a witnesse of our true repentance and heauen ●arth shal testifie that the Lord wil be mer●ifull vnto vs but if our sinns remaine stil ●f to haue pleasure in wickednesse be our greatest delighte if vertue bée not regarded but vice hath the highest roome if religion be onely in our lippes and the deuill possesse our hearts if we be wise to do euil and haue no knowledge to doe well if to liue as Bulles of Basan vpon the earth be all we séeke for and the heauenly Ierusa●em we nothing care for if to haue the muck of this wolrde we will become bondslaues to the deuil we shal be sure to serue a maste that doth pay his seruants eternal damnation for their wages which wil be receiued with weeping and gnashing of teeth And although this mischeife bee a working for the wicked and great plagues remaine for the vngodly who are as hard hearted as Pharao that neuer wil leaue to do euil before they be ouertaken in their sin yet let not the faithful feare but be alwayes glad * Phil. 44. and reioyce in the Lorde for euer For he will be their father * 2. Cor. 6.18 and they shall be his sonnes and daughters and hee will keepe them as the signet vpon his finger let them be contented to abide with patience a little while and he that wil come * Heb. 10.36 will not tarry long let them suffer a while for Christ and they shall reigne with him for euer let them bee accompted as the abiectes and offscouring of the people yet shall they one day be found the sonnes of God and heires of the kingdome of heauen let them water their Couche a while with weeping and the Lorde will once * Esa 15.6 Apoc. 7.17 wipe all teares from their eyes let them be cast amongest the pottes and the vilest places be thought to good for them yet shal they one day be trimmed as the spouse to méete the brydegrome and be Citizens of that new Hierusalem which shall not war old for euer let them bee as sheepe * Rom. 8.36 that are dayly ledde to the slaughter yet shal they at length be deliuered out of their enemies hands death shal haue no more power ouer them Let them not faint in the waye that haue begon to tread the path that leadeth to eternall life for their troubles will once haue an ende and their reward shall last for euer there is a day comming when al shall be well and they shall see Ierusalem in prosperity and peace vpon Israel Thus much gentle reader haue I thought sufficient for an enterance into the rest which I haue written through intreaty is put in print that the sinnes of our time maye bee knowne and therby the better auoyded And as it is the duety of euery man to seeke by all meanes possibe to bring so waightie a matter to passe so for mine owne parte although as vnable as the least yet as willing as the best haue done what I might though not as I would that vertue might be aduaunced and vice ouerthrowne and do wishe it to be read for the end it was written which was to set foorth the glory of God that our wickednes may be done away and amendment of life embraced but if there be any that would seeke for painted speech or rouling Rhethorike which is not here to bee found when they haue opened the booke I woulde wishe them to goe no further for if they seeke till they haue reade the whole they shall find in the ende that they haue but lost their labour but if they wold know the truth here they shall finde no lyes but many thinges that are too true and I wish it to be a booke in euery mans hand that al estates might learne somewhat and that the sounde of it might ring in the cares of all Popishe Priestes couetous Ministers and vnlearned Pastors that when they sée as in a glasse their sinnes laid before them their duetie shewed them
new man if he loue Christ and his Gospel so wel * Luk. 14.26 that he can be contented to loose his life for the same If you finde this in a man knowe him to be a Protestant as wel in deed as in name for this is required of him that wil be a professour of the gospel and bear the name of a Protestant Par. What are there no Protestaunts but such as haue al this in them then I think there be not manie Protestauntes amongest a great number of professors Gen. In deede I knowe Christes flocke is a litle flocke that it is an easier matter to bee called a Protestaunt then prooued a Protestant but yet some there are and that manie more then we knowe which do worship God in spirite and trueth and are appointed to be heires of the kingdome of heauen Of the which number M. Parson I long to finde you one and if you will once turn vnto Christ he wil be be merciful vnto you and there wil bee more ioie of so penitent a sinner then of * Luk. 15.7 ninety and nine iust persons If you did know the rewarde you should haue for following of Christe you would make haste to goe after him If you did knowe the ioies that God hath prepared for those that loue him were such as the * 1 Cor. 2.9 eye hath not seene the eare hath not hard nether the hart of man hath euer conceiued you