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Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
city_n	country_n	great_a	time_n	6,961	4	3.2259	3	false

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A92287	The reasons of the Dissenting Brethren against the third proposition, concerning presbyterial government· Humbly presented.	Westminster Assembly; Goodwin, Thomas, 1600-1680.; Westminster Assembly (1643-1652). Answer of the Assembly of Divines unto the reasons of the seven Dissenting Brethren, against the proposition of divers congregations being united under one Presbyteriall government.	1645 (1645)	Wing R573; Thomason E27_14; ESTC R209981	37,798	45

be Churches erected in their proper dwellings is rationally supposable For in that persecution in Acts 8. 1. it is said that Paul persecuted Disciples in other places then at Hierusalem Acts 26. 10. Which things I also did at Hierusalem saies he and in other places at Damascus And also it is confirmed by this that upon the ceasing of Pauls persecution it is said Acts 9. 31. then had the Churches rest through Judea and Galilee and are said to be at rest in distinction from the persecution raised Chap. 8. 1. 3 Exception is that they in those Countries and times had often great Assemblies consisting of many thousands hearers at once that did and could heare Luke 12. 1. Christ preached to Myriads many thousands and Acts 13. 45. almost a whole City came to heare the word of God by Paul And at Charenton how many thousands may and do heare is well knowne and so in many places of England And Moses sometime spake in the eares of all the people and so Ezra Chapter 10. Verse 9. and 10. And 't is knowne by experience that as in hot Countries they may see as far againe through the purenesse of the aire so they may heare at a farre greater distance then in our colder Climate 4 Exception is that this being the first Church and whereof all the Apostles were the Officers those therefore that dwelt there would certainly abide together as one Church without parting or dividing even till they came to the utmost proportion that the constitution of a Church was capable of and so Maximum quod sic And continue together in one for the more united strength and glory of holding forth the name of Christ in one body united for the honour of Religion and communicating in Ordinances together 5 Exception is that they had during all this time of their multitudes untill the persecution of Paul arose the greatest freedome and liberty even to the utmost for the people magnified them Chap. 5. Verse 12. they had favour with all the people Chap. 2. Verse 47. Insomuch that although the Rulers fell upon two of them John and Peter yet they were enforced to let them go finding nothing how to punish them because of the people Chapter 4. 21. Besides that it was no new thing amongst the Jewes for Sects to have great multitudes to follow and cleave to them and to preach in any place as in Spaine and Italy and to baptize openly as John and Christ did Reasons and Answers to the Appendix added to the former Proofes viz. That the dispersion mentioned in Acts 8. 1. doth not simply prove such a scattering as that there might not remaine more Congregations then one in that Church Acts 9. 31. Acts 12. 24. Acts 21. 20. THus having shewed the multitudes not arising to that number but that they might meet in one now after the dispersion much lesse and to that end let the greatnesse of the Persecution be considered to demonstrate the greatnesse of this dispersion It s called not a Persecution only but a great Persecution both extensively and intensively for the extent of it to all sorts of persons entring into every house vers 3. and for the height of it it being to imprisonment even unto death Chap. 22. 4. Acts 26. 10. It is also called a making havock of the Church vers. 9. The object of this Persecution was not Preachers only but Christians of all sorts indifferently for it is said indefinitely to be upon the Church vers. 1. and vers. 3. It is call'd an entring into every house hayling men and women and in Chap. 26. Paul speaking of this very Persecution wherein he had a speciall hand sayes vers. 10. that hee imprisoned many of the Saints not Preachers only and ver. 9. his aime was promiscuously against the Name of Jesus and so any that professed his Name Unto this end compare the varying the expression used by the Holy Ghost when speaking of this Persecution and of another mentioned Acts 12. 1. there it is said Herod stretched forth his hand to vexe certaine of the Church but here it is against the Church in Jerusalem Men and women in every house and all except the Apostles the word {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} except there is to shew that none of the Apostles were scattered though the generality of others were if men guifted fled away then others also except we suppose the people more couragious to stay by it then the Teachers And whereas it is said that these that were dispersed went about preaching the word vers. 4. First It argueth not that Preachers only or chiefely were dispersed for as Calvin saith it comes in to shew what was the fruit of the dispersion and we may well suppose women and whole families to have been scattered abroad who yet preached not And secondly It was ordinary in those times for men that were not by Office Ministers occasionally to teach the word in private wayes of converse yea and otherwise And that is not call'd teaching which is by way of Sermon to a multitude for vers. 25. of this chap. Philip in private conference taught the Eunuch as Aquila and Priscilla taught Apollos and they are not called {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} as having an Office but {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} as referring to the act the work they did And that the word seemes to sound as if they made it their worke It may well be attributed to the zeale of those dayes to gaine Proselites and not to an Office committed to them they went not forth by mission but persecution And here the many Congregations are brought but to an it might be and the grand Proposition it selfe is but an it may be And how can it may be be proved by an it might be especially in such things as need have a strong foundation for matters upon which so great alterations are like to be made But it is said that it appeares that there were multitudes of beleevers there after that time by Acts 9. 31. Acts 12. 24. Acts 21. 20. First For Acts 9. 31. {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} signifies not ordinarily a great number made up but an increase Matth. 21. 12. 1 Pet. 1. 2. Grace be multiplied it is the same word not in number but in measure Againe they are the Churches of Judea Galilee and of Samaria But what is all this to prove that there were so many in the Church of Hierusalem as could not meet in one For Acts 21. 20. {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} how many thousands doth not argue it For first it was the Feast of Pentecost when Paul came now up to Hierusalem in Acts 20. 16. it is said of this journey that he ●asted if possible to be at Hierusalem upon the day of Pentecost When the Jewes out of all quarters came to Hierusalem and the great concourse that then would be there at the Feast moved him to

