ready to diminsh the numbre of Ceremonies that the greatest papist in the world would not aske more fauor in the questioÌ„ aÌ„d cause of theÌ„ First if the Scripture doth alow anie order or fashioÌ„ it is not vaine If the whole Church hath generally receiued ani it is not vaine If it be but a particular Ceremony of one couÌ„trie and be not agaiÌ„st the faith or good maners it is not vaine Yea if anie thing be in it which helpeth to amendement of life it is not vaine By so many waies and for so many causes a ceremony maie wel continue as ye shal finde in that verie epistle of S. Augustin Epi. 119. c. 18. 19. And had you the face so to alleage this holy Doctours complaining of ceremonies as though he would haue as few as you What Sacrament haue you about which ye doe occupie oile What thinke you of the fast of lent What of Alleluia betwixt Easter and Witsontide What vse haue you of any Octaues Cap. 7. 15. 18. Yet of these Ceremonies he maketh mentioÌ„ in the foresaied Epistle and reckoneth that they are to be vsed and regarded Gregory c. if the Church saieth he shall depend vppon one man Apolog. it will at once fal doune to the ground Ye belie him shamfully he hath no such words at al. Conf. 203 Yet the protestaÌ„t may think this impossible that you should haue no more regarde of your honestye Let him seeke then if he be learned and iudge by his owne senses whether any such proposition is ther to be found But is there not a like vnto it Ye as so like as Rome is to Constantinople or Gregorie S. Peters successour to Nestorius of Constantinople an heretike For if a man should seeke for his life to find in that epistle but some resemblance of that which the Apology reporteth he findeth no more but this which I shal declare for th'vnlerned sake Iohn Bishope of Constantinople affected the title of Vniuersal Bishope S. Gregorie then Pope of Rome coÌ„plaineth thereof to Mauritius the Emperour declaring good causes aÌ„d reasons why such presumptioÌ„ should not be suffred Emong other he maketh this argument Lib. 4. epist. 3â— Surely we haue knoweÌ„ manie Prelats of the Church of CoÌ„staÌ„tinople to haue falleÌ„ into the goulfe of heresie and to haue ben not only heretiks but archeheretikes also Nowe for example he nameth Nestorius and Macedonius then bringeth he in therevpon this conclusion If therefore in that church vndoubtedly of Constantinople anie pul vnto himself that name of Vniuersal Bishope ergo which hath ben the iudgement of all good men the whole church which God forbid falleth froÌ„ her state wheÌ„ he falleth which is called Vniuersall An excellent argument vndoubtedly For if the only or Vniuersall Bishope should be at CoÌ„staÌ„tinople that see hauing no priuilege of coÌ„tinuing stil in the right faith as appereth by the archeheretikes which sate ther and al the world being bound to obey the Vniuersal Bishope this one absurditie grauÌ„ted a thousand would folow and that one Bishoppe erring all the whole Church should go a straie Loe this is al that may seme to geue any occasioÌ„ of reporting that which the Apologie hath attributed to S. Gregorie And wher find we here that if the church depeÌ„d vpon one maÌ„ â–ª it must at once fal doune to the ground Wil they yet defend theyr lying Or dare they yet stil abuse the old fathers â—s the Church aÌ„d that Church al one in coÌ„cluding Is depeÌ„ding vpon one man and that man al a like The successor of S. Peter and Bishop in that chaire in which neuer yet was fouÌ„d any archeheretike to set furth naughty doctrin is he al one with a Bishope of ConstaÌ„tinople â–ª which neither succedeth any Apostle and hath bene a defender of heresies let vs see now therfore whether you wil coÌ„fesse your errour in mistaking S. Gregorie Or mainteine your impudencie in misusing of him The bishâ—ps sayth Bernard who now haue yâ— charge of Gods church Apolog. ar not teachers but deceauers they are not feders but begilers thei are not prelats but pilates These words spake Bernard of yâ— B. who nameth him self the highest Bishop of al of yâ— other Bishops likwise which then had the place of gouernement How then Confut. Did S. Bernard forsake al papistrie and abandon the Pope because of those faâ—ltes which he fouÌ„d If he did why taried he in his moÌ„kes cote vnto his death If he did not what vnwise meÌ„ be you to for sake the Church for euil maners sake But coÌ„sider further WhoÌ„ called he deceauers â–ª begâ—â—ers pilats Al the whole order of Bishopes and gouernoures of the Church froÌ„ the Pope dounward Or spake he of some certain only If he noted but some certain aÌ„d â—heÌ„ worthely those other some which were not infected might wel preserue the state of the Church in truth of maners and doctrine that ye need not to feare an vtter destruction 〈◊〉 it and so through wretched foly depart out of it If he spake generally of al then wil I coÌ„fesse that ye are not so much to be blamed for your departing from that Church nor for anie your applieyng of S. Bernardes Authorie to that purpose But because I am sure this is false therefore I charge you and blame you How proue I this I proue it by those very bookes in which as you saie the foresaid wordes against the Pope and Bishopes are For concerning Eugenius him selfe he saieth in the third boke after much complaint or reproufe made of the euil maners of the Court of Rome Haec ad te Berna de CoÌ„s lib â–ª 3 noÌ„ de te scribo I writ this vnto thee not of thee And immediatly he declareth by example how Eugenius refused bagges of monie which came out of Germany and condemned a greate riche bisshop by likelyhode notwithstaÌ„ding his mony And how he gaue of his own vnto an other poore bisshop to geue vnto the officers in the Court least the bisshop should seeme niggish and vncourteous if he should haue nothing rewarded them Now Doth it greaue thee to heare this And I ê™ S. Bernard doe tell it so muche the more gladly by how much thou hearest it the more greauously The Pope theâ— him selfe was none of those deceauers begilers or pilates whom you mention Furth then were al the Cardinalles and Bishops deceiuers c. No neither al they as you may reade it proued in the fourth boke of that worke by the exaÌ„ples of two great Legats The one was Cardinal Martine Cardinal Martin which being sent legate into Dacia a countrie ful of gold and siluer returned yet so poore that for lacke of mony and horses he coulde scarse reach vnto Florence The Bishope of which place gaue him an horse without mention making of any mater to be done for it Yet the legat aÌ„d Cardinal Martin was 〈◊〉 soner at Rome but the bishop of Florence
discontinuance or interruption as that it shoulde be saied after manie hundred yeares comming in betwene in which one forme of Religion was vsed now is Luther or Zuinglius sent of God to geaue lyght vnto the world Gather I saie these thinges together and ye shal perceiue that either Christ had no church huÌ„dred of yeres together and that yet he hath none or els that our Catholike Church is the one and only church of Christ. For alother Churches haue either discoÌ„tinued either they haue not bene sensiblie perceiued either they haue ben within memorie erected and so they lacke Succession visiblenes Antiquitie Of whiche three pointes the Church that Luther and Zuinglius went vnto when they departed from the Catholikes had not one But afterwardes when they became them selues builders of A new Church aÌ„d that vpon theyrown heades and Authoritie for they acknowledged no creature then liuing for theyr superiour in that mater theÌ„ in dede it was not long but they gote one of the forsaied three pointes For they kepte such a sore sturre against all Christendome that it was most euideÌ„t that they were a visible Congregation But as for succession and antiquitie they can neuer get it because they can neuer proue it for why they neuer had it Yet for Antiquitie they wil striue and crake as the Authours of the Apologie doe that they doe come as neere as they possiblye can to the Church of the Apostles and of the old Fathers But in the point of Succession they can not tell what to aunswer for them selues For how Let the heretiks shevv their succession thinke they is it possible that the Church of Christ should be without the lauful