inferior to the Dukes P. There are some that presume to say that heretofore Counts were greater then Dukes G. Gariban a diligent Spanish Historiographer following the opinion of Vasco affirms that Counts were greater then Dukes and endeavours to prove it from that which is found in the Councils held at Toledo where some that subscribed them styled themselves Comites Proceres and Comites Duces And the reason whereupon they ground that assertion is because all those that have many titles set the greatest in the first place Which nevertheless is not alwayes true for the Cardinals of the Church of Rome when they sign any thing write Deacon Cardinal Priest Cardinal or Bishop Cardinal not to perswade us that the dignity of Deacon Priest or Bishop is above that of Cardinal but to inform us that they are not barely Deacons or Priests but Deacon Cardinals that is the most eminent Princes of the Church And so it was with the Lords that subscribed those Councils they styled themselves Counts and for a distinction from others they added Duke as the more eminent P. You will confess that the sons and brethren of Kings and the greatest Officers of the Imperial and Royal Houses have anciently contented themselves with the title of Count and if the Ducal dignity had been greater they would without question have desired sought for and obtained it G. The titles which Kings have formerly given to their children as also those of Count of the Palace Comes Stabuli or Constable and others which satisfied the principal Officers of the Imperial Court do in no wise derogate from the quality of Duke For at last those Princes better bethought themselves and acknowledging that the name of Duke was alwayes a higher quality then that of Count they desired to be honoured with the same I know very well that the Counties of Castille Portugal Flanders Tyrol Tolouse Provence and Wirtemberg were very illustrious but I know also that the Countreys of Burgundy Bavaria and Lorraine did anciently bear sometimes the title of Kingdom sometimes of Dukedom and that the latter imported no less authority then the other The Princes of Poland Hungary and Bohemia who are at this time great Kings did for many ages bear no more then the quality of Duke Nay some Provinces in Spain were governed by Dukes a thousand years before the birth of Christ and when that Countrey was assaulted by the Carthaginians and afterwards by the Romans it was vigorously defended by the same Dukes who were Soverain and independent From whence you may judge that the title of Duke was almost equal to that of King before ever there were any Counts and so conclude that albeit in certain Countreys and times the title of Duke hath been somewhat abased yet it was never inferior to that of Count but alwayes greater P. The Counts Palatine and the Marquisses of Brandenburg are nevertheless as much or more then the greatest Dukes in Germany G. I agree with you but that derogates nothing from the title of Duke in general forasmuch as those Princes are not barely Counts but Counts Palatine Margraves and Electors and as such placed amongst the first Princes of the Empire P. I am satisfied and having seen that a Duke is and alwayes was greater then a Count I beseech you declare unto me those of the Empire But before we go any further tell me whether you think that true which some Writers affirm that a Duke should have four Counts under him G. I have just now demonstrated unto you that a Count was alwayes less then a Duke But I esteem it a mere dream and a folly below a discoursing soul to resolve that an Emperor should have under him four Kingdoms a King four Dutchies a Duke four Counties a Count four Baronies a Baron four Castellanies and a Castellan four Fiefs Those maxims of Quaternions should be expelled out of your thoughts as ridiculous Otherwise all they that have four Kingdoms would be Emperors and the Emperor losing one of those four which he had would cease to be Emperor Besides all Kingdoms are not equal and it would require a great many such Kingdoms as Valencia Murcia Grenada Algarvia Majorca Minorca Ivica and Yuetot to make one great King And on the other side if any one could have three Kingdoms equal to that of France in richness of soil abundance of People and number of Nobility he might equalize the greatest Emperors and the Count of Champagne to whom seven other Counts did homage would almost double the proportion of a Duke P. Having seen in your former discourse the force of the Latin word Comes and the Dutch Grave together with all its compounds and other things which I desired to know concerning the Counts in general you will oblige me now to come in particular to the Counts of the Empire and tell me what was their original what their power is at present and what their dignity G. Stephanus Paschalis a famous searcher of Antiquity saith there were as many nay more Counts then Cities in Gaule when the French made themselves masters of it and that the Conquerors desiring to use their new Kingdom favourably and give a subdued People no cause of complaint kept up all the offices and commands which the Romans had introduced amongst them The Laws of Charlemagne and of his son Lewis the Debonaire are full of the order which the Counts were to observe in the administration of justice From whence you may gather that the Counts of those times were not raised to such a height of Dignity as they are now P. If the Counts were but Judges who usually are such no longer then their Prince pleaseth how came it to pass that they made themselves masters of the lands which were under their Jurisdiction G. Though the Emperors had power to deprive the Counts of their Offices yet for the most part they let them enjoy them during their lives and if they had any sons capable to succeed them they were preferred before any other And that they might be the better enabled to attend upon the administration of Justice and defend the People when need should require the Emperors granted them Fiefs within the Territory of their Jurisdiction which Fiefs gave them opportunity to make themselves Masters of all the rest and to transmit the same unto their heirs P. Is it long since the Counts made their Counties hereditary G. It is hard to say under what Emperor that remarkable change hapned in the Empire but it is probable that it was under the Descendants of Charlemagne in the time when Charles the Bald and his son Lewis the Stammerer made their residence in France and were at variance with the sons of Lewis Germanicus their kinsmen who said the Imperial dignity belonged to them P. By what you have hitherto said I can sufficiently comprehend what was the power of the ancient Counts Do me the kindness to tell me what that is they have at present G.
at Lubeck to take their measures and resolve their affairs there but now that Confederation is of little use to the advancement of Trade since every City doth their own business apart The end of the Eighth Dialogue Dialogue IX Of the Vniversities the Justice and the Diets of the Empire P. LEarning being one of the principal ornaments of man and one of the pillars of the Commonwealth I beseech you tell me whether it be esteemed in Germany as it was heretofore in Greece and Italy G. There were never so many learned men in the world as at this time and there is never a Countrey in Europe where there are more nor more famous Universities then we have in Germany All Princes have founded some and strive who should maintain them the best because they know them to be the Universal remedies against an infinite number of evils which ignorance and idleness bring into the World They are not so ancient in this Countrey as in England France and Italy but they are more magnificent better ordered and fitted with Doctors and furnished with Scholars We read that Charles IV. Emperor and King of Bohemia having founded the University of Prague gave equal priviledges to the Bohemians Polanders and Germans and when he would retrench his favours towards strangers there went out of the Town in a weeks time 24000. Scholars and a little after 16000. more Whereby you may judge that there were more Scholars in Prague then other persons in some great City P. If I did not know that you flatter no body but love truth above all things I should hardly believe there were ever so many Scholars in Germany as you say there went out of Prague G. The last War hath so drained our Empire of men and money that I do not believe all Germany maintains so many Students at this time as there were at Prague in the year 1409. when they reckoned 44000. Scholars under the Rectorship of John Hus. Neither would it be thought strange that a War of 30. years during which time the Muses durst not appear any where should have exhausted the Empire both of Masters and Scholars Yet the Chairs of 32. Universities resound every day with the most sacred notions of Divinity the most equitable of Civil Law the most salubrious of physick the most sublime of Metaphysicks the most solid of Natural Philosophy the most recreative of Mathematicks the most prudential of Politicks the most subtile of Logick the most perswasive of Rhetorick and the most pleasing of Poetry P. Is it possible there should be so many Universities in Germany G. There are no less For Princes seeing that riches had infected the Cloysters with laziness and that the Sciences which heretofore seemed to be wholly confined within them were banished from them being desirous to preserve that Treasure which doth marvellously contribute to the glory of God the honour of the Prince and the peace of the Provinces they founded so many of them that Justus Lipsius saith there are more Universities in Germany then in all Christendom beside P. You believe that Learning is useful to keep the people in quiet and many men think that the Study of Divinity hath occasioned the growth of Heresies as that of the Law hath produced multitudes of Controversies and Suits which were unknown in the time of our Ancestors and that of Physick serves but to shorten our lives G. As an evil stomach turns the best food into putrifaction so a corrupt soul changes vertue into vice and light into darkness Divinity is a sacred Science which fights with and overcomes Heresies the Civil Law is the rule of Right which maintains Justice and banishes quarrels from amongst men and Physick teaches the vertues of Minerals and vegetables whereby the sound may preserve the health they enjoy and the sick recover that which they have lost If then Divines breed Heresies Lawyers processes and Physicians diseases it is not the fault of the Profession but of the Professors who abusing their knowledge do convert the goodness thereof into evil P. You will confess there were fewer Heresies Law-suits and diseases when there were not so many Universities in Europe G. The world growing old becomes so much worse and worse that if the Ancients should live again they would be astonished to see the corruption of our age The Heresies and suits in Law which you see are the fruits of humane malice and diseases are the effects of Navigations and avarice which have made men despise and hazard their lives to find out Sugar Pepper Cloves Nutmegs Cinnamon and other Spices that were unknown to the ancients who through that ignorance lived more piously more healthfully and longer then we do Ascribe then if you please the Original of Heresies Law-suits and diseases to mans covetousness which hath discovered the Indies and not to Universities which oppose them and had destroyed them too if impiety gluttony and drunkenness did not entertain and keep them amongst us P. I suppose you count the Universities of the Low Countreys among those of Germany otherwise there would not be so many and yet the Germans make scruple to acknowledge them for Doctors who have taken their degree at Leyden Franeker Groninguen and Vtrecht G. The Low Countreys being part of Germany it is reasonable that I rank their Universities among those of the Empire and I think they have good title to that honour because that of Doway was founded by Philip II. King of Spain A. D. 1562. that of Leyden was instituted by the States of Holland and by William Prince of Orange 1575. That of Franeker was established by the States of Friseland 1581. That of Groninguen 1614. and lastly that of Vtrecht 1636. As for the first there is no doubt but a King of Spain hath right to found Universities and the others having been founded in a time when the Soverainty of the States was still under dispute some question might jnstly be made whether they had power to give those priviledges which accompany the honour of Doctorship But now that all Europe acknowledges them for Soverains no man can make any more question of it And indeed the States General have so great care to procure eminent Professors for their Universities that Youth cannot but learn all kind of vertues there and ought to repair thither though they could not receive the Doctoral Cap in those places P. The Universities of Swisserland of Marpurg Altorf and Strasbourg are of no greater antiquity then those of the Low Countreys But because those men that administer Justice are commonly taken out of the Universities I think it not amiss that you tell me something of those in the Empire G. All the Universities in the Low Countreys are not so new That of Lovain began in the year 926. Afterwards John Duke of Brabant bestowed great priviledges upon it then it was confirmed by Pope Martin V. and at this time in the judgement of Iohn Becanus there are none in France
