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A06476 The Christian against the Iesuite Wherein the secrete or namelesse writer of a pernitious booke, intituled A discouerie of I. Nicols minister &c. priuily printed, couertly cast abrod, and secretely solde, is not only iustly reprooued: but also a booke, dedicated to the Queenes Maiestie, called A persuasion from papistrie, therein derided and falsified, is defended by Thomas Lupton the authour thereof. Reade with aduisement, and iudge vprightly: and be affectioned only to truth. Seene and allowed. Lupton, Thomas. 1582 (1582) STC 16946; ESTC S107762 169,674 220

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A persuasion frō Papistrie there you altered not my words but wrote thē as I wrote them because you thought y t persuasion beeing mine owne woorde woulde disgrace or discredite mee But now you perceiuing that if you should write mine owne woordes as they bee they woulde not then serue your turne Wherefore you defaced and displaced my woordes and foysted in your owne to my reproche and to your owne credite as you thought But as coggers and foysters of false Dyse thriue but sorily by their trade so you by the chopping and chaunging of my words and foysting in your owne will gaine but little And as they for their cogging and foysting when it is knowne are so dispised that the honest doe shunne them so you when this your subtill shifting is spied for all you are a Iesuite will procure your owne shame Your Reader hauing any good consideration will not thinke but that my woordes hang better togeather then you wrote them But that your dishonest dealing may the better appeare and that the indifferent and wise Reader may iudge whether ' I wrote so fondly as you haue affirmed I will heere both write my very woordes that you so shamefully altered and also the occasion and the circumstance thereof For in this point I went about not only to prooue her 〈◊〉 greate mercie and Ienitie to the obstinate Papistes her disobedient subiects But also though some of the stubborne sort did so little consider her power that they woulde say that shee had no lawe to punishe or execute them for the same that shee had as great power and authoritie to make lawes and to punish them as Queene Mary had But all this you left out besides the marring of my sentences and arguments that the reader might thinke that it had neither good method nor matter And now heere followeth my wordes If he that counterfeateth the Queenes Maiesties seale for some priuate profite breaking thereby but one part of her lawes is a Traytour and is therefore put to death Then are not you that are obstinate and disobedient Papistes Traytours And deserue death that hate your prince without any cause and that withstande and disobey all her godly lawes and proceedings In the louing and obeying of whome and the keeping and obseruing of whose lawes and orders her Graces safetie the preseruation of her person the conseruation of the common wealth and the prosperous state of this Realme doeth chieflye depende If heereby you will not willingly see what you are I feare against your willes you will feele hereafter what you are Open your eyes therefore and see what a mercifull Queene you haue that euer since shee beganne to raigne hath rather mercifully without lawe sought to winne you then cruelly by lawe to enforce or wounde you Thinke not because shee suffereth you that therefore shee cannot punishe nor execute you whiche if some of you sticke not to say openly many of you I beleeue thinke the same priuilie Thinke not because shee hathe made no lawe for you that therefore shee can make no lawe for you for the Queenes maiestie hath as great power to punish the Idolatrous Papistes in her Realme as king Iosia had to burne the Priestes of Baall in his Realme King Asa and his people made a couenant and swore not only to seeke the Lorde to cleaue vnto him and to hearken vn-his voyce but also that whosoeuer did not so shoulde bee slaine whether hee were small or great man or woman which couenant hee perfourmed and brake not And is not our Princesse queene of England aswel as Asa was king of Iuda and hath not shee as great power in her kingdome as he had in his And if GOD was well pleased with king Asa for making and perfourming of that couenant as hee was in deede would hee then bee angrie thinke you with Queene Elizabeth if she made the like and perfourmed it I thinke not But our mercifull Queene