to no purpose And this I take to be one knacke of his cunning that he prouided to make his Replie in such a forme as might dehort some frome the Reading because of the length thereof not agreinge with theyr greate businesse And amase other in reading because it cumbreth the memory with so many matters And gette some renoune and praise to his owne side thoughe there folowed no Reading because it wil be commonly beleued that I trow in makinge so many wordes he is not to seeking of an Answer And if he will not haue me to call it a knacke of his Cunning then surely will it be proued to be a Lacke of discretion so that he shall not escape iust reproche either for his craftines if he perceyued it either for his dulnesse if he did not consider it For the biggnesse of a boke is not reproueable if accordinge to the nature of the matter the handeling of it be proportioned But whosoeuer increaseth his worke aboue mesure by taking in that which is not agreable either he is to wise for the Simple by making them conceiue muche of that whiche is litle Or he is not wise enough in the iudgement of the Learned by puffinge that vp to a greate quantitie which would by reason be lesse in Sight and more in Substance But lete vs firste make our Obiection and also proue it and then afterwardes consyder whether it dothe argue a Craftines rather or a dullnes to be founde in M. Iewels Inuention I laye it then vnto your faulte that ye haue ouercharged your Booke with Common Places and Impertinent And because I woulde be mye selfe the better perceyued and you also thereby shoulde be directed the more Orderly to make your Answer I take your Common Places to be of two kindes The one consystethe of Thinges which we maye vse as well as you And to the vsynge of whiche you doe peeke an Occasion out of the Question it selfe though you neede not yet to vse it at all or els more Discretelye shoulde haue vsed it And these I call Common Places The other consisteth of suche Matters as we can not or maye not vse and whiche you also should at no tyme followe thoughe it be moste familiar with you And if at any other tyme you might yet in the case of these Articles whiche are proponed you had no occasion to vse them And these I cal digressions not because the foresayed places might not runne vnder that Title but because in them you may pretend some excuse and here you can bringe none To begyn therfore with your Common places you are surely no niggard of them Out it gothe vpon neuer so litle occasion that which you haue gathered and if none at all be expressely offered yet you will make one rather then not vtter your cunning Will you haue a fewe notes of them I could serue you with a hundred and odde gathered out of one halfe only of your boke and no more But these few which I shall recken may be sufficient bothe to proue my obiection true and cause you to amend that fault hereafter Iewel Pag. 15 Euery man ought to prepare himselfe before he come to God Iewel Pag. 25. The example of Christ must be folowed Iewel Pag. 28 The company of Communicantes was called Communio Iewel Pag. 28. The wicked Communicate togeather Iewel Pag. 45. Small faultes are not to be contemned Iewel Pag. 52. Heretikes haue alleaged Custome Iewel Pag. 66. Deceauers blase their doings by the names of famous men Iewel Pag. 89 The company of Priestes was greate in the old time Iewel Pag. 94 The people in old time did Communicate Iewel Pag. 101 We must be obedient to God Iewel Pag. 107 We must not hang vpon the authoritie of mortall men Iewel Pag. 111 Christes institution must be kept Iewel Pag. 118 Gods holye spirite bloweth where it thinketh good Iewel Pag. 127 The fewer places muste be expounded by the moe Iewel Pag. 131 The mysteries were kept in both kindes Iewel Pag. 141 Manye abuses haue bene about the mysteries Iewel Pag. 143 Hauing Gods woorde we want no authoritye Iewel Pag. 162 All the East spake not one tounge Iewel Pag. 167 Religion came not first from Rome Iewel Pag. 171 God loketh not for vtterance of voyce Iewel Pag. 181 The people of Hyppo spake Latin Iewel Pag. 204 Appeale is to be made to the Churche in doubtfull cases Iewel Pag. 210 Great profite in reading of Scriptures Iewel Pag. 216 Ignorance is the mother of errours Iewel Pag. 229 One Bishop must be in one City Iewel Pag. 230 Vniuersa Fraternitas the whole brotherhoode signifieth the companie within euerie seuerall and particular Diocese 241 Princes haue ben fauorable to Bishops Papa in old tyme signified Father and was geuen generallie to all Bishopes 242 The prerogatiue to sit before other is called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 259 In the old tymes men that stode in doubt sought vnto the best learned 263 The Bishopes of other Countries called the Bishope of Rome brother or felow 280 It is lawful for Bishopes to excōmunicat 281 Bishopes haue the alowing of the Electiō or consecration of Bishops 295 