the vacancie ibid. What every Electors Office is when the Emperor eats in Ceremony and who are their Deputies if they be absent 59. How the Electors lit in the Assemblies 304. What Electors and Bishops are usually chosen out of the Body of the Nobility 256. 257. Younger sons of Electoral Houses precede other Princes in the Assemblies 305. Where the Election of an Emperor or King of the Romans ought to be made 49. whether it be better that Kingdoms be Elective or Successive 53.54 The Emperor is a Monarch 31. Confers no Ecclesiastical Benefices 33. No Emperor crowned at Rome since Charles V. 34. How the Emperors lost the right of choosing Popes 35. The Emperor onely can create Kings 38. The Emperor ought to be of a German Family 52. Of what age a Prince should be when chosen Emperor 57. The difference between the Emperor and King of the Romans ibid. What Emperors have been excommunicated by Popes 288. Whether the Emperor can determine matters where the Estates of the Empire do not agree 310. When the Empire was successive 40. When it became Elective and why ibid. The Estates of the Empire and their priviledges 64. 65. At first all the Estates of the Empire chose the Emperor 41. The House of Este in Italy a branch of that of Brunswick 108. F. Faith to be kept with Heretiques 184. seq Ferdinand III. his several Elections and death 314. Fourteen bloody Fights in Germany from the time of the Swedes entrance till the Peace 322. The Fight of Furts 326 of Lignitz in Silesia ibid. of Rheimfeld ibid. of Wittenvayer in Brisgou ibid. of Kemnitz in Misnia 328. of Wolfenbottel ibid of St. Anthony ibid. of Schweinitz in Silesia ibid. of Dutlinguen in the Dutchy of Wirtemberg 329. of Fribourg in Brisgou ibid. of Merkendal in Franconia ibid. The twelfth thirteenth Fights 330. The Fight of Grawembrouck in the Countrey of Juliers 331. Other Fights lefs bloody 332. Barons of Flekenstein 239. Francfort why so called and wherein considerable 271. What Forces France had in Germany when the Peace was made 336. What recompence the French had by that peace 333. French Commanders in the war of Germany 335. Fridberg 272. Frisinguen a Bishoprick 190. The Fructifying Company its end and progress and by whom established 164. Barons of Fuggers 239. The Abbey of Fulda and its priviledges 193. Counts of Furstemberg their origin c. 231. seq G. Difference between a Gentleman and a Knight 242. Immediate Gentlemen of Germany who 251. Why the Emperor supports them Ibid. The order and government amongst those Gentlemen 252. Their priviledges and advantages 256. seq Causes of the War of Germany 315. seq Gluckstad and the King of Denmarks Fort there 274. Gostar called the Imperial Palace and Royal City 272. Descent of the Dukes of Gotta 88. Death of Mareshal de Guebriant 329. Guelnehausen 272. House of the Guelphes their antiquity and Territories 108. seq The voices branches and Fortresses of that House 111 H. Counts of Habspourg a Branch of the Dukes of Zeringuen 70. When and how Rodolph of Habspourg became Emperor ibid. Haguenau Bailliage in Alsatia given to the French 273. Salt-pits of Hal in Swaben 276. Hambourg its strength and Trade 273. seq Counts of Hanau 234. Hanse-towns and their Commerce 280. 281. Heilbrun 276. Helmestadt an University of the Dukes of Brunswick 113. Counts of Henneberg when they failed 92. How the House of Saxony inherited that of Henneberg ibid. Origin of the House of Hesse 129. Henry of Brabant first Landgrave of Hesse 131. Agreement between him and Henry Marquis of Misnia son the Principalities of Hesse and Thuringia ibid. Lewis Landgrave of Hesse refused the Empire ibid. The vertues and good qualities of the Landgraves of Hesse 132. The Religion and differences between Lewis and Maurce Heads of the two Branches of Hesse-Cassel and Darmstadt 133.139 Hesse-Cassel the elder the richer and hath the precedence 134. Alliances of both the Houses ibid. Frederick Landgrave of Hesse Grand Prior of Malta in Germany his Expedition at Carthage 193. The excellencies of Amelia Elizabeth Dowager of Hesse 134.136 Her Forces when the Peace was concluded 337. The advantages she and heâ— son had by that Peace 339. Hildesheim a Bishoprick of miraculous foundation 187. The Princes of Hochberg and Baden of the same House their agreement and reciprocal Testament 142. Lords of Hobenlohe 235. Counts of Hohenzolleren 169. Origin of the Houses of Holstein and Oldenbourg 148. Dutchy of Holstein its extent Revenues 155. Counts of Horne Subiects to the Dukes of Burgundy their origin 226. The benefits and advantages of Hunting 20.21 I. Assessors of the Imperial Chamber how many and by whom appointed 289. Functions of the Intendents and Superintendents over the Lutheran Pastors and Priests 205.206 Order of Justice in the time of Charlemagne 287. Jutland what quantity of Cattle and horses come yearly out of it 155. K. Kaufbegeren why so called 276. Kempten in Latine Campidunum 270. King of the Romans what authority he hath 49. The Arms and Titles of the King of the Romans 57. Kings should not make a Subject too great 159. Dangerous for Kings to execute their resolutions by halves 162. Difference between a Knight and a Gentleman 242.243 Knights Marianites why so called their progress and difference from the Templers 191.192 Example of Kings that have received Knighthood 243. The cause and Original of the Orders of Knighthood 245. seq How the Emperor makes Knights 246. L. Ladies not unfit to Govern 135. seq The taking of General Lamboy 420. Landau 276. Landgrave Judge of an Inland Province 210. How Landgraves became powerful 211. Landgraves Generals of Foot ibid. What Houses in Germany bear the title of Landgrave 213. Landgraveship no where but in Germany ibid. Usefulness of Foraine Languages 8. where the French Language in best spoken 18. What other Countries use it most 26. Where the Italian Language is the purest 17. Where it is most currant 26. Dukes of Lawembourg and Anhalt their origin and antiquity 157. Religion and titles of the Dukes of Lawembourg 166. Laws that oblige all Germany are made in the General Assemblies 62. League of the French Swedes Hollanders and Princes of Germany against the House of Austria 319. League of the Princes for and with the Emperor ibid. Whether a prince ought to be Learned 115. Counts of Leinneguen 234. The Tragical end of John of Leyden 188. Liege a Bishoprick ibid. Barons or Counts of Limbourg their titles and antiquity 235. Barons of Limbourg Deputies to the King of Bohemia as Great Cup-bearer of the Empire ibid. Lindau 276. Duke of Lorrain considerable for the situation of his Countrey 112. Lubeck its situation by whom built 275. Princes of Lunebourg and their Alliances 113. Who brought the Doctrine of Luther into Denmark 150. Lutheran Princes of Germany 208. Lutheran Cities ibid. Luther was born and died at Eiseliben 235. M. Counts of Mansfield
it translating all the books that they count worthy of their pains P. There are some that undervalue Translations and endeavour to cast an imputation upon them as pernicious to the Common-wealth being causes of lazyness and negligence G. I know there be some learned men are sorry that an entrance is opened into the Temple of wisdom through an easier door then Greek and Latin But notwithstanding their opinion it is certain that Great men should not be debarred of the knowledge necessary for them under the specious pretenses that the Latin and Greek Tongues will be lost in Germany if men may find Learning in their native Language P. If Prince Lewis hath been fortunate in this commendable enterprize his Countrey is greatly obliged to him For these translations do not forbid any man to look into the Originals being only for such as have not time to learn the Languages which furnish us with books But of what Religion are the Princes of these two Houses G. Duke Francis Herman and Iulius Henry his Father who are at this time the eldest and ruling Princes of Saxon-Lawembourg are turned Catholiques the brethren of the forenamed Iulius Henry are Protestants as also the Prince of Anhalt residing at Zerbst All the rest are of the Reformed Religion and very zealous in it The first sort of these Princes take the title of Dukes of Saxony Hungary and Westphalia the other Princes of Anhalt assume that of Counts of Ascania Lords of Berembourg and Zerbst Lawembourg is a fine place upon the Elbe but the Castle is ruined and the Duke lives at Ratzebourg though he have nothing there but the Castle the City belonging to the Duke of Meklebourg The River of Sala crosses the Principality of Anhalt which makes it no less beautiful then fruitful But the Countrey is very little and the Princes stand in need of a greater estate to exercise the liberality to which they have so strong an inclination P. Liberality is the proper vertue of Princes and I think it were better for a great Lord to be profuse then avaritious G. Every man should take a true measure of his ability and give no more then he can well bear Prodigality hath a semblance of something more noble then avarice hath and really it is less odious nay they that gain by it make it pass for a vertue but perchance it is more prejudicial to posterity and no less dangerous then the other extreme Though a King should give away his whole Kingdom he would not satisfie all that ask no nor all that think they deserve much of him It is then more convenient to give with reason never to draw so near the bottom but that Great men may alwayes have wherewithal to gratifie persons of merit and above all they should take special care that their liberality be exercised without the oppression of the People to avoid murmuring which may produce Rebellion P. There is no need of making Laws against giving too much Princes are not so free and there are not many of them that want a Tutor or Overseer in that kind Let us go forward if you please to that which remains concerning the Princes of the Empire G. Seeing we reserve the Dukes of Savoy and Lorraine and the Princes of Orange for another place we have no more to speak of but the Princes of Montbeliard Henneberg Zolleren Aremberg and East-Frizeland P. Did you not say enough of the Princes of Montbeliard when you were discoursing of the Duke of Wirtemberg G. It is true indeed that the Principality of Montbeliard belongs to the House of Wirtemberg ever since the year 1397. at which time Eberhard the younger married Henrietta heiress of that fair Territory Yet it is good for you to know that the present Prince is son to Lewis Frederick grandchild to Frederick Duke of Wirtemberg who having had many sons gave to his youngest the Counties of Montheliard and Horbourg the Soverainty of Ericourt the Lordships of Blamont Clairval Passevant and Richeville with the Barony of Grangeâ— This Prince hath Salt-pits and Iron-works that yield him great profit and a voice in the Assemblies but hath never a child His younger brother keeps his residence at Horbourg and is married to Anne of Coligny by whom he hath children P. It is said that the Prince of Montbeliard had heretofore a hundred thousand Rix-dollars yearly Rent Pass we on to those of Henneberg G. These Lords have not long had the quality of Prince Their Family was utterly extinguished in the year 1583. and their Principality past into the power of the Dukes of Saxony by vertue of a Confraternity The seat of the old Race was at Eslesunguen where their Sepulchres are yet to be seen and many â—pitaphs that evidence the grandeur of that illustrious House which was in great credit in the time of Charlemagne P. There are few Genealogies to be seen wherein the Counts of Henneberg have not a place But since they are all gone I had rather you should give me an account of those of Hohenzolleren G. The House of Hohenzolleren is a Branch of that of Brandenbourg and so this Prince is Vicar to the great Chamberlain of the Empire and gives the Emperor water to wash when he eats in Ceremony if the Elector of Brandenbourg be not present Ertel Frederick Count of Hohenzolleren was made Prince at the Diet of Ratisbon in the year 1623. and all the eldest brethren of his House bear the same quality The present Prince married the daughter and heiress of the Count Henry of Berg his youngest brother is Gentleman of the Chamber to the Emperor and the middlemost Canon of Collen These Lords have estate enough and might be rich yet they are in bad condition for want of order and good husbandry P. The Princes of Hohenzolleren are of very high extraction and have a very noble habitation at Echingnen where the Castle is magnificent and Hohenzolleren is seated upon the brow of a high hill I would willingly know how those of Aremberg were made Princes of the Empire G. These Princes having performed great services to the House of Austria and specially to the King of Spain were advanced to the highest Commands in the Low Countreys where they were often honoured with the Collar of the Golden Fleece and at last obtained a place among the Princes of the Empire by the favour of the Emperor Maximilian II. Duke Albert son to Robert Duke of Aremberg and Claudina Countess of the Rhine married Mary daughter and heiress to Everard Prince of Barbanson by whom he hath left Octavius who at this day bears the quality of Prince of Aremberg and Isabel married to Vlrick Duke of Wirtemberg This Princess is of incomparable beauty and prudence and the Prince her brother extremely courteous P. Being this House hath its lands and habitations upon the King of Spains Territories you may discourse of it more at large in another place Let us now see that of East-Friseland