though shee hath set foorth the true 〈◊〉 of God as speedily as earnestly and as zealously as eyther king Asa or any other rular to bee followed and obserued throughout her whole realme hath not made any such couenant or law to slea or kill them that do not follow and obey the same But consider this well if the Pope not appointed by Gods lawe to raigne and rule as hee hath doone may murther and kill as many of you thinke hee may the professours and followers of Gods worde beeing not his subiectes for disobeyiug his lawe deuised and inuented by man on earth and procured by the Diuell Then may not wee thinke that our Queene appointed by God and allowed by his worde to raigne ouer vs may lawfully kill and put to death the Idolatrous Papists her subiects for wilfully disobeying and withstanding the law of God that came from heauen beeing long since taught by the Prophetes by Iesus Christe the sonne of God and by his Apostles mooued and procured thereto by God the holy Ghoste Therefore I beseeche you weigh the milde nature of our gracious Queene the mother of mercie that doth not vse the iustice shee may and marke your holy father the Pope the captaine of crueltie that vseth the iniusticie he ought not I pray you is not our Elizabeth Queene of Englande as well as Queene Mary was Whatpower what iurisdiction what authoritie what superioritie what excellencie and what els had Queene Mary that this our Queene Elizabeth hath not Queene Mary was king Henrie the eights daughter so is our Queene Elizabeth Queene Mary was King Edwardes sister so is Queene Elizabeth Queene Mary succeeded her brother King Edwarde so did Queene Elizabeth succeede her sister Queene Mary Queene Mary was lawefull Queene of Englande Queene Elizabeth is as lawfull Queene of Englande I will not say more Queene Mary put downe Gods worde planted by her brother and set vp Papistrie and Idolatrie and obeied the Pope Queene Elizabeth put downe papistrie and Idolatrie planted by her sister and obeyed GOD Queene Mary vsed her harmelesle and obedient subiects cruelly and put them to death that professed gods worde Queene Elizabeth vseth her wicked and disobedient subiects mercifully and suffereth them to liue that professe and stifly defende papistrie and idolatrie the doctrine of the Diuell These comparisons duly considered your Queene Mary did not muche excell our Queene Elizabeth vnles in crueltie and burning her harmelesse subiects Nowe if Queene Mary might put to death her humble and harmelesse subiects for professing of Gods word Then I cannot see but that our Queene Elizabeth may as well execute her stubborne and disobedient subiects whiche shee as yet neuer did that withstande Gods woorde and will needes followe papistrie and idolatrie And further if Queene Mary had a lawe to burne the seruantes of God that were obedient to her concerning their worldly dutie and neuer ment her harme Then why may not our Queene Elizabeth make a Lawe to execute the popes seruantes that are bounde to be her
in his doings least he clime as an angell fall as a Diuell fol. 43. p. 2 Persecutions had need begin before they be in the middest fol. 50 pag. 1 Pope 〈◊〉 Agnus Dei can pul mē out of the water and saue men frō drowning fol. 60. pag. 1 Papists extreame enemies to England because the Queenes Maiestie was king Henries daughter king Edwards sister fol. 71. pa. 2 Peter paid tribute money therefore the pope hath authoritie ouer the whole church of God fol. 72. pa. 1 Peter Crabs arguments for prouing the popes authoritie fol. 72 pag. 1 Persuasion from papistrie disdainfully called a weightie worke fol. 50. pag. 1 Persuasion from papistrie disgraced because of the title fol. 53. pag. 1 Priests barne burned because he had forgot his owne latine fol. 55. p. 1 Painting no discredite to the Gospel or the acts of the Apostles writtē by S. Luke fol. 64. pag. 2 Papists cry vpon Q. Mary and protestants cry vpon Q. Elizabeth fo 98. pag. 1 Pope may dispence against the lawe of God the lawe of nature against Saint Paule the new testament all the commandments fo 79. p. 〈◊〉 Pope an other God on the earth fol. 80. pag. 1 Popish Bishop did run mad fo 9. p. 〈◊〉 Paradise better for the Pope to haue claimed power ouer than Purgatorie fol. 35. pag. 2 Pope proudest of all other though he be called the seruant of Gods seruants fol. 81. pag. 1. 