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A20661 A proufe of certeyne articles in religion, denied by M. Iuell sett furth in defence of the Catholyke beleef therein, by Thomas Dorman, Bachiler of Diuinitie. VVhereunto is added in the end, a conclusion, conteinyng .xij. causes, vvhereby the author acknovvlegeth hym self to haue byn stayd in hys olde Catholyke fayth that he vvas baptized in, vvysshyng the same to be made common to many for the lyke stay in these perilouse tymes. Dorman, Thomas, d. 1577? 1564 (1564) STC 7062; ESTC S110087 184,006 300

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your sermon printed they ar to be sene that all men maie vnderstand how handsomely my L. of Salesburie can plaie hi●k scornersparte and then after shape thereto such an answere as I trust shall to all reasonable men be sufficient Moreouer the priest by the masse booke is taught to saie accipite edite Take ye eate ye and habete vinculum charitatis c. that is Haue ye the band of charitie that ye maie be mete for the ho●e misteries And to vvhome shall vve thinke the priest speaketh these vvordes It vver a vaine thing for him in the open congregation to speake to him selfe and specially in the plurall numbre yet vver it a greate deale more vaine for him to speake the same vvordes to the bread and vvine and to saie to them Take ye eate ye or haue ye the band of charitie that ye may be me●e for the holie misteries Therefore it is euident that these vvordes should be spoken to the people I haue good hope M. Iuell bothe by these testimonies alleaged out of the Masse booke so far from the purpose and also by your chalenge wherein yowe promise being ouercome to yelde that yowe will at the length doe as honest soldiours pressed against their mindes to serue in an euell cause ar wont to doe that is when it commeth to the push either cast awaie their weapons and suffer them selues to be taken or keping them in their handes fight verie weaklie For suerlie M. Iuell if this be not your meaning beare with me if I tell yow as the truthe is and as I beleue it must nedes be a greate deale worse and such as declareth inuinciblie to the worlde your cankred stomack and maliciouse minde towardes your mother the catholike church For standing the case so as yow meane nothing lesse then that good which I conceiue of yow what true dealing is this of youres to proue that no Masse maie be saide without there be company to receiue with the priest to alleage these wordes Take eate as spoken by the priest to the people Whereas your owne conscience if yow haue any telleth yow I dare saie that they ar a parte of other wordes going before cutt by you from the rest to serue your scoffing spirit and that they ar not nor euer were any more taken for the priestes owne wordes then ar those that immediatlie followe This is my bodie And as yow would I nothing doute laughe at his simplicitie that hearing the priest say This is my bodie would take the consecrated host to be the priestes bodie because he repeteth the same wordes at the altar that Christ spake at his supper So perswade your self that other men cease not to lament from the bottom of their hartes to se yow not of simplicitie but of malice willfullie to do the like But I shall here whollie alleage the wordes as they ar in the canon of the Masse that yowe maie if it be possible be deliuered of that greate scruple that so troubleth your minde whether those wordes Take eate should be spoken by the priest to him self in false latin which yow thinck were to greate an ouersighte or to the bread and wine which yow thinke and I would yow neuer might thinck worse were a farre greater The wordes ar these Qui pridie quâm pateretu● c. who the daie before that he suffred toke bread in to his holie and venerable handes and lifting vp his eyes into heauen to the o god his father allmightie geuing to the thanckes blessed brake and gaue it to his disciples saieng Take eate this is my bodie By these wordes if yow doe not euery man I trust elles doth moste manifestlie perceiue that these ar not the priestes wordes and therefore neither spokē to him self neither yet to the bread or wine But because I doubte not but yow ar werie to heare so much of your owne follie therefore I will dwell no longer in the aggrauating of that which as in the eyes of all men is brimme ynough so would I to god that yow had neuer geuen occasion to me or to anie other once to haue mencioned it To your other obiection that yow make of these wordes habete vinculum charitatis haue yow the band of peace that yowe maie be mete for the holie mysteries I answere that if there be