and tell me when it obtained the quality of Count and lastly of Prince G. The Counts of East-Friseland and those of Oldenbourg did always maintain great feuds and emulations between one another till the year 1656. At which time Antony Gunther dying without issue lawfully begotten left the King of Denmark and the Duke of Holstein for his Successors And I believe the cause of that mis-understanding might proceed from hence That Mary of Jeuer being married to Eno Count of East-Friseland and having children by him did yet make John Count of Oldenbourg her heir and again that the Counts of East-Friseland being less ancient then those of Oldenbourg are as rich as well or better allied then they and do also exercise Soverain Justice over their Subjects P. I know the Counts of Oldenbourg are the ancienter But when did those of East-Friseland begin G. Vlrick Sirxena Lord of Gietziel and other lands was made Count of East-Friseland by the Emperor Frederick III. A. D. 1454. That Lord married Folca who brought him in Dowry the Lordships of Escui and Stetendorf Of that marriage came Edzar l. of that name Father of Eno who married Mary of Ieuer by whom he had Edzar II. That Count aspired higher then his Predecessors and took to wife Catherine daughter to Gustavus I. King of Sweden of whom he begat Iohn from whom the Counts of Ritberg are descended and Eno II. who married Anne daughter to Adolph Duke of Holstein by whom he had Vlrick husband to Iuliana daughter to Lewis Landgrave of Hesse Darmstadt This Princess remains a Widow and makes it her business to bring up her children well of whom Edzar Ferdinand is still travelling abroad George Christian is at home with her and Eno Lewis her eldest son having continued some time at the Imperial Court was there made Counsellor to the Emperor and Gentleman of his Chamber Afterward in the year 1653 he was raised unto the rank and dignity of Prince by the Emperor Ferdinand III. at the Diet of Ratisbon This Prince was contracted to Henrittta daughter to Frederick Henry of Nassau Prince of Orange while they were both children but the parties not liking one another the Artitles of marriage were broken and Eno Lewis married Iustina Sophia Countess of Barly November 7. 1656. I am told for certain that this Prince hath 150000. Crowns Revenue and thereby is well enabled to maintain the quality he bears which is annext to the eldest alone the other being no more then Counts and having no part in the Countrey P. We are at length arrived to the end of this journey Let us rest a while and afterwards we will take a view of the Ecclesiastical Princes G. I am content and shall in the mean time prepare my self to tell you how the Ecclesiastical Princes live in Germany how many they are what order of place they observe in the Assemblies by whom and how they were raised to their dignity to what Jurisdiction they are subject and all other necessary things that shall come into my head The end of the Fifth Dialogue Dialogue VI. Of the Ecclesiastical Princes of the Empire P. THe Princes Ecclesiastical hold the first rank in the Empire and you place them after the Seculars but it matters not much since it is neither for want of respect nor of knowing their due place Well then let us see whether the Empire be as venerable by the Mitres of its Prelates as it is formidable by the Sword of its Souldiers G. There is never a Countrey in Christendom where Prelates have so much power as in Germany They are almost all Great Princes and as absolute over the Temporalty of their Benefices as a Secular Elector is over his Lands These riches are now and then misapplied to bad uses and the debauches made by Church-men their great Train the dogs the horses they maintain the Jesters they keep for their pleasure and their dissolute life obliged our Predecessors to upbraid them with it and allow us to believe that they gave occasion to Doctor Luther to preach against their Doctrine as well as their evil conversation Yet still it is often seen that the same Prelate possesseth two three nay a greater number of huge Benefices of the Empire and spends the Revenue thereof without any scruple of conscience in worldly pomp continual debauches and other things unworthy of their rank and profession P. These Princes give themselves but little if at all to their studies misusing their riches and think it beneath their greatness to preach the word of God and do other Ecclesiastical functions But they do not all live alike G. Whatever is spoken against ungodly persons doth nothing concern the truly religious There are Prelates of sundry conditions and different humors some are voluptuous and others chast some love nothing but dogs and bouffons others make much of worthy persons Heretofore besides the three Ecclesiastical Electors there were five Archbishops and thirty Bishops that had seat and voice in the Assemblies of the Empire At this time there are not so many because the Archbishopricks of Magdebourg Bremen and Riga and the Bishopricks of Halberstad Minden and Verden have been changed into Secular Principalities as those also of Besanson Verdun Mets and Toul were dismembred from the Empire and inseparably united to the Lands of Spain and France by the last Treaty of Peace And those of Valesia Losanna and Chur have been abolished by the Suisses So that at present there is none but Saltzbourg that holds the rank of Archbishop in the Colledge of the Princes and about twenty Bishops P. The German Church must without question have lost very much by the last Treaty of Peace where three Archbishopricks and six Bishopricks were Secularized G. Riga was cut off from the Empire before and all those other Benefices were in the power of the Lutherans who had no mind to let them slip out of their fingers And so methinks the generality of the Protestant Princes hath lost more by this Treaty then the German Church seeing the Princes have now no more means to provide for their younger brethren as they had before For in real truth the Elector of Saxony had Magdebourg the King of Denmark Bremen and some other Lords the Bishopricks whereof we have last made mention P. The King of Spain having the Archbishopricks of Besanson and Cambray in his possession there is little likelyhood that those Archbishops should come to the Diets of the Empire G. I do not know whether those Prelates have lost the right they had to sit in the Assemblies of the Empire but it is certain that Cambray doth not challenge the place of an Archbishoprick there though it have gotten that name amongst the Prelates of the Low Countreys by the augmentation of Bishopricks in Flanders which King Philip II. made in the beginning of his Reign That Prelate keeps his ancient title and always qualifies himself Duke of Cambray Count of Cambresis and Prince of the
for the money they disbursed in that War and besides such a considerable summe Pomerania which is more worth then Alsatia is left in their hands G. They have not only received that summe and Pomerania but Wismar also a Port of the Baltique Sea the Fortress of Walfisch the Bailiwick of Poel and Neucloster which heretofore belonged to the House of Meklebourg and which is yet more the Archbishoprick of Bremen and Bishoprick of Verden converted into Dutchies together with the City and Bailywick of Wilshausen In all which lands and Principalities the Swedes have Soverain Justice right to erect an University and to set Imposts upon all commodities that enter into go out of or grow within the Countrey by them conquered and possessed So by that Peace the King of Sweden hath gotten the names and titles of Duke of Bremen Verden and Pomerania Prince of Rugia and Lord of Wismar P. You told me before that during the last War the Swedes had more Forces in Germany then the French and I see now they have reaped much more profit make me understand what satisfaction the Heroical Lady of Hesse received G. That Princess which reigned in the hearts of all those that have had the honour to speak with her had too well served the victorious Party to remain without satisfaction It was therefore accorded unto her for her self her son William and their Successors for ever that besides the general clause of the Article Tandent omnes they should enjoy the Abbey of Hirchfeld with all its appurtenances as well Ecclesiastical as Secular as well without as within the Territory of the said Abbey and the right Lordships and demesnes of the Cities and Bailywicks of Schaumbourg Bukembourg Saxenhaguen and Stathaguen which heretofore belonged to the Bishoprick of Minden and 600000. Crowns in money payable at Cassel within nine moneths after the publication of the Peace And for an accomplishment and full measure of satisfaction the Assembly of Munster ratified the transaction between the two Branches of Cassel and Darmstadt made by the mediation of Ernest Duke of Saxon-Gotta April 14. 1649. and the right of Primogeniture in those two Branches P. Those satisfactions were without question of very hard digestion to the contrary party but a good Peace cannot be bought too dear G. The Emperor lost nothing for by giving up his right in Alsatia he made the Kingdom of Bohemia Hereditary to his House But the Spaniards will not easily be able to comfort themselves for that loss because if Alsatia and Lorraine remain in the hands of the French it will be impossible for them to joyn their Forces of Italy with those of the Low Countreys unless they transport them by Sea with great expense and greater danger or through the Territories of others which cannot be done without buying the friendship of those that are not willing to see the formidable forces of Spain united And from hence grows a great advantage to the French by that Treaty P. Methinks I am now sufficiently instructed in that which concerns our Germany But having heard nothing hitherto of the Golden Bull except some words which you have scattered here and there I would gladly hear you discourse more amply of it G. That Bull is the Diamond Nail which holds together these remainders of the Empire and keeps them from dissolution by the wholesome Ordinances which it contains touching the time the place and the persons which ought to concur to the Election of the Emperor the number immunities and preheminences of the Electors the integrity candor and probity which they ought to use in choosing the first Prince of Christendom the order they ought to keep in their Assemblies as well while they accompany the Emperor as in their seats and places and to cut off all occasion of dispute between the Princes of the Electoral Houses the Emperor by that Edict sets down and prescribes the order they are to observe in their successions who ought to be Tutor and Guardian of their sons during their Minority and at what age they are to come out of Wardship Now because Elective Estates have no symptom more dangerous then while they lie under an Interregnum the Bull provides a remedy for that inconvenience ordaining that the Electors Palatine and of Saxony shall be his Majesties perpetual Vicars and shall have the same power after his death or in his absence that the Emperor had while he was living and present Lastly that Bull contains the office of every Elector at the Coronations Processions and publick Feasts of the Emperor P. Methinks in that Bull the Emperor Charles IV. hath had more care of the Electors then of all the Empire besides G. The Electors are the principal Pillars of our State and the Emperor thinking the destruction of the Empire might follow upon their dissension his special aim was to keep them united together by his Ordinance and to provide for the time to come that there should be no disorder in the Election of the Emperors nor in the Succession of the Princes Electors that the septenary number should continue for ever as most proper for an action of so great importance P. Is that Bull of any bigness G. It is a little book the Original whereof bing written in parchment containes 24. leaves and 30. Chapters of which the 23. first were published at Nuremberg the 10. of Ianuary 1356. and the other seven at Mets on Christmas day in the same year by the full power of his Majesty in the presence and with the consent of the most part of the Princes Lords and other Estates of the Empire the Emperor wearing the Imperial Cloak and having the Crown upon his head the Scepter in one hand and the Ball of the Empire in the other P. Why is that little book called The Golden Bull G. The Letters Patents of Emperors Popes and some other great Princes are called Bulls by reason of the seal which gives them their strength and validity Those Bulls or Seals are not alwayes of the same matter nor of the same bigness but according to the importance of the Letters the Seal is greater or less and of different wax or metal The ordinary Letters are sealed with an impression made upon wax the colour and bigness whereof encreaseth either the respect to or the honour of those persons to whom they are directed and those that contain Edicts are sealed with lead silver or gold according to the importance of the Laws which the Prince publishes From hence it was that this perpetual and irrevocable Edict containing the fundamental Laws of the Empire ought to be sealed with his Majesties great seal and not upon wax lead or silver but upon gold to show that as that metal is incorruptible the most excellent of all so the matters contained in that Bull being the principal Laws of the Empire should be preserved there without alteration P. Tell me more particularly of what fashion that Bull is G. The
add further that persons of low degree are elected who become insolent upon it and leave no stone unturned to make the Crown Hereditary to their Family and which is still worse sometimes the Electors being at variance instead of one Head set many over the Common-wealth But all these reasons are good and allowable in those States where Succession hath had place for many ages The Germans had rather have their Emperors by choice and to prevent those inconveniences they many times elect a Successor to the Empire while the Emperor is living And though that course be not taken yet the Empire is not in danger to fall into Anarchy or any disorder seeing the Electors Palatine and of Saxony are Vicars of the Emperor and Administrators of the Empire during the Interregnum And so the ship is never without a Pilot in Germany where to abate the desire which the Emperors may have to agrandize their children by weakning the Monarchy they usually make choice of the nearest of Kin to the Reigning Prince and they do not transfer the Crown to another House but when they find never a Head worthy of it in that Family that hath it in possession This way of continuing the Imperial Dignity in one House doth also hinder the inconvenience of advancing men of low degree to the Throne and of giving two Heads at a time to one single Common-wealth For which cause I think it not fit to innovate any thing in a State and that every Nation should persevere in their ancient customes forasmuch as all changes in a State are dangerous P. God be thanked we do not see so many murders and seditions in Germany during the Interregnum as there are at Rome but there hath been no means found out to prevent alienating the demesns of the Empire The Emperor hath almost nothing left in Italy and the best Cities of Germany being enfranchiz'd the sinew of the State hath lost much of its strength which could never have been if the Empire had alwayes been Successive G. There is nothing complete and entire in this World and it is as hard to find a perfect form of Government as a Common-wealth a King an Orator a Captain a Courtier an Ambassador with the qualities which Plato Xenophon Cicero Onosander Castalio and Tasso Fancy and desire When a Kingdom is Successive the people is often forced to obey a child or rather those who abusing his authority do oppress and exhaust his Subjects during his Minority When it is Elective they are divers times put to no small trouble to find out a good King and when they think they have chosen an Augustus a Trajan or an Antonine it proves too often that they have pitched upon a William a Henry VII or a Wenceslaus We