2 Pope called the Lion of the tribe of Iuda 81. pag. 2 Pope is the light that is come into the world fol. 81. pag. 2 Popes Antechrists for that they take vpon them that which is only due vnto God fol. 82. pag. 2 Pope may make and marre lawes at his pleasure fol. 14. pag. 1 Pope hath an heauenly iudgement fo 13. pag. 2 Pope is doctor of both lawes by authority not by knowledge fo 13. p. 2 Popes cannot erre or lye though they say S. Denise had one body in germanie another in France fo 14. pag. 2 Preachers of gods word haue a great aduantage of papists fol. 18 pa. 1 Popes pond full of childrens might be skulles fol. 23. pag. 1 Popes purse esteemed more of rouers then pouertie fol. 29. pag. 1 Popes Iesuites can make impossible causes fol. 32 pag. 1 Popes pride is published in magnifiyng his maiestie fol. 32. pag. 2 Preachers may heare y t popes 〈◊〉 as well as the pope may heare the preacher vnlesse y t popes be alwaies hearse or y t preachers deafe fo 32. p. 2 Pope doth not vse to thank any that speaketh before him fol. 32. pag. 2 Popes preachers are proued y t popes masters fol. 32. pag. 2 Poore preacher may not dine with 〈◊〉 proud pope fol. 33. pag. 1 Priesthood sufficiet to excuse whoredume in Rome fol. 33. pag. 2 Pope 〈◊〉 the sift gaue licence to one to marry his owne sister fol. 33. pag. 2 Popes pardons delicate sawces to procure 〈◊〉 fol 34. pag. 1 Pope had more wit than Solomon fol. 49. pag. 2 Pope can doe more then God can do fol. 83. pag. 1 Popes lawe must needs be holy that alloweth Priestes to haue 〈◊〉 and forbideth them to haue wiues fol. 85. pag. 1 Popes fast is quite cōtrary to Christes fast fol. 87. pag. 1 Pope 〈◊〉 bestowe the Empire on whom he list fol. 92. pag. 1 Pope doth what him 〈◊〉 though it be vnlawfull and is more than a God fol. 92. pag 1 Priests are as much aboue a king as a king is aboue a beast fol. 92 pa. 2 Poore pope that had no Chamber 〈◊〉 to keepe out dogges fol 93. pag. 1 Popes foote more meete to 〈◊〉 bitten of dogges than to be kissed of men fol. 93 pag. 1 Parson of 〈◊〉 in Kent dyed 〈◊〉 and strangely fol. 94. pag. 1 Q QUeenes Maiestie sendeth none to Rome to sturre sedicion against the pope as he sendeth by ther to seeke the destruction of her Grace fol. 24. pag. 1. Queene Elizabethes power as great as was the power of Queene Mary fol. 69. pag. 2. fol. 70. pa. 1. 2 R REmedie for a mischiefs fol. 17. pag. 2 Returning of people is not the way to try truth fol 24. pag. 2 Religion of the Pope dependeth 〈◊〉 priestes fol. 27. pag. 2 Romish honestie will proue Englishe treason fol. 29. pag. 1 Religues of Saints are to bee worshipped if 〈◊〉 be not for sworn fol. 6. pag. 1 Rockwoods desperate death that 〈◊〉 he was damned fol. 10. pag. 2 Robbing of Churches not so euill as to reason of the Popes doings fol. 13. pag. 2 Reason must be allowed for the honoring of the Pope fol. 36. pag. 1 Reason must bee 〈◊〉 to make Christ of a Cake fol 36. pag. 1 Reason why the pope doth ride on men and not on a horse fol. 36. pag. 2 Reasons why the Pope ought not to ride on men fol. 37. pag. 1 Romish lotdrawers may happen on a Satanist in steede of a Saint fol. 38. pag. 2 Romans ashamed in whipping themselues for that they couer their faces because they would not be knowen fol. 47. pag. 2 Romanes are fooles or their doctrine is false fol. 48. pag. 2 Ryming cause of Musicke fol. 58. pag. 1 Reason that they that write eloquently shoulde haue the eloquence fol. 68. pag. 1 Religion of the Gospell must seeme to bee false because it conuerteth no priestes 27. pag. 2 S SOddan and dolefull death of a persecuting Papist fol. 9. 1 Sheepes skinne counted better than a mans hand fol. 11. pag 2 Saint Denise had two bodies at once by the Popes iudgement fol. 14. pag. 1 Similitude very necessarie fol. 18. pag. 2 Sore punishment to make women 〈◊〉 kissing of Priestes fol. 22. pag. 2 Swerers to maintaine falshood will not sticke to lye when they sweare not at all fol. 26 pag. 1 Successe of Iesuites fol. 4. pag. 1 Soules in Purgatorie are relieued by prayers if Iesuites may be trusted by their othe fol. 5. pag. 2 Saints are to be honored and called vpon they pray for vs if we may beleeue Iesuites by their othe fol. 6. pag. 1 Saint Peter no good proctor for the Pope fol. 7. pag. 2 Sodeine change fol. 12. pag. 2 Sertus the Pope gaue license to a Cardinall and all his family to cōmit most detestable sinne fol. 21. pag. 2 Stately seruant that will not once giue his master thankes fol. 32. pag. 2 Saint Augustines texte brought for prouing of Purgatory that speaketh not of it fol. 34 pag. 2 Simple Reader that will beleeue S. Augustine if hee bee contrary to Christe fol. 35 pag. 1 Saint Augustine brought for proouing of Purgatorie but he himselfe saith he knoweth no such place fol. 35. pag. 1 Saints are protectours as the Pope is Christes Uicar fol. 39. pag. 1 Stewes of the pope defended fol. 40. pag 1 Sinne cannot bee suffered without fault by Gods lawe fol. 41. pag. 2 Saint Paul did forget the Romans whipping deuotion in his Epistle to the