woulde thirste after them as the Hart doth for the water brooks If you did knowe howe * Psal 84.1 amiable are the dwellinges of the Lorde of Hostes your soule woulde haue a desire and longing to enter into the courts of the Lorde yea your heart and your fleshe would reioice in the liuing God If you did know that in his presence is the * Psal 16.12 fulnes of ioy that at his right hand there are pleasures for euermore you wil chuse rather to be a * Psal 84.11 doore keeper in the house of youre God then to dwel in the tentes of the vngodlie If you did know the glorie they shal haue in his kingdome that suffer for his sake in this world you would set more by the * ●eb 11.16 rebuke of Christe then by al the treasures of Egipt Beware of that subtil serpent the Diuel which goeth aboute like a * ● Pet. 5.8 roaring Lion readie to deuour you it is his persuasions the makes you in loue with this world and if it lay in him he would saie vnto you as he did vnto Christ that he * Mat. 4.8 woulde giue you al the kingdomes in the worlde to fal downe worship him for riches and other vanities of the world being vnlawfully possessed are nothing but baites of that subtile Serpent to intrap such as be not warie of him Therefore as you loue the safetie of your self depart from that which is euil remember * Rom. 6.23 that euerlasting life is the gift of God and the reward of sinne is euerlasting damnation and know that one sweete loost from Christes cheekes is better then al the faire countenances of the world and an angrie countenaunce from his face is able to crush al their enimies in peeces Therfore auoid his displeasure beware of his wrath get into his fauor and continue in his fear and you shal stand though the earth fal and shal be sure of the victorie though al the world were set against you Par. For your good councel I most heartelie thank you with your gentle persuasions you haue greatlie moued me therefore I mean to take another order with my self which I trust shal like you wel enough Gen. I pray you M. Parson let me hear that order Par. Thus I doe determine to lay my plot because it is a feareful thing to fall into the handes of the liuing God and greate dangers are like to befal those that cōtinue in their sinne I wil take such a order that I wil not spende much but liue sparingly a while vntil I haue gotten a good peece of mony in my purse that may maintaine me during my life and then I wil departe from my liuings and repent for al matters halfe a dozen yeares hence Gen. But what if you should chauuce to dye M. Parson before these yeares come out Par. In deede that is the worst I neuer thought on that Gen. Oh in any wise haue care of that for death commeth manye times vnlooked for and you are not sure of your life one houre and if death should ouertake you in your sinnes you are lost for euer Therefore I wold wish you not to delay the time any longer but deale wisely for your selfe while you may for if you be once gone * Psal 50.22 no man may deliuer you nor make agreement vnto God for you Par. Truely Gentleman you say honestly your persuasions are verie strong and if I might be sure to obteine the fauor of God and inherite the kingdome of heauen by suche meanes as you haue shewed me and that there were no doubte of it I could be contented to yeeld vnto you but I must tel you plain my benefices are swéete and if I should forsake them all and go to the diuel at last it would grieue me Gen. To put you oute of doubte for that matter heare what Christe himselfe saith which is the dore whereby you must enter into heauen whosoeuer * Mar. 19.29 saith he forsaketh house or brethren father or mother wife or children goodes or landes for my names sake shal receiue an hundred folde in this world and in the world to come life euerlasting Par. What is ment by that hundred fold that if I put awaie my benefices I shall haue them againe and manie more then I care not how soone I depart with them Gen. No M. Par. you must not thinke so but this knowe that God is able to giue you a thousande times more as you maie see by the example of * Iob. 42.10 Iob but the meaning is this that you shal in this whorlde haue such peace of conscience which the vngodlie are without that you shal saie with Paule you are as * 2. Cor. 6.10 hauing nothing and yet possessing all things and in the world to come ioies vnspeakable in a life that shal last for euer Therefore M. Parson think no time so happie as that which you bestow in procuring of your self that which wil stick by you for euer Par. Oh this comfort is great and these wordes haue stroken me to the heart Gen. How doe you M. Par me thinkes your collour doth begin to change Par. Oh oh oh Gen. What are you not wel that you looke so ill Par. Oh sicke sicke Gen. I woulde we had some Ginger for you or a little Aquauitie Par. Oh I am sicke I am sicke Gen. Wil you ride to some towne and we will send your water to some phisition Par. Oh no