must look for perfection in Heaven and not think to meet with it here below P. Seeing we are in Germany where Election hath place we ought to prefer it before Succession and to speak truth considering the State of the Empire at present it seems to be preferable But of what age should a Prince be to be capable of being placed upon the Imperial Throne G. It were to be wished that he were one who had beforehand given some proofs of his vertue and made his name glorious by his Military actions nevertheless though by the Law no man can be raised to eminent honours before the age of 25. years yet the Electors do not alwayes tie themselves strictly to those rules For they chose Otho III. in his infancy Henry III. at twelve Henry IV. at eight Frederick II. and William at twenty Wenceslaus at fifteen and Charles V. at nineteen years of age P. I would willingly know what difference there is between the Emperor and the King of the Romans G. You will meet with some Writers who mean the Emperor when they are speaking of the King of the Romans and yet they are distinct persons For no man can be Vicar to himself and the King of the Romans is the Emperors perpetual Vicar when the Emperor is absent or taken up with other affairs he administers the Empire and the Emperor being dead he succeeds without dispute The King of the Romans bears for his Arms the Eagle with one head the Emperor with two he is styled Augustus and the Emperor semper Augustus The Emperor writing to him useth the term of Liebten in Dutch which signifies Dilection but he writing or speaking to the Emperor gives him that of Majesty To conclude he acknowledges the Emperor for his Superior and though in his absence he exercise the same power the Emperor did it is but by concession for he hath no authority of his own within the Empire so long as the Emperor is living And therefore if he take place of other Kings it is only because he exerciseth the same Jurisdiction which the Emperor doth P. Is the King of the Romans the only Vicar of the Empire G. Heretofore there were 3. Deputies in the East as many in the West one in Africa and another in Spain At present there are but two for all to wit the Electors of the Rhine and of Saxony whose dignity is derived from the office of great Steward which they had under the Emperors of Charlemagne's Race By virtue of that dignity when the Emperor dyes and before a Successor be chosen the first governs the Rhine Franconia Swaben and Bavaria as far as the Alpes the other all that Countrey where the Saxon Laws are observed But if there be a King of the Romans that right ceases because he is Emperor that very moment wherein the other deceaseth So that it may be said when there is a King of the Romans he is the only Vicar of the Empire and when there is not one the Electors of the Rhine and Saxony alone are the Vicars P. We have hitherto spoken sufficiently of the Emperor of his Vicars and of the Electors Nevertheless before we proceed any further I would know whether the Emperor take the name of Cesar before his Coronation and how he is served when he eats in State G. Immediately after the Emperor is chosen he takes the name of Emperor of Cesar and of Augustus and if he pleases gives priviledges and does all other acts of Soverainty Afterwards when he will display the Splendor of his Majesty he dines in Ceremony and then the Ecclesiastical Electors say Grace and hold the Seals the Elector of Brandenburg gives him water to wash the Saxon executes the Office of Marshal the Palsgrave presents him the first dish of meat and the King of Bohemia the first glass of Wine But he wears not the Crown upon his head unless he will himself And if any Elector be absent his Deputy performs his Office and not his Ambassador now the Lieutenants or Deputies of the Electors are the Lords and Counts of Limbourg of Walpourg of Papentheim and of Hohenzolleren for the four ancient Seculars I do not know who is the Count Palatines
have voice and seat in the Assemblies G. All the Estates of the Empire who are the Electors the Princes the Prelates the Counts the Barons and the Imperial Cities And besides the place and voice they have in general and particular Assemblies they have also a certain right of Regality and the priviledge of the Austregues that is a right not to be convented or brought before any but peculiar Judges P. I thought that the Emperor alone had the right of Regality that this right and Majesty were one and the same thing and that but few Counts and Barons had place and voice in the Assemblies G. By the Counts and Barons which I told you had seat and suffrage in the Assemblies you should understand those that are Estates of the Empire and abstract all others even those Lords to whom the Emperor gives the title of Prince in his Hereditary Countreys who are in no small number the abuse being grown to that height that few or none are content with the title of Gentleman As to the other part of your supposition you should take notice that Soverainty and Regalities are different things Soverainty is that which essentially constitute the Emperor that is which makes him to be Emperor and Regalities are the Adjuncts of Soverainty and the Rights which flow from it as rivulets from their spring P. I beseech you explain your self a little more G. For the better understanding of what I have even now said you must note that the word Regality is diversly taken to wit 1. for great Lordships held in Fee of the Crown 2. for Churches extraordinarily rich 3. for the right of giving great Benefices 4. for the Royal Ensigns which are carried before Kings and put upon their heads and into their hands and 5. for the Rights which have been given to Emperors for marks of a Soverain eminence Regalities may be also distinguished into the greater and the lesser The greater are Regalities of Dignity which relate to the Emperor person the lesser are Regalities of Vtility which regard his Treasure The great one are incommunicable the lesser are communicable and communicated to Princes Lords and Cities to one more to another less according to the good pleasure of the Emperors P. I do not yet fully understand which be the Regalities of Dignity I pray speak a little more at large of them G. The Regalities of Dignity are the immense power which the Emperor hath to give the title of King Elector Archduke Duke c. to make Laws to administer Justice and other such like things P. I think the Emperor hath communicated the right of administring Justice unto the Imperial Chambers of his Court and of Spire G. That is true but the power of the Chambers is no argument why the Emperor alone should not be said to have the Soverain Right of administring Justice For the Judge of those Chambers bears the Imperial Sceptre to show that he exercises the Emperors jurisdiction there all judgements are pronounced there in his Majesties name and sealed with his Arms Which makes it clear that all is done by his authority and in his name P. Was Justice always administred by the Soverain Chambers which his Majesty hath established the one in his Court and the other at Spire G. The Chamber of Justice or Parliament of the Empire was ambulatory till the time of Maximilian I. who taking pity of the parties that were necessitated to follow the Court and seek for Justice there at great expenses at the request of Berchtold Count of Henneberg who was then Elector of Mentz established a Sedentary Chamber at Wormes in the year 1495. from whence it was soon after removed to Spire but cannot be withdrawn from that place without the consent of all the Estates P. Doubtless the Emperor hath given an extraordinary jurisdiction to that Chamber for I have heard say that it hath concurrence of jurisdiction with his Majesty G. The Chamber of Spire can have no concurrent jurisdiction with the Emperor unless it be that his Majesty may concur with himself for the jurisdiction of the Chamber is nothing else but the Emperors jurisdiction Besides the Emperor hath not established the Chamber to concur with him but to administer Justice in his name For in transferring thither all the jurisdiction universally for so much as concerns Civil causes he hath ordered that nothing shall be dispatched but in his name and under his Seal Whereby it is easie to judge that there is a dependence and not a concurrence of the Chamber of Spire with the Emperor who also causeth the Assessors to be punished when they transgress and swerve from their duty P. Seeing the Emperor hath transmitted all his jurisdiction unto that Chamber certainly it passeth judgement upon all things without appeal G. Except Ecclesiastical and Spiritual matters as the crimes of Heresie Adultery and other such like the cognizance whereof belongs to the Church that Chamber Judges finally and absolutely of every thing So that an appeal cannot be made unto the Emperor and much less to the Pope even in a cause of a pious nature And there is a Decree to be seen of the 20. February 1512. whereby one that appealed to the Pope was fined a hundred Marks of Gold But this Chamber takes no knowledge in the first instance but of the causes which concern some Immediate person that is immediately depending upon the Emperor P. Are all Immediate persons Estates of the Empire G. The Gentlemen of Swaben Franconia the Rhine and the lower Alsatia are not Estates of the Empire though they be immediately subject to the Emperor P. Let us begin to speak of the Estates of the Empire and tell me if you please what was the original of the House of Austria how long it hath worn the Imperial Crown into how many branches it is divided by what means it became so potent and what are its priviledges G. You ask too many things at once yet I will answer them But that we may avoid confusion I will speak severally of that which you have proposed conjunctly And as to your first question I say that flatterers think they can never raise the beginning of this Most August House high enough unless they fetch it from the Trojan horse and tracing the Fables of the old Romans invent a fine Genealogy from near 500. years before the birth of Jesus Christ Others would have it to descend from Charlemagne in a direct masculine line The most common opinion is that the Counts of Habspourg who wear the Imperial Crown at this present are a branch of the Dukes of Zeringuen from whom also the Marquisses of Baden are descended and the Dukes of Teck whose lands are passed by marriage into the House of Wirtemberg P. That which you say is not out of controversie for a modern Author affirms confidently that the Archdukes of Austria and the Kings of France come both out of one and the same stock But because we desire
which are worthy of illustrious persons P. Doth it cost his Highness of Wirtemberg much to maintain the Professors and Masters of exercises which you now mentioned G. More then you think but that expense is not considerable in comparison of the glory which redounds from thence This Colledge and this University are the Pearls which do wonderfully set off the Crown of this Duke For although he be exceedingly at his ease though he have whatsoever he can wish though the delight of Hunting never fail him though every day present him some new delicacies made or growing upon his own Territories yet he would be much less spoken of in Forain Countreys if Eberhard the Wise had not founded that University if Christopher the Prudent had not projected this Colledge if Lewis the Pious had not built it if Frederick the Magnanimous had not endowed it if John Frederick the Peaceable had not preserved it and if Eberhard the Constant had not raised it to a higher point for the good of the Princes Lords and Gentlemen of the Empire P. Are none admitted into this Colledge but persons of quality G. This Colledge would not be illustrious if all sorts might be promiscuously received into it And these Princes having erected it for the education of persons of noble extraction they have thought it convenient to exclude those that are not Gentlemen born to the end that whilest there is none there but such as are obliged to aspire unto an eminent vertue and that have worthy Predecessors to imitate there may be nothing seen but such examples as may give furtherance to young Lords in the purfâ—â— of that mark they aim at Nevertheless it is sufficient qualification for the Masters and Governors of Great men to be modest knowing and pious P. I would gladly know in what manner they live in this Colledge G. Order being the essential principle of all Societies Laws have been made that appoint every one what he is to do and what he is to avoid These Rules are read unto such as enter into the Colledge to remain there and they all promise and engage before the President of the Colledge to observe them except great Lords who are not bound to those Laws but so far forth as decency and the command of their Parents enjoyns them to obey their Governors who are responsible for them and are themselves subject to the Laws which are extreme easie and require nothing of any man but what he cannot well omit without running counter to honour and honesty P. This Institution is worthy of such Princes But is the Dutchy of Wirtemberg so great that it can maintain this Colledge and the University of Tubing without incommodating the Prince G. This Countrey is not so considerable for the extent as for the goodness of the Soil and number of Lordships in which they reckon 63. Cities 158. great Towns 645. Villages 537. Water-mills and 14. Abbeys of large Revenue Before the War this Duke could have brought together 24000. men in 24. hours and at this time he hath a fair Militia afwell of Horse as Foot and many Fortresses whereof Schocenderf Habsperg Anach and Neïf are indifferent good and Hoheuvilz one of the best in Germany P. Do me the favour to acquaint me further with the Priviledges and Alliances of this Prince G. There is no Prince in Germany that hath more noble priviledges then this Duke Not one of his subjects can appeal from his Justice And for that purpose he hath a Presidial Court at Tubing composed of five Gentlemen four Doctors and as many Burgers who give definitive judgement upon all controversies that happen between his Highness Subjects both in Civil and Criminal causes also a Consistory formed of certain Divines and other grave persons who are skilful in matters Ecclesiastical and such as have any relation to the Spiritual as Marriages and Adulteries