if you bee not true and louing subiects to our Queene who vnder God is the chiefe staffe and stay of the peaceable and prosperous state of England then you cannot bee friendes but enemies to England and thus I trowe I haue proued you Englishe enemies These are my very wordes concerning the same which you haue rackt and counterfeated contrary to my writing whereby the indifferent reader may easily iudge whether your wordes are my wordes in effect and whether your writing conclude as mine doth or not In deede as you wrote it it is a very simple and childish argument much like Peter Crabs arguments for prouing of the Popes power True meaning woulde that you shoulde write my argumentes as they be and then to confute them if you can but because you cannot you curtall and peece them at your pleasure otherwise you confute them not And when you haue brought them into such a pickle thē you commit them to your Reader to scanne who thinking you to deale plainely and truely doth therefore despise mee yea and perhaps contemne my booke before hee reade it or heare it But therefore I haue written mine owne wordes as they bee whereby the Reader may perceiue that though you are a Iesuite in name yet you are more like a Iudas in your dealing It is an easie kinde of confuting to write nothing but to 〈◊〉 a mans words If I should haue dealt so with you you might iustly haue derided me and called me a liar without learning as I may call you a learned falsifier a shamelesse Iesuite The 42. part AFter this you falsifie my wordes againe and coyne my writing with your owne counterfeite stamp much like one that when he hath once stolne careth not then howe often he playeth the theefe Surelie if you ment honestly you woulde write my woordes as they bee and confute them after if you can as I haue done yours It appeareth you are verie shamelesse and either regarde not your credite or els you thinke whatsoeuer a Iesuit doth bee ought not to bee blamed nor that any thing can worke his discredite Doe you thinke that your Readers are so childish and so simple to thinke that your rehearsing of my wordes falsely and curtalling them as it pleaseth you without any other argument or proofe is a sufficient confuting of them I thinke not I neuer heard of any that vsed this kinde of confuting but you and because you are the first inuenter thereof I beleeue you are the last that will vse the same If to write nothing but only to repeat falsely and vntruely mens wordes as you doe and haue done bee a sufficient confuting then we neede no great learning to the confuting of any And now let vs heare your cunning confutation with nothing but with mine owne wrested wordes and thus they are as followeth Againe the 〈◊〉 crie vpon their Queene Marie and wee crie vpon our Queene Elizabeth And is not Queene Elizabeth I pray you as well a kings daughter as Queene Mary As well a kings sister as Queene Mary as lawfull Queene of Englande I will not say more as Queene Mary Why then howe can Papistes be otherwise but English enemies and extreeme enemies to Englande These and the like arguments in sense though not altogeather in the same wordes hee dilateth according to his kinde of eloquence throughout all the first part of his booke though he make no partes at all Where as you say it is my eloquence I vtterly refuse it it is your eloquence and none of mine Seeing the words are yours and not mine as you haue confest then the eloquence shall bee yours and not mine You haue written a great sort of fine words and y t elo quētly in this your discouerie and were it reason that I shoulde haue the eloquence of them all from you You are a very kinde and liberall man that can be content to take suche paine in writing then to let me haue all the eloquence that is due to y e same You haue hackt rackt 〈◊〉 and changed my wordes as you list haue vneloquēted them or taken the eloquence frō them that they had and now you discommend me for my eloquence You are like vnto him that spightfully cut a mans tongue out of his head and then dispraisd him because he could not speake