successioÌ„ of the Apostles Could his wisdom not for see it that for as much as he minded coÌ„tinually to cal in gheasts vnto his feast therefore it was necessary to prouide seruants one after another for that purpose Would his chartie suffer it that togeather with the Apostles deathes his coÌ„passion vpoÌ„ the poore soules of the world shuld die aÌ„d that ther shuld not be for euery age vnto the worlds end like officers for their authority as th' Apostles wer to dispeÌ„se his graces aÌ„d mercies Could not his power perfourme it that come who would none shoulde be hable to staie the succession of his Lieutenants and Vicars What then can the heretike nowe say why he hath not a succession A thing so necessary for the wisedome of God to prouide and so natural for his Charitie to geaue and so proper for his almightines to maintain Verely were it not that he is almightie it is impossible by naturall power and reason that the Bishop of Rome whom heretikes haue alwaies hated at whom the greatest Bishopes in the East Churche haue enuied with whoÌ„ Lordes aÌ„d Ladies of the world haue ben so much offended whom the Barbarous haue so ofte assaulted whom the Christians at home haue so trobled that he yet should continue still and alwaies haue a successour it passeth al cuÌ„passe of mans wisdom and prouisioÌ„ but that he that made him his Vicar in earth is God almightie in â—eauen and earth In some other thinges the heretikes maie so contend with the Catholikes that it will be hard for the indifferent man certainlie to knowe whom he maie folowe They wil alleage the same letter of the Scriptures as the Catholikes doe they wil vse the same couÌ„cels aÌ„d fathers They wil challenge Antiquitie and say that they haue descended from the Apostles like as Parking Warbecke saied he came of king Edward the fourths bloud and what so easie as to saie a worde if one will be desperate and die rather in field than vnsaie it but when they are brought to the mater of succession in which they lacke the verie bare names and much more the Actes and Monumentes of such as they should shewe to haue desceÌ„ded lineally and orderly from the Apostles doune vnto them then loe they are at a staie and haue not one wise worde left to them by which they might aunswer a question so principall and so reasonable And yet they crake stil that they are come to the Churche of the Apostles and of the old Catholike Bishops and Fathers whiche Churche saie they with exceding blindnes or impudencie we know hath hithervnto ben sound and perfite Con. 322. and as Tertullian termeth it a pure Virgine spotted as yet with no Idolatrie nor with any foule or shamefull faulte Note Gentle Reader that they speake of theyr knowledge and excepte theyr knowledge be so diuine and ineffable that neither we can conceaue it nor they well vtter it desire theÌ„ to be so good as to make vs also knowe it For if they knowe the Apostolike Churche to be hythervnto sounde perfite and pure lette them tell vs where it was in the yeare of our Lorde 1500. or 1400. or 1300. The Churche of Rome is knowen to haue stoode in those yeares but all the sorte of them holde it for A Principle that manie errours and faultes were founde then in it Ergo if by theyr saieing that Church had errours what other Church was there in those dayes whiche they knowe to haue bene sound perfite and pure They can reken none at all For al these Weast partes of Christendome folowed the Church of Rome and they theÌ„selues confesse that the Greeke Churche doeth erre Ergo if the Churche of Rome was not sounde and perfite in those foresaied yeares and if the Greeke Churche be notorious for the errours of it howe doe these Felowes knowe that the Apostolike Church hath hithervnto bene sound and perfite For what signifieth hithervnto but euen vnto our time And if the Apostolike Church hath ben found and perfite euen vnto our time there was suche a Churche vndoubtedlie in the yeares of our Lorde 1500. 1400. and 1300. and that Churche was not as they holde the Churche of Rome Ergo some other But there was no other that they knowe to haue ben sound perfite and pure Ergo they speake more then they know and ioyne theÌ„selues close to the Apostolike Church without any succession from the Apostles and crake of a pure aÌ„d perfite building without anie foundation Such is theyr miserable and blind braggyng How much more trulie should ye conclude that for as much as the Apostolike Churche not onely hath bene hytherto sound aÌ„d pure in doctrin but must also coÌ„tinue sound and pure vnto the world end and for as much as no Church hath coÌ„tinued so but only the church of Rome therfore he that maketh accompt of euerlasting life can not possibly attaine vnto it excepte he come to that Churche in which only the succession continueth by which it is easie to ascend vp euen to the chiefe of the Apostles For to S. Peter our Sauiour saieth Math. 1â— Thou art â—eter or a Rock and vpoÌ„ this Rocke I wil build â—y church aÌ„d the gates of hel shal not â—reuail against it â—uc 2â—â— Again
prieste should aske councell of God if any thing were to be done for Iosue and that Iosue should goe furth and come in at the word of Eleazar And this one answer serueth all the Examples which ye bring in of King Dauid Salomon Ezechias Iosaphat Iosias Ioas Iehu By which ye wold proue that they had iurisdiction in maters Ecclesiastical For they dyd nomore then than Christian princes doe now euen those princes that are obedieÌ„t to the See of Rome For they buyld Churches and finde Singingmen and Priestes to keepe dayly seruyce they geaue Bishoprikes they put Bishoppes byside theyr offices as Queene Marie did put CraÌ„mer anâ— Ridly aÌ„d tweÌ„ty thiÌ„gs moe they do abouâ— maters of religioÌ„ not as Supreme Gouernours but as deuout and faithfull Princes being glad to doe for the Churche whatsoeuer the Spiritual heades thereof shal moue them vnto and being ready to defend the faith of the Churche as they shall learne it of their Bishops It remaineth then that you shew not that the kinges in the olde lawe did set furth the Seruice of God displace Priests commauÌ„ded the temple to be clensed destroyed Idols c but that they did these thiÌ„gs by their absolute power without askiÌ„g aduise leue or instructioÌ„ of the priests Constantine called the Councell at Nice Apolog. Theodosius the Councel at Constantinople Theodosius the second the CouÌ„cel at Ephesus Martian the Councel at ChalcedoÌ„ Ergo Ecclesiastical matters perteine to the Office of Princes They called these Councels Confut. .308 not by vertue of their supreme autority but by the asseÌ„t of the B. of Rome And so Princes haue to do with the maters of the Churche at the second hand only The Emperour ConstaÌ„tine gaue in yâ— CouÌ„cel of Nice his aduise to yâ— Bishops Apolog. how it was best to trie out the mater by yâ— Apostles Prophets writings Ergo he bare a great stroke with his Authority in their consultation As great stroke as he bare Confut. .313 he strake not the head of the Church froÌ„ the body nor made himself Supreme Euseâ—ius in vita Constant. lib. 3. Theodor. lib. 1. c. 7. But that ye may vnderstaÌ„d how litle he toke vpoÌ„ hiÌ„ he came in last into the Councel with a smal coÌ„pany and sate not doune before he had desired the Bishops to permit it and then also he sate but in a low chaire As for geuing of aduise how things were best to be done it is lauful for the least â—rier Abbate or Doctor in a Councel to do the like and yet euery Frier that speaketh in a general CouÌ„cel is not supreme head of the Church nor of the vocation and Authoritie to define or geaue sentence on any Canon In the third Councel at Conâ—â—antinople ConstaÌ„tine a Ciuile Magistrate did not only â—itte among the Bishoppes but did also subscribe with them In the Councel called Arausicanum Apolog. the Princes Embassadours gaue their consent and put to their handes Ergo ecclesâ—iastical matters pertein to Princes So likewise to subscribe vnto the Decrees of a Councel Confut. 316. and to geue their coÌ„sent vnto matters there determined it is and may be ê‘ermitted vnto meane layemen but to define determine decree and geue Authority vnto a Canon it is neither for Embassadours nor Ciuile Magistrates nor Emperours of the whole world but for Bisshops only whom God hath apointed to gouerne his Church Gods grace is promised to a good mind Apolog to one that fereeth him Ergo not to the Sees and Successours This would folow Confut. 