Euery great Metropolitane Citie within her owne Prouince may be honored with the Title of Mother Church 300 The Title Vniuersall hath bene geuen to some Bishoppes These be your Common places M. Iewell but these by the third part are not all that I doe finde in halfe your boke And if they were all yet they might haue occupied by very many partes lesse roome in your Booke then they doe What cause then why you dilated them so much Let vs come to one or two particulars That Christes Institution is to be kepte is one of your Common places An other is That the people of old tyme did Communicate with the Priest The first of these you speake muche for and allege to that purpose Iew. 25 S. Paul 1. Cor ▪ 11. Iew. 60 S. Hierom in 1. Cor. 11. Iew. 91 S. Matthe 26. Iew. 111 S. Chrysostom Ho. 61 Ad Po. Antioch Iew. 143 S. Cyprian li. 2. Ep. 3. and ad Iubaianum Iew. 144 And again S. Cyprian li. 2. Ep. 3. Iew. 150 S. Hierom ad Galat. li. 3. ca. 5. S. Hylar ad Const Augustum S. Augustin de vnitate Ecclesiae And S. Cyprian once againe lib. 2. Epi. 3. Besides Indignations and Inuectiues of your owne againste the Catholikes in this matter as thoughe they coulde not abide Christes Institution In folowing of which Place if you had spared your selfe and bestowed that Tyme and Labor in defynyng of Christs Institution vnto vs which you wasted to no purpose in prouing that it must be obserued it had ben wel spent of you and as we Looked for but to proue that which is not doubted of and to leaue the doubt vnresolued which ōly is moued it serueth to make the Replie Greate but not to make it perfite and full The second you proue by S. Iames Lyturgie
their manners and tongues will easily be answered for the Bishopes to make it plaine are commaunded to prouide meete men to celebrate the diuine Seruice vnto theÌ„ Accordinge to the diuersitie of their manners or Rites and to minister the SacrameÌ„tes of the Church vnto them accordinge to the diuersitie of their tongues For as it is not enough to bringe a simple Italian if he 〈◊〉 be confessed and absoâ—â—ed to a priest of the Latine Church but to such a 〈◊〉 as vnderstandeth and speaketh y e ItaliaÌ„ tongue So in sayinge of Seruice to the same man it is enough to keepe the Rites and Ceremonies which he hath ben vsed vnto in his owne countrie and it is not required that it should be saied in the Italian tongue because in Confession respect is had to singular persons but in publik Seruice y e whole state of the Church is considered In confession also the priestes goe downe to men but in publike Seruice 〈◊〉 ascend vpward to God In talking with men our tongue should be knowen vnto them in praieinge to God the thiefe care ys of denotion And therfore it was not sincerely done of M. Iew. so to turne leaue out the wordes of this decree neither are litle omissions in this kinde litle faultes Who then may trust him with expoundinge the wordes or what hope might he haue so to handle the matter that Innocentius the third might seme to condemne his owne Church of Rome and straightly commaund that accordinge to the diuersitie of manners and tonges the holy Seruice should be ministred Was this law euer put in execution in Rome it selfe Was it not an easie matter for him beinge Pope to doe it Did not sundrie nations of diuerse toÌ„gues mete in that Citie togeather to geaue him occasion to do it yet hath he not done it and the Romaines tontinew still their Seruice in the Latine though their vulgar speach be Italian It appeareth then that Innocentius had no such meaninge as you deuise And note the wordes of the decree Let meete men be prouided to celebrate and minister to People of diuersâ— Countries Accordinge to the diuersitie of their Rites and tongues Here I would aske what diuersitie it speaketh of Such as was not yet extant in the Church or such as was presently vsed If ye meane the first that can not be for of those Rites which are not yet who can say Let them be serued accordinge to the diuersitie of their Rites If ye meane the second that is If ye vnderstand that such diuersitie of Rites and tongues as was then all readie found in the Catholike Church should be vsed toward y e people of euerie countrie where diuerse nations met togeather within one Citie or diocese this proueth not that the English men dwellinge at Rome should haue a new English Seruice made for them but only The right meaning of Innocentius decree that the like Rites and tongue as were vsed in their Countrie at home in their CoÌ„mon Seruice should be enioyed of them in Rome After the which rate the Italians abidinge in Constantinople should haue the Latin Seruice and not the Greeke And the Greekes in Venice should haue the Seruice after their owne manner and not after the Latine But what is this to our question for to make it playner let vs suppose y t a French man dwellinge then in Rome with other his countrie men wold require to haue his Common