doctrinall Theses were the joynt declared and avowed Judgement and conclusions of these and so answereth to those other words in their letters It seemeth good unto us being with one accord c. Apostles and Elders thus met with one accord agreeing therein and particularly and unanimously so judging and therefore when James gives his judgement hee useth the same word {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} Verse 19. of this 15. Chap. This is my judgement which being voted and agreed upon by the rest they are called {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} Neither doth this argue any act of authoritie that the things here declared to bee observed are indifferent for some of them come under a morall consideration and all come under the case of offence Neither doth the language they commend those to them in sound of that Jurisdiction or government intended in the proposition for although they seeme to speake as guided infallibly in their resolution it seemed good to us and to the holy Ghost yet their expressions are carried so as to avoyd Jurisdiction those words To lay no other burthen if any must import this Jurisdiction but these words as Ludovicus de Dieu hath well observed are as they may bee taken passively therein agreeing with the Syriack translation It seemed good to and the holy Ghost that no other burthen bee laid on you that whereas these Teachers of the circumcision had gone about by their doctrine to bind the Law of Moses upon mens consciences and to put on them a burthen too heavy for them to beare as Peter speakes Vers 9. and had taught this to bee the commands of Christ and his Apostles and the judgement of the Church of Jerusalem They disclaime this and professe they would have no such burthen put upon them and that they gave these Teachers no such commandement that is never delivered or uttered any such Doctrine to bee commanded And if it bee taken actively yet the declaring it to bee the command of Christ is the imposition here intended for the same words are used of the Teachers who yet had not assumed by vertue of an Ecclesiasticall authority to impose these things but by way of Doctrine So Verse the tenth Why tempt you God to put a yoake upon the necke of the Disciples Vers 5. And it is well knowne that in the Scripture phrase to teach and to declare though by way of Doctrine and to presse mens consciences with things as the commands of God is said to bee a binding and imposing a burthen on them So of the Pharisees and these were of the sect of the Pharisees of whom and to whom that was spoken Verse 5. it is said Matth. 23. 4. that the Pharisees bind heavy burthens and grievous to bee borne and lay them on mens shoulders which is spoken but of a doctrinall declaring and pressing mens consciences with the rigour of the Law and this is so well knowne to bee the Language of the Jewes that it need not bee insisted on Neither doth it follow that if they may lay these burthens by way of Doctrine they may censure for the neglect of them for every Minister in his Sermon imposeth those burthens whilst they urge and declare these duties to men and yet have not power Ecclesiastically to censure them for though it being a command of Christ they could not but hold it forth as such and so urge it yet not by way of Jurisdiction but with these soft words which if you observe you doe well Lastly although these false Teachers had subverted their faith and against their owne light had avouched their Doctrine to bee the doctrine of the Apostles which deserved the highest censure being a sinne so scandalous yet they proceeded not to censure them by way of admonition or excommunication which are acts of government but onely do declare their sinne and errour and give their Judgement of it Whereas in the close of the proofe from the Church of Jerusalem for many Congregations to bee under one Presbyteriall government it is asserted whether these Congregations bee fixed or not fixed it is all one to the truth of the proposition this reason is offered against it There is this difference every Congregation having Elders fixed to it is a Church for the relation of Elders and Church is mutuall Acts 14. 23. They ordained Elders in every Church This relation of Elders to a Church is a speciall distinct relation to that Congregation of which they are Elders so as they are not related to other Congregations and these Congregations are Ecclesiae primae Churches formed up though uncompleat as being according to our Brethrens opinion members of a more generall Presbyteriall Church But if Congregations have no fixed Officers they are not Churches according to their Principles Now it makes a great difference as to the truth of the Proposition whether many Churches may bee under the government of one or whether many Congregations which to them are no Churches may bee under the government of one Whatsoever our Brethren shew of divers Congregations to bee under the government of a Church Presbyteriall yet they no where shew any one patterne or example in Scripture wherein many Churches were under the power of one nay nor where any one Church was under the power of another And lastly if there were many Congregations in Jerusalem having their Officers fixed to them and not in common then during the time before the dispersion the Apostles must bee those Officers that were thus fixedly disposed of to those severall Congregations some over one others over another as ordinary Elders now are Now suppose this number of Beleevers to have beene as many thousands as is argued at 10. or 12000. soules and these to bee divided into as many Congregations as might bee divided to twelve Apostles severally to watch over Or suppose the severall Congregations made up of 2000. which is an alotment small enough to bee set apart for the paines of two Apostles Hereupon great incongruitie doth follow that Apostles are brought to the state and condition and worke of Parish Ministers to whom yet it was committed and inseparably annexed to their Office yea and constituted it as Apostles to have the care of all Churches and if when the Churches were multiplyed and dispersed into severall Countries they were to have the care of them then much more when they were in one Citie Some of the writers against Episcopacie when those that write for it alledg the instance of James abiding at Jerusalem as the Bishop of that Church have judged it a debasing of the Apostolicall power to limit it to one Diocesan Church but this position doth debase all the Apostles at once much more it makes them not Bishops to many Churches but ordinary Elders in that one or two of them perhaps are over one single Church yea and which is yet more incredible if these Churches and their government were like to those under the Presbytery and no