334. if God vsed to geue but one kinde of Grace such as maketh the receauer good But now there is a Grace of faith hope and charitie and it is not an euil minde that hath it There is the grace of preaching working of miracles healing of diseases c. and he may be euill that hath it To be a Kinge it is by the grace of God and that grace continued vntil a certaine time in the Seed and Succession of Dauid yet were not all they of a good mynde that were kinges of Iuda By which it appeareth that your Argument is false and that the grace of Authoritie and continuance is geauen not only vnto the good but the euill that folow in the race and succession Peter when he was at Rome Apol. neuer taught the Gospell neuer fed the flocke c. sate him doune onely in his castle in S. Ihon Laterane aud poynted out with his fynger the spaces of Purgatorie gaue orders to say priuate Masses c. consecâ—ated wyth hys holie breath oyle wax wolle belles c. mainteyned warres set Princes togeather at variance c. Ergo Peter did all thinges like vnto the Pope Of whose deuising is this Argument Confut. 335. Vndoubtedly no Catholike hath the 〈◊〉 to make it Do the ProtestaÌ„ts then speakâ—â—â—â— al this of S. Peter in sad ernest ' â— thinkeâ—â— not so euill of them although they can beâ—â—â— sometimes desperat How then Doe they speake it but in sport and dalie only with theyr Aduersaries The cause is to great to vse in so large wise such mockery Set him vpon the Stage with a furd cap and a motly cote he wil plaie the vice without a vizarde and make gaie sporte to the cumpanie Men say Apolog. that one Cobilon a Lacedemonian when he was sent Embassador to treate of a league found by chaunce them of the Courte playing at dice he retourned straytewayes home againe leauing his message vndone For he sayd it should be a greate reproche to his Common wealth to make a league with dycers Ergo it should be a greate blot to our name to returne to the Pope CabiloÌ„ might be parchaunce a wisemaÌ„ in his own generation but in these daies Confutation 337. he should not be much better than an impatient or Solemne Fole For to play at 〈◊〉 it is not absolutely and in all tymes â—laces and persons euil And to let that â—vndone vpon priuate coÌ„ceipt and iudgeâ—eÌ„t which is put vpoÌ„ any maÌ„ by coÌ„mon coÌ„sent aÌ„d authoritie it is not in most cases alowable But such now is the ê‘fection of the new Gospellers they wil not be at any league with dycers or euill lyuers aÌ„d in theyr coÌ„gregatioÌ„s aÌ„d fraternities ther is I trow no blot of infamy to be feared With what countenance then loke they wheÌ„ they come into the Courtes of Princes or noblemen Do they fin dno dycing â—here and no euil lyuing I haue so good opinion of these mens holines that if the Pope with al his Cardinalles would take themselues to Wyues so to cal harlotes aÌ„d in other things doe accordingly to the forme of the new Gospel he should not only haue a league made with him but also be mainteined in his supremacy which he hath in Christendome And the Cobiâ—on that should be sent Embassadour for the purpose wold neuer returne again â—â—â—uinge his message vndon though 〈◊〉
As doeth appeare by the chiefe Apostles of the new Ghospell Luther Oecolampadius Peter Martir Bale Barcâ—let Barlowe Scorie c. Which departed out of the Churche on theyr owne heade and perill and liued not well in the Churche whyles they were interteined in it And so although some faithlesse and wretched fellowes might be proued to haue sold theyr Masses in the Churche that conuinceth them to be naught and not that the Churche consenteth vnto it We verelye Apolog. because we knowe the shedding of Christe hys Bloud vppon the Crosse to be the onelie Sacrifice are well content with it alone and looke for none other And forasmuche as yt was to be offered but once we commauÌ„d it not to be renewed againe You woulde I perceaue haue the Catholikes compted exceading couetous and insatiable Conf. 123. as thoughe they shoulde thinke the shedding of Christe his Bloud vppon the Crosse to be vnsufficiente to saluation But yet howe thinke you Notwithstanding ye are so well content as ye saye with Christe his Passion alone doe ye not thinke it necessarie for you to obey the Churche to obey your Prince to absteine from lying from adultery from Simonie c If besides the passion of Christ you must also keepe the Commaundementes and doe as manie good workes as ye may then as you are content so are we And you are no wiser by this rekening than other poore folkes are But if Christ his Passion doth so content you that ye seeke not to suffer also with him after your degree in a certaine proportion then doth it plainlie appeare that you are quickly satisfied And in such sorte to be well content is for suche as neuer thincke to ascend after Christ and are verie vnlike vnto him Why hath he hys Legates as much to saie as moste suttle spyes lying in wayte in all Kinges Courtes Apolog. Councelles and priuie chambres Why doth he when he lyst sette Christian Princes one against an other And at his owne pleasure trouble the whole world with debate and discord First Con. 178 let it be proued that the Pope doth it and then afterwardes aske the cause why And coÌ„sider also whether it becommeth the Church of England that such an Apologie should goe furth in the name of it as meddleth with the legats whom other Princes of Christendome doe interteyne And which obiecteth to a person of much Authoritie at the least such an heygâ—nous and shamefull crime as that at his plesure he should trouble the whole world If the Pope were no more quiet and peaceable than ye make him had England all this while continued in schisme and heresie and not ben made a praye to some that would haue taken it What is he that coÌ„maundeth the Emperour to goe by him at his horse bridle Apolog. the Frenche King to hold his stirope Some Pope by lykelihode of your owne making Con. 185. For the Catholiks know of none such at al. Yea Pauluâ— Iouius when Charles the fifthe of worthie memorie would haue helde Pope Clements stirope he was not suffered so to doe the Popes modestie ouer coÌ„ming the Emperours deuotion Why doe they hyde Apolog. why doe they keepe vnder the Ghospell which Christ woulde haue preached alowde from the house toppe We beleue Con. 222. it is not hyddeÌ„ that which is openlie readen in the Churche Catholikelie expounded in Vniuersities Ordinarelie readen in Religiouse houses And commonlie solde in Hebrue Greeke and Latine to all that will studie it This lye is dilated by the Authours of the Apologie Fo. 264. this also is emong the flatte lyes Why doe they not proue theyr Religion Apolog. by the examples of the Primitiue Churche and by the Fathers and Councels of old tymes Our bookes doe aunswer for vs Conf. 231. that this is a lye Why be they afrayd to take a paterne Apolog. of the Apostles and old Fathers We be neuer afraied Con. 20â— but when we come to such heretikes as wil not admit the old Fathers nor theyr interpretatioÌ„s vppon the Apostles then in deede we alleage not so thicke theyr Testimonies whose Authorities the loftie and prowde mindes doe easelie contemne Why dyd Iohn Apolog. 