He hath other Councels also for affairs of State and of the Exchequor As to your demand touching the Alliances of this House I find that anciently the Males married Marchionesses of Brigan Dutchesses of Lernigen daughters of Kings of Poland and of Emperors Dutchesses of Bavaria Milan Savâ—y and Cleve Since they were Dukes Eberhard I. married Barbarâ— of Gonzage Eberhard II. Elizabeth Marchioness of Brandenbourg Vlrick Sabius daughter to Albert the Wise Duke of Bavaria Christopher Anne Mary Marchioness of Brasdenbourg Lewis Dorothy Vrsula Marchioness of Baden and Vrsula Princess Palstine Frederick had Sibyll Princess of Anhalt for the conservatress of his House John Frederick took Barbara Sophia Princess Electoral of Brandenbourg for an assistant and admirer of his Magnificence and Eberhard III. had Anne Catherine Rhingravess for the comfortress of his displeasures in the time of the War and Mary Dorothy Sophia Countess of Ottinguen for a partner of his felicity in the time of peace with whom he lived in such perfect union and harmony that it seemed as it were a taste upon earth of the life hereafter in Heaven P. Hath this Prince no children G. He had 14. by his first wife and hath still nine of them very sweet lovely persons The five Princesses speak French and dance as if they had been bred at Paris The eldest son John Frederick is excellent for horsemanship and at his Weapon William Lewis Frederick Charles and Charles Maximilian are but young but they carry in their countenances such characters of generosity as easily perswade me they will one day make the vertues of their bravest Ancestors live again P. Methinks you are very much addicted to this House and yet you do not tell me that one of the younger sons of Frederick the Magnanimous had Weiltingen and Brents and the youngest of all Monbeliard Ericourt Granges Horbourg Richeville and their appurtenances which give him a voice in the Diets of the Empire and almost all the Nobility in the Franche-County and Burgundy hold of him in Fee Also that this Princes Lands depending upon the Empire enjoy the same right that the Dutchy of Wirtemberg doth and that the eldest Son had the Dutchy entire and left it undivided to his eldest Son G. I have elsewhere said that the right of Primogenitute takes place in this House And since you are not satisfied with what I have told you hitherto you ought to know that the four daughters of Frederick the Magnanimous were married to John George I. Elector of Saxony John George Marquis of Zeguerendorf Frederick Marquis of Baden and Francis Julius Duke of Lower Saxony which are high Alliances The sons of Lewis Frederick Prince of Monbeliard are married the eldest to Sibyll Dutchess of Wirtemberg and the younger to Anne of Coligny Dutchess of Chastillon The younger son of Julius Frederick married a Countess of Aldembourg and the eldest a Dutchess of Mansterberg who brought him is dowry the Principality of Ols in Silesia Vlrick a younger son of the present Duke was General of the Forain Horse for the Spaniard in Flanders where he took to Wife Isabell
King of Sweden And all these Princesses have children P. If promises be debts you are bound to tell me to whom the other Princesses of this House are married G. Elizabeth Juliana daughter to Frederick who resides at Nortbourg married Antony Vlrick Duke of Brunswick A. D. 1656. Her Cousins daughters to Philip are thus married Mary Elizabeth to George Albert Marquiss of Brandenbourg Augusta to Ernest Gunther Duke of Holstein Christina to Christian Duke of Saxony and Dorothy to Christian Lewis Duke of Lunebourg Hedwig is still to marry and Sophia Hedwig dyed after she had born two children to her husband Maurice Duke of Saxony P. Doth the whole Countrey of Schleswick Holstein and their appurtenances yield a great Revenue G. All these Dutchies together make up above 7000. Crowns of yearly Rent I would in good manners adde one Cypher more and make it 70000 lest the Estates of many private English Gentlemen should exceed the Revenue of these Dutchies And although a great part of the Countrey be taken up in Lakes and Forests yet it abounds with all things by reason of the Ocean and Baltick Seas that make many Harbors there There come out of Jutland above 12000. head of Cattle every year and a great number of Horses which are to be brought into the Castle of Gottorf and if his Highness will have any of them he may take them at 18. Rix-dollars a piece The Dutchy of Holstein contains 8000. Ploughs and yet it contributes no more then the City of Lubeck to the necessities of the Empire The peasants there are slaves and the Nobility rich ambitious and valiant as much as any in Europe P. I have heard you say you have drunk so good Spanish Wine at Gottorf Plone Redwisch and Eutin that I am perswaded the remembrance thereof hath made you stay so long in Holstein Yet you must come from thence and see whether the Romeldenph of Ratzebourg and the Beer of Zerbst will be able to keep you at the houses of the Dukes of Saxony and the Princes of Anhalt G. If you would give me leave to entertain you at large about the generosity of the Princes of Holstein we would speak of the horses rings and other gentile presents that were offered me at Gottorf Plone Redwisch and Eutin but since we must pass into the Dutchy of Lawembourg and into the Principality of Anhalt I shall tell you that the Duke Augustus and the Prince Christian have by their favours sufficiently obliged me to be a particular servant to their House which hath at the same time afforded Electors both of Saxony and Brandenbourg P. I shall be glad to know when and how those Princes got and lost those Electorships with the antiquity of their Houses their Titles their Alliances their Religion the number of the Branches whereinto they are divided and other things that you shall judge requisite for my instruction G. No man denies but that these Houses sprung out of one and the same root and that they are reckoned amongst the ancientest in Christendom but I hold it a vanity to enquire for a descent from Father to Son ever since Adams time to ours because the Ancients were more studious to deserve an immortal glory then to seek for Writers to transmit the same to posterity The Author of the Genealogical Tables which the Prince Augustus gave me at Pleskau in the year 1650. Affirms that these Princes were Kings Dukes and Generals of the Saxons even before the coming of Christ and sets down for Head of this Family Berenthobald who in the quality of King led the Saxons to the War against Hermanford King of Thuringia A. D. 524. Limneus goes higher saying they come from Ascana son to Gomer Nephew to Iaphet Noahs son However it be this House is extremely ancient it being above 1000. years since Berenthobald II. and III. were Generals of the Saxons against Clovis II. and Dagobert Kings of France and since Clovis III. King of France married Batildis daughter to Beranger a Princess of this House All which things make it evident that this Family was come to full growth before many very noble ones were produced P. Seeing those Princes were Kings or Dukes of the Saxons how comes it to pass that they kept not that Dignity G. Those titles were not always Hereditary Anciently the Saxons and many other people chose a Duke or a King when they stood in need of one for the War otherwise their State was Aristocratical and Dignities descended not to their heirs In the days of Charlemagne Witikind Head of the Saxons had Aribo Beranger his Son or Brother-in-law for his Lieutenant General And when they were vanquished by the valour of Charles and reconciled to him by the mediation of Henry Count of Henneberg Charlemagne honored Witikind with the quality of Duke and Aribo Beranger with that of Count of Ascania Ballenstet and Hircinia to them and their posterity When they were dead the Descendents of that House became Christians and the Emperor was Godfather to Charles Father to Poppo who took to wife Syndovine daughter to Lewis the Debonaire Emperor and King of France from whom all the princes of this House are propagated P. This indeed is a great alliance but tell me how they came to be Dukes of Saxony and Marquisses of Brandenbourg G. Otho the Great Count of Ascania Ballenstet and Wolpe having married Hileta daughter to Magnus Duke of Saxony had by her Albertus Vrsus who by the favour of the Emperor Conrade III. was made Marquiss and Elector of Brandenbourg the House of Stade being extinguished which had enjoyed that Marquisate a long time A little after Henry Leo Duke of Saxony and Brunswick having disobliged the Emperor Frederick Barbarossa was degraded from his Dignity and the same given to Bernard son to Albertus Vrsus in the Diet of Wirsbourg 1169. which dignity continued in his Family till the year 1423. as that of Marquiss of Brandenbourg did till 1417. P. Do not Princes offend against the maximes of true Politicks when they make their Subjects too great G. Theodosius Duke of Bragansa and the richest Lord in Portugal being dissatisfied with Philip III. his Soverain because he would not suffer the Duke to walk equal by his side absented himself from Court and the Kings servants foreseeing what danger there might be to let a person go away discontented that had so great an estate and authority in a Kingdom full of bad humours entreated his Majesty to satisfie him before he returned from Castile The King commanded he should be brought to him the Duke came and being at Court the King with an extraordinary sweetness said to him Pedid duque Ask what you would have my Lord the Duke whose heart was swelled up with his riches answered Senor los mayores de vnestra Majestad que tanbien han sido los mios hizierontantas mercedes a mi casa que no me queda nada que pedir Sir your Majesties Ancestors who were mine
also have bestowed so many favours and bounties upon my House that there remains nothing for me to ask Every body was surprized at this discourse For although it be honorable for the Sea to communicate it self through the rivers and for the Soverain to aggrandize his best deserving Subjects yet the Sea ought not to cover all the earth nor the King to diffuse his Royal graces too prodigally upon a Subject Otherwise the rivers will become Sea and the servant Master which cannot but prove very prejudicial As then the Planets would have but little regard to the Sun if they had no need of his light nor the servant to his Master if he could do him no more good So Great men ought to be very circumspect in the distribution of their favours if they would not lose that honour and respect which their Inferiors give them P. There are few Houses in Germany that have so long possessed two Secular Electorships at a time as this hath done Let us see how it lost them G. Otho and Bernard sons to Albertus Vrsus divided this House into two Branches The first was Elector of Brandenbourg and the latter of Saxony who fixed himself at Wittemberg and took for his principal distinctive Coat a Bend Fleury Vert on a Field Barry or and Sable There have been 13. Electors of Brandenbourg descended from Otho whereof the last was Iohn IV. of that name From Bernard there came in a direct Male line the Dukes of Lower Saxony and the Princes of Anhalt the first by the way of Albert I. of that name and Helen daughter to the Emperor Otho IV. and the second by the way of Henry to whom the Emperor Frederick Barbarossa gave the title of Prince of Anhalt There have been 8. Electors of Saxony of this Family The last was Albert II. after whom the Emperor Sigismond preferred Frederick the Warlike Marquis of Misnia before Erick V. Alberts Cousin and lawful Successor to teach us that all things under the Sun are flitting and transitory and that the greatest Houses may be humbled and brought low P. Hath a Soverain any power to take Principalities from one House and transfer them unto another G. A King gives account of his actions to none but God and can do almost all that he will he ought nevertheless to act equitably and not to plunge men of courage into despair then which nothing is more dangerous They that have lost their estate think they have nothing more to lose and are capable of making the greatest repent of the wrongs they have done them The Soverain then may take back the benefits he bestowed when he that received them is become altogether unworthy of them But before he come to that extremity he should endeavour to reduce them unto their duty and having tryed all fair means he must be very careful that he do not faintly and loosely execute the resolutions that he hath generously taken nor rashly undertake a great action which prudence will afterwards perswade him to abandon A Prince should think seriously of a thing before he enters upon it but having begun he should carry it through For there is nothing so repugnant to the of authority Kings as to act by halves nor any thing that so much encourages Subjects to Rebellion as to see that their Masters are afraid of them P. Since the death of Francis Albert who was slain by General Torstenson in Silesia I hear but little speech of these Dukes which makes me conjecture there are but few of them left G. Though Francis II. had ten sons six whereof were married yet there remaine but Iulius Henry Francis Charles and Francis Henry brethren all without hopes of having children and one son of Iulius Henry called Francis Herman who probably will have but few having married his Cousin who is exceeding weak and of a stature to bear few or no children This Prince is at present in the service of the King of Sweden against Poland P. It were great pity that a House so ancient and so illustrious should totally fail but if that do come to pass who will be the heir of it G. The Princes of Anhalt as we have seen come from the same source besides which right they have that of Confraternity Now this House is one of the most numerous in the Empire and because it is equally divided amongst many the Princes are not of the richest Ioachim Ernest who was the only person left of the Family dyed at 50. years of age A. D. 1566. and had 16. children of whom Anne Mary was married to Ioachim Frederick Duke of Lignitz Elizabeth to Ioachim George Elector of Brandenbourg Sibyll to Frederick Duke of Wirtemberg Agnes Hedwig to Augustus Elector of Saxony and after his death to Iohn the younger Duke of Holstein Dorothy Mary to Iohn Duke of Saxon-Weimar and Anne Sophia to Gunther Albert Count of Schurtzebourg The sons divided the Principality into four equal shares because Augustus said he would be content with a Pension for his life not intending to marry But at last upon second thoughts he came back into Germany where he married Sibyll Countess of Solmes and his brethren chose rather to give him a part of the land then pay him a Pension So Iohn George had Dissau Christian resided at Berembourg Augustus fixt his abode at Pleskau Rodolph at Zerbst and Lewis at Cotheim and every one them hath children P. This way of sharing may bring their House to a very weak condition But how do they govern their Estate G. Being all of equal authority and one having no power or command over the lands of another they submit to the eldest of the Family who hath the direction of affairs calls the Princes together when there is need of having their advice upon any matter of importance And as they have but one voice in the Diets so one of them represents all the rest there To conclude these Princes are commonly brave learned active bold courteous and obliging The two Christians of Berembourg father and son have born arms with honour Augustus hath extracted Soverain remedies out of Chymistry and Lewis hath established the society of great Wits or the Fructifying Company whereinto there are at this time admitted and enrolled above 20. Princes and five or 600. Lords Gentlemen or Doctors and other persons of knowledge P. There is much talk of this Society and I have not yet learnt what is the principal aim and intent of it G. This Prince having travelled through all Europe and seen that France and Italy are full of excellent books in the language of the Countrey whereby Ladies and Great men who by reason of their weighty employments cannot have leisure to learn Forain Languages have the means to be instructed in all that concerns them was desirous to introduce the same advantage into Germany and hath succeeded so prosperously in his design that now the Virtuosi of our Countrey cultivate their Mother-tongue enrich and adorn