any such place in the masse booke as hauing sought therefore I finde none such that such wordes first forbidde not the priest to saie masse if none be disposed to communicate with him then that they do not necessarilie prouoke the people to the sacramentall receiuing but maie well be vnderstand of the spirituall communicating with the priest in those holie misteries by earnest meditacion of Christes death and passion the which the more effectually to doe they ar exhorted to be one with an other in loue and charitie And thus vnderstand we that other place where the priest after the Agnus praieth that that holie commixtion of Christes bodie and bloude maie be bothe to him and to all that receiue it healthe of bodie and soule For we saie that as many as being present at the masse doe hartely ioine with the priest in the swete remēbrance of Christes bitter death and passion doe all receiue with the priest Christes bodie and bloud they spirituallie and he corporallie And this call we a true communion But what if now in euery leafe of the masse booke M. Iuell you had foūde exhortacions to the people to cōmunicate Verely except yow had founde withall that vnlesse they would the priest should not all would not helpe yea it would hinder yow thus much that where as you and your mates haue borne the worlde in hand that the cleargie hath kepte the laitie from communicating now it woulde appeare by this that the priest loketh for them and their owne defaulte kepeth them awaie Well if the masse booke haue failed yow M. Iuell as it was neuer other like but that it would yow haue yet I dare saie other witnesses Yea verely yow vaūte to haue the helpe of the canons of the apostles of Clemens of Dionisius of Calixtus of Iustinus of Leo of Chrisostome of S. Gregorie yea of S. Paule and of Christ him selfe Which be suerly good witnesses and such as in lawe maie be called omni exception● maiores and for the better abeling of thē of whose credite might most be doubted your selfe haue saide so much as no man I trow can saie more For you call thē good growndes to builde apon So that now there remaineth no more but to consider how they proue your entent The which that I maie the better doe I shall alleage your owne wordes as they ar in your sermon touching this matter to be founde that so the reader maie be the more able to iudge whether your euidence be to the yssue or no. In the .xxxv. leafe of your saide sermon yow haue these wordes And I trust yovv shall clearlie see that for
conuey the faulte from youre selues to an other But the truthe is well knowen to be far otherwise bothe by him who for that that he was a principall doer therein lurcketh presentlie in Scotland and also by that other who so euer he wer that made the booke entituled the harborough for faithefull subiectes Who entending to laie all the burden vpon a straungiers backe hauing forgotten by misfortune the chiefe rule of his arte that a lier should be mindefull euen in the first leafe of his booke declareth him to haue bene an Englishemā when in begging as it were a pardon for him he vsethe thiese wordes considering the griefe vvhich like a good membre of that bodie vvhich then suf●red he felt and afterwarde he declareth that that bodie was England and no other Yow maie remembre it is not so long sence when to put men to deathe for religion was a thinge horrible yow saide and expresselie ageinst the worde of god and charitie of the ghospell Nowe the sworde being as yow thincke in your handes yowe teache in your lessons yow crie out in youre sermons and neuer left crieng till yow had brought it to passe that it was decreed by publike auctoritie that such as in religion beleue not as yow doe bothe may and ought to suffer deathe therefore And surelie if the Quene oure moste graciouse ladie would alter the present state of religion yow woulde not faile shortly to sing youre olde songe againe that for religion no man ought to be punished by deathe and I feare me assaie either with some such feditiouse booke as ageinst Quene Marie ye made or by some other practise of which youre parte lacketh no store to remoue her from all manner of gouernement both spirituall and temporall For if youre libertie in the lorde be such as ageinst youre prince that pleaseth yow not yow can saie nothing to much as the author of the harborough saithe he could not that wrote the blast ageinst the gouernement of women had he kept him selfe in the particuler parson of his souereigne lady Quene Mary who douteth but that yow would vse it And for the better proufe hereof I referre me to that booke of late made by your companions of the succession