1. Clement a Countrie man of ours 2. but fewe yeares paste 3. in the presens of certaine honest men and of good credite 4. teare and 5. caste into the fyere certaine leaues of Theodorete the moste 6. Auncient Father and a 7. Greeke Bishoppe wherein he playnlie 8. and euidentlie taughte that the nature of Bread in the Communion was not chaynged abolyshed or brought to nothinge And thys dyd he of 9. purpose bycause he thought 10. there was no other copy thereof to be found Ye haue done well so particularlie to set furth this mater Con. 231. declaring by manie circumstances that Doctour Clement shoulde Teare and Caste into the fier certaine leaues of such an Author of such a mater before men of good credite and for suche a purpose and 〈◊〉 â–ª as you specifie And nowe as though the mater needed no further 〈…〉 aske why Iohn Clement a Counâ—rieman of yours dyd so But I will tel you firste 〈◊〉 he dyd not so For as him selfe hath 〈◊〉 me and other asking this verie quâ—stion of him that you appose vs withall he neuer had anie parte of that booke in Greeke or in Latine in written hande And therefore could not wel burne that which he neuer had Nowe if the honest men that you speke of did not only se him cast certeine leaues into the fier but did reade also the contentes of those leaues before they were cast into the fier and vnderstoode vpon what intent D. Clement dyd it c. name them that they maie be knowen for theyr honestie When they did of late put in print Apolog. the auncient Father Origenes worke vp on the Ghospel of Iohn why left they quite out the whoâ—e sixte chapiter wherein it is lykely yea rather of verie suerty that the 〈…〉 had writen many thinges conâ—â—rning the Sacrament of the holy Communion contrarie to these mens myndes We could not leaue that Chapiter out Con. 233. which was not founde in anie Copy But if you can bring anie such chapiter furth ye shal make it lykely aÌ„d ê“bable that we are to blame for not putting it in And if you can not you proue your selfe to be verie suspitiouse and slaunderouse which reproue the Catholikes for not putting that in which is not as farre as we or you doe hitherto know to be found in any place extant Yet you haue suche a grace as in speaking so also in reading without booke that you further saie it to be not onlie lykelie but rather of verie suertie that such and such things should be in that place of Origen which yet you neuer sawe in al your lyfe that you might be able to reporte anie thing of it Which of al the Fathers haue at anâ—e time called you
for thee â—eter I haue praied that thy faith should not â—aile and thou being once turned confirme thy bretherne Againe to S. Peter he committeth his whole flocke saying Ioan 21. feede my lambes fede my sheepe To S. Peter then as the singularly chosen the promises are made and the priuileges are by praier obtained aÌ„d the charge by expresse worde is committed Nowe for confirmation of these wordes consider the effectes that haue folowed what heresie was euer mainteined by the See of Rome What question was there euer in the Church of Christ and not referred to that See and determined or pacified by it What See hath continued in al tempestes but onlie the See of Rome Who can shewe theyr succession from the Apostles but onlie the Bishopes of Rome What See is preferred in the writinges of holy Fathers but the See of Rome onlie That is the Chaire vnto which perfidiousnes can haue no accesse 〈…〉 That is the chaire of vnitie in which God hath put the doctrine of veritie 〈…〉 That is the Chaire in which euill men are constrayned to speake good thinges that the faith of the Christians may be out of doubt with them whiles it shall depend vpon the infallible promises of God and not vpon the deceiptful coniectures of men This Churche therefore being the Church which we cal Catholik in which the chiefe Master of the worke laied S. Peter as the first stone next to himselfe and in which there is a continual rew of Bishops one vpon an other to the meruelous strengthning and beautifieng of the whole building against which Church it is impossible that any wind or weather should so preuaile as it might ouerturne it for it is builded vpon a sure Rocke in which Church also there is the presence of the Holyghost sent of our Sauiour to teach it all truth and to tarie with it for euer these thinges being most euident and consequent what a blaspheâ—ouse lye is it to say that Christ hath told longe before that this Churche should erre For what other thiÌ„g is that to say but to blaspheme either the wisedoÌ„ of God as though he had not erected a church that should not erre or his power as though he could not bring it to passe or his Charitie as though he would not or his veritie as though he had not sayed poynting to S. Peter Math. 1â— vpon this Rock I wil build my Churcâ—e and againe I haue prayed for thee Peter Luc. 22. that thy Faith might not faile But for this tyme this is inough to note only the blasphemie he that wil see is more largely betraied and conuinced let him reade Doctor Saunders booke lately set furth of the Rocke of the Church The 12. Of the Contradictions Martin Luther Hulderycke Zuinglius Apolog. â—74 a being most excellent men euen sent of God to geue light to the worlde firste came vnto the knowledge of the Gospell ERgo before their tyme Confut. ther was a generall darknes in the world I wysse it is not so harde a matter to find out Gods Church Apolog. .24 for the Church of God is set vpoÌ„ an hill glistering place Ergo Luther and Zuinglius could not be the first that shoulde see the Church Confut. except either Christ had no Church at all in the world wheÌ„ Luther was borne or except a Citie set vpon an hil and for that purpose vndoubtedly sette that it might be sene should not yet be sene before Luther came in with his lanthorn We saye we haue no meede at all Apolog. 125. by our owne workes and dedes Ergo it booteth not to labour Confut. except it be for nothing God hath plucked vs out from the power of darknes Apolog. 225. to serue the liuing God to cut away all the remanents of synne and to worke out Saluation in feare and trembling Ergo that is not without some meede and rewarde Confut. by which we worke our saluation Our Aduersaries must be heaued froÌ„ their mother Apolog. 194. that is from this vaine coloure and shadow of the Church Ergo ye should vtterly dâ—spise the Church Confut. especially as it is now if yoâ—r aduersaries mother be of no substance but a vaine colour only To say truely Apolog. 192. we doe not despise the Chuâ—che of these men how so euer it be ordered by them now adayes â—rgo the Catholiks Church is no vaine colour of a Church Confut. seing that your selues dare not despise it 〈◊〉 popes had neuer hitherto leisure to 〈…〉 and earnesâ—â—â—e of those matters Apolog 19. 〈◊〉 some other cares do let them and â—iuers waies pul them Item â—61 they compt these thinges to be but coÌ„mon and trifling studies and nothing to appertaine to the Popes worthines Ergo being so carelesse Confut. they would neuer haue perceiued the case of their Religion nor procured men to defend it There haue ben wylily procured by yâ— Bishop of Rome Apolog. certaine persons of eloquence inough and not vnlearned neither which should put their helpe to this cause now almoste despaired of Item In deede they perceyued that their owne cause did euery where goe to wracke Ergo it appeareth Confut. that the Popes haue had care of the cause of Religion In this point that is lifting vp the Sacrament consisteth nowe all theyr Religion Apolog 250. Ergo al is not in salt Confut. water c. In these thinges they meane salt water Apolog. 255. Oyle spittle Palme they haue set all their Religion Ergo all is not in lifting vp the Sacrament Confut. What fault haue they once acknowledged and confessed Apolog. 209. Why burden ye then vs with not amending manifest and ofte confessed faultes Confut. Of so many Apolog 291. so manifest so often confessed by them and so euident errours what one haue they amended Why aske you then Confut. what faulte we haue once confessed For so much as we were most ascertened of God his will Apolog. 327. and compâ—ed it a wicked thing to be careful and ouercuÌ„bred about yâ— iudgments of mortal men Therefore ye should haue neuer called a Synode of mortal men Confut. Yet it foloweth Therefore we thought good to remedie our Churches by a prouincial Sinod Apolog. But what neded a remedy by a Synod Confut. if mortal mens iudgmentes are not to be cared for Our cause against the wil of Emperoures from the beginning Apolog. .15 against the willes of so many Kinges in spite of the Popes and almost maugre the head of al men hath taken encreace c. You neuer nede then Confu to aske leaue that your Gospel may procede if it be so victorious and triumâ—hant that maugre the head of al men almost it take encrease Let them geue the Ghospell free passage Apolog 133. let the trueth of Ihesu Christ geue his clere light