prayer in the French tongue To him would I say by what reason or consequent doest thou require it Here let his answer be how Innocentius decreed that euery nation should be prouided for according to the diuersitie of their manners and tongues I would aske him againe what manner or tongue haste thou in the Church Seruice in Fraunce If he answered we haue the French he should be taken in an open lye because none was than thought vpon If he answered as y e truth was we haue it in Latin but we haue other fashions in it then these of Rome haue then should he perceaue Innocentius and the Councels meaninge which was that the celebratinge of publike Seruice and ministration of Sacramentes as it was then presently vsed in seuerall Countries so should it be in a readinesse for the men of y e same Countries when they met together in one Citie accordinge to y â— diuersitie of their Rites and tongues Therfore if you M. Iew. can shew by any meanes that the Church Seruice of England was at that tyme in the English tonge then may I graunt vnto you y t when ye goe to Rome or ConstaÌ„tinople you may clayme the benefite of InnoceÌ„tius decree to be serued English wise But if you can not find that in any of so many seuerall Countries as may be rekoned the Seruice was then in any other tongue then Greeke or Latin then shal you see it plainly and necessarily concluded that euery of them was prouided for According to the diuersitie of Rites and tongue Tonge you must meane which they vsed in publik Seruice and in Churches and not in open Market Place or Pryuate howses and yet no one of them all should haue other tongue then Greeke or Latine And therfore this testimonie doth nor serue you nor satisfie vs. And byside this I must tell you that were it neuer so good and fitt for your purpose yet is it byside your Glorie to vse Popes decrees of so late makinge Now to conclude M. Iew. signifieth vnto vs that he might allege much more euen out of Addias him selfe Iew. 17 â–ª whom M. Hardinge so much estemeth But I will only note the complaint of one Iohn Billet Whome I beleue you as much esteme as you doe Abdias A lamentation of some of histrâ—â—des vpon M. Iewel would serue here wel for Complainte the 〈◊〉 of Iohn Billet Iew. 176 But wherein will ye note his complaint Concerninge this case What case whether that The Common Seruice was not ministred by one man alone but by the Priest and the whole CongregatioÌ„ together which is y e thinge ye promised to shew Or that the publike Seruice was in the six hundred yeares after Christ in any other tongue then Gréeke or Latine which question was only demaunded and vnto which you were content to answer for the better Contentation of myndes and better satisfaction of the Reader Goe to then what eyleth that One Iohn Billet Iew. 178 as you cal hym and whereof complayneth he Mary what shall we do sayeth he in our dayes when as there is either none at al or very seldome that readeth or heareth or vnderstandeth Vnderstandeth what the publike Seruice no but the Gospell which was readen in the Seruice for the wordes next before are that whereas in the Primitiue Church no man should speake wich tongues onlesse some were present to expound them here of sayeth he grew a laudable Custome y t after y e Gospell was read litterally it should straight waies be expounded
the lesse Asia with Importing or Supplying or Making good the rest vnrehersed by this clause Et sic de singulis and so in eche of the rest The Antecedent I proue Iew 161. concerning those Countries which I named And I proue it by your warrant M. Iewel because it is surest Verily say you Polycarpus was Bishop of Smyrna Gregorius Bishop of Pontus S. Basil was Bishop of Caesarea in Cappadocia Amphilochius B. of Iconium in Lycaonia Gregorius S. Basiles brother B. of Nyssa in Caria or Thracia after your reckoning All these in sondrye Countries in Asia preached openlye in the Greeke tonge and the vulgar people vnderstode thē I take your Confession and proue there by in your Iudgemente and euerye other Protestantes that the Seruice also was in the Greeke tounge in those Countreis except you would answer that they preached in the Greeke and knowen Tounge but ministred in an other then Greeke or knowen And herein I vse the vauntage of your graunt to proue that the Seruice was in Greeke but that it was knowen vnto all y e Vulgare people therin we agree not w t you Yea y e very Sermōs Trearises of S. Basile Gregory Nazianzene and Gregory Nissine as they are nowe extant were not surely vnderstanded of the Common people of those Countries wher they sate Bishops but were pronounced to the capacity of the vulgare audience in termes most familiar and knowen and afterwards penned in the learned Tounge as well for other Nations as their owne Countries For the Seruice being wryten in the Common Greeke as appereth by S. Basiles Liturgie or Masse and their bokes also keping the same