that a Christian is less bound to make good his word then a Heathen or that keeping faith should be thought convenient among all other Nations and inconvenient to those that profess the Faith as if the People that are enlightned by the brightness of the Gospel ought to be less just then those that are immerst and mudded in the darkness of error and idolatry P. You conclude then that it is requisite to keep faith even with Infidels and Heretiques and I am of the same opinion And in very truth a Prince that should have Subjects of a Religion which would teach the contrary could have no confidence in them no more then they in him if he had no regard to keep his word with them upon pretense that he believed them Heretiques But let us turn into our Road again G. Constance having shewn us the inconstancy of humane promises hath drawn us a little out of our way yet it is no hard matter to strike into it again Ferdinand Count Palatine of the Rhine Duke of Bavaria and Elector of Collen held the Bishopricks of Hildesheim Paderborne Verden Munster and Liege all together by means whereof he might have given himself much ease and enjoyed his pleasure if the War had not engaged him in great disquiet and excessive expenses The Jesuits have heretofore told me that the two first of these Bishopricks had a miraculous foundation after this manner while Lewis the Debouaire was at Hildesheim it snowed so much all night that on the morrow the snow was a foot deep every where except in the place where the Cathedral Church was afterwards built And Charlemagne desiring to encamp on that ground where Paderborne stands wherein there was want of water the first pin that was struck into the earth to fasten his Pavillion gave issue to a plentiful spring that drives some water-mills Upon which source the Emperor caused the Church to be built and endowed it with a Revenue necessary for the maintenance of a Bishop Liege is known to all those that have read the History of Charles the Brave Duke of Burgundy who lay very heavy upon it at divers times and upon sundry occasions This Bishoprick and that of Hildesheim are still in the possession of the Elector of Collen but Verden and Minden were Secularized P. I knew before that those two Bishopricks were given to the King of Sweden and the Elector of Brandenbourg Tell me something of Munster G. That City is of special note because its Bishop is the Head of the Circle of Westphalia and because it was the place of the Assembly wherein many Bishopricks altered their property but much more for having been the seat of John of Leyden that petty King and seditious Anabaptist who for some years carried the Sceptre and Ball for marks of his Royalty At last he was besieged taken and put on the top of a Steeple in an iron Cage where he was eaten up by flyes and wasps together with two of his companions who were placed a little lower after they had been carried in triumph and mockery unto several Princes That punishment fit for their Rebellion and other crimes of theirs was inflicted upon them A. D. 1536. P. You said ere whiles that Ferdinand Archbishop of Collen held many Bishopricks together and I would willingly know whether the Church of Rome permit one single person to have so many Benefices every one requiring residence G. The Canon Law is directly against plurality of Benefices and according to the doctrine of the Casuists just as Christians are forbidden to have many wives at one time so are Priests to have many such Benefices together For where the Scripture ordains that a Bishop should be the husband of one wife they say it is meant of one Bishoprick But the Pope doth easily dispense when the Bishop is of high extraction and at this time there are some great Lords that hold more then two of the best Bishopricks in Germany P. I wonder Dispensations are granted in that case seeing by how much the Prelate is of greater condition by so much is he the better enabled to support his Dignity with the estate of his House But the Pope is to answer for those Dispensations and it may be he that is subject to no Law here will find himself much to seek when he is to give an account of his actions before the Tribunal of a Judge that hath no respect to Mitres and shows no more favour to the great then to the little to the rich then to the poor Let us go on to the Bishopricks that remain G. Being I have no intention to speak of those that lye within the Hereditary Countreys of the House of Austria because they sit not in the Diets of the Empire it remains only that we say something concerning those of Frisinguen Brix Basile and Trent The first is possessed by Albert Sigismond son to Albert brother to the late Maximilian Elector of Bavaria The second is so ancient that they say it hath had Bishops ever since the year of Our Lord 360. The third hath no power over the City and the Bishop hath his seat and residence at Poirentrus The last is known throughout all Christendom by reason of the Council which was held there under five Popes and brought to an end under Pius IV. A. D. 1563. In that Council some conclusions passed which strike at the Liberties and Priviledges of the most Christian King the Spaniards also disputed the precedence with him which the Kings of France had enjoyed till that time without contest and enjoy it still in despite of their adversary You may here remark that Gabriel Bucelin a Monk of Weingart having said that Henry of Bourbon is Bishop of Metz makes a great exclamation thereupon that France hath bestowed a Bishoprick upon a Natural son of King Henry IV. yet speaks not a word of the abuses committed in other places only as I think because the French King hath the nomination of the great Benefices of his Kingdom but that Monk doth not take notice that there be more learned and pious Prelates in France then in all Christendom besides P. Is there never an Ecclesiastical Prince in Germany that is not a Bishop G. The Great Master of the Teutonick Order the Abbots of Fulda Hirsesfeld Murbach Kempten Corbay Prum Stabel and Luders the Grand Prior of Malta the Provosts of Eluang and Beressolagaden are Princes and have place in the Diets of the Empire the first immediately after the Archbishop of Saltzbourg and the rest after the Bishops P. Tell me what you know of these Princes G. The Knights Templers and of St. John having fought prosperously against the Infidels raised an emulation in some German Gentlemen who waited upon the Emperor Frederick I. in his expedition to the Holy Land to take the Croisado and because they were installed in the Church and Hospital of St. Mary at Ierusalem they were called Marianites Their Order differed nothing from
commended Tell me how the Prelates in these times obtain their Beneficeâ— G. There are two ways of creating Prelates in Germany the one is called Election and the other Postulation When the Chapter being Canonically assembled chooses one of the members of their Body to be the Head thereof or at least two thirds of the Canons give him their voices he is made Archbishop or Bishop by Election And if the same Canons think it fit to raise unto that Dignity some Prince or Prelate that is not of their Body they call that kind of proceeding Postulation Both these are lawful and the only practised ways in the Empire And it is all I had to tell you concerning the Ecclesiastical persons of Germany which may suffice you unless you desire to know whether they do homage to the Emperor P. I question not but Church-men receive their Fiefs from the Emperor and pay him homage for their Principalities but I would gladly know whether they be more strictly tyed to the Emperor or to the Pope and which side they would take in case his Holiness should make War upon the Empire G. The Holy Scripture teaches us that no man can serve two Masters and I believe the Churchmen of Germany would find the experieace of it if the Emperor and the Pope should have any quarrel or controversie For they are obliged to the Pope as Priests and Prelates and to the Emperor as Feudataries of the Empire They that prefer the Grandeur of Rome before that of Germany would forsake the Emperor and they that undervalue the fulminations of the Vatican would bear up the interest of the Empire against the Pope Now if I durst tell you my thoughts I do verily believe that of ten there would hardly be found one that would depart from the Popes interest P. I think so too and hold it for certain that Popes have brought down the authority of Soverains by the help of Churchmen G. That may well be for the bond of Religion holds men more strongly then any other duty And though wise men distinguish between the true zeal and the capricious humour of Popes yet the greatest part of Christians being perswaded that S. Peter cannot have any unjust pretension doth turn to his side without knowing at what he aims and whether it be by simplicity or malice the Priests have often brought misery upon their Countrey to bring their Princes under the Pope not considering that Soverain estates depend of none but God and that all Churchmen not excepting the Pope himself owe obedience unto their Princes P. The Doctrine of the Popes is absolutely contrary to yours The Holy Father may judge of all without being subject to the judgement of any body being the Sun of the earth and the Emperor but the Moon and therefore 6645. times bigger then he and having power to free the Subjects of another from the Oath they have taken to obey him with how much more reason may he exempt and withdraw himself from the obedience of every other Prince G. Flatterers give that power to Popes who abusing the same have oftentimes been the cause of great Rebellions But the people of this age are not so simple as those of former times who believing these fables forsook their Kings and brutishly spilt the blood of their Countreymen Christians now a dayes turn the eyes of their understanding upon the Primitive Church and see it evidently there that Popes were not alwayes so potent as they are now and indeed that they ought not to be so seeing they style themselves Lieutenants to Christ and Successors to S. Peter the first of whom did alwayes protest that his Kingdom was not of this World and the other teacheth us as well as S Paul that every soul should be subject to the Higher Powers From which words S. Bernard concludes that Popes ought to be subject to Princes P. Many things should be that are not But let us speak no more of the Pope or of his power Let us if you please see how those that preach against him obey their Princes and how Church-matters are administred amongst the Lutherans and the Calvinists in Germany G. It is most certain that the Reformation of Luther and Calvin makes Church-men subject to the Prince under whom they live It is nevertheless to be observed that Protestant Princes do not submit Ecclesiastical affairs to every Tribunal but they have each of them a Consistory where those matters are decided when they are of importance P. Have the Lutherans any Bishops to whom Priests are subject G. In Sweden and Denmark where both Kings and People received the Reformation of Luther they observe almost the same order as in the Church of Rome and persons constituted in Ecclesiastical Dignities have power to prescribe rules to others In Germany where the Lutheran Bishops are as absolute as the Secular Princes they have the right of commanding the Priests of their Diocese to do their duty The other Princes having in their Dominions Deacons Priests particular and general Superintendents do also oblige the inferior Clergy to give an account of their doctrine and lives to their Superiors and to receive their correction These Superintendents visit their Diocese once a year and make an exact enquiry into the Doctrine and mannen of all the Pastors under their inspection P. And have these Superintendents also any Superior G. G. No man is exempted from an obligation to obey the Laws and the greatest of the Clergy have a Superior who can and ought to chastise them when they commit any scandalous offence The complaints that are made against the lowest Priests being come to the Superintendents ear he makes inquisition thereinto and reports it to the Consistory where the ancientest or the most worthy Prelate of the Principality doth usually preside and that Consistory fortified by the power and authority of the Prince ordains what is just and reasonable imprisoning or degrading the offender when they think it necessary Briefly those Consistories are alwayes vigilant for the maintenance of Religion the enlargement of the Kingdom of Christ the peace of Consciences the good of the People and the upholding of Ecclesiastical Discipline P. Do all the Evangelique Lords so they term Lutherans observe the same order in their Territories G. When the errors that had slipt into the Church obliged Princes to reform within their own Dominions every one made choice of one or more personages of great piety and eminent learning by whose advice he framed and set up that order which he would have to take place in the Churches of his Countrey In the Dutchy of Wirtemberg where the Reformation was introduced by Duke Christopher a Prince of incomparable wisdom the Principality is divided into six Dioceses and for every one of them there is a Prelate called Superintendent General who is inspector thereof Those six Prelates have many special and particular ones under them and over them the Provost of Montgarat who presides in the