Confut. For the holy doctours doe note two kindes of perfections The one of the waie in which we walke August de pâ—cca meâ—â—tis The other of the Countrie to which we goe etremiss lib. 2â— C 13. The one of this life the â—ther of the life to come The one coÌ„sisting in deniyng coÌ„sent vnto coÌ„cupisceÌ„ces notwithstanding we feele manie of themâ—â— the other consisting in a perfite peace of body and soule without any motion to euill To fulfil the lawe so that no motion of euill come to our thoughtes it is for an other worlde but not to obey the Concupiscencies that is such a perfection as many in this life doe come vnto and that is a fulfilling of the lawe of God in respect of our pilgrimage Paul sharply rebuked Peter Apolog Barnabas departed from Paul c. Did Catholike Fathers striued one against an other Ergo we should not be so greatly noted for dissensions which are fouÌ„d amoÌ„g vs. The Apostles and holy Fathers haue so striued Conâ—ut â—39 that they kept vnitie of faith and religion And they were not so set that they would liue and dye in the quarel But your Strifes are in principal maters of ReligioÌ„ aÌ„d you be so obstinat eche of you in his opinion that no Authoritie shal make yow geue ouer and yelde which is not so emonge the Catholikes whereas al are obedient vnto one head Iustine the Martyr is witnes Apolog. that al Christians were called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Godlesse Ergo this ought not to trouble vs that they cal vs wicked and vngodly men The cause is not like Confutiâ—â—tion 151. For if infidels speake euil of vs it is no mater because they are not our Ordinaries or Iudges But wheÌ„ the Catholiks froÌ„ whoÌ„ ye receued the faith and without whom ye can not be sure of the Articles of your faith wheÌ„ these that haue beÌ„ aÌ„d shuld be your Fathers and Rulers doe condemne your deedes it should be a very simple coÌ„fort vnto yow that Infidels of olde tyme did speake against Christians Of the same kind of argument it is where you say Haman accused the Iewes as a people that vsed certaine new lawes Fol. 228. The AtheniaÌ„s said to S. Paul may we know what new doctrine this is Celsus writing of purpose against Christ what saith he hath God after so many ages now aâ— last so late bethought him selfe Eusebius writeth that ChristiaÌ„ religion was called new and strainge Ergo tâ—â—y bâ— wicked mâ—n spiteful against the religiâ—â—â— of God which cal vs new fangled These arguments are naught For the testimonie of Infidels against Christianâ— is nothing worth but the Sentence olde Catholikes vpon newfangled Protestantes hath much authority in it Paul the Apostle found faults falles cueÌ„ in the prime chief of the Gospel Apolog. so that he was coÌ„pelled to write sharply to the Galathians Corinthians Ergo the Church may faile and goe amisse I answer Confut. 200. faults may be coÌ„mitted either in lifeâ— either in faith Againe particular churches may erre both in life and faith The Church of Rome may erre in life but neuer in faith because the whole church then shuld be deceiued as which is bouÌ„d to obey the chief pastor like as he is priÌ„cipally bouÌ„d to feed and instruct it But this is impossible Mat. 16. Ioa. n 14. the ê“mises of God staÌ„ding aÌ„d the preseÌ„ce of the Holyghost assistiÌ„g it Ergo though S. Paul fouÌ„d errors in particular Churches this caÌ„not iÌ„port that the whol Church may be deceued or that One Church of Rome vpoÌ„ the safty and trust of which the helth of the whole depeÌ„deth Pighius findeth fault with many abuses brought in Apolog. eueÌ„ into yâ— very Masse GersoÌ„ coÌ„plaineth of a nuÌ„bre of most fond ceremonies Ergo the Church may erre You might wel say Confut. 206. Ergo a particular Church may erre in a ceremony or suche like thing about the Masse it self But this is nothing to the purpose to proue that the whole Church may erre or that the chief Church of al which is in Rome may err in faith Now as Pighius fouÌ„d fault with abuses so haue the Heades of the Churches geueÌ„ charge Sess. 6. that thei shuld be amended As in the very last CouÌ„cel at TreÌ„t By which you may perceiue that although fauts be fouÌ„d in the church yet ar they not alowed generally of the Church Bernard was no heretike Apolog. he had not forsaken yâ— Catholike Church yet neuerthelesse he did not let to cal the Bishops that then were deceiuers begylers aâ—â—â— Pilats Ergo the Church may erre As he letted not to cal som deceuers Confutation .209 etâ— so he testifieth for other that they weâ—â— good and faithful Officers in the Church As Martianus the Cardinal and Gaufriâ— Carnotensis Bernard de consideratioÌ„e both of them Legates oâ— the Pope the one into Dacia and the other into Aquitania He prayseth also Eugenius the Pope excedingly and yet without flaterie Whereby it is easy to perceaue that all were not like them whome he reproueth And therefore the whole Churche was not deceiued though some were Pilates and not Prelates An other answer is that this Obiection doth not proue errour in faith of which the question is but of maners which God amend and which hurt not the good men no more than the chaffe and strawe doth the pure corne The Grekes haue neyther priuate Masse Apologâ— nor mangled Sacramentes nor purgatories nor pardons Ergo they holde a still numbre of those thinges which they receiued from the Apostles Confutâ— 267. First the antecedent is starke false Then concerning the Argument it is not only false but folishe also For it concludeth an Affirmatiue of one kind of a plaine and pure Negatiue of an other as if a man would say The Church of Englande hath neither Crosses in their churches neither order of Monastical life in their Religion neither Latine tongue lightes or ornameÌ„ts in their Seruice Er go it holdeth stil a nuÌ„ber of those things which it receiued of S. Austin the Monk It is madnes to think yâ— the Holygost taketh his flight froÌ„ a general CouÌ„cel to â—un to Rome Apolog. Ergo yâ— Pope may erre Confut. 281. It is madnes in dede so to think And wher then had you the wit to imagin it For what place caÌ„ you apoint to a Spirit and especially what boundes vnto God Beware of it least whiles ye seke so gredily to flout your aduersary ye blaspheme in your foule termes and Ironies the holy Ghost our Creatour Item Apolo what needed so many Bishops with so greate charges so far iourneis haue assembled theyr conuocation at Trident if the Bishop of Rome must determine al maters Ergo he may erre If you had bene so obedient Confut. 281. or if other were so wise as they should be General Councels should
not neede But because the world is now come to that Infirmity aÌ„d curiositie that maters must be defended against al obiections of heretikes and brought againe vnto examination after they haue ben already determined and beleued therefore hath the charitie and wisedom of the Popeâ— stoode to the charges of calling a general Councell which facte of his doth not proue that he may erre which the holy Ghost wil not suffer for his presence sake in the Church but that he doth so reasonably and discreetly order those maters that shal concerne our Faith that he wil not erre as much as mans wit can prouide but haue also the Aduise Consent and Iudgement of other which are of most authoritie and lerning in the Church of Christ. Let the Bishope of Rome alone Apol. be aboue al Councells Ergo one parte is greater than the whole No Syr Confut. 284 not parte greater than the whole but parte shall be greater than parte and one member worthier than an other The bodie and heade togeather make the whole and take away the head ye take away a parte of the whole Ye can not therfore make a diuisioÌ„ of the church into the whole and the heade but into the head and the reast of the partes of the whole And then it is no absurditie at all that the heade should be greater in price and honor than al the other members beside Athanasius denied to come to yâ— councell at Cesarea Apolog. Athanasius went away from the CouÌ„cell at Syrmium IhoÌ„ Chrysostom kept himself at home although the Emperour commaunded him to come to the Arrians Councel Maximus and Paphnutius depaâ—ted from the Councell at Palestine The Bishops of the East would not come to the Councel of Heretiks named Patropassians Paulinus and many others moe refused to come to the CouÌ„cell at Milane Ergo we are not to be blamed for not comming to the Councel at Trent You mutiply examples al in vaine Confut. 