Seeing you woulde ueedes dispraise my eloquence it had been reason that you should haue recited mine owne words as I wrote them And then you might Iawfully haue discommended them for lacke of eloquence Therefore if the wordes lacke eloquence then you lacke eloquence as it seemeth because you wrote them not eloquently considering they are your wordes and not mine For you haue left out a great sort of mine and foysted in out of all order many of your owne And though I a Christian cannot bee so eloquent as you that are a Iesuite I must bee content with S. Paule who though he were not very eloquent by S. Hieroms saying yet the most eloquent Philosopher that euer was did neuer so much as hee of whom S. Hierom writeth thus Paulus qui soelecismos facit in loquēdo Christi crucem portat c. Paule that is not able to vtter his minde in congrue speech beareth the crosse of Christ and taketh all men prisoners as if it were in triumph from the Ocean vnto the red Sea he subdued the whole world S. Paul himselfe saith though I be rude in speking I am not so in knowledge here thogh Saint Paule lackt eloqence yet hee lackt not the fauour of God Therfore I had rather lacke eloquence with S. Paul one of Christs Apostles then to be eloquent with you thogh you are one of the Popes Iesuites In your said wordes which you haue so falsified you count them my argumentes in sense though not altogether in wordes but I maruel who gaue you commission to alter my wordes and to put in other wordes for them and to giue my wordes the sense of your forged wordes If I shoulde leaue out your wordes and put in steede thereof what I thinke good of mine owne and to displace your words at my pleasure as you haue done mine then to say that it is the same in sense though not altogether in the same words you might well say then that I 〈◊〉 not done according to the profession 〈◊〉 a Christian though therein you haue doone according to the profession of a Iesuite Though you thinke the Pope hath authority to alter the scriptures and to giue them their sense as hee thinketh good yet I hope that you haue no authoritie to alter and change my wordes and to giue them their sense But belike as you thinke the Pope may alter the Scriptures as hee lyste and giue them what sense it pleaseth him so you beeing his Iesuite may likewise alter my wordes and giue them what sense you thinke good Before whē you dealt with the title of my booke which is
louing subiectes which are disobedient vnto her and that seeke procure desire and wishe her death and distruction Therefore be thankefull to God that hath giuen you and vs such a mercifull prince to raigne ouer vs and loue and obey her that giueth you for iustice mercie and for extremitie lenitie And nowe as her grace doth refraine from that shee may doe so prouoke not her 〈◊〉 to that shee can doe And as I sayde thinke not that her grace can not vse the swoord against you because shee hath not vsed it for if you thinke so you do not onely deceaue your selues but also do much abuse her Maiestie in that you seeme thereby to make her a Prince without powre whereby you are vnwoorthie of the great mercie shee sheweth vnto you What seruant is so foolishe to thinke muche more to say that because his master doeth not beate him for his fault therefore he can not beate him Because the mercifull father doth not beate his sonne for his offence that maketh not that he can not beate him for the same Shall her clemencie and mercie make you thinke in her disabilitie Therefore if any of you thinke so as I beleeue some of you haue said so you are not worthie of such a merciful mistres that vseth you so Thus farre haue I written to this ende in my said booke whereby it appeareth most manifestly that my drift was altogether to she we forth her Maiesties great lenitie and mercie And that shee hath as great powre and authoritie as Q. Marie had to make lawes and to vse the swoorde with seueritie iustice as well as shee as appeareth by the whole circumstaunce of the matter both before and after which you of purpose did not onely leaue out but also did so choppe and chaunge my wordes to discredite me withall that they had neyther good sentence nor sence And this is the verye cause and grounde why I wrote the saide wordes that you 〈◊〉 vnhonestly altered And though you mislike my eloquence yet I hope the indifferent reader will not thinke y t these my argumēts are so fonde and sencelesse and so disorderly couched as you would haue