Mares which he had in his grounds dyed without children lawfully begotten in the year 1656. at least if I may believe the Gazette where I read it though some men do not agree to it The King of Denmark and the Duke of Holstein inherited his Counties Iohn Prince of Anhalt the Lordship of Iever and Antony Count of Oldenbourg his natural son all the rest of his lands Those of Erbach find their original in the affection which a daughter of Charlemagnes bore to a Gentleman in her Fathers Court who being recommended by his own merit as much as he was favoured by the generosity of Charles had the honour to marry her after he had had that of being carried upon her back through the Court of the Palace The Counts of Hanau have as large an estate as a great Prince and in that a Justice from which their Subjects cannot appeal And having often both given and taken daughters to and from the best Houses of the Empire they have been so happy as to see a noble Lady of their family steer the State of Hesse and bring it succesfully into the Port during the most dreadful storm that ever blew upon the Empire for many ages P. You pass many Houses over in silence G. Those of which I say nothing are unknown to me The Counts of Helfenstein having flourished above a thousand years expired some years since Those of Leininguen judge their Subjects causes without any Appeal The House of Hohenlohe would be very mighty if it had not divided its lands into many portions The Lords thereof are naturally Souldiers brave well made both in body and mind and glorious as well through their own merit as for that of their Ancestors The Barons of Limbourg whom all Writers place amongst the Counts have a title of Semperfrey always free that no body bears but they They are so ancient that they know not their own beginning and so well known in Germany that their priviledge of being Vicars to the King of Bohemia Great Cup-bearer of the Empire is obvious to every one They of Mansfeld are of different Religions One of the Catholiques is Governor of Raab in Hungary the other is Master of the Horse to the Emperor Of the Lutherans Iohn George is travelling to enable himself to answer the hopes which hâ—s Countrey conceives of his vertue This County is plentiful in Copper and other Minerals and famous for many things but especially for Eiseliben where Doctor Luther was born in the year 1484. and dyed there 63. years after The Counts of Montfort have nothing common with those in France but the name they are certainly very noble very ancient and very vertuous P. If you say nothing of the Counts of Ottinguen and of the Rhingraves I will tell you what I know of them G. I speak of the Counts in an Alphabetical method not always suitable to their merit otherwise many should have come behind those Houses so abounding in extraordinary personages That of Ottinguen is divided into two principal Branches That of Waldenstein is Catholique that of Ottinguen Lutheran and both perfectly well allied but specially Ieachim Ernest who having already had one Countess of Solmes and another of Hehenlobe is in the last place married to a Princess Palatine and had of the two former besides many sweet children Sophia Margaret and Mary Dorothy Sophia Princesses whose graces and endowments of body and mind have acquired to the first the chast love and conjugal bed of Albert Marquiss of Brandenbourg of Anspach to the second that of Eberhard Duke of Wirtemberg and to the Father two Sons-in-law equal in Grandeur piety and magnificence The Rhingraves have furnished matter to so many Histories ancient and modern that no body is a stranger to their vertue nobility and generosity The Counts of Schwartzbourg are great in riches vertue and alliances When I passed through their Countrey Clara Dutchess of Brunswick and Sophia Agnes Princess of Anhalt were widows to two Lords of that House and Antony Gunther had a Princess Palatine Many believe the Counts of Solmes are issued out of those of Nassau They are not rich but you will meet with few Lords so well allyed Frederick Henry Prince of Orange the honour of the Captains of our age had the generous Amelia Joachim Ernest Marquis of Brandenbourg had the Phenix of beauty and chastity Sophia Frederick Marquis of Dourlach the incomparable Eleonor Augustus Prince of Anhalt the pious Sibyll Vlrick Duke of Wirtemberg the amiable Sophia Dorothy Maurice Landgrave of Hesse the fair Agnes and Ernest his son hath at this time Mary Eleonor all Countesses of Solmes From whence we may conclude that this House is fruitful in beautiful and vertuous Ladies P. I would willingly have heard a word of the Counts of Salme and Stolberg but if you find it difficult pass on to the consideration of the Barons of the Empire G. The Counts of Salme were raised to the rank of Princes though their lands be held of the Duke of Lorraine They are Rhingraves and all the Rhingraves bear the name and Arms of Salme They of Stolberg are inferior to none either in antiquity of Nobility or greatness of Alliances or priviledges They coyn money both of gold and silver and bear for their Arms a Stag Sable because one of the ancient Counts of that House giving an entertainment of hunting to the Emperor Conrade of Franconia a black Stag was taken and the Emperor would transmit the memory thereof to posterity by that change of Arms. As to the Barons you ought to know that they who are Estates of the Empire do hardly differ from the Counts but in name In all things else they are equal they marry their daughters they are in the same Classe at the Diets of the Empire they give their Suffrages there after the same manner and enjoy the same immunities lastly they are both alike styled Illustrious P. Methinks we have a great many Barons in Germany G. There are but few Barons of the Empire To be such an one it is necessary to be Matriculated and contribute to the necessities of the State which belongs not to any one of those whom the Emperor creates upon a new score in his hereditary Countreys how rich and potent soever they be And for that cause they have neither voice nor place in the Assemblies of the Empire Many of the ancient Barons have taken the quality of Count those which remain are Creange Fleckenstein Fugger Hohengeroldseck Konigseck Limbourg Maxelrein Perlestein Plaven Rapolstein Schombourg Scheuk of Tautemberg Wolfenstein Winemberg Walbot and it may be some others that are not come to my knowledge Part of those of Creange are Counts but the others are not inferior to them being allyed even to Princes and very near to the Houses of Nassau and the Rhingraves They of Fleckenstein have signalized themselves in the last War where they got honour and served in the quality of Generals The Fuggers are not
very ancient but remarkable for vertue and for their priviledge of Soverain Justice upon their Lands The Barons or Counts of Rapolstein who are otherwise called Ribaupierre were Dukes of Spoleto and having lived many ages with splendor and appeared at several Turnaments are now reduced to John Iames to whom I wish issue male for the preservation of his illustrious House which will otherwise end in him All the rest are unknown to me P. It is something to be Baron of the Empire in regard of the place they have in the Assemblies otherwise I think there is but little difference between one Baron and another G. They that bear the same title are not alwayes of the same condition One who hath been declared Doctor in an University where no man is received but he that hath given proof of his learning is to be preferred before him who hath gotten Letters in another University for a piece of money And so it is in this matter They that are Barons by merit and are allyed to great Families for many generations are and ought to be preferred before those that have not the like advantages Otherwise I do not think that for having place in the Diets one is much to be preferred before another that is equal in vertue merit and antiquity P. I am of your opinion But from whence comes the word Baron G. I think it was derived from the Latin Vir for as Baron signifies a personage illustrious for virtue and birth so also the Latin word Vir signifies a man separate and distinct from the vulgar by his Virtue Now this title hath been diversly taken according to the diversity of times and places By the Barons were anciently understood in France all the Subjects that held immediately of the King and so the word comprehended Dukes Counts and other Lords indifferently This opinion may be verified out of Aymonius and some other Historians who sometimes bring in the King speakto the Lords his followers and when he would exhort them to some generous action begining with these words My Barons The Spaniards speaking of some illustrious persons call them Varones or Barones And therefore Lewis de Camoes in his description of the Conquest of the Indies by the Portugneses begins his Poem in this manner As armas e os Varâ—nes assinalados The Italians only do sometimes take the word Baron for a beggarly fellow P. Have not the Italians Barons also amongst them G. Yes more then Baronies and it may be they are beggars because there are so many of them However it be Barons are every where reckoned above the lowest rate and rank of Nobility except by abuse some one have been raised to that degree who was not a Gentleman before In which case I think the ancient Nobility ought not to give him place nor he to pretend to it because the Letters Patent which a Secretary of the Emperor puts into a piece of Parchment are not of such validity as to make those worthy of that rank who are obnoxious to such notable defects And though the Emperor himself should have commanded his Letters to be dispatched yet were it not to be presumed that he intended to raise an Upstart above him that brought the right of precedence from his mothers womb P. There is not the meanest Baron but thinks himself more then the highest Gentleman G. Usually men flatter themselves and set a greater value upon themselves then they really deserve Even Philosophers take their own measures amiss and the greatest Saints had need to pray earnestly and say from their heart Lord make me to know both my self and Thee that knowing my self I may be humble and knowing Thee I may magnifie thy Name Grant that we may all know our selves banish out of our hearts that common vain pretense to place and precedence teach us to neglect that honour which shines not but in the smoke of vanity Certainly it troubles Germany more then any other Countrey in Europe The end of the Seventh Dialogue Dialogue VIII Of the Knights the Gentlemen the Turnaments and the Cities of the Empire P. TO see the title of this Dialogue one would judge that you put a difference between the Knight and the Gentleman and yet throughout all Germany the Nobility goes under the name of Knighthood and the Gentlemen writing in Latin style themselves Equites that is Knights G. Though German Gentlemen be called Equites in Latin yet it is certain there is difference between the Knight and the Gentleman For first the Knight hath been alwayes more priviledged then the Gentleman 2. The chance of birth makes the Gentleman without his contributing any thing to it but worth and valour raises the Knight to that degree of honour 3. Princes and Lords do not seek for the title of a Gentleman as they do very earnestly for that of a Knight And 4. the Gentleman is born so the Knight comes to be so that is a Gentleman begets a Gentleman but a Knight begets not a Knight P. I have heard say that the sons of great Princes are Knights from their cradle which if it be so it may be said that a Knight begets a Knight G. I know the French say that the sons of their Kings are Knights in the very moment of their birth Nevertheless Lewis XI received the Order of Knighthood by the hand of Philip Duke of Burgundy the day of his Inauguration the 16. August 1461. Francis I. before the Bettel of Marignan September 17. 1515. received the same honour from Peter Bayard a Gentleman of Dauphine who for his valour was surnamed the Knight without reproach And when William Count of Holland was chosen King of the Romans he would be created Knight before he received the Crown Whereby it appears that some great Princes thought they were not born Knights And though I should allow that the sons of Kings are so from their Cradle it is certain that others are not so seeing Princes themselves do not assume that quality if they have not solemnly received that honour P. I know that commonly they that are called Knights are associated into some Order Regular or Secular but I do not know the difference between those Orders G. The Regular Orders have been approved by the Pope under some Rule and the Secular have been instituted by some other Prince The former oblige their Knights to the vows of poverty chastity and obedience the other only to endeavour and procure the honour and advantage of the Head of their Order Now as men are received into the number of Knights for their merit or for the hope which he that bestows that honour hath that the person admitted will do worthy actions so a Knight forfeits and becomes deprived of the same honour for the enormous crimes he commits contrary to the expectation of him that received him into the Fellowship of the Order P. All Knights are not received after the same manner nor degraded for the same offence G.