293. aÌ„d there is no proportion at al betwene the holy Fathers constancy and your disobedieÌ„ce For they refused to be at the commaundent of heretikes and their Fauourers but you contempne the lawfull Authority of Catholike Bishops If ye could truly say it that the Fathers gathered of late at Trent were ArriaÌ„s PatropassiaÌ„s or heretikes of any sort then might you laufully vse the examples of Athanasius Chrysostome Maximus Paphnutius and other But for as much as it is impossible that they could be heretikes which held no strainge and singular opinioÌ„s contrary to the Catholike coÌ„mon and receiued faith in the whole world you haue no excuse left for your pride aÌ„d disobedieÌ„ce That Cathalike Bishopes haue refused to come to the conspiracies of heretikes ye neuer neede to haue proued it But if ye can shew by any example that euer any good man yet did refuse to come to a CouÌ„cel lawfully called by the Pope then may that example make for you but there is none suche to be founde None of vs can be suffered to sit in yâ— Councell Apolog. The Popes Legats Patriarchs Archebishopes Bishopes and Abbates do conspire togeather sit alone by them selues and haue power alone to geue theyâ— consente And they wil haue al theyr opinions to be iudged at the will and pleasure of the Pope Princes and Embassadoures are but vsed as mocking stockes Ergo leâ—â—e not the wise and good maruaile if we haue those rather to sit at home then to iourney to the Conucel The Apostles neuer made such argumentes Confut. 294 And you if ye had in dede the holy ghost and if ye were chosen vesselles to cary the name of God abrode ye would neuer so childishely either without causâ— feare or if ye had a iust cause complainâ— and whine that you shal not sit whenâ— you come to the general Councel or that then ye shal haue a number of Bishopeâ— and Abbates against you or that al shalâ— be referred to the Pope or that they wilâ— mocke you if ye goe thither For none of all these thinges should haue letted you from telling your opinionâ— and for the rest you should haue referred al to the will of God what successe your words should haue had But either ye be so prowde that except you maie be of the chiefest you wil not come into the presence of reuereÌ„d and lerned Fathers or ye be so fainteharted that except the Prince be on your syde ye dare non trust the warrant of a safeconduct A Christian Prince hath the charge of both tables committed vnto him Apolog. Ergo not only temporal maters but Ecclesiastical also pertaine to his office He hath the Charge of both tables so far foorth Confut. .303 that he must defend the external geauing of due honour vnto God and outwarde exhibiting of charitie towards our neighbour But to offer vp Sacrifice to minister Sacramentes or to iudge of Murder Adultery Theft or any thing that is coÌ„mitted only in hart hath he any power Euery man seeth that worldly Princes meddle not with suche maters And therefore theyr charge is baser and narower thaÌ„ the charge of Bishopes and Priestes whom God hath appointed to be his Officers in the inward Courte of Conscience The prophets of God coÌ„maunded the Kinges to breake doune altars of Idols Apolog. and to write out the books of yâ— Law for them selues Ergo Ecclesiastical maters perteine to the iurisdiction of Kinges You see Confut. 303. then that the Princes are not Supreme but that betwene them and God the Prophete is the greater Officer For the Prophets coÌ„mauÌ„d the priÌ„ces obey The Prophets geaue charge the princes doe execute it The prophetes declare what an Idol is the Princes destroie it according to the prophetes instruction Moyses â— Ciuile Magistrate recieued from God Apolog. and delyuered to the people al the order for religion and sacrifices and gaue Aaron a sore rebuke for making the golden calfe Ergo ecclesiastical matters perteyne to the office of princes This example agreeth not Confut. 05. because Moyses was not a Ciuile magistrate only but also a priest And he was made also by God the supreme gouernour and captaine ouer al the number of the children of Israel were they temporal or Spiritual persons in figure of Christ. If ye can shew that our Sauiour left any such power vnto any king in the world and that his Apostles were not immediatly next vnto hiÌ„ the chiefe gouernors of his church then shal that temporal King haue the power whach ye labour to geaue him Iosue receyued commaundementes towchinge Religion and the seruice of God Apolog. Ergo Ecclesiasticall maters perteyne to theyr Iurisdiction He receyued commaundement Confut. 305. to meditate in the boke of the law which God had geauen by Moyses and to keepe it But this was so sar of from a Supremacy in maters Ecclesiasticall that it is expressly sayd in the boke of Numeri Cap. 17. that Eleazar the
besides the Canonical Scriptures nothing be red in the Church vnder the name of the holy Scriptures Therfore it forbiddeth not the reading of other thinges but in that sort as they should be commended and vttered for Scripture it selfe And strait wayes it foloweth in the same decree Let it be lauful also for the passioÌ„s and deaths of Martyrs to be read wheÌ„ their yerely feasts are kept Doe you see your lie now and wil ye lowly coÌ„fesse it Or are ye so froward that ye wil not see it or are ye so cunning that ye caÌ„ defend it Your coÌ„fession or defensioÌ„ we are content te heare but if you will be blinde lette others behold and consider that nothiÌ„g but Canonical Scripture and the deathes of Martyrs to be readen also in the Church can not both be true and stand togeather And beholde whiles I thought this obiection could not possibly be refelled it was for certainty reported vnto vs here by some that were present at M. Iewels sermoÌ„ at Poules Crosse the fiftenth of Iuly last that he complained that M. Doctor Harding wroÌ„gfully charged the authors of the Apologie with this place as being a manifeste abusing and mangling of the third CouÌ„cel of Carthage For sayd he we alleage not this out of the CouÌ„cel of Carthage but of the Councel of Hippo. Did ye so in deede Is not your Apologie therin against you Is not the CouÌ„cell of Carthage both named in the Text and noted in the margent thereof Your Latine is thus In Apol. Ecclesi Angl. Vetus Concilium Carthaginense iubet ne quid in Sacro coetulegatur praeter scripturas Canonicas aÌ„d in the margeÌ„t thus it is noted TertiuÌ„ Carth. ca. 47. And the English interpretation hath thus The old Councel at Carthage coÌ„maunded nothing to be readen in Christes coÌ„gration but the Canonical Scriptures and there lykewise in the margent ye put Concil Car. 3. cap. 47. How dare ye then so loudly to lie that ye alleaged the foresaied place out of the Councel of Hippo and not the Councell of Carthage It appereth well that Doctor Harding hath ye vpon the hippe when to saue your selues from the fall ye deny your owne words In his reply to D. Cole And wonder it is that M. Iewel would euer be the reporter of such an answer In his replie to D Harding .157 whereas himselfe hath vsed this very place of the CouÌ„cel of Carthage to like effect aÌ„d purpose as ye haue vsed it in your Apology Especially wheras there is no Councel of Hippo extant at al vnto which yet ye refer your selues CoÌ„sider therfore Indifferent reader of this place and suffer not thy selfe so to be abused that they shal make thee beleue that they alleaged not that Councell whiche thou maiest see with thy owne eyes to be named and quoted in theyr Apologie and that they folowed the Canons of the Councell of Hippo of whiche they can shewe no Canons at all that are extant In the Councell at Chalcedone Apolog. Ciuile Magistrate condemned for Heretiks by the sentence of his owne mouth the Bishoppes Dioscorus Iuuenal and Thalasius and gaue iudgement to put them from that promotion in the Church In what parte of that Councell Conf. 315. maie one finde this which you reporte In the thirde Action we doe reade that Paschasius with his two felowes the Legats of the Pope of Rome pronounced the sentence of condemnation against Dioscorus the forme whereof is fully there expressed How then Shall we thinke that one of the Popes Legates was a Ciuill Magistrate Or