made them beleeue by your wrested and altered words If they marke but your woordes that you wrote in steade of mine and conferre my comparison betweene Queene Marie and her Maiestie with your wordes they may soone see your malicious meaning For where you haue written The papistes crye vpon their Queene Marie and wee crye vpon our Queene Elizabeth I haue no such wordes at all And morouer within sixe of your lines after you haue fathered these wordes vpon me Why then howe can papistes be otherwise but English enemies and extreeme enemies to Englande If I haue any such sentence or woordes I will yeelde vnto you and bee one of the popes Iesuites which to be I woulde be loth You might haue thought me to be a very dolt if I should go about to proue papists to be english enemies because the Queenes maiestie was a kings daughter and a kings sister You your selfe are so cunning in finding out of such mysticall causes that I am not able to compare with you therein for first you made that M. Nicols going from Wales to England and from thence to Flaunders and so to Rome from Rome to the pulpit in the Towre of London was the cause that he was borne at Combridge in Wales Then after you would seeme to proue that I was a musition because I was a rimer and nowe thirdely because you woulde haue me to be a citer of your causes you woulde make your reader beleeue that I prooue that papistes must needes bee extreeme enemies to england because the Queenes Maiestie was king Henries daughter and king Edwards sister But truely you are tried before to bee so cunning and experte in finding out of the causes of thinges that this deepe profound cause y e is alledged for the prouing of papists to be extreeme enemies to england is of your own inuention for they know that my wit is to weake and my learning to light to find out such a mysticall cause It had been enough for Peter 〈◊〉 to haue 〈◊〉 this argument the prouer of the popes powre that saide because Peter paide the tribute money for Christ himself therfore the pope hath authoritie ouer the whole Church of God And because Christ saide to Peter followe thou me and againe launche forth in the deepe and because Peter drew his sword and cut off Malcas eare therefore the pope hath authoritie of the whole Churche of God This had been a fitter argument for him then for mee Also this argument had been more meet for pope Innocent than for me which woulde proue that the Moone being inferiour to the Sunne therefore the Emperour was inferior to the Pope And that the Emperoute is a thousande folde inferior to him because God hath made two lights in heauen Which is the Sunne and the Moone These such like arguments are more meete for Popes then Protestants And now for that you Iesuites are sworn to the pope Therefore this argument that papists are English enemies and extreeme enemies to Englande because Queene Elizabeth is as well a kings daughter and a kings sister as Q. Marie is a more 〈◊〉 argument for a Iesuite then for a 〈◊〉 If the indifferent reader consider mine own words before written he can spie no such thing as you charge mee withal But may 〈◊〉 perceiue that I wrote the same only to proue that y t Queenes maiestie hath as great powre to vse y e sword and to make laws against her obstinate and disobedient subiects as Queene Mary had And that it is as lawfull for her grace to punish and execute her obstinate disobedient subiects as for Queene Marie to punish and execute her louing and harmelesse subiects the professors of the Gospel that obey her with due obedience Therefore it is no great matter for you to proue that I am neither eloquent nor learned if you may chop change my words foist in your own at your plesure as you haue done Tullie was an eloquent writer yet if I shoulde chop and change his works writings putting in leauing out what I list in the same I could make him seeme quickly to haue but small eloquence Plato and Aristotle were learned Philosophers yet I coulde make them seeme vnlearned if I shoulde vse their bookes as I thought good Salamon was the wisest mā that euer was except Christ whose wordes if I shoulde backe and choppe thrust in and pull out what I list as you haue done I coulde make him see me to bee no very wise writer And as it is no great matter for you to say and prooue that a man can not goe when before you haue cut off his legges So it is a verye easie thing for you to make your reader 〈◊〉 that I haue neyther eloquence learning nor wit when you