Tounge it is impossible by common reason that the Vulgare people of Cappadocia Pōtus and Caria should vnderstand it whose language shal be straitewaies proued in declaring of the Minor proposition to haue bene either Barbarous that is no Greeke at all either so corrupt and vncleane Greeke that in comparison of the Tounges vsed in the foresayde Liturgie or Sermons they were at the least as far to seking what was saide as a vulgare Italian or Frenchman is when he heareth a Latine Oration Concerning nowe the other Countreis which I haue not named you can not require it of me to goe particularly throughe them but your part is to geue an Instance and to name any one that had not the Seruice in the Greeke tounge vntill whiche time the Maior standeth in good force and may well be vsed of vs for certaine whiche can not suspect the contrary Now therfore let vs come to the Minor proposition Sundry Nations saithe D. Harding in Asia the lesse vnderstode not the Greeke Harding Fol. 75. But to what end Iew. 160 for neither this is denied by any of vs nor is it any part of the questiō If ye deny it not then foloweth the Cōclusion that sundry Nations in Asia the lesse vnderstode not the Common Seruice and so the end is that you must subscribe Subscribe If it be no part of the question how coulde you by force therof be driuen to yeld But consider what foloweth And yet notwithstanding Iew. 160 is not M. Harding able to proue it with all his gheasses Loe What a stomake he confesseth the Proposition to be true and yet so contentious he is he will stand against D. Harding that he is not able to proue it Which stomake being once taken what foule shifts will not a man inuent rather then he wil take a double foile The one in yelding vnto his Aduersarye the other in not defending that whiche he toke vpon him to say But for so muche as M. Iewel is so set let vs proue the Minor and consider his Answer thervnto The Minor is thus declared by y e Actes of the Apostles Sundry Coūtries of Asia the lesse vnderstode not the learned Greeke The inhabitors of Cappadocia and Pāphilia are within Asia the lesse and eche of them had a distinct and peculiar language For S. Luke reporteth as of others so also of these y ◠when the Apostles begā to speak in diuers tounges they were astonied and wondered at y e matter Act. 2. saying A see are not all these that speak men of Galilee and how doth euery one of vs heare oure Tounge in which we were borne The Lycaonians also are of Asia the lesse And S. Luke noteth that the people of Lystris spake Lyeaonice Act. 14. that is after the proper and peculiar tonge of the Country of Lycaonia wherof Listris was one of the Cities Ergo sundry countries of Asia the lesse vnderstode not the Greke What answereth M. Iewel Mary to the first of these two authorities he saith What if answer be made Iew. 16◠that all these rehearsed in the Actes of the Apostles were not diuers Tounges but rather certain differencies in one Tounge Yet more what ifs Contentious if sing striuing of M. Iewel And are ye not yet at a poynt to answer directly neither to Maior nor to Minor but that in both you muste hange vpon Ifs Here may we see what a sprite can do He said that M. Harding is not able to proue his Minor which he saide to try mastries and now rather thē he will seme not to abide by his worde he neither wil holde his Tounge nor yet speake anye thing to the purpose but by a what if he prouideth that if he be taken tardy he may not leese all but say I affirmed nothynge but only put forth a case and if no man reproue him that then his What if may stād for a perfite Resolution But let vs consider your saying better What if answere be made c. as before Mary without peraduenture it will be an idle answer and to no effect For to let it passe that S. Luke expressely sayeth Euery one hearde them speake Lingua sua in his owne Tounge and to graunt vnto you that all the toungs mentioned in the Actes were not diuers but that some were distincted from other only by certaine differencies Yet those differences were so great that the Vulgare people of one Tounge vnderstode not them of an other For I trust you meane not such differencies as are made by reason of Swiftnesse Slownesse Smothnesse or Hardnesse and so furthe of Tounges but such only as cōsist in the variety of Letters Wordes and Dialect In which respect though the Tounge of Saxonie Flanders England and Scotland be one yet because of a peculiar Property and Dialect whiche is in them the Vulgar Saxons are not only Strangers to Englishe men but allso to the Flemminges their neighbors and the Vulgare Scottesman not only vnderstandeth not the Flemming but of the Sowtherland so nigh vnto him he knoweth not the wordes and meaning There be about three skore seueral Coūtries that vse the Tounge named Illyrica but though the kind of the Tounge be one Gesnerus in Mithridate and the difference consiste in Dialecte and