that the Ciuil Magistrate condemned Dioscorus ageine by the sentence of his own mouth when he was sufficiently iudged by the whole Councel of Bishopes Ye haue manie fetches yet you can not but be conuinced in this place of an impudent lye or extreme folie The most that ye might saie as farre as we can reache is that the Ciuile magistrate subscribed vnto the sentence of the Councell and by his voice also condemned Dioscorus for an heretike But this is not inoughe for you to saue your honesties For you must declare that the ciuil magistrat not only coÌ„deÌ„ned them by his testimonie or assent but also by his sentence and not such a sentence only as might concurre with the iudgmeÌ„tes of the Superiours lyke as euery bishoppe in a general Councel geueth sentence in causes Ecclesiasticall But it is included within that one senteÌ„ce which the chiefest in al the Councel do alow and geue but you must ê“ue that the ciuil mgistrat gaue the senteÌ„ce with his own mouth For so ye speake as though he had ben the the best man in the place and president of the Councel To this of Dioscorus that ye may aunswer the more fully I wil not troble yoâ— with Iuuenal and Thalassius whome ye haue also belyed in this mater Bishopes of an other sorte than Dioscorus was although you haue coÌ„deÌ„ned them together The Sixth Chapiter wherein is noted how the Apologie belieth and abvseth the Scriptures theÌ„selues It was saied indifferently to all the Apostles Apolog. Feed eye YOu meane Conf. 48. I am assured the one and tweÌ„ty of S. Iohn in which chapiter yet there is no meÌ„tion at al of the plural number with Feed ye but to S. Peter alone feede thou saieth Iesus my lambes feede thou my shepe Whether haue you a Ghospell not yet knowen to the world in which Christ saieth indifferently to al his Apostles feede ye Woe vnto you Scribes and Pharseis Apol. which haue takeÌ„ away yâ— keies of knowlege and haue shut vp the kingdome of heauen before men The Scripture saying Conf. 72. that one iote or title of the law shal not passe vntil all be fulfilled a changing of the numbre in any place of the Gospel must not be thought to be vnworth the noting Luâ—â— 11. Of the keie of knowlege Christ spake and not of keies in the plural number Paule saieth Apolo that the tyme should be when men should not awaie with holsome doctrine but be turned backe vnto â—ables and lyes and that wythin the very Church And that within the very Church Conf. 20â— Where finde ye these wordes in S. Paul That men should not away with holsome doctrine it is to be founde in the fourthe chap. of the seconde to Timothe And it is verified in all heretikes but that S. Paul â—hould referre those wordes to the very Church it selfe it is impudently attributed to the Apostle And to graunte vnto you as muche as might be for excuse of your wordes that in some sense it might be true that euen within the verie Churche men shoulde not away with holsome Doctrine that is that althoughe manie for theyr vnderstandinge dissented not from it yet in theyr lyuing they shoulde impugne it Yet to saye as you doe that S. Paule dothe expound his woordes of the verie Churche it is altogeather boldelie and falselie affirmed God Apolog. by
nor purgatories nor pardons An instance in anie one of these u sufficient to proue you a lyer And therefore to let passe Asia Syria Assyria and Armenia countries too far to goe vnto and see whether we say true or no In Venis at this day in the Greeke Church the priest receiueth alone at the altar which is by your interpretion to saie a priuate Masse and of this you mai be fully perswaded if because ye mistrust the Catholiks reporte which haue seen it you wil but aske of the Reuerent Father Shire or some of your owne Merchantes whiche haue trauailed thither or send some letter of yours by theyr frendeship to anie false ChristiaÌ„ and faithful brother ther to knowe whether you haue not spoken more than you are able to proue We turne yâ— scriptures into al toÌ„gues Apolog. they scante suffer them to be had abroad in anie tongue Haue ye turned them yet into welsh and Irishe Confut. but for lieing vpon yourselfe I leaue you to your selfe CoÌ„cerning the Catholikes if your saying be true who then maintaineth the Hebrue Readers of the old testament in Rome the expounding the same in latin in euerie Catholike Vniuersitie the open selling of Bibles Hebrue Greek and Latinâ— in al Printers shoppes the continual reading of Scriptures in Monasteryes not only in opeÌ„ Church and secrete Celle but eueÌ„ in the Refectories at diner and supper Who doe al this but Papistes Your lye therefore is verie notorious Peter verely whom the Pope hath oftence in hys mouth and more reuerently vseth to speake of Apolog. then he doth of Ihesu Christe dyd boldely stand against the holy Councell If ye loued Con. 274 either God or man so trulie and iustly as ye would be thought to doe it were impossible for you so suspitiousely to interprete the honour geauen to the Seruant to be a diminishing of the honor and reuerence due to his Master For the charitie of God the greater as it is in vs so it maketh vs to reioyse stil more and more the more that anie is praysed or remembred whom he fauoureth And to murmur grudge cast doune the heade or make a lippe at it when S. Peter or any other of the glorious and blessed in Heauen is dayly and reuerently spoken of what is it els but malitiously or blindelie to thinke that S. Peter hath alreadie honour inough or rather to much seruice done vnto him and that God him selfe is like to fare the worse if his Sainctes be continuallie magnified On the other side 1. Cor. â—â— concerning our neighbour Charitie being patient gentill not suspitious c. howe might a man full of spirite excepte it be of the hotte sprite of Hel iudge by a mans reuerent speaking of S. Peter that he would not speake so reuerentelie of Ihesus Christe Besides this ye whiche lyue in England and make suche reportes of the Pope whose abode is in Rome being neither of priuie chamber nor householde noâ— of the same Citie or Countrie with him howe can ye by anie likelyhode be other then false lyers in iudging so particularlie of his maâ—ers vntill ye bringe the Authonr of this your saying or light beleuers of tales when ye haue named the Authours Yet truly we do not despise councels Apolog. assemblies and conferences of Bishops and learned men neither haue we done that we haue done altogeather without Bishopes or without Councel The mater hath ben treated in open ParleameÌ„t with long consultation and before a notable Synode and Connocation Yeas Con. 275. altogether without Bishops and without a Councel For in that notable Parleament the first of our Soueraigne Lady that now is Quene in which that was don for you that was done ye could haue no Bishops in the plurall number to stand for you because ye had not so much as one in the Singular number Albeit afterward in dede one ye had and he being deceaued or ouercummed did beare with the procedinges more proprely then support them This is one Now as for the treating of the matter in open Parleament it was so open that your voices had no place in it This is an other Thirdly concerning the long consultation that was vsed the Parleament began after Christmas and without any greate arguing to or fro the maydenbill as it was called of the Princes Supremacie was readye to haue passed aboute the beginning of Lent Then stode one vp that spake against it with such libertie that he was examined vpon it and lost his owne libertie 30. dayes together and with such truth and grauitie that for so many daies after the matter also of the Supremacie was suppressed Yet about Easter for the worde head came in the word Gouernour And so was the Supremacye admitted when the Parleament so little thought of such a fetch that an earnest faâ—orer of the Gospel toke indignation at it and saied that if men were ashamed of the word it self head they should also refuse the Supremacie it selfe which was imported by it And cal you this a long consultation This is a third Last of all touching the notable Synod and coÌ„uocation it put vp to the ParleameÌ„t an expresse bil of informatioÌ„ against your procedinges So far of it was from helping you This is the fourth greate