whereby euery man that wit hath may easely perceiue vpon such premisses what conclusion was to be looked for none other forsoothe then the speedy dispatch of her whose clemency being oure gratiouse and souereigne lady because it coulde be brought by no meanes to serue youre furiouse sprite you thought to worcke by other meanes and to prouide for the maintenaunce of youre kingdome youre selues But this power ar ye growen vnto whereof I maruell also that ye make not youre vauntes that ye can make kinges and depose them when ye ly●t This mutabilitie and inconstancie in youre owne doctrine in so shorte a space in youre communion first one while decreing that it be ministred in common and leauened bread by and by reuoking that and bringing it to vnleauened at one time cōmaunding that youre seruice be in all places vsed in the Englishe tongue not long after chaunging the same in some places in to the latine and yet that reiected once againe and the Englishe restored and all this within the space of little more thē a yeare This daie youre cōmunion table placed in the midd●st of the quier the nexte daie remoued in to the bodie of the churche at the thirde time placed in the chauncel againe after the manner of an altar but yet remoueable as there is anie communion to be had Then youre ministres face one while to be turned towardes the Southe an other while towardes the northe that the wethercocke on the toppe of the stieple hathe bene noted not to haue turned so oftē in the space of one quarter of a yeare as youre ministre hath bene caused benethe in the bottom of the churche in lesse then one monethe as though yow coulde not sufficientlie declare howe restles an euell heresie is excepte yow muste make youre communion table to ronne aboute the churche the ministre first after it and then rounde aboute it to expresse the same This inconstancie I saie and tottring in and oute first aboute the ordre of youre communiō and then in other thinges before noted causeth diuerse men and emongest the nombre my selfe to suspecte youre doctrine of newnesse because naturallie we see this hurlie burlie and shifting in and putting oute to chaūce in thinges at their first beginning and contrarie wise neuer in those that haue bene of long and settled continuance If such a communion as yow now haue deuised had euer bene before yow shoulde haue founde presidētes and formes thereof that shoulde haue directed yow so certeinelie that yow neuer could haue fallen in to this inconuenience of making and marring building and pulling downe But yow had no such forme and therefore I maruell not if it happened vnto yow as it hath THE fowerth cause or consideration that hath moued me hath bene this that besides youre owne misliking with youre owne doinges I finde which is a suer marcke wherebie to knowe the false and malignant churche that yow arre at dissensio● emongest youre selues one with an other which hath not neither begonne of late but euen as the poet fained of Cadmus men sprange vppe together with that vnhappie seede of your deuelishe doctrine What shoulde I heare trouble youre eares with the vnpleasant remembrance of that implacable dissension for which euen at this daie their ofspringe ar one with an other at deadlie foode of youre first parentes Luther and Zuinglius or of youre elder brothers Caluin and Oecolampadius What shoulde I remembre youre owne good agrement at home which youre last assemblie in youre conuocation hath made to all the realme so manifest and well knowen And yet is this dissension of youres not in owtewarde ceremonies or triffling matters as yo we woulde haue men to beleue or in the diuersitie of apparell as wherewith for lacke of other stuffe to the greate defacing of youre parte yowe arre constreined to charge vs but in the highest misteries and greatest pointes of oure religion For howe manie opinions ar there emongest yow cōcerning the iustificatiō of a Christian man howe manie of the valew of good worckes howe manie aboute baptesme howe agree yow with youre late head that calleth god the author of their damnation that arre damned excepte yowe call him so toe how can yow be saide to agree who call that laufull which the chiefe of youre cōpanie calleth blasphemie howe agree yow with youre selues in that highe misterie of the sacrament of Christes bodie and blood of whome some of yow and the better some to if learning and honestie maie take anie place defende with Luther Christes reall presence in the sacrament other some with Zuinglius denie the same My leisor serueth me not M. Iuell or if it did my purpose is not here which a iust volume woulde scarse receiue