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A34012 Missa triumphans, or, The triumph of the mass wherein all the sophistical and wily arguments of Mr de Rodon against that thrice venerable sacrifice in his funestuous tract by him called, The funeral of the Mass, are fully, formally, and clearly answered : together with an appendix by way of answer to the translators preface / by F.P.M.O.P. Hib. Collins, William, 17th cent.; F. P. M. O. P. 1675 (1675) Wing C5389; ESTC R5065 231,046 593

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and a Metaphor for God being a spirit hath neither right hand nor left and all interpreters expound this sitting on Gods right hand metaphorically viz. for that Lordship both of heaven and earth which he hath received from God his father as Earthly Princes make their Lieutenants whom they appoint to govern in their name to sit on the right side of them Again when it is said S. Math. 16. upon this rock I will build my Church and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it and I will give thee the keyes of the kingdome of heaven and whatsoever thou shalt binde on earth shall be bound in heaven c. It is manifest th●…t these are figures and Metaphors as Bellarmine confesseth in Book 1. of the Bishop of Rome chap. 10. and yet it is chiefly by this Passage that they endeavour to prove the Popes authority Answ. If this be our weapon or objection I pray Mounsieur give us leave to handle and order it our selves and then the standers by or arbiters may judge whether we thrust or push home with it or no for as you handle it it is to blunt too pearce through Therefore instead of saying when the establishing of Articles of faith the Institution of Sacraments c. men speake plainly and properly and not obscurely or figuratively give us leave to say men ought as well as they can and as farr as the subject they treat of bears it to speak plainly and properly and not obscurely or figuratively and then perhaps our weapon may do some execution As for example at the Institution of this Sacrament Christ first took bread in his hand and said plainly without any figure this is my body and left it as a Testament with us so wee take it and believe it to be Afterwards he took wine in a cup saying This is the Chalice of my bloud Certainly if the consectated bread be his real body the consecrated wine must needs be his real bloud because as we suppose the words of consecration were uttered upon both in the same sense and meaning Notwithstanding the words spoken of the bread were spoken plainly and not figuratively but the words spoken of the wine were figurative why because he took not the wine immediatly in his hand as he took the bread but he took it in a cup or chalice and therefore to express the Testament of the bloud it was necessary he should speak figuratively and yet he exprest himself as plainly as could be But in the Testament of his body where there was no need of a Metonyn●…e or figure he exprest himself plainly and down right from whence follows that Sacraments Testaments and covenants ought to be made as plainly clearly and in as proper terms as their subjects will permit them to be exprest Sometimes also a thing is better exprest when one speaks figuratively then by the proper literal Phrase for example when I say such a man is a Lyon a Tygar or a Nero. Such an expression is as plain and yet better and more energical to shew and express strength cruelty or tyrannie then if one should say such a man is mighty strong very cruel and tyrannical So was o●…r Saviours expression of S. Peter Math. 16. where he calls him a rock because the word rock is more significative and energical to shew the stability and firmness of Peter and his successours spiritual power then if he had exprest himself in plain terms thou art the head or chief Ruler of my Church And yet I eonfess that Rock there has but a figurative sense Therefore I say that when we have not a proper word to expresse a thing or when we cannot expresse it so well with its proper term as we can with a figure then it is lawful in Sacraments Testaments and covenants to use figurative expressions instead of plain and litteral ones But in our present question or dispute concerning the Eucharist especially concerning the consecration of the Bread there is no need of any figure either for to signify the thing consecrated or to express it with more energy Therefore being 't is left us for a Testament of the new Law we ought to take the words in their plain and litteral meaning without having recourse to any needless figurative glossation or sense Therefore although as Mr. de Rodon handles this weapon or objection it be false that Articles of faith Testaments and covenants are always exprest in proper terms in holy scripture which word Always he has in his answer though he puts it not in the objection yet as I handle it that is thus when the establishing of Articles of faith the Institution of Sacraments c. Men ought as well as they can and as farr as the subject they treat of ●…ears it and when there is no necessity to the contrary in making Testaments covena●…ts or Articles of faith to speak plainly and properly and not obscurely or figuratively In this sense I deny our major Proposition to be always or ever ●…lse And being the minor is evident clear a●…d uncontro●… led by Mr. de Rodon with my good leave I let the consequence follow Rodon 4. Secondly I answer that the holy scripture commonly speaks of Sacraments in figurative terms Thus Circumcision is called Gods Covenant Gen. 17. in these words This is my Covenant every male shall be circumcised that is this is the signe of the Coven●…nt as appears by the following verse ye ●…hall circumcise the fle●… of your fore-skin and it shall be a token of the covenant between me and you So the Paschal lamb is called the Lords Passover Exod. 12. because the bloud of this lamb sprinkled on the door-posts was given as a signe of the Angels favorable passing over the houses of the Israelites ●…s appears by vers 13. of the same chapter So Baptism is called the washing of Regeneration because it is the Sacrament of it In a word the Eucharistical cup is called the New Testament because it is the signe seal and Sacrament of it Answ. Really Mounsieur these wily sophistical excuses or answers will not serve your turn for we grant that Circumcision the Passover and all the rest of the Sacraments of the old Law were but meer speculative signes and tokens of what they signified and that they had no practical or operative vertue in them of themselves to sanctify or give grace to those that received them and God gave grace to the receivers of the old Sacraments only by compact viz. he promised Grace to such as received those Sacraments or signes he then gave them for their distinguishment from the unsaithfull not that those signes or Sacraments contained actually or practically any grace in themselves or that they were immediate instrumental causes of Grace as the Sacraments of the new Law are for the former Sacraments were as divines call them but vasa vacua empty vessels and the new ones are vasa plaena full vessels dipt in his Passion and