lye in this one little sentence of yours From which fowre if ye wil defende your selues by referring your meaning not to the first Parleament of the first yeare of Quene Elizabeth in which ye were Sirs out of office but vnto the other that folowed the Catholike Bishops now being safely kept in prison then as ye debate the poyse of your former 〈…〉 for al that ye doe augment 〈…〉 your foly For your mattâ—â—◠〈…〉 to passe for you in the first ParleameÌ„t in which none of you were pÌ„sent though the Parleament folowing had ben open the coÌ„sultation long the coÌ„uocation notable albeit this might be proued to be an open longe and notable lye yet note I praie you the folie and lie which in this sentence goe togeather For your maters being don to your hands in the first Parleament where no place was made for you it is a verie lye to saie We haue not done that we haue done altogeather without Bishoppes And the first Parleament seruing your purpose so fullie that ye needed not an other what wisedome was it to haue a longe consultation and notable Synode vppon that whiche was before concluded for you and by you was not to be remoued for all your notable conuocation Continuallie for the space of fyue hundred yeares Apolog. the Emperour alone appointed the Ecclesiastical assemblies Where beginne you to recken Con. 311. Three hundred yeares afâ—tr Christ there was no Emperour in the world openlie professing him selfe a Christian and yet Ecclesiasticall assemblies were apointed aÌ„d kepte in Hierusalem by the Apostles In Palestina when Victor was Pope At Rome by Fabian c. Then if ye will begyn at Constantin the first
and take the fyue hundre yeares folowing howe make you it true For the first Councel of Nice it self was called by Syluester the Pope Temporall men subscribe and geaue sentence Apolog. in generall Councels Subscribing we graunt Con. 318. geauing of sentence we vtterly denie and you can neuer saue it from a lye Excepte by such a figure as shal make two diuerse thinges in degree and perfection to be all one with you and that it is as lawful to geue sentence in a mater as to subscribe to it after it is geauen The Popes would nedes make all the realme of EnglaÌ„d tributary to them Apolo and tracted theÌ„ce yerely most vniust wroÌ„gful taxtes So deare cost vs yâ— frindeship of the Citie of Rome Was the Realme so vnable to resiste him that you may truely sâ—ie the popes would nedes haue it so Through your ouer much study on the boke of the Lord ye may be perdoned for not knowing the historie of our Realme which if you will take the leasure to consider will teache you that the taxes or Peterpence of which you speake or els ye must perdone me if I vnderstand you not were so frely geuen by Kinge Ihon to the Popes for euermore that excepte his conscience had moued him vnto it there was no force of armes nor will in the Pope to make him of necessitie to doe it And because you make it a faulte as it were general of all Popes that needes they will haue taxes of you remember Paulus the fourth his dealing with you at the comming of Quene Marie to her raigne at which tyme hauing Princes on his side and by his owne strength some what able to heâ—pe forward yet he neither required Peterpence a small matter in respect of our Realme or his charges vppon Christendome neither absolute restoring of religious houses to the former and laufull holders of them a great matter without all controuersie yet such as he might haue brought to passe if Popes were the men as you make theÌ„ to be Wherby it appeareth that although ye might freely make lyes vpon the Ambition and couetisâ— of Popes in olde time yet these Popes which of late haue in dede bene so much able and yet through charitie so litle willing to take of you do in all mens eyes and iudgments conuince you of lying and slaunderous tonges Men folowing God his bidding Apolog. of theyr owne free wil resorted vnto yâ— doctrine of Iesus Christ. As for example Con. 345 in our owne countrie In King Harry the viij dayes who so would not haue abandoned the Authoritie of the Bishop of Rome should be hanged drawen and quartered To haue but the name of a Pope in a matins boke was treason permitting men to praye to S. Gregory which was a moste holy Pope and punishing theÌ„ for hauing that name Pope staÌ„ding by him in their kaleÌ„der c. In king Edwarde his tyme the procedinges increasing it was punishable to heare Masse c. And at this present it is so odious and dangerous not to come vnto your Ghospel that your selues prouoking the Catholikes to answer you â–ª or alowing the bragging manlynes of such a challenger yet now when answers are prouided for you ye stoppe by all feare that ye can make first that none be brought in and afterwards that none be readeÌ„ vpoÌ„ paine of the coÌ„missioners dispeasure And were not the iudgement of our Princesse greater than to suffer suche an absurditie as that you shoulde prouoke and crake when none is willing to fight and when the enemie is comming forwarde then call vppon the temporall Arme to driue him backe that you might triumphe in your maner without the victory surely had not the goodnes of our Princesse misliked this cowardnes ye had by this tyme made it death to haue any booke of the Papistes making in Louane And call you this Men of theyr owne wil to resorte to your doctrine And for our parts truly we haue sought hereby neither glory Apolog. nor wealth norpleasure nor ease for ther is plentie of al these thinges with our aduersaries It is harde to truste you Con. 34â— especiallie whee as this nedelesse sayiÌ„g that you haue not sought for glory proueth that you are content to be thought to haue the contempte of glorie which is but a base and sory argument of humilitie As for your desire of wealth although Luther the maÌ„ reised of God had not for couetise preached against pardons and if Peter Martir chaynging his opinion with whiche he came to Oxforth and from his Lutheranisme turniÌ„g himself to Zuinglianisme for loue of so sweete a liuing did not make it probable as he sayed vnto Iulius his man after a greate feast made to him in Oxford O Iuli bonum est nos hîc esse O Iuly it is good being here And although your miserable misery and banishment in which you were at Geneua that in condition the popish Religion might be displaced you woulde be content to conforme your selues to the Princes Religion and orders which in the article of supremacie Caluin your master coulde not abide And although your selling of stone lead slat c. your woodsales your bying of Copyholds your begging of mony and wheat toward household your breeding of swyne with the ouer sight of the Superintendent himself in that kinde of cattell although I say all these matters might make it not vncredible that you had the desire of wealth in your pouerty which be so greedie thereof yet dayly stil in your plentie yet because in these foresayd poyntes the fault may be layed not vpon religion but on the persons professing it I shall therefore bid you consider one principall end and conclusion of your Gospell to see thereby whether ye seeke not for ease and pleasure or if your selues be better disposed whether the course of your Religion doth not drawe men to that affection For running out of Cloysters breaking the vowes of pouertie of obedience of chastitie no rising at midnight short prayer contempt of prescribed fastings yoking of Priestes and their women togeather c. and such an Apprehension of Christes merites by Faith as maketh the handes to let goe all meddling with good workes c. these being the effects of your religion and part of the greatest poyntes of your profession let it now be iudged whether these men saie true or no in glorying that they seke not ease and pleasure except you will say ye be not inclined after the wayes of your owne religion The 8. Chapiter conteining the Rhetoricall Slylie and Frumping lies We can not away in our Churches with the shewes Apolog. and sales and byeing and selling of Masses AS who shoulde saie Con. 111. we your Aduersaries doe abide it No verelie we no more alowe the sellinge of Masses than the Inceste of the renegate Friers and Sisters And yet there haue ben in the Catholike Church Religiouse personnes so fowlie disposed