Into the greatest part of Regular Orders they admit Gentlemen that have attained to the age of 18. years and consequently before they have given any proof of their merit and they are degraded for murders basely committed by lying in ambush or other crimes unworthy of such persons But Kings admit none into their Orders but those that have performed good and considerable services and for that cause a man is oftentimes well in years before he can obtain that honour of which also he cannot be deprived but for High Treason Divine or Humane or for notorious cowardize as having run away from his Colours and forsaken his Chief P. If it be so there is less honour in being admitted into a Regular then into a Secular Order G. I do really think so because for the obtaining of the latter it is requisite that a man joyn his own vertue unto that of his Ancestors And the Order which makes him that is admitted into it Companion of a Soverain and familiar with his King hath doubtless something more eminent in it then that which only makes him brother and Companion of certain Gentlemen P. I would willingly know why so many Orders of Knighthood have been instituted G. Necessity was the first and principal cause of all those Orders The Regulars began after Godfrey of Boullion had taken Ierusalem when some valiant Gentlemen having voluntarily undertaken the defence of the oppressed the maintenance of Hospitals the care of Pilgrims and the securing of the ways Popes gave them priviledges and bestowed honours upon them to draw on others to the same profession Which is honourable to the Church of Rome as well for the zeal which Catholiques show in visiting the Holy places as because all the Nobility also that embraces a Rule becomes subject to the Pope P. Had Kings the same design G. Conquerors made Souldiers willing to follow them by sharing the fruit of their Conquests with them and when their Successors had not estate enough to reward all the glorious actions and eminent services which Gentlemen did for them being perswaded that a man of courage values nothing comparably to honours which distinguish him from other men they invented those Orders which without exhausting their Treasure would gain them the Flower of their Subjects and enflame all others with an extreme desire to make themselves worthy of the same honour I think it was for that reason that anciently they created Knights just before the Battel to make them engage more resolutely or presently after it to recompense those that had the greatest hand in the victory P. I would know whether there be many Knights in Germany G. There be Knights of four sorts who ought to be Princes Lords or Gentlemen The Emperor dubs some by touching them lightly upon the shoulder with a naked sword and saying to them Esto miles Dei Sancti Stephani Be a Souldier of God and of St. Stephen and those wear no Collar or other mark to distinguish them from other Gentlemen The Kings of Spain England and Denmark do also send their Order to such Lords as they set most value upon The first wear the Golden Fleece the second the Garter and the third the Elephant enamelled with white and enchased with a Cross of five great Diamonds All the other Knights are of the Military Orders of Prussia or Malta The former have the Black Cross and are named Teutoniques the latter wear a white one and are called Knights Hospitallers of St. Iohn of Ierusalem Heretofore all of the last Order were Catholiques but there are some of them now that are not so and possess the Commanderies which the Protestant Princes have not incorporated into their Demesnes But if you happen to see any German Suisse or Hollander wearing the Collar of the Order of St. Michael you may take notice that the most Christian King sometimes confers the honour of that Order upon those that have done him some acceptable service P. Do all Emperors and Kings of the Romans make Knights G. If they do not at least they may all do so And at the Coronation of Charles V. there was such an abuse that all those that would have that honour received it although they were not Gentlemen In our days it hath not been so abused For when the last Ferdinand was crowned at Ratisbon he created 28. Knights the greatest part of them very illustrious both by their birth and merit P. Now I see what difference there is between a Knight and a Cavalier I pray discourse something of the Nobility G. There are Countreys in Europe where the Nobility is distinguished into Princes Lords and Gentlemen who all together make one part of the State and are the Kings right arm the support of his Crown and the prop of his authority It is not so in Germany where the Princes nay the poorest Lords would take it for an affront to be called Gentlemen Who as we have seen before are absolutely separated from the Body of the Nobility and have their interest apart P. I know already that the Princes are Estates of the Empire and have no communion with the Nobility But I would willingly know whether all the Gentlemen of Germany make one Body whether they be equal in priviledges and whether they mutually assist one another in their necessities G. The Nobility of Germany is of two sorts One Immediate acknowledging none but the Emperor the other Mediate that acknowledges the Emperor as Head of the Empire yet without being exempt from the jurisdiction of another Prince This latter hath not so much liberty as the former but is for all that excellent in its degree there being never a Gentleman in Germany that doth not prefer a poor Gentlewoman before a rich Burgers daughter and wonders at the mixture of different qualities used in other places But this Body being united only by the ligaments of name and condition there is little or no help to be expected from one to another P. Is the Nobility that depends upon Princes equally priviledged through all the Empire G. Nobility being a quality acquired by vertuous actions and eminent services which some Houses have performed to the Prince and State it is impossible but that there should be some Houses more Noble and better priviledged then others And although fortune should have more influence then merit upon the dispensing of those qualities yet the same judgement were still to be made because Soverains are subject to their passions rewarding more bountifully and raising higher some of their servants then others It happens also that one Prince hath occasion to make use of his Nobility more often then another and receiving more considerable services from them he doth also recompense them with greater and more signal benefits P. There is no doubt but merit or favour hath made the difference which is found between those Houses that hold in Fee of a particular Prince But I am perswaded that all the Nobility immediately subject
appearance there then his fellow it hapned at the three and twentieth Turnament which was held at Darmstadt in the year 1403. that the Gentlemen of Franconia and those of Hesse drew so much blood upon one another that there remained dead upon the place seventeen of the former and nine of the latter And yet some have been celebrated since but either that jealousie or the wars which suffer not men to think on such pastimes or other causes to me unknown have absolutely banisht those Exercises by means whereof the Nobility was powerfully attracted to vertue and obliged to accomplish and perfect themselves in all kind of Chivalry P. I believe that as none but Illustrious or Noble persons entred into those Turnaments the number also of the Knights and Squires was limited G. They confined the number of parties allowed to appear for fear it might otherwise grow too great and to avoid the confusion which would arise from too many Masters and Servants For that cause and in regard every mans charges were born there besides that they would admit no new Nobility no Bastard no Usurer none guilty of High Treason no Oppressor of Widows and Orphans none born of Parents whereof one was of base extraction and ignoble no Heretique Murderer Traytor no Coward that had run away from the Battel nor indiscreet person that had given offence to Ladies by word or deed they did also refuse to admit more then one of the same Family at a time Princes came into the Lists with four Squires apiece Counts and Barons with three a Knight with two and a Gentleman with one P. It may be those Exercises will be set up again in their pristine honour and in case that should come to pass I would gladly know what a man should do to be admitted thereunto and how he ought to behave himself being come into the Lists G. The place and hour for the Turnament being resolved they that had a desire to break a Lance there came thither at the time appointed and went to the Presidents Lodging to have their names written down which was done in the presence of three Heralds to whom the Champion delivered his Helmet and Sword and after he had been at Confession he presented himself in the Lists with one two three or four Squires according to the quality of the persons The horses of the Combatants were to be without fault or exception the Caparisons and furniture such as to give no offence their Saddles without any extraordinary raising before or behind and all equal After which they performed all kind of exercises on horseback and when the Jousts were ended every man repaired to the President of his Nation to wait for the sentence of the Judges And he that had best deserved the Prize received it either from the hand of some Lady or from the Prince that gave it P. If the Emperor should ever have a desire to see the skill and sufficiency of his Nobility in that way I would endeavour to make one there and though that should never come to pass I will howsoever take pains to make my self a good Horseman Now since we have discoursed enough concerning Turnaments tell me what you know of the Cities of the Empire G. All the Cities of Germany are either free or subject or partly free and partly subject Those of the first sort acknowledge none but the Emperor are Estates of the Empire and participate in the right of Soverainty the second depend upon Princes Lords and Gentlemen give respect to their Orders and obedience to their Justice the last are those which having been subject have obtained some priviledges from the Emperor from their Princes or by their swords And though they be almost Free yet have they neither voice nor place in the Assemblies nor do they quietly enjoy their pretended priviledges These Cities being rich and potent make bad use of their power endeavouring to shake off the yoke of obedience which they owe to their Masters to whom they give very little respect but try their uttermost to make themselves Imperial Cities Such are Brunswick Erfort and Embden which have evermore some matter or other of dispute the first with the Duke of Brunswick the second with the Elector of Mentz and Embden with the Princes of East-Friseland P. I imagine that the Cities belonging to Princes are neither so wealthy nor so fair as the Imperial G. That rule doth not alwayes hold There are some Imperial Cities to he found of no great consequence as Fridberg Aalen Weiler Gueminde Biberac Dunkelspiel and several others on the the contrary there are divers Cities subject to Princes surpassing in beauty magnificent in buildings and considerable for riches as Munchen Ingolstadt Dresden Wirsbourg Mentz Magdebourg Bamberg Stutgards and Lunebourg but they have not the same right which those lesser places we last mentioned enjoy P. I have often heard say that the Cities of Germany are neither so ancient nor of so fair structure as in other Countreys G. Many good Antiquaries assure us that the Cities on the East-side of the Rhine were built about the time of the Emperor Henry I. but those very Authors say that the City of Trier is one of the Ancientest in Europe and that Strasbourg Wormes and Spire flourished before the time of Julius Caesar As for the beauty and number of Cities our Germany yields to no Province in Europe The Italians who for the most part undervalue all that is on the other side of the Alpes from them cannot deny us that prerogative anst John Botero confesses that for that matter we may give them fifteen and a bisque using these words to that purpose I Thedeschi avanzano di gran lungai Romani And I am sure that the Constable of Castille who to disgrace the greatness and magnificence of Paris told Mareschal d'Ornano that he had left behind him the fairest Cities in Christendom would have changed his opinion if he had seen Germany and been forced to acknowledge in his heart though according to the Spanish vapours he would not have exprest it with his mouth that there is nothing in Spain equal to Antwerp Amsterdam Hambourg Collen Nuremberg Strasbourg Erfort and Augsbourg P. If the Cities of Germany excell all others in beauty then they are inferior to them in nothing for Bocalini esteems them without comparison richer then those in other places when he saith that Laurence de Medicis going about to weigh them the balance wherein he had already weighed all the Estates of Christendom broke not being able to bear so great a burthen But I suppose the houses of Great men are not so embellished in Germany as in Forain Countreys G. I pray be of another mind for when you have seen all Europe you will confess that the Cities and Castles where the Princes and Prelates of Germany make their residence are so stately in buildings so delicious in gardens so artificial in Grots so abounding in Fountains flowers fruits and